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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ธ.ค. 2021
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"So uncivilized"
I know that's probably nothing more than a OT reference, but I'd like to think it's directed at Grievous being this 'pocket sand'-level dirty fighter whereas Jedi and Sith both have rules of combat. Plinkett points out how odd it is for Obi-Wan to give GG a moment to take off his cape, but in TPM the Jedi and Maul both allow each other that same moment and also for Padme and co to shuffle on out. Dooku's "your swords please" line also hints at there being some kind of decorum for lightsaber fights. Grievous, on the other hand, sends goons, has that split-arm trick, and blows out a SPACEship's windshield. And in the Clone Wars cartoon (the cgi one), he pulls an Indiana Jones and shoots a Jedi in the middle of a swords fight... which ironically is how GG is himself killed. Obi-Wan had to lower himself to Grievous' "uncivilized" methods to win.
Hands down the best analysis out of every single “so uncivilized” theory in this comment section. I know, I read them all. Kudos
Out of the two, I like yours better.
Great analysis. Gave me an entirely new perspective :)
Or it's like the people who view lightsabers like katanas where anything else is garbage in comparison to the elegance of a blade.
I…thought this was always the default assumption? Why are there even “theories” about this? What other asinine explanation would someone need to explain a jedi referring to use of a blaster as “uncivilized”?
One thing about why they (the CIS) couldn't just hyperspace out of there after grabbing Palpatine.... before Disney took over, the gravity well of a planet PREVENTED hyperspace so one would have to get far enough away to actually do it....then TFA and Rogue One fucked all that up and made Hyperspace basically magic
Han hyperspaced out of Tatooine right after leaving the planet, the only delay was the navigation computer plotting a valid path. There are plenty of scenes in the Original Trilogy that shows ships entering hyperspace as soon as they leave a planet's atmosphere.
@@led-0185 This is just literally not true
@@led-0185 Han doesn’t start plotting a jump until he’s already a decent distance from the planet.
That... and all the ships around them shooting at them. Hyperspace is complicated enough without turbolasers going off everywhere.
Is that in the movie?
Rey and Kylo is the worst relationship in cinema history
oi, yeah.. forgot that was a thing...
Personally, I think bilbo's relationship with his arse is probably a better relationship
A worse love story than Twilight. 😅
Loki X Sylvie is another worst relationship.
•It’s out of character for Loki to have feeling for someone he barley knew.
•Sylvie is a nobody in comics, she was originally created from Loki’s magic, she’s not even a person.
•When they first met, they tried to kill each other even in the dialogue they didn’t really like each other.
•They only known each other for about a day.
•Sylvie is a copycat sue stealing Loki’s thunder until He who’s Kang called her a hypocrite, and to GROW UP!
•The self-cest thing, yes it’s a thing cosmonaut ever heard of the internet?
•Loki being Bi was a throwaway line, Marvel stop making it a big deal, focus more on the story and characterization, rather than the race, or sexual orientation.
Theres lifetime movies that make more sense!
But he took his shirt off? That’s love
You see, the reason Anakin had to kill the children was because he needed to earn a lot of Dark Side points, like how going on murder spree is the best way to earn evil points in InFamous.
In Robot Chicken, he visualized the kids as sunflowers and put them on Padme's table.
@@dragonknightleader1 somehow that makes it more horrifying lol
How much Dark Side points are each youngling worth? I can imagine them being 50+ points.
He needed to personally rid hundreds of innocents to keep his wife alive.
Plus they'd all grow up to be rats.
All in the dialogue obv.
EFAP just made me realize that Obi-Wan's shenanigans ended up both starting and ending the war.
Starting?
@@MegaSpideyman Obi Wan tangling with Jango and tracking him to Geonosis to have to be rescued by 100 Jedi in the first battle of the Clone Wars is what started the Clone Wars.
@@Necromancer4267 Ah, I see.
TY.
Dooku wasn't using an alias when he ordered the clones. He got a Jedi named Sifo-Dyas to order them.
I thought he impersonated Dyas who was already dead or something like that?
@@RipOffProductionsLLC No, he actually recruited Dyas. Dooku recruited Jango to be the template for the clones, though.
@@archstanton9073 it was big brain because dyas had no one else who would listen to him either so dyas wanted it secret until it was ready to convince the Jedi and dooku the same thing.
@@randalthekidd7006 using someone who was more militant or paranoid to order an army and have them killed after the order is made. Distancing yourself from the cloners. But it is undermined in the Clone Wars with the Kaminoans listening to Sidious’ orders.
You seem to be basing this on EU information? The movie leaves it ambiguous, plus implies it was an impostor after he died - "I was under the impression he died before that", or whatever that line was.
44:14 That's a very valid point, and the Bane Trilogy addresses this. In "Path of Destruction", the Sith recuits are taught how to put up essentially a invisible "force shield" that nullifies force energy used against them, if their willpower is strong enough. (Think Force Aura from KOTOR. Same effect) This makes Force Powers less easy to use against an opponent.
It's a shame that they never established that as a rule in the movies, cause that's a good way to make lightsabers more relevant when two force users engage in combat.
"Padme and Anakin is the worst relationship in cinema"
Man, even in that the prequels were beated by the sequels.
Yeah. At least on paper, there was something even though rhyming you with you is lazy AF. Rey and Kylo actually work against character motivations.
@@dragonknightleader1 The RLM guys raked George over the coal for letting the decades of pop-culture hype surrounding Vader influence his writing. The Disney writers somehow managed to do the same in just a few short years by listening to the rabid ReyLo shippers.
Huh, Reylo looked good on screen unlike awful AotC and uneven Rots with the 1 funny dialogue scene - the only thing that's comparable to Clones is Rosefinn but that was like 5 seconds.
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer what's adupb
@@username45739 "looked good"
Yeah, the 19 year old girl falling in love with the 30 year old man who captured her, mind-raped her, and killed her father figure... totally looked good.
Holy shit, the first Star Wars EFAP since #122, when they were covering the Mandolorian. It's almost been 11 months.
"wHy wOn'T EFAP sToP tAlKiNg aBoUt stAr waRs?!?!"
Book of Boba will be out 27-Dec-2021 🙌 maybe Mando, Rag's best friend, is in it. - smugross -
@@Unknown-hb3id "for NOUGH REASON"
Ah yes, 122, when a portion of the unlisted gang went full Mask-Off and revealed just how little they cared about anything EFAP has ever said, beyond “sequels bad”.
‘You can’t be mean to Star Wars theory after he bit the head off a reasonable member of his chat! He had cancer 15-20 years ago, and I’m subscr-I MEAN, he’s a good youtuber! Stop being mean rags, and only rags!’
@@sparkypack 29th of December 2021 washed up Boba Fett is back in his own series.
He now is a main character & suddenly he helps people out (Mando Season 2).
What happened to the "Book" of your father, Jango?
Always tell half the truth to people/ an enemy for e.g. Iam convinced that the Sarlacc melted his brain 🧠.
I look forward to Mando (season 3) - probably in 2023 if the show & streaming series strikes continues. Which I am in full support of - like the events surrounding Alec Baldwin being no exception on an Untied States of the America film set & the "fake" weapons for the medium film.
Dangerous!
⚠️Spoilers from start to the final episode of Mando Season 2⚠️
It will be quiet entertaining to see how Jon Favreau is able to present a more flashed out Din Jarin (Mando).
If the child doesn't return they really need to redifine his character traits. His aversion to droids was understandable. Furthermore his strict code at the beginning could at least be developed. I felt nothing when saying goodbye to the child. Season 2 final seemed rushed & a exciting set up for season 3 is missing. I'll wouldn't call Bo-Katan vs. Mando exciting rather conscripted.
Katee Sackhoff wooden & stiff acting didn't help either during that scene. Maybe she was as confused as we where while watching this popular Disney+ streaming show.
It's totally a headcanon thing, and doesn't work with the Disney movies, but I've always liked the idea that the reason the republic fleet entangles itself with the separatists is to prevent them from hyperspacing. That the close proximity and chaos interferes with their ability to make the jump and that obi wan and anakin ordered their fleet in close to lock down Grievous. Don't know if that holds up with the Lucas films but that's what I've liked to think.
It does. To escape into hyperspace requires using hyperspace lanes. Block access to those lanes and the enemy can't escape. This is why in Empire, the Rebels needed to incapacitate the Imperial Star Destroyers rather than simply flee the opposite direction.
I love how when you go to the Wookiepedia article for hyperspace, every "reckless" for lack of a better term, use of hyperspace listed on there was in Disney canon
@@corruptangel6793
Naw, Hyperspace lanes are supposed to work like trade lanes on the sea, they're mapped, safe routes to places, not the only places you can jump like it's a gate system. It's always clear in the films that you can jump from anywhere to anywhere else as long as you calculate around gravity wells. I mean, otherwise wouldn't they notice the Hyperspace lane to Kamino was pointing to nowhere? Is there a Hyperspace lane from Hoth to Dagobah for Luke to use, and if so what the hell was that built for?
@@CruelestChris I'm not saying it works like Mass Effect where you have to go through point A to reach point B (though it is somewhat similar in the Expanded Universe, the old one at least) but it's clear that, at the very least, going outsystem isn't something that can be done from just anywhere or any direction. There is at least one designated exit route that must be used. Otherwise blockades like at Hoth or Endor and Naboo would be useless. Blockades would have to be more like what we see in ROTS where all the ships are practically touching eachother from every angle.
@@corruptangel6793
Eh, the blockades work with the gravity well concept (you need to reach X distance from the planet before you can jump) and having it only be that is more in line with the films. Like, when they're escaping from Tattooine, Han's talking about the need to make the calculations for their jump, not the need to reach the entry point of some kind of lane. And as I recall, the EU explanation for what was going on at Endor was that there were Interdictors in the Imperial fleet, not that they were being blocked from getting to a particular place.
6:31:00 I think the whole line about mocking Vader's religion to his face still works, with or without the context of the prequels. It just shows how successful the Emperor was, making the Jedi look weak. 'What good is the Force, but an ancient, outdated tradition that couldn't stop the Empire when it came to power?'
It's a fine line, no issue at all about people being old enough to remember Jedi.
Post prequels it just shows they had actual might
I don’t agree.
I mean Vader is basically saying the Dark Side is totally lit and the Death Star is the big lame by comparison, and the ability to strangle one dude and the get told off for it like he's Tarkin's dog kind of doesn't prove his point there.
I still remember EFAP #66, when they talked about The Rise of Skywalker. I can’t believe how long it’s been!!!
Me too, man. I had to double check if that was actually true.
Even weirder when you realise Wolf "officially" left the previous episode....
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 I know, right? Also, WOW!!! I love your vids, especially the Batwoman compilation! :)
Damn 2 years.......Damn
That was the first episode of EFAP I ever watched!
The time has come. Execute EFAP 166.
It will be done my Lord.
*monster voice
Once more, Objectivity will rule the galaxy. And there... will... be... peace.
EFAP fans are cringe.
@@spenser9908 okay. There’s the door.
@@Party_Almsivi But why all the cringe jokes? Can’t you be cool?
There is a few things I agree with Doug Walker about, one is Hayden Christensen's facial acting, his actions, and some of his line readings are actually pretty good. He had shit dialogue written for him.
I didn't expect to see him praised in an EFAP comment section!
@@MegaSpideyman Something, something, broken clock...
bc the EFAP comment section cant seperate the EU from actual film production bc they have a condition called autism@@MegaSpideyman
@@domikdefamed7863 I don't see how that connects to what I said.
Nostalgia critic!
I’m pretty sure “so uncivilized” is supposed to be a riff on “an elegant weapon from a more civilized age”, which Obi-Wan said while showing the saber to Luke.
I mean... Obviously, right?
As to the 1000 years 1000 generation topic covered it wasn’t contradictory. The revenge of the sith said that it was ending 1000 years of the senate. While Obi-wan was saying that the Jedi were guardians of peace throughout the galaxy for 1000s of generations. That just means that the Jedi order predates the senate/ galactic republic.
It was 1000 for both lines, not 100
@@lowesmanager8193 sorry typo
Especially when you consider the Old Republic.
The EU sometimes plays with this by having several collapses of the Republic over the centuries with the First, Old, New and Great republics listed in various places…
No, but Obi-Wan says a thousand generations _in the old Republic_ . It's rather more likely that Lucas just forgot what he'd said it was a thousand of.
EFAP doing a Star Wars episode? Must be Christmas! Lol. Speaking of which, Merry Christmas to the massive EFAP hosts.
The superior holiday
@@dickcheesemcgee6978 Tell that to August 21st
Merry Crimbes 🎄🎄🎄
Let's not forget about TFA part 4!
That’s kind.
EFAP Crew, Episode #133 (at 3:02:37): “I have an important life lesson for you, evil is subjective.”
EFAP Crew, Episode #166 (at 1:47:10): “The biggest red flag someone can say is ‘Good and evil are just points of view.’”
So what we have here is Rags arguing with Rags about the nature of morality. *grabs popcorn*
can we get timestamps for that?
@@Scortch-lo3xy Found when Rags goes on his “evil is subjective” tangent in #133
@@occultnightingale1106 nice
@@Scortch-lo3xy Okay, found the timestamp for #166
@@occultnightingale1106 thanks so much.
I think the Jedi Temple fight should have been set up as Palpatine tells Anakin that the secrets to immortality are in the Jedi Archive, so he has to secure the Temple to get to it. Palpatine knows the Jedi have probably started getting word about Order 66 so they're ready. So Anakin shows up in force and the Jedi defend themselves, and the whole time Anakin is telling them to surrender, but the Jedi are fighting for their lives, and Anakin is getting more and more frustrated because he knows the time of Padme's death is getting closer (I would have established a ticking clock for the visions where they get closer and ramp up Anakin's desperation) and by the end he's just screaming SURRENDER with tears streaming down his face in pain and also using his pain and fear to fuel his power.
For the kids, yeah, I'd have him tell the kids to stay there and stay safe and he tells the 501st where kids are, expecting them to keep them safe but Palpatine hid the meaning of Order 66 from him so we see Anakin walk away to go deal with other shit, the music gets ominous, and tye pair of recognizably marked troopers enter the room and tye door closes. Later we see those two troopers delivering a report about the dozen "enemy combatants" they eliminated. If Anakin even hears this he's too numb at this point to even register it or care. He has the data disk. Padme is safe. That's all that matters.
George Lucas said in an interview: "It's a family soap opera, ultimately... It's all about family problems-it's not about spaceships." While that doesn't excuse the lack of development in the prequels, it highlights how George's primary focus was on the story of Anakin, and to a lesser degree Obi-Wan among others, and everything from their perspective. Honestly my biggest criticism with the prequels is that it feels like there's a lot missing, it almost makes me wish it was a series with each film being a ten episode season. I love the goofiness and awkward dialogue, I just wish there was more and that character relationships, politics, and intrigue were all way more developed.
Yep. They could be rewritten for sure and expanded on without worrying about the deadline of movie releases or production costs.
It's like he had a fully fleshed out story, and then got hyper focused on the exact wrong part of it. There's so much depth and cool stuff in the prequels, and we never get to see any of it.
Yep, the scope of the PT was too great for just 3 movies
In the first film there was no family relationship between any of the characters nor was it even conceives as such. Lucas added all that later
@@abooga8 beside the vision and high concept, most of the film is really a testament to Coppola's work. After that Lucas kept finding ways to squeeze money from the jump, it lead to innovation in film and gaming, but he steered away from that and lead it to sale.
I got to say, my affection for the prequels probably actually stems from all the media that surrounded them, more than the films themselves. But the thing the films did, and I give Lucas all the credit for, is expand the universe of star wars massively. Some things had shown up in the EU books and games prior, but a good portion of that was based on Lucas 's notes. I agree that the core of a good story was there, but was poorly executed, meanwhile the Sequels, it was a poor to nonexistent story, presented in excellent fashion. The OT isn't perfect either, with the first actually being the weakest in my opinion.
@@pyerack
The problem is that they can't even copy A New Hope properly. TFA is a botched clone.
@@sacredbeastzenon They copied all the points, but not the lines connecting them
The OT isn’t bad by any means though even when it could have been
lol star wars have no expanded universe its the same three things over and over and if they dont remake the same movie its just a disaster.
@@Laketwig You obviously never read any of the books (prior to the Disney take over).
Mr. Plinkett: Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary! (Rich Evans laugh)
"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!" shall be our battle cry
In Revenge of the Sith, the conversation between Anakin and Dooku (and Obi-Wan talking about "taking him together this time") clearly references their encounter in Attack of the Clones, but The Clone Wars adds in multiple interactions between Anakin and Dooku; meaning you either have to disregard the show or pretend that the scene didn't refer to what it obviously, and logically, was intended to.
Not really fair to blame ROTS for that given that TCW came after.
@@donnyannessa654 I'm not. It was a criticism of the common mentality that both embraces The Clone Wars and insists on the canon. The spirit of continuity is clearly damaged by TCW, in a way that weakens a scene in Episode III.
It makes more sense with the genndy cartoon
I think the plan was to have Anakin try to solo Dooku one more time before the close of the series, but then Disney hijacked the final season to create links to Rebels, meaning it never happened. I also think it was supposed to close at about 8 seasons.
Supposedly there was also supposed to be stuff to get Anakin from Palawan hair to the longer hair of RotS but again, Disney.
To give a bit of credit to clone wars they actually managed to ensure anakin and grevious didn’t meet until ROTS
2:29:00 It’s a clunky line for sure, but I’m pretty sure that “only a Sith deals in absolutes” is supposed to be a direct response to “IF YOU’RE NOT WITH ME, THEN YOU’RE MY ENEMY”. ‘Dealing in absolutes’ is supposed to describe the “you’re either with me or against me” mentality; it’s not saying that Jedi can’t be absolute about anything. That was literally never established as an aspect of the Jedi philosophy and is never reflected anywhere else in any of George’s films, let alone this one. The Jedi are absolute about _a lot_ of things and there’s really no pretense otherwise.
So yeah, the line sucks, but I also don’t think I have to be super charitable in order to see the intended meaning behind it; all of the context for it was in Anakin’s previous line.
I guess the line *sorta* makes sense as a response to Anakin, but it still comes off as a bit of a non-sequiter in that scene, as well as being just not true in general. Which is is why it sticks out for a lot of people I think
@@wakerobin9215 Non-sequitur is a good way to describe it. It would do better replaced by a bit more back and forth with Obi-Wan remarking on Anakin's unreasonable turn, and Anakin attempting to justify what he's done and getting more angry as the obvious holes in his logic prick at him until he finally attacks.
@@wakerobin9215 I mean it’s more like only a sith would blindly barrel forward towards an absolute path. Anakin also did this in Mortis when he resigned to becoming his worse self.
A Jedi believes the force has a will but actions are fluid and the future can only be glimpsed at but isn’t assured to be what is assumed.
Nearly every prequel problem comes from a lack of understanding rather than it being a real problem.
@@randalthekidd7006 Except that...isn't what the line says...? I understand prequel apologists tend to be delusional, but you...do realize trying to stretch something as laughable on the face of it piece of dialogue as 'only a Sith deals in absolutes' to mean 'w-well, only a Sith...uh, charges into a situation...absolutely?' is geniunely a vaguely impressive and frightening amount of mental gymnastics, right? I need you to stop slurping on Daddy Lucas' unmentionables. It isn't healthy, for the love of fucking God above. The. Prequels. Are. Shit. The world, by and large, didn't come to this conclusion because they just had it wrong all along, and that Daddy Lucas' masterpieces were just...uh, too high IQ, I guess.
Jesus fucking Christ, its just....astonishing how pathetically little self awareness you people have. Is this what we are all in for in a few decades or so, when the people who grew up on the sequels start coming of age and dominating the Internet? 'No, no, guys, you just don't GET IT! Rose Tico is one of the BEST characters EVER put on screen! Save what you love, guys, it's brilliant! What do you MEAN its dumb, Sean? NUH-UH!'
@@wakerobin9215 Why wouldn’t it be assumed to begin with, that the line was a direct response to the thing that Anakin just said to him? Prequels are shit and all but I really don’t think I’m reaching here.
On the subject of the movie not "looking like Star wars is supposed to" , red letter media, as much as I like their work, have this sort of mistaken idea that people only like the original trilogy because it is exactly the way that it is and that no one is interested in the setting of Star wars or the universe beyond what we see in episodes 4 5 and 6. I think Rich Evans said at one point that Star wars isn't like marvel because they don't have this deep universe they can draw on with lots of characters so they're going to run out of material faster. And I have to say I find that view to be not just limited but inaccurate.
Several decades worth of Extended Universe material would disagree with Evans claims.
Nah... He was completely right. I remember what a massive failure was that obscure Star Wars RPG made by Bioware. Didn't the events of that game supposedly happened thousands of years before the OT? Ridiculous, right? Not a big surprise what that game didn't even receive a sequel or a MMO spin-off.
@@BigBroTejano not canon. Also he said that of the movies too, the material around doesn't matter.
@@hikari67 even if we take said extra content into account, some of it still repeats the beats established by the OT. The KoTOR game, for example, takes place thousands of years prior to Episode One, but barely anything is different; you still have an evil empire, a good Republic, a doomsday weapon, even the tech is mostly the same. At least the sequel explored new ideas and themes.
@@TheNemesis432 he didn't argue that Star Wars media is doomed to fail nor was he talking about other media, so the success of the game is irrelevant. What he said was that Star Wars, as a setting, is limited in regards to the narrative being told in the films, which is somewhat true. I say "somewhat" because the Star Wars universe isn't inherently limited, it's just that the writers keep making the same choices, repeating the same beats.
The "loads of capital ships close to eachother" was a tactic done in Episode 6 where they wanted to stay close to the Star Destroyers because of the Death Star II. It wasn't to the same extent as Episode 3, but it was explained literally this way in the movie by I think Ackbar and Calrissian
The OT are like fresh baked chocolate chip cookies. The Prequels are like oatmeal raisin cookies, not my favorite but i still like them. The Sequels are like lumps of shit with raisins in them.
More like the ST are stale chocolate cookies from 38 years ago.
@@pyerack the most accurate description of the sequels I’ve ever heard
Well put.
Still, now I want cookies.
The OT: A satisfying healthy poop.
The prequels: I gots the diarrhea.
The Sequels: Doctor. There's woke Mary Sue in my stool.
@@albertdeluxe8966 Imma say: maybe don't equivoque the ot with the act of defecating..?
Still, I get ya, here's a like, just for making me smile.
Plinkett was tricked by both TFA and based on the scene he put in here, even New-trek initially.
His little opening jab at “drooling idiots fooled by the pretty lights” seems a bit like projection in retrospect, eh? JJ fooled him good.
He was talking about Abrams directing and clarified in his Rise of the Skywalker video that Abrams shouldn't write his own scripts.
@@revolverswitch Quietly? They've been hella vocal.
@@nachgeben Sort of. As @Aaron Justice said, he recommended that JJ not write scripts, which doesn't work because they're also proponents of the writer/director method and JJ got his start as a writer for Michael Bay movies. He still doesn't address the core problems JJ movies typically have such as nostalgia bait or how the mystery boxes don't have payoffs. Even when he did recommend JJ by name in the Star Trek review, it was sus because the Star Trek 09 movie itself is a mess plot and character-wise, but because it was a "fast-paced, exciting, and adventurous," he gave it a pass on that basis. His Into Darkness and Picard reviews are also lacking in the depth that's expected out of a Plinkett review. Good lord are those media bad on so many levels.
Mike isn’t nearly as smart as he thinks he is.
@@aaronjustice9020 A nice attempt at backtracking by Mike, such an asinine coward. Goal post shifting can’t change the terrible films and low level thinking that these “reviews” inspired.
I’ve been looking forward to this… unironically, that meme is more applicable here than ever.
"good and evil are just points of view"
Cinema Roberto: "you have my attention"
This is where the fun begins
"It's really hard to comeback as a character after having executed many children" -MauLer, 2021
Really shows that MauLer has a kind spot for children. Killing Younglings was a step WAY too far and it shows that Anakin’s lost his sense of morality.
@@MoskHotel He cried on Mustafar after doing that. He knows it is awful, but there's no choice - either he does it and gets his wife, power and freedom, or he is a Jedi and will be killed by clones.
Peacemaker?
@juscbhbhuvsdsdvbhjwsdv3843 No I don't. I'm saying that even that kind of a villain can have a redemption arc (by self sacrifice of course) and we are allowed to feel sorry for him.
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer What do you mean "you people"?
I took "So uncivilized" as a callback to the original movie, and Obi-Wan's line about a light saber hearkening back to "a more civilized age", in contrast to the "clumsy... random" blaster.
best interpretation ive heard
Yet blasters are never seen to be random, nor clumsy.
Fun fact: In French the translators completely missed that. Every other language nailed it.
France: "What a lack of education"
Quebec: "What a sort of savage."
th-cam.com/video/_hUoPk4iWeU/w-d-xo.html
Right when obi wan says that line, he is referring to blasters lacking gallantry and honor
I think the complaint isn't so much the line itself, but the context it's in. The gun literally just saved his life.
In ROS Palpatine wanted Anakin and Obi-Wan to save him. He expected Dooku to kill Obi-Wan and then die so Anakin was closer to Palpatine.
Not explained in the movie but the novel directly shows how Palpatine wanted it to go, and you see Grievous get frustrated that they are stuck there. Grievous directly says "We should've left hours ago!" so even he didn't know the plan.
However I think you can piece together what's happening. Palpatine clearly wanted Anakin to kill Dooku and wanted Obi-Wan gone. Later on you see Palpatine play at Anakin's woes to push him away from the Jedi. So I can infer that it was Palpatine using the CIS as a means to an end
Edit: Mace "won" but Palpatine was faking it. He could sense Anakin was on his way and decided to really shove Anakin into the deep in. Palpatine was certainly ready to strike at Windu if Anakin just stood there, I doubt he'd risk everything on one distinction.
In the EU Anakin really hates Windu and sees Palps as a friend due to Palpatine constantly pushing Anakin ahead and being a friendly face to Anakin even throughout this film. Plus, it's reasonable that Anakin doesn't like Windu given that everytime they share the screen Windu activity distrusts and even is antagonistic, from Anakin's point of view.
I agree with Anakin going way to far way to fast. It wasn't blind rage like the sand people thing, he just was murder happy I guess.
#1. Nobody gives a shit about any "novels." We're talking about the MOVIE.
#2. There's already enough IN Revenge of the Sith to infer how Palpatine was hoping that would play out with Dooku. EFAP didn't *need* an argument from "the novels" to convince them that the Kaminoans were in on Palpatine's plan, so they don't need "the novels" to convince them of something even MORE reasonable. Just argue from the film. It wouldn't take that much to convince them, *especially* assuming they don't already basically agree with the idea at base.
@@eidolon1426 #1. You didn't need to split your commit it too.
#2. I felt it was worth including as quick note that helps explain how the world worked, and the explain in the universe as a whole.
#3. My main point still stands, that Palpatine had planned this out.
@@bucketmanpalemin9603
#1. It was two separate points, therefore it was given two separate points.
#2. It *doesn't* help explain how the world works. This is EFAP. You *know* that "third-party materials" are basically just fan-fiction when we are discussing the official mainline continuity.
#3. I *agree* with your main point. I always liked how Palpatine's plan was made up of "win-win" scenarios. The only time he *doesn't* get anything that he wants is the moment he dies in ROTJ, as Luke doesn't get corrupted by the Dark Side OR die, because *Vader* takes the fall for him.
It's all nice and neat and wrapped up in a little bow that makes Palpatine one of the most competent fucking characters that has ever been written. I love it. And I agree with you whole-heartedly on your main point.
I just don't think it's relevant (or valid) to go to third-party materials to try to *make* that point.
And #4. I don't mean to come off as antagonistic. It's just the way I type. It's very direct. I actually have no hard feelings towards you, I just organize my counter-arguments in a way that sounds like I'm being hostile.
So far it's either that or I have people who try to warp everything I say into a Strawman... So I chose the direct option of saying exactly what I mean even if it sounds like I'm being an asshole when I'm not.
I'd rather that than ever having to deal with an infinite loop of Strawmen again. So, you know, sorry for any inconvience.
@@eidolon1426 fair enough. I just bring it up as it's a direct answer. I should leave out "third party" stuff in the future.
My brain reads all the things I know as part of the same story, so it's natural for me to reference it. On top of that last time I watched the film was a week ago but I've been reading the book since then, so it's more fresh in my mind
Glad we're on the same page.
@@eidolon1426 While I agree that 3rd party evidence shouldnt be used, but where do we draw the line? Like if they are in the same trilogy then its fine. But, is it fine if two movies are set in the same universe but are not connected per se? Do we differentiate between animated and live action movies? If not, then for example why isnt the tcw show a good justification?
"Did Darth Vader have to be a violent murderer?"
My good man Dr. Plinkett, have you seen STAR WARS?
*insert compilation of Rebel commanders and Imperial officers being choked out*
I think it's more the incompatibility of Vader being "Orderly Evil," no-nonsense eliminating incompetence within and not wasting time on low-level guerrillas to get to the 'Main Sauce', to Anakin's rather "I'm a wet dream away from being a school shooter" kind of "Chaotic Evil" vibe.
@@WreckingWood Maybe he cooled off a little bit as he got older
@@WreckingWood In the first appearance of Darth Vader ever he enters a captured space ship walking through a corridor with a bunch of freshly shot corpses to proceed to choke their superior to death by hand while interrogating him and angrily throw his collapsed body against a wall.
The notion of Vader being too posh to get his hands dirty, let alone him not being a violent and a cold-blooded killer is absurd.
@@incubussatyrius4965 What's absurd is making him a child murderer... oh yeah George did exactly that...
@@apexprimebest Not at all. People apparently just have a hard time grasping what the Sith are and represent.
It's only jarring how quick he turned in the movie.
Then again, this sheer dangerously magical pull of the Dark Side has been introduced in EP V and VI already, with Yoda explaining how even "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will", and the - from a IRL perspective - incredibly tismy expectation of the Emperor that this young Skywalker lad will of course join him if he gets him to just hate ole Palps strong enough by killing his friends and movement in plain view.
Dark Side's a hell of a drug, kids.
Once more, the Unlisted will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace.
But this premiered directly to Mooler....Oh,I'm afraid your friends on the forest moon of Endor are very much listed.....
@@benjamingrant5970 It's treason then...
@@Edax_Royeaux The Chat will decide your fate
@@benjamingrant5970 Witness the discovability of this fully premiered and listed video
2:11:54 Also, just a subtle reminder that all younglings in the Jedi Temple are wards of the Jedi, as to be a youngling, the Jedi either negotiate for the custody of the children from their birth parents, or just take them, basically making them orphans. To say that Anakin would be okay killing orphans, with no rhyme or reason, when he himself remembers the gut-wrenching decision to leave his mom behind on Tatooine is absolutely self-destructive to his character.
Also could be seen as the lengths he'll go to to keep his love alive.
@@mccor002 idk man, Anakin's goal is to wipe out the jedi, I get that. But it takes a special circumstance to convince someone to cleave an innocent kid, let alone 10, singlehandedly to save his wife which he only feels is threatened after a bad dream. And I know Anakin killed sand people, but that was the raw vengeance from killing his mom. I'm really hard pressed to find a good reason.
@@gibbonsplays8706 Palpatine says he must kill *everyone* to get strong enough in the dark side to save Padme. His motivation is clear enough.
6:16:26 - JFC you guys are completely missing the point. Mike (Mr Plinkett) is not saying that all CGI is bad, he’s just arguing that the extent that Lucas used it in the prequels is ridiculous and not necessary.
@@thorthewolf8801 just have him order the clones to do it. His transition from “what have I done” to killing kids is laughably fast.
Plinkett prefaces his CGI argument with saying it CAN be done really well and also says he doesn’t know if it’s the CGI or bad direction.
Yeah but when they get confronted with an opinion that's too difficult for them to actually refute, they just seemingly misunderstand what the is opinion is. Pretty much most of the arguments that were presented by RLM are all completely valid and the only ones that are a little zany and ridiculous were meant to be that way for comedy sake. It's kind of really cringe seeing these guys try to jump all over his arguments, when he's speaking nothing but the truth.
@@lukedavis1436 there not intentionally trying to disagree with him on everything they agree on him with something’s
Yeah, they missed this point and then complained about it for like 2 hours.
Otherwise pretty good video.
So the part where Plinkett says no one is going to remember Dexter Jester or no memorable scenes in prequels is simply truth?
@@esotericVideos Also, are they implying that the cgi in ep 3 was good? Because no, it wasn't. It was and still is horrible in most places.
You know why I liked the EU so much? Because all that character potential with people like Dooku and Windu is actually explored in the EU. Makes the prequels so much better. Not talking about the clone wars show btw
@Shorube
Eh, that whole thing with the Suncrusher (fighter that can blow up stars and tank a shot from a prototype Death Star) is the best argument _for_ Brexit.
Were they, though?
@@CruelestChris Just don't bring that up, we may end up with something just as absurd in canon if people keep speaking about it (looking at Palpatine's resurection).
I thought the “Darth Plagueis” novel by James Luceno was great and added a lot to the prequel trilogy, especially “TPM”.
What’s wrong with the clone wars cartoon?
"Sith Lords are our specialty" could be referring less to the result of their previous encounter with a Sith Lord but that Sith Lords are what they've specifically trained towards dealing with. Regardless of losing to Dooku before, Anakin and Obi-wan might be the only Jedi who have experience in facing a Sith Lord and so better know how to prepare for an encounter against one in the future.
(Obi-wan also defeated Darth Maul, so he's at least 1 and 1.)
The line could also be to reassure the Chancellor or psyche themselves up before the fight. If you want to win a fight, you have to have the mindset that you can win that fight. Taking the honest route and admitting that they lost to him before would lower their morale and prepare them to lose. Granted, since it's not the most honest remark, it might be more appropriate if Anakin had said it.
Personally, I think the line is fine.
That line is literally prequel Obi Wan 101. It is his character.
100% works, it’d be like Spider-Man saying “Super villains are my specialty.” Spider-Man whilst more often then not coming out victorious has lost numerous battles, sometimes multiple times in the same issue. It doesn’t really matter the success necessarily but it’s what he does, he fights super villains. Jedi are trained to combat the Sith, line totally works
The Sith were a myth in TPM how did they become a whole species in RoS
Who knows? LMAO
Dooku is NOT a Sith
@@thomasmuandersontheneousul4184 Dude...the Sith are not Myth's in the Phantom Menace, they are literally thought to have been destroyed up until Maul showed up. They in the eyes of the Jedi were gone from the Galaxy.
Now this is podcasting
Here’s how I see the Star Wars Prequels (1-3). They are really good first drafts.
You watch em and can understand what George Lucas was trying to tell, BUT there is room for improvement and discussions on what possible changes could be made to make the message stronger.
Sequels are a shit first draft written by a first grader learning how to write paragraphs. You have to redo the whole thing.
Yes this is what happen when you have a story to tell.
that st take is dumb lmo, when a few tweaks like adding some background info would've fixed the problems you're complaining about
So true. I couldn't have said it better myself😁👍👍👏👏👏
Yeah, I agree
@@username45739 the only way for the sequel trilogy to even resemble a good story is a complete front to back rewrite. A million "tweaks" couldn't fix that story
Oh to go back to a time before Disney bought Star Wars and the prequels were the worst movies...
Now we're just in a constant loop of constant Disney Star Wars...
Say what you will about Lucas but at least he took a break and allowed other mediums to continue the franchise and not just pump out the next product...
yep... sad to see how low we've gotten :(
He is responsible for selling his IP to a global corrupt corporation that will never let it go, why should I give the man any credit for basically destroying his series permanently? We are never gonna leave this situation, Disney will forever be dragging this franchise in the dirt till they either blow up as a business at the heat death of the Universe, or they just stop producing for the IP once they finally make everyone totally unconcerned for it anymore.
@@stormcutter59 he put KK in charge. He thought the franchise was in safe hands, the most we can criticise him for is that he put his trust in the wrong people. He donated the money to charity, I think you will find that at least somewhat credit worthy
@@thorthewolf8801 Sure I'll give him credit for that, but he should have been smarter about KK. She was the wrong choice from the start. I don't know what they're relationship was, but I'd say the man got punked since he's been treated like crap ever since he made the deal. A women like that should have given you some hints that she wasn't going to take care of your series with the best intentions. George should have entrusted his series to someone that shared his vision, someone he knew he could give it to. Maybe he didn't have that person? Idk, but he shouldn't have given it to Disney, that much is obvious. Clearly the look on his face spelled out how he felt about it too. Makes me wonder why he even did it.
@@stormcutter59 Tell that to Mark Hamill's snapped neck. 🤭
I was wondering yesterday when they would do both Plinkett and ROTS.
I have been looking forward to this.
Just using the info in the movie I would say what Palps is doing in the opening is building sympathy for himself, ridding himself of a potential threat in Dooku and prepping Anakin (or if Anakin dies he still has Dooku), building a climate of fear in the Republic to further push his authoritarian measures and whittling down the Separatist numbers
What I still want to know is if Palpatine somehow knew the only Jedi or two that would be in the area to rescue him were Anakin and Kenobi. What if it had just been hairy-slug Jedi who showed up first, and then Dooku executes that guy... do the Separatists just carry through with this faux kidnapping, and Palpy gets to have a little vacation from politics? Or would he definitely WANT to be "rescued" by Jedi, so he'd just have to awkwardly wait for more good guys to show up? What if Anakin showed up but with a DOZEN Jedi, like since we're literally at the capital of the Republic, and we're always seeing multitudes of Jedi still sitting on their asses in the temple of Coruscant. Palpy might've been recovered, Dooku killed or captured, and Anakin would've had too many other Jedi around to be swayed further by Palpy, thus making the plot a total dud. Did Palpy influence Anakin and Kenobi to be the only heroes who make it there? Can he do that?
@@kylefrank638 well he planned it himself and knows the schedules and deployments of the Jedi. He knew they were on the planet in clone wars season 7 and he knew he would be relatively close and dooku could kill most of the Jedi they sent besides skywalker.
So yeah he planned it and it’s not super hard with his info
@@kylefrank638
I mean getting Anakin closer to the Dark side and Dooku killed were up sites but the primary goal to use this to get even more emergency powers would work as long as he rigged the game enough to insure he could be rescued with he definitively could with Dooku.
Even if the Separatist would have run away with Dooku could he always insure he could be rescued from were ever they bring him.
This is one of the best part of Palpatins plan actually.
Most ancient conspiracy stories have the issue that things must happen exactly as planed which seem contrived. But Palpatins plan is designed so that even failure can be turned into victory (as an example Padme making it to the Senat could have been a "game over" situation but he quickly manipulated her to gain even more support with the vote of no confidence.
Palpatins plan can still work even if issues should occur because he doesn't depend on just 1 solitary moment to work perfectly.
So he was technically lucky to get 3 wins at ones (pulling Anakin closer to the light, Dooku eliminated, more sympathy points in the senate) but his plan always insured at least one.
I thought of a way to solve two problems at once: why they don’t detect the clones coming in at all and why Obi Wan makes the idiotic decision to jump down and announce himself surrounded by droids. First, have a couple less droids in the meeting so it’s not utter suicide. Then, have a droid at a computer that comes up with a warning “objects detected entering from hyperspace/entering atmosphere.” Have Obi Wan notice this, and notice the droid get up and start to walk toward Grevious. Then have Obi Wan jump down and announce himself, to make it clear he is doing it as a distraction, and while it may not be the best way for him to win, he is stalling to provide the clones enough time to make a surprise attack, and he knows he can handle himself long enough for them to arrive. This fixes both issues and adds to the character of Obi Wan while only requiring one or two extra shots being edited in and possibly a few droids being edited out. Practically an edit a fan could do
@Jaffar there is literally nothing to suggest that either the droids know that clones have arrived, or that Obi Wan knows that the droids know that clones are here. We get no lines, no background details, not even an ounce of implication. If you seriously thought this was what actually happened before I mentioned it, then you are straight up writing for the movie
@Jaffar to add, the CIS was hiding on Utapau. Scanning systems would be detectable, which defeats the purpose of hiding.
I like your idea. A subtle edit that makes the plot a little more coherent.
@Jaffar I'm with you on this one
Yeah, a slight adjustment where the CIS are about to launch an ambush on the Clone Army arriving and that forces Kenobi to drop down and surprise them and they forget to authorize the ambush.
1:40:45 The thing that pisses me off so much about this is that in good Clone Wars cartoon, Grievous is a fucking badass. Like in his first scene he takes on 4 full fledged Jedi and a Padawan while he still only has 2 arms, wields a 3rd with his foot, manages to kill 3 of them and injure a 4th, Not to mention his absolutely awesome assault on Naboo when he has 4 arms. Oh, and they do use the force on him multiple times. It doesn't work cause Grievous is so badass he just tanks it. Hell, Mace "Bad Motherfucka" Wendu only manages to injure Grievous when he gets the drop on him and crushes his chest with the force. It took all that to give him a raspy cough.
Sucks Tartovsky had a much better idea of what Grievous could have been in the Prequels than Lucas.
@@lordkrauser I think part of the issue there though was Episode 3 was made back when we were just figuring out CGI. They couldn't have done anything more extreme than what was shown. Though I guess the next logical question then is why even bother!? Especially when you have to neuter one of the coolest characters in the series. Yes, I'm going off entirely surface level rule of cool. It's not my fault Gendy did such a good job as hype man.
So in other words, Grievous was made stupidly overpowered to contrive something that could actually threaten the Jedi? I suppose I understand the writers' predicament; the presence of the Force had made it difficult to create tension in Star Wars. We have numerous characters with multifaceted mental powers that operate with whatever limits (or lack thereof) are required to make scenes "cool", so the only way to challenge them is to insert someone whose has the same powers, but a greater degree.
@@AstralDragoon No, he was a Jedi hunter specifically made and trained to defeat them. He fights in an unorthidox manor and fights intellegently as well as skillfully. He doesn't just pimp in like Homelander and wipe everyone out with sheer brute force, he has methods.
@@naterivers6107 This is true. 👌
With regards to Obi Wan's comment on the blaster being uncivilised, I always thought it referred to how the use of the lightsabre requires a high level of skill to use effectively, whilst using a blaster could be done even by people who have little to no training and still give them enough power to kill a person or fight in a war. Kinda like a martial artist getting into a fight with a thug with a knife and looking down on them for picking the easier to use weapon even though it is potentially more damaging to use.
It has to do more with precision and cleanliness. A blaster, like any gun, is messy and chaotic when used.
The original Star Wars novelization from '77 has almost an entire page dedicated to explaining Ben Kenobi's distaste for blasters 😆
I really like EFAP and I hate when they miss obvious stuff. Palpatine planning to get himself kidnapped by presenting himself as a useful and easy target and creating opportunities that would be hard to pass up, and Palpatine conspiring with his captor to make it look like he's been kidnapped is not the same thing. Two different questions, two different plans. You may think the answer is obvious, and that's fine, but there's no need to misrepresent the questions to make that point.
How they’re different?
@@ramathememe5674 in one of them the captor doesn't realise he's being manipulated, in the other one the captor is in on the plan
Yeah but what if the ship blew up, what if grievous was like lmao and tried to kill palpatine, either resulting in his death or palpatine being forced to reveal himself. What if anakin and obi wan failed. It still seems like a silly plan that put his person and his secret identity at risk.
There's a lot of variables with Palpatine's plan, even with Dooku in on the plan. It's extremely risky and could have gone horribly wrong.
@@starbolt0636 not really tho, I don't think Palpatine has that much stocks on anakin, the most risk he's taking is his ship being blown up by accident but that's highly unlikely
4:46:30 Windu: _"I think it's time to inform the Senate that our ability to use the Force is diminished."_
I'd say their ability to use the Force is non-existent. At the beginning of "Attack of the Clones" Mace, Yoda and at least two other Jedi Masters are literally sitting in the SAME ROOM with Palpatine and they can't detect that he's a Sith Lord.
There is a force tehnique to hide your footprint in the Force.
@@xentiment6581 did ypu read that in a comic or was it shown or established in the prequels?
@@blackwolf4653 how thr fuck fo you establish passive ability like that without being obvious as hell? There is zero reason for him to discuss it with anyone, you can force it into a conversation with Dooku but it would be awkard as fuck.
@@xentiment6581 Sounds like an excuse.
@@blackwolf4653 sounds like reality whether you like it or not
My mind and balls just exploded. Thank you for the Christmas gift fellas.
Oh no, hope your genitals will be okay
It's the best Christmas gift ever. They proved to all the fanboy idiot cunts out there that ROTS is shit and one of the worst movies of all time.
3:55:50 So there's a thing I tend to relate this to in the Crusader Kings series, another Paradox game similar to Stellaris.
Capturing the enemy leader is one of riskiest options to strive for in a war, but it's also the quickest way to achieve a decisive victory since they are the representative figurehead for their faction, and you have them imprisoned.
When they're alive, they still hold office as the enemy nation's leader. However if they manage to escape from arrest, or they die/you have them executed and succession is enacted, and the enemy regains a leader, so the war continues.
*Sets up an abduction scheme on a foreign ruler, then declares war a week before the scheme plays out.*
It's funny how y'all thought people wouldnt just clap and hand over massive overreaching powers in return for "saftey and security", even after people did exactly that with lockdowns.
I know that we aren't allowed to use books here and expanded universe stuff and such, and I totally get it. But I would just like to say that the revenge of the sith novelization actually does a really good job of addressing most of the complaints that people in general have with the plot of this movie and if the film had been half as good as the book it would have been a lot better than it is. I read the book before I saw the movie, and when I did see the movie I was very disappointed.
And that's why books aren't generally allowed.
Because your argument for the novelization of RotS can also be used far TLJ.
>youtube removes dislike bar
>EFAP immediately does controversial Plinkett episode
Coincidence? I think not
Rags saying that Obi-Wan and Anakin not having a relationship in the Phantom Menace is grating. Their relationship is established, it's just that Obi-Wan does not like Anakin. He doesn't approve that Qui-Gon brought him aboard the ship with the Naboo, and after the rulings from the Council he expresses the same fear about how dangerous Anakin is to Qui-Gon before they leave Coruscant, so he avoids him. It's not a brotherly relationship where he and Anakin are gonna take on the universe together, and he only takes Anakin on as his apprentice to honor his dying master's last wish. That foundation for their relationship is really important to Anakin's fall. Just because they don't share a ton of screen time or have any real back and forth dialogue one on one doesn't mean that their relationship is nonexistent, and the prequel story would be less consistent altogether if they were a strictly brotherly duo from their first meeting.
Ok, I'm adding this edit because MauLer immediately brought it up, but yes, in Attack of the Clones they aren't particularly amicable with each other, and that's my entire point. We see them start off with Obi-Wan dismissing Anakin outright in TPM, then in AotC he's a sort of overbearing mentor, frustrated and concerned with Anakin for his ego and his recklessness, but trying to do right by him as his teacher and master. RotS rounds that out with this introduction where they have become incredibly close through their years of service and companionship, and we can see how deeply Obi-Wan cares for Anakin. They kind of dismiss this idea because we haven't actively seen it in the films, but I don't think we need to. We can see how their relationship is developing in the films, and we can understand and infer from the context of the universe that this war has probably put them through a lot together, and even though it's sparse, we can draw a through-line of their relationship from Episode 1 to Episode 3.
yep that is both the issue with the prequels and the issue with a lot of the critics. A lot of the trilogy is based on inference and tbh its what gives it a lot of its charm. You're supposed to be able to infer relationships, characters, their motivations, ect through things like the shot composition, characters roles, references to older media like adventure films or medieval love stories, etc. To me its why listening to the majority of critics can be frustrating, because a lot of them completely overlook these things. Not saying it makes the trilogy good, bad, or anything other then its a huge part of the critique that is generally missing.
I'd rather actually see their relationship develop than just be told "oh now they have a good, close relationship." Otherwise it comes across as lazy.
@@danij5055 It does though. You can see it developing throughout episode 2.
@@icythefiremage1685 Where in Episode 2? There is the scene between him and Padme when she is packing for Naboo. Anakin expresses a great amount of frustration toward Obi-Wan. I never felt any real friendly relationship between the two of them other than "this story" or "that story" like we see in the elevator ride. The "nest of gundarks" story.
Also, I think it was Episode 2 - right after they meet Padme again - that Obi-Wan says to Anakin, "And you will listen to me." And Anakin says, "Why?" Yup, a real friendship seen and felt right there... So respectful...
@@danij5055 episode 2 is when they aren't quite friendly yet, but they're learning. Anakin is frustrated by Obi-Wans teaching and feels like he's being held back by the Jedi intentionally, Obi-Wan is annoyed by Anakin's ego and exceptional power, which cause him to overlook and ignore the basics of his training. We can tell they have a respect for each other from the scene in the elevator and when they first meet all the politicians, and we get to really understand their dynamic during the chase scene with Zam. Just because they're telling a story to each other about some event the audience is missing context for doesn't mean we can't pull a lot of meaning out of the conversation.
Tell me if I'm off base here, but when Anakin and Padme get escorted into the arena, we see a range of emotions on Ewan McGregors face (kudos), and he opens by saying "I was beginning to wonder if you got my message". He's irritated because he knows Anakin is not dumb enough to charge head first into a hive of enemy combatants to stage a solo rescue mission, putting himself and his charge in mortal danger, yet here he is. Anakin plays it down, acting like nothing out of the ordinary happened. "We got your message, and we patched it through to the council just like you asked", as he's getting chained to an execution post. "Then we came to rescue you". Anakin knows he's done everything up until this point absolutely wrong, but he's trying to mitigate the situation without taking responsibility for it, really. Followed by an exasperated "Good job" from Obi-Wan, because he's been through this enough with Anakin to understand that this is how he is. Just that conversation between these two characters shows us exactly who they are to each other, and they have a couple really good ones in Episode 2 and 3 that are the same way..
With regards to Kaminoans being evil. They were the ones who made and trained the clones. They made them so that they would kill all the Jedi regardless of any camaraderie between them at the drop of a single command. No exceptions. I would also like to point out that they made an army of "disposable" living breathing people and indoctrinated them into being tools of war. This is the stuff from just the movies. In what world would they not be evil? At best they are amoral.
Star Wars doesn't do ethics nor does it explore such complicated concepts. Just take droids as an example: some of them seem to have a full fledged AI, a distinct personality, yet they are treated with same respect as a toaster.
In regards to clones specifically, yeah, that's basically a crime against humanity.
@@Divine_Allure it could explore such things but doesn’t dared do it in a film
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer a sophisticated enough artificial intelligence, one that could learn on its own and develop what we would perceive as a genuine personality, would be indistinguishable from a sentient being with regards to their behaviour.
If I'm not mistaken, in Star Wars canon, droids have to routinely undergo a memory wipe process, lest their intelligence and personality flourish and become unshackled. That is not just a toaster - it's nothing short of facsimile of life.
This'll be a day "long" remembered. It has seen the end of Just Right. It will soon see the end of the Massives.
What happened to Just Write?
Not knowing which way is up, is like saying someone died because they forgot how to breath.
yeah, like see that? the ground? yeah, go the opposite way.
The "so uncivilised" line after shooting Grievous is a reference to Obi wan saying : "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.” in Episode 4 while talking about lightsaber to Luke.
Mauler : "I don't even think those table are real"
Me : those tables weren't real, it's a big issue with how they made those movies, needing the actors to imagine everything, lack of directing and everything being CGI didn't help the movie.
The Death Star was named Project Stardust during construction.
Fear of Jar Jar getting ruined is kinda funny.. but he's likely in Kenobi according to some rumours.
You may want to know that the PT has a lot of real thing and the line you are referencing is about having to act with nothing, it doesn't mean that everything is CGI. Heck, the PT has more real stuff than the OT. The actor said that there is difficulty in acting when things are not there. Not that things are not there all the time.
Lack of directing is also a myth. Lucas directed them is a very specific way to obtain very specific actions from the actors. Take Anakin.... he is purposely stilted and with explosive emotions. You have the actor convey a lot of emotion with the eyes and posture (Hayden is very impressive with his gazes), when the words coming out are forced to point to his upbringing and lack of skill in that area. Padme has very robotic mannerisms as the Queen, but when interacting as the Handmaiden she is free to emote much more. See her acting around child Anakin or even Jar Jar.
Doesn't Chewbacca previously knowing Yoda through the prequels make it hard to believe Han Solo doesn't believe in the Force, when his best friend fought alongside a Jedi?
I suppose its not impossible that Chewbacca kept that information hidden from Han, although that feels out of character given their close friendship.
kinda, but that’s not exactly what han believed. as far as i remember he didn’t say that he doubted the existed of the jedi order, but rather the existence of the force as some all-encompassing power that guides everyones destinies
Han's problem was someone else guiding his destiny, not the existence of the Force.
Chewie probably doesn't talk about. Traumatic war stuff and all that.
probably george lucas didnt even thought about that, he just wanted to randomly put chewbacca in the movie and that's it, he didnt care when he made those movies
Just the opening few minutes of Revenge of the Sith is like a breath of fresh air. The fleet positions may not make sense, but the camera work is dynamic, and there's a lot of three-dimensionality. So much better than the slow, flat, unimaginative space combat in the sequels.
It strikes me that the RotS opening battle is 1-to-1 a Star Fox level transliterated to film. The fleet actions are senseless because they're all just a pretty backdrop for the pov ships to fly in front of. Just like how the fleets in Star Fox levels are laid out for the player's benefit, rather than being armies who are trying to win.
How do the fleet positions not make any sense?
@@skywalkerorder2170 The ships of both sides are all haphazardly mixed together with no organization, and are clumped together so tightly that they could collide if they turn too quickly. The two fleets are about as ordered as a bowl of trail mix, and getting both of their formations so hopelessly entangled with each other would take some doing on both of their parts.
@@btn6 I always thought it was to show how sudden the attack was. The republic didn't really have a chance to properly organize everything
@@cordyceps182 if the CIS had the absolute advantage of catching them that flat footed, they would have swept them up and seized control of orbit, rather than crashing their fleet into the Republic fleet and forsaking all control of the battle.
@@btn6 Remember that they kidnapped the Chancellor and took him to the flag ship. They had to drive their fleet directly into the CIS fleet to isolate the flag ship and rescue him. It makes perfect sense.
Oh god....this is either going to be ultimate tism or bring in alot of arguement on consistency. I cant wait, and i may need to rewatch the plinkett movie review movies to firmly grasp it.
“Tism” is cringe
@@spendsshanks6050 No,that's TASM you're thinking of.
FIRMLY GRASP IT!
It’s a bit tismy
Firmly grasp it :]
Anakin before killing separatist: "Oh boy. Here I go killing again"
i just want to remind everyone that in the OG Battlefront 2, the clones always knew they would eventually have to betray the jedi. and it did a much better job of showing how those clones felt about it, and their own, personal reservations. aaaaaaand now they were just mind controlled and it's super lame.
BuT tHe ClOne WaRs FiXeS tHe PrEqUeLs
It's been a long time since I played that game. I know they were interested in the fact that the Jedi could be fooled, but I don't remember them saying they'd have to betray the Jedi one day.
It seems more believable to me then suddenly killing your superior because your told to
Assuming they never had free will to begin with and we’re mind controlled even by the Jedi but the tv show debunks that
As far as i know the clones were imprinted with -X amount of similar commands, Order 65 Was the opposite, Arrest the Chancellor,
A "normal" army would have reservations about it, but the Clones close orders with perfect discipline.
And i don't know if thats the case anymore, but the "Orders" were known among the Republic brass and Jedi, the Jedi were just unaware of Palpatine "Master Access", they thought that the order should be voted in the senate, which would be a massive shitshow to even hold to voting, and not a swift coordinated strike, catching the Jedi off-guard.
5:16:13 There is at least an explanation for Jedi using lightsabers over blasters. Supposedly the earliest Jedi were taught to use swords because being close to whoever they kill will make sure they can fully see the suffering they cause. In turn this should make the Jedi restrained in killing people since they are meant to highly value all life and to be "peacekeepers, not soldiers". This could explain Obi-Wan seeing ranged weapons as morally inferior and thus "uncivilised". But of course none of this is in the movies.
I really like that notion, but there’s also the idea that a blaster/gun, while powerful, can make one sloppy, give them an over-inflated sense of power. A sword can do this too, arguably, but one of the most devastating things the gun did was allow the common folk the ability to do what soldiers and infantry _used_ to have to train extensively for. So really, there’s no comparison as to one being “civilized” and the other not.
And then sith use the sword because they can then see the sufferring and get enjoyment from it
@@xolotltolox7626 Sith are know to be sickos. Too much leather and suffering.
@@AdorniIf you put both a "common folk" and a trained soldier into combat, there would be a difference.
No matter if it's guns or swords.
Guns didn't do anything "devastating" except provide liberty from tyrannical leaders and their armies.
They use lightsabers cuz there space knights that's all
I think the "uncivilized" line refers to the method of combat rather than the weapon. A gentleman's duel vs. armies slaughtering each other. OT Obi calls the lightsaber "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age." I think the idea being presented is that there is a certain gracefulness involved with sword fighting that isn't necessarily present with just blasting things with a gun.
3:50:19
The Emperor was testing both Dooku and Anakin. Same way he tested Luke in episode 6. Have the strength to overcome and join him, or you weren't worth it to begin with.
Something that really baffles me is why didn't anyone get suspicious that Anakin was able to discover Palpatine is a Sith Lord so easily without being harmed at all when he was on the opposing side of the Sith, that being the Jedi Order at the time of doing so? Seriously, the Jedi aren't any more mentally advanced than just regular people in these movies.
*"Master Windu, I have just learned the Chancellor is Darth Sidious who orchestrated The Clone Wars and caused the deaths of millions of people in the act of carefully and strategically fighting back at us for the Sith's devastating blow a thousand years ago."*
*"How do you know this?"*
*"He said to my face he was trained in the Dark Side of the Force by a Sith Lord."*
*"We won't confront him now in private. That's what he wants. Let's wait for a better time."*
"We must act quickly if the order is to survive"
Windu is right in acting fast regardless if he has or not knowledge about order 66, Palpatine told Anakin, wasn't entirely convinced, informing the council was very likely, Palpatine would be ready for either Anakin or the Jedi to appear, to Join/Kill (Anakin) Arrest (Jedi)
If Windu or Yoda had discovered Palpatine's identity they could plan and strike with the element of surprise, here they were caught with their pants down in the worst possible moment.
I’m only 30 minutes in so I’ll edit if I change my mind or have more comments but I do want to comment on your criticism of prequel structure. I don’t know how to do it better, but I think Phantom Menace adds some amazing stuff. The reason it’s called “Duel of the Fates” is because if Qui Gon survives, the trilogy does not happen. He’s a wiser, better fit, and more invested master than Obi Wan. Qui Gon could have been a symbol of the Jedi’s good side whereas Obi Wan is kind of a symbol of Jedi politics (specifically asking to spy on Palpatine and the fact that he was accepted to the council where Qui Gon was rejected). In addition it sets up the tension between the Jedi and Anakin as well as his relationship to his mother and how he met Padme. I think you can still make the trilogy function without it, but with some better execution, PM adds so much. I’ll admit, I’m biased as RoTS is my favorite movie in the saga with RoTJ in second. I know many arguments yet still love them despite their flaws. Still listening, probably won’t finish until tomorrow, but I’ll edit this if I have any other responses or am pointed to cool arguments. Thanks for posting this, I love talking about the PT.
The look of concern when Obi Wan was crushed could’ve just been that feeling every guy gets when someone within a mile gets hit. Like a “oh gosh I felt that ngl.” Also the kill is very different. Other movies: heat of battle kill, this one: helpless man executed with a bit of breathing time to make a decision.
While I agree there should’ve been more development of the relationship, I think the banter when they land is similar to other references throughout the prequels of “there is more going on in the world than our characters” and I think Kashyyyk was just an extension of that idea. It shows us, these wars effect people and there’s more to this story than what we’re seeing. Lucas apparently had a four hour cut at one point. Again, fair criticism for the other films but I think it adds to the great world building
I agree with your criticisms of the Jedi, but that was kind of the point of the prequels. The Jedi have become a “just detach yourself lol” and less truly force based which is why Anakin goes to Palpatine because he validates his emotions while the Jedi did not. And that’s another reason Qui Gon would have been a better teacher for Anakin because he could fit his needs. Still mostly valid but I don’t think it’s a fully bad thing.
While the switch is quick, I do think there is an idea that “I have no one and nothing else to go to, if I don’t do what he wants I’m going to jail if I’m lucky.
The sequels do not deserve best original score, there’s two great videos by Sideways that break down how many problems there are with the scores.
Haven’t finished it but it doesn’t make me happy that the criticisms of the PT are “we need more” where are the ST is “we need something else” which shows that there is a lot of good stuff in the PT.
The cw critique of the fives arc my only defense is that it’s clear the doctor gave him an agent that breaks down his mind. Still a bit dumb but mostly functional.
They definitely should’ve had clones kill the younglings, I will definitely agree.
The easy solution is have Anakin be older in Phantom and the conflict that happens on Naboo to be a direct precursor to the CIS forming instead of some thing that happened a decade ago. Have the pre-Jedi older Anakin work with Obi-Wan before Gui-Gon dies.
Wonderful comment, but I disagree with your last sentence. Anakin has killed kids before. Its become something of a meme even from aotc. In rots, at that point he has helped defeat the second most important jedi in the council, there is no turning back. Why did he do that? To save Padme. To save Padme, Palpatine says he needs to kill everyone in order to get strong enough in the dark side. Its all there.
GOOOOODDD, GOOOOOD! THE FORCE WILL BE STRONG WITH THIS ONE!
Rags: "Tone is how a movie feels? That's so broad its useless. I would say tone is the atmosphere or vibe of a movie, as determined by its characters, stakes, and plot."
That definition is at least as useless as plinkett's, and needlessly wordy. I'd say for a quick explanation, Plinkett's definition was absolutely fine.
For the oder 66 Tism… Maybe we could have had a montage of Anakin hunting down the Jedi council members with help with the clones, while Creamy Sheev orders another set of clones to kill the kids? It’s not great by any means but god damn it’s better than Anakin slicing and dicing through younglings. I agree it doesn’t fit his character
Or even have Palpatine blind side him with the temple slaughter...I think a dynamic where Anakin is actually only reluctantly working with Palpatine out of desperation for Padme and is actually furious at Palpatine for what he's doing but doesn't really have a choice anymore after he killed Windu. Palpatine could even use this anger to help push him fully to the dark side, similar to how he would later try to use Luke's hatred of him to do the same
I honestly would have preferred if Anakin simply turned his back on the younglings as clones marched into the room. You could have Anakin walking away getting emotional as you see blaster flashes behind him which would have probably served better for his character as it shows he is not so far gone but that's just my 2 cents.
Anakin is so scared of losing padme that he's willing to let the galaxy burn if it means her life. We see through Hayden's acting that he's hesitating, weighing the life of Padme over the lives of the kids and he chooses padme. Then there's the corrupting nature of the dark side.
It makes perfect sense lore and character wise for Anakin to kill the younglings.
Just rewatched Attack of the Clones... that movie could have done with a couple of well placed montages over George Lucas' cringey lines. Actually, most of Anakin's prequel scenes could have been done in montage.
Man. Hearing what they think of the “Force as an Agent” concept is interesting. Because as an extended universe kid I was already very aware of this.
In fact my favorite villain in Star Wars, Darth Traea is entirely based around this concept.
The whole backdrop for the Bad Batch season one is the Empire weighing out the clones and subscripting normal people. Because the Kaminoan charge too much, and the Empire is looking for loyal servants that have chosen to serve. Really good show.
I think it would be a lot better without Omega.
Regarding the language discussion at around 7:30:00 :
The Germanic language from which English and German developed had a case system. It is still there in German (or at least a very strict case system that developed from the original), so that in German word order does not strictly matter very much beyond conventions.
E.g. "Peter füttert den Hund." and "Den Hund füttert Peter." Both mean "Peter feeds the dog". The word "den" makes clear that the dog is the one being fed. The word order in this example would mainly be used for emphasis, i.e. "Den Hund füttert Peter." would be used if there are multiple people who could feed the dog and the speaker wanted to emphasize that it was Peter who does it.
There are some very faint remnants of the case structure in English. Examples that come to mind are the distinction between "who" and "whom", and the correct usage of "i" or "me" in phrases like "He is taller than I." or "Between you and me."
And to my knowledge, most romance language still have cases at least for the pronouns.
Fun fact Dexter actually joins a band of freedom fighters in a piece of side extended media call Last of the Jedi. (They’re just a short run of we’ll put together books).
Anyways Dexter leads a group call the Erased. People who gave up all their ties and connections to become virtually untraceable so they can better help the rebellion navigate undetected.
Just a small bit of info I thought would be cool to shoot you guys.
Wolf actually mentioned that on an early Efap too
I’ve waited a long time for this moment
If they really wanted to push the "Palpatine hinting that Obe's is with Padme" stuff, they could have had Anakin doubt the baby's paternity. Maybe he does some sort of space DNA test and it proves he's the father, but shows high midiclorines. And he fears his child/children being given to the Jedi and he'll never get to play happy family and the stressers just build and build until his sanity snaps.
I’d like to see a little bit of the “love triangle” plot line, but I wouldn’t want it to dominate any of the movies. I’d want more than Anakin’s accusation in the film, that’s for sure. I figure the cheating plot line could be focused on Anakin, with some implications that Palpatine was interfering with his dreams or mental state for increased paranoia.
Now the Padme-Anakin conversation about the fate of their child, *that* sounds terrific. Their separate speculations about what what might happen if their child is strong in the force, about Anakin choosing between the responsibilities of a Master and being involved in his child’s life… You could even have a conversation about who would raise the child if both Anakin and Padme died.
On the topic of preferring that the prequels exist, I think one of the major things that helps the prequels is that while they themselves were lackluster they at least gave us something to work with for other better stories to be written with their interesting cast and setting. Books like Yoda Dark Rendezvous which explores the relationship between Yoda and Dooku and Dooku's philosophies can be written thanks to the small hints of a prior relationship the two had as master and student. Exploring the clones as actual people and their relationship with the Jedi they served under in The Clone Wars, the Republic Commando series and so on is possible thanks to these movies. (Whether the examples I gave are good themselves... well, that's up for discussion.) With the sequels, we got nothing like that. There's no opprotunities for actually engaing and thoughtful stories, not really anyway. I mean, who wants to see anything more of Rey? Of Fin and Po? Of Rose? Who really cares what happens after the first Order's defeat? Are there any interesting side characters that have hints of deep and compelling stories to them?
I make the same argument for the prequels. We all may think they were lackluster but we all consider them lore. We all have moments we remember and love. I can't think of a single moment in the sequels I remember fondly. I don't even consider it lore ( mandalorian sure). The prequels also stay true to the story. Sequels just make things up. The prequels may be different than the og trilogy but they expand the story. I personally love them just wish Vader's fall to the dark side made more sense
Shhhhh, Rags will have a mental breakdown if you mention anything outside of the things he considers important canon.
my amendment to the killing younglings scene would be this: when palpatine orders anakin to ransac the temple anakin could say “but-“ and palpatine would cut him off with “ *all* of them” then the story progresses without a younglings scene but heavily implies that it happens. This avoids the shock value scene that many felt was trying too hard or was otherwise in poor taste and allows realization to hit us with the rest of the characters
Honestly, the main problem with the Younglings scene is that characters keep referring to them as "Younglings". It's a cringe-inducing term that doesn't fit the esthetic. Whereas "Padawan" is sort of weird-sounding, but fits the alien galaxy setting.
I really hate that scene since that retroactively makes Vader irredeemable in my mind.
Is that really a shock value scene.... really they could've showed him massacre them with a smile on his face and blood everywhere..
Really they kept it tame..while being clear what happened.
@@berserkasaurusrex4233 younglings makes sense.. because different species would have a different name for their children....like how we have pup,chick,cub,kitten etc ...but youngling is an all encompassing term
@@86lanzo Again, "Younglings" doesn't fit the esthetic. Padawan is an all encompassing term, as is Jedi for that matter (basically any species can be a Jedi Knight or a Padawan). "Younglings" is both lazy writing and way too unsubtle. Lucas might as well have just called them "baby Jedi" and been done with it.
Even just calling them "Pages" would've worked better, and certainly fits with the Jedi Knight theme.
I'm glad that even though there are some bad takes and poorly articulated criticism in the Plinkett reviews, that there is also some good, valid argumentation in it too. It shows that there really was something there to use as a jumping off point into long-form analysis, but that we've also generally gotten better at it, and we can double-back and say "hey, not all of this holds up, actually."
Obvious distinction there from Nostalgia Man
Name one bit of criticism from those BS Plinkett reviews that qualifies as valid argumentation.
@@MrZackavelli How about that time he pointed out how boring and static dialogue scenes tend to be, and that regardless of the actual contents of the dialogue scene, nothing really happens, and no one is given anything to do. George couldn't come up with a single interesting thing to give any of them to do, nor any interesting way to convey needed information, during scenes of exposition.
@@MrGeorgeFlorcus I feel like that can be seen, by some, as a perception thing.
@@MrGeorgeFlorcus I don't see that as valid. He praised the pointless running around in JJ's Star Trek movie, the end product of such lines of thinking resulted in Rise of Skywalker where the camera can't stay still. It's been referred to Gish Gallop
ing The Movie. There's no film law that says A Cam B Cam shots are bad, the best you can suggest is that more dynamic blocking could have helped the movie.
7:53:00 IIRC early CGI was much more limited in how it was used, and "mixed reality" shots tended to be single room shots / small area shots with fixed camera angles, and the prequels actually broke some new ground by having more complex green screen sets than movies generally used. I imagine it was actually quite expensive, which might also affect why there is such a number of those basic shots. This probably also affected "Plinkett's" opinion on CGI.
Very true, but on reflection, Plinketts complaint was mostly about the sameness of the shots the reliance on this technology created and the general lack of foreground elements, which should’ve been simple enough to add in.
RotS suffers heavily from the low budget adage “write for where you can shoot” because in spite of the amount of forest, desert and grassland the Lucasfilm estates controlled, not to mention industrial looking premises available for redress, much of the film consists of walking short distances then stopping, often at a couch, to talk.
The foreground thing is most evident in the bit where ObiWan is about to board the cruiser and is talking to the rickety Anakin. The sequence is begging for a few clones and an officer to cross the frame in front of them, perhaps with a Micheal Bay rotation to show off the scale of a small mission.
Tone is how a movie feels. Like is your movie a lighthearted comedy? A suspense thriller? That kind of stuff. That's not really subjective. No one who sees Bambi think they're seeing a taught thriller or a dark drama.
Yeah I feel they were being way too anal about a lot of this stuff. Tone being the way a piece of media feels is a great descriptor. And even if it is subjective, the tone of a movie might feel a little different from one person to another.
This is nonsense because A) that’s not tone, and B) Bambi assuredly has scenes that play exactly like a thriller (birds hiding until one can’t stand it and flies only to be instantly killed; the rabid dogs after Faline; and then when The Fire comes to the forest) and a dark drama (do I even need to say it? in the harsh dead of winter, his father emerges from the darkness: “Your mother can’t be with you anymore.” And again when he arrives after Bambi’s been shot to tell him, “Get up. You _must_ get up.” Bambi’s fight with Ronno is clearly dramatic and dark) The tone changes pretty drastically through the movie, like many great films. You evidently don’t think it qualifies as having either of these tones (even tho those are genres?) because what, it’s animated with a deer? I agree it’s not in the thriller genre, but again, that’s not what tone means at all. And it is a drama in many ways, I don’t know how you can argue that.
This was fun. Merry Crombus everyone!
EFAP crew: "so uncivilized" doesn't have a deep meaning, it's just a callback to ANH when obi wan is telling Luke what a lightsaber is "not as clumsy or as random as a blaster-- a more elegant weapon, for a more civilized age". Thats it. Just a rememberberry
@@pyerack And its even funnier if you watch it closesy, obi wan shoots him while hanging off the ledge. When he pulls himself up he sets the gun down on the ground and as he's standing up he picks it up again, only to throw it down in disgust. Pretty funny
Biggest sin of this and the clone wars is making general grievous a lame miniboss
I always imagined that when two force users fought they were basically expending most of their force powers just sort of fighting each other. Like they both had to divert most of their force energy and ability to fend off each others force, cancelling it out. Grievous v. Obi-wan would have been a great opportunity to explore that and explain why in 4 5 and 6 there are no lightsaber droids. I mean imagine if a jedi when dueling a non-force user with a lightsaber can just like force pull all the blood out of your heart so you instantly die. But instead we get weird choreography.
That is how it works in the novelizations of the movies and I think in a lot of the Legends stuff. Luke and Vader don't use force pushes because they're using the force in mental attacks against each other, and Vader is winning and extracting information about Leia and so forth
And it's pretty established that they use the force to guide and strengthen their movements, so it might be too much for most of them to add to it.
5:13:58 I always saw the "So uncivilized" line to be a bit of a call back (sort of) to A New Hope. There's a scene on the Falcon where Obi Wan and Han Solo are having a back and forth about blasters vs lightsabers in which Obi Wan says something like "The lightsaber is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age". Demonstrating he thinks lightsabers are the better weapon. Which adds a little irony to the "So uncivilized" line given he uses a blaster to defeat an opponent using a lightsaber.
4:09:00 - The area does seem to be a landing strip on account of the tower that they crash into, which seems to be an air traffic control tower. (The architecture is reminiscent of a modern airport's control tower). Also, since basically every square meter of Coruscant is covered in buildings that do not have long, flat roofs, it's difficult to imagine what else it could be if not a landing strip. Of course, it may not be, but it does seem to be.
I'd compare it to runaway truck lanes. In the event of a spaceship entering the atmosphere of a city planet in an uncontrolled way, it would need an area to crash in an area that wouldn't topple a skyscraper. I dont think thats much of a leap.
i think they loaded their troops and tanks on the "stardestroyers" on those landing strips in some scene in one of the movies.
@@phyton9O
True; end of Attack of the Clones.
@Not The Target Demographic
Agreed, I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to have, especially given the high volume of air traffic. Accidents happen, so best to have contingencies. Much like the runaway truck ramps found on mountain roads.
Not to mention that some people might still enjoy flying winged crafts, much as how people today still ride horses for leisure.
It's possible that place is for the Venerators. We see the clones embarking at the end of the second movie.
This is a criticism I hear a lot about the prequels, that Anakin saying he believes the Jedi are evil by the end of these movies is ridiculous or somehow doesn't make sense. Maybe this is just a perspective issue, where people have gone into these films assuming the Jedi are what they claim to be. Guardians of peace and justice, defenders of democracy, and the de facto good guys of the story. I don't think they're ever presented that way though. They're hypocrites, grilling and dismissing a young child for being too fearful, while telling Qui-Gon that he's too dangerous to be trained, they're bureaucratic and ineffective, they have a myriad of problems that immediately cast doubt on their benevolence and competence in this story. It all culminates in this movie with two incredibly important conversations for Anakin. The first is when he executes Dooku at Palpatine's request. "He's too dangerous to be left alive", a callous justification to destroy an opposition leader in the moment, but in a wider context it's a look into the ideology of the Sith. The next is the conversation when Windu is about to execute Palpatine. He says in response to Anakin saying that Palpatine must stand trial that Palpatine controls the courts and the Senate, which is a tacit admission that the system itself is broken. It's not a far leap of logic to believe the Jedi upheld a broken Republic because it guaranteed their position as the galactic guardians. And then Mace Windu says "He's too dangerous to be left alive", mirroring Palpatine earlier in the film. From Anakin's perspective, you have a group of incredibly powerful moral guides for the galaxy who are supposed to uphold these ideals and principles, that are supposed to be the arbiters of what it is to be good. But when their power is threatened, even though Palpatine is essentially beaten and captured, the Jedi are willing to do something Anakin knows is wrong in order to maintain their control. It's exactly the same thing that the Chancellor is doing, except at least the Chancellor is willing to help Anakin and doesn't tell him to just get over his wife dying lmao. The Jedi shunned him, disrespected him, blatantly used him for their own political schemes, and refused to acknowledge or even trust him for his entire life. This whole thing feels odd to me because you have EFAP complaining about the overtness of the line "From my point of view the Jedi are evil", which I agree, is unnecessary and too on the nose. But then immediately following that they're confused that Anakin believes that at all. There is a strong case to be made that the Jedi are evil in these movies, and if not evil then at the very least morally dubious.
I'v never thought about it from this perspective, but I agree now. Maybe what they're having trouble getting over is that saying "evil" is very overt and direct. Anakin doesn't say corrupt, misguided, ineffective, wrong, or anything like that. So just taking these three movies for what they are ohe surface level, evil is a bit of a leap, but lik I said having thought about your reasoning I agree
@@lordofdoosh Glad I could give you a new perspective
Those are all reasonable observations about the jedi, unfortunately this moral relativism is eclipsed by how unreasonable evil the sith get. By the time the youngling thing happen the narrative basic confirm that, despite whatever flaws the jedi may have, they are the good guys in this conflict.
Honestly I think there was a huge waste of potential for not showing any reasonable sith perspectives. There were some hint's that Dooku had moral motivations and a sense of honor, but those were never elaborated.
I would've loved if at some point the separatists were revealed to be the most moral side of the war. The conflict between sith and jedi could have turned out somewhat grey, exception for Palpatine.
@@DanielChico09 I don't know, I think they did a halfway decent job of using Palpatine to expose the flaws with assuming the Sith are evil. Palpatine was the most popular and beloved ruler the Republic had ever scene and he was a Sith. The slaughter of children is the only real evil the Sith are guilty of in this trilogy, and there's about 200 hours worth or arguments to unpack regarding that, but overall Palpatine was never really evil.
He wants power, he wants to destroy the Jedi, and he wants the death of bureaucracy. He organizes and wages a war against himself to do it. He isn't a morally good character, but I come away from the prequels thinking that he probably does believe that what he's doing is the best course of action for the galaxy. It's why I think the story is so compelling, because neither side is perfect, but there are legitimate merits to both (ignoring the children killing for now). Blanketing that relativistically the Jedi are good and Sith are bad removes that element of the story, and it definitely isn't true for Anakin, who experiences this conflict centrally.
@@icythefiremage1685 Orchestrating a war to get more political power and killing all of his accomplices are all very evil actions.
I like that Palpatine is so evil and intelligent, I just would prefer for his villainy to be about who he is rather than it be a sith thing.
Still love the movie. Order 66 never fails to get me emotional. But then I remember monster mash and all the problems come flooding back.
True, of the prequel trilogy Revenge of the Sith is probably the best but still has flaws; nowhere near Phantom Menace mind you, but it's still a flawed gem.
And the graveyard bash
@@makkrowmazztikk7003 *graveyard smash
It's never succeeded in getting me emotional. The movies never made any attempt to get me invested in these random Jedi Masters. I don't even remember their names, other than Aayla Secura and that's only thanks to Wookieepedia.
@@Zakuuboi better than anything Disney shat out in the sequels. I’d rather watch the Prequels for a week straight over watching the sequels a second time.
Padmae dying earlier in revenge of the Sith could have at least made Anikins fall to the dark side more believable and could have been worked into the Jedi being responsible for it even just in appearance.
Yeah wouldn't that be interesting if Obi Wan confronted Anakin on Mustafar and lied about Luke and Leia being dead? That would be a great excuse as to why Anakin never looked for them.
I mean it always worked. It was very well set up in the other movies
@@randalthekidd7006 what are you taking about
@@randalthekidd7006 what are you taking about
@@gottesurteil3201 would it also give more reason as to why Vader never recognised lea as his daughter or why he never looked for them
2:47:55 rlm begins
This needs to be pinned
I think they dropped the ball with thinking Plinkett's gripe about Force lightning being reused was unfounded. Rags words it as "Force lightning was never specific to the Emperor"... but why would you think it wasn't, or was? Plinkett just meant that the lightning was used for that specific scenario, not because it's a universal Sith power or that it's even practical, but because the Emperor wanted to draw out Luke's death. But then it was just made into something Dooku pulls out every once in a while... it's not a sin or anything, I just don't know why it's ever a go-to attack, when the Jedi Dooku is fighting are armed with lightsabers that can block it, and any Sith who's practiced with it must be aware that it can rebound into their own face. Simply put, the lightning is no longer saying anything about the character or being used for narrative significance; it's been made into a "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS" moment, is all.
Meanwhile, when MauLer's making a comparison with lightsabers themselves, and going "well doesn't it make Luke and Vader's swords less meaningful, when every Jedi has one in the prequels?"... I would have to say no, because the first thing we ever learn about a lightsaber is that it is the weapon of all Jedi. It's established from the get-go.
Couldnt have said it better and i always felt the same way. Now it feels like palps used lightning on luke in rotj because it is THE sith force attack
I disagree it doesn’t ruin anything
@@Galvatronover okay so, I gave reasons for why I think what I think... that'd be cool from you, if you want to add to the conversation.
I think you guys are misinterpreting the scene between Yoda and Anakin. Anakin does NOT tell him about Padme, he is very vague (the transition into this scene shows his vision of Padme dying).
So he basically says "I'm having issues" and Yoda says "generic Jedi Code advice"
1:41:43 Could you imagine if the Resistance just dropped a reprogrammed version of Grevious to take on the re-animated Sheev in Rise of Skywalker... crossing FOUR lightsabers would have finished him off twice as fast!
As to why EFAP is confused as to why the opening scene of RotS starts off with a giant battle, the lead-up to this scene is in Clone Wars (2003) where Grievous blitzes the planet and seizes the Chancellor. Mace Windu crushes his chest cavity, which is why he's coughing in this movie and is pretty lame overall.
Now, you're saying--rightfully--that it wasn't in the movie. That's true, and a legit flaw in this movie, but that is what Lucas intended with this part of the Star Wars multimedia project. I do disagree that you can't tell who's who. Republic ships have that proto-Star Destroyer look to them by being triangle-shaped while the CIS ships are more rounded. Likewise, the Jedi Starfighter in this movie looks like an early TIE interceptor and the AC-170s* reference the X-wing (poorly IMO) wings while the droid fighters are either the vulture droids we saw in TPM or the very rounded Tri-fighters.
In general, the Prequels are a deeply flawed series of movies, but they were movies first and many of the political questions asked by detractors can be inferred by the existing scenes in this movie. The Senate is useless, Palpy has been playing both sides so that he can be the victor regardless of how the war went, the Jedi have been political bishops doing the bidding of the Old Republic. Unfortunately, EFAP rightly points out that the message Disney got from the Plinkett reviews was to ignore politics entirely and thus, nothing can be inferred from what's on the screen. At least, not in ways that the creators want you to infer. The Sequels show me that the New Republic is absolutely incompetent and no one cares what happens to it. Plinkett reviews did need to be reviewed because of how influential they are to the Sequels via Simon Pegg and JJ Abrams, whom did try to make their movies to these criticisms, which is why the Sequels are OT nostalgia bait that keeps the plot so mind-numbingly simple that the characters in it end up as one dimensional.
*I'd actually would prefer to see the Z-95 Headhunters as the X-wing resemblance is much stronger.
Revenge of the Sith is a soft reboot of Citizen Cane, I loved it and it was everything I hoped to be
Wowowo!!! Let’s not get crazy they attack fo the clones :)
2:37:15 A snippet of Fringy snipping his tonalds