About the Eye of Terror global event you mentioned: I remember when I was a kid I attended a GamesDay 2004 convention while this campaign event was running. They had several dozen tables setup where attendees could playout the defense of Cadia in small point Imperial vs. Chaos matches against other attendees using store armies and really nice giant city terrain. The organizers kept telling everyone that these little battles would help decide the story outcome of the "global campaign", and throughout the day they were constantly hyping the crowd by announcing outcomes of these small games: "Imperial Victory!" and "Chaos Victory!" on the loudspeakers across the convention floor, to much cheering & booing. At the end of the event they announced that Chaos had one by a single victory, and to stay tuned for new announcements about what would happen next (new books / kits / events etc.). A bunch of us though it was weird because we'd been hearing nothing but "Imperial Victory!" all day, but then some GW red shirts told us the event outcome had been predetermined, which kind of felt like learning santa claus wasn't real all over again. Still it was a pretty fun memory, all of us cheering at each victory announcement.
I worked at GW during the Eye of Terror, and, sofar as I remember we got daily updates on who was winning. In the end, we were told that the winners were a group of Canadian Armed Forces chaps used some real world tactics to take Chaos undivided to Victory. The only reason I remember this was the joke that Chaos had far more order and discipline than the uh...not chaos.
16:10 You know what you just described? Abaddon is the second in command of a Power Rangers villain faction. When he turns up you know it's trouble, but the good guys are also going to give him a reason to leave by minute 25 of the episode. Let us draw more comparisons between power rangers and 40k, I'm sure there are an uncomfortably large number of them.
Funny that you mention the Black Crusade world campaign, it had the same result as Storm of Chaos. Chaos loses, Abaddon/Archaon gets slapped and GW gets so salty that they retcon it and take the power away from players and just tell you how they later won and are so badass and cool.
I thought it was more that Chaos players were hopelessly outnumbered. Never stood a chance. And GW had to step in and come up with some lore to make the campaign narratively interesting???
When Abaddon is being written about in a book, I like him 95% of the time. He's a brutal guy, but he's also very charismatic, even after the Heresy. I think there is and should be a proper way to rehab his image. I would make him into a primarch, make him into an actual Horus reborn, that after 10k years his metamorphosis is complete and he literally becomes Horus by stealing back the parts of Lupercals soul still left in the warp and ascending to the same power level as late Heresy Horus and that seems to be the direction he is being pushed. He's described as a big marine, big as a primarch, he looks like Horus but without his temperment before the Heresy, he uses his the Talon of Horus, I still believe he even has his armor on the Vengeful Spirit, just not in use. Then from there, give him some real characters to kill or mog. Have him go up against Guilliman and essentially just bully him in a straight up fight, Guilliman goes in thinking this is a slam dunk because Abaddon is just a space marine, but he just gets his ass kicked, only at the end being save by the sacrifice of a character and his body guards personal inntervention, say they kill off Cato Sicarius because he doesn't have a new model or anything although I would prefer Ventris or better, Marneus Calgar. Then have Guilliman be like "wtf, that guys f*cking huge, I have to find a way to kill him that isn't a straight up one on one." Or instead of refreshing old characters from the model range that aren't yet primaris marine converts, have him kill them off. Chaplain Asmodai, Tyberos, confirm Creeds death at his hands, bring Valdor back to M.42 and have Abaddon kill him off etc. that's how I'd make him better. As it stands though, there are an uncomfortable amount of people in 40K as a hobby that don't like it when their beloved characters get killed off. Those people are chumps. I love my Iron Hands, they are and always will be the best marines pound for pound in the setting that are loyalists. I do not care if you're a blood angels player that thinks the blood angels would kick their butts because they're blood maddened vampires, I say good luck facing marines with the grip strength of an industrial hydraulic press. They are the failed abortions of terminators being crossed with genetically enhanced supermen and I love them for it. But also Ferrus Manus gets killed off pretty much right away in the Horus Heresy, the first loyal legion and primarch to fight a traitor legion and primarch and he gets his head cut off, but his model still sells very well, it's still one of the best looking primarch models and although the Iron Hands get a raw deal a lot, I don't mind that great characters such as Gabriel Santor, Amadeus DuCaine, Shadrach Medusan and of course, the Iron Hand himself Ferrus Manus all die. To me it speaks volumes aboout their character that they can suffer setback after setback, loss after loss and still somehow only get more interesting i.e. Ferrus Manus dies and the legion is massacred, then the zombie Iron Hands are brought in, Shadrach Medusan is screwed over and beheaded? Autek Morr yeets a moon into the World Eaters homeworld and steals their "how to build space marines" stuff. I look at the setting as something that eventually must move on and should have separate eras with separate hero's, like the Horus Heresy, so that these great hero's or villains can have a proper epic send off and end to their stories. As for Decimus becoming warmaster of chaos, I wouldn't like to see that, but I would like to see him unify the Night Lords , reclaim Tsagualsa as the legion homeworld and start a new VIIIth legion legacy that ends up being competitors to Abaddon considering that he has far better control of seeing the future than Talos or potentially even Curze from the brief glimpse we see of him
I also find it funny that the setting is stagnant, lore wise, but it is also that way, because of GW's fear of pissing people off. Also, the endgame is the galaxy being consumed by Chaos, then burning out and dying themselves, but destroying the galaxy/setting is also the case if they don't actually make anything compelling. Stagnation is boring and it kills passion.
The universe is stagnant due to the nature of chaos. Chaos always wins because Chaos is a non linear force that sets people up hundreds of years before their target is even born. The end game for chaos is the current setting. Chaos has already won. Burning out the galaxy would result in the chaos gods dying. And the gods are far far to selfish to allow this to happen.
Ahriman would be amazing. He's bamboozled the imperium on multiple occasions and - in my opinion - could probably outsmart most primarchs. The dude literally burned Prospero again just to get around his 10k year ban from the Planet of Sorcerers from one of the smartest Primarchs, Magnus the Red. He literally makes 4D chess moves on a regular basis in the lore and he has one of the better origins.. If he became the main villain, in a realistic sense, I think Chaos could win in general - and almost in a justified way - given that Thousand Sons had their home planet burned to a crisp for no reason during the Horus Heresy. It also makes sense because if the emperor dies - the Golden Throne is designed for Magnus. I could see Ahriman winning the battle for the imperium with Chaos, then tricking Magnus into taking the Emperor's place, so traveling through the warp stays possible. Then directing humanity against the many Xenos threats on the horizon with the help of 4D chess and magic. Not gonna happen - but it would be cool.
Not read any of the novels yet but I was very disappointed in the Vigilus book that he duels Calgar and is about to win but then pauses , gets his jaw broken by a skinned wounded hand and runs away. He was there on the killing strike and a wounded Primaris newly crossed of the rubicon who had not fully healed from that trauma still won easily.
To be honest l hate the whole idea of chaos being the big badguy to begin with, it simply doesn't work. The way they treat abaddon can be applied to the whole faction in it's current state. We are always told how scary and powerful chaos is when in reality they are pretty lame and don't really do much except destroying a couple of no name imperial worlds offscreen and getting their asses kicked by the big smurf all the time. I mean they were always pretty whacky and strange (in a good orky kind of way) and noone took them that serious but now they are just an absolute joke. Chaos was way more fun when the traitor legions were just minor scattered bands of pirates and marauders causing the imperium trouble, with the occasional big incursion led by one of their primarchs. I mean it's called chaos for a reason, following one supreme leader in a unified cause kinda defeats the purpuse of it. And besides we do already have a big badguy who is an unstoppable all consuming supernatural force of nightmare and horrors beyond human comprehension attacking from beyond and within and it's called the tyranids.
Absolutely agree, losses are how things grow. Hell even Eldarad died in that EoT campaign but GW just ignored everything because why not. The maledictum thing is a joke as well, it managed to go across the entire galaxy in just the right way to avoid every important world. The writers now are just so boring, although I do believe they have their hands tied by the suits.
I like 30k abaddon hate 40k abaddon.. i think they should finally let abaddon die. Get a mutual kill with dante or calgar or maybe both? Then let huron blackheart start a path to be the new warmaster and have it be this new campaign.. lets older character pass peacefully into the good night and lets some new character get spot light.. but idk just my opinion lol
I already mentioned it few times, but my cringe-nerdy take would be to have all those "subjugated" daemon Primarchs advice Abaddon to perform some sort of power-up ritual which would be a ruse, where daemon Primarchs teach him a lesson by turning him into either more powerful version, or somehow use his essence to bring back Horus. If we're possibly bringing Sanguinus we might as well have other dead-for-certain-no-way-they-can-come-back-really-don't-even-think-about-it characters. Also it would fix the huge issue of regular Astartes who spent last 10k years trying to get out of his spawn point using some random Thousand Sons sorcerer to gain control over Daemon Primarchs (even fucking Horus could not control those guys).
I mean we got a clone of Horus already. Whether you can say it was a 1:1 copy like fulgrim, idk. Might have went off of a generic memory thing for him to recognize abby.
The only problem with that is The Emperor totally destroyed Horus' special juice/soul during the fight, so it would take a big retcon maybe one they won't actually be able to stomach
This is why I hate the Black Legion honestly, the Sons of Horus and Abaddon should've died on Terra, they are my least favorite chaos faction and Abaddon did nothing to earn the title of Warmaster, he's a Horus Lupercal remake to me and I still think Horus was the only real Warmaster
I'm still reading the Heresy books, so I still have a bit before I get to Siege of Terra, but I think it would have been leagues better if Abaddon died by Loken's hands at the Siege.
You're right about the tangible wins being needed. I think GW missed a serious opportunity with that, they could easily be releasing character models meant to only last 1 or 2 editions. They can make the main model generic to keep using it but have 1 sprue that phases out when the character is dead. That way you can Chapter Master's being killed and their Successors rising, Guard Officers who make an impact, Canonesses who find relics, whatever works. Then you feed those characters to the bad guys while the ones meant not to die make MORE impact because of it. Likewise you can do it with chaos characters, chaos players would buy them whether the characters die or not too just for kitbash options, those characters get fed to Imperial characters and this creates groups of characters meant to make a stir temporarily and those meant to stick around to balance both continuity of stories but also the imminent losses due to it being grimdark. They also could easily make Abaddon achieve something worthwhile that finally elevates him to Daemon Prince. I also think it's time Omegon and the Alpha Legion got more involved even just as a deus ex machina.
Great videos the last few days 👌 your night lords take was spot on. You said you are working on a Tau law video. I would like to share my thoughts on the Tau. Some people say they are 'good guys' that's absolutely not true at all they are a very sinister and pernicious cult. 'The greater good' sounds good because it has the word 'good' in it. But what if your entire family had to be executed for the greater good? to conserve food or water for more 'valuable' people? For the greater good. Or what if you have to be worked to death in a radiation mine? You will last maybe 3-6 months before fatigue and radiation kill you... but the resources are needed for the greater good? Who says what the greater good is? The tau! They will tell you what to think and what to do. You must conform to the greater good or be removed... for the greater good. Truly terrifying. They mirror the worst and most authoritarian authority's from our own history. The greater good can justify literally any atrocity. You only have a place in the greater good if you are useful! Be afraid. They are the bad guys. Believing you are good does not make you good. Everyone is the hero of their own story. No mistake, they are authoritarian cult who co-opt and manipulate the useful and desperate
I remember that 13th black crusade campaign. Results from games were posted in from stores. Imperium was winning 65-35 most of the campaign, then the last two weeks chaos wins crept up and it ended something like 55-45 to chaos even though most stores were imperium. It confused us even as kids cos we were watching the UK store map. Thanks for the rant once again sir exile
Probably the best example of "respectfully nodding, and then leaving" where it was actually enjoyable was way back around White Dwarf 300 at the conclusion of whichever Warhammer Fantasy store-campaign they'd been running at the time. Since the writing was trying to respect the actual faction results from the stores while maintaining a coherent conclusion to the pre-established fluff, it led to several cameos and then plausible reasons for them to depart after they'd gotten their stage time earnt by the store results. I felt at the time that it was tactfully/even-handedly written, though it's definitely an easy/convenient cliche that has been overplayed since then.
They should since day one of the Horus heresy novels made Abbadon take charge more when Horus is not around but he's quiet and broody 😒 . I still think he is Fail-badon you are right he should have roffel stomped half of the forces at cadia personally I like his mini but that's about it ... as for the eye of terror supplement games. I played at the local GW us chaos players won a lot Shane it was for nothing in the long run 😑
As a long time Black Legion player, I tend to agree with your assessment of Abaddon but disagree that all hope is lost in him. The way I conceive of Abaddon is that of the "true" leader of the Astartes in the sense that his leadership represents the will of the unshackled marine once he becomes disillusioned by his faith and duty in both the leadership of the Emperor and Primarchs alike. Therefore, Abaddon and his Black Legion seek a third option inwhich the Astartes wish to break with the past and assume the mantle of power and lay claim to what they through blood sweat and tears had conquered during the Great Crusade, that being vast expanse of the Imperium of Man. The best example of this I would argue happens In the Black Legion series when the clone of Horus calls to his chosen son only for Abaddon to tell him without hesitation that he is not his son and kills him then and there. I see this as symbolic of the core philosophy of the Black Legion that I have laid out. When all faith and duty in authority shatters, one must have the courage to look both within himself and to his fellow brothers in arms for a new sense of belonging and purpose. This is both the tragedy of loss and the triumph of will that the Black Legion has that can make them compelling force in Warhammer which I hope the likes of Aaron Demski Bowden can atleast inpart accomplish in showing... "In shame and shadow recast, in black and gold reborn..."
I very much like and agree with your write up. Abbadon suffers from meme culture, corporate BS, and post 8th lore "advancement". He is a very interesting and compelling character once you come to understand him.
@@jamesespinosa690 Yeah I really hate how they handled the Fall of Cadia. They keep telling us things are happening and that the stakes are super high as the Imperium stands on the brink of collaspe and yet all they show us is the complete contrary with the Imperium experiencing a technological renaissance via the Primaris Marines etc. In regards to meme culture, I also agree with that it's a big problem which really is the community's fault for embracing it as it has. Be it the "lol so funny" Krieg shovel shit, the over the top "I SENSE HERESY!!!!!!" eyeroller, or the "Abbadon the armless" memes, the great irony is that these decades old memes are rather symbolic of the current stagnation we see in the lore imo.
@@mikaistvan9830 The thing that really gets my goat with the whole "Fall of cadia" is that Cadia as a fortress world just doesn't make sense. If it needed nuking, you can fling asteroids at it. Or worst case scenario, a few cruisers/grand cruisers would be sufficient to wipe out all life on the surface. Wasting a Blackstone Fortress really smacks of low IQ writers being in charge. Especially when Abbadon once had a world killing ship of his own. And also considering that the Blackstone Fortresses are worldkillers themselves. Furthermore, if the planet was a such a pain in the but. Then they could have just installed an orbital blockade, and ignored the surface. It doesn't matter how many billions of soldiers on the planet. They have no way of fighting space ships.... As badly as Abbadon has been done by meme culture and the corpo overloards, Cadia is tied neck and neck with him for the exact same reasons.
I feel like Huron blackheart should be the main villain because he is interesting as hell plus he was or is ultramarine which would be a nice challenge to Guilliman
I hate the memes and lolcows so much. Krieg is actually what got me into the hobby but now I can't stand them. Every single Krieg fan constantly spamming the same HAHA CHARGE THE TITAN WITH SHOVELS!! HAHA WE GET TO DIE??? HAPPY GASMASK NOISES!!! It drove me insane, I can't freaking stand Krieg anymore and have become a Cadian fanboy just to piss off other Guard players who hate how much attention Cadians get despite their world being destroyed. To that end, let's not forget that Color Sgt Kell took on Abbadon BY HIMSELF, as a regular ass human, not even an Astartes, and managed to hold Abbadon back long enough for Creed to escape. I don't mind Kell taking him on, I think the very fact that a human would even ATTEMPT to take on Abbadon alone is enough to warrant loving the character (see Ollanious Pious), but give me a break. Kell should've been obliterated as easily as Ollanious was by Horus. I prefer that the Guard loses most of its fights, THAT'S THE POINT. The Guard is awesome because DESPITE being so outmatched they push on without hesitation, not because a single unaugmented human with a Powerfist can take on a warp charged Heretic Astartes.
Kind of pointing out the painfully obvious. Only GW and a small pool of FailAddon fanboys still defend that character. He was poorly written, was always just meant to a mini boss, and doesn't hold a candle to his daddy Horus. I think Huron Black Heart would be a better War Master. Fight me.
Only low IQ meme lords can fail to see how powerful Abbadon is. I'm happy to admit any lore from him around 8th edd and after is total garbage. But I fucking hate how they "advanced" the plot so all the new lore is fucking garbage. He suffers from the fact that Chaos Space Marines were traditionally neglected after 3.5. GW seemed to either actively dislike the faction. Or otherwise had no one on the team who was personally a fan of them.
Failbaddon: The disconnect here is based on a wrong assumption which is the notion of 40K NOT being a Saturday morning toon show. Surprising newsflash: It is a toon show aimed at twelve-year olds. Accepting this fact will reduce disappointment in an instant. However I must say that Skeletor (German audio drama from the 80s: Peter Pasetti voiced Skeletor and did a far better performance than the US counterpart) for instance was a much better villain by comparison. He won a lot of small victories but due to his ego and lack of respect towards his henchmen gambled the ultimate win away on a regular basis. Everybody knew by the way the show would end should Skeletor score a long-lasting convincing victory. Failbaddon is in the same boat. He is cursed to lose by design but doesn´t entertain the crowd like Skeletor did. Fun fact of Skeletor: German audio dramas from the 80s: Peter Pasetti voiced Skeletor and did a far better performance than the US counterpart. The audio dramas can be enjoyed here on TH-cam and the stories were not simply translated from English but entire new episodes were crafted for the German market. How to improve Failbaddon: Well, the problem is that the setting is not a wrestling promotion. Failbaddon has been booked horribly but giving him a decisive win doesn´t compute to have him beat an Imperial hero in a duel. Why? Because it would be meaningless. The aim is to conquer Terra and not to kill a space marine irrespective of armour colour. To compare him to Skeletor again the skull-faced villain managed to conquer the palace on Eternia or Castle Grayskull a couple of times. What did Abbadon achieve? He destroyed Cadia, one of many worlds in the Imperium. Translated into MOTU this would mean the bad guys burned down a village and stole all the livestock. Tragic but hardly of any consequence. Failbaddon needs to enter the Imperial palace on Terra and dwell there for a couple of weeks/months before being expelled by whatever forces the Imperium can muster in order to make a name for himself. Defeating heroes or blowing up secondary planets will do diddly squat.
Personally I thought his hilarious ineptitude in his plan to get Talos to join him made no sense, as well as the bending over the exalted did in kissing his ass in that novel to be cringe as all hell.
to answer your question, Mr. Exile, no, you went too soft on Abby. Unredeemable, uninteresting, and undeserving of the love he gets from chaos fan boys. I personally would've used more firey language when describing the worst Chaos character ever, but that's just me
I honestly hate that Abaddon became so contemptuous of Horus. The sway that Primarchs naturally had over their legion was central to the Horus Heresy. Add in that everyone loved Horus, and I just dont get it. He just seems like a child throwing a tantrum, in my view.
There are plenty of other Astartes who didn't like or always do right by their Primarchs. For example: Narek of the Word Bearers, Some of the Emperor's Children (like when they tortured Fulgrim, regardless of their reasoning), a good half of the Night Lords and World Eaters hating Curze and Angron. It isn't anything too unheard of. What doesn't make sense in the Word Bearers' case is that its even mentioned in The First Heretic (I think) that the Word Bearers were made to be 100% obedient to Lorgar, even when they had doubts about things they did. That more than anything bothered me
@@damianwomack4668 Normally I'd agree, but Abaddon was incredibly loyal to Horus if I remember correctly. Garviel Lokan had begun to question Horus, but Abaddon always had unquestioning faith in him.
@Jonhoward93 He did for a long time, yes. It's not really until the Siege books that you start seeing him lose faith in Horus. Mostly due to the Chaos God's pretty much putting Horus in a warp coma while they mind-f*cked him nonstop until the eventual confrontation with the Emperor. He saw how Horus was no longer leading from the front and was being hollowed out by Chaos and becoming a shadow of his former self. I imagine Horus dying just finally cemented it. I don't see Abaddon straight betraying Horus or anything like that though. At least not until the very end. I kinda wonder if Abaddon will end up being the one to lower the shields on the Vengeful Spirit in the final battle. Always figured it would be Horus Aximand, but Black Library decided to waste that character entirely by killing him off a couple books ago..
@@damianwomack4668 The thing about Narek is that he is still "loyal" to his primarch. It's just that in his mind, it's in his primarchs best interest to be killed. He see's his father as being corrupted, as having become something that is untrue to his original intent. He feels the corruption in his own flesh, and feels how it is evil. Loyalty can be expressed in many different fashions and forms. It is a fool who thinks that loyalty means that one would act without question, without hesitation, without thought or conscious.
@@TarnaxTheBarbarian Yeh Damian explains it very well. It isn't until the end of the heresy where Abbadon becomes disillusioned with his father and the powers of chaos too. He see's how the Deamon Primarchs have fallen. How they've become effective slaves of their gods. How they've corrupted and damnded their sons. He sees how Horus basically get's killed by Leman Russ. And is on Chaos life support. He see's how the gods are only using his father, his legion, his brothers, as chaff. As pawns to accomplish their own objectives. And in seeing that his beloved father was so easy to manipulate, by beings so heinous. He begins to lose his connection to his father. The loves, admiration and respect, becomes hatred, loathing and bitterness. These are Abbadons true motivations. And it's something that I think Northern Exile totally fails to account for in his summarisation.
GW really is quite guilty of making an ass out of Chaos over the years. For too long, too many writers have been cheerleaders for the Imperium and haven't bothered to make Chaos sympathetic or relatable. There's been some progress in making the "villains" realistic, but we need a LOT more of it before the LOL cows shut the F up about Abaddon being armless or Iron Warriors kicking sand castles. God, they're so annoying!
I feel satisfaction when I see him get slapped around. I'm not even an Imperium fanboy, but I can't stand Abaddon. Memes or not. He is useless. The only use for his model is to convert into cooler things. An Arthas conversion, for example.
Abadon may be terrible but Ghazkul is just as bad in this regard. The chosen of gork , a warboss who has failed waaaghs and fled cause he was bored. Most Ork nobz would of taken his head for the multitude of failures.
I’m going to be a bit upfront here I love the back Legion and Abaddon so I am biased. But how would Huron Blackheart be any better? Almost everything Huron has tried to achieve has failed. I honestly want to know because I don’t understand their love for him. I can understand hours. Now I don’t like him but I understand why someone can like him. disclaimer I understand that he’s poorly written and wish they could improve it. The black Legion novels were the best example of him. I think Abaddon suffers from Saturday morning cartoon syndrome. He was first created to be a big bad that the heroes of the imperium could conquer. Now GW wants to change him from being an evil brute to being a masterminded tactician that’s a warlord. That’s my hot take I would understand why people like it heron. The same complaints I have for heron seem to be thrown at Abaddon. Thanks for reading.
Huron held out against insurmountable odds for way longer than he should have and almost walked away with a W at several points during The Badb war. Huron also won every chapter master duel during said war, I'm pretty sure The Red Corsairs also defeated and captured Robute during his pilgrimage to Terra and is actually a pretty good leader as far as chaos warlords go. Not taking a side here just listing some reasons why Huron is favored by Abbadon haters.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 Thanks for the information yeah I am just trying to learn. But to me I don't see how heron is better. Granted he beat a chapters, which is better them what abby has done I guess. However I feel like a lot of people makes lore to simply. I am making a minotaurs army so I have been reading the baba war. When you first hear about the war, it's put like this: heron vs the imperium. Which is true but oversimplified. Even if you put it like 4 chapters vs 13 chapters. Even that is a bit simplified, because the astor claws where legion size. furthermore chapters like the salamanders never deploy in mass. This may be me playing both sides. But everyone points to them joy riding in an ultramarines shi and I can't help but GW would never let that happen to the Wolfs or dark angels. But some how it's ok because people hate the blue boys. Sorry if this is a rant. i’m really happy you took the time to give your imput! I am just really happy when talking war hammer lore. Thanks for your time!😄
@@TheRealTheAlphaOmegaProject yeah I like discussing this stuff too, the thing about the badb war is it was written before the ultramarines were the poster boy chapter, Ultramarines hate is actually pretty similar to Abbadon hate at the end of the day. Marneous Calgar has killed an avatar of Khaine, The Swarmlord, And a Lord of Skulls with a power fist. It's obvious they tried to push him hard before they brought Guiliman back and people resent blatant favoritism when it affects their parts of the lore. As for The Astral claws being legion sized during the war that is a bit of an overstatement, he definitely built up his forces substantially as the war went on but at the start of the war he likely only had his base chapter and the Tiger Claws survivors he absorbed. Could probably add his legion building capabilities to his claim for the title war master honestly.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 thanks I like talking lore. I understand some of the blue boy hate. But they def get more then they deserve. Idk I would have to go back to the books to 100% it but I thought at the high of their power was 17k but that's could be wrong. Idk I still don't understand but I can't see why someone would like him. Thanks for explain to me!
So what you're saying is characterization of abbadon is basically "then everyone stood up and clapped" as a person lol. I mean fair enough, still like him though. By the way immediately after writers teleport abbadon away at seige, he starts to cry because he wanred to die with his bros. Is that cheesy or no?
He's not imho. That is a rumour started by lazy GW lore to give him a reason to be able to stand up to a Primarch...he can't. And no killing a clone of Horus doesn't count.
What are you smoking bro? Only Ghazkull should be able to give him a challenge. Don't forget that Abbadon was always so much bigger than his fellow astartes, that many people considered him to be a clone of Horus. And don't forget that he did infact, kill a cloned Horus in a 1v1.
Abaddon just needs to die and be replaced. I genuinely think he's irredeemable as a competent character and it would give GW the chance to have new Chaos characters replace him.
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About the Eye of Terror global event you mentioned: I remember when I was a kid I attended a GamesDay 2004 convention while this campaign event was running. They had several dozen tables setup where attendees could playout the defense of Cadia in small point Imperial vs. Chaos matches against other attendees using store armies and really nice giant city terrain. The organizers kept telling everyone that these little battles would help decide the story outcome of the "global campaign", and throughout the day they were constantly hyping the crowd by announcing outcomes of these small games: "Imperial Victory!" and "Chaos Victory!" on the loudspeakers across the convention floor, to much cheering & booing. At the end of the event they announced that Chaos had one by a single victory, and to stay tuned for new announcements about what would happen next (new books / kits / events etc.). A bunch of us though it was weird because we'd been hearing nothing but "Imperial Victory!" all day, but then some GW red shirts told us the event outcome had been predetermined, which kind of felt like learning santa claus wasn't real all over again. Still it was a pretty fun memory, all of us cheering at each victory announcement.
Honestly wish demon primarch Lorgar would come take the title of warmaster
30k Abbadon (including the Black Legion books) has genuine heel heat
40k Abbadon has go away heat
Those are the books that made me fall in love with the Black Legion. definitely worth a read.
I worked at GW during the Eye of Terror, and, sofar as I remember we got daily updates on who was winning.
In the end, we were told that the winners were a group of Canadian Armed Forces chaps used some real world tactics to take Chaos undivided to Victory.
The only reason I remember this was the joke that Chaos had far more order and discipline than the uh...not chaos.
16:10
You know what you just described?
Abaddon is the second in command of a Power Rangers villain faction.
When he turns up you know it's trouble, but the good guys are also going to give him a reason to leave by minute 25 of the episode.
Let us draw more comparisons between power rangers and 40k, I'm sure there are an uncomfortably large number of them.
Funny that you mention the Black Crusade world campaign, it had the same result as Storm of Chaos. Chaos loses, Abaddon/Archaon gets slapped and GW gets so salty that they retcon it and take the power away from players and just tell you how they later won and are so badass and cool.
I thought it was more that Chaos players were hopelessly outnumbered. Never stood a chance. And GW had to step in and come up with some lore to make the campaign narratively interesting???
Didn't the storm of Chaos end with archaon getting kicked in the balls by grimgor so hard he passed out on the spot?
@@M_Giga More or less. He managed to escape, but GW retconned the whole event because super special and cool Chaos can't really lose.
huron blackheart is a better villain than abandon and huron got beaten up the minotaurs
This really did put in to words why I dont read 40k books anymore. There is no real progression or stakes.
When Abaddon is being written about in a book, I like him 95% of the time. He's a brutal guy, but he's also very charismatic, even after the Heresy. I think there is and should be a proper way to rehab his image. I would make him into a primarch, make him into an actual Horus reborn, that after 10k years his metamorphosis is complete and he literally becomes Horus by stealing back the parts of Lupercals soul still left in the warp and ascending to the same power level as late Heresy Horus and that seems to be the direction he is being pushed. He's described as a big marine, big as a primarch, he looks like Horus but without his temperment before the Heresy, he uses his the Talon of Horus, I still believe he even has his armor on the Vengeful Spirit, just not in use. Then from there, give him some real characters to kill or mog. Have him go up against Guilliman and essentially just bully him in a straight up fight, Guilliman goes in thinking this is a slam dunk because Abaddon is just a space marine, but he just gets his ass kicked, only at the end being save by the sacrifice of a character and his body guards personal inntervention, say they kill off Cato Sicarius because he doesn't have a new model or anything although I would prefer Ventris or better, Marneus Calgar. Then have Guilliman be like "wtf, that guys f*cking huge, I have to find a way to kill him that isn't a straight up one on one." Or instead of refreshing old characters from the model range that aren't yet primaris marine converts, have him kill them off. Chaplain Asmodai, Tyberos, confirm Creeds death at his hands, bring Valdor back to M.42 and have Abaddon kill him off etc. that's how I'd make him better.
As it stands though, there are an uncomfortable amount of people in 40K as a hobby that don't like it when their beloved characters get killed off. Those people are chumps. I love my Iron Hands, they are and always will be the best marines pound for pound in the setting that are loyalists. I do not care if you're a blood angels player that thinks the blood angels would kick their butts because they're blood maddened vampires, I say good luck facing marines with the grip strength of an industrial hydraulic press. They are the failed abortions of terminators being crossed with genetically enhanced supermen and I love them for it. But also Ferrus Manus gets killed off pretty much right away in the Horus Heresy, the first loyal legion and primarch to fight a traitor legion and primarch and he gets his head cut off, but his model still sells very well, it's still one of the best looking primarch models and although the Iron Hands get a raw deal a lot, I don't mind that great characters such as Gabriel Santor, Amadeus DuCaine, Shadrach Medusan and of course, the Iron Hand himself Ferrus Manus all die. To me it speaks volumes aboout their character that they can suffer setback after setback, loss after loss and still somehow only get more interesting i.e. Ferrus Manus dies and the legion is massacred, then the zombie Iron Hands are brought in, Shadrach Medusan is screwed over and beheaded? Autek Morr yeets a moon into the World Eaters homeworld and steals their "how to build space marines" stuff. I look at the setting as something that eventually must move on and should have separate eras with separate hero's, like the Horus Heresy, so that these great hero's or villains can have a proper epic send off and end to their stories.
As for Decimus becoming warmaster of chaos, I wouldn't like to see that, but I would like to see him unify the Night Lords , reclaim Tsagualsa as the legion homeworld and start a new VIIIth legion legacy that ends up being competitors to Abaddon considering that he has far better control of seeing the future than Talos or potentially even Curze from the brief glimpse we see of him
I also find it funny that the setting is stagnant, lore wise, but it is also that way, because of GW's fear of pissing people off. Also, the endgame is the galaxy being consumed by Chaos, then burning out and dying themselves, but destroying the galaxy/setting is also the case if they don't actually make anything compelling. Stagnation is boring and it kills passion.
The universe is stagnant due to the nature of chaos. Chaos always wins because Chaos is a non linear force that sets people up hundreds of years before their target is even born.
The end game for chaos is the current setting. Chaos has already won. Burning out the galaxy would result in the chaos gods dying. And the gods are far far to selfish to allow this to happen.
Ahriman would be amazing. He's bamboozled the imperium on multiple occasions and - in my opinion - could probably outsmart most primarchs.
The dude literally burned Prospero again just to get around his 10k year ban from the Planet of Sorcerers from one of the smartest Primarchs, Magnus the Red. He literally makes 4D chess moves on a regular basis in the lore and he has one of the better origins..
If he became the main villain, in a realistic sense, I think Chaos could win in general - and almost in a justified way - given that Thousand Sons had their home planet burned to a crisp for no reason during the Horus Heresy.
It also makes sense because if the emperor dies - the Golden Throne is designed for Magnus. I could see Ahriman winning the battle for the imperium with Chaos, then tricking Magnus into taking the Emperor's place, so traveling through the warp stays possible. Then directing humanity against the many Xenos threats on the horizon with the help of 4D chess and magic.
Not gonna happen - but it would be cool.
this is why the tyrannids don't have any "named characters" they're perfect for breaking into a conflict between two named characters
I knew a guy who called him "Abby the Poorly Written."
..........Actually I like that.
Not read any of the novels yet but I was very disappointed in the Vigilus book that he duels Calgar and is about to win but then pauses , gets his jaw broken by a skinned wounded hand and runs away. He was there on the killing strike and a wounded Primaris newly crossed of the rubicon who had not fully healed from that trauma still won easily.
To be honest l hate the whole idea of chaos being the big badguy to begin with, it simply doesn't work.
The way they treat abaddon can be applied to the whole faction in it's current state. We are always told how scary and powerful chaos is when in reality they are pretty lame and don't really do much except destroying a couple of no name imperial worlds offscreen and getting their asses kicked by the big smurf all the time. I mean they were always pretty whacky and strange (in a good orky kind of way) and noone took them that serious but now they are just an absolute joke.
Chaos was way more fun when the traitor legions were just minor scattered bands of pirates and marauders causing the imperium trouble, with the occasional big incursion led by one of their primarchs. I mean it's called chaos for a reason, following one supreme leader in a unified cause kinda defeats the purpuse of it.
And besides we do already have a big badguy who is an unstoppable all consuming supernatural force of nightmare and horrors beyond human comprehension attacking from beyond and within and it's called the tyranids.
Interesting ideas :)
Absolutely agree, losses are how things grow. Hell even Eldarad died in that EoT campaign but GW just ignored everything because why not. The maledictum thing is a joke as well, it managed to go across the entire galaxy in just the right way to avoid every important world. The writers now are just so boring, although I do believe they have their hands tied by the suits.
I like 30k abaddon hate 40k abaddon.. i think they should finally let abaddon die. Get a mutual kill with dante or calgar or maybe both? Then let huron blackheart start a path to be the new warmaster and have it be this new campaign.. lets older character pass peacefully into the good night and lets some new character get spot light.. but idk just my opinion lol
I already mentioned it few times, but my cringe-nerdy take would be to have all those "subjugated" daemon Primarchs advice Abaddon to perform some sort of power-up ritual which would be a ruse, where daemon Primarchs teach him a lesson by turning him into either more powerful version, or somehow use his essence to bring back Horus. If we're possibly bringing Sanguinus we might as well have other dead-for-certain-no-way-they-can-come-back-really-don't-even-think-about-it characters. Also it would fix the huge issue of regular Astartes who spent last 10k years trying to get out of his spawn point using some random Thousand Sons sorcerer to gain control over Daemon Primarchs (even fucking Horus could not control those guys).
I mean we got a clone of Horus already. Whether you can say it was a 1:1 copy like fulgrim, idk.
Might have went off of a generic memory thing for him to recognize abby.
The only problem with that is The Emperor totally destroyed Horus' special juice/soul during the fight, so it would take a big retcon maybe one they won't actually be able to stomach
@@liamedmondson8902 We don't know what really happened yet. The final books are yet to come out.
“Nobody is allowed to lose”
Guard and Eldar fans: :,(
This is why I hate the Black Legion honestly, the Sons of Horus and Abaddon should've died on Terra, they are my least favorite chaos faction and Abaddon did nothing to earn the title of Warmaster, he's a Horus Lupercal remake to me and I still think Horus was the only real Warmaster
I'm still reading the Heresy books, so I still have a bit before I get to Siege of Terra, but I think it would have been leagues better if Abaddon died by Loken's hands at the Siege.
You're right about the tangible wins being needed. I think GW missed a serious opportunity with that, they could easily be releasing character models meant to only last 1 or 2 editions. They can make the main model generic to keep using it but have 1 sprue that phases out when the character is dead. That way you can Chapter Master's being killed and their Successors rising, Guard Officers who make an impact, Canonesses who find relics, whatever works. Then you feed those characters to the bad guys while the ones meant not to die make MORE impact because of it. Likewise you can do it with chaos characters, chaos players would buy them whether the characters die or not too just for kitbash options, those characters get fed to Imperial characters and this creates groups of characters meant to make a stir temporarily and those meant to stick around to balance both continuity of stories but also the imminent losses due to it being grimdark.
They also could easily make Abaddon achieve something worthwhile that finally elevates him to Daemon Prince.
I also think it's time Omegon and the Alpha Legion got more involved even just as a deus ex machina.
Great videos the last few days 👌 your night lords take was spot on.
You said you are working on a Tau law video. I would like to share my thoughts on the Tau. Some people say they are 'good guys' that's absolutely not true at all they are a very sinister and pernicious cult.
'The greater good' sounds good because it has the word 'good' in it. But what if your entire family had to be executed for the greater good? to conserve food or water for more 'valuable' people? For the greater good.
Or what if you have to be worked to death in a radiation mine? You will last maybe 3-6 months before fatigue and radiation kill you... but the resources are needed for the greater good?
Who says what the greater good is? The tau! They will tell you what to think and what to do. You must conform to the greater good or be removed... for the greater good.
Truly terrifying. They mirror the worst and most authoritarian authority's from our own history. The greater good can justify literally any atrocity.
You only have a place in the greater good if you are useful! Be afraid. They are the bad guys. Believing you are good does not make you good. Everyone is the hero of their own story. No mistake, they are authoritarian cult who co-opt and manipulate the useful and desperate
As a huge Night Lords fanboy I had a couple disagreements with his take on a few of the things he says but it was a decent attempt
I've Failbaddon the Harmless, and Failbaddon the Armless, but don't think I've ever heard Failbaddon the Useless
I remember that 13th black crusade campaign. Results from games were posted in from stores. Imperium was winning 65-35 most of the campaign, then the last two weeks chaos wins crept up and it ended something like 55-45 to chaos even though most stores were imperium. It confused us even as kids cos we were watching the UK store map. Thanks for the rant once again sir exile
Happy holidays mate. Thanks for the videos!
Probably the best example of "respectfully nodding, and then leaving" where it was actually enjoyable was way back around White Dwarf 300 at the conclusion of whichever Warhammer Fantasy store-campaign they'd been running at the time. Since the writing was trying to respect the actual faction results from the stores while maintaining a coherent conclusion to the pre-established fluff, it led to several cameos and then plausible reasons for them to depart after they'd gotten their stage time earnt by the store results. I felt at the time that it was tactfully/even-handedly written, though it's definitely an easy/convenient cliche that has been overplayed since then.
They should since day one of the Horus heresy novels made Abbadon take charge more when Horus is not around but he's quiet and broody 😒 . I still think he is Fail-badon you are right he should have roffel stomped half of the forces at cadia personally I like his mini but that's about it ... as for the eye of terror supplement games. I played at the local GW us chaos players won a lot Shane it was for nothing in the long run 😑
Maybe if Abbadon were knocked down a few pegs, within chaos then fights back to the top would be more interesting.
As a long time Black Legion player, I tend to agree with your assessment of Abaddon but disagree that all hope is lost in him. The way I conceive of Abaddon is that of the "true" leader of the Astartes in the sense that his leadership represents the will of the unshackled marine once he becomes disillusioned by his faith and duty in both the leadership of the Emperor and Primarchs alike. Therefore, Abaddon and his Black Legion seek a third option inwhich the Astartes wish to break with the past and assume the mantle of power and lay claim to what they through blood sweat and tears had conquered during the Great Crusade, that being vast expanse of the Imperium of Man.
The best example of this I would argue happens In the Black Legion series when the clone of Horus calls to his chosen son only for Abaddon to tell him without hesitation that he is not his son and kills him then and there. I see this as symbolic of the core philosophy of the Black Legion that I have laid out. When all faith and duty in authority shatters, one must have the courage to look both within himself and to his fellow brothers in arms for a new sense of belonging and purpose. This is both the tragedy of loss and the triumph of will that the Black Legion has that can make them compelling force in Warhammer which I hope the likes of Aaron Demski Bowden can atleast inpart accomplish in showing... "In shame and shadow recast, in black and gold reborn..."
I very much like and agree with your write up. Abbadon suffers from meme culture, corporate BS, and post 8th lore "advancement".
He is a very interesting and compelling character once you come to understand him.
@@jamesespinosa690 Yeah I really hate how they handled the Fall of Cadia. They keep telling us things are happening and that the stakes are super high as the Imperium stands on the brink of collaspe and yet all they show us is the complete contrary with the Imperium experiencing a technological renaissance via the Primaris Marines etc.
In regards to meme culture, I also agree with that it's a big problem which really is the community's fault for embracing it as it has. Be it the "lol so funny" Krieg shovel shit, the over the top "I SENSE HERESY!!!!!!" eyeroller, or the "Abbadon the armless" memes, the great irony is that these decades old memes are rather symbolic of the current stagnation we see in the lore imo.
@@mikaistvan9830 The thing that really gets my goat with the whole "Fall of cadia" is that Cadia as a fortress world just doesn't make sense. If it needed nuking, you can fling asteroids at it. Or worst case scenario, a few cruisers/grand cruisers would be sufficient to wipe out all life on the surface. Wasting a Blackstone Fortress really smacks of low IQ writers being in charge. Especially when Abbadon once had a world killing ship of his own. And also considering that the Blackstone Fortresses are worldkillers themselves.
Furthermore, if the planet was a such a pain in the but. Then they could have just installed an orbital blockade, and ignored the surface. It doesn't matter how many billions of soldiers on the planet. They have no way of fighting space ships....
As badly as Abbadon has been done by meme culture and the corpo overloards, Cadia is tied neck and neck with him for the exact same reasons.
STORYTELLING 101:
Show, don't tell.
I feel like Huron blackheart should be the main villain because he is interesting as hell plus he was or is ultramarine which would be a nice challenge to Guilliman
Happy new year northern. Thanks you for all these videos keep them coming sir
I think abbaddon is better since the heresy books
Dunno, he was depicted in first three ones as little more than perma-angry fellow
I still think that Dorn is setting Abbadon up for the death of Sigismond.
I hate the memes and lolcows so much. Krieg is actually what got me into the hobby but now I can't stand them. Every single Krieg fan constantly spamming the same
HAHA CHARGE THE TITAN WITH SHOVELS!! HAHA WE GET TO DIE??? HAPPY GASMASK NOISES!!! It drove me insane, I can't freaking stand Krieg anymore and have become a Cadian fanboy just to piss off other Guard players who hate how much attention Cadians get despite their world being destroyed.
To that end, let's not forget that Color Sgt Kell took on Abbadon BY HIMSELF, as a regular ass human, not even an Astartes, and managed to hold Abbadon back long enough for Creed to escape.
I don't mind Kell taking him on, I think the very fact that a human would even ATTEMPT to take on Abbadon alone is enough to warrant loving the character (see Ollanious Pious), but give me a break. Kell should've been obliterated as easily as Ollanious was by Horus. I prefer that the Guard loses most of its fights, THAT'S THE POINT. The Guard is awesome because DESPITE being so outmatched they push on without hesitation, not because a single unaugmented human with a Powerfist can take on a warp charged Heretic Astartes.
We can't have anything nice, haven't you heard?
I don't know. It's hard to beat the Forsaken as a group.
4:06 I thought it was Failbadon the Armless?
Kind of pointing out the painfully obvious. Only GW and a small pool of FailAddon fanboys still defend that character. He was poorly written, was always just meant to a mini boss, and doesn't hold a candle to his daddy Horus. I think Huron Black Heart would be a better War Master. Fight me.
Only low IQ meme lords can fail to see how powerful Abbadon is. I'm happy to admit any lore from him around 8th edd and after is total garbage. But I fucking hate how they "advanced" the plot so all the new lore is fucking garbage.
He suffers from the fact that Chaos Space Marines were traditionally neglected after 3.5. GW seemed to either actively dislike the faction. Or otherwise had no one on the team who was personally a fan of them.
Why fight you when your right?
Failbaddon:
The disconnect here is based on a wrong assumption which is the notion of 40K NOT being a Saturday morning toon show. Surprising newsflash: It is a toon show aimed at twelve-year olds. Accepting this fact will reduce disappointment in an instant. However I must say that Skeletor (German audio drama from the 80s: Peter Pasetti voiced Skeletor and did a far better performance than the US counterpart) for instance was a much better villain by comparison. He won a lot of small victories but due to his ego and lack of respect towards his henchmen gambled the ultimate win away on a regular basis. Everybody knew by the way the show would end should Skeletor score a long-lasting convincing victory.
Failbaddon is in the same boat. He is cursed to lose by design but doesn´t entertain the crowd like Skeletor did.
Fun fact of Skeletor:
German audio dramas from the 80s: Peter Pasetti voiced Skeletor and did a far better performance than the US counterpart. The audio dramas can be enjoyed here on TH-cam and the stories were not simply translated from English but entire new episodes were crafted for the German market.
How to improve Failbaddon:
Well, the problem is that the setting is not a wrestling promotion. Failbaddon has been booked horribly but giving him a decisive win doesn´t compute to have him beat an Imperial hero in a duel. Why? Because it would be meaningless. The aim is to conquer Terra and not to kill a space marine irrespective of armour colour. To compare him to Skeletor again the skull-faced villain managed to conquer the palace on Eternia or Castle Grayskull a couple of times. What did Abbadon achieve? He destroyed Cadia, one of many worlds in the Imperium. Translated into MOTU this would mean the bad guys burned down a village and stole all the livestock. Tragic but hardly of any consequence.
Failbaddon needs to enter the Imperial palace on Terra and dwell there for a couple of weeks/months before being expelled by whatever forces the Imperium can muster in order to make a name for himself. Defeating heroes or blowing up secondary planets will do diddly squat.
I think the tyranids are getting the same treatment too
Personally I thought his hilarious ineptitude in his plan to get Talos to join him made no sense, as well as the bending over the exalted did in kissing his ass in that novel to be cringe as all hell.
to answer your question, Mr. Exile, no, you went too soft on Abby. Unredeemable, uninteresting, and undeserving of the love he gets from chaos fan boys. I personally would've used more firey language when describing the worst Chaos character ever, but that's just me
Chaos sucks. Change my mind.
I would just turn him into a chaos spawn.
I honestly hate that Abaddon became so contemptuous of Horus. The sway that Primarchs naturally had over their legion was central to the Horus Heresy. Add in that everyone loved Horus, and I just dont get it. He just seems like a child throwing a tantrum, in my view.
There are plenty of other Astartes who didn't like or always do right by their Primarchs. For example: Narek of the Word Bearers, Some of the Emperor's Children (like when they tortured Fulgrim, regardless of their reasoning), a good half of the Night Lords and World Eaters hating Curze and Angron. It isn't anything too unheard of. What doesn't make sense in the Word Bearers' case is that its even mentioned in The First Heretic (I think) that the Word Bearers were made to be 100% obedient to Lorgar, even when they had doubts about things they did. That more than anything bothered me
@@damianwomack4668 Normally I'd agree, but Abaddon was incredibly loyal to Horus if I remember correctly. Garviel Lokan had begun to question Horus, but Abaddon always had unquestioning faith in him.
@Jonhoward93 He did for a long time, yes. It's not really until the Siege books that you start seeing him lose faith in Horus. Mostly due to the Chaos God's pretty much putting Horus in a warp coma while they mind-f*cked him nonstop until the eventual confrontation with the Emperor. He saw how Horus was no longer leading from the front and was being hollowed out by Chaos and becoming a shadow of his former self. I imagine Horus dying just finally cemented it. I don't see Abaddon straight betraying Horus or anything like that though. At least not until the very end. I kinda wonder if Abaddon will end up being the one to lower the shields on the Vengeful Spirit in the final battle. Always figured it would be Horus Aximand, but Black Library decided to waste that character entirely by killing him off a couple books ago..
@@damianwomack4668 The thing about Narek is that he is still "loyal" to his primarch. It's just that in his mind, it's in his primarchs best interest to be killed. He see's his father as being corrupted, as having become something that is untrue to his original intent. He feels the corruption in his own flesh, and feels how it is evil.
Loyalty can be expressed in many different fashions and forms. It is a fool who thinks that loyalty means that one would act without question, without hesitation, without thought or conscious.
@@TarnaxTheBarbarian Yeh Damian explains it very well. It isn't until the end of the heresy where Abbadon becomes disillusioned with his father and the powers of chaos too.
He see's how the Deamon Primarchs have fallen. How they've become effective slaves of their gods. How they've corrupted and damnded their sons.
He sees how Horus basically get's killed by Leman Russ. And is on Chaos life support. He see's how the gods are only using his father, his legion, his brothers, as chaff. As pawns to accomplish their own objectives. And in seeing that his beloved father was so easy to manipulate, by beings so heinous. He begins to lose his connection to his father. The loves, admiration and respect, becomes hatred, loathing and bitterness. These are Abbadons true motivations. And it's something that I think Northern Exile totally fails to account for in his summarisation.
GW really is quite guilty of making an ass out of Chaos over the years. For too long, too many writers have been cheerleaders for the Imperium and haven't bothered to make Chaos sympathetic or relatable. There's been some progress in making the "villains" realistic, but we need a LOT more of it before the LOL cows shut the F up about Abaddon being armless or Iron Warriors kicking sand castles. God, they're so annoying!
I thought the iron warriors were just sitting at home playing tabletop games
Hey North, when will you do a video on how Sigismund is overrated and a plot armor filled HACK? Anyways, happy new year body see you in 23
He should have killed eldrad and saint Celestine imo
I feel satisfaction when I see him get slapped around. I'm not even an Imperium fanboy, but I can't stand Abaddon. Memes or not. He is useless. The only use for his model is to convert into cooler things. An Arthas conversion, for example.
Useless how? 13 black crusades. Opening of the eye across the Imperium. And he wields Drach'nyen, The End of Empires.
Abadon may be terrible but Ghazkul is just as bad in this regard. The chosen of gork , a warboss who has failed waaaghs and fled cause he was bored. Most Ork nobz would of taken his head for the multitude of failures.
Hey north although early happy new year from east Yorkshire also would you do a lore video on Sigismund
No point. I love him. I want to cuddle him.
@@northernexile yeah same here him and barabus are my favourite characters plus Sigismund would easily kill Abaddon
I’m going to be a bit upfront here I love the back Legion and Abaddon so I am biased. But how would Huron Blackheart be any better? Almost everything Huron has tried to achieve has failed. I honestly want to know because I don’t understand their love for him. I can understand hours. Now I don’t like him but I understand why someone can like him.
disclaimer I understand that he’s poorly written and wish they could improve it. The black Legion novels were the best example of him. I think Abaddon suffers from Saturday morning cartoon syndrome. He was first created to be a big bad that the heroes of the imperium could conquer. Now GW wants to change him from being an evil brute to being a masterminded tactician that’s a warlord. That’s my hot take I would understand why people like it heron. The same complaints I have for heron seem to be thrown at Abaddon.
Thanks for reading.
Also, I started in the 8th Edition. So I have a different outlook.
Huron held out against insurmountable odds for way longer than he should have and almost walked away with a W at several points during The Badb war. Huron also won every chapter master duel during said war, I'm pretty sure The Red Corsairs also defeated and captured Robute during his pilgrimage to Terra and is actually a pretty good leader as far as chaos warlords go. Not taking a side here just listing some reasons why Huron is favored by Abbadon haters.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 Thanks for the information yeah I am just trying to learn. But to me I don't see how heron is better. Granted he beat a chapters, which is better them what abby has done I guess. However I feel like a lot of people makes lore to simply. I am making a minotaurs army so I have been reading the baba war.
When you first hear about the war, it's put like this: heron vs the imperium. Which is true but oversimplified. Even if you put it like 4 chapters vs 13 chapters. Even that is a bit simplified, because the astor claws where legion size. furthermore chapters like the salamanders never deploy in mass.
This may be me playing both sides. But everyone points to them joy riding in an ultramarines shi and I can't help but GW would never let that happen to the Wolfs or dark angels. But some how it's ok because people hate the blue boys.
Sorry if this is a rant. i’m really happy you took the time to give your imput! I am just really happy when talking war hammer lore. Thanks for your time!😄
@@TheRealTheAlphaOmegaProject yeah I like discussing this stuff too, the thing about the badb war is it was written before the ultramarines were the poster boy chapter, Ultramarines hate is actually pretty similar to Abbadon hate at the end of the day. Marneous Calgar has killed an avatar of Khaine, The Swarmlord, And a Lord of Skulls with a power fist. It's obvious they tried to push him hard before they brought Guiliman back and people resent blatant favoritism when it affects their parts of the lore. As for The Astral claws being legion sized during the war that is a bit of an overstatement, he definitely built up his forces substantially as the war went on but at the start of the war he likely only had his base chapter and the Tiger Claws survivors he absorbed. Could probably add his legion building capabilities to his claim for the title war master honestly.
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 thanks I like talking lore. I understand some of the blue boy hate. But they def get more then they deserve. Idk I would have to go back to the books to 100% it but I thought at the high of their power was 17k but that's could be wrong. Idk I still don't understand but I can't see why someone would like him. Thanks for explain to me!
So what you're saying is characterization of abbadon is basically "then everyone stood up and clapped" as a person lol. I mean fair enough, still like him though. By the way immediately after writers teleport abbadon away at seige, he starts to cry because he wanred to die with his bros. Is that cheesy or no?
Howdy North & greetings yall. Ok solve a dispute for me, I heard abaddon is a clone of Horus, true or false?
He's not imho. That is a rumour started by lazy GW lore to give him a reason to be able to stand up to a Primarch...he can't. And no killing a clone of Horus doesn't count.
@@northernexile ok thanks for the clarification north, much obliged
It's unlikely. We get scenes of him before he gets upgraded into an Astartes back on C'thonia.
Which arny does North hate more? Black Legion or Space Wolves? 😂
What's the game he's playing
Does old man sigismund count? I mean baddydon barely won that. On topic though, HH abaddon is much better as he fits with how he should be.
Ave Dominus Nox
Unfortunately I think that a lot of Ork war bosses would batter him... which is sad because he's meant to be the big bad.
What are you smoking bro? Only Ghazkull should be able to give him a challenge. Don't forget that Abbadon was always so much bigger than his fellow astartes, that many people considered him to be a clone of Horus. And don't forget that he did infact, kill a cloned Horus in a 1v1.
Abaddon just needs to die and be replaced. I genuinely think he's irredeemable as a competent character and it would give GW the chance to have new Chaos characters replace him.
Armless the Harmless, the cringiest cringelord of 40K
Nope that Draigo.
Dont like the memes?!
That not very "Iron Within" of you...
Abadon is like hhh to wwe like tyson fury is to his fans in the order of daily chaos in boxing that's in chaos 😂