Marvel Is In Crisis
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- Variety recently published an article highlighting a series of problems faced by Marvel and Disney in recent years. From production delays on Blade, a crisis in the VFX department, The Marvels underperforming, bringing back original actors to mark the return of Iron Man & Captain America plus the introduction of the X-Men and Fantastic Four. We break it all down here in an exert from our podcast The Weekly Planet
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Bringing back the original Avengers would honestly make me even less interested in the upcoming Avengers movies than I already am. The ones who aren't around had their stories wrapped up, let them go. But honestly, I've always felt that the Kang and multiverse nonsense was all just to facilitate bringing the X-Men into the MCU without having someone "create" mutants, all with the added benefit of allowing fanservice, so it's all just noise to me.
They didn't realise that The X-Men having a separate universe was a blessing
Honestly it pretty much defeats any emotional impact left by Infinite war and Endgame if they do that. Like I don’t get why they can’t let a character be at rest they had an impactful send off. don’t ruin it bringing them back in the hopes it regains a fanbase because that just screams lazy ass writing
It doesn't help that any novelty the Avenger films might have had had before would likely not work again, as it doesn't feel as special anymore.
I just think superhero movies as blockbusters/multi movies per year is nearing it's close, we've seen it for over a decade now and they're running out of gas even more than they were before.
@@LilyApus They'll always have a place and you'll get something special from time to time that shakes up the film industry like the Spider-verse films or the Dark Knight, but superhero content in general will likely go back to being more niche as a new trend grows. I think Video Game adaptations might be the next new thing.
Did you know in the Variety news article, Johnathon Majors described that through the use of focus groups, he discovered that the overriding feelings longtime fans had for the franchise had slowly turned into disappointment and sadness. He also described how top executives did not believe this would affect their profits, with many plans being made to focus not on growing the consumer base but harvesting their existing fanbase for as long as possible. He has since coined this phenomenon as the "Blue Harvest"
You son of a bitch! I fell for it and I loved it 😂❤
he's done it again folks!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
There were also rumours that there were major conflicts between the leads of the majority of the films. These conflicts were known as Star Wars
He worked all week for this
The MCU did something I once thought was impossible: they created a massive shared universe that’s just like reading the comics in late 80s/early 90s. The downside is, this also leads to overexposure and brand glut that almost killed comics in the late 90s and nearly led to Marvel Comics bankruptcy. The same problems they’re having now happens in the comic industry.
I was thinking about this earlier! The parallel is insane ~
We’re you there?
How to kill comics 101: make variant covers. Raise prices two times a year. New #1s every two months. Letting the artists make business decisions.
The bastardization of characters is also a precedent found in comics. Ms. Marvel (before she was Captain Marvel) and She-Hulk were very popular characters in the comics. Then the comics ruined them, and the movies took _those_ unpopular comics as their reference material.
@dearthofdoohickeys4703 That's unfortunately just a product of our time. "IT'S 2023!" Even though there's no substance and devoid of heart
@@skaetur1 oh I was right in the thick of it. And marvel giving everybody a high budget CGI heavy movie/show regardless if it’s even asked for by fans reminds me of every character getting a hologram cover solo series. I’d also argue DC/WB is doing classic DC comics antics of inconsistent timelines that require semi regular reboots and way too many versions of Batman.
This isn’t just an MCU problem, it’s in most every bit of media at this point… it’s not story telling, it’s not art, it’s content.
And it’s being controlled by a few execs who know nothing of the material or the craft, following an algorithm and appeasing bottom lines.
No one is making something they WANT to make, their producing product they’re told to make.
From movies, streaming shows, video games.
No, they are making what they want to make. Its just they want to make garbage because they are delusional and have no grip on reality - or are just very good at lying to themselves.
Yep this is it
This is why even with it's faults. I loved the Creator
Check out my MARVEL and DC universes
And yet it's still indeed, a Marvel problem
I watched Wandavision, Loki, some of What If, and then it just became too much. Watching all those shows and movies started feeling like a chore, and I tuned out.
I think i watched all of these too.. I literally need a personal assistant to put together what ive missed and how i can catch up, and how long that would take. More importantly, is it worth it.
Honestly I tried Wandavision but lost interest halfway through. Didn't bother with the other shows. It just became overwhelming and unnecessary.
@@Missjunebugfreakhonestly for the best, the plot started sucking towards the end.
I see a lot of comments like this and it feels similar to how I ended up abandoning the arrowverse, especially as a non-US viewer who wasn’t getting shown episodes of the various shows in the intended order, I just eventually found it too hard. But I’ve never felt like that with the MCU, if anything I’m like “oh I wish there was more of that” (I appreciate I’m in a vanishingly small minority at this point. I’m old enough to remember the 90s, if you told me then what we’ve had now it would’ve seemed like an impossible dream. One think I’d really like to see is to not have the years in advance plans all laid out, try be a bit more secretive, I know it’s hard to stop leaks but I think it’s a big part of what’s got in the way.
Watching all the TV shows and movies feels like a prerequisite, rather than a bonus in this era of the MCU.
Even though I watched Wandavision, I walked away from Multiverse of Madness feeling like I'd have no idea if I didn't keep up with all MCU content.
I still have time for comic book films, and thoroughly enjoyed Across the Spider-verse, but you can't expect me to watch two to three TV series to understand the motivations of your protagonists/antagonists in your movie.
The way 1000 Kangs are defeated is if the guy who screamed Rodney is retconned into the story and defeats him.
I swear I was wracking my brain for “When did that guy play Doom?”
The Mr. Sunday Movie-verse is seeping into other realities ☠️
Hasn't he been defeated every single time he's popped up so far? Does it matter how many there are if they all suck?
@@damaark21if every time you mean just once, than yes.
It's still a problem though.
@@ReverseSkeleton I seem to remember Loki and Quantumania. Thought there was at least a third, but still hardly bbeg material
@@damaark21 Wasn't he killed off in Loki twice? I haven't seen it, but I thought I heard that there were two versions of the character in it, and they both lost easily.
Disney was just dedicated to adapting Marvel comics to the point that they've adopted the release structure of comics as well. Spew out something new every single week with no end in sight.
This structure is why the comic industry crashed just before the film industry saved it.
Hearing the stories of the “ideas” people have at marvel and Lucasfilm that are so horrible and obviously doomed to failure just reinforces to me that most successful people aren’t actually smarter or better than normal people, they just had a few good ideas one time and then people put them in charge.
The confusing part to me is how the problems with marvel and their solutions seem to be so obvious to everyone else. Fewer stories, focus on building up characters and making us care about them and don’t be afraid to take a break to build up anticipation.
Thats I think cause you aren’t considering that there is this constant pressure and belief that you can and should be delivering more and higher profits, so this guys are tasked with a truly dystopian thought of making us have Marvel 24/7 to maximise profits.
The guy who says ‘ok, lets take a breather’ is not who they want there cause they only want ideas to drive more profit than last year.
Capitalism ruins everything.
The big problem of promoting people who are good at their jobs is that everyone inevitably gets promoted to the position _above_ the one where they're actually most effective
And of course people can still get lucky or cheat the system too, which doesn't help
Elon Musk shows us ideas people are dumber than normal people.
They just don’t want to stop making as much money as possible to pull back and make things better. Okay products and enough of them to reach a mass general audience who may or may not care about what they’re watching is what they’re aiming for. They want everything to do End Game numbers without the build up or investment but can’t seem to figure out that it’s probably not going to work.
I think it is the classic too many cooks issue.
Where too many people, often unqualified but are higher up, add their own "secret sauce" to the ingreidents.
And sadly when that happens often those lower down the chain, and often the real and qualified creatives, they are the ones blamed for the failure when the whole thing flops.
Which is kinda funny bc that is how and why the higher ups never learn anything about how having their fingers in the pot is what causes issues.
Fantastic four and X-men need to be approached with the exact way of thinking they approached Iron Man in 2008.
Start with half a scrpt and improv the rest?
@@conradlorgar5508they had a plot outline but no dialogue. It's not the same as having no plot outline at all.
Prob turn out better than what we’re getting now anyway lol.
Unfortunately the world, especially the USA has socially "progressed" so dramatically that its almost impossible: everybody is so caught up on delivering a message, ensuring they aren't cancelled or attacked, overcompensating and apologising for everything that the movies from the mid 2000s up until about 2015 could never be made. It would be amazing if they could though
@@kieran10202 this mostly actor said the dialogue freakin abysmal..... end up mostly actor cameup best dialogue and go from there props to rdj , jeffbridges and other actors that time they already start shooting but no script but the story outline still there
We've gone from a smaller group of characters who were distinct and had charisma and a couple of memorable villains. Now we have dozens and dozens of characters, storylines that require 6+ hours of viewing per arc, and a literal infinite number of universes where everything can be rewound and the stakes feel non existent with villains you can't even name or remember. The MCU started with the most interesting characters and arcs and in the years since we've been radiating further and further out into no man's land.
No it didn't. First Avenger was boring, Dark World was mega boring, Age of Ultron was horrible. There was plenty of bad in MCU Phases 1-3.
@@sathrielsatanson666 First Avengers was fun and the characters had good chemistry. It's not my favorite MCU film but just like Endgame, it was a cinematic experience.
@@jaydenboyle7399 Captain America: First Avenger.
@@sathrielsatanson666 Oh, well I didn't read that right my bad. I still like Cap 1 but I think Hulk was not very good.
@@jaydenboyle7399 yes, that's what I am saying. People are talking about Phases 1-3 as if it was only masterpieces.
5:49 This is some good ass editing. You'd never know in the podcast episode Mason gave James so much GRIEF for bringing up a random guy 😂
I wish they would have left the other Marvel brain trust guy, who wanted She-Hulk to be She-Hulk in the last 15 minutes of the last episode becaise she had "earned it."
i miss the Beam waiting for Kang at his house sitting in his recliner chair. with a gun
I’m glad they edited it out, Mason is so irritating imo
How dare you say that about my brother @LXA2008
@@skitster the original Maso? Have you returned?
I don't really get why Disney thinks "oh, the reason we are failing is because the characters/actors from movies people like aren't in it. If we put them in all our problems will go away". And this isn't with just Marvel. All the Disney live action remakes follow the same trend. They think just bringing back the characters they'll make a profit. The writing, directing, acting, effects, message/theme, character portrayal, etc don't seem to be taken into consideration, which is what MADE the characters the ones we love
American movie making in a nutshell.
X made profit
Y was like x but was worse and didn’t make profit
Maybe if z is just x again it’ll make profit?
The main issue here is that this has all become "product" - a bunch of execs making purely financial decisions without wanting to create anything really high standard. There are some amazing comicbook stories that could easily be adapted - hope they look forward rather than backwards 😞
It literally isn't hard, just make good movies.
Invincible shows people aren't sick of superheores, they're sick of bad scripts.
I don't think anyone's watching that for the writing or deep characters though. It's extremely weak in those categories. It's got the writing quality of an average young kids show. It just happens to have gore and excessive destruction which people enjoy.
Same with Spider-verse and The Boys. I'm here for a good story, animation, quality acting, interesting takes on the genre, etc. Them being super is inconsequential to my enjoyment.
What people are over is Marvel's tired, excessive efforts at key-jingling their audience with nostalgia and fan favourites, their expired flavour of script-writing, and the overwhelming amount of B- content that at its core, is not interesting.
@@unicornactual3432 Who's watching Marvel for writing or deep characters either? Maybe it's just actively stupid characters that offend, e.g. who really wanted a bitter wine aunt of a She Hulk, for example?
You should have used The Boys as an example instead
@@whenpigsfly8178 the first captain marvel had decent writing. you don't need academy winning writing, just good enough. I won't even say that. all they need is a focused script. there is a whole lot of nothing in marvel movies nowadays.
I would be nice if Marvel actually wrote a script for a movie before they film. Im sick of hearing about marvel films being completely remade weeks before release.
As for the avengers coming back, people dont want that, people want to see xmen and fantastic 4 but we wont be seeing them for years thanks to contractual obligations.
They do write scripts and reshoots are normal, the issue isn’t either of those things it’s the overall choices being made and the people being put in charge to lead the different projects and the rush to throw out too much content without having time to see if their current ideas are even working
I think Kevin Feige needs to invite the current writers for a rewatch of the MCU and talk about what was good and what was bad and what made their biggest hits so successful. Sometimes I wonder whether, because of it being many years now, 15 years, he's forgotten the earlier films and sometimes less is more.
Problem with having so much stuff is that you almost have to skip some stuff and once you skip some stuff your inclined to skip more stuff. Like I haven’t watched bp2, quantum mania, werewolf by night, ms marvel, she hulk, Thor love and thunder, black widow, hawk eye, secret wars probably more, there’s just so much stuff and once your off the boat it’s daunting to get back on.
I definitely recommend werewolf by night from that list. It's only 50 min and completely stands alone.
The werewolf one isn't bad. It doesn't even feel like a marvel product. Just like a decent horror short to enjoy for Halloween at the time. I never watched the colour version though.
@@jskrabac Yeah I intended to watch it at some point, but just never got around to it. Maybe Halloween next year or somethign.
Werewolf by Night is a diamond in the rough among all the other recent cookie cutter shlock.
Ms marvel is definitely different from other marvel stuff but I personally enjoyed it quite a bit. I'd recommend watching a few episodes to see if it's for you and if it's not then move on it's not super important to the whole mcu
Maybe they should just take a break and reboot with the F4 and X-Men in a different continuity and with a different vibe, writing style and maybe with stakes dragged back down to earth.
(I mean... It's been 15 overstuffed and relatively samey years...)
It just seems like such a perfect opportunity to reset, suddenly having those characters that people know and will show up to see.
I highly doubt Marvel will put X Men and F4 in separate universes after spending all that money to buy them back in the first place.
@@DesX42S I think they should either restart the universe entirely, or just produce movies that make no mention to prior films, and are departures from them in terms of tone and vibe. Make people excited again.
I think they could separate them without changing continuity, like how the 3 guardians movies but without them getting involved in infinity war, which would of probably made them a better trilogy
Looks like they're having a kind of forced break due to the actor strike meaning only one film coming out next year, sounds good to me
spoilers:
Idk if you’ve seen the Marvels, but it might be too late.
Part of the reason I've tuned out is that it's TOO interconnected and everything feels mandatory. Gone are the days when you could skip a solo movie but the crossovers still worked. I never really got into the Ant-Man movies but he still made sense in Civil War because they gave you the basics about him and that was all you needed. And the shows were their own separate thing entirely. Now though? Wanda's entire arc in Multiverse of Madness just doesn't make sense if you haven't seen WandaVision. And it's only getting worse. Ryan George put it perfectly in his Pitch Meeting about The Marvels: "So it's like a sequel to 16 hours of content across three shows and a movie." It's just too much dedication to ask of the average viewer.
This isn’t a super hero thing, I hate dumbass people who think it’s a superhero problem. That’s like saying sports fatigue. We’ve been watching the same tennis, football, soccer. We’ve watch different people do the same thing for a century….. so it’s not that. Things get fatigue, usually because of the quality not how many times you’ve seen it.
Re: 13:42, I think GotG 3 did well & people liked it mainly because it had a simple story: Rocket gets hurt & guardians have to save him. We didn't need to catch up on lore understand this
using the Simu Liu stock photos was a pretty genius editing move lol
I am on my knees! Begging! Please release the fifth element caravan of garbage!
WHET !?! There's a 5th element caravan of gahbidge ?
Theres more you can do on your knees, down there
@@17absolut5th elevator of Karen's cabbage
@@17absolut Sith elephant of Cara Van Garr’s bridge
They should have just chilled for a lil bit after endgame
I think Marvel has just kinda lost touch with what people want. The supply vs. demand has meant way too much content churned out at a pace nobody could consume and remember information. Having now seen The Marvels, that movie also kinda proves to me their versions of the newer cast of characters just aren't as good as their comic book versions.
They've only really nailed (and improved) one character from the comics post-Black Panther, and that's Doctor Strange who is so much more interesting than his more recent comics. Captain Marvel they really failed to understand and adapt, despite some of the best source material out there.
The comics these stories are based on have vastly improved and overtaken the MCU as you’d expect. They’re taking more risks and telling better stories probably as a result of that.
To think it's been 10 years since the releases of Ironman 3 and Thor the Dark World and at one time, they were considered the low point of the MCU.
And they still are. They just now have bigger company, o, hey Quantumania 😂
@sathrielsatanson666 At least they could be forgiven since they were part of the bigger Phase 2 and Phase 3 Arc. Because Phase 4 didn't really go anywhere and Phase 5 is a bit shaky, it is harder to accept a sub-par movie. Personally, I enjoyed Iron Man 3, although more as a Shane Black movie than as an MCU movie,while Thor: The Dark War was a disappointment compared to Thor.
I agree, and they tried to be too clever with all the timeline stuff and multiverse stuff to the point where I have no idea what the stakes are anymore, every film the whole universe is threatened but at the same time any character seemingly can just be brought back now?? And idk what kangs motivations even are. It’s just bloated and disconnected and lacks charisma from the og avengers
Kang is trying to savw his ass from all the other Kangs that want his ass. Nothing complicated about that.😊
The average person is bored of Marvel. The investment is no longer worth it. It’s not a mystery why it’s happening, fans have been saying it for years, but of course they’re dismissed as a bunch of toxic haters. Marvel pushed quantity over quality, and instead of putting in effort to be appealing they said “this movie isn’t for you”. Turns out, not a smart plan.
They let all that success go to their heads. Now it's backfiring on them.
There ARE portions of the fans that are toxic though.
This'll sound weird, but I love it when James and Mason call something "big." "They're doing a big handshake" cracked me up for some reason.
It's so insane to me that Disney might destroy years of set up for Kang rather than just...recast the role. Like if they have no good story ideas for Kang, then whatever. But having Doctor Doom suddenly show up rather than casting someone new is just baffling from a narrative and production standpoint.
Recasting almost always sucks imo. Its very disorientating and hard to look back on
Alexander Skarsgaard said it well. These companies are run by people that dont care if theyre making toothpaste, dog food or movies, it's all shareholder profits and business sense. That's half the reason the biggest movies are uninspiring "products". The other half is us as audience. We're not the film audience that we used to be.
If the films and shows were good people would watch. Loki, Guardians, and Moon Knight were all well received. In the past, if there was a mediocre film, it was usually a one-off. Now most films are mediocre and it's the good ones which seem rare. I'd say the fatigue is more with bad films than any particular genre.
You may say 'well received', but virtually no one is calling for another Moon Knight.
The general public doesn't watch the Disney+ shows. It doesn't really matter how good Loki or Moonknight was. Only hardcore fans saw them. Guardians is another story.
All they need to do is bring in talented screenwriters/directors and try to make lower budget films.
They bring in talented directors the problem is they don’t let them direct lol
Crisis or not, they can always look back at a incredible run between 2008 and 2019 with a spectacular climax both story- and boxoffice wise that will never be recreated again in movie history. I still applaud them for what they achieved 👏.
There were three cinema milestones:First critically renowned supwr hero movie in Iron Man; First multi franchise team up movie in Avengers, and first multi multi franchise team up in Infinity War!
Can't really beat that!
Absolutely. Convincing people to watch over 20 movies over the span of a decade and concluding with an actually satisfying ending is crazy. And that finale being one of the highest earning movies of all time filled with beloved characters and it’s not too much? It’s fantastic. No matter what happens to the MCU, I’ll always love the Infinity Saga.
it will be recreated, just when it isnt forced like warner brothers keep trying to do.
@@matthewmspace Tell that to the angry neckbeards who live on their own dick cheese, as if the world is ending. lmao
@@madrabiddogblade 1 and Superman 2 were critically renowned let's not remake history bub
The regimen needed to get a superhero physique is crushing, and actors like Hemsworth, Evans and Bautista may not want to do that at this time in their lives no matter how big the paycheck.
Exactly. Its gets very exhausting psysically, mentally and emotionally. Just ask Christian Bale after he was done with The Dark Knight trilogy.
one day post endgame mcu may end up being an excellent case study on how to totally mess up one of the largest media franchises ever, just a few years after building it up to its peak. And executives still won't learn anything from it.
There was nowhere to go, it was literally called "endgame"
The Kang/Majors issue is so simple to fix. Recast the role with a super high profile actor. Get someone who’s casting alone would outshine the Majors drama, someone like a Denzel Washington. Getting an older actor like Washington would also benefit this decision because from a narrative direction he could be called the original Kang. Simply say this Kang is more powerful than all the others, we haven’t seen him before because the other Kangs locked him up somewhere to hide from his rule, and now he’s escaped and wants revenge. We start whatever project they’re doing with him by having him slaughter all the other Kangs, and that kind of multiversal violence catches the attention of the Avengers. This could then lead into whatever story they want to do with Kang Dynasty. There, hundreds of millions of dollars saved Marvel, don’t even credit me, it’s fine.
Nah man David Washington because he has the youth to pull off some stunts.
The jury is still out on whether or not he's actually guilty of anything, though. And regardless, the unintended consequence of the multiverse craze is that it actually makes recasting more complicated. You can't just recast someone now without an explanation, the general audience would get confused as to whether nor not it was a different multiverse variant. They've gone and shown all the kang variants at the end of quantumania too, they're all Majors, so it would be a big mess to recast him and it's the last thing the MCU needs right now.
@@KarazolaXMost audiences will catch on just by nature of having the same name, honestly I think even attempting to explain the situation in any way can only go badly. The MCU has recast before, with Rhodey they just made a joke about it. Obviously you're right, innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of pretty much all legal systems, but 'wifebeater' really is one of the worst labels out there and many within the general public are already calling him that. I tend to believe that lying about abuse like that would be far more trouble than its worth, and I think a lot of people agree. Money wise, the smart move would be to recast him.
Majors is staying
It seems unlikely that a legendary star like Denzel Washington would step on board this sinking ship. He'd have heard the unhappy actors and directors talking about their experiences with Disney/Marvel. The incentive just wouldn't be there, unless they paid him enough money to cause the kind of dangerous budget bloat that is half the problem with these movies already.
Its almost like CM1 "succeeded" because it was placed between Infinity War and Endgame, people were told they needed to see it because it was essential to the overall story when it wasn't, and Disney bought a large amount tickets and "donated" them.
have you ever felt the soft carress of grass brush gently against your fingers
The good news is, no one's payed attention post endgame. So just write Kang off.
This isn't difficult to figure out. Political pandering and a row of bad movies and shows is what has caused "comic film fatigue." The classic western would still be popular today if they didn't run the genre into the ground with bad movies. Same with the 80s horror. It takes bad movies for people to get sick of it. And I gotta say, you guys have gone on like the issue doesn't exist. For years this has been an issue since Endgame. When they announced a very unlikeable actress to be the new face of Marvel to head their films into the future, those of us being honest knew this would fail spectacularly. Kang the Destroyer as the new villain without Avengers? A character introduced on a show no one is watching? Kang was a dumb idea after Thanos. You need to raise the stake. Honestly, screw the multiverse. It's already a tired trope. They should've gotten off their rears and stopped sitting on the Fox IPs and went straight into Fantastic Four and introduced Silver Surfer as the new underling villain under the control of the new big bad which would be Galactus. It would mirror Loki and Thanos. Then introduce X-Men for all the inbetween films. They're sitting on these IPs because of politics. They don't want to make an FF movie because they're "too white" and they know if they take the agenda route and race swap everything, no one will see it. Now they want to make a Sue Storm focused FF movie, the most boring member of the team. Now we know what they were going to do with Blade by making him the foruth lead in an all female led film. Why even the staunchest Marvel shill is even making videos about Marvel dying is questionable on it's own. I don't even think The Marvels is the worst Marvel film but apparently this is the final straw that broke the camels back. Marvel isn't poison. Disney is. All their collective decisions on Star Wars and Marvel has created distrust. People don't trust Disney. Period.
are you seriously still seething about Brie Larson being in that one mid-ass superhero movie in the year 2023
@@concon09090 oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Everyone went to watch The Marvels because she's the most likeable person on the planet and they really liked the first movie she was in.
Regards From An Alternate Reality
@@juliangrant9718 when did i say any of that
i have no strong feelings about Brie Larson and thought her first movie was a solid 5/10, i just think it's pathetic that so many people are still yelling about this four years later.
@@concon09090 how dare anyone mention a movie when talking about it's sequel. So out of line and incongruent to the subject. Do you not realise what you're saying?
@@juliangrant9718 i mean you can mention the movie, i just think everything you have to say about it is misinformed and annoying
I genuinely think the way forward for marvel should be to narrow in, in terms of scope right now. We don't NEED another team-up movie, sure it would be nice every now and then, but ultimately by making that their singular focus all it's doing is muddling everything to reach that point, without even having a fully concrete goal. What they SHOULD start doing is giving individual characters or teams or whatnot their own arcs. Take spider-man, and if tom is willing to do it set up a spiderverse-esque storyline that will take several movies to resolve, or introduce the X-Men, and beyond adding in references or nods, as well as making it fit to it being within the same universe, let them go off and do their own thing with a villian that's putting something they PERSONALLY care about at risk. We don't NEED end of the world universe multiverse stakes every few years. Save that for WAY down the line once we've had time to get comfortable with these new and existing characters, and then introduce them to each other in movies where there can be crossover, until it organically can lead to a massive plotline like the infinity saga. Ultimately it would probably make them more money too, as people invest in these particular characters and with the frequency of their arc culminations being able to come more frequently than a big finale saga movie, more investment will come around because we wont be waiting 6+ years to see these characters they're trying to get us invested in again.
They learned nothing from their first go round it seems. Look at the first 3 iron man movies. It had NOTHING to do with Thanos or the Infinity Saga. Look at Captain America, his had even less. Thor, guardians, etc etc etc. They made their stakes appropriate to the characters at hand, and at most, we got one or two nods to what was to come, and left it at that until it finally arrived. instead what was focused on was making stories that actually involved the characters at hand, and fleshed their tales out. It feels like the new direction of marvel is almost copying the DCEU with how rushed, spread apart, and messy everything is.
the problem I see with Super Hero movies in general not just marvel is
1. the era of "Movies never do this and Im excited to see it" is over
2. we had a complete story and getting to that ending was a long ride
3. People have fallen out of love with CGI and become snobs over it preferring practical which there is no reason not to do
4. we have other options besides movies
5. No one knows or cares about lesser characters
6. Especially when they come with woke political ideology, changes to iconic characters, race and gender swapping, the wrong ages etc
7. the costumes look wrong
8. Hollywood is obsessed with killing off characters and unmasking them.
9. Half the people who are involved in these things are criminals
10. constant reboots and cancelations any time the numbers drop even slightly. and also people just hate every thing even when its good.
the idea that 'There's too much" is only because we grew up with so little I suppose an other set of downs might be
1. too much plot to follow every thing
2. plots undoing other plots
3. No final plan from the start too much making it up as you go
Over all you will go a long way bringing back the originals. That was the best part of Ghostbusters After Life and Force Awakens and that's what people want.
You start out well and then you go into the "wOkE" argument. Please do go touch grass and maybe talk to a woman
@@alonsoarana5307 Wokeness IS harming movies Batgirl, Supergirl, Miss Marvel, Fan4Stic, Last Airbender, Dragon Ball Evalution, Ghostbusters 2016, Velma, Force Awakens, Star Trek Discovery, the 1st two seasons of Picard, the Magic School Buss reboot, Kevin Smith He-Man, Netflix She-Ra, Harry Potter, Hulu Animaniacs, The Live action Disney Remakes, The Muppets TV Series, Buz Lightyear, Strange World, Onward, Lucca, Toy Story 4, Dial of Destany, Wonder Woman 84, Teen Titans Go, the Powerpuff Girls Live Action TV series all ruined by there politics
We NEED good shows like Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur Static Shock, The Owl House, Amphibia, Gravity Falls, The Loud House, The Mitchells and the Machines, Picard Season 3, Kipo, Hilda, Gargoyles, Star Trek TNG, the Heir to the Empire book series, Spiderman no way home, Across the Spiderverse, TMNT 2012, Duck Tales 2017.
Woke people need to Rember the message in Mega Mind. The difference between you and me is Presentation
Woke people have good ideas but lousy presentation and no imagination. They fail at the most important thing, getting others to follow them.
If woke wasn't a reason then ALL new movies would be accepted by more people
Solid points but I wouldn't necessarily say people want "the originals" - people just want something that is on part with the level of character and quality of the originals. We don't hate "new characters" as a concept it's just that the new characters writing SUCKS so we have no choice.
@@alonsoarana5307 "Boycotts shall continue until writing improves"
@@teagame1011 I find the move going Public to be made of people who thin k there is only ONE Robin, ONE Green Lantern, ONE Superman ONE batgirl and can only name the FOX Sat. Morning animated X-Men team. and those people, they get confused easy.
I think the main issue is that it's clear they didn't know where this phase was going. Like they're all sort of connected through multiverse concepts but the previous phases worked as lead ups to big events where we mostly knew which characters were going to be involved and what they would probably be facing. After Endgame we sort of know about Kang, if they still want to use him, and we have a big assortment of characters we're not all that certain are going to be having a big part going forward. Like, remember Shang-Chi? His movie seemed to do pretty well. What's Shang-Chi up to in the future? We have no idea. There's no real through line between all these Disney+ shows and recent movies and it's mostly Marvel just throwing a variety of characters on screen and hoping for some good feedback on them.
The key to reviving Marvell is to have a genuinely cohesive and interesting plot that people care about, stop throwing out movies and shows in front of you like you're laying the tracks in front of an actively running away train and plan it out properly
Honestly I just think Feige's over it and absolutely none of the Disney execs have even the slightest clue as to why the MCU worked in the first place. Really goes to show that corporate culture is not even close to a meritocracy. The executives of Disney don't even know how movies work. Disney. DISNEY. Let that sink in for a moment.
I mean, the movies that came out in the infinity saga from iron to endgame was a total of 22 films. Since endgame there’s been 22 projects including movies, shows and specials. It’s become so bloated
Bloated with crap. If it was bloated with treasures then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Over exposure isn't the problem. It's terrible movies and shows that are the problem.
@@juliangrant9718The quality vs quantity argument still applies. 22 movies in eleven years or 22 projects in three years. The only treasures you're getting from that rush are accidental.
@@ironcladnomad5639 This has happened to every genre. The western would still be popular today if they didn't release failure after failure during the early 70s. Same thing happened to the slasher genre in the 80s. All of these genres failed because the quality started failing. Then the opinion comes out that there are too many films like it. That always comes after. Maybe two out of those 22 projects are worth watching (and yes, they're Spider-Man movies). 20 out of 22 failures is inexcusable. That is a lot of garbage people are not watching. We would all be watching it all if it was good.
@@juliangrant9718Yes but that a very large part of that failure is the fact they were churning out far too many to keep up with and thus the quality of those genres naturally got worse even though a lot of the films made were still attached to very trusted, reliable names that guaranteed success for the longest period of time. Its a very simple case of the more and more products you churn out over a very long period of time, the more and more likely they eventually become bad and the consumer eventually gets sick and tired of it. At the end of the day. Dynasties fall because the people in control of them at some point in time stop working hard and end up becoming too relaxed, too lazy, too arrogant and too cocky and thus stop trying to get better.
@@taliamason7986 no one has ever complained about too much of a good thing.
Yeah Xmen, Fantastic Four, Spiderman, Blade, would've all been perfect leading heroes for the new marvel
Yeah let's make them female and gay all of them
I love that Ben and Lawrence just kept using Sam Liu stock images for the executives
MCU is just lazy at the moment. Stories are not as good and the visual effects isn't just as good..
They did it to themselves. This isnt a crisis its an over bloated inevitability.
I think there’s a Thanos meme somewhere here
They literally had the best formula and easily could have done it again. Phase 4(1): have a couple origin movies a few characters sequels leading into an avengers movie tease galactus. Phase 5(2): keep it going introduce fantastic 4 and dr doom(but don’t use him for the villain in this movie) then lead into another avengers movie but with dr doom as the villain and then start teasing galactus more. Phase 6(3(the saga finale)) lead all those movies into another cross over avengers movie with all the characters coming together to beat galactus (and maybe dr doom too if they want to get creative) together. Then after that do Kang or whatever. It’s pretty bare bones but I reckon the writers at marvel could pull off some great movies with a similar game plan
See what that is right there is called a plan. The problem is that Marvel seems to have forgotten what those are.
Every time Marvel puts out a movie or show based on a D-list superhero that nobody cares about, they're in "crisis." Then they put out a movie based on a popular character, and people say Marvel is "back." They're clearly in a hurry to get to the X-Men because X-Men is popular.
I haven't cared about a Marvel movie in a very long time. Once everything became interwoven and you had to watch every Marvel movie and TV show just to be caught up for the current release's story, I tapped out. I don't have the time or the bandwidth for such nonsense. Just make a good movie whose story stands on its own within a two-hour runtime. Bonus points if the third act doesn't devolve into a CGI fest. Extra bonus points if there's nary a skybeam to be found.
I've always treated Marvel as an a la carte, picking and choosing what I want to watch based on reviews and my own interests- never once have I felt confused about a plot or left out because I haven't seen every single thing. It's not like anything from Marvel is overly complex or deep, so I really don't understand this take at all. But it is very trendy to slam marvel right now so go off I guess
I remember when Kang was announced, I thought that was a great idea for the next big bad. After seeing how it's been executed though, I can't bring myself to remotely care anymore. You get one killed off by Loki's clone gf or whatever, and the other by the Wasp. Suddenly on an individual level they don't seem like remotely a threat if characters that far down the list can take them out. So then the idea is I'm supposed to be invested because there's a stadium full of them? At that point they're just the mindless CGI army of Thanos or Ultron without the big bad leader. The most boring part. Really though, I am just fed up with the whole thing now. I can't really imagine anything that will get me hyped for another film in this franchise. If they'd just lay off for 5-10 years and reboot, maybe I'd give it another try.
Even then. At least, Loki set that version up to be an ominous warning. So, he was unaffected by Sylvie killing him, as he knew the outcome. Collapse of multiverse.
But, when we see Kang in Ant-Man. The villain is hardly a threat. That narrative should have been different, with Scott being no match for Kang.
Likewise, Kang is just not as prevalent. For a character who could collapse the multiverse, we’ve hardly seen him.
The multiverse has been a plot point since 2021. But, in three years they’ve done little with the concept.
Marvel poorly structured this phase. Each movie should lead into the next. Or, be breadcrumbs leading to crossover events.
Kang was defeated by badly CGI'ed ants. I'm sure there was a technicality as to why a dude who killed Thor was defeated by ants. But the general movie going public ain't got time for that, it's just what they saw happen.
I'm in the same boat, thought Kang was a great idea and could have been a truly imposing villain to replace Thanos. Then they made him lose to ants...
Tbh, they didn’t fuck him up till ant man. Like honestly, I was so hyped for kang after seeing Loki. They set him up to be this super dangerous dude and how the one Loki encounter is the nicest one. Then the next time we see him, he easily gets beaten by ant man. Like I’m sorry, what. If he did serious work in ant man, I genuinely think Kang could have worked but idk, at this point I think it’s too late
Every time I hear "product" a Mel Gibson circa mid 80s voice in my head says "Can't you guys just call it heroin?"
That would certainly make investor calls sound a lot more interesting.
In my opinion the solution would be to stop spending $300 million on movies that look like ass.
Dr Doom’s theme better be ALL CAPS
I think Marvel is using the writer's strike as an excuse to regroup and rethink their strategy. I doubt the "MCU is dead" rhetoric will go anywhere in 2024 (as the only MCU film due out that year is Deadpool now) but if they change track maybe they can begin to turn it around from 2025 onwards. There are still plenty of pieces in play that can fix this situation, after all.
Make the High Evolutionary a Kang Variant! Best MCU villain in years by a long way. Could have an amazing opening sequence for The Kang Dynasty where Majors appears for the last time. A multitude of Kang variants sit in the council, they each suddenly start to die in ways unique to their variant (one is poisoned, one explodes, get creative with some ebony maw style magic shards, one sliced up by a magic portal) amongst all the chaos, as the council of Kangs collapses in on itself, one stands, walking forwards. The High Evolutionary. He walks into the centre of the arena coming face to face with the last variant, The Conqueror (as seen in Quantumania). “Some conqueror” he says inpaling home with a blue light blade from his own tech. Now High Evo is the new Multiversal threat
*impaling him
The director of the Marvels wasn’t able to pay off her student loans with the money she got paid for directing? Where did she attend school? Space?
“Wasnt able to” meaning she was holding off on gov bailouts
America.
@@cartoonishidealism582 still man, how do you direct a Marvel film and it doesn’t cover your costs 😂? How bad of a loan did she take???
They've had a hard time following up after infinity war IMO, the new characters they tried to introduce paled in comparison (a polite way of saying they were kind of really bad and people weren't having it)
Spiderman's success should show you that maybe there's something wrong with Disney's Marvel specifically because Sony seems to be perfectly capable of making films people enjoy.
No way you just said Sony is better at superhero movies than Marvel 💀 is it opposite day?
Madam Web was so much better than recent MCU movies.../s
I think the most frustrating part of all of this to me is that they had the PERFECT set up for moving forward and they just bungled it so hard.
Basically all the Gen 1 avengers are retired so now theres a power vacuum. The Avengers have no leader which leads to smaller teams with new heroes. With the galaxy destabilized post-Thanos it leaves room for smaller villains (Shang Chis dad, Mysterio, etc) to pop up unopposed at first.
The events of Eternals, Guardians 3 and Loki pretty much play out as normal, Kang starts appearing as the after-credits scene in movies to tie them together.
Wanda doesn't turn villain but is an anti-hero which links up with Moon knight and Blade.
Theres a dark avengers team which is fully government funded.
Multiverse of madness actually ties into the events of Loki instead of retconning wandavision.
Kang dynasty forces the avengers to unite again to face that threat. The story ends with earth affected by the timeline shenanigans which makes latent mutants start to emerge most noticably among the now overpopulated and underserved communities affected by the blip (as seen by the flagsmashers).
Its a LOT of moving parts but its at least Pockets of interesting stories that are connected that work towards another huge even post-kang.
Honestly I could even see it being more interesting if instead of doing multiple Disney plus shows or a single movie they did an anthology of episodes in one series just called "Kang Dynasty" or "Secret Wars".
Ironic how the MCU started by popularising lesser-known characters, due to not having the rights to Spider-Man, X-Men & Fantastic 4 + their rogues galleries.
And all these years later, they're struggling to get us to care about most of their characters post-endgame.
(Shout out to Kate Bishop and Yelena Belova though, those two are awesome).
I hate this back-up plan when what should have been the original plan is so obvious:
The Infinity saga ended. We start phase 1 of a new saga. That means we repeat what we did for phase 1 beat-by-beat:
4 origin movies of big name heroes introducing them to the MCU.
5th movie is the teamup movies
The avengers disbanded after the infinity saga. What did the comics do after the avengers disbanded? They assembled a new team when a bunch of random heroes realized there are fights that no one hero can win alone.
So here's the line-up:
*- Spider-Man No Way Home*
(it's his origin story of the iconic costume, "with great power" and being his own hero).
*- X Men movie:*
after the events of no way home a giant rift in the multiverse opened up releasing multiversal radiation across the world, which activated the latent x-gene in all people where prior, only 1% of the populace had mutated prior. Enough to keep hidden behind government sanctioned facilities like the Xavier Institue for Gifted Youths. Now that there is a mass breakout of mutants that number spikes anywhere from 10% to 25% to 50%. The movie will focus on the fallout of that. The main villain will be Mr Sinister up to experimenting on these new mutants (pun not intended). You will also get a side plot of the US government weaponizing robots supplied by a foreign emissary of latveria. That's right. Sentinals are just redesigned DOOM Bots. . . which are modified version of the Mandroids (tony starks autopiloted suits from Age of Ultron). The end teaser is for that of Mumbo. The start of the movie is focused on Dazzler, one of the normal people who became a mutant from this event. We are introduced to the team through her eyes as she is recruited. We then later see her help in recruiting another new mutant, Spike. These 2 will be the audience's surrogates to the world of xmen.
*- Heroes for Hire* _(reboot, defenders never happened):_
Now with the mutant outbreak of powered individuals everywhere that aren't heroes. . . people are scared. The world has been growing more and more dangerous and now you can't even trust your own neighbor to not turn out to be one of these super villains. Enter HEROES FOR HIRE. When the other heroes are too busy for the local scene, you call us. For the right price we'll take care of any issue that you may have. Cat stuck in a tree, thugs asking for protection money, you name it. The main villain would be Mr Fix. A tech based villain who runs a criminal underground. But he's just the boss, the main 2 Luke and Iron fist fight will be Unicorn and Killer Strike, who work for Mr Fix. It's a low-stakes movie to mellow out after the events of xmen.
*- Fantastic Four:*
After moving into starks old building it is revealed that some of tony's old tech got out on the streets during the transport. Which is how doom got his doom bots, mr fix got all his tech. . . and where the main villain of the movie comes out: The Living Laser. Arthur Parks was a grunt of Mr Fix who just wanted to be someone. Now with all these mutants everywhere, he feels more insignificant than ever. Until he finds the tech that makes him The Living Laser. Finally he has powers, he can finally be someone. Tracking down all of the stolen tech, the reed feels responsible for this and the FF go after him when the found out the tech they released onto the world is being used to rob a bank. Reed wants to help him because his energy levels are unstable and is slowly killing him. Where Jonny (human touch) makes fun of him, which causes him not to listen to Reed and instead lashes out even more. The movie ends with Aurthor realizing last minute he's unstable and that Reed was trying to help. He sees the damage he was causing and in a last ditch effort, sacrifices himself with a big EMP-like discharge explosion to stop the baxter building from exploding. Finally aurthor was a somebody. He's the guy who saved new york.
*- The New Avengers:*
When the EMP went out. It shut down ALL of new york. Including security system at The Raft. Where all the dangerous mutants and super villains were being kept. Now all of them are breaking out and all the heroes from the past 4 movies are split up trying to round them all back up. It's chaos from villains past. Ghost, Crossbones, Task Master (not the female one but the original), The Wrecking Crew and even smaller villains we saw from Heroes for Hire like The Trapster. The big bad is gravatron. A supervillain made by shield during the early stages of the avengers initiative. When he proves to be too much for the heroes, they only win when they work together. Thats when they realize the world needs a team of heroes to fight the battles that no hero can win alone. On that day, they became the new avengers. Earths mightiest heroes. Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, War Machine, Wolverine, The Thing. 6 heroes, just like in the first avengers movie. In this movie, we see the reemergence of shield. Now called S.T.R.I.K.E. led by general ross. He offers these new avengers to become official US heroes _(as mandated by the sokovia accords)._ They decline, blaming government overreach for why all this mess happened in the first place and what went wrong with the last team. Instead, what sets this new team apart from the last one is they are completely independent and self-governed. War machine takes them to one of tony's old new york mansions to show them something. He hands them ID Cards. An old idea of tony's that was scrapped because tony at the time thought it was impractical. This is how they can keep in touch whenever there is trouble. And yes, the mansion DOES become Avengers Mansion, their new HQ.
_Points of note:_
_- Yes, there is a team in the comics NAMED "The New Avengers" and yes, it does consist of those characters._
_- We have seen Xavier vs Magnito too much in live action, so the xmen movie takes place after they settle there difference where magnus and charels are friends again, which, yes, does happen in some comics. This is because they have a plot of land (x-mansion) that is cloaked from the outside world similar to how Wakanda is. They are free to just be mutants. Don't get me wrong, Magnus still wants more but he's learned to settle. The brotherhood of evil that he created though however is still out there and still causing trouble._
_- In the comics, the Raft Breakout was caused by Electro, not LL. . . but we already did Electro in NWH so substituting him with LL just makes sense to me since they are kinda similar anyways._
_-Yes, the villains in the fantastic 4 movie and the heroes for hire movie are technically iron man villains. This was intentional. It was done because marvel has a problem where they have a SHARED universe that they don't take advantage of. The cool thing about a shared universe is that you DONT HAVE TO PAIR THE VILLAIN UP WITH THEIR HERO COUNTERPART! Mix and matching is how you make the universe feel more "real". Like, "truly lived in"._
_- Yes, to me, this IS the obvious solution since xmen and the fantastic four are 2 big franchises they need to introduce. And are part of a team with spider-man, the MCU's current front runner. Technically it's not the "original" New Avengers team. . . but having Jessica's "Spider-woman" is a bit redundant and this lineup did exist in in the comics, even if not the original one._
_- I like this idea for Saga 2 Phase 1 cause then in the next phase, you can expand the team slowly with people like Dare Devil (who was seen in Heroes for Hire and The New Avengers movie) and Moon Knight. Which is what Phase 2 did with Ant Man and Dr Strange. I also like it cause in Avengers Mansion we can have the iconic poker night with The Thing and the rest of the new avengers where Ben (thing) complains that wearing a mask in poker is cheating, referring to spider-man. . . who is not good at poker (doesn't know the rules)._
_- I based some ideas from story beats in classic beloved animated works like Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes, Xmen Evolution, Iron Man Armored Adventures and even Ultimate Spider-Man (I personally didn't like that last show but shush). . . so if some of these ideas sound familiar to you. . . congrats, have a cookie, you are well cultured._
_- I feel like Phase 2 of Saga 2 could also setup midnight suns with people like Blade, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and some others (like maybe Night Crawler). A team more focused on the darker side of marvel. This would be similar to how Phase 2 of saga 1 setup Guardians of the Galaxy._
I love a lot of the ideas presented here and how Bendisy it all feels. I think using this you could even spin off into a potential multiverse saga, as this new inexperienced team has to deal with these massive threats from other universes and rise to the challenge.
@@NoahRJitil My idea tries to avoid the multiverse as much as possible. The reason they introduced the multiverse is the exact same issue my solution tries to fix. The multiverse was created to "raise" the stakes to "continue" escalating. The philosophy behind my idea was to "reset" and "deescalate". I mean, I put "Heroes for Hire" in for a reason. A literal reset to ground level threats. It's as opposite to "multiversal level" as you can get. That's the appeal.
I believe their issue was they wanted to continue and escalate despite starting a new saga. You don't get to start at the end. That stuff is unearned. Keep in mind: Each saga is only made up of 3 phases. Endgame ended in phase 3. We are in phase 5 right now. That means we are in the 2nd of 3 total phases for this new saga. It's half over (we are 66% done) and we still doesn't feel like we are going somewhere, ANYWHERE. That's the problem with the multiverse. It's disconnected. Literally.
The closest I think they should get with that is in Phase 2 of this new saga. By that I mean with The Midnight Suns (saga 2's "side-team", like how the Guardians were for the first saga). As in, the darker, more R-rated side of marvel. We saw where Dr Strange can go with the multiverse. And I think that's a good angle for why it should exist in the MCU.
Anything done with multiverse should be done for the same reason why the ultimate universe was created in the comics. That is to do extreme things that they can't get away with in the main universe, just like how in the ultimate universe, they killed off peter parker. Marvels "What If" franchise is a good example of what to do with the multiverse. Keep it separate unless you want to do something dark and extreme (unless it's for a really cheap & forced cross-over with another film universe, which should still be avoided in favor of just creating them in OUR universe rather than barrowing them from someone elses universe).
Kang isn't a multiversal villain. He is a time warlord. You don't even need the multiverse angle to tell his story. Just look at Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes. He travels back because there was a time anomaly. Something that shouldn't have happened. . . . happened. And he had to "fix" history. It's a time war. Much in the same way how End Game was a time war.
_TL;DR_
_It's just better to keep things organic and the multiverse is AS inorganic as you can get._
"Defenders never happened" a nice fuck you to the Daredevil fans I guess lol.
@@Sayajin3321Nah. "Daredevil Born again" would still happen. That was supposed to be a reboot of the character anyways, remember? And besides, he would show up as a side character in Heroes for Hire, would help with the RAFT breakout in the New Avengers movie AND becomes an official new avenger in phase 2 of this new saga. He's meant to be a reoccurring character the same way hawkeye/black widdow was or like how Phil Coulson was. I'm trying to give him lots of love here. Remember, he was also in Spider-Man NWH.
It was more of a fuck you to Finn Jones's portrayal of Iron Fist/Danny Rand. It was a bad portrayal that could be done WAY better by a different actor in a dedicated "bro" movie with luke cage.
@@Hadeks_Marow Except rebooting the character would be a slap in the face, literally the MCU isn't even rebooting it, he has the same actor and suit.
It’s crazy how post endgame in hat three short years there was almost double the content. It was just too many tv shows and then on top of that most of the movies have been underwhelming. They just need to slow down a and not rush. I think they can recover but they need to stop being hit or miss and be all hits like they used to.
I think the shared universe was very cool and exciting in phase 1 when it was really spare and they were still all weaving it together, but now I really feel it has run its course and having the movies all in the same universe seems to be more of bane than a bone now. Particularly highlighted by the whole Kang situation, now that he has been bigged up to be *the* BBEG across multiple movies and series, and Marvel have put world cohesion as an element we should value, the question now has become "how do they justify removing this guy in-universe." It makes sense; it would feel super anti-climatic if he is just taken out in an opening scene or something.
I would love if Marvel did a big multiverse event that "split" the multiverse as a justification to go to stand alone film, without the pressure of a "main" universe - so you can still have crossovers and shenanigans, but characters can be reinterprited, tone can be different, people can more killy die (rather the stakes of the world can change more easily). What do y'all think? Do you still like everything all interlinked?
i do like multiverse stuff but i think for a mainstream money focused franchise like marvel, its becoming too overwhelming and complicated so now theres major continuity lockout if you havent seen pretty much every film and show
That photoshop of Feige floating on an inflatable in a pool is art.
I mean the solution is they just need to make good movies that make more money rather than making bad movies that make less money
As someone that grows tired of rinse repeat formulas really quickly (I also can’t rewatch movies, reread books or replay games for the most part) I grew tired of marvel films lacking creativity and sticking to boring formula from the first avengers film onwards. It seems like it took try majority of the fan base a much longer time to get the same feeling, but the reality of the situation is the same. It’s not just a flood of marvel movies/tv shows, it’s the fact they are so profit motivated they don’t allow their directors any true freedom to express their individual styles. For instance Sam Ramis effort had maybe 2 scenes in which you could tell it was Sam Rami, the rest was board room marvel direction.
There was always room for humor in Marvel projects but it became heavily goofy with little feeling of weight or stakes. Disney milking the ip and pumping out projects that don't appeal to many.
I find it's hard to care, when they have so many ways to resurrect dead characters, there are no consequences to any death. Nothing matters. I remember going to the cinema some time after Infinity War was released. Black Panther was showing on another screen, Chadwick Boseman lived in that one, and I knew even then he died in Infinity War!
They killed half the universe, and brought everyone back who wanted it... No consequences, no emotional engagement from the audience. Pile that atop the dreadful writing, and it was inevitable. However, that doesn't mean they can't craft a good film, it's just not going to need a sustained crop of successful releases.
I appreciate that you guys had actual talking points instead of just calling disney woke again
It is though
@@elcharrua1063that's not what makes the movies bad, also woke can literally mean anything.
@@Theye101499cmon bro you know what woke means. Toxic delusional social rhetoric pretending to be compassionate and conscientious. And it is a huge problem in media because it has become more important to make something woke than it is to make something good and successful.
Are you talking about the right channel? They don't call Disney woke for the sake of it.
@K.C-2049 You miss the point of what creators are saying. White characters are getting worse treatment from the films industry for being white men and its obviously happening. I'm afraid you are ignorant if you can't see it.
I'm curious to see how the MCU handles the X-Men. So far, they've mostly focused on heroes which didn't already have good movies (spiderman excluded), so they were somewhat free of expectations. But some of the X-Men movies are really well-liked. How will the MCU fare when they are faced with comparisons?
I don't know why it's so hard to believe what may have happened to Blade when we all know what happened to the live-action Witcher series. I imagine it was, unfortunately, a similar situation in regards to the story and presentation.
Thankfully one piece Netflix had the original author involved otherwise japan would have war with Netflix rn
You talked about Dr doom and bringing back RDJ. Totally nailed it 8 months ago 👏 👏 👏
"too much of a good thing"
No it just stopped being good.
Can we just have Captain Marvel for one more scene that being Rogue stealing her powers when they set up Xmen. You be a great introduction for Rogue.
Something I’ve noticed about the difference between response to MCU wins and losses versus Star Wars wins and losses is the attitude towards the show runners and writers - if a great MCU thing comes out that everyone loves it’s celebrated as proof of Kevin Feige’s genius and dedication, but when a poor MCU thing comes out people forget that Feige signed off on it and go straight to blaming the writers and actors. Compare with when a great Star Wars thing comes out, it’s celebrated as a product of great writers and producers, as opposed to when a bad Star Wars thing comes out, it’s bad because Kathleen Kennedy was in charge. Just an interesting oxymoron that I think says quite a lot
I don’t entirely disagree! Feige has definitely gotten a pass with a more recently-proven track record. But I’m definitely also starting to see cracks. Especially with him now rumored to be gunning for Kennedy’s job.
Fans have noticed Marvel’s shortcomings.
I think with Star Wars, the fan base is just… angrier. “More passionate”, maybe. Cuz Filoni has gotten HEAT for Ahsoka in the comments of a lot of related coverage. Kenobi had more writers and they got lost in the shuffle. Favreau hasn’t been immune to some criticism, either. Granted, Kathleen Kennedy is always the lightning rod, and it usually lands on her door in a shittier, more fiery way. Plus, don’t forget that JJ Abrams got absolutely lambasted for his Star Wars movies. And Rian Johnson didn’t come away much better, really.
It’s because Fiege has made one of the greatest cinematic universes and proven that he’s a capable producer, so we’re more lenient on him. Kennedy failed in making a trilogy so bad the fanbase still hasn’t recovered even after 6 years, so they’re very harsh on her.
You're just completely making this shit up. The actors and writers are what made the MCU what it is today, and I have never once heard anyone say anything to the contrary. I think you're looking at Feige standing on a stage getting cheers and just inferring that this means we're all praising him as the next messiah or some shit. We also blame writers and actors when they do a bad job at writing or acting. A bad performance is the fault of the actor, just like a bad car repair is the fault of your mechanic, same with writers. The new Star Wars films were shit on from top to bottom. The actors and writers of those films, if anything, were given the vast majority of the blame for those movies being shit, mostly unfairly, but still.
You're confusing Twitter morons with the entire of the human race. It's a classic mistake of many people who spend too much time online.
For what it's worth, I'm a relatively large Star Wars fan and I've never even heard the Kathleen's name before now. All the hate I've seen gets piled onto JJ, Rian Johnson and Disney in general.
I think you are right. If you are going to destroy franchises you better not have boobs or you will never get away with it.
Marvel. It's like when a bunch of people are doing coke at a party then the coke runs out but they still try to keep hanging out. Just a weird bummer.
That Doom bit aged well lol
Coming back to this video 9 months later and it has aged very well lol
1. Fatigue was naturally going to happen. We have been in the superhero era for the last what? 15? 25 years? Kind of started anywhere between Blade in 98 and Spider-Man and then got a 2nd wind in 2008 with Dark Knight and Iron Man and then went into overdrive post The Avengers in 2012.
2. Oversaturation. This is too much even for some die hard fans.
3. Arguably the quality has dropped partially because there is so many projects. This just increased the feeling of fatigue.
These fads are meant to last. Superhero flicks will never go away entirely, but they might not always dominate the cultural conversation. I think we are realizing or remembering just as niche this genre still is and like they said, you can’t use the casual viewer. You don’t make 250 million dollar budgeted flick for the super fan.
Sorry aren’t meant to last.
No, we're not tired of Superhero movies. We're tired of awful movies with no substance, no stakes, no interesting character arcs, no interesting heroes or villains. In my own opinion, they have ran the entire MCU into the ground, and I don't see how they could ever get me hyped again. And I used to follow every single movie and TV show religiously up until Endgame. But if a new company announced a complete reboot of Thor, Captain America, Superman, Batman, The Flash, Turtles... I'd be insanely hyped, and I'd be in the cinema on opening day!
We're not tired of Superheroes. We aren't interested in what they've done with the MCU in recent years. Or the DCEU so far, for that matter. But I'm still holding on hope for the Superman movie
Number 3 is *really carrying the team* there I see...
Clearly Marvel still thinks the problem is quantity and not quality and so their problems will continue.
The mcu fatigue is just too strong at this point and the inconsistency of mcu release quality isnt helping.
We've gotten to the point where people would rather watch anti/ alternative hero things like invincible, sandman or the boys which i think is a good thing for smaller ips anyway
But it isn't fatigue because we were tired after Infinity War. It's "fatigue" because they've been churning out repetitive content that ranges from Mid to Awful. All our favorite heroes have been (naturally and respectfully) phased out, and are replaced by newer ones. But most of the new ones aren't that likable, and they don't have growth arcs, their movies never have high stakes satisfying climaxes. They're all pushing their new political messages, like having zero romantic interests in the movies, instead of actually writing good stories and interesting villains.
Taking a break after Endgame wouldn't have solved this. They had a golden goose with the MCU, but then they handed the entire ship over to an entirely new crew, which unknowingly steered it directly off course towards an iceberg. And no one in charged seems to have caught on yet, that nothing they've put out since Infinity War/Endgame has been universally liked. Every new property receives harsher criticism than the last, but none of it reaches the people that need to hear it.
Dunno why, but the "Like the hat!" line and edit cracked me up!
Like many others, I pretty much lost interest after Endgame (or No Way Home). It's completely stale now for me, all the stories are the same at face value - the TV shows aren't great, the movies have been terrible. I didn't think they could do worse than Quantumania but The Marvels managed to prove me wrong. Anyone who is still clinging on, I admire your perseverance.
I think its tired using a carol danvers brie larson photo and a big bold proclamation of how its all crashing down. More accurate is to paste a bit fat photo of bob iger and Kevin feige.
I also love how companies are ignoring due process and nobody has sued them into a crater yet.
Nice to see a video not from your podcast (no offense I understand why that’s often the case) but seeing a video like this reminds me of past Mr. Sunday Movies videos
i regret to inform you that this is from the podcast
@@concon09090 :(
@@concon09090:((
That short you made a few months ago has aged so well! Like milk poured out on the pavement right next to the garbage during the summer. 😂
Here's a thought. DON'T bring anyone back. Just write GOOD stories and execute them well. Content is king. Period. Don't have a smooth-as-butter polished golden script? Nothing gets greenlit. The end.
They have 70 years of storys to work with the problem is they want to take it and warp it to “their vision” just make the writers shut up and read a comic for gods sake
If nia decosta actually wanted to pay off her student loans she should have written a movie that deconstructs these characters. Breaks them down until we feel bad for them. Fr every marvel character got that treatment EXCEPT these strong boring women. She did not do that. She made a boring risk-free generic shitty guardians rip off
Stop the DEI and find writers who can actually write... Who like the material and understand nobody cares what they want, they're making a film for them, not themselves... Dial down the narcessism and stop changing the canon. It's there for a reason, that's why it's successful, OR NOT!
Whoa there pal, careful with that *forbidden truth*
The multiverse angle is doomed because of its ridiculous & confusing complexity. I understood almost nothing in Loki 2, and it was only saved at the end by Hiddleston's performance. The bright side is it gave them a Majors off-ramp. Other issues aside, his awful portrayal of Timely showed he was not the guy to center so many films on.
They’ve fallen so far into the quantity over quality
I really think they messed up by not taking a few years after Endgame to just plan shit out. It would’ve given them some time to really put things together and it would’ve given us some time to just be content with the story we had
Kang was meah...he's introduction coming in a tv series that you need to sub for, and then a mumpty Antman movie. MEah. Just get Dr. Doom instead.
Oh no you have to pay to watch a piece of media, how terrible 😮
It’s the linking everything to everything else that fucked them up just give us a new standalone xmen universe
My wife and I just watched it, we thought it was pretty good.. the three mains had great chemistry. And if you saw the Disney + shows, it was good to see Monica and Kamala again. Kamala was a joy in this movie. And the villain had a real motivation to try to save her planet while simultaneously hurting Carol for what she did to Hala.. it was a solid addition to the MCU, and I hope others will enjoy it as well.⚡️👍🏻
I didn't mind it, made me liek Carol more, cat scene with all of SABRE was great and James Gunn esque. It feel like a bunch of movies and a Diseny+ strapped together though. It also needed and strong villain and the obvious choice for a Captain Marvel villain would be the one who hurt her the most in the comics: Rogue. Yes Kree stuff kinda matters but it should just be the set up to the portal opening and Rogue popping out and taking Carol's power forcing the Kamala and Monica to help Carol out.
What happened to Shang Chi and the Eternals? Marvel just kinda forgot about them.
Eternals should be forgotten cause it sucked.
Loki ended up being different people and actors from the multiverse so... are they forgetting Kang could be played by different people too!? Think about its weird that were acting like he can't be played by anyone else because for some reason they decided all his multiverse personalities had to be based off the same actor... but I loved seeing Loki being different people. Just have different Kangs come in, they have the opportunity to tease us with different Kangs coming in to take over fighting each other
Ya but the major ones from the comics they already showed as Jonathan majors… they would have to just make up new ones which would just feel cheap at that point… personally if majors wins the case I say just keep him most don’t even know or care what’s going on with that
@@ThePandaSupreme Most of the Lokis had the same name.
Nia Dacosta can’t be called a fall guy because she wrote that film. In addition to producing and directing. She has less experience than like a James Gunn or Russo Bros though , so it’ll be easier to pin everything on her including issues caused by studio interference.
You don't believe Blade was relegated to the 4th lead?
You never saw phase 4, I guess.
This rings true based on everything they've been doing since Endgame.