An American Pro Footballer's Thoughts on Pro/Rel Coming to the US
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Source: theathletic.com/4684339/2023/...
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Timestamps:
0:00-0:13 - Intro
0:13-1:55 - What's Going on with Pro/Rel and the USL?
1:55-3:18 - How Would it Work and When Would it Happen?
3:18-4:43 - What Are My Thoughts on Pro/Rel to the USL?
4:43-6:01 - Do I Think the MLS Will Join the Pro/Rel System?
6:01-8:32 - The Downsides of Pro/Rel...
8:32-9:04 - Outro
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About Me
Name: Matt Sheldon
Age: 30
Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 170 lbs
Nationality: USA
Job: Professional Soccer Player
Current Team: Hartford Athletic
Current League: USL Championship (USA 2nd Tier)
Last Team: Charleston Battery
Previous Teams: FC Tulsa, Tulsa Roughnecks, Waterside Karori FC, Saint Louis FC, Orange County Blues, SG Kinzenbach
Position: RB/LB/RM
College: UC Davis (D1) - กีฬา
I think honestly the pro/rel system creates more hardcore fan bases. Football is about emotion, the highs and the lows. And so something as tragic as relegation will break fans hearts, but also makes them more loyal to the clubs. I’ve seen it in Croatia, even teams in the lowest leagues have hardcore loyal support. I’ve seen it in Brazil, even teams playing only state level competition have thousands of loyal fans and that leads to a legacy and history that is intangible. That’s something money and stability really cannot buy.
Well said.
This is true in countries that are not the USA. Most likely teams that get relegated will go out of business in a few years in the USA.
@@edwardeduardo8561yes but I believe that in order to create the hardcore fan base we need to make this change. With diehard support built through those moments, clubs will slowly become more stable
@@edwardeduardo8561
"This is true in countries that are not the USA. Most likely teams that get relegated will go out of business in a few years in the USA."
Based on what evidence/reasoning?
@FootballBamberger Well, first you got the NASL. Second you got the Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion in the MLS. Then, you got the countless number of teams that have folded in USL, NPSL and NASL part 2. It is very tough to keep leagues running in this country, especially if they are not the highest level or a feeder league affiliate.
Look at how the most popular sport in the US can't even support a second professional league. The XFL and USFL teams only manage a few hundred fans a game. The XFL already went out of business and will probably happen again with such low interest.
This needs to happen. US is incredibly far behind of other countries in this aspect. However, it is an easy fix. MLS, USL, USL 1, and USL 2 should all have a promotion and relegation style to them (which mirrors a lot of European leagues). Although this may not happen straight away, having promotion/relegation between a few USL leagues is a step in the right direction
yes it will make all the leagues better and more competitive with the bad teams moving down and the better teams moving up and making the league better with teams coming and going
Exclude USL 2 cos they have over 50 teams & that won't work out
was looking at how it can be done, and im on the same page as you but, i think making the lower divisions league 1 and 2 regional leagues, with the mls and championship East and West Confrences. So it should look something like.
MLS- East and West.
Championship- East and West.
League 1- East/North, East/South, West/North, West/South.
League 2- X8 Regional Confrences that fit the format.
@@augustonembungu6721 they can break the league up, maybe by doing an East and West conference (like the do in England with National League North and National League South). Same level just 2 different leagues
@@johnweeden1954 Exactly! This could mirror the English football pyramid with their structure surrounding regional leagues. Having leagues on the same level, but in 2 different divisions. For example, USL 2 has so many teams, they could split up the leagues so they do an East and West Conference (just like in England with the National League North and National League South). Same division, but 2 separate leagues.
Would be really cool if USL found a way to fight to be accepted into some concacaf tournaments
The only way so far is US Open Cup.
Why USL agreed to be a lower level league
@@riccorich To that I have no clue.
@@leonardosolano8621 well then they do not need to play in concacaf competitions.. I mean if there is a way where a USL or lower league team gets to then maybe interest develops, but there isnt
One more thought: If this does go through, then think of how in 5-10 years' time, the relevance of the U.S. Open Cup will be boosted thanks to a league willing to open the system.
MLS clubs/teams (from what I've heard) are pushing to get out of it altogether. Maybe due to scheduling or the need not to be made to look like fools by being defeated by a USL or lower league club. As many have said, MLS is about the money where USL(and other leagues) are about the passion, growth, and development of the game in America.
If the US wants any chance of winning world cups or anything like that this is mandatory
Also having played in Pro/rel myself let me talk about what Matt didn't shed light on.
With a proper pro/rel system every player can find their level. If anyone is dominating the 7th division for example, 5th and 6th div teams pay attention.
Furthermore on that, when a team promotes usually 60-70% of the squad stays the same. So every year that many players move up to a new league. If you look in our closed system there are very few players making the move from NISA to USL, or USL to MLS. The scouting is infinitely less because winning a few more games isn't that important, and the teams don't move either.
The league system becomes a meritocracy and simplified. Any 4th division team that plays so well over a period of time will promote. Nowadays in the US you have all of these leagues and no one can really tell exactly who is better (NPSL v UPSL v EPSL v USL 2 etc.)
More so, players get paid to play at all levels. This is good because more players continue to play at a serious level. Nowadays in the US plenty of guys quit because they play for free in NPSL or USL 2 in most teams. Why would they when they can work a shift and make money. Leading to a lot of good solid players that quit lowering the overall player pool in the US.
More so, when there is an open system you can find teams anywhere. Currently if you live in NY for example there is no USL champ or 1 team. And only one NISA team. If I have to move to Rochester or something to play for $100 a week what is the likelihood someone does that. But if you have enough teams in your area you can continue to play again improving the over all player pool which makes every level top to bottom more competitive.
Furthermore, the total number of professional and semi professional players will probably increase 100x based on numbers compared to European countries I've calculated. The more players with professional experience increases the overall knowledge base in the sport of our generation. Meaning you have 100x more people in the future with potential to be good coaches, directors, scouts, etc. This only can help grow the game as we have so many piss poor coaches in America.
Furthermore, if anyone who wants can watch local soccer it will only help overall soccer culture grow. If you want to watch your ethnic group play, your local town, your block in the city, whatever you identify with. The teams all have the same chance. They just have to win games and on any given day anything can happen.
Furthermore, we won't have players doing crazy things like moving to Mongolia, Romania, Sweden, Bolivia, Thailand, Costa Rica, Hong Kong, etc just for the chance to play football in a better environment. If players turn down good jobs to fly across the world to play lower leagues in Sweden, or 1st division in Thailand or whatever clearly what we have isn't working.
Furthermore, youth development can skyrocket. The 1st league doesn't develop all the players in the region. These clubs usually act as the end of the funnel. All of the clubs in all of the divisions are developing players in hopes to sell them on, promote to their A team, or receive solidarity payments. The kids become valuable to the clubs if they improve. As opposed to a vehicle to get the parents money. Development becomes the goal not just making the parents pay $3k a year.
Furthermore, more teams means more coaches and more chances and opinions. Currently if you have one pro team in the area and the coach says no the kid, there is no logical next step. In Germany if Bayern say no to you, there are hundreds of other teams in Munich at all levels. So one no doesn't define you, as is always seen in Europe. Plenty of players get rejected by the 1st div clubs. No YNT caps, but end up being key players in the senior NT. Because progress isn't linear, and you can't let one person be able to completely derail a players career because there is only one pro team within 2-3 hours of them.
Do I need to continue....
What?! None of the players that will be representing the US in a World Cup-winning team will be playing in the USL!
The New Zealand international rugby team (the All Blacks) is the most successful international rugby team and is composed of players who play for clubs that compete in competitions without promotion and relegation.
@@Monaleenian "a rising tide raises all boats"
You need a good system top to bottom to be a good footballing nation that's the point. In Spain or England for example the 4/5th division teams are at a really high level
I have a question what benefit will usa have when they win World Cup ?
One thing I’m surprised you didn’t mention is the distances between teams and the financial burden that could cause. I’m a massive pro/rel advocate, but we would need more teams in between and make it so it’s easier/less costly for teams to travel. Also I’d like for them to open up the bottom tier to more teams. I think the only way this works is if we divide the country regionally and then keep slicing so the lower teams can still compete without the financial burden of traveling long distances/hotel costs, etc.
I just posted a question about clubs in the NPSL having a path to a USL 1,2, or Championship to seek after.
Also, I know friends of mine have talked about this over beer at a bar and one of the ideas about travel concerns is to keep the East/West tables seperated with the winner of the regional leagues go head to head at a neutral venue to determine the overall USL champion.
What do you think?
Yes I think looking at how to German tiers are would work well, the 4th tier there is a split into multiple divisions. America is too big for small pro teams to travel across the country
@@colehollander5823 I have a feeling you'd have to do it at a much higher tier in the US. Maybe even the second tier.
It's not just the size of the country that adds a challenge: it's the fact that soccer teams aren't just competing with soccer teams here.
More than anywhere else in the world, teams in America have to compete with other sports (baseball, football, basketball, hockey, tennis, golf, racing, lacrosse, etc.), and not just at the professional level. Most nations usually just have a couple other popular sports to contend with.
@@ExileOnDaytonStreet yea I agree, I live in Wisconsin and we only have one pro team and it’s in USL league 1. Even in 4th tier there’s only about 5 teams. There definitely needs to be more teams first before we could even split it up and be viable.
@@eddyhooper5052 Excellent idea! Very smart idea. Or how about whoever wins west and east they both get promoted while the 2 worst teams from the MLS will get relegated.
Really good job on this video. Made good points for both sides. Exciting times for soccer in America!
There's a lot of talk that relegation will cause instability, and yet we've seen multiple USL teams (FC Tuscon, Charlotte Independence, Richmond Kickers) *intentionally* self-relegate because it improves their finances. There's also a lot of talk that relegation will cause fans to leave. I think people need to realize that as it stands right now, a closed minor league is just permanent relegation. So the crowds teams are getting right now *are* relegation crowds, and those crowds will only get bigger when there's more at stake.
I was a supporter of the Dayton Dynamo FC in the NPSL system. Financial issues forced the sale of the club,but I also suspect (speculation mine) that a certain club didn't want to lose fans to a club in their own backyard.
Had there been an open system in place and a path forward for these clubs to survive on all fronts, clubs like ours could've looked forward to a path to cheer for in the future.
It saddens me to think of all the clubs who potentially be with us had there been an open system in place in America.
@@eddyhooper5052 I think territory rights are terrible in USSF and should be removed immediately. I'm sorry your team was sold
That's actually a very good point I never realized
No they will not if there is a complete lack of TV & media coverage. implement relegation now, watch teams move lower to keep their finances sound and watch the sport you love starve for a lack of media coverage. I live in a USL-Champion area (metro Detroit) and the local media NEVER cover the team even when it wins. If I want to find out about them I have to make considerable efforts. the local media have spent more time talking about college ice hockey in the middle of summer that any level of soccer.
Also I feel the quality of football will become a lot better as well since the steaks are so high
Put it this way, one of the requirements for a team to get promoted to MLS should be that they have to have a soccer specific stadium that seats at leat 15,000.
MLS would love that, but it's unrealistic. Look at Bournemouth in the Prem, they're smaller than some USL grounds.
@@bryantrudy568 the requirement is 5k for the Premier League. Same for the EFL
Love the idea and love the channel, watched alot of USL this year for the first time
Sounds fantastic, but challenging for US soccer. Thank u again for such an insightful analysis video ❤
it is challenging for anybody that have a big country. Here in Brazil the top three divisions are round robin, 20 clubs each.
The 4th division, much due to the amount of teams and travel costs, is divided in many regional groups. Like: clubs from 2, 3 states in each group.
There are some things that can be done by the league to reduce the troubles
Matt’s the Goat!!!
What you find with pro/ rel is that sometimes the relegation battle is more interesting than than watching the teams at the top. It's kind of compulsive viewing to see clubs and their fans on the final day of the season walking towards the gallows. It's one of the most nerve racking experiences knowing if your team win they stay up where as if they lose they are relegated into the minor league. At the end you see grown spectators crying with sadness or joy in the crowd. Also you get incredible stories where little town clubs might be competing against big clubs in with rich histories in the MLS or a Goliath of a club is forced to play the minnows in the little league. You find that discrepancies are normally temporary, so little are quickly relegated back to the little league and big clubs are quickly promoted back to the elite league.
It’s going to have a profound effect on youth soccer. Academy’s popping up all over the place will finally unlock the countries potential. Not to mention more people following local teams will increase interest.
Yeah, right now the professional teams seem to have very little input on developing the sport domestically. “Europe”-ifying things might encourage teams to develop their own players that can help them win, and potentially be transfer bait in the future.
@@hornetguy9063 the more kids who play for an academy the more parents will see it as a viable sporting endeavor. It’s really a generational investment. Soccer parents have their kids play soccer. Baseball dads what their boy playing baseball. Breaking into the first generations of soccer player will require inspirational drive from the player themselves. Which leads to having their kids play soccer. With an academy and local team young first generation players will drive more for the sport. As there is more to gain.
@@hornetguy9063 a USL1 club could get a wonderkid in their academy. An MLS or European club swoops in and buys them for potentially a 7 or 8 figure sum, boosting the finances of said club temporarily, enabling them to invest more in their squad and/or community engagement therefore getting more bums on seats leading to increased revenue over the long-term..
Thank you, thank you for spreading the gospel of Promotion-Relegation to the US soccer fans. As a South American, I can attest to, like you explained from your own experience, the amazing roller coaster of emotions that fans can feel when your team is involved in a fight to stay up or to move up. Unfortunately in this country, as you also pointed out, the cons, starting with the almighty dollar, are many, but I hope that some day will see this structure in the US! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
We need this
The only way I see MLS adopting Pro/Rel would be internally only with it’s own teams.
And even then, they'll eventually conclude it's just more practical to allow everyone to remain in the top league and just play to earn playoff spots...
I think tho that if it is implemented they should divide it into regions west coast midwest east coast and south creating different leagues that way the overall travel distance is limited. And the top teams from each will play in a sort of champions league the following season. But also would give smaller towns with populations of 30-100k people opportunity to have there own teams as well not just the big cities. This would spread the populatiry of the sport massively and for many individuals would provide a way to go pro.
I've seen that the beautiful game is the most played sport until 16 years of age. The challenge is for people above 16 to remain in the game some way, even if just as a fan. This idea is good for the lower leagues, starting from the third level.
We have this sort of system in England - the top 5 tiers (prem, championship, league 1, league 2, and national league) are all over the country, and then tiers below that get more and more local. The US is bigger and so maybe only the 2/3 top tiers should be national
Yes, it's necessary in order to make the league more competitive
One of the biggest motivators of gaining promotion or avoiding relegation is player wages. In England we have relegation clauses in player contracts because the financial loss made from missing out on TV deals means the players will no longer be on the lucrative wages they were on before. And vice versa, promotion usually comes with bonuses. If this all does come to fruition, it gives incentive for players to fight harder and generally improve their performance until promotion/relegation status is confirmed.
Thanks for the balanced and thoughtful pros and cons regarding the USL Open Systems. Your points are spot on regarding clubs who are younger and don't have the funds to improve their facilities to be able to bear a Relegation.
My other thought is if USL votes to make this happen, then what will fourth leagues like NPSL and others figure in with where the USL is going?
I could see the NPSL, which has hundreds of small pro/am clubs nationwide, figue in all this planning? Could they someday be like the lower leagues in Britan that are even at the base of English football with a path up if they find 3-6 clubs worthy to find themselves promoted to USL?
I agree either way all the reasons for wanting this from a fan’s perspective, but the only way it will work on a mass scale is if MLS buys USL and makes current MLS into “MLS Premiere”, USL championship into “MLS Championship”, USL 1 into “MLS League One”, etc.
No owner is buying into a system where they could instantly lose a half a BILLION dollars by being “relegated”. I think changing the names of the leagues like that would soften the blow a lot and make owners slightly less worried about it.
But ultimately, I don’t think pro-rel will ever happen in America, we’re not used to the concept, so it just means there’s too much money to lose.
I see this as a positive.
Thumbs up!
Can you make a video that talks more about the process of buying/creating an expansion team? Northwest Arkansas just announced that we are getting a new USL Championship team. I’m really excited about having pro soccer in my area, but would like to know about what/how it is happening. Thanks!
As a USL 1 fan and a MLS fan I am so hyped for this I can't wait for my club Madison forward to be in MLS oh the dream
So glad you see the positives. As an Englishman, my team (Bourenouth) have been bouncing around divisions for a long time. I never understood how you guys had any jeapordy with the existing stagnant situation. I really hope you get that extra drama, and your fans appreciate it and it forces the top division to accept the extra challenge from that beneath them. Though I see NHL, NBA, and NFL I see what an alien concept that is
The risk of someone over investing to get promoted is real but that's why salary caps and FFP rules exist, and weirdly your nation is so much more used to that than Europe ever was so you should have a headstart, best of luck, hope it happens
The problem here is soccer doesn't exist in a vacuum... most US fans are actually multi-sport fans, with a greater emphasis on the much more popular sports leagues such as the NFL and NBA.
This is why economic factors force leagues to be more "centralized" here - teams banding together to share expenses and revenues, because that's pretty much the *only* way investing in any American sports league will be seen as worthwhile.
Instead of the league itself being separate from individual, autonomous, self-sustaining "clubs" (as it is in Europe) which must "play their way" into the top league, in the US, the league *is* a single entity which *owns* all the teams that *pay* to "join" the league.
In other words, the teams themselves can *not* even legally exist without being fully part of the top league... and there is no "top league" without these teams (called paid "franchises").
In Europe, the difference between "major" or "top" league and any level below it is determined by club performance/records among those other clubs... in the US, the difference between "major" and "minor" league is the level of financial *wealth* one league has over the other.
Logic tells you that if you compare league A's financial status being *far* more powerful than league B's financial status, then league A will obviously be able to draw and sustain top quality talent and league B will not be able to... so there is no need to "play" these teams against each other because on paper, it's clear which has the money necessary to sustain a top-league roster and which does not - end of story.
When fans pay to watch top league play, they expect to *always* get top league quality regardless of the record the teams end up with year after year... teams can always change out players and coaches not worthy of being in the top league, but the fans deserve top league quality because that's what they specifically came to see week after week.
This is why the American playoff system to determine the league champion is used... it essentially "replaces" pro/rel because it weeds out the better teams from the rest and rewards such teams with a legitimate chance at the title, while sending the rest home to wait again until next season.
The salary cap is used for a few important reasons... first is to avoid a "wealthy" team attempting to buy the league title every year by outspending teams which are not on the same financial level.
Why is this important?
Because American sports fans *hate* sports leagues where it's pretty much already a conclusion that one or two teams will dominate the season based on financial factors... there is no point in even following a season then, there is no suspense, you can guess the end result.
The salary cap ensures *every* team in the league is more or less on "equal" financial footing in putting together teams... also keep in mind the previous top US soccer league (the old NASL from the 70's) eventually ran into financial ruin after about 15 years of operation *precisely* because there was no salary cap (wealthier teams outspent "poorer" teams on talent by wide margins and fans stopped coming to watch these teams because the quality of play had become *so* bad.
@@davepazz580 wow, there's a lot there, and not a lot I disagree with. Though I don't see pro/rel as being diametrically opposite to those points. At the same point I also see how franchises (dirty weird in Europe) have built local game quality by building feeder clubs, also the fact that bottom team gets first bite at draw for new players
All that said, my team were constantly a 3rd tier team yet have in recent years overperformed and been in the top league for a while
It feels great
All that said we're the only country that supports 100 professional teams, and plenty of players get paid to play way down the pyramid. I wasn't very good but even I used to get paid to play football, that's not sustainable really, but we just about manage it
Regionalisation of your leagues below the MLS would allow clubs to spend more on team and less on transport, and you still get your playoff fix with an end of season tournament between the region winners, just a thought. Not that I'm qualified to tell you guys how to run your leagues but that seems like it could be exciting
Thanks for covering the pros and cons. I want it as much as anyone else but everytime I try and be realistic about it especially when it comes to the infrastructure not really existing people don’t wanna hear it. It’s not the answer to the American soccer popularity and quality problem. Those problems exist because the leagues we have MLS and USL are just young. We expect the greatness that’s been built by leagues that are 100 years old or more from a system that is in its puberty if not it’s infancy.
Also I feel the quality of football will become a lot better as well since the stakes are so high
I'm glad to hear about the vote. That would be great! but as a US soccer fan, I do not even watch USL at any level. I would love to have more interest but I'm focused on MLS. Even watching US Open Cup isn't as thrilling as seeing the lower league clubs in FA Cup. I think USL is lacking in good exposure imo.
MLS has too many teams in my opinion today and as I understand it are expanding. I also don't know how you "fold" mlsNext into the pyramid but think it should be. Some of those teams have robust fan bases and "identities" but still others are just "JV" squads and don't even have proper names, just So-and-So 2. I love that USL sides have their own unique identities that they bring. MLS is much too "corporate" and cookie-cutter to really interest me beyond my local side. MLS aren't true clubs but are franchises. That is a fundamental difference that seems at odds with getting them into a PRO/REL scenario. It wouldn't bother me a bit if USL surpassed MLS as top of the pyramid in the US.
its the system footbol has that Americans arent acustom to
MLS will expand and split into 2 tables and use the Leagues Cup and MLS Cup as opportunities for it to turn over before they'd ever adopt pro/rel.
USL will never pass MLS simply because MLS has all the advantages. Outside of a few clubs (Loudoun United, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Miami FC, Las Vegas Lights FC, Phoenix Rising FC, maybe Oakland Roots FC), no one is in particularly big markets.
The English league system has 92 teams . It has had pro/rel for more than a 100 years . The ( F) ootball (A) ssociation cup is the worlds oldest knockout football competition , it started in 1874. 764 teams took part in it last year.
The biggest problem I would have with pro/rel and as you stated is the stadium issues with many of them not having their own stadiums and even playing in minor league baseball stadiums. For pro/rel to work that to me is one of the most important aspects that needs to be dealt with. That being said, if mls were to adopt into pro/rel in a way that the epl/efl works, or even have mls at least buy majority share of usl (which in my mind I thought they have pre covid but that clearly isn't the case) you could easily see a bunch of new potential owners like we have seen with Wrexham that have the money to build the necessary stadiums and what not, though that could easily not happen as well.
You do make a very good point here.
But I think going a long way to help would be if local news / sports news actually reported on local results of the clubs.
Not so much puff pieces that do nothing / go nowhere, but thick history heavy pieces. Raise their profiles. Start to build / increase the local fan base.
Over time the increase of butts on seats should slowly but surely start to pay off for the club's finances. Which will help improve stadium quality, etc.
It would be great to see the US become a genuine top ten nation.
Pre convid
Promotion and relegation are absolutely necessary in the USL. Thank you, Matt, for an excellent presentation!!!
I think its a great thing but would love for it to be implemented in the USL2 as well because it gives college players to make an impact early on and maybe even propel to a higher level earlier!
The level in USL 2 overall is really poor. Far behind other top divisions.
The problem with that is that it could conflict with NCAA rules about college athletes. USL2 can have college athletes since it's technically not a semi-pro league .
As someone from uk this would make me interested in the u.s leagues. At the moment it doesn’t interest me, I do watch some now and again but it would definitely bring a more intensity and focus to the game.
The usl has a good opportunity here to bring in the money and followers. The teams might have to join together and change their names to accommodate two clubs
I was going to comment something similar.
At the moment there's too many meaningless games in MLS.
I focking love it
I've mentioned plenty of positives but think it's important to mention the downsides of pro/rel too. 1: It's creates a massive financial risk to owners, would imagine owners would prefer to limit the risk 2: The jeopardy is increased to a very serious level, where the result becomes more important than the entertainment, so fans become much more passionate but there's then the risk of too much passion where the result effects lifes, so it could bring in nastiness, hostility and maybe fighting/ hooliganism amongst fans and 3: The style will likely decrease, let me explain, at the moment with no jeopardy the focus is on attacking and entertainment, however with pro/rel some coaches will be so obsessed with winning they might try negative tactics that rely on super strong defences so the team wins 1-0 every week. In Europe most fans accept low entertainment if their teams win but not sure if US fans will accept that mentality where teams are successful playing an anti- football style.
To your 3rd point, Englands premier league remains higher in views and the cost of broadcasting deals in the United States.
As much fun as it is to make fun of ourselves with the "Americans have no attention span", the only people that complain about the lack of goals are people whove never given the sport a chance.
Id also point out that high scoring games still occur in pro/rel systems, and the skill of both tactics and players has remained SIGNIFICANTLY higher in every other league.
Part of the problem is no TV coverage to watch the USL games
Miami FC owner has been advocating for pro/rel for quite some time. Should be interesting.
Japan has been doing this structure of Pro-Rel and their league is the same age as the MLS. It also reflects their quality of talent of homegrown players being scouted from European clubs.
Though soccer in Japan suffers from much less competition of rival sports leagues as is the case in the US...
think this would make me watch usl more
In my opinion, one of the things that is keeping MLS from pushing into the Top 5 Leagues list is simply Promotion and Relegation between the divisions.
😂😂😂😂😂Top five e American delusion at its finest 😂
@@Stephen-lx9nmbritish here and I think it’s possible, I mean it’s the US, they have fantastic athletes and the country itself is as well known as a country can get. If they sorted out their leagues and actually really invested into football and cared about it then why not? It will take time of course but 5th spot is definitely manageable when your competing with the likes of the french league & the eredivisie
I would totally buy season tickets for my rva kickers.
Overwhelmingly positive thing. Wonder why it took so long.
Because the sports culture here is radically different than in Europe...
It simply needs to happen.
I was playing in the USL when the USLPA conversations got started. Was happy to see that happen and glad to see the USL (and the rest of us soccer) continuing to grow 🇺🇸🤘🏽
I would love to see pro/rel in usl 1. I personally support Greenville Triumph who have been top 3 every single season and would love to seem them promoted to a more competitive league.
Would be a nice start, after that drop draft and make it more European style of Academies ect.
Please make a video about stretch after traning
Please, tell Austrália to do the promo/rel as welll!!! Please!!!
Can I get some advice? I am 15 years old and this season I've been playing really well so my team's U18 team asked me to play for them and I do. Thing is, I also still play for the U15/16 team. The U18 games are on Monday, the U16 games are on Tuesday, what can I do to quickly recover after the U18 game so I can be ready for the U16 game the day after?
Edit: I swear they are trying to tire me out lol, I have 6 games in 8 days, one game today, one tomorrow, 2 games on Saturday, one for my u16 team at 12-1:30pm and one for my u18 team at 3-4:30, one game Monday, and another Tuesdays
Take a cold shower stretch eat well all that stuff
Play for the team where you think you'll receive more mins. The more people see you in action the more opportunities you'll get. If you feel like you are a top 3 in your humble opinion, go to a higher tier.
@@Trancymind both teams I play full 90 mins, I will go to a tryout in September for 2 different academies and try to climb my way up the ranks
@@maz1071I'm curious do you have a name? What is your ethnic background?
@Trancymind lol the internet is weird, so idk about giving my full name, but I'm half Iraqi and half Yemeni.
The vote was supposed to happen this past week. Any idea what was decided or not?
Could start simple one up, one down. Might need some sort of parachute payment to relegated teams to offset some of the financial costs of relegation.
What about USL League 2? Why wouldn't they be included in the Pro/Rel?
It will be generate more excitement and revenue for the leagues but the key will be how the money is shared out, nobody wants to take home less revenue by dropping down but if the TV rights are shared between all teams in all leagues equally then it should work.
Please do an update video after the voting has been made!
Wow, glad to hear that USL is considering it and Become Elite is for it. It would be a game changer for US soccer in so many ways. I see it could threatened MLS status. And basically democratizes soccer in USA, making it sport merit.
It will never threaten MLS's status...
This is THE BEST decision the US will EVER make
No, the *best* decision the US ever made was to create a single entity league where new franchises had to pay fees to join and every team shares revenues...
As an Italian, I'm happy for this , USL can become more interesting than MLS
Promotion feels amazing, it feels like winning a major competition. Relegation is horrendous.
I've experienced both a number of times following my club in England. I think the benefits will outweigh the costs for your average US footy fan.
wouldn't the MLS/US Soccer Federation have to give a significant amount of money to any team that's promoted to their division, allowing them to create the correct infrastructure/facilities to be an MLS club? that's pretty standard across the world when someone moves up a division
In the Premier League most clubs have crap facilities
This is one of the things that completely baffles me about sport in the US, the lack of promotion/relegation, as there's nothing like a good relegation battle or promotion push at the end of a season... so I hope they do bring this in.
That's instead replaced by the playoff push at the end of a season... who will qualify and who won't.
Relegation forces a very unnatural spotlight on who is doing *worst* rather than the more natural, who is doing *best* in a league.. the playoff system pretty much makes pro/rel obsolete.
@@davepazz580 that may be so, but have you ever seen a team survive, on the last game of the season, by the skin of their teeth?
Make an analysis of Xabi Alonso(CDM), i know that you have made one for Busquets.
Xabi Alonso was known for his long range passing and great positioning. I do personally think Busquets is the best CDM of all time, but Xabi is personally my favorite CDM.
Xavi is the best Spanish player of all time. Iniesta is 2nd best spanish midfielder. Villa best Striker while Torres 2nd best striker. Casillas best goalkeeper, Puyol best defender.
Its great for the USL, it should develop a league that has done a lot over the years to develop itself. Its still quite a ways off for mls however. Franchise fees for mls clubs means no owner wants to take the chance of dropping down and losing revenue. Wouldn't work in a single entity ownership structure.
please lord baby jesus help this happen in the USA. we need pro/rel in order to stay competitive! raising the stakes will raise the level of play!
Just look at Wrexham FC. Every headline or article written about them had something to do with a race to promotion.
I mean, they have other reasons why people are focusing on them.
During interviews the 2 US owners of the Welsh club Wrexham have said many times how they both, love and hate the pro/ rel system. They say they now understand why football fans can be so passionate because the stakes are so high. They say the literally have sleepless night worrying about their team. It's no longer a form of entertainment or sport, it becomes for some almost a matter of life or death. It also increases the drama of extreme glory and failure to more teams because now it's no longer just about the glory of winning a cup but also the glory of promotion to a higher league.
And it's been put on the back burner. Not surprised since the costs to improve stadiums, practice facilities and other items are probably too much for the majority of current owners.
In regard to the financial aspects of all this, I would imagine that so-called 'parachute payments' could be made to relegated clubs in order to soften the financial blow that comes with being relegated. This is what happens in England.
It used to be a norm here in 🇧🇷 too, but our clubs are so mismanaged that the holders of TV rights decided to stop giving the payments
Promotion and Relegation DEFINITELY needs to happen in the USA 🇺🇸, it’ll make it more competitive and if it works it will be the making of football in the USA 🇺🇸. Please make it happen!
The novelty would wear off pretty quickly... then owners would come to the realization that such a plan is absolutely ludicrous to implement here.
It only makes sense of USL can pair it with a development system that isn't pay for play or at least better than the current model.
Another problem with pro/re; in the US would be the same few teams coming up. In the UK, there's a thing called parachute payments, and its why clubs such as Fulham can afford to get relegated, then promoted.
Parachute payments need ending IMO. They reward failure and poor planning. And as you say, lead to a similar few clubs yo-yoing. Also really skews the financial playing field. A well run club coming up from 3rd to 2nd is at a huge disadvantage compared to a basket case club relegated out of the Prem.
The MLS wouldbt dare do this. Shoutout to the usl doing this
are there any updates? the vote was supposed to happen in early august and nothing
it has been postponed
In my opinion pro/rel would bring in higher investments both in lower and the upper league because there’s way more to earn from it.
even some people in favor of pro/rel in the USA still don't get what is pro/rel about. What USL should be aiming to is INCLUSION. Make it very easy and affordable to join them. Once there are enough teams , the necessity for pro/rel will be evident.
Can't for our soccer to be interesting. Last time I went to a game was 2010 Sounders vs Union, even stopped watching matches online since 2011, but I'm definitely excited to start again if it's not a fake competition anymore
It never was a "fake" competition in the first place...
In the USA money is more important than the sport. Unfortunately the sport will never grow to its full potential unless a pro/rel system is implemented. The fear of losing the category should be always there especially for teams that are always at the bottom of the table without any repercussions. Im looking at you Houston.
That is a good thing. It allowed the New England Revolution to go from bottom to the top in 1 season, that is GOOD for competitiveness. Relegation makes teams have to start over and they can never properly build. 8:58
Listen to this commentary, money ,money ,couldn't care less about the sport😂
Promo releg is a tough sell in a franchise based system…. You will have teams promoted who have never paid a franchise fee in MLS, different union agreements between leagues!….IMO, it is way too soon to do this!
I think from a branding perspective, the new league needs fo be the higher league. If the new league ("USL Premier"?) kicks off in 2024, teams that make the USL Championship Playoffs in 2023 would get promoted to the new league.
Please senior, teach us how to apply football scholarships college in US as a Footballer
I love pro/rel. Creates passionate local fans, increases the number of players professionally and also increases the quality of the players. Players get more game time and will find their level. It's a proven concept across the world. You see a similar problem with the NFL, especially with QBs. Not enough teams to give their players game time, so when the starter goes down with injury, the whole team suffers with an inexperienced QB thrown into the fire. Obviously a different sport, but highlights the same problem. The quality of the MLS and the USMNT player pool would improve with pro/rel.
Pro/rel only works when the entire nation is totally crazy for that one, single sport (i.e. faces no serious competition for popularity from any rival sport)... and when every team is its own independent, self-sustaining entity.
The US has neither of the above conditions...
Relegation system would be much refreshing to Futbol in the USA 🇺🇸
So you said that they want to add a middle tier in between the championship and league one. Why not just have league one be the middle tier, expand it to 24 teams just like the championship, and then have league two as the bottom?
Have three designated slots for pro/rel teams in the MLS . True MLS teams not part of pro/rel. Three teams that get potentially swapped out each year. The right to stay up could be based on maybe finishing mid-table or above. So some years there could be fewer than three teams relegated, or even none at all if they're all doing well in MLS. The other tiers would do pro/rel as normal. Really good or successful teams could buy into being an MLS franchise as normal.
I would just love to see my Chattanooga FC and their quality play be involved, they deserve so much more than NISA but unfortunately Redwolves are in the USL
I would assume richer owners at USL1 would like the idea, while USL Championship owners would not. There may be owners who have enough money that they don't care. Others may love the excitement and requirement to fight every game the Pro/Rel brings. But in America, $$$ talks. Those in the top stand to lose too much to go for it. I don't think it will pass this time around. It's a great conversation to get things started, but you almost have to have all the organizations at the table and create a singular entity with a defined pyramid before this is going to really go anywhere.
Unfortunately, you're right about the $ part and how that runs sports in the US, but Pro/Rel wouldjust be so good for soccer in the US and I hope that the owners pass the vote
USL Championship owners would love to be a Division 1 sanctioned league, what are you talking about?
@CaptainXD USL Championship wouldn't be competing against MLS. They'd be the top with a new division between them and USL 1. And unless tv and media rights changed, Championship would still be 2nd tier.
@@pithed2 I'm not trying to imply they'd be playing against MLS. But The Athletic article interviews state pretty clearly that the goal here is for USL to appeal the USSF's league standards to be jointly sanctioned as another Division I league.
If the NFL is any measure, the only way it became what it is today is through competition. The AFL grew until it was large enough to pose a challenge to the NFL. Then the NFL bought out the AFL and absorbed those teams. Negotiation through strength is how deals get done. Until USL can threaten MLS, they have no leverage and USSF will do nothing to rationalize the leagues.
I will definitely support the USL if they go this route. Following that point, I hope USL can compete with and eventually overtake MLS; of course, if this causes MLS to eventually get soccer people to run it in cooperation with USL, I would likely support that as well. What's more, I'd prefer to support a true local team, which for me would represent the San Gabriel Valley in some meaningful capacity.
Personally I think what the US needs is promotion and relegation, but also regional pyramids, perhaps state pyramids, with MLS being like a Champions League. I don't know if that would work in the US, but that's the system that exists in most successful footballing countries. It also boosts interest and participation at lower levels. There are 24 tiers in England for example, most of which are split into regions and are non-professional or semi-professional.
What are your thoughts on USL league two?
It is difficult to grow the sport outside of Europe because many see our continent as the pinnacle, it's every players dream to lift the UEFA Champions League which is essentially the World Cup of club football. Even I'd like to think that going forward the sport will become a truly global sport or atleast we bring North America and Asia upto the standards of Europe, South America and Africa where football really seems to have taken hold. Currently with the closed loop system you have it makes it kind of redundant for any grass roots club to spring up and seriously start fostering talent, and you're going to need these clubs to increase the pools of talent. I'm from a small town in England there are 6 Premier League players that I know about who have come from my town, their talent was fostered and they were picked up at early teenage age by bigger clubs. You need this for the sport to grow, both locally and on the international stage as others have said.
I'm willing to bet that USL will name the new league USL2. And from there, they're just going to rebrand the current USL2 and really become an afterthought compared to the rest of the USL.
would be super cool to see but its super lame that it wouldn't involve the mls
The only way MLS ever implements relegation would be with an in-house MLS2 league where relegated teams stay in the single entity and the owners don't lose their ownership stake.
Maybe there will be ProRel between MLS and this new Leagues Cup I've been hearing about. Matt maybe u could do a vid on LC and where that fits into the soccer pyramid.
There will 100% not be in MLS it’s confirmed they don’t want to and there will be lawsuits for the teams who had to buy in for hundreds of millions
Leagues Cup is a knockout competition between two top-tier leagues. It's not a part of the pyramid, it's a separate tournament that is basically a money grab.
I don't even think that its a wild take that pro/rel in the USL could drive it to overtake the MLS because ultimately, its fans that drive the teams and the money, not the league itself. If pro/rel can generate a stronger fan culture in the USL than in the MLS, USL teams would start to generate more revenue, attracting bigger investors and better players.
The USL will never overtake the MLS under any circumstances
MLS is one of the top earning sports leagues in the world. USL will never overtake, but if a whole pyramid of pro/rel forms below the MLS there is a lot of pressure for them to adopt pro/rel too
@@ericramos1916 No because the MLS is a separate entity & also it’s an outdated, financially unstable idea
@@fivehundrediq5212 Actually, the US is lucky we have MLS even with its franchise no relegation mode. Until 2014 soccer or football was regularly attacked by our politicians, media, etc. as "sissyball" watched only by unpatriotic citizens who should stripped of their rights and deported. Think I am making this up? Google "soccer is a sissy sport". in addition, American media despises soccer because there are no ad breaks, so the only way to grow the sport in the US was to adopt the billionaire owner franchise system with no relegation and a hard salary cap.
Also I feel the quality of football will become a lot better as well since the stakes are so high
USL always had to be the one to start pro-rel in US Soccer. Things would massively need to change in the MLS for pro/rel to be a viable option, but as long as this doesn’t create stale and predictable title races like most pro/rel league have, I’m fine with it.
This is a good video, I’ve always wondered why the USA doesn’t have the usual relegation promotion system. I guess money and greed always play a part but to me the idea of always playing the same teams every season without much risk must get dull.
It would also get just as dull once the novelty of switching out one bad team with another bad team every year wears out...
@@davepazz580 but you switch out 3 - the fun is not so much in who comes up but the threat of going down. higher stakes
That would be even worse... as now 3 teams' fanbases would be punished for what the players and coaches failed to do on the field all year long.
Haha of course. Thats the whole point.@@davepazz580 we could agree to give everyone a medal at the end instead i guess so no fans feel 'punished'
have you ever seen those european fans vs usa fans videos? the reason for the difference is the european fans know they are not just spectators. they have a job to do to keep their team out of the bottom 3. they have to carry the team when the going is tough. they are almost as much part of the success and failure as the squad.@@davepazz580
The MLS will need another 5-10 years for their owners to have recouped and profited enough from their investments before even considering pro/rel. I've speculated that when the time comes, MLS might actually split up with the creation of a new Premier league that sits above them thus creating their own 3 tiered pro/rel structure (prem/mls/next pro) that still benefits all the current owners of MLS.
Before any of that happens though, i could see MLS Next Pro potentially contributing their teams to that third league between USL Championship and USL 1 and having those teams participating in pro/rel. I think you could also create some type of pathway for a really strong USL 2 team to get promoted pending they meet certain requirements AND a bottom dwelling team isnt pulling their weight financially/attendance/etc. The MLS reserve teams function to develop talent so i would suspect MLS would be keen to have those players in pro/rel environments.
If it happens that middle level should NISA. Goto 60 teams this should be
USL Premier ( USLC) 1st
USLC (NISA) ( USL ) 2nd
USL 1 3rd
Hello٫ my name is Sayed I am 20 years old and live in Las Vegas. I want to participate in soccer academy, but I don’t know how. Can you guide me? Please 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
What were the vote results?
What team and league did you play in in Germany?
SG Kinzenbach in the Verbandsliga and I was set sign with SC Teutonia Watzenborn-Steinberg in the Regionaliga, but opted to sign for the OC Blues here in America instead.
Some American EPL team owners along with some American businessmen met with Chelsea , Arsenal , Man city , Man utd , Liverpool a few years ago in a luxury hotel iin London . They wanted to set up a European franchise system . The Chairman of the teams ( and the fans ) told them it wouldn't work . They were told their lives would be in danger if they set foot in England afterwards and to hire bodyguards and leave the country. The English fans would have turned them into chopped liver , and the fans weren't joking .