@@louteez but I can play supports other than Lifeweaver too, it's sometimes fun when you can pocket/save/give high ground to your Mercy and I also have slightly more opportunities to do damage as Lifeweaver, I do see it as an intuitively viable combo, not the best in terms of overall stats, but they do have some great synergy
Lifeweaver+mercy is definition metal rank special. Honestly I see it more than moira+mercy these days (when I'm not playing support myself) and I see that way more than I'd like.
This kind of Tier list is SOOO refreshing, instead of trying to rank heroes individually that simply DO NOT function in that way; support being the most important role with synergy i believe. You have a list that actually helps people understand the bigger picture, SYNERGY and COMP STYLES. This is so needed for so many people.
She is a really outdated hero and desperately needs a rework. Rez is just worse than Suzu, Lamp and grip because you don't even get to use it. Damage boost is strong in some cases, but it contributes less damage to the team than most other supports. Those 2 abilities hold her back from ever getting meaningful buffs. Also, Valk is just a worse Juno ult.
@@bigfudge2031I never play mercy and prefer to play with other supports but the point of mercy is to hit higher breakpoints to get the elim not to have more total team damage
@@rileyp3707 on paper yes, except all the useful breakpoints have been removed from the game. Most of the time the boost doesn't make much difference when you take into account variables like fall-off damage, enemies not being full health and the fact the DPS could have killed them without the boost. Now imagine instead of having a 30% damage boost, you just had a Bap shooting the same targets as you instead, that is basically just a 70% damage boost. The main strength of Mercy is allowing your DPS to hold aggressive positions, but other supports like Brig and Bap can do this better at high ranks because Mercy can't protect the DPS from dive.
My duo and i are zen and ana one tricks and its rough out here but we make it work. When were playing against divers i kinda just sit inside of ana constantly charge 5 orbs instead of peeking an angle, just sorta waiting for the flankers to peek and kill them as soon as possible. It tends to work. Also guaranteeing a free kill off of every sleep because of 5 orbs is really nice
Love to see both Ana and Zen one tricks. Depending who are the healers out of my boys and I, Ana/Zen is one of the common support duos and we make it work… about 3/4 the time
Eh. That armor change was never what made her good tho. Just added to an already solid character. I don’t think her synergy with another support is too dépendant on that
@@brycenb2994 Definitely. It was an interaction between her ult and one other hero - its rarity kept it from being very meaningful at all. Especially since during that period, no one was really playing Ram because everyone was on Dva, because of **that** hero's bugged interaction with Juno (which, being the interaction of two common CDs and the effect being batcrazy, was super meaningful).
Hey KarQ! I'm not sure if you are the one to make these graphics but I suggest adding a dark pixel on the outer edges to help separate the images on the tierlist.
The only one i would adjust is lw+zen. Lw being able to petal or pull zen out of a bad situation and still heal bot while zen pokes is better than you might be giving it credit for. This lets lw play away from zen so if the supports are dove its just 1 support, not 2. Think of it like a more optimal brig/zen.
It’s a really shit comp outside of one comp and that’s a ball comp. Ball, ash/cass, tracer, lw and zen is actually pretty good. It’s not the best ball comp but it’s pretty strong on some high ground maps
Bap/moira on even top of metal ranks is so underrated, it's so much healing and damage that you don't need to give a shit about utility. Your allies don't die and the enemies get oh so easily outpoked.
You might not know since you're a support player Karq but Ana/Zen is HELL for the tank. If the team is properly protecting the backline, you literally just suffer the whole game lol. Basically, makes characters like Hog/Mauga unplayable too.
@@viljar55 Sig sure but Zarya is forced bubble herself if any of their cooldowns hit her and realistically has a hard time even reaching them since they play fifty miles away.
Funny, you ranked Lucio+Moira a lot lower than last time which is strange considering its been proven to still be strong in Brawl and rush comps, so I don't see how its any worse now. Plus Juno+Moira, and Kiri+Moria play similarly as well, so I would think they would also be higher. I guess its just the bias against Moira that every creator seems to have.
KarQ doesn't play Moira, so he's not really a great person to ask to rank her pairings. As a high elo Moira enjoyer, I'd rank her pairings in RANKED as the following: S: Juno, Lucio A: Kiri, Brig B+: Illari B: Bap, Zen, Ana (Ana & Bap are 1 tier lower if you're not a DPS Moira) C: Lifeweaver, Mercy
I’ve unapologetically become a Moira one trick now and honestly she works BEST with Brig but just fine with every other support except weaver imo. Masters 3 tho so🤷🏽♂️
Brig+LW: some metal rank tanks play super ultra aggro and that wins games if you healbot hard enough with your main healer cause the red team usually isn’t good enough at punishing. Lifeweaver is definitely the best for doing nothing but keeping rein up as he charges on cooldown. This synergises with your excessively aggro brig, who can end up spending the whole match terrorizing zen or some shit.
Hi KarQ, long time lurker here. Just wanted to say that while I don’t heed many tier lists, I regard yours like a bible; I wait for everyone else to pick, and then ‘just’ pick whatever you mentioned were good compositions. So subjective or not, I adhere yours religiously. One thing I do miss a bit though, is the comparison of these duos to whatever the opposing duo picks. Most options are fine in their own vacuum, but specifically regarding Mercy (Masters rank), she drastically drops when your opponent picks something just slightly more resourceful. Maybe that also helps with your ranking method?
As a diamond bap main, I don’t particularly enjoy playing with LW. In my rank we are good enough to use our cool downs to save someone, but bad enough to not communicate who is using theirs. So often times both of us will use our defensive abilities, which have ridiculous cooldowns.
I just had a game on Juno where my kiri and I kept using our ults at the same time. I even called mine out. We won the game but we definitely could have been punished for that
Obviously in ranked you can kinda play whatever and be good enough to at least rank up and hold whatever skill level you’re at. Buuuut This list (at least from your pov) is kinda eye opening to how bad MOST support synergies are. With even the best only being good if certain comps. Almost reminds me of tanks synergies and how extremely hard it can be to win with the wrong tanks. But no one really blames supports for having terrible synergy as long as they have 10k healing and the fewest deaths
Lifeweaver + any support should automatically be put in the yellow category. Same for mercy. Ana+Juno should also be bumped up. Arguably the second best support duo in the game if we look at the comp scene
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 he’s still bad. You can make him work, but he would never work in the pro scene. He doesn’t have any good comps. He has comps that he works in, but there’s always a better pick
@@JayFox128 Well yeah, but we aren't talking about the pro scene. That's applicable to like 0.001% of the player base. This is about normal ranked games (gold to diamond).
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 well the pro scene is how overwatch is played at its best and purest form. This video talks about compositions and supp duos not individual performance. Individual is how ranked is played. If we’re talking about compositions then we look towards the pro scene. Karq bases a lot of his picks off of comp. Lifeweaver isn’t good pick. He should always be in the yellow tier. The tier that literally is for comps that work in ranked but lack natural synergy.
@@JayFox128 This video is about general support duos. If this was about the pro scene then KarQ wouldn't have placed LW or Mercy above red. Honestly, if this was about the pro scene then like 80% of these support comps wouldn't be past yellow. Proper team composition isn't just something that's only important for pro-play, it's something that all tiers will experience to some degree. A plat team running a Kiriko-Lucio dive is going to do better than an equally good plat team running a Moira-Lucio poke.
Everytime Im on a winstreak it is almost always ended because I’ve got a support who only plays either mercy or moira. I know theyre easy. I know theyre meant to bridge the skill gap. But at some point these players have to play someone that gets real value and utility
I disagree, they don't have to. Overwatch is a game, and for the majority of people the purpose of games is to have fun, and take a break from your work or studies, a hobby might I say. Some people just enjoy playing just Moira and just Mercy, it's really not about the hero being easy or not. Not everyone wants to climb, or learn new heroes even if they play ranked, and you just have to live with it. I get it, it is frustrating from time to time to get people that don't play the game like you want them to, but if you have been on a winstreak, one loss isn't going to make or break your rank. If you are a good player, you will climb, end of story. Let people play what they want, it's not that serious, and if it is, I recommend grouping up with some support players that aren't just playing Mercy or Moira, then it's a lot more likely that the one-tricks will be on the enemy team. Seriously, just let others play the game like they want to, and stop worrying about other players' hero choices. That brain energy can be redirected into something more productive, like further honing your skills.
@@thomashigginsmusicall she can do is heal and dps. And she doesn’t even do damage well, any dps above plat will easily hit their shots and obliterate you, especially after the health changes
@@thomashigginsmusic her ult is strong, but outside of that she offers nothing more than okay damage and heals, and if what you want is good damage and heals, play literally anyone else. bap is better. illari is better. ana is better. juno is better. they all offer good heals + good damage, if not BETTER than moira (Except maybe heals, she has insane raw heals) but unfortunately in the state overwatch is in, raw heals isnt enough. utility is so important. I play a lot of genji, and I watch a lot of support players counterswap to moira to try and kill me, but moira isnt a good hero. fade is strong to get away, but her hitbox is so big i can just shred her before she even gets me to half hp. hero isnt good
People always complain a lot about moira mercy or LW mercy or whatever in lower ranks but like bro... How many of you low rank ana players can say that your team actually capitalises on it.
21:45 Juno Lucio is fun with a good queen brawl though I am only in diamond/masters lobbies so there are plenty of positioning mistakes to speed on and take advantage of
Some points for heroes based on how many good comps they have, kinda, basically. Suboptimal = -3, Flexible and Decent = 0, Really Strong Few Comps = 3 Shows how likely it is that when you pick a character, the other character you play with is someone you can work with well. Higher score = Better odds Ana: -3 Bap: 9 Brig: 0 Illari: -2 Juno: 3 Kiriko: -2 Lw: -8 Lucio: -8 Mercy: -16 Moira: -16 Zenyatta: -11
I know this is support duos but I’ve been playing a lot of Juno and I love playing on a team that has a rein. Speedy rein is actually a menace. Dva too. Just please don’t pick doomfist 🤣
Excuse me what. Mercy Ana.. and the Mercy just ignores the Ana and “pockets” the DPS doing their own thing? That sounds like some metal rank stuff. The Mercy should know once Ana is dead she’s next there’s no one to cover her. If the Mercy doesn’t help the Ana in times of need then they’re a bad Mercy player. The pair isn’t that bad. The enemies will devote a lot into killing Ana and Mercy can back her up and win the fight possibly and revive her. Or vice versa and the Ana can pocket her while she escapes and buys time. Depends on natural cover etc too but it’s not that bad. LW Ana is also pretty underrated. Most LW players are just bad and don’t cover their co-support enough. He can bail her out any time and play as an extra safety net backline. So if they wanna kill that pesky Ana who keeps nading them, they have to get through LW too. Also ILY but IDK why you keep saying Tree of Life is reactive when it gives over health. It’s a stationary Brigitte ult that pumps healing. It can be used proactively to give everyone +100 HP in a team fight, you’re dead wrong on LW tree of Life.
Imagine tracer harrassing the ana. Mercy goes to heal ana. Ana has to fight tracer to make her go away. Who is helping the rest of the team? Other supports like brig, kiri, juno can help make tracer go away AND help ana live in the moment.
@@sawah765 And what the heck are the DPS doing if not helping peel and getting rid of flanks? They just let their support die? That's not a matter of what a team comp can do, that's a matter of skill and awareness at that point. Juno can speed Ana out, for how long? Tracer can just peel away and come back, the team has to help Ana sooner or later. I'm not saying Mercy is as good as Juno with Ana but it's not AS BAD as he said. Like he made it sound like all Mercy will do is pocket one singular DPS or both DPS and neglect the rest of the team when that is not how the game is played. When discussing such topics, we assume everyone is a top 500 player playing the characters to close perfection, otherwise it wouldn't be fair. This is not to say the Ana will hit the Sleep Dart 100% of the time but they will at least do stuff that makes sense in high level of gameplay.
@@whateverlol93 Ana mercy is bad at higher levels, it's okay at lower levels. She can't heal ana thru multi hero dives, she can't pressure flankers to prevent them from going for Ana. Compare to zen or brig or even illari. Brig/zen tend to play close to Ana when paired with her, Illari goes off on her own side quest as a DPS. Illari still helps Ana more than Mercy does (even though she's not even in heal range) because she shoots people before they ever think about going for Ana. I think high ranked mercy's were more willing to sacrifice their ana than lower ranks. They still heal up chip damage so she can get back to peeking, but if someone's actually on top of ana and ana doesn't have nade, there's no point trying to help her as mercy. Just try to help others get elims as a trade. I said past tense because there's not many mercy players in GM anymore.
Yes the most consistent value ive been getting from tree has been to place it on the point at the start of the fight to fight around, since the over time value of it is much greater than the immediate burst, a little bit like valk.
Lifeweaver + Mercy is SO awful, you don’t have any rights to complain about your team losing if you’re actively going out of your way to put your own team at a big disadvantage 😭
Bro all I get in my ranked games is mercy and I know whatever rank I’m in is on me but having a mercy every single game that constantly dies and never revives the right person is really frustrating sometimes and makes me feel so much worse when I have a bad game and and still some how have better ultimate usage and healing output
Judging by how much trouble you were having with rating lw pairs, id recommend playing some more lw. Hes actually a lot of fun now cause the last few tweaks made him so much better
@1mRAO I don't care that people in high rank don't use him. I enjoy playing lw & mercy, and lw is easier to to get value at the moment. I thunk He's fun to play.
Man, Lucio + Lifeweaver at the bottom? I think it's actually pretty good. Lifeweaver supplements Lucio's lack of healing and range and has an easy out button for if the engages start going south. He's also survivable enough that you can still put up a fight if the enemy team decides to dive you. Lifeweaver excels at enabling a highly aggressive comp and Lucio excels at enabling and being that highly aggressive comp. Lifeweaver + Mercy though, yeah complete trash, but it lets me play some Thornweaver so at least that's fun.
Idk where this misconception that Weaver is good in brawl comps came from, but he's pretty bad in them. He's just a super defensive character, you shouldn't play him in aggressive comps.
Wow, so Moira is the worst support? Also sad because I feel like Brig will get nerfed, Im guessing theyll revert Repair Packs back to 6 seconds? Rally ult cost increase?
I really like Juno’s kit but I still think she could be tweaked a bit, I do think she looks to be over performing. Maybe lower torpedo burst but let her shoot during windup, and holy nerf her ult. That thing is a free fight win, better than kitsune with its value imo.
Funny to see the brig+ Lucio placement so low, because I would bet brig + Lucio has a really high winrate. According to over buff these heros both have crazy winrates Not arguing at all cause I think on paper it should be bad too, but reality is always different.
I have a friend and all she plays is mercy (because that’s all she knows ) and it’s so hard because the people I really want to play don’t do too well with her ( Lucio and Ana ) but luckily I play all support players but still
hard to think of a “decent” support that has worse poke than lifeweaver. even at like 35% accuracy, i do very little damage and i’d be better off just poking with illari, ana, kiriko, bap, zen… like half of them
Lifeweaver + Mercy is so common in metal ranks, great to see it at the bottom of the list lmao
low-key it works in some situations
two forms of saving someone and turning a fight can be scarry
@@SombR3ro it works when your healers can't play anything else and the enemy healers are worse
@@louteez but I can play supports other than Lifeweaver too, it's sometimes fun when you can pocket/save/give high ground to your Mercy and I also have slightly more opportunities to do damage as Lifeweaver, I do see it as an intuitively viable combo, not the best in terms of overall stats, but they do have some great synergy
It makes sense that teams with 0 coordination would gravitate to it tbh
As soon as he sees Moira - metal rank
It's true lol
bazed
Lifeweaver+mercy is definition metal rank special. Honestly I see it more than moira+mercy these days (when I'm not playing support myself) and I see that way more than I'd like.
This kind of Tier list is SOOO refreshing, instead of trying to rank heroes individually that simply DO NOT function in that way; support being the most important role with synergy i believe. You have a list that actually helps people understand the bigger picture, SYNERGY and COMP STYLES. This is so needed for so many people.
notice how mercy doesnt really work with a lot of these
Yeah because mercy is so irritating to play with as a support duo. Everyone has to change their playstyle to accommodate her
It's because she duos better with DPS
She is a really outdated hero and desperately needs a rework.
Rez is just worse than Suzu, Lamp and grip because you don't even get to use it.
Damage boost is strong in some cases, but it contributes less damage to the team than most other supports.
Those 2 abilities hold her back from ever getting meaningful buffs.
Also, Valk is just a worse Juno ult.
@@bigfudge2031I never play mercy and prefer to play with other supports but the point of mercy is to hit higher breakpoints to get the elim not to have more total team damage
@@rileyp3707 on paper yes, except all the useful breakpoints have been removed from the game. Most of the time the boost doesn't make much difference when you take into account variables like fall-off damage, enemies not being full health and the fact the DPS could have killed them without the boost. Now imagine instead of having a 30% damage boost, you just had a Bap shooting the same targets as you instead, that is basically just a 70% damage boost.
The main strength of Mercy is allowing your DPS to hold aggressive positions, but other supports like Brig and Bap can do this better at high ranks because Mercy can't protect the DPS from dive.
My duo and i are zen and ana one tricks and its rough out here but we make it work. When were playing against divers i kinda just sit inside of ana constantly charge 5 orbs instead of peeking an angle, just sorta waiting for the flankers to peek and kill them as soon as possible. It tends to work. Also guaranteeing a free kill off of every sleep because of 5 orbs is really nice
Imagine one tricking zen lmao
@@TheGreatPewpyOne only the true gigachad supports do it
Love to see both Ana and Zen one tricks.
Depending who are the healers out of my boys and I, Ana/Zen is one of the common support duos and we make it work… about 3/4 the time
What rank tho, without context all those Moira comps are broken
@@tibisan3503 diamond
Petition to rename KarQ Archives to KarQives
Signed
Reddit humor
@@fallingemberss Petition to rename it KarQives!
Skip the U and I’ll sign
@@pete9700 done
11:25 idk when this was filmed but I believe the brig/ram armor bug was fixed in the most recent patch.
So I'd take any brig takes with that in mind.
Eh. That armor change was never what made her good tho. Just added to an already solid character.
I don’t think her synergy with another support is too dépendant on that
@@brycenb2994 Definitely. It was an interaction between her ult and one other hero - its rarity kept it from being very meaningful at all.
Especially since during that period, no one was really playing Ram because everyone was on Dva, because of **that** hero's bugged interaction with Juno (which, being the interaction of two common CDs and the effect being batcrazy, was super meaningful).
Yeah it was probably filmed before since he's away from home atm
Ramatraa too?
Hey KarQ! I'm not sure if you are the one to make these graphics but I suggest adding a dark pixel on the outer edges to help separate the images on the tierlist.
Polite, constructive criticism that would help the usability of the information in the video? I thought this was a TH-cam comments section
We hear you. We tried different iterations to make each duo stand out, but we'll take your idea into consideration.
Would love to see a video like this, but what duos work best with what tank!
Did you see how many variations are on the screen? Now times that by 11 because that's how many combinations there are.
20:49 Juno + lw is surprisingly good. I recommend that more people should try lw, he's so much better after the recent tweaks
The only one i would adjust is lw+zen. Lw being able to petal or pull zen out of a bad situation and still heal bot while zen pokes is better than you might be giving it credit for. This lets lw play away from zen so if the supports are dove its just 1 support, not 2. Think of it like a more optimal brig/zen.
remember that's one instance
It’s a really shit comp outside of one comp and that’s a ball comp. Ball, ash/cass, tracer, lw and zen is actually pretty good. It’s not the best ball comp but it’s pretty strong on some high ground maps
Bap/moira on even top of metal ranks is so underrated, it's so much healing and damage that you don't need to give a shit about utility. Your allies don't die and the enemies get oh so easily outpoked.
“BAP/ILLARI” *proceeds to pick the bap/kiri icon and discuss Bap/Kiri 8:19
You might not know since you're a support player Karq but Ana/Zen is HELL for the tank. If the team is properly protecting the backline, you literally just suffer the whole game lol. Basically, makes characters like Hog/Mauga unplayable too.
They get zero value into Sigma and Zarya.
@@viljar55 Sig sure but Zarya is forced bubble herself if any of their cooldowns hit her and realistically has a hard time even reaching them since they play fifty miles away.
Funny, you ranked Lucio+Moira a lot lower than last time which is strange considering its been proven to still be strong in Brawl and rush comps, so I don't see how its any worse now. Plus Juno+Moira, and Kiri+Moria play similarly as well, so I would think they would also be higher. I guess its just the bias against Moira that every creator seems to have.
KarQ doesn't play Moira, so he's not really a great person to ask to rank her pairings. As a high elo Moira enjoyer, I'd rank her pairings in RANKED as the following:
S: Juno, Lucio
A: Kiri, Brig
B+: Illari
B: Bap, Zen, Ana (Ana & Bap are 1 tier lower if you're not a DPS Moira)
C: Lifeweaver, Mercy
I’ve unapologetically become a Moira one trick now and honestly she works BEST with Brig but just fine with every other support except weaver imo. Masters 3 tho so🤷🏽♂️
Her and bap are great too ❤ I main both
None of this matters when your team never regroups and staggers the whole match
“If they have… no ball’s “
Brig+LW: some metal rank tanks play super ultra aggro and that wins games if you healbot hard enough with your main healer cause the red team usually isn’t good enough at punishing. Lifeweaver is definitely the best for doing nothing but keeping rein up as he charges on cooldown. This synergises with your excessively aggro brig, who can end up spending the whole match terrorizing zen or some shit.
Hi KarQ, long time lurker here. Just wanted to say that while I don’t heed many tier lists, I regard yours like a bible; I wait for everyone else to pick, and then ‘just’ pick whatever you mentioned were good compositions. So subjective or not, I adhere yours religiously.
One thing I do miss a bit though, is the comparison of these duos to whatever the opposing duo picks. Most options are fine in their own vacuum, but specifically regarding Mercy (Masters rank), she drastically drops when your opponent picks something just slightly more resourceful. Maybe that also helps with your ranking method?
As a diamond bap main, I don’t particularly enjoy playing with LW. In my rank we are good enough to use our cool downs to save someone, but bad enough to not communicate who is using theirs. So often times both of us will use our defensive abilities, which have ridiculous cooldowns.
I just had a game on Juno where my kiri and I kept using our ults at the same time. I even called mine out. We won the game but we definitely could have been punished for that
Obviously in ranked you can kinda play whatever and be good enough to at least rank up and hold whatever skill level you’re at. Buuuut
This list (at least from your pov) is kinda eye opening to how bad MOST support synergies are. With even the best only being good if certain comps.
Almost reminds me of tanks synergies and how extremely hard it can be to win with the wrong tanks. But no one really blames supports for having terrible synergy as long as they have 10k healing and the fewest deaths
As a brig main I swear if they nerf her when she’s one of the most balanced heroes…
I can see a nerf to 200 shield health from 250
@@NatDaHomiethey’d do 225 before they do 200. A 50 hp nerf is much larger than you may think.
Im gonna guess they'll revert the instant burst heal from packs.
Reminder, if youre good enough at your character, you can climb:) at the end of the day its just a game
For karq, frogger and aspen have been proving jucio, frogger just plays like a dive and since juno focuses so much on healing she gets her ult faster!
Lifeweaver + any support should automatically be put in the yellow category. Same for mercy. Ana+Juno should also be bumped up. Arguably the second best support duo in the game if we look at the comp scene
Lifeweaver is different from how he was at release. He can actually be pretty good in the right team comps.
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 he’s still bad. You can make him work, but he would never work in the pro scene. He doesn’t have any good comps. He has comps that he works in, but there’s always a better pick
@@JayFox128 Well yeah, but we aren't talking about the pro scene. That's applicable to like 0.001% of the player base. This is about normal ranked games (gold to diamond).
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 well the pro scene is how overwatch is played at its best and purest form. This video talks about compositions and supp duos not individual performance. Individual is how ranked is played. If we’re talking about compositions then we look towards the pro scene. Karq bases a lot of his picks off of comp. Lifeweaver isn’t good pick. He should always be in the yellow tier. The tier that literally is for comps that work in ranked but lack natural synergy.
@@JayFox128 This video is about general support duos. If this was about the pro scene then KarQ wouldn't have placed LW or Mercy above red. Honestly, if this was about the pro scene then like 80% of these support comps wouldn't be past yellow. Proper team composition isn't just something that's only important for pro-play, it's something that all tiers will experience to some degree. A plat team running a Kiriko-Lucio dive is going to do better than an equally good plat team running a Moira-Lucio poke.
Ana + Juno is a little underrated here
I wouldn’t say it’s S tier but at the very least it’s better than Illari + Lifeweaver..
Everytime Im on a winstreak it is almost always ended because I’ve got a support who only plays either mercy or moira. I know theyre easy. I know theyre meant to bridge the skill gap. But at some point these players have to play someone that gets real value and utility
I disagree, they don't have to. Overwatch is a game, and for the majority of people the purpose of games is to have fun, and take a break from your work or studies, a hobby might I say. Some people just enjoy playing just Moira and just Mercy, it's really not about the hero being easy or not. Not everyone wants to climb, or learn new heroes even if they play ranked, and you just have to live with it. I get it, it is frustrating from time to time to get people that don't play the game like you want them to, but if you have been on a winstreak, one loss isn't going to make or break your rank. If you are a good player, you will climb, end of story. Let people play what they want, it's not that serious, and if it is, I recommend grouping up with some support players that aren't just playing Mercy or Moira, then it's a lot more likely that the one-tricks will be on the enemy team.
Seriously, just let others play the game like they want to, and stop worrying about other players' hero choices. That brain energy can be redirected into something more productive, like further honing your skills.
@@mx.lanpas if you have fun playing moira or mercy thats fine but you’re also a glue sniffer. Both heroes suck, pick something else
@@RustyRantsI think Moira is genuinely good albeit a newb hero
@@thomashigginsmusicall she can do is heal and dps. And she doesn’t even do damage well, any dps above plat will easily hit their shots and obliterate you, especially after the health changes
@@thomashigginsmusic her ult is strong, but outside of that she offers nothing more than okay damage and heals, and if what you want is good damage and heals, play literally anyone else. bap is better. illari is better. ana is better. juno is better. they all offer good heals + good damage, if not BETTER than moira (Except maybe heals, she has insane raw heals) but unfortunately in the state overwatch is in, raw heals isnt enough. utility is so important. I play a lot of genji, and I watch a lot of support players counterswap to moira to try and kill me, but moira isnt a good hero. fade is strong to get away, but her hitbox is so big i can just shred her before she even gets me to half hp. hero isnt good
People always complain a lot about moira mercy or LW mercy or whatever in lower ranks but like bro... How many of you low rank ana players can say that your team actually capitalises on it.
Funny how all three comps that involve only the supports that came out on launch are in the bottom tier
You're the biggest Moira hater ever.
21:45 Juno Lucio is fun with a good queen brawl though I am only in diamond/masters lobbies so there are plenty of positioning mistakes to speed on and take advantage of
Love playing the combo of Lucio + Juno.
I love juno so much. She feels like the kick in the ass my passive teammates need to actually try and team fight
Some points for heroes based on how many good comps they have, kinda, basically. Suboptimal = -3, Flexible and Decent = 0, Really Strong Few Comps = 3
Shows how likely it is that when you pick a character, the other character you play with is someone you can work with well. Higher score = Better odds
Ana: -3
Bap: 9
Brig: 0
Illari: -2
Juno: 3
Kiriko: -2
Lw: -8
Lucio: -8
Mercy: -16
Moira: -16
Zenyatta: -11
I know this is support duos but I’ve been playing a lot of Juno and I love playing on a team that has a rein. Speedy rein is actually a menace. Dva too. Just please don’t pick doomfist 🤣
Excuse me what. Mercy Ana.. and the Mercy just ignores the Ana and “pockets” the DPS doing their own thing? That sounds like some metal rank stuff. The Mercy should know once Ana is dead she’s next there’s no one to cover her. If the Mercy doesn’t help the Ana in times of need then they’re a bad Mercy player. The pair isn’t that bad. The enemies will devote a lot into killing Ana and Mercy can back her up and win the fight possibly and revive her. Or vice versa and the Ana can pocket her while she escapes and buys time. Depends on natural cover etc too but it’s not that bad.
LW Ana is also pretty underrated. Most LW players are just bad and don’t cover their co-support enough. He can bail her out any time and play as an extra safety net backline. So if they wanna kill that pesky Ana who keeps nading them, they have to get through LW too.
Also ILY but IDK why you keep saying Tree of Life is reactive when it gives over health. It’s a stationary Brigitte ult that pumps healing. It can be used proactively to give everyone +100 HP in a team fight, you’re dead wrong on LW tree of Life.
Imagine tracer harrassing the ana. Mercy goes to heal ana. Ana has to fight tracer to make her go away. Who is helping the rest of the team? Other supports like brig, kiri, juno can help make tracer go away AND help ana live in the moment.
@@sawah765 And what the heck are the DPS doing if not helping peel and getting rid of flanks? They just let their support die? That's not a matter of what a team comp can do, that's a matter of skill and awareness at that point. Juno can speed Ana out, for how long? Tracer can just peel away and come back, the team has to help Ana sooner or later.
I'm not saying Mercy is as good as Juno with Ana but it's not AS BAD as he said. Like he made it sound like all Mercy will do is pocket one singular DPS or both DPS and neglect the rest of the team when that is not how the game is played.
When discussing such topics, we assume everyone is a top 500 player playing the characters to close perfection, otherwise it wouldn't be fair. This is not to say the Ana will hit the Sleep Dart 100% of the time but they will at least do stuff that makes sense in high level of gameplay.
@@whateverlol93 Ana mercy is bad at higher levels, it's okay at lower levels. She can't heal ana thru multi hero dives, she can't pressure flankers to prevent them from going for Ana.
Compare to zen or brig or even illari. Brig/zen tend to play close to Ana when paired with her, Illari goes off on her own side quest as a DPS. Illari still helps Ana more than Mercy does (even though she's not even in heal range) because she shoots people before they ever think about going for Ana.
I think high ranked mercy's were more willing to sacrifice their ana than lower ranks. They still heal up chip damage so she can get back to peeking, but if someone's actually on top of ana and ana doesn't have nade, there's no point trying to help her as mercy. Just try to help others get elims as a trade. I said past tense because there's not many mercy players in GM anymore.
Yes the most consistent value ive been getting from tree has been to place it on the point at the start of the fight to fight around, since the over time value of it is much greater than the immediate burst, a little bit like valk.
OMG I WAS JUST WATCHING YOUR SEASON 6 VIDEO I LOVE YOUR MAKING ANOTHER ONE I LOVE YOU KARQ GOAT SUPP🙏🏼
Somewhat, but no so hot take: If 2CP still existed as a competitive game mode, Lifeweaver would actually be good.
08:19 Bap and who now??
18:29 who and Mercy?? lmaoo
Please put a space between each pairing. The chart is very difficult to read
Zen main hate mercy otp with a passion
Yoshi's island
Ana Zen and Ana Illari should be much higher
Lifeweaver + Mercy is SO awful, you don’t have any rights to complain about your team losing if you’re actively going out of your way to put your own team at a big disadvantage 😭
Moira is so shit man she needs a game changing buff
Bro all I get in my ranked games is mercy and I know whatever rank I’m in is on me but having a mercy every single game that constantly dies and never revives the right person is really frustrating sometimes and makes me feel so much worse when I have a bad game and and still some how have better ultimate usage and healing output
Where was illari+Illari and Bap+Bap?
Imagine double Illari and suddenly you have to deal to 2 supports + 2 Lifeweaver pockets(Ehm Pylon)
Judging by how much trouble you were having with rating lw pairs, id recommend playing some more lw. Hes actually a lot of fun now cause the last few tweaks made him so much better
How about we avoid playing him as much as possible for other players sake
But he’s still hot doodoo sadly
@olecorby6062 everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I really would recommend trying him out again. He's much better than most players think.
@@Thudd224 if he was good he would be played in high rank. Deadass if their was a ban system in the game he’s first pick
@1mRAO I don't care that people in high rank don't use him. I enjoy playing lw & mercy, and lw is easier to to get value at the moment. I thunk He's fun to play.
Man, Lucio + Lifeweaver at the bottom? I think it's actually pretty good. Lifeweaver supplements Lucio's lack of healing and range and has an easy out button for if the engages start going south. He's also survivable enough that you can still put up a fight if the enemy team decides to dive you. Lifeweaver excels at enabling a highly aggressive comp and Lucio excels at enabling and being that highly aggressive comp. Lifeweaver + Mercy though, yeah complete trash, but it lets me play some Thornweaver so at least that's fun.
Idk where this misconception that Weaver is good in brawl comps came from, but he's pretty bad in them. He's just a super defensive character, you shouldn't play him in aggressive comps.
Juno mercy is one of the worst in my experience, but then again it’s just me.
Tbh I think Lucio-Illari is worse than Mercy-Lucio.
Also Ana-Zen is not that bad.
YES FINALLY THANK YOUUUUU
Stop saying Moira got buffed. She’s practically useless in this meta with only 225 hp.
Wow, so Moira is the worst support?
Also sad because I feel like Brig will get nerfed, Im guessing theyll revert Repair Packs back to 6 seconds? Rally ult cost increase?
As a Moira main and GM achiever. Disappointing 🤧
You Top500ers And your Ana/Brig.... I wish us normal people could play these two... 😢
Juno + Moira is terrible
Isn't it kinda late for this video? There's like 10 days left in the Season lol
Eh, unless there's some massive meta shift things wont really change that much for supports
@@D-Doc-C you mean like the beginning of the new season? 🤣
@@WindReiter10 Yeah, theres been seasons where the meta was basically the same as it was before the patch
@@D-Doc-C ok
I really like Juno’s kit but I still think she could be tweaked a bit, I do think she looks to be over performing. Maybe lower torpedo burst but let her shoot during windup, and holy nerf her ult. That thing is a free fight win, better than kitsune with its value imo.
Funny to see the brig+ Lucio placement so low, because I would bet brig + Lucio has a really high winrate. According to over buff these heros both have crazy winrates
Not arguing at all cause I think on paper it should be bad too, but reality is always different.
But you play one or the other in most comps, never together. The reason they have high win rates is because they pair well with the other supports.
6 seasons later and we still can't pronounce Illari's name right.
I have a friend and all she plays is mercy (because that’s all she knows ) and it’s so hard because the people I really want to play don’t do too well with her ( Lucio and Ana ) but luckily I play all support players but still
Ana Zen being bottom is just objectively wrong. It is literally still run by pro teams in maps like Rialto, Busan, and Circuit.
.
Im sorry but lifeweaver poke is dogwater
Nah its just a skill issue on your part
It’s actually good, which is why it’s dog water. It’s so annoying to play against.
hard to think of a “decent” support that has worse poke than lifeweaver. even at like 35% accuracy, i do very little damage and i’d be better off just poking with illari, ana, kiriko, bap, zen… like half of them
I hope every support main watches this and instead of saying dps or tank diff realizes how important having synergy with your other support is.
team hero ban voting needs to come to ow so we can ban mercy
Yooooo
brig mercy is definitely not bottom tier....
It is
@@Kendaroo its not. never said its high tier its just not bottom.
75 views bro fell off