Want to Sail Deeper With an Asymmetric Spinnaker? Try this!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video we discuss the pros and cons of asymmetric and symmetric spinnakers on heavy displacement boats.
We will also show you the basics of how to square an asymmetric spinnaker back on a conventional pole, which we believe offers the best of both worlds. Yes you can have your cake and eat it too!!!
North Sails - How Sails Work:
www.northsails.com/sailing/en...
Sailing photos courtesy of Andrew Madding.
Disclaimer:
- This content is offered solely for your education and entertainment.
- There are no warranties, expressed or implicit, about any content or its fitness for a particular purpose.
- There are risks of injury, death, drunkenness, and financial hardship involved in sailing.
- The skipper is always responsible for the safety of their vessel and crew.
- Sailing Tips is not responsible or liable in any way for anything that happens on or anywhere near your boat or any boat that we are not in command of.
#howto #asymmetric #vs. #symmetric #spinnaker #square #back #conventional #pole #sailing #howtosail #learntosail #sailingtips
Really thinking outside the box on this one. All of the older boats will have a spinnaker pole that in many cases is seldom - never used, so the idea of having the option of poling out the asym has an appeal in that it's not required and can be added if wanted without the rush of setting it up before the launch - also no more expensive kit to buy. The video clips and labelled images are very helpful in understanding your technique. With the increasing interest in shorthanded sailing/racing and the challenge of downwind sailing with few hands ideas like this are right on the money. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks so much! I can't take all the credit - what I did is a smaller boat adaptation of a big boat technique I saw on the Santa Cruz 70 Westerly. I don't have much experience on boats that size but apparently it is much more common on really big boats without bowsprits, as the conventional symmetric approach is just too unwieldy.
You can also easily revert to conventional symmetric dip pole gybing by sharing tack line and downhaul duty on the same line. Just rig the conventional downhaul as a 2:1 on your foredeck, with one end going back to the cockpit, and the other end continuing on to the bow. Just pull all the slack out of one to use the other. Hope this helps!
Best asymmetric spinnaker video out there!
Glad you liked it!!! Too bad I sold that boat otherwise I’d make more!!!
Best spinnaker/gennaker video I have seen yet -- and I have seen many. Bty, I'm not a sock fan either. If you every gyb your gennaker the top of the sock can get caught up in the rigging and be difficult to drop. You can also get the hour glass problem on launch and not be able to lift the sock all the way.
Thanks so much! Yes you’ve outlined pretty much all the reasons I hate socks!!!
Phenomenal intro., thank you! Had to review certain segments multiple times until I got it, but you explained things well enough even for this spinnaker newbie. Can't wait to try it. : )
Glad it was helpful! Unfortunately I sold the boat before I made the video so had to rely on old photos otherwise I could have shot a video of it in action!
Love your spinnaker problem!
Honestly, squaring back an asymmetric spinnaker with a pole on a displacement boat is the secret sauce!!! We won a ton of races with this technique and I don’t know why more people don’t do it. Everybody thinks you need a bowsprit when a conventional pole is actually better because you can sail deeper and you don’t take a rating penalty (depending on your rating organization).
I frequently do bow on a beneteau 50, and have managed to get the asym on the pole a couple times. VMG is so much better when we do! I appreciate your tips, we're definitely still working out the crew work to gybe it efficiently. On another boat, we poled out the genoa to windward and flew the asym to leeward. It was a little comical, but our local PHRF allows it!
I think squaring back the asymmetric on the pole would be much more efficient than the creative double headsail rig because you’re getting “wing” airflow over the asymmetric which is more effective than “parachute” mode!
Yea
Yea thanks ☺️ I just bought this new car 🚙 bought and sold for Christmas 🎄 and it is so nice 😊 I look 👀 mppk
In the 1980 Swiftsure they allowed the small boats to do the long course. 140 miles. We were on a Morgan 27. Coming back it was blowing 30+. After a couple of really good broaches we took the spi down. I was the youngest crew so I got to go on the foredeck and put up a 135% lapper. I rigged just like an asymmetric. Tack at the pole and sheet outside the forestay. The boat was really well balanced. At one point we did 11 miles in one hour. Best hour ever on that boat.
That's a good story, and a long trip and good result on a smaller boat! On our multihull we use our screacher to similar effect, which is basically a free-flying roller furling genoa that we fly off the bowsprit. Squaring back the asymmetric on a pole is a weapon in races like Swiftsure (Juan de Fuca and Cape Flattery) because you can sail pretty close to the rhumb line back to Race Rocks with good speed with the boat fully powered up, and not having to gybe, then just ease the pole forward as you round Race Rocks.
Great stuff - thanks.
Thanks! I’m surprised more people don’t do this!!!
This was great!
Thanks - glad you liked it!
Thanks for this video.
I have a jeanneau Sunfast 3200, and have two asymmetricals plus a conventional. I have a furler for the symmetricals, like a jib furler, which is designed to sit on the standard short bow sprit. It makes dousing the symmetrical easy from the cockpit. It's a bit dangerous if racing by yourself, to be trying to pull a sail into the boat, with other boats around and approaching a leeward mark. Despite my remote for the autopilot hanging around my neck, I worry about things going wrong, being slower than I planned (I'm not young) and not seeing a boat approaching, which can happen when your pulling a sail down and then something sticks or the wind catches etc. . I don't want to spoil my name by having a problem either!
I spoke to the sailmaker about my intention to pole out the asymmetrical, and he said don't do it, its too slow. But my idea was to leave the sail on its furler off the bowsprit, and pole out the leech of the symmetrical. Hence the sailmaker saying it won't work (Doyles operation where I live). Better to go broad and fast he said (the boat can go fairly quick off the wind). I am yet to race the boat but am almost ready - and for our winter races in Australia (its winter now) its typically a windward return course. So running deep makes sense. But on a shortish course gybing being slower in a breeze (ie 15 -20 knots) single handed or with my wife on board (still single handed therefore) still seems a challenge. I'd love to be able to unpeel the genniker, use a pole, and then be able to furl it back from the cockpit!! My pole is carbon too, it super light!!! I need to work things out alright ...
It’s an interesting idea to square the entire furler back on the pole - maybe just use some kind of adjustable tack line at the base of the furler? It would definitely be slower to gybe but if you’re sailing longer courses maybe it’s worth the trade-off?
Nice tip. In our winter club races on a first 260 when the downwind mark is typically dead down wind, we goose wing our asymmetric. The main sail is pushed our to windward, so quite extreme by the lee. It works fine, but it is a hand full in strong wind or gusty conditions. I will try your technique.
The main disadvantage with this technique is that it's slightly slower to gybe than a symmetric kite or goose-winged asymmetric, because of the time required to ease the tack back to the forestay, move the pole, square back on the other side, so you just need to leave a bit more sea room if you're in a tight space.
Such a well thought out and organized video. You answer all the questions one would have about this.
I came for the R2AK commentary, stayed for the clever use of an asym.
Thank you!!
Glad you found at least a couple things useful on the channel - thanks for watching!
@@SailingTipsCa I’ve got some R2AK aspirations I’d love to chat with you some time if you have time. What’s the best way to contact you?
@@ChristianNally Sounds exciting - you can email “info at SailingTips dot ca”.
This is great - thanks. I have a 1974 Swan 38 and about to start properly racing her. I have an A2 and an S1 and S3. The Symmetricals scare the crap out of me with their loads and with my boat’s shape and broaching. One of the other questions I have is around loads and wind pressure and when to go from a kite to a poled out headsail. On a friends boat, which planes, we carry a kite up to 35knots (A4 or S4). he was telling me that the pressure is just so great with the displacement of my boat that over 18knots I should not carry kites. Thoughts? My winches are large (56lb primaries and 46lb for kites). Also, I have a sock on my current A2 as we;re mostly sailing two handed. It really works but I hate the set of it at the top. To stop wraps around the forestay we run a very old fashioned ‘net’ - which is a a couple of VB cords laced together, and clipped to the forestay to the mast. Works fabulously.
That’s great that you’re going to get out racing! I’d tend to think of it more in terms of boat speed rules instead of wind speed rules. For example, our Catalina 42 was fairly easily driven to about 10 knots of boat speed (sustained) but anything above that took exponentially more power, like a wave to surf. So once we got to 10 knots with the 0.75 oz S2 or A2 we knew the loads would increase rapidly so we had to go to the 1.5 oz S4 or A3 kite or risk blowing up the 0.75 oz kite. This normally happened at around 22-25 knots of wind so 18-20 knots is probably pretty close to your limit with a 0.75 oz kite on your boat which is slightly smaller. We did fly the 1.5 oz S4 and A3 in 30-35 knots but still only got 10-11 knots of sustained boat speed DDW with 25 knots of apparent wind from dead astern, with the whole boat vibrating like it was going to explode! So find your boat’s “terminal velocity” and go to a poled out genoa at that point. Another rule of thumb we used for VMG sailing with spinnakers was to sail deeper only once boat speed reached 6.5 knots, or maybe 6 knots on your boat. If boat speed was below 6.5 knots we’d sail a hotter angle until the apparent wind was on the beam, or even slightly forward of that if the wind was very light. We had a net too, mostly used that at night when people were tired. I bought a sock early on but only used it for less than a year as it would sometimes get fouled on the head stay and I couldn’t pull it down - yikes! So we always did a letterbox douse when the wind was up or short-handed. Hope this helps and good luck!
Great clip. What percentage of the time would you say you were flying your A2 with a pole?
Thanks
Glad you liked it! I'd say we used the A2 on the pole about 2/3 of the time. Our boat was 42 feet, so we basically followed Stan Honey's rule of thumb on his Cal 40 to only sail deeper when we were going 6.5 knots or faster. Of course that would differ by boat and wind speed, but worked pretty well for us. In lighter air we tried to keep the apparent wind on the beam, but as the wind built to about 10 knots we'd allow the apparent wind to move back to around 120 degrees and square the pole back about 30 degrees, more as the wind built.
The International America's Cup Class(IACC) yachts used from 92 til 2010 sailed very deep angles and used asymmetric spinnakers
Cool - do you know if they squared them back on poles?
@SailingTipsCa they certainly did! They had to because they aren't apparent wind boats
@@SailingTipsCa th-cam.com/video/3YhBbTiHKzQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=foAAf0yF135sQJNj. Jump to 11:46 to see them on the run, with poled back "gennakers" as PJ Monty put it
It would be great if you addressed large production catamarans with a code D type asymmetric. :-) Thanks!!
Interesting idea! I don’t have any immediately available to me but I’ll keep a lookout! I was invited to deliver one this coming weekend but I had already enrolled my own boat in a race…
Ive got this weird drifter sail cut from an old spinnaker or asym even that I am trying to think of unconventional ways of sailing deeper down wind with it. Was considering getting the luff replaced to something more like an asym on gennaker? Wanting some more options for short handed racing and thinking outside the box. Best tips for extending the clew out as far as possible?
If you want to extend the clew out as far as possible you could get a whisker pole and attach that to the mast and the sheet. I've found that to be easiest if the sail is on a furler, then you attach the whisker pole to the sheet of the furled sail adjacent to the forestay and unfurl, which pulls the whisker pole back. To remove the pole just furl the sail to remove the load on the pole. But that's only really helpful deep downwind, so I prefer the asymmetric on a conventional pole squared back like in the video. Does this help?
Question: What do you recommend for a downwind spinnaker for a 65' 15 tonne/33,000lbs sloop? For the transpac.
Probably an A2 asymmetric cut with 1.5 oz fabric, but best to confirm with somebody like Stuart from UK Sails Northwest who has a Santa Cruz 70 and has done Pacific Cup and Vic Maui so he’d be a good resource for that question stuart@uksails.ca.
This is a great video thanks for posting. How is the tack line attached to the bow?
I am currently using the bow roller but have concerns about upward loads.
I used a 2:1 tack line to 1) reduce the loads and 2) make it easier to operate the tack line without a winch in lighter air. My 2:1 had a block mounted to the side of the anchor roller adjacent to the forestay, and from there the tack line went up to the spinnaker tack shackle, then back down to a padeye bolted to the very front of the boat, beside the anchor roller. I also added an extra bolt through the anchor roller and deck adjacent to the block and forestay to take the upward loads. Hope this helps!
@@SailingTipsCa Do you have a picture of that?
@@jllaforce This is the best picture I could find… www.icloud.com/photos/#016uJ4HwOs8Tztl0t1TIzlgEw
@@jllaforce I tried sharing an iCloud link but it seemed to expire after a single view - gotta find a better way to share photos in TH-cam comments - any suggestions?
@@SailingTipsCa I can still see the icloud photo - 9/5/22
What luff length did you use if you are flying it off both the tack and the pole? If you set it up to fly off the bow won't the luff be too long for the pole? How did you design it?
I would recommend designing the luff length such that the tack is right at the height of the pulpit in the most upwind position (e.g. 60 degrees apparent in light air). This would correspond to the pole being all the way forward at the forestay (or not attached at all). Does this help?
Do you rig 2 sheets and 2 guys for gybing? Also, are you rigging a foreguy (pole downhaul) to the pole or does the load the pole carries acting as a tweaker not require a downhaul? Great video and I'm absolutely going to try this.
Glad you liked it! The rigging connected to the spinnaker without the pole is the halyard, tack line, and sheets, which I typically fabricate as a Y with one sheet going to either side of the boat and the spinnaker attached to the pendant. To add the pole you only need a pole topping lift and a guy for each side connected to the beamiest part of the boat. Only the active guy needs to be connected, and you can disconnect the other. You don't need a separate pole downhaul because the tack line to the bow and the guy together limit the upward travel of the pole. Does this help?
@@SailingTipsCa for racing, doesn't that slow down the gybing process, having to remove one guy and attach the other? Versus having them both attached to the tack?
@@robertmann8895 You can definitely leave both guys attached to the tack to speed things up for racing, just need to ensure they are long enough to lead around the forestay to the squared back tack position on the other gybe.
I like this rig. Have you a block on the bow for the 2:1 foreguy , then led back to a control? Great vid@@SailingTipsCa
@@lumber002 Glad you liked it! Yes the foreguy / tack line runs from a cockpit clutch adjacent to a cabin top winch, forward to a block on the anchor roller, up to a low friction ring on a shackle on the spinnaker tack, and back down to a padeye on the bow.
I'm new to sailing, am destined to be solo/shorthanded, and was researching what my one downwind sail would be... what's your thoughts on top down furling asym' spinnakers? (Sun Odyssey 37...)
I used the A2 runner (0.75oz cloth with 0.0 oz luff) 95% of the time with a racing crew but my first spinnaker was an A3 reacher (1.5oz cloth) which was a bit more conservative so tended to use more when short-handed, plus the thicker cloth was bombproof. So an A3 reacher would be more forgiving as a first spinnaker at the expense of not flying quite as well in very light air or deep downwind. Top down furlers can be helpful but also finicky to get set up and working properly. But once they’re dialed in they can work quite well. The Sun Odyssey 37 is a great boat to get started with because it doesn’t have a huge rig so you won’t get into too much trouble, with the compromise being that it’s a bit sluggish in light air. Given that you could quite safely fly an A2 runner as well. I’d recommend getting out on some similar boats with experienced crews to see how they handle spinnaker launches and douses!
Thanks & happy new year! @@SailingTipsCa
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Glad you liked it!
So basically like poling out a symmetric spinnaker, but with an extended tack line also acting as a foreguy, right?
One could probably also (keep the tack line on the deck or bowsprit and) pole out the clew for sailing deeper, but I'm not sure how good the aerodynamics or boat balance would be. I'm sure it's been tried. Obviously it depends on the shape of the sail.
Yes it’s very much like squaring back a symmetric spinnaker on the pole, but the tack is always attached to the bow, and you turn the kite inside-out to gybe, rather than swapping the tack and clew.
You could also pole out the clew for very deep wing on wing sailing, but I’ve never liked that because the sail is shaped for optimum efficiency with the air flowing over it from the luff to leach, so I’d rather just square the luff back further than pole out the clew. Plus this gives you more options to react if the wind suddenly builds and/or comes forward.
@@SailingTipsCa Right, the asyms are meant to have airflow to generate lift. Syms would be better as a parachute that way. So asyms would probably not work as well with the clew poled out.
(But if it were, say your only spinnaker, it might do something. However probably better to broad reach within the designed favorable angles of the sail (and boat) anyway.)
Moving the tack/luff does make more sense for an asym to keep the sail shape lift better, but at a different angle of attack relative to the boat. (Sorry, words not working well right now. :) ) It's effectively like moving the bowsprit athwartships and up.
Which makes me wonder if doing so gives more or less weather/lee helm. Moving the center of effort of the headsail must affect boat balance, I would think.
Thanks for sharing.
@@LoanwordEggcorn Squaring the pole back when running deep does provide more forward drive and therefore less heel and less weather helm. It’s really quite similar to those sport boats with articulating bowsprits, like the Antrim 27 and Henderson 30.
I barely understood anything! But like the technical aspect.. I'm familiar with Kite surfing, but this is another level. Also, I want to accurately RC these features
I think kite surfing is another level!!!
@@SailingTipsCaha yes, well, it's still sailing, perhaps akin to a bar rigged spinnaker, but with a board
How many ozs would you consider medium weight?
Our medium weight A2 was 0.75oz with a 0.9oz luff. It was good up to about 20 knots of breeze. We flew it in more breeze a couple of times and blew it up. Our heavy A3 and S4 were 1.5oz and virtually indestructible!
Only one guy is shown attached but aren't both guys needed? I have a downhaul/foreguy that I use for full spinnaker, so is a tack line still needed?
Yes both guys are needed, but not at the same time. Only one is attached in this photo but they could both be attached simultaneously. Yes a tack line is still needed, normally from the bow or a small bowsprit. I prefer a 2:1 tack line because it makes it easier to adjust by hand in lighter air. I had a single line led back to the cockpit that could be used as the 2:1 tack line, or 2:1 downhaul for symmetric kites depending on whether we connected it from the bow or the middle of the foredeck.
@@SailingTipsCa I have a C&C35 mk I. My OD class here in Detroit decided 2 years ago that we would allow only one asymmetrical spinnaker, an A3, and that it must be flown using the spinnaker pole. I've found very few videos or instructions on how to do this so was very happy to come across your video. Any actual sailing video showing the asail being gybed while on the pole would be extremely helpful.
@@robertmann8895 I wish I had footage showing that, but unfortunately I sold the boat before I started this channel, so I’ve been cobbling together existing footage and photos. We had a Forespar male/female fitting on the mast and stowed the pole attached to the mast, lowered on the track, with the tip on the deck below the pulpit. We would also launch and gybe the spinnaker tacked to the bow with the pole tip on the deck in this “rest” position. Once the spinnaker was flying from the bow we would attach the pole to the guy, harden the guy, and ease the tack like to square back. To gybe 1) ease the guy and harden the tack line to fly the spinnaker off the bow again 2) disconnect the pole from the guy, move to the other side of the forestay (e.g. dip pole) 3) gybe the spinnaker (e.g. inside or outside, we preferred inside) 4) re-attach pole to the guy on the other side and square back. Let me know if you have any questions!
You can sail arbitrarily deep with a symmetric spinnaker in any conditions. It's all a question of technique. The helmsman need to steer for power balance, not to adhere to a course. The death roll is simply the sailing version of what airplane pilots call PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillation). In terms of control theory, the death roll/PIO is a result on steering/controlling/reacting to the wrong input which increases latency and hence reduces the stability of the control loop.
Yes you can sail arbitrarily deep with a symmetric spinnaker, and best to steer for power balance as you noted. The reason a symmetric spinnaker is more susceptible to the death role/PIO is that it oscillates just as readily to both sides when sailing dead downwind (DDW), which doesn't do anything to help the helmsperson stop the loop. An asymmetric spinnaker, even when poled all the way out and sailing DDW, still pulls harder to one side than the other, so you're much less likely to get into a death role/PIO in the first place, and if you do start oscillating it's easier to stop.
@@SailingTipsCa With the right technique, there is no oscillation, no death roll and no tendency whatsoever for it to develop. The helmsman can be half asleep, steering dead downwind, or even deeper than that, and absolutely nothing will ever happen. The technique required is somewhat counterintuitive but once understood the problem is gone. Oscillations are caused by the helmsman and only by the helmsman. Once the helmsman has learned not cause them, they're gone. Nothing required to make life easier for the helmsman, just have him stop causing problems and you're good.
@@larscelander5696 So what guidance would you provide for death-rolling helmsmen? Don’t steer to correct the roll and let it correct itself?
@@SailingTipsCa To steer so that the boat stays underneath the spinnaker. I would describe it as going with the roll to absorb the roll. If the boat eg heels to port with the spinnaker to port, the pull of the spinnaker will try to round up the boat to starboard. The instinct is then to counteract that pull by trying to steer to port. That's what gets the oscillation going. Don't do that. Let the boat go to starboard, even help it some extra with the rudder. Once the swing has been absorbed and the boat is in balance again, then go back to whatever course you were steering. Apologies for not being able to explain it better. My excuse is that I haven't done any racing for about 25 years now, this is all from memory. Alas ... :)
@@larscelander5696 Yes, like balancing a broom handle on your hand! That's what we've always done and never really had a problem with death roll with symmetric spinnakers. Then again we also few asymmetric spinnakers most of the time.
Would love to race with you.
Thanks for your kind words! If you’re ever on Vancouver Island send me a note and maybe you can join us for a race!
Have you ever tried sailing an asymmetrical "wing on wing" with the clew polled out on a whisker pole? Is that even legal?
I’ve definitely sailed an asymmetrical “wing on wing” without the pole for short distances, normally less than a few hundred metres to clear an obstruction or make a tight mark, but generally not for longer distances because it’s not particularly fast nor stable. I wouldn’t recommend polling out the clew with a whisker pole because it can become cumbersome if not dangerous to unload the system and remove the pole if the wind comes up. The legality of this comes down to your local handicapping/racing rules.
I have bought a 20T 46ft boat with a symmetrical spinacker. Can I use it as an asymmetrical by just connecting it to the bow?
Yes you most definitely can - I've done it successfully on a 42'/12.8M boat! On that boat we carried both symmetric and asymmetric spinnakers, and normally switched between them by changing the tackline configuration on the bow to a pole downhaul in the middle of the foredeck. But during one 130NM race we ripped our A2 asymmetric spinnaker, and didn't want to take the time to re-rig the tackline/downhaul for the symmetric S2. So we launched the S2 off the bow just like the A2, squared it back with the pole, and even gybed it exactly like an asymmetric spinnaker, by easing the tack back to the bow, taking the pole off, doing an inside gybe, and putting the pole back on the other side. The crew was actually amazed at how well it worked! The only consideration was that we had to come up a bit higher towards a beam reach to fill the kite after launching and gybing, and before squaring back with the pole, because it didn't pull itself out to windward quite as well as an asymmetric. And once squared back on the pole it flew every bit as well as the conventional symmetric setup, as the sheets/guys/pole all "looked" the same to the spinnaker.
@@SailingTipsCa thank you so much for your reply. I have never flown any type of spinnacker in my 1000s of NM sailed so a bit apprehensive about the whole process, just being the 2 of us.
@@ralph9987 Good to be apprehensive especially with just the two of you on a larger boat! That said my wife and I double-handed with spinnaker on our 42'/12.8M boat quite regularly. Key points when short-handed on a larger boat: 1) Start in lighter wind (e.g. under 5 knots) until you get used to all the techniques 2) Don't be tempted to fly the spinnaker without a main sail - you need that to blanket / depower it to douse and/or if the wind picks up 3) Make sure you have lots of sea room to drive down and collapse the spinnaker behind the main sail to take it down 4) A good autopilot is worth it's weight in gold when flying a spinnaker double-handed, because it can keep the boat on a deep broad reach with the spinnaker blanketed and depowered behind the main sail so you can get it down 5) Look up "letterbox douse" as a good fool-proof dousing method. Good luck!!!
@@SailingTipsCa thank you so much
NO you cannot. An asymmetrical spin is nothing like a symmetrical. A symmetrical has 2 clews and no tack. It would be the equivalent of driving your car on 2 wheels. Just because you can do it does not mean it will work well. Symmetrical sails are called that for a reason. The middle seam must be straight up and down to fly efficiently. No way that can happen tack to the bow.
This isn’t correct. Forespar indicates pole should go on the sheet not the guy when using a whisker pole w an asym. wing on wing.
This isn’t a whisker pole and we’re not using it wing-on-wing: the pole is on the tack like a symmetric spinnaker and not the clew like a whisker pole.
I fly mine one my own no problem, and the pole gets used..... I don't need a wife and dog!
Yes not having a wife and dog must free you up to do lots of things - like fly spinnakers!!!
@SailingTipsCa yes but when she there she is very handy for other things
@@Corkedit Absolutely!