They've got 80 years of material to draw from. Marvel writers don't have to write anything, they adapt what other writers have already written. Remember how good Game of Thrones was until the point when the guys didn't have material to adapt?
@@CamJames yeah, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I think I will soon agree with you as that is the inevitable outcome of the Disney entertainment monopoly. The Shows are hit and miss but they're new to the series. I haven't yet (other than Incredible Hulk in '09) walked out of a theater and thought to myself "that was complete dogshit." But, eventually your opinion will likely be the norm. I didn't watch this Ant-Man 3 yet, though. But, it might take me a little longer to get there because I am biased. I was learning to read at like age 2. "See spot, see spot run" this is boring. What's my brother reading? So, I learned to read on books like Wolverine, Spider-Man, the Punisher and I have been waiting my whole life for the movies to exist. But, you're right. Dammit, man!
@@danbauer3669 I am hoping that Marvel can nail reintroducing FF4 and Xmen. Having all those characters back in the mix will hopefully reinvigorate the MCU. Also, gotta keep Sony from doing something dumb and ruin Spiderman with their terrible decision-making
I've always thought that catchphrase was kinda weird, because he always says "Ant-Man", no matter who he's actually fighting. Such an interesting character trait for Kang.
I hated the cliche of Janet not telling anyone anything and spending a quarter of the movie saying how she’s protecting everyone from this terrible secret only to reveal almost nothing of interest and have no bearing on anything except to tell them there’s a bad guy
No literally. Hope is meant to be the most intelligent science person ever (which we never even see her doing) and she's clearly interested in the quantum realm but somehow the safer option is NOT mentioning the world-destroying maniac who's trapped there.
There is a great version of this movie where Kang offers Scott a deal with the devil in exchange for time with Cassie. Scott turns him down, being heroic and all... But Hank chooses to take the deal to get time back with Janet
That's a rumour that may as well be confirmed. This movie was heavily reworked in post-production. The ending where Scott walks was a reshoot added last month! I'm curious who was responsible for the change. Our boy Kevin? Who???
Yep this was my frustration with the movie overall. I liked it quite a bit (it's actually my favorite Ant-Man movie despite the lack of Michael Pena), but I felt like I would have LOVED it if it had allowed itself to dive into the emotional core it kept hinting at. Scott has missed the formative years of his daughter's life. But even before that he was a convict, then an Avenger, and while he did what he could to be a good dad while he was around... the fact is he wasn't around, both for reasons within and not within his control. The movie seems to realize this since it starts with Cassie getting out of jail - going down a bad path that follows in her dad's footsteps in the worst way. But instead of letting Scott actually have a realistic reaction to this - concern, anger, guilt - they brush it off with a few jokes, and then for most of the rest of the movie Scott and Cassie - the two characters who should be the heart and soul of the movie - basically have no conflict with each other. There are a few brief moments of her wanting to help people and him wanting to stay out of it that culminate in her speech at the end... but it's nowhere near enough. And this wouldn't be so bad if the rest of the movie weren't CLEARLY setting up a parallel story with Janet. Where Janet made a choice for the greater good that left her trapped in the Quantum Realm and separated from HER daughter for several years, Scott gets offered the exact same bargain from the exact same guy - help me escape and do something potentially horrible, and I'll give you back the time you lost with your daughter. And yet... he just rejects it. Easily. Without any sort of conflict, the idea of working with Kang doesn't even occur to him until Kang brings out the stick and basically gives him no choice. It's like the movie's afraid to make Scott unlikable for even a second so refuses to give him any real flaws, which is crazy because Scott Lang in the earlier movies is DEFINED by his flaws. His flaws are what made him become the new Ant-Man in the first place. Like imagine a version of the movie where Scott is so concerned about the path Cassie's going down, and so convinced that it's his fault for not being there that he actually takes Kang's offer, only to realize that Cassie's actually fine and he just needs to accept the young woman she's becoming rather than holding onto and trying to protect the little girl he left behind. Similarly, the Janet/Hank/Hope side of the movie could have ALSO used a bit more conflict. As it stands, Hope and Hank learn that Janet could have gotten all that time they lost back and chose not to for the greater good, and rather than feel any sort of way about it they just shrug and move on. What if Hope instead actually resented her mother for making that choice? What if Hope actually had... any sort of defining character moments in this movie at all. Like, I enjoyed this movie a lot for the ride it was! It was fun, I thought the Quantum Realm was suitably weird and creative, a lot of the jokes actually landed for me, both Kang and MODOK I thought were great in their own ways... honestly, probably my favorite Marvel movie since No Way Home, and I really appreciated that outside of Kang the movie didn't waste time setting up things for future movies - no useless Iron Heart subplot here, or random cameos from actors playing characters that have no role in this movie but only serve to set up the next one (looking at you Brett Goldstein and Charlize Theron and Julia Louis-Dreyfus), no other Avengers stopping by to wish them luck - it was refreshingly self-contained all things considered! But what was simply a GOOD MCU movie could have been a GREAT one, if they had just let the characters have realistic emotions and flaws every once in a while. It's clear that Marvel is already taking the wrong lessons from No Way Home: the reason that movie worked wasn't because it beat us all over the head with villains and Spider-Men from movies past... the reason that movie worked was because for the first time in a LONG time it let its protagonist have flaws, suffer losses, lose control, and grow as a person. For decades Marvel comics set itself apart from DC by letting its heroes be flawed and ultimately human. But for the last several MCU movies, these characters have started to all feel like infallible quip-machines, and it's getting a bit old, even when the movie still manages to be a fun ride.
Maybe theres a way to make that work, but there's 2 problems with taking the story that direction, we know they have the technology on Earth in order to enter the Quantum Realm again and that would be the 4th time in this series that someone has gotten trapped in the Quantum Realm.
I think the big difference between the set up for Kang in this saga vs the setup for Thanos in the last one, is Thanos had a very tangible goal: collect the infinity stones. We could track them as they showed up throughout the movies and it made it easier to tell what the state of the universe was based on who had them/where they were. With Kang, it’s just a nebulous “I’ll conquer the multiverse” and that’s a very inexplicable concept to portray on screen. Cause he either does, or he doesn’t. There’s no halfway marker or line of demarcation that shows his progress. And then of course, the question is, is it just one Kang or is it multiple?
Plus with Thanos, for the first majority of phase one we just knew "Oh he's out there and he's gonna want them infinity stones!" with him mostly being implied to be doing stuff in the background with sparse appearances here and there to remind us "Oh yeah this guy's still out there." We didn't SEE him going around doing things until his big appearance in infinity war where he had his big day out.
Also, when it comes to Thanos, we had the much celebrated "Infinity Gauntlet" event/story arc. Everyone knows and loves that comic! But NOBODY is EVER excited for a Kang story! There have never BEEN any good Kang stories!! No one has ever run to their cousins like "Man, you gotta read this Kang story! It will change the way you think about comics forever!"
The issue with M.O.D.O.K. for me is that the face looked like it was being displayed on a flat screen in the suit. It didn't look three dimensional if that makes sense?
I’m waiting for a Corridor Digital VFX Artists React video to be made about it, and what they might have done differently to make it work better. I think maybe if the edges of his face were really stretched out and fraying and tearing like his skin was being pulled to cover more area than it was able to and looked like it might tear at any second, that might have worked better.
i agree that the tone of the movie didn't mesh well with the introduction to genocidal villain were going to follow for the rest of the next saga. definitely could've benefited from being a more small well rounded story instead of carrying the weight of introducing Kang.
@@theraVen27 Man U can’t tell you the irritation of the one theme the mcu should’ve dropped long ago and that’s introducing a villain just to kill ‘em off by the end of the movie. Modok , The Mandarin, Ronan , lot of long term big time avengers villains just to die and sell some more merch.
@@Hotrodimusprime also mandarin being the villain of shang-chi imo kinda sucked bc he's iron man's arch enemy and they completely botched that opportunity like 10 years ago
Mason struggling to keep track of just the two Kangs we've seen so far is a good indication of how normal audiences will react when there's infinite Kangs to fight.
My mom and sister is what I would call a normal audience. They have watched Loki and quantumainia and they are confused. They thought he died in Loki so they thought this was before Loki and then when I explained it them they asked me, well then all of the Scott’s we seen in the one scene died? That’s when I realized as a nerd, I can’t even explain most of this shit.
Anyone else think Antmans speech when he was big at the end was a callback to a scene that was cut? “Our word is our bond” seems very random for Scott to care about
Agreed. The trailers made it seem like Scott was gonna willingly team up with Kang to get more time with Cassie before being betrayed by him, so maybe the speech comes from that version of the script.
@Loren Holmes While Scott and Kang do make a deal and Scott does get betrayed, it isn't the crux of the film and Scott is basically forced at gunpoint into taking the deal.
@@lorenholmes1978 yeah the trailers are incredibly misleading. Instead of taking the more interesting character dilemma approach and actually take chances they go the easy route and just make Kang a nutjob who holds Cassie hostage till Scott does what he wants. Instead Kang should have made himself seem like a sensible guy who wants to help and scratch my back I scratch yours type and THEN betrayed Scott at the end making you unsure the whole movie if this Kang really is that bad or just misunderstood. From the jump you’re like, well this dude isn’t gonna hold up his end of the bargain lol At every turn when Marvel could have made a really cool story they go the Saturday Morning Cartoon route and that’s what is most disappointing
The problem with an infinite army of Kangs is that it you have to apply the Law of Inverse Ninja Strength/Conservation of Ninjutsu otherwise the power level would be just to astronomical for anyone to comprehend. The issue with that is when you have a billion Kangs and most of them are going down like chumps to the street level heroes you have to do some serious writing to make the Big Kangs important enough to not go down.
You haven’t seen the movie have you? In this movie Ant Man is able to grow even bigger than Godzilla, 450 feet tall. In this form he slams Kang through buildings, and kang is not phased at all. Ant Man won by being lucky. Kang solo’s a rebellion army, the antman family, and a swarm of 1000 year old ants with mech suits and weapons. And still had the energy to keep fighting and only lost because antman got lucky and slightly outsmarted him. Saying “Kang was beat by a street level character” tells me you haven’t seen it. Because antman is no longer street level. He can wreck all of NY at this point and in endgame was taking down Leviathans in one punch. While kang was tanking those same type of punches
@@king_vision4085 This was meant for like future movies... like if the Avengers films try doing an army of Kangs they will have to power down each individual Kang so that every hero has a chance, but if they keep it limited to a handful at a time it might be more reasonable to have the Kang(s) at this film's power where he is basically unphased by everything. It is like the Ultron army. They technically are a hivemind so they should be the same power/intelligence as Ultron, but they made them grunts in the film so that the Avengers had a big army to bash around.
@@joep218 what’s funny is how many people are crying about how the movie is bad and haven’t seen it. What’s funnier is how many people get mad when someone actually enjoyed it 😂
@@kid14346 no each Kang will be OP in their own ways. And you have to realize the kangs will be fighting each other for superiority and the survival of THEIR universe. Imagine each Thanos from every timeline waging a war against each other to be the last Thanos left. And the avengers caught in the cross fire. That’s what we’re building up to with kang
What would have been chilling is if at the end where they're having the cake for cassie and paul rudd is having an existential crisis if he looked across the restaurant and like in dark knight rises at the end, Kang is chilling in the restaurant and nods at paul rudd
I was honestly hoping it would turn out a Kang was just hanging out in the background of a bunch of scenes after the fact. Like at one of the sidewalk cafés, one in the coffee shop, one at Baskin Robbins... I get why they didn't, but it would be neat
I was hoping he ran into Luis at the end who asked where he been, and gave him one of those long roundabout stories that Scott wasn't paying attention to until Luis says, so yeah I think he's like a wrestler or something he was all buff and called himself the Conqueror.
I honestly thought for sure while watching that scene in the restaurant with the cake that he would look up at the waiter to say “thank you” and it was gonna be Kang. I also thought Kang should have killed Ant-Man and, like Darth Vader in the hallway at the end of Rogue One, continue tearing through everyone he loved and cared about with only one of them getting through the portal back home to warn Earth that he’s coming. I feel like all of these characters are adjacent enough to the MCU that they could have killed off Hope, Janet, *and* Hank and maybe just have his daughter survive (since they’re clearly building up to a Young Avengers team-up). And I think the only way to make audiences care about Cassie Lang after recasting three different actresses to play her would be to have this one bear the grudge and vengeance of seeing her entire extended family killed in front of her because of the machine she built in the garage. I very much liked the end-credits “sense of impending doom” joke but I think that slapping the smile off of his face would have delivered a bigger threat (with a gut punch similar to the end of Infinity War) and we already got the more cerebral “I’ll see you soon” version of him in Loki. I definitely felt like there were some things changed/lost due to reshoots and left on the cutting room floor that muddied the motivation of the Kang we see in this film (making him more or less outwardly evil, as opposed to a necessary evil as James & Mason said) and with respect to whether/how Kang is killed in this film (which undercuts the story of this one being exiled and the audience having a connection to him now) as well as whether or not Ant-Man died in an earlier cut but test audiences or the studio caused it to be re-written.
Before seeing this movie, I had a theory that Cassie may have received a terminal illness diagnosis. It would give more weight to Scott wanting those 5 years back. I imagined Scott Lang actually does the selfish choice and helps Kang escape with the promise to be brought back just after the blip. From there, Kang double-crosses Scott (“you thought you could win?”). The movie ends with Scott and friends escaping the Quantum Realm… but they’ve clearly lost. Cassie doesn’t want anything to do with her father. Hope and her parents are working hard to find a way to stop the inevitable rise of Kang. Scott is alone and we hear his narration… “my life wasn’t suppose to be this way.” We then see the council of Kangs meet. We hear panicked mumbling about the return of the conquerer. Kang the Conquerer teleports in and begins to kill everyone. He asks the remaining few alternate versions of himself to join his cause.
I just wished Scott at the end dies while stopping Kang from escaping the Quantumrealm. I like Scott, but his death would've solidified Kang as a real threat.
Towards the end, Kang starts evaporating all the Quantumverse citizens. Then when the Ant people fight him, he's using some weird "push-energy" and just knocks them around lol. Why not just insta-zap them?
Don't question the socialist ant colony 😂... they are a level 2 society or something like that. Just like modok... I'm designed for killing, immediately gets battered, then told don't be a dick.. dies a avenger looks at Ant-Man as a brother.. 🤨🤔🧐🤬
He doesnt have basically anything that makes him poweful... [perception and manipulation of time] or any of his actual tech and took over an entire universe(quantam realm)this is a de-powered kang and he still op as fuck.
Y’all said it, they need to define his limitations. Finding his limitations will probably be a Loki season 2 or Avengers Kang Dynasty plot. I could see Loki ending in a failed attempt to find his weakness, though
Can I be honest I thought the quantum realm was as small as you could physically go but they either forgot about that or didn’t care and they were still able to shrink throughout the movie which made me confused.
From the first ant man I’ve always had this idea of the quantum realm: shrinking down subatomic acts as a gateway to another dimension, rather than it comprising of subatomic particles. So using my understanding, doctor strange or other wizards could get to the quantum realm using their sling rings as well, it’s just that Scott and pym found a “back door” by shrinking lots. Don’t know if that’s right at all but nothing has necessarily disproven it so far.
@@blue8661 I just remember in the first ant man movie Hank lost Janet in the quantum realm for good because she had gone too small to try and fit through the molecules of a metal plate on a missile. Well I guess I don’t completely understand how all of them had the capability to get even smaller in the quantum realm including Cassie. There’s also no explanation in the movie from Hank or either Janet (who has been in the quantum realm the longest) to why they are able to shrink with no problem at all. It just seems like they tried to hide that plot hole with not giving explanation too it. Maybe later in phase 5 they’ll explain it to more of your understanding and we’ll see more characters in the quantum realm but I think this might be the last movie the quantum realm even shows up. kang is now released from the realm and there’s no reason that I can see for them to back there. Marvel has been getting shittier and shittier by every movie and I’m honestly not expecting any more depth to the quantum realm after this movie
I can’t remember who said it, but the “roof over the quantum realm” is exactly the words I’ve been looking for since they started the multiverse stuff. They treat the stuff like it’s a building, or another planet that they can just walk to. It feels very small and finite when it’s literally supposed to be infinite. It’s hard to base all the world buildings problems on them not understanding it, because it should be obvious that it’s pretty hard to project, while not having ant man get one shot obliterated
Kang the conquerer clearly didn't die, him being sucked into the multiversal engine was escaping the quantumrealm but with no way to aim his destination. Also, while there are a bunch of multiversal Kangs, they are also Kangs from different points in time. The conquerer may be destined to eventually become "he who remains" later in time.
Technically Michelle pfeiffer is the wasp so the title fits. She was even in the costume confronting kang. But I would’ve preferred Evangeline Lilly doing more
They were down there for a thousand years with Pym tech and Quantum tech. If they figure out multiversal travel the Avengers have to worry about the Ant Dynasty
The fact that Ant-Man was able to land a single punch on Kang makes me concerned. So far Kang doesn't seem like an Avengers level threat. He couldn't kill a single main character.
@@ultralm7250 giant hyper-intelligent technologically advanced ants that had 1000’s of years to advance Hank’s already advanced tech and combine it with Quantum Realm tech
@@YouAreStillNotablaze lmao it’s not about power levels it’s about narrative, no one’s going to believe he’s a multiverse threat now that we know he can be defeated by ants. Also just because the problem is also in the comics doesn’t mean you can’t criticize it in the movies, cool it with your whataboutism.
He's a guy - thats all. He's got lots of tech, but once the tech is gone he is still human under there. He's not like Thanos where he can go toe-to-toe with The Hulk in a bathrobe, he needs the tech to boost him up. I expect we'll see all kinds of technology from him over the various films, I do not doubt he'll be a match for the Avengers - largely because he can, actually, be anything at all - you just need to bring in another version of him with the power level needed to beat them.
I liked this movie. But I will say the biggest reveal to me was when the final title card came up at the end of the initial credits and they showed that the words "ant man" are actually in the word "quANTuMANia" which I somehow never noticed before 😭
I think that might have hit the nail right on the head for me. A lot of this movie felt too predictable or like you could see it coming. We all know Kang has to escape or at least be summoned for the next phase. We know that Janet had a past with Kang. However we have known the name for this movie for more than a year-and-a-half, and only at the end credits did I realize that Ant-Man fit into quantummania.
@@RickReasonnz Now that you mention it, she did a terrible job of being a Wasp! Leaving people she inspired to revolt against, never telling her family at all about the dangers of the quantum realm, and overall just being dumb!
Unfortunately I thought the daughter was kind of annoying. The way she immediately wanted to help the rebels despite knowing nothing about them or who the ruler actually was. It would have been kind of cool if she learned that people aren’t black and white through the rebel leader.
not to mention Scott's very good point about needing to gtfo because they have no idea how much time is passing in the normal world while they're down there.
my own personal belief is that the conqueror kang we saw in Quantumania just got exactly what he wanted by getting stuck inside the multiverse-engine. he will probably reappear as having new powers and getting a huge ability buff.
The thing that this movie was really missing is a heist. That's the bread and butter of an Ant Man movie. They heist in the first movie, they heist in the second, the time heist was even kind of his idea. What they really needed was for Scott and Hope to try fighting Kang and very quickly and brutally get outmatched. So the third act they realize that they can't go toe to toe with Kang and they need to steal the time engine without Kang catching them. So they have an elaborate scheme that is designed to draw Kang out of his citadel so they can sneak in. Scott Does an Endgame style Avengers Assemble moment. Super ants are used as cannon fodder rather than deus ex as they swarm Kang's forces and stall the citadel from taking off. Scott, Hope, and Cassie play cat and mouse with MODOK and he absolutely obliterate's everything he touches. Meanwhile Kang is killing thousands and thousands of ants, but there are so many of them that for ever ant you kill 3 more take its place. They start hitting him from all angles, dropping buildings on him and everything. The team finally makes it to the chair as Kang figures out what's really happening and teleports to meet them. Hope and Scott briefly fight with Kang, but again, they are seriously outclassed and he is about to kill them when Janet breaks it up. She tries reasoning with him. This seems to work briefly, but Kang loses his temper and is about to kill everyone when Hank who snuck in separately appears in his shrunken form and throws the engine at Kang with the red and blue discs on it. But it should really feel like they barely make it out of the fight alive at the end.
I would’ve enjoyed this sooo much more than what we got! The third act would have the same vibes as the Rogue One hallway scene except they survive to warn the others about Kang.
One of my issues I expected from the trailers, was that Antman Thrives from scale. The audience needs things they recognize and can relate to in order to get a sense of scale with the shrinking and growing. Within the made up Quantum realm. There were No relative things to scale against. Which made most scenes confusing, especially the "you're huge" scene. And this Kang guy. There is no setup to what he can do. So he just does anything. Like that kid in the playground "I have everything armour" At least with the Purple guy and his Rock collection. You set up his strength, by fighting green angry man. And the magic rocks all had a special name associated with what they could do. Great set ups. Didnt really enjoy this antman. It has been my favourite MCU hero to follow. Disappointed
@@sharnfraser7446 understandable, I'll give it a watch. But one should not have to watch supplementary material in order for a characters powers to be explained. Your movie should set up and payoff what they can do
@@sharnfraser7446 That doesn't fix the problem. People shouldn't have to seek out supplementary comic material to make sense or get anything out of the movie. Its what they tried with suicide squad 2016 and it sucked massive dick. Just grab one of everything and tell people to go read comic books for any real details or story setups, shit bombed for a reason.
My biggest problem was Katheryn Newton. Not once did I believe she was sad, scared, or under stress. Any time she had to be one of these, you could visibly see her smile. It legit kept pulling me out of the movie.
She finally got to adventure with her super hero father. That might be why she was happy. She's grown up now and already is Stature from marvel comics also writers are telling us that.
I think the biggest problem that the Marvel movies have had in the past little bit is the fan expectation vs what the movie ended up being. It started with Wandavision and casting Fox's Quicksilver to play faux Quicksilver and then with Dr Strange and his multiverse of killable characters, it all meant nothing and this movie was set up to be something huge to kick off the next phase and set up the villain and leave us with consequences that will reverberate throughout and lead into the next big event, but this movie had no consequences and didn't mean anything. It was like getting off a roller coaster and saying "yeah, that was fun! what now?"
I mean, in regard to consequences it did introduce Kang the Conqueror, gave him access to conduct his ultimate plan, and has set off the Kang Dynasty to start targeting The Avengers. But ultimately, you're right.
I'm certainly done after this. Wakanda Forever wasn't bad, but since Endgame the most enjoyment I've gotten is the snack-sized bits of fan service rather than actual compelling stories or visuals 🤧
@@marvies5959 what does being an adult have to do with it? There are people infinitely more successful than you that enjoy things you consider "childish". Humble yourself and get off your high horse, you're insignificant as a human being.
Michael Peña should have done the intro in his fast pace story recap and then you find out he was reading the book because Scott was late for some reason and all the parents and kids look confused until Scott shows up. Then Scott finishes the rest of the book.
Scorsese was not wrong. He was just couple years early. Marvel screenwriters need total recast. I feel sorry for Jonathan Majors as he was the only one that cared to do acting in this, whatever it was.
And they know it. All the marketing is "we have Majors!" "Kang! Kang! Kang!" "Jonathan majors!" I mean if that's all you can yap on about maybe the film needs more
the idea of Luis accidentally coming along to the quantum realm would be sooooooo good. off the comedy but also what James mentioned that it’s a normal person reacting to the new world. I could see the B plot in my head already of him inspiring and leading the freedom fighters, with a moment where Cassie calls everybody to come fight kang but maybe the freedom fighters are just too afraid as they’ve gone down that road before and Luis stands up and talks about how much trust he has for Scott and his family. maybe he even tells them how Scott helped saved the entire universe and that’s a little pay off for how Scott has done his part and wants to just be a a normal person but ultimately chooses to do what’s right and that means Luis will too, and he hopes he’s not alone. And if you want to go for style points, you reconfigure the long winded comedic storytelling of Luis to be a bit more serious and somber. another route they could take is doing some of that leading and mingling with the inhabitants of the world, but Luis makes a sacrifice or is tragically killed during the mid act low point that would serve as a real consequence and act of personal villainy from kang and gives Scott a hard motivation to defeat kang. I would almost love it if for a while the ant-family doesn’t even know Luis came along with them, maybe he walks in through the door cause Scott was calling him over for a reason and he gets swooped in. And somehow Luis manages to survive on his own and assimilates with a group of people like the freedom fighters or stumbles upon a city that the gang visit, and Scott sees him and goes “…WHY?!?!?………. HOW?!???!????” and then Luis recaps how he got to where he is through his comedic storytelling. the joke could be that we saw his journey or just the storytelling.
James Gunn's criticisms regarding rushed productions, repetitive stories and scripts being half-baked all feel like his first hand experience of the modern Marvel machine. Fingers crossed he learned from the mistakes Feige made.
@@gingeralebean5375 The MCU started off by utilizing characters that at the time were fairly obscure to the general movie going audience though. They were writing articles about "Marvel Rolling out the B Team" and everything
also if the movie ended w scott n kang getting trapped or spin it as scott sacrifices himself to get them out and saving the universe making sure kang doesn’t get out (like the trailer implied) or kang preventing him from leaving and leaving the movie on a tense mood that would’ve bumped up the movie for me
Same. I think they should have cut deep and killed off everyone but Cassie, leaving her with the guilt of knowing the machine she built with the idea that it could have helped her rescue her dad was the thing that ended up leading to his death… and also the potential death of everyone in every timeline with Kang cutting through that whole family like Darth Vader in the final scene of Rogue One. I have to remind myself that the MCU probably won’t slice up any more characters for a while after the loss of Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow in the franchise, and that little kids going to see a fun movie about a guy that grows and shrinks probably wouldn’t react well to seeing an entire family slaughtered at the end. They only did the end of Infinity War knowing that they were going to undo it in the very next movie. But a savage Kang that was the *GOOD GUY* would really set the stage for what the bad variants are willing to do (if they played it like that).
@@MrJagermeister omg u read my mind COMPLETELY that would’ve been perfect or u could’ve even just had hank n janet sacrifice themselves would be what make the title of the movie about them starting a new in the quantum or something and yea ion think will til they get to the bigger avengers movies which sucks i want them to take those brilliant sharp moves now especially if secret wars ends the way we think w a semi reboot all multiple franchises in one universe just like the actual marvel universe (one can dream) i think kang will be back n probably as the beyonder for that
My favorite part of the movie was where Scott was beaten down and looked up at Kang and said, "please, stop, no more..." and Kang looked down said, "It's MoreKangin' Time." and proceeded to Kang all over Scott. Edit: just kidding, I didn't see it.
He’s a theory: Maybe “he who remains” is actually a future version of this kang. That’s why their goals are partially aligned, with the younger version wanting to conquer the other kang’s and the older version realizing that mission is futile and the only way to save the multiverse is to create the TVA in Loki
I feel this Kang will return. I think he was trapped in a probability cloud, where he will lose himself for a while, yet master it. This may be why they had the scene with Scott. So when Kang returns, he'll be able to quickly calculate attacks by his enemies, making him nearly impossible to beat. This will make him a greater threat than anyone.
At the end, where Scott is narrating again, and has the sense of doom coming on, the people or objects he looks at are a color of purple or green. Kangs way of saying he’s coming
@@michael-john4954 check out New Rockstars video on it. Scott and the team didn’t win. They put themselves in a different timeline. He who remains isn’t there anymore and the new 3 Kangs are letting the muliversal timelines play out
What struck me instantly was that the quantum realm had metal guns/tech. If the quantum realm is so infinitely tiny, the only way you would have metal as a material is that it was full size then shrunk. Having native metal there really stuck out to me
Oh, what about breathable air. Or a sun. Or gravity that functionally works without an orbital spin or a planetoid. Even universal constants like light, heat, atomic attractive forces, electricity or atomic structures that exist compressed into the same space, etc. If "Metal" was the dismissal of the fictional reality, and you forgot about oxygen... IDK what to tell you. It doesn't really make sense to have any form of life exist in a subatomic space, unless it has some kind of pre-existing human species multiverse/universe it came from already, and someone's keeping it all intact. with some kind of bubble/inversion magic.
Everything is wrong, so you can't even pick one thjng and sorta have to turn your brain off. This is a case where you literally can't think about it or nothing works. Absolutely nothing. Literally nothing. Zip. Zero. Choosing metal to focus on is odd when everything else makes zero sense too. I just chalked it up to the comics being weird af, and I came out of the movie with a shrug.
This is a great graphic btw, you don’t notice Kang getting closer/larger and then further/smaller until you rewind to listen to that joke again and BAM he’s doing some Ant-Man shit.
01:55 “If you realised the man you were chatting to in the pub was Neil Armstrong, how long do you think you could go without mentioning the moon?” - Craig Cash
All I'm saying is, Jonathan Majors makes this character so menacing. There's not many heavy hitting Avengers left so idk who's strong enough to defeat him when the time comes
23:40 I did note that in the scene where Janet is explaining the multiverse, and Hank says almost verbatim what Spiderman said in No Way Home when he learned about the existence of the multiverse.
He grabs that giant disc shaped building and uses it like caps sheild....and there was NO mention of that by like any character. Scott clearly idolizes cap, fights like him for a sec, and marvel decides THATS the time not to make a joke?!
He should’ve died at the end. Would’ve made the movie to have more weight and Kang established as a terrifying villain. The epilogue scene when he strolls around San Francisco feels surreal, like out of a Wandavision episode. And the fact that suddenly Cassie able to open portals now is unrealistic. Everybody is a genius now. Doesn’t feel earned.
To be fair, has any lead in a solo MCU movie ever died? If anyone's gonna die, it either has to be a supporting character (Coulson, Yondu) or they'll save it for the big crossover movies.
@@N313GrayFox okay, fine. You got a point there. But your point also makes this movie to have no stakes. They showed the line “I don’t have to win, we both just have to lose” in the trailer and then in the movie it was just resolved in a few minutes. I believe it was a massive missed opportunity. Paul Rudd is 53 this year. Could’ve easily passed the baton to Cassie as the next Ant person, as Marvel also been hinting at Young Avengers. It was shown that she has a good heart and hold on her own both as Stinger and Stature. They also made her a super genius who can build an interdimensional portal in her basement. The movie could’ve been easily made to be an origin story for Cassie Lang’s Stinger/Stature. Or even if you REALLY didn’t want to kill Scott Lang in this, just leave it as a cliffhanger or an ambiguous ending where we don’t know whether he lives or not and whether he was able to escape the quantum realm or not. Post Endgame movies screenwriting really are meh
@@bamflyer Right? Super genius Tony Stark built a small arc reactor and the Mark I suit after being held captive in a cave for months. Then suddenly a science student was able to make the Iron Heart suit all by herself (while at the same time creating the only vibranium detector in the world as a science school project). Stephen Strange, a super genius photographic memory neurosurgeon took months to train how to create a portal using the mystic arts. Then suddenly a Ned Leeds was able to create portals using sling rings when trying to find Peter Parker because he is so talented in the mystic arts because his nana can see ghosts or something. Then also, an interdimensional kid, America Chavez is also talented in the mystic arts as she is able to train and create portals with sling rings. Kang, a super genius from the 31st century was able to create a time machine for himself and interdimensional portals for the TVA. Then suddenly, Cassie Lang was able to create interdimensional portal device from her basement. The whole movie is a joke. Felt like a Rick and Morty episode (yes i know one of the writers is from R&M). No stakes at all with everyone is a genius. And don’t get me started on super genius ants that live like 2000 years and was able to defeat Kang.
kang has appeared 2 times and was killed 2 time's i dont feel the thread of a army of kangs and those 2 where the best ones apparently it would be beter if the didnt defeat kang just escaped and those other kangs killed him or at the very least kept antman and wasp in the quantum realm there escape was just cheap also why there suits now Nano thingies when did tony stark made those ?
Just want to say: all of this is just what I've gathered from where I think the MCU was going but like you both said, they could be going anywhere and do anything cause they wrote themselves into the corner with this multiverse thing. So, as far as I know or have understood, he who remains is the LAST Kang. He has pruned every timeline that has him and created one Prime timeline that makes sure they don't have any variant of him. He is the one, and there is one timeline, and there is only one version of everyone. The TVA is meant to make sure there is only one timeline that exists. Some of that was motivated by the Kang we see in this movie (i think?). But yeah, that was what was going on with, "He Who Remains." So the Kang we saw was supposed to be the big big bad as far as i know (although his motivation in this movie was kinda what He Who Remains was doing). But then this movie decided to fumble the ball, and that end credits scene was kinda ridiculous and confusing. It also got zero reaction from the theater I was in. I don't think Marvel really knows what they're doing now.
Idk how someone wrote this script and said, “yea we’re good.” Also, Peyton Reed is the most pedestrian director ever. A hindrance to creative and competent direction.
It was so funny cause he made comments about making this his big spectacle movie to be taken seriously. He didn’t want to just be the guy who directs movies in between avenger movies. This was meant to be his Endgame lol swing and a miss
@@RJ-Ramen I mean that’s kind of the problem right now. They aren’t paying for quality writers and directors. Look at most of the screenwriters and directors for the upcoming films and series. Hardly any credits to their names, yet they are given huge marvel movies?? lol it’s so strange. They wanna cut corners because they need such high cgi budgets and it really shows.
@@RJ-Ramenyeah ok but admittedly all those reports of his final edit being shit on by the studio who wanted more jokes and a less serious tone seem to have been true
I’m just now realizing (maybe giving the writers too much credit) The titular wasp isn’t Hope, it’s Janet since she’s the former wasp. While yeah everyone including myself would expect hope to have a bigger part (or like anything to do) in the film- it does hold up it’s namesake being heavily about Scott & Janet
@Cristo Alba the upside is that there's like an infinite amount of them, so we could get one that is basically this kang, but slightly different edit: or they could just bring him back, idk, prolly not watching this movie either way
It’s not much to hold onto. He was good, but the writers at marvel are actually the worst people in the world. The prerequisites, the credentials that one should posses before they are even ALLOWED to write for a marvel film are non existent. Marvel is spread to thin, and they have NOBODIES writing these hundred million dollar films. It’s absurd. Your stories that you’ve grown up with, that you cherish, are being written by millennial crackpots who actually hate you.
When Scott said "I just need both of us to lose" I assumed he was gonna get trapped in the quantum realm. Okay. Cool. Then hope showed up. Oh shit. Is she gonna take his place so he can be with his daughter? I sat up. Then they both got out. Oh. Fun. No consequences
i mean technically yes it's a "soft reboot" of kang, because he says in loki there are a shitload of kangs all over the ...timestream? and that many of them are really not very nice. he's possibly the only benevolent one, and once he gets killed it paves the way for the others to come into universe 616 (can't remember why but he was keeping the peace with the tva in a manner of speaking). so yeah the all-new, all-different kang (or the multiple kangs) in quantumania was laid out pretty comprehensively in loki
Yeah. Basically He Who Remains cut off the Sacred Timeline from the rest of the multiverse. So the rest of the Kangs took over everything else, making it a kingdom, a Dynasty if you will (hehe). Now that He Who Remains is dead, and 616 is connected to the rest of the multiverse again, the Kangs are scared that because 616 has remained unchecked by them for so long, it may be a threat to their Dynasty
Assuming Modok is 100% CGI, I think he looks great. Because he looks so photo real that people are just assuming they took footage of the actor and stretched it to be wide, when in reality, I’m pretty sure he’s just 100% CGI. Is it a goofy design? Yes. Would a more accurate design have looked cooler, sure. But for what this is, I think they pulled it off exactly how they wanted to.
I'm annoyed by the fact that- Kang, the next big baddie of this phase, technically a nexus being smarter and more powerful than Thanos (I know comics wasn't also very consistent with the power scaling but this is just a disappointing introduction), was introduced in this film and immediately got outsmarted by a bunch of humans that can just mass-shift. I feel like, while they've teased the Kang Dynasty in the post credit scene, it feels like there's nothing at stake, because nothing felt like that here. Jonathan Majors gave an imposing, amazing performance, but after getting clapped by literal ants, I don't think any of the Kang variants are that terrifying anymore. The fact that Cassie was even able to open the gate back to the quantum realm immediately at the end (even though the machine was just meant to make a map in the beginning, until Modok used it to summon them) was such a lazy writing. Like they said, this is not to say I hate this film or it's bad, I still like Majors's performance, but maybe I'm just having an MCU fatigue and this felt like any other MCU film, which is getting more and more predictive at this point.
Same. Way too much exposition and it was a bit long, but I went in expecting it to be awful but enjoyed it. This entire movie would have made for a great series. There was just too much crammed in.
Outside of not liking kang. Post credit is a Disney plus add.. make the loki show have loki stuff. It's less loki and more agent tom.. where is the wrecker absorbing man or alternate thors.. a whole show and it's loki and loki clones. Imagine seinfield but it's just jerry in different shirts.
The only thing that’s really troubling is that they’re listening to whoever told them their stuff needs to be shorter. Quantumania in particular was choppy as all hell, jumping back and forth between scenes at a jarring pace. Content is clearly missing so nothing flows properly. Love & Thunder had a similar problem as we all know it was cut down and the shows too feel like eps are missing. Most people don’t mind if somethings long as long as what they’re watching is good. Stop cutting stuff. P.S. the annoying trend of villains both main and minor being redeemed by the end needs to die. Let bad guys be just that. BAD guys!
Yeah, Love And Thunder literally cut plot relevant scenes with big name actors it’s ridiculous. They cut Gorr meeting Eetri to explain how he knew Stormbreaker could open the gates and they removed The Grandmaster to explain where Gorr got the ship he was staying in and Thor was living with Love at the end
They don't all get redeemed, it's not a big trend. People love a good villain. And most of the best most interesting villains think they are the good guy.
@@YouAreStillNotablaze I do agree that those kind of villains are compelling and it’s true it’s not that big of a trend but it is cropping up a bit recently. Like MODOK in this didn’t need to be redeemed. That came out of know where and was completely unearned.
@@mrcritical6751love and thunder was ridiculous, it genuinely felt like they had a whole movie and left in only the joke and barebones plot scenes that moved the movie along. It was a skeleton movie with jokes inbetween
I personally felt like this was the strongest post-Thanos MCU film so far. But I also had low expectations because I haven't really liked any of the ones leading up to it, with the exception of Wakanda Forever, which still had a lot of tonal inconsistencies. Quantumania was certainly not flawless, but it felt the most coherent in terms of balancing its comedy and goofiness level with the overall story it was trying to tell. It's also the only one so far that, for me, felt like an Ant-Man movie and not like more Diet Avengers. It wasn't without faults, but I don't feel like it had the same sort of wild swings in tone and quality between scenes as the last few MCU movies.
I personally really enjoyed the movie. Worked as a fun instalment to the Ant-man films which have never been that serious, Kang was fantastic. Modok was a bit silly but in a funny memable way so I don't mind too much. This film really excited me for more Kang and Loki season 2.
Calling it now: the living tribunal is going to get retconned as a merged kang with the 3 main ones we see fusing the essence of his multiple selves into judge of all the multiverse. It thematically fits
30:15 this is what they're going to do about Kang in the next Avengers team up. Iron Lad is a Kang variant who is approached by one of the dominant members of the Counsel of Kangs. After their meeting, Iron Lad decides he doesn't like what his future holds and does everything in his power to prevent Kang the Conquerer from becoming a reality in his branch of the timeline. In his efforts, Iron Lad will team up with the Avengers and some members of the Multiverse. Together with Iron Lad's understanding of the Kangs strengths and weaknesses, he will disclose their weakness. It might be his love for Ravonna Renslayer. Kang will finally conquerer and be with Ravonna but she will not accept him because of everything he has done and all the bad things he did to get back to her. In the comics there's no defeating a character like Kang, Galactus, The Celestials, etc You have to use your witts and hurt them emotionally. Leverage their internal weaknesses to force them into submission.
I've hardly ever wanted movies to lose money more than the past few Marvel offerings. They NEED at least one official MCU thing to fail miserably if they're going to get any better
I think my big unknown with the other Kangs is "Why?" Like, why do they want to conquer the multiverse? I get The One Who Remains. He wanted control to prevent the chaos of the others. But why do the others want to create chaos? You're a super-genius. Start a mega multiverse space corporation or something. Kangdonald's. That's evil enough.
I still don't have the semblance of what the avengers even are now. I feel since phase 4 we have had no idea who our protagonists or antagonists are. Just mostly separate disjointed stories
THEORY: post credits when they talk about "they killed him" that they are actually talking about "he who remains" and not Kang. "He who remains" exiled himself at the end of time so think it could be a bluff from Marvel to make us think its Kang thats dead.
So, why did they have the Giant Man problem in this movie? Getting big or even 10x as big as he got at the end of this movie is still insanely small to his normal walking around size. Why did he get hungry and tired from it? Is it less his absolute size and more his size in comparison to those around him or are we supposed to think they shrunk down so small, they got smaller than particles, and that got them to this other universe where they are actually their normal size although he did say something to the contrary to the telepathic guy.. Whaaa?
I just cannot fathom how this version of Kang supposedly killed multiple teams of Avengers and then loses to Ants crawling over him and eating his costume
I thought the point of the Multiversal War was that all the Kangs wanted to destroy eachother before the other got the chance to do it to them first (paranoia of coming face to face w absolute power). But then they’re all meeting together at the end like pals in that giant arena? So who the fuck are they fighting?
Kang is a rather lame villain to begin with. He has no super powers just future technology and he didnt even invent the time travel tech himself he just stumbled across what his ancestor created. So he is basically Booster Gold from DC and lost to a bunch of smart ants in his first movie.
Kevin Feige says they have enough material to make movies for another 80 years. Not sure if that's a promise or a threat.
They've got 80 years of material to draw from. Marvel writers don't have to write anything, they adapt what other writers have already written. Remember how good Game of Thrones was until the point when the guys didn't have material to adapt?
@@danbauer3669 Marvel productions have been bad for quite a while
@@CamJames yeah, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I think I will soon agree with you as that is the inevitable outcome of the Disney entertainment monopoly. The Shows are hit and miss but they're new to the series. I haven't yet (other than Incredible Hulk in '09) walked out of a theater and thought to myself "that was complete dogshit." But, eventually your opinion will likely be the norm. I didn't watch this Ant-Man 3 yet, though.
But, it might take me a little longer to get there because I am biased. I was learning to read at like age 2. "See spot, see spot run" this is boring. What's my brother reading? So, I learned to read on books like Wolverine, Spider-Man, the Punisher and I have been waiting my whole life for the movies to exist. But, you're right. Dammit, man!
@@danbauer3669 I am hoping that Marvel can nail reintroducing FF4 and Xmen. Having all those characters back in the mix will hopefully reinvigorate the MCU.
Also, gotta keep Sony from doing something dumb and ruin Spiderman with their terrible decision-making
Definitely a threat, fuck Marvel and ilk, worst infection we've had to deal with.
Pretty disappointed that they didn't include Kang's signature catchphrase "I'm going to fuc-kang kill you, Ant-Man."
This made me laugh really hard. Kudos to you, kudos
@@joshdavies9444 Kang and Kudos
@@WanderingChin you caught what I was throwing out there
I've always thought that catchphrase was kinda weird, because he always says "Ant-Man", no matter who he's actually fighting. Such an interesting character trait for Kang.
This is the funniest thing I've read all month, thank you
I hated the cliche of Janet not telling anyone anything and spending a quarter of the movie saying how she’s protecting everyone from this terrible secret only to reveal almost nothing of interest and have no bearing on anything except to tell them there’s a bad guy
My favorite part when she screamed that she had needs instead of explaining the evil within the quantum realm 🤣🤣🗿
No literally. Hope is meant to be the most intelligent science person ever (which we never even see her doing) and she's clearly interested in the quantum realm but somehow the safer option is NOT mentioning the world-destroying maniac who's trapped there.
@@JStorkey6You mean Janet, I think, but agree
Especially because she had no issue with Scott going to the Quantum Realm to get particles for Ghost.
Drove me nuts
James is in trouble because he is old. I am in trouble because James hasn't acknowledged he is old in a while
Acknowledging things is a young man’s game
@@mrsundaymoviesthat’s now a paradox
Are you James' son?
he's also a father
I thought he did in the Shrek the Third caravan of garbage
That was actually Kang the Concurrer. The most agreeable of all the Kangs.
i concur
I sooooo agree with this
th-cam.com/video/Y-NX69EdU-o/w-d-xo.html
Made me giggle 🤭
Kang the Concurrent was standing just off screen doing the exact same thing.
GOOD ONE ! LOL !
There is a great version of this movie where Kang offers Scott a deal with the devil in exchange for time with Cassie. Scott turns him down, being heroic and all... But Hank chooses to take the deal to get time back with Janet
Oh my god that is so much better! It's insane
🙄
That's a rumour that may as well be confirmed. This movie was heavily reworked in post-production. The ending where Scott walks was a reshoot added last month! I'm curious who was responsible for the change. Our boy Kevin? Who???
@@noobbotgaming2173 kevin feige has full control over marvel so everything that goes wrong is his fault
Yep this was my frustration with the movie overall. I liked it quite a bit (it's actually my favorite Ant-Man movie despite the lack of Michael Pena), but I felt like I would have LOVED it if it had allowed itself to dive into the emotional core it kept hinting at.
Scott has missed the formative years of his daughter's life. But even before that he was a convict, then an Avenger, and while he did what he could to be a good dad while he was around... the fact is he wasn't around, both for reasons within and not within his control.
The movie seems to realize this since it starts with Cassie getting out of jail - going down a bad path that follows in her dad's footsteps in the worst way. But instead of letting Scott actually have a realistic reaction to this - concern, anger, guilt - they brush it off with a few jokes, and then for most of the rest of the movie Scott and Cassie - the two characters who should be the heart and soul of the movie - basically have no conflict with each other. There are a few brief moments of her wanting to help people and him wanting to stay out of it that culminate in her speech at the end... but it's nowhere near enough.
And this wouldn't be so bad if the rest of the movie weren't CLEARLY setting up a parallel story with Janet. Where Janet made a choice for the greater good that left her trapped in the Quantum Realm and separated from HER daughter for several years, Scott gets offered the exact same bargain from the exact same guy - help me escape and do something potentially horrible, and I'll give you back the time you lost with your daughter. And yet... he just rejects it. Easily. Without any sort of conflict, the idea of working with Kang doesn't even occur to him until Kang brings out the stick and basically gives him no choice.
It's like the movie's afraid to make Scott unlikable for even a second so refuses to give him any real flaws, which is crazy because Scott Lang in the earlier movies is DEFINED by his flaws. His flaws are what made him become the new Ant-Man in the first place.
Like imagine a version of the movie where Scott is so concerned about the path Cassie's going down, and so convinced that it's his fault for not being there that he actually takes Kang's offer, only to realize that Cassie's actually fine and he just needs to accept the young woman she's becoming rather than holding onto and trying to protect the little girl he left behind.
Similarly, the Janet/Hank/Hope side of the movie could have ALSO used a bit more conflict. As it stands, Hope and Hank learn that Janet could have gotten all that time they lost back and chose not to for the greater good, and rather than feel any sort of way about it they just shrug and move on. What if Hope instead actually resented her mother for making that choice? What if Hope actually had... any sort of defining character moments in this movie at all.
Like, I enjoyed this movie a lot for the ride it was! It was fun, I thought the Quantum Realm was suitably weird and creative, a lot of the jokes actually landed for me, both Kang and MODOK I thought were great in their own ways... honestly, probably my favorite Marvel movie since No Way Home, and I really appreciated that outside of Kang the movie didn't waste time setting up things for future movies - no useless Iron Heart subplot here, or random cameos from actors playing characters that have no role in this movie but only serve to set up the next one (looking at you Brett Goldstein and Charlize Theron and Julia Louis-Dreyfus), no other Avengers stopping by to wish them luck - it was refreshingly self-contained all things considered!
But what was simply a GOOD MCU movie could have been a GREAT one, if they had just let the characters have realistic emotions and flaws every once in a while. It's clear that Marvel is already taking the wrong lessons from No Way Home: the reason that movie worked wasn't because it beat us all over the head with villains and Spider-Men from movies past... the reason that movie worked was because for the first time in a LONG time it let its protagonist have flaws, suffer losses, lose control, and grow as a person.
For decades Marvel comics set itself apart from DC by letting its heroes be flawed and ultimately human. But for the last several MCU movies, these characters have started to all feel like infallible quip-machines, and it's getting a bit old, even when the movie still manages to be a fun ride.
I really wanted Scott and Hope to get stuck in the Quantum Realm after they defeated Kang at the end. Would have been a better ending for me
1000% that would have been a sick cliffhanger to end on. I thought the portal home popping up behind them during the hug was a mood killer~
No, they've already had Scott stuck in the quantum realm last movie. Hope or hank should have been killed off though.
But we have seen that twice already
Maybe theres a way to make that work, but there's 2 problems with taking the story that direction, we know they have the technology on Earth in order to enter the Quantum Realm again and that would be the 4th time in this series that someone has gotten trapped in the Quantum Realm.
yep, janet van dyne said if they need to go back to the normal realm it has to be then and there, then they opened the portal like 10 minutes after
I think the big difference between the set up for Kang in this saga vs the setup for Thanos in the last one, is Thanos had a very tangible goal: collect the infinity stones. We could track them as they showed up throughout the movies and it made it easier to tell what the state of the universe was based on who had them/where they were.
With Kang, it’s just a nebulous “I’ll conquer the multiverse” and that’s a very inexplicable concept to portray on screen. Cause he either does, or he doesn’t. There’s no halfway marker or line of demarcation that shows his progress. And then of course, the question is, is it just one Kang or is it multiple?
Plus with Thanos, for the first majority of phase one we just knew "Oh he's out there and he's gonna want them infinity stones!" with him mostly being implied to be doing stuff in the background with sparse appearances here and there to remind us "Oh yeah this guy's still out there." We didn't SEE him going around doing things until his big appearance in infinity war where he had his big day out.
Also, when it comes to Thanos, we had the much celebrated "Infinity Gauntlet" event/story arc. Everyone knows and loves that comic!
But NOBODY is EVER excited for a Kang story! There have never BEEN any good Kang stories!! No one has ever run to their cousins like "Man, you gotta read this Kang story! It will change the way you think about comics forever!"
The thing about Kang is… who cares. It’s turning into DBZ. Beat the baddest bad guy? No worries, the *real* baddest bad guy is portaling in right now.
@@jerfuhrer2581 exactly nobody cares about kang ever he’s not interesting but now Thanos he’s definitely intriguing and a comic fan favorite
@@knucklejoe26 exactly and if he's killed and conquered other universes: What do we care as long as the Prime Universe is unaffected?
The issue with M.O.D.O.K. for me is that the face looked like it was being displayed on a flat screen in the suit. It didn't look three dimensional if that makes sense?
Tbf that’s what his face has always looked like.
I’m waiting for a Corridor Digital VFX Artists React video to be made about it, and what they might have done differently to make it work better. I think maybe if the edges of his face were really stretched out and fraying and tearing like his skin was being pulled to cover more area than it was able to and looked like it might tear at any second, that might have worked better.
They should’ve kept his mask/shield on his face. It was so disturbing looking at his face. Looks like my old boss who was a jerk! Lmao.
Reminded me of george lopez from sharkboy and lavagirl
That describes it perfectly.
The thumbnail aged incredibly well
on god
i agree that the tone of the movie didn't mesh well with the introduction to genocidal villain were going to follow for the rest of the next saga. definitely could've benefited from being a more small well rounded story instead of carrying the weight of introducing Kang.
How many times are you going to be interested in seeing the same villain fail and die?
@@theraVen27 Man U can’t tell you the irritation of the one theme the mcu should’ve dropped long ago and that’s introducing a villain just to kill ‘em off by the end of the movie. Modok , The Mandarin, Ronan , lot of long term big time avengers villains just to die and sell some more merch.
@@Hotrodimusprime also mandarin being the villain of shang-chi imo kinda sucked bc he's iron man's arch enemy and they completely botched that opportunity like 10 years ago
Well why did it have to be about introducing Kang? I would rather see, you know, an Ant-Man movie.
He was introduced in Loki
This movie is almost the definition of things happening
th-cam.com/video/Y-NX69EdU-o/w-d-xo.html
Mason struggling to keep track of just the two Kangs we've seen so far is a good indication of how normal audiences will react when there's infinite Kangs to fight.
He didn't struggle. He nailed it. Why did you copy-paste the same comment?
No such thing as a normal audience like this is the first movie 🎥
@@delmarfrazier2727 I think at this point normal movie audience just means people who only watched the movies or even only the big team of movies
@@CrowTRobot no one understands this shit, and no one cares, MCU is dying.
My mom and sister is what I would call a normal audience. They have watched Loki and quantumainia and they are confused. They thought he died in Loki so they thought this was before Loki and then when I explained it them they asked me, well then all of the Scott’s we seen in the one scene died? That’s when I realized as a nerd, I can’t even explain most of this shit.
Anyone else think Antmans speech when he was big at the end was a callback to a scene that was cut? “Our word is our bond” seems very random for Scott to care about
Agreed. The trailers made it seem like Scott was gonna willingly team up with Kang to get more time with Cassie before being betrayed by him, so maybe the speech comes from that version of the script.
Yeah it was so corny and weird.
@@DJmouchi777 ok i havent seen the movie but is this not the plot? because the trailer 100% makes it seem like it is!
@Loren Holmes While Scott and Kang do make a deal and Scott does get betrayed, it isn't the crux of the film and Scott is basically forced at gunpoint into taking the deal.
@@lorenholmes1978 yeah the trailers are incredibly misleading. Instead of taking the more interesting character dilemma approach and actually take chances they go the easy route and just make Kang a nutjob who holds Cassie hostage till Scott does what he wants. Instead Kang should have made himself seem like a sensible guy who wants to help and scratch my back I scratch yours type and THEN betrayed Scott at the end making you unsure the whole movie if this Kang really is that bad or just misunderstood. From the jump you’re like, well this dude isn’t gonna hold up his end of the bargain lol At every turn when Marvel could have made a really cool story they go the Saturday Morning Cartoon route and that’s what is most disappointing
The problem with an infinite army of Kangs is that it you have to apply the Law of Inverse Ninja Strength/Conservation of Ninjutsu otherwise the power level would be just to astronomical for anyone to comprehend. The issue with that is when you have a billion Kangs and most of them are going down like chumps to the street level heroes you have to do some serious writing to make the Big Kangs important enough to not go down.
You haven’t seen the movie have you? In this movie Ant Man is able to grow even bigger than Godzilla, 450 feet tall. In this form he slams Kang through buildings, and kang is not phased at all. Ant Man won by being lucky. Kang solo’s a rebellion army, the antman family, and a swarm of 1000 year old ants with mech suits and weapons.
And still had the energy to keep fighting and only lost because antman got lucky and slightly outsmarted him.
Saying “Kang was beat by a street level character” tells me you haven’t seen it. Because antman is no longer street level. He can wreck all of NY at this point and in endgame was taking down Leviathans in one punch. While kang was tanking those same type of punches
@@king_vision4085 marvel fanboy cry harder
@@king_vision4085 This was meant for like future movies... like if the Avengers films try doing an army of Kangs they will have to power down each individual Kang so that every hero has a chance, but if they keep it limited to a handful at a time it might be more reasonable to have the Kang(s) at this film's power where he is basically unphased by everything.
It is like the Ultron army. They technically are a hivemind so they should be the same power/intelligence as Ultron, but they made them grunts in the film so that the Avengers had a big army to bash around.
@@joep218 what’s funny is how many people are crying about how the movie is bad and haven’t seen it. What’s funnier is how many people get mad when someone actually enjoyed it 😂
@@kid14346 no each Kang will be OP in their own ways. And you have to realize the kangs will be fighting each other for superiority and the survival of THEIR universe. Imagine each Thanos from every timeline waging a war against each other to be the last Thanos left. And the avengers caught in the cross fire. That’s what we’re building up to with kang
What would have been chilling is if at the end where they're having the cake for cassie and paul rudd is having an existential crisis if he looked across the restaurant and like in dark knight rises at the end, Kang is chilling in the restaurant and nods at paul rudd
Would it be scary? Call the ants, kang is defeated.
I was honestly hoping it would turn out a Kang was just hanging out in the background of a bunch of scenes after the fact. Like at one of the sidewalk cafés, one in the coffee shop, one at Baskin Robbins...
I get why they didn't, but it would be neat
I was hoping he ran into Luis at the end who asked where he been, and gave him one of those long roundabout stories that Scott wasn't paying attention to until Luis says, so yeah I think he's like a wrestler or something he was all buff and called himself the Conqueror.
I honestly thought for sure while watching that scene in the restaurant with the cake that he would look up at the waiter to say “thank you” and it was gonna be Kang.
I also thought Kang should have killed Ant-Man and, like Darth Vader in the hallway at the end of Rogue One, continue tearing through everyone he loved and cared about with only one of them getting through the portal back home to warn Earth that he’s coming.
I feel like all of these characters are adjacent enough to the MCU that they could have killed off Hope, Janet, *and* Hank and maybe just have his daughter survive (since they’re clearly building up to a Young Avengers team-up). And I think the only way to make audiences care about Cassie Lang after recasting three different actresses to play her would be to have this one bear the grudge and vengeance of seeing her entire extended family killed in front of her because of the machine she built in the garage.
I very much liked the end-credits “sense of impending doom” joke but I think that slapping the smile off of his face would have delivered a bigger threat (with a gut punch similar to the end of Infinity War) and we already got the more cerebral “I’ll see you soon” version of him in Loki.
I definitely felt like there were some things changed/lost due to reshoots and left on the cutting room floor that muddied the motivation of the Kang we see in this film (making him more or less outwardly evil, as opposed to a necessary evil as James & Mason said) and with respect to whether/how Kang is killed in this film (which undercuts the story of this one being exiled and the audience having a connection to him now) as well as whether or not Ant-Man died in an earlier cut but test audiences or the studio caused it to be re-written.
@@SirJokerMcDuff Basically the ending to Loki with the statue.
Can't wait for Kang's inevitable scar origin story! What do you reckon, did he cut himself shaving or was it a space dog this time?
so you wanna know how he go these scars?
You see his father was a drinker. And a fiend
It's from his neural tech, its same reason his eyes are blue for a second when his mask goes down.
Knowing the MCU it will be that he got it from being whipped by a white male bigot.
It was a scratch from a space cat again.
Before seeing this movie, I had a theory that Cassie may have received a terminal illness diagnosis. It would give more weight to Scott wanting those 5 years back.
I imagined Scott Lang actually does the selfish choice and helps Kang escape with the promise to be brought back just after the blip. From there, Kang double-crosses Scott (“you thought you could win?”).
The movie ends with Scott and friends escaping the Quantum Realm… but they’ve clearly lost. Cassie doesn’t want anything to do with her father. Hope and her parents are working hard to find a way to stop the inevitable rise of Kang. Scott is alone and we hear his narration… “my life wasn’t suppose to be this way.”
We then see the council of Kangs meet. We hear panicked mumbling about the return of the conquerer. Kang the Conquerer teleports in and begins to kill everyone. He asks the remaining few alternate versions of himself to join his cause.
ahhh that’s fire
That sucked
I just wished Scott at the end dies while stopping Kang from escaping the Quantumrealm. I like Scott, but his death would've solidified Kang as a real threat.
Sounds like the old MCU. The one before Disney sabataged it.
Lara Croft with breast cancer is what you wanted. Dumb theory.
Towards the end, Kang starts evaporating all the Quantumverse citizens. Then when the Ant people fight him, he's using some weird "push-energy" and just knocks them around lol. Why not just insta-zap them?
Video game logic. Evaporate was on a cooldown.
Love your videos man
Its a weak kang movie
because reasons
Don't question the socialist ant colony 😂... they are a level 2 society or something like that.
Just like modok... I'm designed for killing, immediately gets battered, then told don't be a dick.. dies a avenger looks at Ant-Man as a brother.. 🤨🤔🧐🤬
If Kang killed many Thors before but can't punch out Ant-Man is Ant-Man the Strongest Avenger TM?
I'd imagine he killed Thor with his tech. He only conquered the Quantum Realm because of his armor.
No no no don’t think about that! Turn brain off and enjoy the pretty colors. This movie was real bad and empty
Antman slammed kang into building while being bigger than Godzilla and that didn’t phase kang at all. Have you seen the movie?
In the Quantum Realm he can't use the time teleport he uses in Loki. I imagine that helped a lot with killing Thor.
He doesnt have basically anything that makes him poweful... [perception and manipulation of time] or any of his actual tech and took over an entire universe(quantam realm)this is a de-powered kang and he still op as fuck.
Y’all said it, they need to define his limitations. Finding his limitations will probably be a Loki season 2 or Avengers Kang Dynasty plot. I could see Loki ending in a failed attempt to find his weakness, though
Can I be honest I thought the quantum realm was as small as you could physically go but they either forgot about that or didn’t care and they were still able to shrink throughout the movie which made me confused.
From the first ant man I’ve always had this idea of the quantum realm: shrinking down subatomic acts as a gateway to another dimension, rather than it comprising of subatomic particles. So using my understanding, doctor strange or other wizards could get to the quantum realm using their sling rings as well, it’s just that Scott and pym found a “back door” by shrinking lots. Don’t know if that’s right at all but nothing has necessarily disproven it so far.
@@blue8661 I just remember in the first ant man movie Hank lost Janet in the quantum realm for good because she had gone too small to try and fit through the molecules of a metal plate on a missile. Well I guess I don’t completely understand how all of them had the capability to get even smaller in the quantum realm including Cassie. There’s also no explanation in the movie from Hank or either Janet (who has been in the quantum realm the longest) to why they are able to shrink with no problem at all. It just seems like they tried to hide that plot hole with not giving explanation too it. Maybe later in phase 5 they’ll explain it to more of your understanding and we’ll see more characters in the quantum realm but I think this might be the last movie the quantum realm even shows up. kang is now released from the realm and there’s no reason that I can see for them to back there. Marvel has been getting shittier and shittier by every movie and I’m honestly not expecting any more depth to the quantum realm after this movie
I can’t remember who said it, but the “roof over the quantum realm” is exactly the words I’ve been looking for since they started the multiverse stuff. They treat the stuff like it’s a building, or another planet that they can just walk to. It feels very small and finite when it’s literally supposed to be infinite. It’s hard to base all the world buildings problems on them not understanding it, because it should be obvious that it’s pretty hard to project, while not having ant man get one shot obliterated
Kang the conquerer clearly didn't die, him being sucked into the multiversal engine was escaping the quantumrealm but with no way to aim his destination. Also, while there are a bunch of multiversal Kangs, they are also Kangs from different points in time. The conquerer may be destined to eventually become "he who remains" later in time.
Technically Michelle pfeiffer is the wasp so the title fits. She was even in the costume confronting kang. But I would’ve preferred Evangeline Lilly doing more
Kang losing to ants already makes the idea of him being an Avengers level threat HILARIOUS.
To be fair those ants were terrifying. I sorta wanted them to take over, be like, "Okay, cool, we're in charge now. Contribute to the swarm, or die."
He was slowed down.
They were down there for a thousand years with Pym tech and Quantum tech. If they figure out multiversal travel the Avengers have to worry about the Ant Dynasty
@Sain they conveniently fell down a seperate hole and developed thousands of years of technology- holy shit this is just dumb.
Type 2 civilization ants. Humans arent even a type 1 yet.
The fact that Ant-Man was able to land a single punch on Kang makes me concerned. So far Kang doesn't seem like an Avengers level threat. He couldn't kill a single main character.
He was defeated by the Ants. ANTS, this might have been the worst way to incorporate the new big bad marvel could have done
@@ultralm7250 giant hyper-intelligent technologically advanced ants that had 1000’s of years to advance Hank’s already advanced tech and combine it with Quantum Realm tech
So, like the comics then, where power levels are never wholly consistent
@@YouAreStillNotablaze lmao it’s not about power levels it’s about narrative, no one’s going to believe he’s a multiverse threat now that we know he can be defeated by ants.
Also just because the problem is also in the comics doesn’t mean you can’t criticize it in the movies, cool it with your whataboutism.
He's a guy - thats all. He's got lots of tech, but once the tech is gone he is still human under there. He's not like Thanos where he can go toe-to-toe with The Hulk in a bathrobe, he needs the tech to boost him up.
I expect we'll see all kinds of technology from him over the various films, I do not doubt he'll be a match for the Avengers - largely because he can, actually, be anything at all - you just need to bring in another version of him with the power level needed to beat them.
I liked this movie. But I will say the biggest reveal to me was when the final title card came up at the end of the initial credits and they showed that the words "ant man" are actually in the word "quANTuMANia" which I somehow never noticed before 😭
Me neither. Now I know!
Woah.
I think that might have hit the nail right on the head for me. A lot of this movie felt too predictable or like you could see it coming. We all know Kang has to escape or at least be summoned for the next phase. We know that Janet had a past with Kang. However we have known the name for this movie for more than a year-and-a-half, and only at the end credits did I realize that Ant-Man fit into quantummania.
What's funny to me is that It's called Antman and the Wasp, but the Wasp does nothing at all in the entire movie 🤣
@@RickReasonnz Now that you mention it, she did a terrible job of being a Wasp! Leaving people she inspired to revolt against, never telling her family at all about the dangers of the quantum realm, and overall just being dumb!
Unfortunately I thought the daughter was kind of annoying. The way she immediately wanted to help the rebels despite knowing nothing about them or who the ruler actually was. It would have been kind of cool if she learned that people aren’t black and white through the rebel leader.
imagine if it was like an ISIS situation where the rebels turn out to be worse than the evil dictator's regime
Probably the direct representation of one of the marvel writers.
I support current thing type person.
No that’d be a lil too much for capeshit diehards to handle
Yeah the whole movie she was getting on my nerves and I just started rooting for Kang to win
not to mention Scott's very good point about needing to gtfo because they have no idea how much time is passing in the normal world while they're down there.
my own personal belief is that the conqueror kang we saw in Quantumania just got exactly what he wanted by getting stuck inside the multiverse-engine. he will probably reappear as having new powers and getting a huge ability buff.
I feel the same way, I feel like this Kang is going to show up in Secret wars
I don’t know why, but I love that Cassie calls Hank “Grandpa Hank”
The thing that this movie was really missing is a heist. That's the bread and butter of an Ant Man movie. They heist in the first movie, they heist in the second, the time heist was even kind of his idea. What they really needed was for Scott and Hope to try fighting Kang and very quickly and brutally get outmatched. So the third act they realize that they can't go toe to toe with Kang and they need to steal the time engine without Kang catching them. So they have an elaborate scheme that is designed to draw Kang out of his citadel so they can sneak in. Scott Does an Endgame style Avengers Assemble moment. Super ants are used as cannon fodder rather than deus ex as they swarm Kang's forces and stall the citadel from taking off. Scott, Hope, and Cassie play cat and mouse with MODOK and he absolutely obliterate's everything he touches. Meanwhile Kang is killing thousands and thousands of ants, but there are so many of them that for ever ant you kill 3 more take its place. They start hitting him from all angles, dropping buildings on him and everything. The team finally makes it to the chair as Kang figures out what's really happening and teleports to meet them. Hope and Scott briefly fight with Kang, but again, they are seriously outclassed and he is about to kill them when Janet breaks it up. She tries reasoning with him. This seems to work briefly, but Kang loses his temper and is about to kill everyone when Hank who snuck in separately appears in his shrunken form and throws the engine at Kang with the red and blue discs on it. But it should really feel like they barely make it out of the fight alive at the end.
I would’ve enjoyed this sooo much more than what we got! The third act would have the same vibes as the Rogue One hallway scene except they survive to warn the others about Kang.
One of my issues I expected from the trailers, was that Antman Thrives from scale. The audience needs things they recognize and can relate to in order to get a sense of scale with the shrinking and growing. Within the made up Quantum realm. There were No relative things to scale against. Which made most scenes confusing, especially the "you're huge" scene.
And this Kang guy. There is no setup to what he can do. So he just does anything. Like that kid in the playground "I have everything armour"
At least with the Purple guy and his Rock collection. You set up his strength, by fighting green angry man. And the magic rocks all had a special name associated with what they could do. Great set ups.
Didnt really enjoy this antman. It has been my favourite MCU hero to follow. Disappointed
You should watch comics explained with Rob his channel explanation shows how and why kang can do anything and everything
@@sharnfraser7446 understandable, I'll give it a watch. But one should not have to watch supplementary material in order for a characters powers to be explained. Your movie should set up and payoff what they can do
@@sharnfraser7446 That doesn't fix the problem. People shouldn't have to seek out supplementary comic material to make sense or get anything out of the movie.
Its what they tried with suicide squad 2016 and it sucked massive dick. Just grab one of everything and tell people to go read comic books for any real details or story setups, shit bombed for a reason.
My biggest problem was Katheryn Newton. Not once did I believe she was sad, scared, or under stress. Any time she had to be one of these, you could visibly see her smile. It legit kept pulling me out of the movie.
And what a deal that they fired the other actress for this one lol. Clearly wasn’t worth their money cuz she rlly doesnt stand out as a cool character
She's awful. She was awful in FREAKY
She finally got to adventure with her super hero father. That might be why she was happy. She's grown up now and already is Stature from marvel comics also writers are telling us that.
@@mitchmarvelous6412 absolutely not.
@@AnbuGreenShinobi good argument
I think the biggest problem that the Marvel movies have had in the past little bit is the fan expectation vs what the movie ended up being. It started with Wandavision and casting Fox's Quicksilver to play faux Quicksilver and then with Dr Strange and his multiverse of killable characters, it all meant nothing and this movie was set up to be something huge to kick off the next phase and set up the villain and leave us with consequences that will reverberate throughout and lead into the next big event, but this movie had no consequences and didn't mean anything. It was like getting off a roller coaster and saying "yeah, that was fun! what now?"
"yeah, that was fun! what now?"
Get sick in a garbage bin.
I hope DC did worse
I mean, in regard to consequences it did introduce Kang the Conqueror, gave him access to conduct his ultimate plan, and has set off the Kang Dynasty to start targeting The Avengers. But ultimately, you're right.
@@WLTR- why?
Expectations inevitably lead into disappointments.
If you want to be impressed, you gotta leave some headroom.
This was the first marvel movie I didn’t see opening weekend, and I’m starting to think I’m just done with them lol
I'm certainly done after this. Wakanda Forever wasn't bad, but since Endgame the most enjoyment I've gotten is the snack-sized bits of fan service rather than actual compelling stories or visuals 🤧
Maybe you have become an adult?
@@marvies5959 what does being an adult have to do with it? There are people infinitely more successful than you that enjoy things you consider "childish". Humble yourself and get off your high horse, you're insignificant as a human being.
Ain't no one here care you slowed down your shilling over the MCU. Just find another hobby and move on, fool lmao.
@@marvies5959 nah my 12 year old brother hates this movie too. Marvel isnt bad, this movie is.
Michael Peña should have done the intro in his fast pace story recap and then you find out he was reading the book because Scott was late for some reason and all the parents and kids look confused until Scott shows up. Then Scott finishes the rest of the book.
Scorsese was not wrong. He was just couple years early. Marvel screenwriters need total recast.
I feel sorry for Jonathan Majors as he was the only one that cared to do acting in this, whatever it was.
And they know it. All the marketing is "we have Majors!" "Kang! Kang! Kang!" "Jonathan majors!" I mean if that's all you can yap on about maybe the film needs more
Why feel sorry for majors looks like he had a blast doing this and he is coming back so there's that
@@cj3670 Because his back must hurts.
Scorsese was right even back then
@@jestbone89 doesn't mean anything lol also Scorsese was right since iron man 1.
the idea of Luis accidentally coming along to the quantum realm would be sooooooo good. off the comedy but also what James mentioned that it’s a normal person reacting to the new world. I could see the B plot in my head already of him inspiring and leading the freedom fighters, with a moment where Cassie calls everybody to come fight kang but maybe the freedom fighters are just too afraid as they’ve gone down that road before and Luis stands up and talks about how much trust he has for Scott and his family. maybe he even tells them how Scott helped saved the entire universe and that’s a little pay off for how Scott has done his part and wants to just be a a normal person but ultimately chooses to do what’s right and that means Luis will too, and he hopes he’s not alone. And if you want to go for style points, you reconfigure the long winded comedic storytelling of Luis to be a bit more serious and somber.
another route they could take is doing some of that leading and mingling with the inhabitants of the world, but Luis makes a sacrifice or is tragically killed during the mid act low point that would serve as a real consequence and act of personal villainy from kang and gives Scott a hard motivation to defeat kang.
I would almost love it if for a while the ant-family doesn’t even know Luis came along with them, maybe he walks in through the door cause Scott was calling him over for a reason and he gets swooped in. And somehow Luis manages to survive on his own and assimilates with a group of people like the freedom fighters or stumbles upon a city that the gang visit, and Scott sees him and goes “…WHY?!?!?………. HOW?!???!????” and then Luis recaps how he got to where he is through his comedic storytelling. the joke could be that we saw his journey or just the storytelling.
Dan Murrel did a great spoiler review on how this movie makes me feel!
thumbnail aged like fine wine
James Gunn's criticisms regarding rushed productions, repetitive stories and scripts being half-baked all feel like his first hand experience of the modern Marvel machine. Fingers crossed he learned from the mistakes Feige made.
I mean, he was talking about DC.
He’s spoken very highly of Marvel Studios though, in a way that is more of a personal approval than saving face for Marvel’s reputation.
Gunn is too concerned w answering twitter questions to learn lessons.
@@gingeralebean5375 The MCU started off by utilizing characters that at the time were fairly obscure to the general movie going audience though. They were writing articles about "Marvel Rolling out the B Team" and everything
@@gingeralebean5375 except he isn’t. Opposite by using Superman and Batman again? How innovative.
also if the movie ended w scott n kang getting trapped or spin it as scott sacrifices himself to get them out and saving the universe making sure kang doesn’t get out (like the trailer implied) or kang preventing him from leaving and leaving the movie on a tense mood
that would’ve bumped up the movie for me
Same. I think they should have cut deep and killed off everyone but Cassie, leaving her with the guilt of knowing the machine she built with the idea that it could have helped her rescue her dad was the thing that ended up leading to his death… and also the potential death of everyone in every timeline with Kang cutting through that whole family like Darth Vader in the final scene of Rogue One.
I have to remind myself that the MCU probably won’t slice up any more characters for a while after the loss of Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow in the franchise, and that little kids going to see a fun movie about a guy that grows and shrinks probably wouldn’t react well to seeing an entire family slaughtered at the end. They only did the end of Infinity War knowing that they were going to undo it in the very next movie. But a savage Kang that was the *GOOD GUY* would really set the stage for what the bad variants are willing to do (if they played it like that).
@@MrJagermeister omg u read my mind COMPLETELY that would’ve been perfect or u could’ve even just had hank n janet sacrifice themselves would be what make the title of the movie about them starting a new in the quantum or something
and yea ion think will til they get to the bigger avengers movies which sucks i want them to take those brilliant sharp moves now especially if secret wars ends the way we think w a semi reboot all multiple franchises in one universe just like the actual marvel universe (one can dream) i think kang will be back n probably as the beyonder for that
My favorite part of the movie was where Scott was beaten down and looked up at Kang and said, "please, stop, no more..." and Kang looked down said, "It's MoreKangin' Time." and proceeded to Kang all over Scott.
Edit: just kidding, I didn't see it.
Unfinished games meet the new challenger, Unfinished movies.
Now we’re only missing season passes for movies
@@italianspiderman5012I didn’t even think of that but it tracks.
@@italianspiderman5012 movie pass did that years ago
@@johnwerner69 kinda, but there’s a lot of ways to “improve” the concept
@@italianspiderman5012 it’s a very broken system
He’s a theory: Maybe “he who remains” is actually a future version of this kang. That’s why their goals are partially aligned, with the younger version wanting to conquer the other kang’s and the older version realizing that mission is futile and the only way to save the multiverse is to create the TVA in Loki
He did talk about seeing “the end” of time.
They all eventually become Kang
I feel like James and Maso have monetized the convos all of us nerds have with our friends and I’m ok with that.
🤫
I got up at 5:55 AM to watch a New Mr. Sunday Movies Video because I am a Normal and Rational Person.
Indeed.
But it came out at 1030pm and I don’t understand time zones.
@@freshmaker0088 he or she is in the Americas and in the central time zone.
@@XanthosAcanthus I don’t understand time zones. How can it be morning when the sun has set? Something doesn’t add up.
@@freshmaker0088I think it has something to do with the Earth being flat.
🤣😂🤣
I feel this Kang will return.
I think he was trapped in a probability cloud, where he will lose himself for a while, yet master it. This may be why they had the scene with Scott.
So when Kang returns, he'll be able to quickly calculate attacks by his enemies, making him nearly impossible to beat.
This will make him a greater threat than anyone.
Agreed, the Conqueror isn't gone
A different version of the Conqueror
This thumbnail is more fitting with the news that just came out about Jonathan Majors
At the end, where Scott is narrating again, and has the sense of doom coming on, the people or objects he looks at are a color of purple or green. Kangs way of saying he’s coming
That's nice of him. Most guys don't say anything when they're coming.
what a stretch
@@michael-john4954 check out New Rockstars video on it. Scott and the team didn’t win. They put themselves in a different timeline. He who remains isn’t there anymore and the new 3 Kangs are letting the muliversal timelines play out
Kang is cuming
What struck me instantly was that the quantum realm had metal guns/tech. If the quantum realm is so infinitely tiny, the only way you would have metal as a material is that it was full size then shrunk. Having native metal there really stuck out to me
Oh, what about breathable air. Or a sun. Or gravity that functionally works without an orbital spin or a planetoid. Even universal constants like light, heat, atomic attractive forces, electricity or atomic structures that exist compressed into the same space, etc. If "Metal" was the dismissal of the fictional reality, and you forgot about oxygen... IDK what to tell you. It doesn't really make sense to have any form of life exist in a subatomic space, unless it has some kind of pre-existing human species multiverse/universe it came from already, and someone's keeping it all intact. with some kind of bubble/inversion magic.
Everything is wrong, so you can't even pick one thjng and sorta have to turn your brain off. This is a case where you literally can't think about it or nothing works. Absolutely nothing. Literally nothing. Zip. Zero. Choosing metal to focus on is odd when everything else makes zero sense too.
I just chalked it up to the comics being weird af, and I came out of the movie with a shrug.
This is a great graphic btw, you don’t notice Kang getting closer/larger and then further/smaller until you rewind to listen to that joke again and BAM he’s doing some Ant-Man shit.
Michelle Pfeiffer is arguably also a 'The Wasp' maintaining the integrity of the 'Ant-Man & the Wasp' title card
"Antman & a Wasp"
Ant-Men & The Wasps
Hank should have brought out he's Yellow Jacket suit.
01:55 “If you realised the man you were chatting to in the pub was Neil Armstrong, how long do you think you could go without mentioning the moon?” - Craig Cash
Its a mix between old school Star wars, Osmosis Jones, and the movie Antz and i love all those things.
The Osmosis Jones comp is dead on
All I'm saying is, Jonathan Majors makes this character so menacing. There's not many heavy hitting Avengers left so idk who's strong enough to defeat him when the time comes
Ant Man and The Wasp already beat him tho
I'm sure the writers will find a way to defeat him. I promise it
I know an ant
@@pickles168 a weaker version that was exiled and cut of from the technology of the Council
23:40 I did note that in the scene where Janet is explaining the multiverse, and Hank says almost verbatim what Spiderman said in No Way Home when he learned about the existence of the multiverse.
He grabs that giant disc shaped building and uses it like caps sheild....and there was NO mention of that by like any character. Scott clearly idolizes cap, fights like him for a sec, and marvel decides THATS the time not to make a joke?!
I felt this in the theatre
when he was getting bashed by Kang he should have said 'I can do this all day' when we all know he can't.
@@bamflyer cinema*
He should’ve died at the end. Would’ve made the movie to have more weight and Kang established as a terrifying villain.
The epilogue scene when he strolls around San Francisco feels surreal, like out of a Wandavision episode.
And the fact that suddenly Cassie able to open portals now is unrealistic. Everybody is a genius now. Doesn’t feel earned.
To be fair, has any lead in a solo MCU movie ever died?
If anyone's gonna die, it either has to be a supporting character (Coulson, Yondu) or they'll save it for the big crossover movies.
the whole everybody is a genius is getting really annoying
But she’s a girl! That’s all that matters in marvel now
@@N313GrayFox okay, fine. You got a point there.
But your point also makes this movie to have no stakes. They showed the line “I don’t have to win, we both just have to lose” in the trailer and then in the movie it was just resolved in a few minutes.
I believe it was a massive missed opportunity. Paul Rudd is 53 this year. Could’ve easily passed the baton to Cassie as the next Ant person, as Marvel also been hinting at Young Avengers.
It was shown that she has a good heart and hold on her own both as Stinger and Stature. They also made her a super genius who can build an interdimensional portal in her basement.
The movie could’ve been easily made to be an origin story for Cassie Lang’s Stinger/Stature.
Or even if you REALLY didn’t want to kill Scott Lang in this, just leave it as a cliffhanger or an ambiguous ending where we don’t know whether he lives or not and whether he was able to escape the quantum realm or not.
Post Endgame movies screenwriting really are meh
@@bamflyer Right?
Super genius Tony Stark built a small arc reactor and the Mark I suit after being held captive in a cave for months. Then suddenly a science student was able to make the Iron Heart suit all by herself (while at the same time creating the only vibranium detector in the world as a science school project).
Stephen Strange, a super genius photographic memory neurosurgeon took months to train how to create a portal using the mystic arts. Then suddenly a Ned Leeds was able to create portals using sling rings when trying to find Peter Parker because he is so talented in the mystic arts because his nana can see ghosts or something. Then also, an interdimensional kid, America Chavez is also talented in the mystic arts as she is able to train and create portals with sling rings.
Kang, a super genius from the 31st century was able to create a time machine for himself and interdimensional portals for the TVA. Then suddenly, Cassie Lang was able to create interdimensional portal device from her basement.
The whole movie is a joke. Felt like a Rick and Morty episode (yes i know one of the writers is from R&M). No stakes at all with everyone is a genius.
And don’t get me started on super genius ants that live like 2000 years and was able to defeat Kang.
This is the first marvel movie where the character didn't lose his home at the end of the third one
The video thumbnail aged like fine wine
kang has appeared 2 times and was killed 2 time's i dont feel the thread of a army of kangs and those 2 where the best ones apparently it would be beter if the didnt defeat kang just escaped and those other kangs killed him or at the very least kept antman and wasp in the quantum realm there escape was just cheap also why there suits now Nano thingies when did tony stark made those ?
Yeah but he has infinite respawns…
Just want to say: all of this is just what I've gathered from where I think the MCU was going but like you both said, they could be going anywhere and do anything cause they wrote themselves into the corner with this multiverse thing.
So, as far as I know or have understood, he who remains is the LAST Kang. He has pruned every timeline that has him and created one Prime timeline that makes sure they don't have any variant of him. He is the one, and there is one timeline, and there is only one version of everyone. The TVA is meant to make sure there is only one timeline that exists. Some of that was motivated by the Kang we see in this movie (i think?).
But yeah, that was what was going on with, "He Who Remains." So the Kang we saw was supposed to be the big big bad as far as i know (although his motivation in this movie was kinda what He Who Remains was doing). But then this movie decided to fumble the ball, and that end credits scene was kinda ridiculous and confusing. It also got zero reaction from the theater I was in.
I don't think Marvel really knows what they're doing now.
Idk how someone wrote this script and said, “yea we’re good.” Also, Peyton Reed is the most pedestrian director ever. A hindrance to creative and competent direction.
It was so funny cause he made comments about making this his big spectacle movie to be taken seriously. He didn’t want to just be the guy who directs movies in between avenger movies. This was meant to be his Endgame lol swing and a miss
@@walkertexasraymond major miss. His ambition is beyond his capabilities. His tenure should be done after this.
@@RJ-Ramen I mean that’s kind of the problem right now. They aren’t paying for quality writers and directors. Look at most of the screenwriters and directors for the upcoming films and series. Hardly any credits to their names, yet they are given huge marvel movies?? lol it’s so strange. They wanna cut corners because they need such high cgi budgets and it really shows.
@@RJ-Ramenyeah ok but admittedly all those reports of his final edit being shit on by the studio who wanted more jokes and a less serious tone seem to have been true
@@GuineaPigEveryday never heard about that. Who reported it?
I’m just now realizing (maybe giving the writers too much credit)
The titular wasp isn’t Hope, it’s Janet since she’s the former wasp. While yeah everyone including myself would expect hope to have a bigger part (or like anything to do) in the film- it does hold up it’s namesake being heavily about Scott & Janet
Soon as they mentioned the lack of Hope that's where I went. She was A Wasp.
Say what you will but Jonathan Majors was incredible in this
Easily the best part of the movie.
@Cristo Alba the upside is that there's like an infinite amount of them, so we could get one that is basically this kang, but slightly different
edit: or they could just bring him back, idk, prolly not watching this movie either way
It’s not much to hold onto. He was good, but the writers at marvel are actually the worst people in the world. The prerequisites, the credentials that one should posses before they are even ALLOWED to write for a marvel film are non existent. Marvel is spread to thin, and they have NOBODIES writing these hundred million dollar films. It’s absurd. Your stories that you’ve grown up with, that you cherish, are being written by millennial crackpots who actually hate you.
I didn’t get the hype. He was pretty average to me, but then his Dr Evil faux English accent was just so goofy, it was terrible.
@@Ammoniumbicarbonat he's super boring and dull. I don't get it. I truly do not get it. He was so boring.
"Kang Will Return" seems to make his return a done deal
When Scott said "I just need both of us to lose" I assumed he was gonna get trapped in the quantum realm. Okay. Cool. Then hope showed up. Oh shit. Is she gonna take his place so he can be with his daughter? I sat up. Then they both got out. Oh. Fun. No consequences
Exactly
th-cam.com/video/Y-NX69EdU-o/w-d-xo.html
Technically Michelle phiffer is also the wasp so the title still holds up
Antman and the Wasp and Antman and the Wasp and the Antman's daughter.
Ant man and ant man and the wasp and the wasp and Cassie
2 Antman 2 Wasp
@@Daisy-hy9bx but is Cassie a Wasp or an Antman?
i mean technically yes it's a "soft reboot" of kang, because he says in loki there are a shitload of kangs all over the ...timestream? and that many of them are really not very nice. he's possibly the only benevolent one, and once he gets killed it paves the way for the others to come into universe 616 (can't remember why but he was keeping the peace with the tva in a manner of speaking). so yeah the all-new, all-different kang (or the multiple kangs) in quantumania was laid out pretty comprehensively in loki
Yeah. Basically He Who Remains cut off the Sacred Timeline from the rest of the multiverse. So the rest of the Kangs took over everything else, making it a kingdom, a Dynasty if you will (hehe). Now that He Who Remains is dead, and 616 is connected to the rest of the multiverse again, the Kangs are scared that because 616 has remained unchecked by them for so long, it may be a threat to their Dynasty
@@Unknownigen yeah that follows
Assuming Modok is 100% CGI, I think he looks great. Because he looks so photo real that people are just assuming they took footage of the actor and stretched it to be wide, when in reality, I’m pretty sure he’s just 100% CGI.
Is it a goofy design? Yes. Would a more accurate design have looked cooler, sure. But for what this is, I think they pulled it off exactly how they wanted to.
I'm annoyed by the fact that- Kang, the next big baddie of this phase, technically a nexus being smarter and more powerful than Thanos (I know comics wasn't also very consistent with the power scaling but this is just a disappointing introduction), was introduced in this film and immediately got outsmarted by a bunch of humans that can just mass-shift.
I feel like, while they've teased the Kang Dynasty in the post credit scene, it feels like there's nothing at stake, because nothing felt like that here. Jonathan Majors gave an imposing, amazing performance, but after getting clapped by literal ants, I don't think any of the Kang variants are that terrifying anymore. The fact that Cassie was even able to open the gate back to the quantum realm immediately at the end (even though the machine was just meant to make a map in the beginning, until Modok used it to summon them) was such a lazy writing.
Like they said, this is not to say I hate this film or it's bad, I still like Majors's performance, but maybe I'm just having an MCU fatigue and this felt like any other MCU film, which is getting more and more predictive at this point.
I honestly liked this more then the previous Ant-Man movie.
Me too
Same. Way too much exposition and it was a bit long, but I went in expecting it to be awful but enjoyed it. This entire movie would have made for a great series. There was just too much crammed in.
That's not hard, most films are better than the 2nd Ant-Man....
@@chriscunningham8703 I still liked Ant-Man and The Wasp, but I just thought it was a very filler movie.
Outside of not liking kang. Post credit is a Disney plus add.. make the loki show have loki stuff. It's less loki and more agent tom.. where is the wrecker absorbing man or alternate thors.. a whole show and it's loki and loki clones. Imagine seinfield but it's just jerry in different shirts.
It feels like an American version of doctor who. Agent Tom 😂
Yes more content I listen to all these over and over to get through work easier plus helps me ignore the ghost slamming and dropping shit
Michelle Pfeiffer is also The Wasp so technically the title is still accurate.
You know what, this video's title/thumbnail combo hits different now
The only thing that’s really troubling is that they’re listening to whoever told them their stuff needs to be shorter.
Quantumania in particular was choppy as all hell, jumping back and forth between scenes at a jarring pace. Content is clearly missing so nothing flows properly. Love & Thunder had a similar problem as we all know it was cut down and the shows too feel like eps are missing.
Most people don’t mind if somethings long as long as what they’re watching is good. Stop cutting stuff.
P.S. the annoying trend of villains both main and minor being redeemed by the end needs to die. Let bad guys be just that. BAD guys!
Yeah, Love And Thunder literally cut plot relevant scenes with big name actors it’s ridiculous. They cut Gorr meeting Eetri to explain how he knew Stormbreaker could open the gates and they removed The Grandmaster to explain where Gorr got the ship he was staying in and Thor was living with Love at the end
They don't all get redeemed, it's not a big trend.
People love a good villain. And most of the best most interesting villains think they are the good guy.
It was jarring as hell in MOM
@@YouAreStillNotablaze I do agree that those kind of villains are compelling and it’s true it’s not that big of a trend but it is cropping up a bit recently. Like MODOK in this didn’t need to be redeemed. That came out of know where and was completely unearned.
@@mrcritical6751love and thunder was ridiculous, it genuinely felt like they had a whole movie and left in only the joke and barebones plot scenes that moved the movie along. It was a skeleton movie with jokes inbetween
I personally felt like this was the strongest post-Thanos MCU film so far. But I also had low expectations because I haven't really liked any of the ones leading up to it, with the exception of Wakanda Forever, which still had a lot of tonal inconsistencies. Quantumania was certainly not flawless, but it felt the most coherent in terms of balancing its comedy and goofiness level with the overall story it was trying to tell. It's also the only one so far that, for me, felt like an Ant-Man movie and not like more Diet Avengers. It wasn't without faults, but I don't feel like it had the same sort of wild swings in tone and quality between scenes as the last few MCU movies.
I personally really enjoyed the movie. Worked as a fun instalment to the Ant-man films which have never been that serious, Kang was fantastic. Modok was a bit silly but in a funny memable way so I don't mind too much. This film really excited me for more Kang and Loki season 2.
Calling it now: the living tribunal is going to get retconned as a merged kang with the 3 main ones we see fusing the essence of his multiple selves into judge of all the multiverse. It thematically fits
The best part was when Ant-man said “It’s morbin’ time” and then morb’ed Kang across the multiverse.
Let us not forget that He Who Remains final line was " see you soon " and our first true introduction to Kang is this movies villain
30:15 this is what they're going to do about Kang in the next Avengers team up. Iron Lad is a Kang variant who is approached by one of the dominant members of the Counsel of Kangs. After their meeting, Iron Lad decides he doesn't like what his future holds and does everything in his power to prevent Kang the Conquerer from becoming a reality in his branch of the timeline. In his efforts, Iron Lad will team up with the Avengers and some members of the Multiverse. Together with Iron Lad's understanding of the Kangs strengths and weaknesses, he will disclose their weakness. It might be his love for Ravonna Renslayer. Kang will finally conquerer and be with Ravonna but she will not accept him because of everything he has done and all the bad things he did to get back to her. In the comics there's no defeating a character like Kang, Galactus, The Celestials, etc You have to use your witts and hurt them emotionally. Leverage their internal weaknesses to force them into submission.
I've hardly ever wanted movies to lose money more than the past few Marvel offerings. They NEED at least one official MCU thing to fail miserably if they're going to get any better
Offerings lol
Just call them ritual sacrifices lol
Went in open minded wanting to enjoy a movie. I had a good time. I laughed and there was some good acting. solid, going 7.5 out of 10.
I think my big unknown with the other Kangs is "Why?" Like, why do they want to conquer the multiverse? I get The One Who Remains. He wanted control to prevent the chaos of the others. But why do the others want to create chaos? You're a super-genius. Start a mega multiverse space corporation or something. Kangdonald's. That's evil enough.
The only way for each Kang to avoid their universe being wiped out by another is to strike first.
great video Mr Tuesday Movies!
I still don't have the semblance of what the avengers even are now.
I feel since phase 4 we have had no idea who our protagonists or antagonists are.
Just mostly separate disjointed stories
I was personally insulted with every scene where the "ant" characters would retract their helmets during a life threatening situation/battle.
For the record: Janet is also a Wasp. Didn't say which one was the most important! Should have been called Antmans and the Wasps
THEORY: post credits when they talk about "they killed him" that they are actually talking about "he who remains" and not Kang. "He who remains" exiled himself at the end of time so think it could be a bluff from Marvel to make us think its Kang thats dead.
That's exactly the kind of bluff marvel do as well, you make a very fine point
So, why did they have the Giant Man problem in this movie? Getting big or even 10x as big as he got at the end of this movie is still insanely small to his normal walking around size. Why did he get hungry and tired from it? Is it less his absolute size and more his size in comparison to those around him or are we supposed to think they shrunk down so small, they got smaller than particles, and that got them to this other universe where they are actually their normal size although he did say something to the contrary to the telepathic guy.. Whaaa?
What if the advanced ants left in the quantum realm are the start of the annihilation wave?
It’s been months I used to listen weekly. Thanks for the review and getting back in the game
I just cannot fathom how this version of Kang supposedly killed multiple teams of Avengers and then loses to Ants crawling over him and eating his costume
I thought the point of the Multiversal War was that all the Kangs wanted to destroy eachother before the other got the chance to do it to them first (paranoia of coming face to face w absolute power). But then they’re all meeting together at the end like pals in that giant arena? So who the fuck are they fighting?
Kang is a rather lame villain to begin with. He has no super powers just future technology and he didnt even invent the time travel tech himself he just stumbled across what his ancestor created. So he is basically Booster Gold from DC and lost to a bunch of smart ants in his first movie.
I didn’t think it was that bad it definitely has its problems but I managed to shut down my “trope-sense” long enough to get some enjoyment from it