Heaven or Hell: Downwind sail comparison of a spinnaker, gennaker with a sock and IFS Gennaker.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Choosing the right downwind sail can make a big difference ...
The spinnaker sail was designed in the 1920s specifically for sailing off the wind from a reaching course to a downwind, i.e. with the wind 90-180° off the bow.
Then came the gennaker in around 1990. Used for downwind sailing, it is a cross between a genoa and a spinnaker. It was a huge evolution from the spinnaker, it required no pole and could be handled by a smaller crew. The sock used to hoist and lower the spinnaker made it simpler to sail and safer to store.
Today the IFS Gennaker with its integrated furling structure has all the advantages of a spinnaker with none of the disadvantages:
· It can be hoisted and dropped easily whenever necessary, even in port for ultimate ease.
· It is extremely lightweight, making handling and storage super easy.
· It is easy to jibe with because it can be furled quickly and comfortably.
Let's dive into the video and see how áll these different sails are handled.
If you would like to contact, please email us at info@onepalma.net
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Spinnaker - ”eveybody knows it, everybody is afraid of it”🤣🤣🤣
Awesome demo 👍
Very easy to understand.
Glad you liked the video. We worked hard to use simple terms and explain things in layman's terms where possible... We have more videos in the Heaven or Hell series which you may find useful...
Well presented, Peter! And your Dad‘s Swan looks very well maintained.
Thank you very much! Coming from a professional movie maker, i'm really flattered!
This is an excellent video from an educated, professional sailmaker.
You made the Gennaker with a sock seem easy, I often find the sock doesn't always cooperate either up or down.
I was lucky on that occasion! The sock is unreliable at best. Frankly we dislike the sock and try to avoid it wherever possible. Our cable-less furling downwind sails are evolving with time and honestly, they are getting easier to furl, leave up and trim.
The sock can be complicated and is sometimes unpredictable. The furling system has proved to be more reliable in our experience…
am still launching mine from a bag ... was recommended a sock ,, but now after this video i dont know anymore.,... How are all systems while jybing
One of the best videos I’ve seen on light wind sails . Excellent thanks
Thank you for your comment
What a wonderful demonstration of downwind sail options! Thank you! : )
Glad you liked the video and thanks for your kind comment.
I like the flat, uncluttered deck on your boat. It gives a nice stable platform for working the sails, unlike a lot of boats that have protruding structures to give extra headroom down below, which you really don't need as much as you need to be able to work effectively on deck.
Indeed, we removed many items of hardware to have a safer working deck. It's made a huge difference to remove those trip hazards.
Great explanation and demonstration. Your father has a beautiful boat.
Thank you for a great comparison, I’m an old guy inn Montana and I understand that
you are quite welcome, it's satisfying to know that the video was useful.
Glad you found it useful
Brilliantly presented, congratulations!
Good video. I've been missing the Code 0 and some deeper information about possible wind angles. There are differences between Gennaker, Spinnaker and Code 0. And the explanation of pro and con of a anti torsion cable is missed as well.
Good video. Thanks. I recently did a lot of sailing, a lot of it downwind. We were on a cat. Wing on wing, which is the alternative to all the sails you discuss was okay but nothing compared to the parasailor we had. As a noob, when I first tried wing on wing I found it utterly impossible to use. A barber hauler makes it practical, but compared with one of these kite sails it's only advantage is everyone already has those sails. The parasailor (this is the name printed on it.) took a lot of practice to refine our technique. Once we had that dialed in it was great. It works from 120 ° (180 +/- 60°) When we finally tried 60° it was so easy we wondered why we hadn't been doing it more.
I'm heading back to my own boat where I'm now going to treat my spinnaker as regular option. To do use it solo I'll practice deploying it and stowing it at the dock. (I don't have to unfurl it).
I've learned that it's best to deliberately practice discrete sailing skills in isolation, than while working. I noticed that after hundreds of daily uses my fender and cleat hitches were still hesitant and inconsistent. I can tie a bowline one handed blind folded. The only difference is practice in isolation. I also know a lot of sailors with a lot more experience than me who still hesitate, scratch their heads and take apart their tentative steps tying a bowline. And you've got me really intrigued about the furling gennaker. Not having that sock flopping around is a huge advantage.
Interesting thoughts you share with us. Nothing like practice to hone your skills. As a very famous, smart and successful sailor once said ` the more i practice, the luckier i get!' As for the cableless furling gennaker, it was borne out of a design contest between sail designers who have been looking for an alternative to the sock. I think we have achieved that goal with this type of sail.
Great video. 9:04 - I notice that with my boat with a genaker with a sock, that dousing is so much easier if I blow the tack first.
Great video clear and precise. Question, what about the spinnaker in a sock, that's what I use.
The spinnaker in a sock is yet another option, which makes dousing safer than without a sock. It's probably the most complex setup, because you have the most control lines of any of the downwind setups.
Thanks. You convinced me to buy a Code 0. I sail with my wife, both 78’s!
thanks so much, prior to your video I knew that these are generational technologies but didn't know the particulars, very well presented. might I add the scenery was breathtaking maybe almost as much as your father's boat (she's beautiful)
I really liked that Video. Thanks from Switzerland
Cool movie. So essential. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! It was fun making it...
Thank you Peter for a really well-structured and informative video. Please make more!
I Definitely want IFS Gennaker's for our trimaran and 1/2 tonner to replace the spinnakers. I had been considering a gennaker with sock but you have definitely convinced me to go with the IFS.
I'm so glad you found the videos useful. I would be happy to quote you an IFS gennaker for your trimaran or 1/2 tonner. I raced one for many years and definitely learnt to respect the windy gybe.
@@peterbresnan8984 I will give you a shout when we are ready 👍 few other projects to do first.
What a nicely paced and interesting information video.
Good afternoon Fred, appreciate the positive feedback! I'm sure glad you found it useful.
Great video and explanation! To add a short warning to using a gennaker though, we hoisted our gennaker for the first time last season after having it checked over at the local sail loft. It was only loosely furled when we hoisted it though it looked fine. As the winds (as always) weren't behind,, as predicted, we didn't deploy it and just used our self tacking jib until we reached our anchorage for the evening which was in the Mar Menor. As the winds were predicted to be light we decided to leave the gennaker rigged for the next days sail however, at 2am (why do incidents on boats always happen at 2am?) we heard, what sounded like the chain paying out and on rushing out on deck we discovered the wind was blowing 35 knots and the gennaker had partly unfurled and got torn apart on the mast spreader. We were able to to drop it though it didn't do our heart rate any good and we eventually were able get it repaired in Ibiza (at a cost). The lesson for us was, make sure its relatively tight furled by deploying it and re-furling it or take it down! That said, it became my favourite sail to use for all of the season.
I'm glad you are enjoying the sail but sorry it was traumatic to start with. If you are in the vicinity of Palma, please contact us, we would love to meet you and get some feedback on the system and how you use it to best effect. Wishing you fair winds!
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@Dayton Clay instablaster =)
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Very informative. Thank you very much!
Absolutely excellent presentation of the system! For safety sake I would wear a life vest and be attached on a life line singlehanded.
I have no interest in sailing but I have watched this video many times to enjoy the lovely tinkle noises. Please post more material that includes these wonderful sounds.
Hi Peter, somehow stumbled across this video! Lovely to see you looking so well and still in Palma! Oh to be back in 2011 or whatever 🙌
Mr Kent! Lovely to hear ( read) from you... you must come over sometime and enjoy some fun sailing again...
ive done 9 singlehanded atlantic crossings and used a spinnaker every time. set it in stops using wool, and fit a clutch on the halyard to lower it. biggest boat i set one on was a bruce roberts 34 only got in trouble once when it wrapped round the forestay.
Hi Joe, we fitted a flat plate on top of the bow roller, to support the furler. It was simpke and worked well.
one point in favour of the furling gennaker, is that the furling line can be put on a break-open pulley, and through a jammer, so not only are you not on the foredeck, but you also have a break on the line, so the sail can't fill in strong winds!
Super explanation. Thnx guys!
That was a very useful presentation. Thank you!
im falling in love with that boat. its so beautiful
Glad you like it! The 85 year old owner wants to sell it so offers welcome!
i like that honda2.3 just chilling in the back like what's up
Isn’t the main limitation with the furling genaker whether you have space in front of your forestay, a point to fix to and whether it interferes with one’s anchor?
That is indeed a limitation, You need at least 300mm of clear space to fit a furler in front of the forestay base.
The IFS gennaker is certainly a very convenient sail to sail with. One has to pay attention though when gybing with it and rather take it (by hand) from outside the forestay and not let the wind fill up the sail too quickly and push it where it should not be - from inside the forestay and the mast.
Good afternoon Martin, glad you appreciate the IFS concept. There are 3 ways to gybe the sail and every method has its advantages and drawbacks. I personally prefer to ease the sheets all the way and let the sail flag in front of the boat. After completing the turn, pull in the new sheet and off you go on the new tack!
@@ONEPalma Great video thanks - It would be really helpful if you would demonstrate gybing with the IFS gennaker. Quite a few of the large racing boats seem to furl it during the gybe and unfurl on the new side. If you flag it out front do you not end up with a sheet wrapped round the wrong side?
Beautiful to watch, thanks.
Good afternoon Iain, we are flattered that a photographer appreciates the video! Thanks for the positive feedback.
That’s one big spinnaker pole🤯
GREAT Video! SUBSCRIBED! Now I need a boat.
Suelta un poco! Me encanta! Buen vídeo. Saludos.
That was interesting! I'm curious about the performance comparison though, both gennakers are Asym with much less surface area, how much of an impact should one expect?
Also, the Spinnaker sure looks a pain so setup single handed BUT it gets all the extra points for style, those things are MAGNIFICENT!
Hello David, our IFS gennaker series are very nearly the same area as normal asymmetrics, except the luff length is slightly shorter to enable the sail to be taught when furled and not sag into the foresail. You will notice in the videos that the sails are taught like a Code 0 but shapes like a normal asymmetric.
Gracias, abrazo grande desde Uruguay
Great video thank you, very informative
That’s a beautiful boat
I'm not complaining.
Really good overview
Great vid. thanks. Would love one for our Endeavour 27!
great video, but to compare the standard spinnaker, with the others, did you prefer a certain drop, like the "letterbox drop", "kiwi douse" or standard, as each has ease and difficulties; and would affect the results. ( speaking as a novice, having watched some sailmakers videos, as well as the "code" videos, on deployment techniques).
Also another point missed during your intro, is a comparison of sailing difficulty (aka the ease of which it is to "Chinese Gybe" the boat, if a 'good touch' or supervision is not judiciously employed).
Beautiful video, well commented.
Does the principle of your conclusion go for smaller (20-27ft) sportier boats too?
Fantastic video. I have a Swan 38 /001 Celeste, and have just ordered a Gennaker with a sock. Mainly because retro fitting the bow gear required for the tack for furling gear is more than I want to fit to my lovely girl’s lines. I have for her symmetrical kite carbon poles, so they are at least light. ~For the Spinnaker, I saw your downhaul set up - I think I will do something similar. Until what angle would you run a symmetrical on this generation boat - deeper than 150? I’m fairly experienced on other people’s boats with kites and this is my first time with my own - her stern tuck and round bum bothers me - normally I would fire it at the bow (?) and then pull in as you did. For the gennaker and sock, as I will have something similar, do you have any issues with the mast spinnaker halyard cranes at the top catching the bucket and it getting stuck? And very last question.. could you show in more detail how you’ve set the tack up? Ok - so last last question.. what do you do to look after the teak decks? Yours are lovely.
Great vid. Thanks
Good video, absolutey excellent.
This is interesting for cruising. I am beginning to start cruising. Many years ago, I raced on an Impulse 26 which is a much smaller boat. We used a traditional spinnaker, blooper, and wing on wing with a genoa. We had a crew of 4. So only 2 were available for setting headsails. I was foredeck. We never had problems setting a spinnaker with 2 on the small boat. You say that it is difficult to handle short crewed. Is that because of the size of the Swan? I'm now racing on a Flying Tiger 10M with an asymmetrical spinnaker that is not in a sock. The prep for a traditional spinnaker is more complex. But I find launching and retrieving the asymmetrical to be much more difficult. It is so easy to get twists in the asymmetrical. The furling gennaker does not seam to give the same power as an asymmetrical. Can you provide comments regarding racing set ups?
That was interesting Peter. I'm considering a downwind sail for my 2007 Hanse 342, and had been thinking of a socked Gennaker. The furling system looks to be a good, short-handed, solution though. I couldn't see clearly what you had to fit at the bow - a small furler clearly, but what's it mounted on? It seems you don't need a bowsprit? Also, it seems there's not a steel "stay" running up luff of the sail? Beautiful boat by the way.
Hi Alan, glad you found the video useful. We have no bowsprit at all and a small furler. There is no cable in the sail.
There are many soft and thin dyneema/carbon micro cables laminated to the luff of the sail.
These act as the torsion cable.
Once these cables come under tension, they transfer the torque to the head swivel.
A socked gennaker is also a good option for a small gennaker but will always need more crew to be handled than the IFS gennaker system.
Hope this helps!
I recomend a Parasailor
Great comparison. Thanks for presenting this. Also great location and boat. Is it possible to put the furling gennaker on the inside of the Genoa furling system as on my boat there is no room at the bow to attach another furling system?
Good afternoon Mike, glad you enjoyed the video and it was useful. On boats without space in front of the forestay, we have fixed the tack to the anchor forward of the forestay! On other boats, we have set the furler inside the forestay. It does mean that gybing is more time consuming, but its definitely possible!
Great vid, and very relaxed tempo and explanation. I'm sailing with a genaker plus sock. Your way of taking it down is better than how we did it (we give too much rope, leading to genaker curling around itself and the genua).
I'm wondering, though, about not using the boom. I find that down wind, the genaker behaves much better and is quieter, when rigged with the spinnaker boom. It also allows for more trimming options. Kinda similar to using the boom on the genua when sailing pasat style. What are your thoughts and experiences with this?
Glad you liked it! the ultimate in performance downwind sailing is to pole out the gennaker, so you are very much on the right track. The early Volvo ocean race 60s and TP52s used gennakers set on a spinnaker pole. it offers the best of all worlds!
Great video, Thanks.
I may have missed it (bad hearing) but did you say this was a top down furler?
I haven't used one but the jennacker furler I have used, always furls too tightly at the bottom and hardly at all at the top.
Definitely not suitable for leaving up before heading into a marina because of the windage.
This is not a top down furler. It’s bottom up. The combination of correct material selection and engineering for the luff coupled to correct sail design and using the right furling technique ensures furling success. We have consistent success with our projects and even on an 111 foot Superyacht, the sail furled well and could be left up, hoisted upwind before the downwind turning mark and deployed the moment it was required.
The combination of all the elements make the IFS sail a reliable success.
This is a bottom up system, without anti torsion cable.
Love your 441, especially how clean the deck is. What is the deck material. we have a 79 441 as well and often sail double handed.
Glad you enjoyed seeing the boat. We redesigned the deck layout to remove obstacles and clean up the look. We then laid a new 15mm teak deck with light grey caulking from TDS.
thanks, very useful.
Beautiful boat! Can I ask about your deck please. Am I right that at some point the teak has been replaced with a composite? If so can I have the spec/company who did it please and of course your feedback would be most useful.
Hi Bob, thank you for the compliment. Our company OnePalma carried out the refit some years back and she still looks great to us, so it’s encouraging to hear it from others. We have only fitted teak to the deck, no composite anywhere. We did change the deck layout completely for single handed sailing as I take my father out sailing and I basically do everything as he is not that mobile any more. I’m sorry I can’t be more help.
@@peterbresnan8984 thanks for the reply. There are worse places to work out of than Palma! Fairwinds.
Great Video! Lived on a 31' Sloop for 5 years. I had a spinnaker that came with the boat. I put it up one time. While the performance was nice, it was not worth the effort. What about a Code 0 on a fuller as a downwind sail?
Thanks for your effort and time. Be happy, be safe.
Hi Larry, we also produce IFS Code 0s for downwind sailing, from laminated materials for reaching angles or nylon for downwind angles. With our latest generation of IFS sails, we can add a painted UV band so it can even stay up without suffering from sun damage.
lovely!
Why couldn't you lead the lines from the Genakker sock back to the cockpit?
Indeed, you can do exactly that. It adds friction, complexity and snagging points though, so worth evaluating the extra work versus the benefits. On larger yachts that we race on with socks, the lines are led to a high speed winch, which pulls down and also hoists the sock at fast speeds. When there is any kind of tangle, usually the sail is quite damaged by the sock line...
@@peterbresnan8984 Yep, racing has a very different set of criteria to cruising. I sail an ultra-heavy displacement, full-keeled cutter solo, so I’m probably very old fashioned in my views. Thanks for the response.
North Sails tell me they can’t get a deep downwind Gennaker like this a G2 , to furl properly. Where can I find more information about the integrated structure? 👍🏻
Lucas, thank you for your comment. You will find more information about IFS (integrated furling structure) on our website: www.onesails.com/es/integrated-furling-structure. We have built many of these deep downwind sails for yachts up to 111 feet and they work beautifully for cruising and racing. It is also very quick to set. Racing the Spirit 111 at the Maxi regatta last week, we could hoist and set the furling A1 gennaker in 2 minutes whereas the traditional gennaker with a sock took us 4.5 minutes. We love that sail. What boat do you have?
I have found the biggest anxiety of sailing a spinnaker is jibing.....LOTS can go wrong and you need a good crew.
I must agree with you... however, there are 3 ways to gybe any furling asymetric and every method is useful at some point... with some practice and understanding, one gains a lot of confidence gybing. After all, some elder statesmen (and women) gybe their enormous IMOCA 60 gennakers alone, in lots of wind, during singlehanded races such as the Vendee Globe...
can you fit a existing gennaker onto a furler ? Or is the sail cut differently? Ps love the swan we sail a Finngulf 391 in the same colour 👍🏻
Hi Mike, I’m a big fan of Finngulfs myself... an existing gennaker does not have the structured IFS luff so it won’t work unfortunately.
no gybing, where are your tweakers? Spinakers allow for DDW sailing while the gennakers can only reach, also furling head-sails can cause issues at the mast head, at least they do on the C&C 32 we sometimes race.
Great video, clear and direct! Thank you for sharing.
I have a gennaker with a sock on my Moody 37-1986.
Would I be correct to assume that I can keep my chute while I need the rest of gear? i.e. furler swivel etc?
If so, would you be kind enough to suggest or direct me to the right place?
Thank you
George
We’re glad you enjoyed the video George. Our Furling IFS gennakers have a dedicated carbon fibre furling luff structure built into the sail. Without it the sail cannot furl. Therefore you need to replace your existing gennaker. Feel free to contact us for further advice. Peter@onesails.es
Great vid, great system using IFS setup. I would love to see a gybe demonstrated at some point. And please, wear some form of PFD next time: it sets the best example of good practice while sailing.
By popular demand, we will be producing a video of the sail handling aspects of this sail shortly. Stay tuned and thank you for your suggestion!
How was the gennaker on the sock attached on the bow?
With a simple padeye and block...
EXCELLENT>>
Fantastic video, thank you. I’m wondering if I can use the furler from my shark24 for the genaker on my C&C 30 MkII? ( bucket, sock ect. removed of course)
What is the working load of your furler?
Sorry for my late reply. It’s working load is 907kg. It’s a drum also, not endless rope style. I don’t have a torsion line either. Just my gennaker removed from its sock.
Hello! Veey interesting content, thanks a lot!! So you have any content comparing a genaker vs an asimétric? Thanks!!
I’m glad you found the video interesting. We don’t differentiate between a Gennaker and an asymmetrical spinnaker. They are both defined as asymmetric downwind sails made of light nylon or polyester materials. Can you clarify what you had in mind?
Hi, Thanks for the video very interesting and well presented. I have a 2018 PFR form One Sails with Karver furler and anti torsion rope. Can this sail be changed to the IFS or is it not cost effective?
Hi David, glad you enjoyed the video. It is possible but would not be cost effective as we would need to replace so many panels on your sail.
@@peterbresnan8984 Thanks Peter.
Is this your own method or generally known and done when the sail is made?
Can it be added to a genneker by a sailmaker
I have a genneker and snuffer that came with a Sabre 426 I bought I have been looking at the Harken and Selden torsion systems
Very interesting video! Did you ever test a parasailor?
Good day! Glad you liked the video. I have indeed tested a parasailor. I liked the concept but it does have some limitations. For one, you cannot leave it hoisted and deploy it when you are ready... secondly, you need many more sheets and guys to handle it... our system needs 2 sheets and that is it... ready to sail. Tested on yachts up to 111 feet...
Most informative video...thank you for posting it. So, is the IFS Gennaker what is now being called a "code zero"?
I believe a code zero is for sailing closer to wind In light airs. Could be wrong.
Great video. Just submitted this on your website contact form Peter: Hi Peter - what sized IFS would you recommend for the Hanse 458?
How much delivered to Singapore and what are the colour and branding options?
Tx, Ash
Hi Ash, I’m glad you found the comparison useful! Thanks for the feedback.
Hey Ash, have not received your emailed contact form. Could you email me at peter@onepalma.net ? Thanks!
@@ONEPalma done just now, thanks Peter
What's the other head sail that was wrapped up?
That is a furling upwind genoa with 154% overlap. We love that sail as it powers the boat so easily and furls away so quickly...
@@peterbresnan8984 thanks
How do you feel about using a sock on a spinnaker?
I have done it very often and it works when well executed... however, shorthanded or in strong winds, its hard to beat the furling system. Obviously this does not work with a spinnaker...
Simpler but less range in the genakers than in a kite. Can, could you run square downwind, gullwing, with a genaker as you can with a kite?
Yes you can run square downwind and also goosewinged.
I suppose the asymetrical spinnaker is similar to the gennaker but with a fuller cut. Some will still furl with a top-down furler.
Absolutely, the gennaker is simply another name for an asymmetrical spinnaker. It can have any cut the sail designer stipulates. The biggest advantage of the IFS (integrated furling structure) in comparison with cabled bottom-up or top-down furlers is that instead of having a stiff, heavy cable to furl around, the IFS gennaker has continuous carbon micro-cables running the length of the luff. These are soft and pliable so the sail is easy to stow.
The result of this technological advance is that downwind sails are now lighter, easier to stow and safer to use.
@@ONEPalma And you don't need the expensive top-down furling hardware. Standard down-up furlers will work. Outstanding.
Did he say 'ropes'?
nice video, thank you.
Ive never flown a spiniker with 2 guys and 2 sheets Why? When we jibe the sheet becomes the guy and the guy becomes the sheet, foredect switches the pole? what am I missing?
Good day Ben, the system you describe serves perfectly for yachts up to a certain size. I grew up sailing a 1/2 ton (29ft loa) racing yacht in the Solent and that size of spinnaker was already too big to handle with 1 set of sheets. The double sheet and guy system is used from about 28ft upwards. J24s are often raced and sailed with single sheets.
Do you need a bow sprit for the furling genneker? Cheers
Thanks for your comment. Hope you enjoyed the video. No, you don´t need a bowsprit
What's your gennaker tack fitted to? Looked like a custom bow roller?
Does it furl from the top or the bottom?
How much weight have you got up top, if it does furl from the top?
Ah, at 10 minutes you answer my question. Would be interested to see what's going on at the tack. Is the furler there just like a furling jib/genoa?
th-cam.com/video/3oLhwI2gsVI/w-d-xo.html
Indeed the furler works like a traditional jib/genoa furler. The furling line spins the furling drum, which turns the tack of the sail in a twisting motion. The twisting motion or torque, gets transferred up the luff of the sail through the continuous carbon fibres built into the luff structure. Eventually the torque gets transferred to the head of the sail and the top swivel starts to spin. In essence, it’s a bottom up furling system where the continuous structural Lens acts as a torque transfer tube. Hope this is clear!
@@ONEPalma Crystal clear.
Here's some EU to US
Gennaker = Asymmetrical or Cruising a US Gennaker is a large genoa made of spinnaker cloth
IFS Gennaker = Code Zero
Great video I've been debating between getting an Asymmetrical or a Code Zero
Hi Peter I emailed details for the sail size but not sure if you received it as yet.
Please can you advise?
Thank you
George
Hi George, did you receive our quote finally? I have not heard back from you since so wondered...
No one ever shows how they gybe the socked asym and what happens to these blue ropes which are now on the wrong side of the forestay. A asym without a sock can be launched and doused from the cockpit without anyone having to go forward.
Is that a top down system?
Geoff, it is not top down. It is an excellent question though, which I frequently get asked. Top down furling takes longer and has high risks of not unfurling properly if the heavy and cumbersome anti torsion cable pinches the sail and prevents the sail from unfurling. Ours is a bottom up cableless system. The front of the sail carries tiny, soft and pliable high modulus fibres which, when pulled tight with some halyard tension, act like numerous anti Torsion cables… hope this helps!
Hello. One question: when the IFS is furled and left hoisted just forward of the jib, presumably the sheet needs to remain tensioned and belayed to prevent the IFS unwinding. Does this tight sheet not interfere with the deployment of the jib? I should think it would cut across the body of the jib, spoiling the shape?
Hello Kevin, that is a good question! Thanks for raising this point. The furling line should remain tight after furling or be locked off. Karver’s furlers have a locking mechanism as do Ubi Maior. Once the furler is locked off, the sail cannot unwind. The sheets can be left loose or tidied away so as not to interfere with the deployment of the foresail.
So the furling genneker juzt wraps around itself......
Yes indeed! The sail luff is made of a continuous fibre light material which acts as a torque transfer mechanism to initiate the furl. It’s simple but effective.
Hello great video thanks! Can you talk about the loads on the tack and how you recommend the tack be set up? How far in front of Genoa should it be? Thanks
Hello John, the size of the furling drum is the most important limiting factor in how far forwards the furler should be in front of the forestay. As far as tack loads go, it depends on the type of IFS structure your sail has. Presumably we are talking about a Onesails gennaker with and IFS structure?
@@ONEPalma Thanks. I don't really understand what you mean by the structure? What is a good phone number or email address?
@@johnhill2682 Feel free to email me at peter@onepalma.net. What I want to say by structure is that for the gennaker to furl, it must either have an anti torsion cable or an integrated furling structure built in to the luff of the sail.
The IFS system has carbon fibres laminated to the luff of the sail which take the place of the furling anti torsion cable. Hope that’s clearer.
@@ONEPalma thanks for that! Makes complete sense to me now. Seems a lot easier to have the luff also as the cable. Less pieces and easier to rig. For a given boat and sail size, are you able to estimate the load on the tack? I ask because I need to get a gennaker/code 0 pole built and installed.
@@johnhill2682 we certainly can estimate quite precisely what the tack load can be. Send us the details of your boat and preferred type of asymmetric and I can estimate the tack loads.
Socks appeared on spinnakers first around 1965.- 1970.
French ocean racer Eric Tabarly used it at that time, I’m not sure if he invented it or lived the idea somewhere.
Ht the notion that a sock can only be used only on genakers is erroneous.: in fact nearly all spinnakers today are equipped with such a device.
Good day Vincent, you are absolutely right that socks can be used on any downwind sail. I never meant to suggest otherwise. I have deployed asymetric and symetric sails using socks for over 30 years... whilst socks are more commonplace on cruisiing yachts, even some shorthanded racing yachts use them to great effect. Fully crewed racing yachts do not, however, use socks, as they are detrimental to sail shape, performance and speed of handling.
Cheers.
I had a spinnaker that was one of a kind on my boat (at least I never saw it anywhere else). A light zipper ran all the way from the head to the bottom of the sail. It was hoisted furled, ie. With the bulge of the sailed enclose the “bag” made by the zipper fully closed. Once the sail was in place with all the gear in place you just had to pull sheet and guy and the spinnaker opened very smoothly. The zipper had no counter effect on the sail as it was sewn on the outside of the sail (ie. the front of the sail). Furling it by nice weather was a breeze : I stuffed the sail in the fore peak, the halyard still in place and, while sitting on the open hatch, quietly hauled the sail back with one hand wile zipping the sail in with the other. It was only a bit cumbersome at the end where the size of the spinnaker gets bigger. At the end I just had to let the big “sausage” drop into the fore peak. I could do that easily while sailing alone. I must say the system was very cumbersome when the wind piped up... but then it was just a matter of bad fortune as I tried to keep to my rule to never hoist the spinnaker with the slightest guess weather could become stronger and make sailing under spinnaker unmanageable in solo conditions....
Cheers !
Wish you zillions of happy crossings on the Seven Seas.
Can you get a standard A2 shape with IFS? What about furling the IFS in 20-25 knots? Thanks!
Good day! Yes, we can produce any gennaker shape with the IFS system. The sail will furl with 20-25 knots at a slower rate than with light breezes, as is the case with any loose luffed furling sail.
@@peterbresnan8984 thanks. Don’t you need a shorter luff vs a traditional A2 to make the sail furl?
That is correct, the luff is some 300mm shorter than maximum available distance to allow for tightening the halyard prior to furling or unfurling.
@@peterbresnan8984 thanks. Then do you agree that will not perform as well as a true A2?
@@madario The simple but incomplete answer is - yes. The complex but more complete answer to your question is - not necessarily. The variables are numerous and include handicap/rating considerations if you are considering racing. Smaller sails carry a smaller rating, so the racing A2 may be larger, but alo carry a greater penalty. If You talk purely about performance, it will be dependent on your type of boat. An interesting example of larger is not always faster is to be found in the IMOCA fleet racing round the world. The latest foiling IMOCAs are carrying masthead Code 0 that are no longer full hoist. Through trial and error, a smaller sail hoisted from the masthead has proven to be faster more of the time than a full size masthead code 0. Basically each boat has a set of individual performance characteristics and a maximum area A2 may not be the fastest solution to your boat and style of racing.
EXCELLENT!
Now a short carbon bow sprit that can be angled to windward & your there .
The IFS Gennaker can't be kept flying during the gybe. You lose massive amounts of speed due to that. That disadvantage makes it useless.
Dear La grave, I don’t understand your comment. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean? The IFS gennaker flies in exactly the same way as any other gennaker, be it a racing or cruising gennaker. Only a symmetric spinnaker can be kept flying through a Gybe and that requires spinnaker poles and all the associated rigging and hardware.
We used a 760m2 IFS Gennaker during the recent Giorgio Armani Superyacht regatta onboard a Spirit 111 and all the professional sailors loved the sail for it’s easy handling, multi purpose shape and very fast hoisting and deployment. I have been using IFS gennakers for racing and cruising for 3 years and love the sail.
Looking forwards to your clarification on why you make the IFS sail to be useless.