Man I've been scouring the internet for this video. Looks like I was mic'ing my tenor completely wrong. The difference in tone on this recording is stark. Thank you!
I like the presence of the shorter distance toward reed mixed with the body of the longer distances toward bell. This is the pure tone / solo approach for my taste for jazz. Sax naturally has a lot of mid-range and pointing at the middle accentuates that even more. You need to do the clap test to set your short distance delay.
Thanks. Good points. There are many factors that weigh in when you make a decision about the mic'ing position. The sax, the room and most importantly, personal taste! Yes, the clap test is a nice little indicator to get an idea for reverberation time.
Great video absolutely! in my studio with treated room , i rec sax with two mic at same time ( like you with u87 and 414)..But i put the dynamic re 20 "close" and straight to the bell and body and the neumann 102 behid the re 20, one meter away from the sax and a little bit on the right side..
Thank you. 98% of the time I am pointing to the centre of the instrument. At the "body". And most of the times I go with the 60cm away technique. But that's not set in stone, if I need more air, or something tighter, I will move the mic. Always go with the sound that fits the project and try multiple techniques!
Hi First of all, thank you very much for this great video. I learned a lot of subtleties there. I have just bought the AKG C214 for home recording for Saxophon , and will try out the examples shown in the video. I think the AKG C 414 would be oversized for my circumstances. So far I've made the recordings with a DPA 4099 Core Sax, made with modified clip (DPA CM4099). When doubling (on stage) is much better from handling. I don't think the original clamp was a good success. Straightening position: In front of the bell, but not in the bell court. Also straight out. Flap noises go under in the overall mix. As a result, there is a good mix of highs and mids. (with respect, not too much Kenny G sound). Of course, it's all a matter of taste. It will turn out whether the AKG C214 can top that. But I am confident.
Hello! Thank you. The AKG C214 is a good mic. Quite close to the C414 sonic signature, which I personally think it’s good! I’m slightly confused though on your oversized comment though. Are they not almost the same size? The 4099 is one of the mics I really came to love. If you have watched my ‘Recording a Jazz Quartet’, that is the mic I’m using on the drums. Brilliant mics. Haha. Poor Kenny G. We love to take the piss, don’t we? Yeah, I agree. It all comes down to personal taste at the end. Hope all goes well and you have a lot of fun experimenting with the new mic. Happy recordings!
Great! Thanks for this video! Just checked grand piano micing and came here. Wondering if you use dynamic mic for sax to minimize leakage what model would u recommend?
Hello! Thank you. Yes, Of course you can use a dynamic mic. I actually prefer to use a dynamic mic instead of a condenser if the recording environment is not good. Dynamic mics do not pick as much of the room as condensers. I have used the sm57 that even though is a dirt cheap mic compared to the ones I use in the video, it works great. If you are on a tight budget and in a room that is not treated, that is the best option. I have also used the MD421 with great results (I actually use this mic for electric guitar and bass recordings all the time too). And from what I see in live gigs, the RE20 is used quite a lot (although I have never tried it on a sax). I am assuming that by leakage you mean the bleed from other instruments? Yes, it would be better but it won’t be perfect. If the situation allows it, I would prefer to have the Sax player in his own recording space. I also have another video with Martin Kern that I will soon upload and I run exactly into that problem. I had him in the same room with the bass player and I thought that since they are occupying such different ranges of the frequency spectrum and because I used a lot of acoustic panels, I could get away with it. The end result was a recording that was simply not clean. And it’s fine if it’s a live gig but in the studio, why not make your life easier during mixing and capture the cleanest recording? About the video and my choice of microphones. The reason I use condenser mics in the video is because my recording environment is treated. When that is the case, I almost always use a condenser for the sax (Make no mistake though, he would sound great with an sm57 too). So I’d say, the things you’ll have to ask yourself are, what is the budget, what sound are you after (the condenser sound is different to the dynamic sound) and MOST importantly, *where* are you recording. As I say in all of my videos, make sure you get the best sound you can in the recording stages and not worry about fixing it in post. So if you are in a bad sounding room, an MD421 might be a better choice than the 6 times more expensive U87. Hope that helps.
@@ConstantineMusicComposer Thanks for reply. great answer! yeah, I'm trying to record everyone in same room, it's pain in the ass but it works somehow but I want to develop my recording skills more and I'm going to try few room mics to record whole band, and using dynamic mic for individual instrument and see how it goes. will experiment sm57, if I need something more I'll try to buy md421 or re20. looking forward your next video!
@@KyuminShimMusic Hi Kyumin, If it’s an option in your country, maybe you could rent mics instead of buying them because the electro-voice is a £500 mic (almost). See if it works for you first before investing. Also, since you are recording everyone in the same room, may I suggest that you treat the room as much as possible. Acoustic panels are very expensive, but very cheap if you make them yourself! Google DIY acoustic panels and you’ll find plenty of stuff. Also, avoid putting your bass player in the corner, maybe look up some bass traps as well? Treating your room will make your life easier and it doesn’t have to be crazy expensive.
Great vid Constantine. I've been trying to get a good recorded sound on my saxes for years and your demonstrations of distant miking could very well sort my problem. I have an AKG414 too. What settings do you use for it ie picking up sound from the front or a more general circular pattern ? Sorry I don't remember the technical names for each pattern 😀. Thanks again for such a helpful video.
Hi David. Thank you very much. The C414 is a great mic! It’ll work perfectly well. I had it on the cardiod polar pattern (The one that looks like a reverse heart). I don’t think you need it on omni or figure of 8 to capture the rest of the room, but it doesn’t hurt to try as you might have a happy accident. Other than what I mention on the video about the sample delay to synchronize the sax with the rest of the instruments, I would suggest trying distant miking into a well-treated room. If not, you will need to de-noise the sound. I don’t think I have de-noised my audio as the studio is well treated. Also, don’t just try 2m, try 1m as well, you might get a sound that combines both the air of the 2m and some of the intimacy of the closer miked techniques. I personally think that certain instruments need to breath and distant miking is always a good thing to try, so have fun and I hope you get the sound that you want!
When you have moved away from 30 cm to 60 cm have you changed the gain? i mean if you put the gain on 25 db at 30 cm , when you move to 60 cm you bring the mic gain higher? For example 30 db instead 25? Thanks
Hello. I have not. I kept the gain the same. I have only changed the gain for the mic'ing at two metres. The rest are the same gain, and then I have raised them in volume for this video because I record at an RMS of -24dB and it would be too quiet.
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Excellent comparisons. Thank you!
This is exceptionally well done!
Man I've been scouring the internet for this video. Looks like I was mic'ing my tenor completely wrong. The difference in tone on this recording is stark. Thank you!
Hi Daniel! Glad the video helped!
wow, you helped a lot, I was miking the soprano wrong. I'll have to redo the recordings I made yesterday. Thanks for the content!
Glad I could help! Best of luck with the recordings!
Great job!!!waiting for the next!
I like the presence of the shorter distance toward reed mixed with the body of the longer distances toward bell. This is the pure tone / solo approach for my taste for jazz. Sax naturally has a lot of mid-range and pointing at the middle accentuates that even more. You need to do the clap test to set your short distance delay.
Thanks.
Good points. There are many factors that weigh in when you make a decision about the mic'ing position. The sax, the room and most importantly, personal taste! Yes, the clap test is a nice little indicator to get an idea for reverberation time.
thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Nice!!!
Great video absolutely! in my studio with treated room , i rec sax with two mic at same time ( like you with u87 and 414)..But i put the dynamic re 20 "close" and straight to the bell and body and the neumann 102 behid the re 20, one meter away from the sax and a little bit on the right side..
Thanks. The RE20 is such a great mic for brass!
Thanks for the tips, I will definitely try what you described in your comment! Sounds interesting!
Very nice!
Sehr gut Bruda
Vielen Dank, mein Herr!!
Great tutorial 👍
Thank you!
Very informative 👏 so what distance do you prefer? And pointing where?
Thank you.
98% of the time I am pointing to the centre of the instrument. At the "body".
And most of the times I go with the 60cm away technique.
But that's not set in stone, if I need more air, or something tighter, I will move the mic. Always go with the sound that fits the project and try multiple techniques!
Hi
First of all, thank you very much for this great video. I learned a lot of subtleties there.
I have just bought the AKG C214 for home recording for Saxophon , and will try out the examples shown in the video. I think the AKG C 414 would be oversized for my circumstances.
So far I've made the recordings with a DPA 4099 Core Sax,
made with modified clip (DPA CM4099).
When doubling (on stage) is much better from handling. I don't think the original clamp was a good success.
Straightening position: In front of the bell, but not in the bell court. Also straight out. Flap noises go under in the overall mix. As a result, there is a good mix of highs and mids. (with respect, not too much Kenny G sound). Of course, it's all a matter of taste.
It will turn out whether the AKG C214 can top that. But I am confident.
Hello! Thank you.
The AKG C214 is a good mic. Quite close to the C414 sonic signature, which I personally think it’s good! I’m slightly confused though on your oversized comment though. Are they not almost the same size?
The 4099 is one of the mics I really came to love. If you have watched my ‘Recording a Jazz Quartet’, that is the mic I’m using on the drums. Brilliant mics.
Haha. Poor Kenny G. We love to take the piss, don’t we?
Yeah, I agree. It all comes down to personal taste at the end.
Hope all goes well and you have a lot of fun experimenting with the new mic. Happy recordings!
Great! Thanks for this video! Just checked grand piano micing and came here. Wondering if you use dynamic mic for sax to minimize leakage what model would u recommend?
Hello! Thank you.
Yes, Of course you can use a dynamic mic. I actually prefer to use a dynamic mic instead of a condenser if the recording environment is not good. Dynamic mics do not pick as much of the room as condensers. I have used the sm57 that even though is a dirt cheap mic compared to the ones I use in the video, it works great. If you are on a tight budget and in a room that is not treated, that is the best option. I have also used the MD421 with great results (I actually use this mic for electric guitar and bass recordings all the time too). And from what I see in live gigs, the RE20 is used quite a lot (although I have never tried it on a sax).
I am assuming that by leakage you mean the bleed from other instruments? Yes, it would be better but it won’t be perfect. If the situation allows it, I would prefer to have the Sax player in his own recording space.
I also have another video with Martin Kern that I will soon upload and I run exactly into that problem. I had him in the same room with the bass player and I thought that since they are occupying such different ranges of the frequency spectrum and because I used a lot of acoustic panels, I could get away with it. The end result was a recording that was simply not clean. And it’s fine if it’s a live gig but in the studio, why not make your life easier during mixing and capture the cleanest recording?
About the video and my choice of microphones.
The reason I use condenser mics in the video is because my recording environment is treated. When that is the case, I almost always use a condenser for the sax (Make no mistake though, he would sound great with an sm57 too).
So I’d say, the things you’ll have to ask yourself are, what is the budget, what sound are you after (the condenser sound is different to the dynamic sound) and MOST importantly, *where* are you recording. As I say in all of my videos, make sure you get the best sound you can in the recording stages and not worry about fixing it in post. So if you are in a bad sounding room, an MD421 might be a better choice than the 6 times more expensive U87. Hope that helps.
@@ConstantineMusicComposer Thanks for reply. great answer! yeah, I'm trying to record everyone in same room, it's pain in the ass but it works somehow but I want to develop my recording skills more and I'm going to try few room mics to record whole band, and using dynamic mic for individual instrument and see how it goes. will experiment sm57, if I need something more I'll try to buy md421 or re20. looking forward your next video!
@@KyuminShimMusic Hi Kyumin,
If it’s an option in your country, maybe you could rent mics instead of buying them because the electro-voice is a £500 mic (almost). See if it works for you first before investing.
Also, since you are recording everyone in the same room, may I suggest that you treat the room as much as possible. Acoustic panels are very expensive, but very cheap if you make them yourself! Google DIY acoustic panels and you’ll find plenty of stuff. Also, avoid putting your bass player in the corner, maybe look up some bass traps as well? Treating your room will make your life easier and it doesn’t have to be crazy expensive.
Great vid Constantine. I've been trying to get a good recorded sound on my saxes for years and your demonstrations of distant miking could very well sort my problem. I have an AKG414 too. What settings do you use for it ie picking up sound from the front or a more general circular pattern ? Sorry I don't remember the technical names for each pattern 😀. Thanks again for such a helpful video.
Hi David. Thank you very much.
The C414 is a great mic! It’ll work perfectly well.
I had it on the cardiod polar pattern (The one that looks like a reverse heart).
I don’t think you need it on omni or figure of 8 to capture the rest of the room, but it doesn’t hurt to try as you might have a happy accident.
Other than what I mention on the video about the sample delay to synchronize the sax with the rest of the instruments, I would suggest trying distant miking into a well-treated room.
If not, you will need to de-noise the sound. I don’t think I have de-noised my audio as the studio is well treated. Also, don’t just try 2m, try 1m as well, you might get a sound that combines both the air of the 2m and some of the intimacy of the closer miked techniques.
I personally think that certain instruments need to breath and distant miking is always a good thing to try, so have fun and I hope you get the sound that you want!
When you have moved away from 30 cm to 60 cm have you changed the gain? i mean if you put the gain on 25 db at 30 cm , when you move to 60 cm you bring the mic gain higher? For example 30 db instead 25? Thanks
Hello.
I have not. I kept the gain the same. I have only changed the gain for the mic'ing at two metres. The rest are the same gain, and then I have raised them in volume for this video because I record at an RMS of -24dB and it would be too quiet.
Wow Clark Kent plays saxophone!
He has to do human things in order to blend in better with us.