This makes me miss the old demo disc format from the late 90's/early 2000's. You know, like the CD's Computer Gaming World would send out with a bunch of demos on it? Almost like a free bundle of games included with your subscription. Granted we now live in an era of digital distribution and abundance of choice, but I think choice paralysis plays a big part in why audiences latch onto AAA and the big indies instead of taking risks on unknown games (unless they're free AND high quality, ala Content Warning or Nightmare Kart). I'd love to see an update to Steam Curators, for instance, that isn't a redundant review system but instead lets them highlight new demos for their followers to check out.
I appreciate hearing your thoughts Chet. This is a very complex topic. I’ll have to hop in the discord and share my thoughts and experiences sometimes.
Without RPS and Graham's coverage, Jalopy would have never found it's audience. I never sent out any press or announcements. Graham found the game deep within a TIGSource forums. I don't think the issue is journalism or there being too many games, but more that where people find the interesting things is becoming increasingly fragmented around closed sections of the web. Twitter is done. Self-promotion will get you banned on Reddit. Discord is a closed community with worries about permanence. I can only imagine how packed the average journalist's email folder looks like. All this is to say I do not envy the task of curation and that I do not have any solutions. Though I would like to hear more from Chet about why Valve doesn't feel the need to work more on curation within Steam. Maybe they also feel this is just an impossible situation? Anyway, thank you so much for your work at RPS. You will never understand how crucial it was in allowing me the privilege of continuing to make games.
@@chetfaliszek You're right in that the value has changed. I think we still write as much about indie and mid-sized games as we ever did, but we write about them more often now when they're released, and less often when they're still in development. That makes a big difference in where our influence lies. And our readers are definitely aging with us, which doesn't help.
League of Geeks news is really sad. We met Trent a few years ago at GDC in a developer round table where my partner was getting ignored and talked over. Trent interrupted the room to ask if she would like to finish what she wanted to say. A really small gesture but for a young developer it changed the feeling of "what am I doing here" to her feeling like her voice mattered. I imagine League of Geeks was a real great place to work and I hope the best for all involved.
Yeah, we've started to see some of this happening on SENTRY - typically when you get a "ded gaem" comment or review, you'll get a couple more shortly after. Seems to be contagious.
The most annoying thing to me with "ded game" is with multiplayer games, is the game is alive and has a stable community, but it hasn't recieved an update in 3 months, that means it's a dead game. I personally blame gaming youtubers for this because their revenue is directly correlated to game devs updating the game, because they get the most views when a new thing happens in your game. So no updates no clicks for them means game is dead. I find it very parasitic. What happened to playing a game because you *gasp* find it fun
@@chetfaliszekalso these comments are always coupled with the “steam active users” number, which is pretty silly with a (currently) single player game 😅
I think what also hurts is you only get the one real shot at launch to get that momentum. I see a lot of decent games fumble on launch and sometimes, that's all it takes for it to miss out.
Second Wind has a pretty good indie review series, Bytesized. They too might be skimming the top of analytics to Chet's point, but, from my end, I think there is a healthy amount of small stuff they cover I don't see anyone else cover. I've also listened to the Bitcast Podcast, and two of the regular guests actively search out small games to review and have a pretty good nose for them.
You're wrong! Wait. No, you're right. Especially about there being a weirdly strong current of anti-small, or at least anti-not-big. That feels really weird for someone our (I'm early 40s,) age, where we grew up in a time where not being popular meant it was closer to "individual", and that was something that gained you credence, not doubt/shun. Or at least, the culture seemed split enough that those two attitudes both existed in healthy proportion. But growing up in a time of ubiquitous corporations, and Internet/hardware that requires trust, you trust recognizable names like Apple and Google, not some random indie site. So culture is a huge aspect, but also consider the current economics. Even as an adult in my 20s (the 2000s) I had the money to spend on full-price new games fairly often. That's not the case for me anymore, and a lot of other people, both my age and younger. So naturally people spend less, and put it on those few big games. I just can't help but wonder if the "other-ism" of attacking non-huge games is in some way of trying to convince yourself you're not missing out? I don't know. Maybe that's a weird theory? But I do think harsh subjective opinions of things can be influenced by economically determined choices. ("I didn't want that anyway! It's crap!" as a coping mechanism, increased by the toxicity of the worst of modern culture producing a feedback loop and identity derived from that kind of hate around things.)
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This makes me miss the old demo disc format from the late 90's/early 2000's. You know, like the CD's Computer Gaming World would send out with a bunch of demos on it? Almost like a free bundle of games included with your subscription. Granted we now live in an era of digital distribution and abundance of choice, but I think choice paralysis plays a big part in why audiences latch onto AAA and the big indies instead of taking risks on unknown games (unless they're free AND high quality, ala Content Warning or Nightmare Kart). I'd love to see an update to Steam Curators, for instance, that isn't a redundant review system but instead lets them highlight new demos for their followers to check out.
It’s now winner takes all. It’s “the hunger games”, where a few people win and everyone else starves
I appreciate hearing your thoughts Chet. This is a very complex topic. I’ll have to hop in the discord and share my thoughts and experiences sometimes.
I've been working on RPS for over ten years, and we're not evil yet. Please don't immediately write us off.
Without RPS and Graham's coverage, Jalopy would have never found it's audience. I never sent out any press or announcements. Graham found the game deep within a TIGSource forums.
I don't think the issue is journalism or there being too many games, but more that where people find the interesting things is becoming increasingly fragmented around closed sections of the web. Twitter is done. Self-promotion will get you banned on Reddit. Discord is a closed community with worries about permanence. I can only imagine how packed the average journalist's email folder looks like. All this is to say I do not envy the task of curation and that I do not have any solutions.
Though I would like to hear more from Chet about why Valve doesn't feel the need to work more on curation within Steam. Maybe they also feel this is just an impossible situation?
Anyway, thank you so much for your work at RPS. You will never understand how crucial it was in allowing me the privilege of continuing to make games.
Fair…. But even your coverage has changed since those early days and the value of discovery has gone e down.
@@minskworks3848 Thanks, that means a lot to hear.
@@chetfaliszek You're right in that the value has changed. I think we still write as much about indie and mid-sized games as we ever did, but we write about them more often now when they're released, and less often when they're still in development. That makes a big difference in where our influence lies. And our readers are definitely aging with us, which doesn't help.
@@Gonnas2 Yeah - I think some of this is just the changing of the value of these as seen by the reader... it's a hard problem.
League of Geeks news is really sad. We met Trent a few years ago at GDC in a developer round table where my partner was getting ignored and talked over. Trent interrupted the room to ask if she would like to finish what she wanted to say. A really small gesture but for a young developer it changed the feeling of "what am I doing here" to her feeling like her voice mattered. I imagine League of Geeks was a real great place to work and I hope the best for all involved.
Yeah Trent’s the best.
Yeah, we've started to see some of this happening on SENTRY - typically when you get a "ded gaem" comment or review, you'll get a couple more shortly after. Seems to be contagious.
YES! There is some secret word mouth hate that spreads.
The most annoying thing to me with "ded game" is with multiplayer games, is the game is alive and has a stable community, but it hasn't recieved an update in 3 months, that means it's a dead game.
I personally blame gaming youtubers for this because their revenue is directly correlated to game devs updating the game, because they get the most views when a new thing happens in your game. So no updates no clicks for them means game is dead.
I find it very parasitic.
What happened to playing a game because you *gasp* find it fun
@@chetfaliszekalso these comments are always coupled with the “steam active users” number, which is pretty silly with a (currently) single player game 😅
I think what also hurts is you only get the one real shot at launch to get that momentum.
I see a lot of decent games fumble on launch and sometimes, that's all it takes for it to miss out.
Yes! Our initial thought was to launch and build back - and we were denied and the stink of the launch stayed with us.
Second Wind has a pretty good indie review series, Bytesized. They too might be skimming the top of analytics to Chet's point, but, from my end, I think there is a healthy amount of small stuff they cover I don't see anyone else cover.
I've also listened to the Bitcast Podcast, and two of the regular guests actively search out small games to review and have a pretty good nose for them.
You're wrong! Wait. No, you're right. Especially about there being a weirdly strong current of anti-small, or at least anti-not-big. That feels really weird for someone our (I'm early 40s,) age, where we grew up in a time where not being popular meant it was closer to "individual", and that was something that gained you credence, not doubt/shun. Or at least, the culture seemed split enough that those two attitudes both existed in healthy proportion. But growing up in a time of ubiquitous corporations, and Internet/hardware that requires trust, you trust recognizable names like Apple and Google, not some random indie site.
So culture is a huge aspect, but also consider the current economics. Even as an adult in my 20s (the 2000s) I had the money to spend on full-price new games fairly often. That's not the case for me anymore, and a lot of other people, both my age and younger. So naturally people spend less, and put it on those few big games. I just can't help but wonder if the "other-ism" of attacking non-huge games is in some way of trying to convince yourself you're not missing out? I don't know. Maybe that's a weird theory? But I do think harsh subjective opinions of things can be influenced by economically determined choices. ("I didn't want that anyway! It's crap!" as a coping mechanism, increased by the toxicity of the worst of modern culture producing a feedback loop and identity derived from that kind of hate around things.)
Good point on the cred idea.