You totally missed the point why DW is hated. The exact same reasons MVMT is hated, applies here. Dirt cheap watches bought from Aliexpress being sold for 20-30 times the price under the pretext of some silly origin story and disrupting the industry. Nothing to do with the designs of the watches.
@@melody3741they aren’t clones, they are made in the same factory as the Daniel wellington ones. DW went to the manufacturer asked them what watches they made chose a design and said “stick our logo on that” and then sell them at 5000% profit.
Daniel Wellington is geared towards a fashion watch. Richard Mille is a great watch, yet the premium pricetag is unjustifiable. It has become the luxury fashion watch.
@@warpnl1 It's all subjective and personal choice. I personally adore the IWC mark xi bronze case with the green dial. Many can't agree with the simplistic dial design. For me, it's perfect. I personally enjoy smaller, elegant and simplistic designs. The Mille is a great watch in its own right, yet I would never wear on on my wrist. I wouldn't. It's too bold. It does not suit my personality. I'm a simple, humble man. I enjoy simplicity, and the most challenging aspect of watchmaking, is to perfect the simplistic designs. That is more rewarding for a watchmaker, in my opinion. I am starting to build funds for Cartier Santos medium. The classic look is appealing to me. It's not tacky, as you say, unlike the Mille we both agree upon.
I live in Bulgaria - there is a chain of watch shops here called "Exess" they have home brand watches called "Rital" after the guys that own the company. I know them, they sell the exaxt same watches that Danial Wellington does. The Chinese companies have a range of watches and they will print your logo on them and engrave the back. Exess sell them for about £10 to £30
@@piccalillipit9211 That is interesting. It shows how marketing raises the value of a product. They are minimalist in design, but we know value. £10-30 is perfectly priced.
Why the f**** would you ever get a Richard Mille for multiple hundreds of thousands when you can get a Greubel Forsey and still have money left over for a Lange 1
Because people don't just buy watches for their horological value. Believe or not some people actually buy watches to show off their wealth. I can tell you right now when people see a Richard Mille they know you paid shit tons of money for it. When people see a Greubel Forever 99% of them would have no idea what it is.
Probably because the people buying them have enough money for all the watches you listed. The people buying RM’s aren’t spending their last paycheck to finally get one. They have the kind of “fuck you money” where a couple hundred grand is inconsequential to them. And to clarify, I absolutely despise the look of RM’s and would never in a million years ever buy one. But the people who _are_ buying them are just living in a completely different universe. They’re to the point where tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars starts to lose all meaning
DW plays a very important marketing role where the traditional brands have failed - the proof is in the numbers of people buying what is essentially an Ali-Express rebranding exercise.
If people treat brilliant devices as a status symbol or anything other than loving it for what it is I do not like those people. Being genuine is a prerequisite to being a good person.
I think that’s a bit presumptuous. You can like showing off while still being genuine. I really like my watches. I really love the craftsmanship and the stories behind them. I also love it when someone says “nice watch”. Any luxury watch is a status symbol.
@M. Milo Yup. Infact, Any luxury item or service is a status symbol. Expensive car. Expensive meal at a 5 star restaurant. Expensive shoes. Expensive Education. All these things are status symbols.
@@Mmmmilo well the important qualifier is “anything other” you can do both, that’s fine, but if its ONLY a status symbol, thats where i think you are a disingenuous.
So we can justify people who are getting "homage" watches, even though there's plenty of watches you can get in the same price point and not become laughing stock whenever you show up with your rolex Oyster Perpetual powered by genuine "swiss movement" ETA NH35A
The ‘my mom used to tape a bag a crisps to my wrist so I wouldn’t forget them so I know what am RM will feel like’ is probably the funniest comment I’ve heard on these podcasts.
Great video, and I really like the use of microphones as a visual effect. I do, however, wonder why you didn't pair richard mille and hublot together with mvmt and dw together as well like a double bill. Perhaps because of the different angles you two come at is the point of this series. I cannot reasonably say that the price of rm's or hublot models are worth that much, nor that rolex is even worth as much as it sells for realistically (unless you can get msrp at some future point), but it's always interesting to see different angles on attainable watches so please keep on the current trends of your reporting. I think the strength of your channel is that you can present a seiko or longines with the same gravitas and respect as a lange und soehne, great job.
When I owned my store in North Florida a gentleman whom I've sold many timepieces to asked me if I could replace the strap on his rm so I proceeded to contact rm for the tool to remove the screws they refused to sell me one the owner of the watch who paid nearly $200k Was quite upset as nearest ad was 300 miles away so I formed a negative opinion of the brand
Look up "We Knives". They are a high-end Chinese knife maker who used those EXACT same "star" screws on their knives for the first few years. They used to include the tool with each knife for disassembly. Enough people threw a fit and they changed to traditional torx screws. They probably still sell the tool (or you could find an old model on Ebay that includes the tool). Now you have a RM disassembly tool!
I would not take the chance of marring the heads of the screws on a $200k timepiece I've seen many ruined case back screws on countless watches that clients brought in for batteries by poor service people. Original tools are the key to quality plus rm has his screws made to his specs not a standard item not worth the risk but thanks for the advice.
@@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg6980 years ago a lady brought in a Patek quartz loaded with diamonds the screw slots were unrecognizable but still removable. My concern with rm is you wouldn't want to slip up and scratch the case or mar the heads it was 18k rose and this guy was a serious collector you should have seen his wall of watch winder with no space unfilled that was back 15 years ago
Well, I don't think I've ever read a bs story made up before by one of the brands that simply took over a quartz crisis victims name so this is a first for me. Brands like Festina, Lanco and the like usually just dodge the matter entirely in the hopes that no one asks any questions.
The word for the DW watch is "plain". I've always found it interesting that teenagers and young adults liked the look. To me it is no different from putting a plain wall clock on your wrist. And it is cheap, not worth the $270 odd price. The quartz moment inside is no different than a quartz fashion watch that costs $35. (Someone investigated,)
Because teenagers and young adults often don't have enough experience with watches and design to tell how uninspired this is. People grow out of it, but DW still sells enough before that point.
Both brands have ridiculous pricetags but at least RM has its own research team and has also recently made its own movements. Daniel Wellington is literally 100% marketing.
Hey, actually I got a DW 5 years ago because they settled a pop up store next to where I work, and found the minimalistic design appealing, (without knowing I could find basically the same watch watch on Ali for 10% of the price) Then I bought my first automatic watch, from an equally overpriced unknown french brand that put some miyota in their watches, And later I got deeper into the hobby and realized that even if I "lost" about 400€ buying those craps, I learnt so much things and discovered a new world. That was worth it to me. Nowadays I don't like to wear these anymore, but I kept them both, as a reminder (and it probably wouldn't be worth a penny if I'd try to sell them lol) So in some way, thanks DW.
The success of Richard Mille is the marketing genuis of its founder. The problem is the dude is 71 yo. So there's that. Besides, RMs designs are not timeless which means with changing fashion these watches will become extremely unwearable, especially by the elite, whose star power RMs are riding on, and who wanna remain in 'trend', and then these models will completely tank in value. And then there's this, whichever happens first.
For my taste the problem with most RM watches is not the price, nor the complications nor ..., but the one keyfactor i for myself hold as the holy grale of watches in general, and that is the ability to read the time when i look at it. And here, as far as I can say RM just looses my respect as a watchmaker. I have to admit that i never ever had a RM in my hand and probably never will, but if videos of any kind are somehow close to what you see there is close to what you would see in reality you just cant read the time in a blink of an eye, and that is enough for me to not like them as a watch, maybe as a statement what someone can do mechanically in a very confined space, but not as a watch.
Yes! I know people love these crazy skeleton looking watch and it does indeed looks cool and all but pretty much impossible to tell the time with it at a glance. The old "just look at your phone" argument is seriously flawed, yes I mostly bought expensive pieces to admire the dial and build quality but I can't tell the damn time with it then it hold no value to me as a watch which defeat the purpose of wearing a watch to begin with
Nailed it Georg. These machines are amazing pieces of engineering, but as someone who is badly colour blind seeing the actual time is a real challenge. And that is the main reason for wearing a watch.
It was really neat to hear you talking about the similarities between watches and cars. You should do a video going through significant cars and their matching watch. What watch would be a Ferrari 458? What would be a Ford F-150? What would be the VW Beetle of the watch world?
Ford F-150 would be a Seiko SKX, VW Beetle would be a Casio F91w, Ferrari would be a Richard Mille (im sure you could match specific model car to specific RM watches), Lamborghini would be Hublot, And Kia’s would be Daniel Wellingtons
@@ryanpeck3377 ferrari would not be Richard mille. makes a lot more sense to call it Patek. Lamborghini AP, and you could say Bugatti is lange & sohne.
Ello Guvna! You wanna cuppa Tea Mate?..Gonna Go down the Pub for a pint later then for some Pie & Mash or a Chippy..maybe a Kebab..Sharron's probably bringin the Birds down..Wanna Pull Mate? That'll be a Fiver Pleeeease! 😀😘
I just can't tell you how much I look forward to these video's. I don't always watch videos right away that I chose to ring the bell but I do these. After watching many many watch videos I am tired of the minutia of blued screws and hand rubbed edges. To comment on the watches, I will never be able to afford an RM and I would not want to buy a DW. I do love my Seiko SRPD 95.
Daniel Wellington was my stepping stone in to this hobby. IMO it's a perfectly good watch as it can tell the time, however it is boring in its design, and way too expensive for what it is.
@@-_--le3zk oh but I didn’t like it. That’s why it was my gateway into this hobby. It had one redeeming character, and that was that it could tell time. Which to some might be perfectly fine, was all.
@@grounddu pretty much. Most people get into this hobby through some form of cheap-ish quartz watches. I had some citizens which are certainly better than Daniel Wellington, but the funny thing is, my introduction to the concept of a mechanical watch was a cheap-o skeleton dial Stuhrling. From there on I got very lost into the world of watches.
I wear a Rolex "homage" watch daily and switch to a Daniel Wellington for dressier occasions, like the wedding I attended yesterday. I wear it so seldom that I discovered the battery was dead, so it didn't tell time, but even so, it is as useful as that Mille watch that you can't read the time on anyway.
I was taking a sip of my beer when "backhand smash" followed by a golf ball being hit and bowling pins falling over happened. I almost had an accident all over my screen and keyboard.
The Love / Hate of brands can be a fickle thing and it's a fine line between a design being appealing or garish. Fair or not, RM tends to fall on the wrong side of the road when it comes to public opinion because of the high price point and out there designs.
IF I was in a financial position where I'd consider paying Richard Mille prices for a watch I'd much rather go for something significantly more traditional!
The thought of buying a Lange or F P Journe for considerably less than the retail price of an RM is beyond belief. I wish it was a choice I could ever make.
Americans: about that bag of chips/crisps reference. The common size of a bag of chips in the UK is 28g, which is about 1oz. We get those here too, but usually only in multipacks (though I have started to see them sold loose more often lately). A better reference would be to balance two Oreos on your wrist. Much more practical than a bag of chips, and, at 22.6g (11.3g per Oreo) closer to the correct weight.
I hate DW for the simple presumption that it is a company focused only on making money. No innovation, no change, riding coattails. However, you guys just helped me to acknowledge that there are people who want what DW provide. It's a slippery slope to negatively judge a successful company for supplying a demand. It's simply what successful companies do.
The best minimalist watches are the Max Bill designed ones by Junghans. Many others have tried and failed. The DW logo is set in Times New Roman, the default of defaults. They tried to create a ligature (letter connection) and failed is my guess.
Lolz. Literally. Great point on the Junghans "Max Bill" watches. The cheapest and most authentic model can be found for $650 at discount (about $1000 list). Yes, it's been on my short list for a while, which is why I know the price. I recently bought the Longines Heritage Classic grey sector dial, and I'm thinking early to mid 20th century.
“…..by which time the bus has gone.” Just a sneaky suspicion, but I rather doubt that someone with a Richard Mille on his wrist is going to be unduly worried about catching a bus.
How can you be so calm and moderate when you are speaking about Daniel Wellington? 😂 We hate this brand just because it's bad quality for the price and their unamazing designs where find on AliExpress! 😆
The story of "Daniel Wellington" just sounds made up. Sounds more like "I need a name that sounds posh" and they went from there. DW is also the proto-MVMT (being founded first and having very similar marketing strategies), though they're slightly better made, as they farmed out the movements to Miyota. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they came out of the exact same factory in China. Not that Chinese watches are crap. I have stainless Ronda quartz movement Carnival with full tritium indices and hands that I got for $100 direct from China. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. On Richard Mille. I think I finally figured out what they're like. They're not like Aston Martin, Porsche or even Ferrari, they're like Pagani. All crazy naked machined extravagance, but definitely not for everyone's tastes.
Not a RM fan...not from a technical viewpoint cos on that front they have some special stuff it's just they're just fugly as hell. For me, a watch has to be 1st and foremost a time keeping device....if its just a piece of jewelry (which I consider RM to be) then I'm just not interested.....even if I could afford one
There's one RM I like and that's the RM 055 Bubba Watson. Probably the most "reserved" of the RM:s, it has a relatively stripped down movement that looks like it's almost floating inside the case. Almost kind of elegant compared to most other RM:s which have dials that look like Terminator vomit.
Love the direction of the channel. Huge fan of the old way (very formal professional etc) but this is fresh too. Hope the reviews stay the old style though
Richard Mille are FAR more offensive than Daniel Wellington, at least as a brand and as far as most of the watches are concerned. Why? Because they are obscenely priced huge chunks of look-at-me trash. There is zero sophistication about them and they are bought by idiots devoid of taste. Find a Richard Mille and you've probably found a music producer in Holywood who is all about the projection of wealth, they've likely had enough facial surgery to look like they have left this world, or rather that they are a new species that has just arrived, complete with clothing from the nearest circus. As for Daniel Wellington, they say very little. The design is almost entirely inoffensive. The problem with them is less the design, and more the fact that they are made out of components that are cheaper than what one might get inside an inadequate Christmas cracker. For as long as the Daniel Wellington lasts on the wrist of the none watch officianado it does a job, it tells the time. The Richard Mille tells everyone so much more about you, and none of it good ;) P.S People shouldn't confuse inappropriate yet superlative over-engineered quality with sophistication. For all of the immense workmanship that goes into making a Richard Mille, it still looks like it came out of a gumball machine, and has all the profundity and class of an ultra rich 🤡. Just because one can buy a platinum diamond encrusted toilet that contains a tourbillon filled with blood coloured oil to tell the time, does not mean owning such a shitter is a good look.
Exactly my thoughts. RM's marketing is convincing shallow idiots with a lot of money to buy obnoxious, over-engineered, mediocre time pieces for exponentially more than they're worth.
RM's are creative and unique sports watches but for 600k? C'mon, that's what makes them ridiculous. The watch community knows they're grossly over priced. A 40k-100k price I could understand. They've become just a wallet statement and not a horological one. A 30k Patek Calatrava beats a 600k RM everyday of the week.
I dislike AP. Dislike the boutique only route, the unpleasant shopping experience (in the boutique with no watches), how the feel superior over the customers (remember it is me who has the money you want) and especially I dislike the CEO. Actually I will sell my Offshore for all these reasons as I do not want to be part of this game
The Richard Mille story about designing that watch for sports reminds me of the urban myth about NASA researching a zero-G pen for many million dollars while the Russian cosmonauts used a pencil. If I want a watch that is the pinnacle of horological development and I can take it out while working with a pneumatic jackhammer for 8 hours, followed by a brisk round of squash, I'll take.a 200 buck G-shock. If I want something less pinnacle, I'll take a 20 buck F91W. Richard Mille is a loud, gauche and stupidly complex solution to a problem that has been fixed by the Japanese since 1982. It makes me feel like saying "Get off my lawn". And you can take any old watch and play tennis in it. Longines VHP quartz? Sure. A Grand Seiko quartz? Absolutely. A lowly Swatch? Fine. The only watch of mine that ever broke while doing anything is a Speedy Reduced. Never needed a 500.000 watch to do anything, aside from that incident. Honestly, I'd rather wear a Daniel Wellington. At least they don't look stupid. And a simple quartz won't break during tennis either, however irritating their marketing might be. I'll take boring and generic over gauche and vulgar any day of the week, thank you. And yes, that's not just looking at RM, but also 90% of AP's output and certainly 99% of modern Rolex. For watch nerds to hate on brands like Daniel Wellington, quite frankly, is far more cliched than the brand itself.
DW and MVMT are just watches for the dude that goes to a store with some money in his pocket that he didn't have to spend somewhere else and looked at those watches and said: "yep that looks like a watch" and bought it without wanting to know absolutely ANYTHING at all about watches.
Romain Grosjean wore a Richard Mille when he had his infamous Bahrain fireball crash and it came out relatively unscathed. If that isn’t a major selling point I don’t know what is
You shouldn't hate Ooni ovens, their ads might be terrible but I can assure you there is nothing better for Neapolitan or contemporary style pizzas at their price range, and to that's despite them raising prices because apparently they (for good reasons) sell a lot of them
One thing i actually do like about dw (i literally accidentally called them mvmt just now) is their hands. The way they taper down at the base is really cool. They wouldn’t look out of place on a lange to me. Its like the one bit of expression they actualy use.
RM has top tier quality and extreme creativity, but you’re still paying a fortune for the marketing but that’s with every luxury brand especially Patek & Cartier
I think a lot of the hate for fashion brands comes from highly excessive and dishonest marketing. The typical narrative is almost always along the lines of: we sell luxury tier watches but can keep the price much lower than traditional brands because of their direct to customer model. Though markups exist in the traditional model, the above narrative is simply not true. They keep the price 'low' because the quality of the product is even lower and most of the money gets spent on vast amounts of online marketing and unethical paid influencer endorsements (essentially bribed to lie). It's kind of clever in a way, given that watches typically range up through thousands+ yet the vast majority of people have absolutely no eye for quality and value. Marketing their offering honestly as a relatively smart looking and fashionable watches at a lowish price would not be as compelling as people feel they are getting a lower end product compared to the more expensive pieces in the shop window. Instead you have to convince people they are getting a watch that is luxury tier but it's not reflected in the price tag so they get a win-win situation.
I held in my hands a incredibly well manufactured replica RM 027 which cost around $1,500 USD (in China), and I really almost couldn't believe my eyes when inspecting all the amazing details on that replica. It's absolutely stunning how well the Chinese have duplicated this extremely advanced and complicated movement. They made it with a genuine fully functional tourbillon (a SeaGull I guess). I swear to God, that replica was something I didn't believe existed. It's almost shameful to write this since I'm a watch guy since year 1990 and had only genuine Swiss Made my whole life
A DW watch is like a Nike sneaker - the retail price is probably 50 times of what production costs in China, but it does it's job. You pay for the brand.
Well people bashing Daniel Wellington watches, but the fact is that he made himself millionaire by smart advertising and isn't that the same story with Rolex? Smart advertising making the watch more posh than it really is and selling it to people willing to spend extra money on this watch. When I heard that some guy paid 55 000$ for that Rolex Oyster Perpetual with Tiffany dial, I literally almost fainted. But hey, if people think it's worth it, what the hell!
I’d like Breamont if they hadn’t made up that ridiculous backstory. Caveat: I founded an ad agency, and in 1986 I would definitely have written that copy. But by the time they celebrated the millennium 12 months early, I would absolutely have denied doing so.
What I can't understand is why anyone likes these brands, especially Daniel Wellington. If they can't draw aproper "D", I'm not trusting them to make my watch. LOL Please feature the Tissot Seastar 2000 Professional.
We know you want more watches…. click here: linktr.ee/watchfinder
You totally missed the point why DW is hated. The exact same reasons MVMT is hated, applies here. Dirt cheap watches bought from Aliexpress being sold for 20-30 times the price under the pretext of some silly origin story and disrupting the industry. Nothing to do with the designs of the watches.
There are many companies which produce watches in china en masse that are unique and so have a brand identity. The design here is crucial.
They are cheap and made in china, but they are not dropshipped. Those dw’s you see on aliexpress are clones.
I made so much money selling these from aliexpress when they were hype lol
@@melody3741they aren’t clones, they are made in the same factory as the Daniel wellington ones. DW went to the manufacturer asked them what watches they made chose a design and said “stick our logo on that” and then sell them at 5000% profit.
I don't hate Daniel Wellington the product, I hate what they are trying to sell. A $200 quartz watch is not "affordable luxury" in any way.
"They get deeper into the hobby and they find ....everyone hate their watch" 🤣🤣🤣 you nailed that one.
lmao
What an intro, seriously guys please keep this up I am loving every release in this format.
Daniel Wellington is geared towards a fashion watch. Richard Mille is a great watch, yet the premium pricetag is unjustifiable. It has become the luxury fashion watch.
Yeah, previously the luxury fashion watch used to be Hublot…
Richard Mille watches look tacky as fuck, nothing great about it
@@warpnl1 It's all subjective and personal choice. I personally adore the IWC mark xi bronze case with the green dial. Many can't agree with the simplistic dial design. For me, it's perfect.
I personally enjoy smaller, elegant and simplistic designs. The Mille is a great watch in its own right, yet I would never wear on on my wrist. I wouldn't. It's too bold. It does not suit my personality. I'm a simple, humble man. I enjoy simplicity, and the most challenging aspect of watchmaking, is to perfect the simplistic designs. That is more rewarding for a watchmaker, in my opinion.
I am starting to build funds for Cartier Santos medium. The classic look is appealing to me. It's not tacky, as you say, unlike the Mille we both agree upon.
I live in Bulgaria - there is a chain of watch shops here called "Exess" they have home brand watches called "Rital" after the guys that own the company. I know them, they sell the exaxt same watches that Danial Wellington does. The Chinese companies have a range of watches and they will print your logo on them and engrave the back.
Exess sell them for about £10 to £30
@@piccalillipit9211
That is interesting. It shows how marketing raises the value of a product. They are minimalist in design, but we know value. £10-30 is perfectly priced.
Why the f**** would you ever get a Richard Mille for multiple hundreds of thousands when you can get a Greubel Forsey and still have money left over for a Lange 1
I concur. I'm not against lavishly expensive watches bought "just becasue", but for me personally I would spend my horological doubloons elsewhere.
Because people don't just buy watches for their horological value. Believe or not some people actually buy watches to show off their wealth. I can tell you right now when people see a Richard Mille they know you paid shit tons of money for it. When people see a Greubel Forever 99% of them would have no idea what it is.
I hate the fact you spelled fuck with 3 letters.
Probably because the people buying them have enough money for all the watches you listed. The people buying RM’s aren’t spending their last paycheck to finally get one. They have the kind of “fuck you money” where a couple hundred grand is inconsequential to them. And to clarify, I absolutely despise the look of RM’s and would never in a million years ever buy one. But the people who _are_ buying them are just living in a completely different universe. They’re to the point where tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars starts to lose all meaning
Because I suspect that your hip-hop celebrity friends wouldn't be able to recognize a Greubel Forsey, let alone be able to pronounce it.
DW plays a very important marketing role where the traditional brands have failed - the proof is in the numbers of people buying what is essentially an Ali-Express rebranding exercise.
An important Proof that the majority of people are insanely stupid when it comes to their buying decisions.
@@brunoschoelkopf9174 wow! What a novel take - I never heard that version before.
@@shawnz241 ok
DW buyers are a marketing persons wet dream and their back story is so laughingly absurd.
@@shawnz241 Funny, those are EXACTLY my thoughts when I see a DW watch.
If people treat brilliant devices as a status symbol or anything other than loving it for what it is I do not like those people. Being genuine is a prerequisite to being a good person.
I think that’s a bit presumptuous. You can like showing off while still being genuine. I really like my watches. I really love the craftsmanship and the stories behind them. I also love it when someone says “nice watch”. Any luxury watch is a status symbol.
@M. Milo Yup. Infact, Any luxury item or service is a status symbol. Expensive car. Expensive meal at a 5 star restaurant. Expensive shoes. Expensive Education. All these things are status symbols.
@@Mmmmilo well the important qualifier is “anything other” you can do both, that’s fine, but if its ONLY a status symbol, thats where i think you are a disingenuous.
@@kamu747 But it should be more than that to you if you buy it. If you buy it ONLY to show off then you’re shallow and vain.
So we can justify people who are getting "homage" watches, even though there's plenty of watches you can get in the same price point and not become laughing stock whenever you show up with your rolex Oyster Perpetual powered by genuine "swiss movement" ETA NH35A
Every time someone mentions Daniel Wellington, all I can of is Beef Wellington 😅
The ‘my mom used to tape a bag a crisps to my wrist so I wouldn’t forget them so I know what am RM will feel like’ is probably the funniest comment I’ve heard on these podcasts.
Great video, and I really like the use of microphones as a visual effect. I do, however, wonder why you didn't pair richard mille and hublot together with mvmt and dw together as well like a double bill. Perhaps because of the different angles you two come at is the point of this series. I cannot reasonably say that the price of rm's or hublot models are worth that much, nor that rolex is even worth as much as it sells for realistically (unless you can get msrp at some future point), but it's always interesting to see different angles on attainable watches so please keep on the current trends of your reporting. I think the strength of your channel is that you can present a seiko or longines with the same gravitas and respect as a lange und soehne, great job.
When I owned my store in North Florida a gentleman whom I've sold many timepieces to asked me if I could replace the strap on his rm so I proceeded to contact rm for the tool to remove the screws they refused to sell me one the owner of the watch who paid nearly $200k
Was quite upset as nearest ad was 300 miles away so I formed a negative opinion of the brand
Look up "We Knives". They are a high-end Chinese knife maker who used those EXACT same "star" screws on their knives for the first few years. They used to include the tool with each knife for disassembly. Enough people threw a fit and they changed to traditional torx screws. They probably still sell the tool (or you could find an old model on Ebay that includes the tool). Now you have a RM disassembly tool!
I would not take the chance of marring the heads of the screws on a $200k timepiece I've seen many ruined case back screws on countless watches that clients brought in for batteries by poor service people. Original tools are the key to quality plus rm has his screws made to his specs not a standard item not worth the risk but thanks for the advice.
@@timhenry326 Makes sense.
@@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg6980 years ago a lady brought in a Patek quartz loaded with diamonds the screw slots were unrecognizable but still removable. My concern with rm is you wouldn't want to slip up and scratch the case or mar the heads it was 18k rose and this guy was a serious collector you should have seen his wall of watch winder with no space unfilled that was back 15 years ago
@@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg6980 I love seeing knife people on watch videos, as a knife enthusiast and a watch enthusiast is just makes me smile.
Absolutely loved the 80s archie luxery intro
Look into the origin story of Chinese brand Reef Tiger. It makes the Daniel Wellington origins sound completely plausible by comparison
I wanted to comment just that 😂😂
Well, I don't think I've ever read a bs story made up before by one of the brands that simply took over a quartz crisis victims name so this is a first for me. Brands like Festina, Lanco and the like usually just dodge the matter entirely in the hopes that no one asks any questions.
The word for the DW watch is "plain". I've always found it interesting that teenagers and young adults liked the look. To me it is no different from putting a plain wall clock on your wrist. And it is cheap, not worth the $270 odd price. The quartz moment inside is no different than a quartz fashion watch that costs $35. (Someone investigated,)
Because teenagers and young adults often don't have enough experience with watches and design to tell how uninspired this is. People grow out of it, but DW still sells enough before that point.
Both brands have ridiculous pricetags but at least RM has its own research team and has also recently made its own movements. Daniel Wellington is literally 100% marketing.
Hey, actually I got a DW 5 years ago because they settled a pop up store next to where I work, and found the minimalistic design appealing, (without knowing I could find basically the same watch watch on Ali for 10% of the price)
Then I bought my first automatic watch, from an equally overpriced unknown french brand that put some miyota in their watches,
And later I got deeper into the hobby and realized that even if I "lost" about 400€ buying those craps, I learnt so much things and discovered a new world. That was worth it to me.
Nowadays I don't like to wear these anymore, but I kept them both, as a reminder (and it probably wouldn't be worth a penny if I'd try to sell them lol)
So in some way, thanks DW.
The success of Richard Mille is the marketing genuis of its founder. The problem is the dude is 71 yo. So there's that. Besides, RMs designs are not timeless which means with changing fashion these watches will become extremely unwearable, especially by the elite, whose star power RMs are riding on, and who wanna remain in 'trend', and then these models will completely tank in value. And then there's this, whichever happens first.
For my taste the problem with most RM watches is not the price, nor the complications nor ..., but the one keyfactor i for myself hold as the holy grale of watches in general, and that is the ability to read the time when i look at it.
And here, as far as I can say RM just looses my respect as a watchmaker.
I have to admit that i never ever had a RM in my hand and probably never will, but if videos of any kind are somehow close to what you see there is close to what you would see in reality you just cant read the time in a blink of an eye, and that is enough for me to not like them as a watch, maybe as a statement what someone can do mechanically in a very confined space, but not as a watch.
Yes! I know people love these crazy skeleton looking watch and it does indeed looks cool and all but pretty much impossible to tell the time with it at a glance. The old "just look at your phone" argument is seriously flawed, yes I mostly bought expensive pieces to admire the dial and build quality but I can't tell the damn time with it then it hold no value to me as a watch which defeat the purpose of wearing a watch to begin with
Nailed it Georg. These machines are amazing pieces of engineering, but as someone who is badly colour blind seeing the actual time is a real challenge. And that is the main reason for wearing a watch.
It was really neat to hear you talking about the similarities between watches and cars. You should do a video going through significant cars and their matching watch. What watch would be a Ferrari 458? What would be a Ford F-150? What would be the VW Beetle of the watch world?
Ford F-150 would be a Seiko SKX, VW Beetle would be a Casio F91w, Ferrari would be a Richard Mille (im sure you could match specific model car to specific RM watches), Lamborghini would be Hublot, And Kia’s would be Daniel Wellingtons
@@ryanpeck3377 ferrari would not be Richard mille. makes a lot more sense to call it Patek. Lamborghini AP, and you could say Bugatti is lange & sohne.
@@qwertpoiuy430 I'd say Rolex is Ferrari...Vacheron Constantine is Rolls Royce. Seiko is Honda and Grand Seiko is Acura.
@@ryanpeck3377 Kias are absolutely not DWs unless you still live in 2004. Hyundai-Kia-Genesis are moreso like Orient's these days.
@@SiamHossain7 nahhhh, kia/Hyundai still have massive quality control issues and under-performing vehicles for their classes. Even in 2023.
I love these podcast-style videos you have been doing - smart, funny, and so British. More, please!
Ello Guvna! You wanna cuppa Tea Mate?..Gonna Go down the Pub for a pint later then for some Pie & Mash or a Chippy..maybe a Kebab..Sharron's probably bringin the Birds down..Wanna Pull Mate?
That'll be a Fiver Pleeeease!
😀😘
They're good, it reminds me a little of Internet Historian
Tissot got some history. But it got flushed away its older than rolex
I just can't tell you how much I look forward to these video's. I don't always watch videos right away that I chose to ring the bell but I do these.
After watching many many watch videos I am tired of the minutia of blued screws and hand rubbed edges.
To comment on the watches, I will never be able to afford an RM and I would not want to buy a DW. I do love my Seiko SRPD 95.
Living the Rafael Nadal dream but accompanied by hearing a golf ball being driven down a range and not a tennis balls across a court !
Daniel Wellington was my stepping stone in to this hobby. IMO it's a perfectly good watch as it can tell the time, however it is boring in its design, and way too expensive for what it is.
Dude ANY watch can tell time,your phone can also tell time,so that is not a valid point,but if you like your watch,then that is good for you
@@-_--le3zk oh but I didn’t like it. That’s why it was my gateway into this hobby. It had one redeeming character, and that was that it could tell time. Which to some might be perfectly fine, was all.
@@grounddu pretty much. Most people get into this hobby through some form of cheap-ish quartz watches. I had some citizens which are certainly better than Daniel Wellington, but the funny thing is, my introduction to the concept of a mechanical watch was a cheap-o skeleton dial Stuhrling. From there on I got very lost into the world of watches.
I wear a Rolex "homage" watch daily and switch to a Daniel Wellington for dressier occasions, like the wedding I attended yesterday. I wear it so seldom that I discovered the battery was dead, so it didn't tell time, but even so, it is as useful as that Mille watch that you can't read the time on anyway.
I hope no one at a wedding asks you the time.
Only thing about DW that makes me happy is that their year to year revenue is sinking faster than a stone.
Really? But what is taking their place?
Hahaha I totally lost it when he says “Denial Wellington” 😂
I was taking a sip of my beer when "backhand smash" followed by a golf ball being hit and bowling pins falling over happened. I almost had an accident all over my screen and keyboard.
I love when you mention Rafael Nadal and you hear a golf ball being hit afterward...CLASSIC!
The Love / Hate of brands can be a fickle thing and it's a fine line between a design being appealing or garish. Fair or not, RM tends to fall on the wrong side of the road when it comes to public opinion because of the high price point and out there designs.
IF I was in a financial position where I'd consider paying Richard Mille prices for a watch I'd much rather go for something significantly more traditional!
The thought of buying a Lange or F P Journe for considerably less than the retail price of an RM is beyond belief.
I wish it was a choice I could ever make.
What music started this program? Loved it!
Americans: about that bag of chips/crisps reference. The common size of a bag of chips in the UK is 28g, which is about 1oz.
We get those here too, but usually only in multipacks (though I have started to see them sold loose more often lately).
A better reference would be to balance two Oreos on your wrist. Much more practical than a bag of chips, and, at 22.6g (11.3g per Oreo) closer to the correct weight.
Thank you for that advice.
that second watch is probably the worlds most expensive shitpost
0:13 👌😗 That instrumental tho
I hate DW for the simple presumption that it is a company focused only on making money. No innovation, no change, riding coattails.
However, you guys just helped me to acknowledge that there are people who want what DW provide.
It's a slippery slope to negatively judge a successful company for supplying a demand. It's simply what successful companies do.
When man uses logic over emotion. 👏🏾
I think that when we have to find "excuses" to find favourable things about these brands means that they're equally bad.
🎯
As someone who likes simple watches I can't think of anything good I can say about RM
Loving the series intro
Simplicity is complexity resolved ✔️
That was a great intro guys 👌🏼. Jeezus I'd fall asleep just reading the time on those DW's.
The best minimalist watches are the Max Bill designed ones by Junghans. Many others have tried and failed. The DW logo is set in Times New Roman, the default of defaults. They tried to create a ligature (letter connection) and failed is my guess.
Lolz. Literally. Great point on the Junghans "Max Bill" watches. The cheapest and most authentic model can be found for $650 at discount (about $1000 list).
Yes, it's been on my short list for a while, which is why I know the price. I recently bought the Longines Heritage Classic grey sector dial, and I'm thinking early to mid 20th century.
the opposite of love is not hate ... it's indifference ... hello from cape town
“…..by which time the bus has gone.”
Just a sneaky suspicion, but I rather doubt that someone with a Richard Mille on his wrist is going to be unduly worried about catching a bus.
How can you be so calm and moderate when you are speaking about Daniel Wellington? 😂
We hate this brand just because it's bad quality for the price and their unamazing designs where find on AliExpress! 😆
These two brands make an Apple Watch look like it deserves a Nobel Prize in Watchmaking. And I despise Apple watches
Love the Hunter S. Thompson quote at 7:35
The story of "Daniel Wellington" just sounds made up. Sounds more like "I need a name that sounds posh" and they went from there. DW is also the proto-MVMT (being founded first and having very similar marketing strategies), though they're slightly better made, as they farmed out the movements to Miyota. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they came out of the exact same factory in China.
Not that Chinese watches are crap. I have stainless Ronda quartz movement Carnival with full tritium indices and hands that I got for $100 direct from China. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
On Richard Mille. I think I finally figured out what they're like. They're not like Aston Martin, Porsche or even Ferrari, they're like Pagani. All crazy naked machined extravagance, but definitely not for everyone's tastes.
Not a RM fan...not from a technical viewpoint cos on that front they have some special stuff it's just they're just fugly as hell.
For me, a watch has to be 1st and foremost a time keeping device....if its just a piece of jewelry (which I consider RM to be) then I'm just not interested.....even if I could afford one
"Backhand smash...", then bowling strike sound effect is played lol.
There's one RM I like and that's the RM 055 Bubba Watson. Probably the most "reserved" of the RM:s, it has a relatively stripped down movement that looks like it's almost floating inside the case. Almost kind of elegant compared to most other RM:s which have dials that look like Terminator vomit.
I’m trying to get my jeweler to put a Daniel Wellington Dial on my Hublot, I just love it so much 😀
I am glad that I was not drinking anything when I read this.
😂😂😂😂😂
This is such a soothing listen every week. Perfect for the gym in my book
The Lange at 13:11 literally just looks like a DW with dots above the indices.
Love the direction of the channel. Huge fan of the old way (very formal professional etc) but this is fresh too. Hope the reviews stay the old style though
🤣🤣 love these videos/podcasts. Wish there were more a week! 🤞
Just wanted to say I appreciated the little "we don't know sports" joke at 1:48 with the golf swing and bowling pins.
Richard Mille are FAR more offensive than Daniel Wellington, at least as a brand and as far as most of the watches are concerned. Why? Because they are obscenely priced huge chunks of look-at-me trash. There is zero sophistication about them and they are bought by idiots devoid of taste. Find a Richard Mille and you've probably found a music producer in Holywood who is all about the projection of wealth, they've likely had enough facial surgery to look like they have left this world, or rather that they are a new species that has just arrived, complete with clothing from the nearest circus. As for Daniel Wellington, they say very little. The design is almost entirely inoffensive. The problem with them is less the design, and more the fact that they are made out of components that are cheaper than what one might get inside an inadequate Christmas cracker. For as long as the Daniel Wellington lasts on the wrist of the none watch officianado it does a job, it tells the time. The Richard Mille tells everyone so much more about you, and none of it good ;)
P.S
People shouldn't confuse inappropriate yet superlative over-engineered quality with sophistication. For all of the immense workmanship that goes into making a Richard Mille, it still looks like it came out of a gumball machine, and has all the profundity and class of an ultra rich 🤡. Just because one can buy a platinum diamond encrusted toilet that contains a tourbillon filled with blood coloured oil to tell the time, does not mean owning such a shitter is a good look.
Exactly my thoughts. RM's marketing is convincing shallow idiots with a lot of money to buy obnoxious, over-engineered, mediocre time pieces for exponentially more than they're worth.
@@steelhead750 - very much so.
Agreed. RM pieces might be technically interesting, but I wouldn’t ever be caught wearing one even if I was given it for free. Utterly tasteless.
Upvoted because I laughed.
@@skzion2 I'll take that lol :)
Rm has an amazing movement in all of their watches.
They are incredible pieces of engineering. It cannot be denied even by those hating the designs.
I don't know about the watches, but I get those oven ads as well. Blech.
Nothing says “please guillotine me first when the revolution comes” quite like wearing a Richard Mille monstrosity.
But it’s anti-establishment! Somehow…
So thoughtful of RM to test the RM69 on 5 positions
😆😆😆
That intro was really good.
RM's are creative and unique sports watches but for 600k? C'mon, that's what makes them ridiculous. The watch community knows they're grossly over priced. A 40k-100k price I could understand. They've become just a wallet statement and not a horological one. A 30k Patek Calatrava beats a 600k RM everyday of the week.
That Richard Mille photo you did was so freaking hysterical. Loved the aura and vibes it gave off. 13/10.
I dislike AP. Dislike the boutique only route, the unpleasant shopping experience (in the boutique with no watches), how the feel superior over the customers (remember it is me who has the money you want) and especially I dislike the CEO.
Actually I will sell my Offshore for all these reasons as I do not want to be part of this game
I’m going to sell my ten!
The Richard Mille story about designing that watch for sports reminds me of the urban myth about NASA researching a zero-G pen for many million dollars while the Russian cosmonauts used a pencil.
If I want a watch that is the pinnacle of horological development and I can take it out while working with a pneumatic jackhammer for 8 hours, followed by a brisk round of squash, I'll take.a 200 buck G-shock. If I want something less pinnacle, I'll take a 20 buck F91W.
Richard Mille is a loud, gauche and stupidly complex solution to a problem that has been fixed by the Japanese since 1982. It makes me feel like saying "Get off my lawn". And you can take any old watch and play tennis in it. Longines VHP quartz? Sure. A Grand Seiko quartz? Absolutely. A lowly Swatch? Fine. The only watch of mine that ever broke while doing anything is a Speedy Reduced. Never needed a 500.000 watch to do anything, aside from that incident.
Honestly, I'd rather wear a Daniel Wellington. At least they don't look stupid. And a simple quartz won't break during tennis either, however irritating their marketing might be. I'll take boring and generic over gauche and vulgar any day of the week, thank you. And yes, that's not just looking at RM, but also 90% of AP's output and certainly 99% of modern Rolex.
For watch nerds to hate on brands like Daniel Wellington, quite frankly, is far more cliched than the brand itself.
well nasa had to because pencils are dangerous in space, because they are made of graphite
tissot is better than DW
That Daniel Wellington watch reminds me of a school classroom clock
Never stop making these please
DW and MVMT are just watches for the dude that goes to a store with some money in his pocket that he didn't have to spend somewhere else and looked at those watches and said: "yep that looks like a watch" and bought it without wanting to know absolutely ANYTHING at all about watches.
Love the opener on this guys 🧀👍
Romain Grosjean wore a Richard Mille when he had his infamous Bahrain fireball crash and it came out relatively unscathed. If that isn’t a major selling point I don’t know what is
Why would a F1 driver wear a watch when racing
You shouldn't hate Ooni ovens, their ads might be terrible but I can assure you there is nothing better for Neapolitan or contemporary style pizzas at their price range, and to that's despite them raising prices because apparently they (for good reasons) sell a lot of them
Please! Please do Bremont. 🤞🏾
Loving these dialogue videos!
RM is in the same category as Jacob & Co
This is the digital foundry of watches.
Good for you. You can dislike watches, but there’s no reason to hate.
One thing i actually do like about dw (i literally accidentally called them mvmt just now) is their hands. The way they taper down at the base is really cool. They wouldn’t look out of place on a lange to me. Its like the one bit of expression they actualy use.
Does the RM69 actually tell you what the time is? Because ive been staring at it for a minute now and I cant find where it tells the time.
Oh my goodness...that intro!:-D
What song is that at the beginning of your video?
Nice format. I would listen to a podcast like this any day.
RM has top tier quality and extreme creativity, but you’re still paying a fortune for the marketing but that’s with every luxury brand especially Patek & Cartier
There are very reasonably priced Cartiers.
I think a lot of the hate for fashion brands comes from highly excessive and dishonest marketing. The typical narrative is almost always along the lines of: we sell luxury tier watches but can keep the price much lower than traditional brands because of their direct to customer model. Though markups exist in the traditional model, the above narrative is simply not true. They keep the price 'low' because the quality of the product is even lower and most of the money gets spent on vast amounts of online marketing and unethical paid influencer endorsements (essentially bribed to lie).
It's kind of clever in a way, given that watches typically range up through thousands+ yet the vast majority of people have absolutely no eye for quality and value. Marketing their offering honestly as a relatively smart looking and fashionable watches at a lowish price would not be as compelling as people feel they are getting a lower end product compared to the more expensive pieces in the shop window. Instead you have to convince people they are getting a watch that is luxury tier but it's not reflected in the price tag so they get a win-win situation.
Daniel Wellington was my first watch. After a few years it was replaced by a Lange Saxonia.
Ohh, well…
Lolz. Is this true?
I held in my hands a incredibly well manufactured replica RM 027 which cost around $1,500 USD (in China), and I really almost couldn't believe my eyes when inspecting all the amazing details on that replica. It's absolutely stunning how well the Chinese have duplicated this extremely advanced and complicated movement. They made it with a genuine fully functional tourbillon (a SeaGull I guess). I swear to God, that replica was something I didn't believe existed. It's almost shameful to write this since I'm a watch guy since year 1990 and had only genuine Swiss Made my whole life
I am in awe of the acerbic oration…
I love these chats guys!
Looking at DW, there is an Indian watch brand called Joker & Witch. Pretty much the same watch, almost a tenth of the price.
A DW watch is like a Nike sneaker - the retail price is probably 50 times of what production costs in China, but it does it's job. You pay for the brand.
Well people bashing Daniel Wellington watches, but the fact is that he made himself millionaire by smart advertising and isn't that the same story with Rolex? Smart advertising making the watch more posh than it really is and selling it to people willing to spend extra money on this watch. When I heard that some guy paid 55 000$ for that Rolex Oyster Perpetual with Tiffany dial, I literally almost fainted. But hey, if people think it's worth it, what the hell!
I’d like Breamont if they hadn’t made up that ridiculous backstory. Caveat: I founded an ad agency, and in 1986 I would definitely have written that copy. But by the time they celebrated the millennium 12 months early, I would absolutely have denied doing so.
I dont understand how your podcast mics are so terrible when the feature videos audio are excellent.
This was the funniest episode I've seen from you guys, some great lines in there!
What I can't understand is why anyone likes these brands, especially Daniel Wellington. If they can't draw aproper "D", I'm not trusting them to make my watch. LOL
Please feature the Tissot Seastar 2000 Professional.
Can someone tell me what’s the background music
You guys should do a video about Skagen, who were similar to DW in simplesity but have recently lost their way.