Oh my gods, I forgot to talk about Arcane! (I honestly forget it’s based on a video game because I never got into League of Legends or indeed any game in the MOBA genre.) Thankfully my points about Castlevania pretty much match Arcane as well (game has almost no plot and a ton of lore).
You said that a TV show where you watch the same story but with slight differences each time, and the players die over and over again would be boring. You're describing the 80s British tv show Knightmare, and that was AMAZING!!!
@@Stephen_The_Waxing_Lyricist Yeah, but that's a gameshow. And different players each time so it wasn't really the same 'dieing over and over' experience any more than watching a season of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire or £1,000,000 money drop live is. And was more varied in what it presented to the contestants than you might assume IIRC a rewatch of it recently (aside Level 1 in S4 due to the focus on acquiring the eye shield as a mini-objective within that level that season. I may have done a complete rewatch within the past decade.) And, admittedly, I did also cite a gameshow as one of my two examples in a post - The Deja Vu episode of Game Changer. Because for me it's the same people repeating the same events and gaining competence (and possibly unlocking new abilities) from loop to loop that captures the roguelike experience (One that comes _close_ that I've since thought of would be... Time Loop of the Daleks, forget the name of the episode... the reason that falls down is that the Daleks and the Heroes are both learning from their repetition, so that comes across less like a roguelike and more like series play in a board game where each side is adapting their strategy based on what the other is doing)
I've always been very vocal about the fact I think the only Wicked movie that would be worth making is an animated one. Because then you're replacing the spectacle of seeing these special effects performed live on stage with creative freedom animators have to create visuals that would never be possible in live-action.
Thank you for touching on the “minimum barrier entry” for video games! I’m autistic, and part of that for me is that I don’t have the best motor skills. Not that impede my ability to move in general, but to the point where making coordinated movements (especially with my fingers) is *sooo* exhausting. I struggle immensely with typing on keyboards, playing instruments, and yes, playing video games. Everytime I’ve told people “oh, I can’t play video games”, they usually just assume that I’m not as skilled or something, but no. I genuinely. CANNOT. Play video games. It takes all of my energy to try and coordinate my finger movements, and at that point, I don’t even consider myself “playing the game”. I can’t immerse myself in the experience, the characters, the *worldbuilding* (my personal favorite), or just the overall “plot” because I have to 100% focus on the controls. And that’s not enjoyable at all. Watching adaptations of these stories is my way of engaging with the game, and I’m so grateful that these shows exist to help me explore a world I never would’ve gotten to otherwise. Edit: sorry for the wall of text y’all
I completely agree about the accessibility of games turned into tv series. I am awful at games like that, but I enjoy the lore and the worldbuilding in them. I've had to watch my husband or my teenage kids play these games so that I can see how they end, some of which even have multiple endings. It was nice to finally get to sit down in front of the tv and experience 'Fallout' on the same level with my family this time. We would certainly be on board if Bioshock got the same treatment!
I was 10 when I first saw Star Wars in 1977 and you are exactly right. From that opening scene with the Star Destroyer (we didn’t know it was called that) filling the frame, we were immersed in that galaxy. I still get chills thinking about it.
"Photosensitivities of any kind" is an excellent phrase. I am not photosensitive in the medical sense - I do not have epilepsy, I have never had a seizure, etc. But I do find the sort of intense flickering light that many games go with to be unpleasant in a visceral way that is hard to properly express. In most gaming experiences that offer photosensitive-safe options for those who have epilepsy, I will use them (much like how I will usually turn on subtitles despite not being hard of hearing). I don't need it, and if the anti-flicker option is too underwhelming like in Subnautica, I will turn it back to flickery mode, but...yeah, there's all sorts of ways that people can be sensitive to light beyond just the one that has significant medical implications. ---- I also greatly appreciate that certain games cannot be adapted well, like Undertale. My best experience there is Dark Souls. That is a game with a deep and complex lore that can be adapted in myriad ways (and a dedicated and extremely prolific community of video essayists who do so), a pretty simple story that can be summarized in a paragraph and could probably be presented in a movie without issue...and the core theme that I took away from the game cannot be properly conveyed by ANY of that. This takes a bit of sharing. I played Dark Souls at a point in my life where I was living with my parents with a bachelor's degree and no career, very few friends, and no prospects for that situation to change meaningfully. I wasn't quite at the point of considering *ending* that life, but...I was somewhere along the path toward that sort of thing. So yes, I played the game with a reputation for being brutally, oppressively difficult. I'm not sure why. In Dark Souls, for those who don't know, a core mechanic is that your character, and most other characters you encounter, have the "Undead curse" - when they die, they eventually recover. All cultures in this world respond to this effect in different ways - the place we are from takes them to the "undead asylum" - a broken down dungeon of a place where they are locked in cells and slowly go mad. The game opens with you sitting in despair, nothing having changed for who knows how long, and then someone drops a corpse bearing a key into your cell. That key opens the door, and allows you to explore. You see dozens of undead in this asylum, all gripped by a madness that in the lore is called being "Hollow" (which describes both their physical state, which your character shares, and their mental state, which your character does not yet share.) Some wallow in despair, some beat their heads against the wall, some lash out and attack you. (But not each other. It's a game, they're enemies, that's how this works). And presumably, by presenting you in a prison, you seek escape. You encounter a terrible demon guarding the exit, you explore further, you encounter your mysterious benefactor who also provides you with a means of healing, you find weapons, you defeat the demon, exit, and are free. You go up the hill to look out on your surroundings...and are promptly abducted by a giant crow and taken to where most of the game takes place. Throughout the rest of the game, you encounter many other undead. Most are just the mindless assailants you cut through, some are the mindless ones wallowing in despair, but a few are still clinging to the edge of sanity, having some purpose that keeps them going. As you play through the game, many of them go Hollow as they lose their purpose. But you press on, staying true to your goals, and reach the end of the game. Or give up playing it and, according to an interview with the game's writer, canonically go Hollow in the process of stopping playing the game. Throughout the game, first with the broad horror of the Undead Asylum and then with the more in depth experiences with Solaire, Seigmeyer, Griggs, Logan, Laurentius, Reah and her three disciples, and unnamed people like the Crestfallen Warrior, the game presents you with people who struggle in the face of adversity, lose one too many times, and give up. Simultaneously, you struggle against the game's legendary difficulty, forge ahead, and experience the joy of each and every triumph until you reach your goal at the end of the game. This combined adds up to the theme: *don't give up.* Life will throw challenges at you, and they may seem insurmountable. But time and again, you will find your way through, and in so doing, will experience the reward that can only be had through that sense of victory in the face of the impossible. NEVER give up. Stay true to yourself, and KEEP GOING. That's a lesson I very much needed at the time. It's entirely possible that playing this game literally saved my life. And there is no way any non-game adaptation of Dark Souls could have presented it half so well. (And indeed, many aspects of what make the game so daunting to players are part and parcel of what made it so impactful - the only things I'd change about the game are some aspects of how it communicates its mechanics (they are dense and not well explained within the context of the game) and the community around the game (specifically teaching the "Git good" crowd some manners and to respect that newcomers to the game are not, and should not expected to be, skilled enough to do low level challenge runs)
there's one idea i've yet to see anyone try when it comes to video game adaptations, and it would be a perfect fit for the TV format. Anthology stories. a lot of game worlds are so big, and expansive....fallout is great, but i would've equally loved to see a series of just...a dozen episodes of self-contained stories. maybe some of them tie together. maybe some get brought back up later on. but i think the best way to capture the sense of immersion in a world like that is to see it from different lenses than just one protagonist.
Absolutely. Honestly, that's what I thought Arcane would be before it came out. Runeterra (the world of League of Legends) is such an expansive world with so many different regions, cultures and stories, I expected them to lean more into that variety. Not that I'm complaining about what we got, Arcane is amazing as it is... but there is so much more potential in Runeterra, and the series really has only scratched the surface yet.
It's the skill ceiling for me. I suck at video games - unless they are the older number crunch style, or a fighter I can button mash. My brother used to help me, but as we are adults now and life happens that's not really an option. Can be frustrating for my children as I cannot keep up with them when they want me to play. And so many games have amazing story and lore, it is really frustrating to not be able to engage. So having a good show to be able to experience at least some of the story and gain a better understanding is awesome.
My partner is a HUGE gamer and we have to play children's games together cause I am just bad and even then he gets exasperated by my lack of skills sometimes (having to control the camera at the same time I control moving in 3D games is SUCH A PAIN IN MY ASS!!) or he ends up finding the games boring cause he has no challenges...
I think you just helped me realize why I felt so underwhelmed by the film version of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera. When I'm at a musical in a stage theater, it's such a powerful experience. I don't even know how to describe the feeling, except that it makes me feel really alive. And I didn't feel that magic when I saw the film. Right now my favorite musical is Hadestown. I don't think it would work as a movie either, but it would be really wonderful if they did a good recording of it on stage.
In defence of movie adaptations of video games one has to say, that for a long time there wasn't even the posibility of them being good thanks to Uwe Boll and his tax scemes. He didn't care about making good movies, he didn't care about video games, he just cared about the garatied audience and the tax write off. And after he stoped making video game adaptations, the damage was so deeply ingrained in how the general audience and the studios precive them thad they couldn't be more than a fast cash grab cow that you would milk sometimes. I would say that Detective Picatchu was the final link in the chain of movies that tried to break those prejudices that was good enough to do it and in returne gave the studios the confidence to finance more adabtations of video games be it as movies or as serieses.
An absolute dream adaptation for me would be one of the two Soul Reaver games. The writing and voice acting is already above and beyond the standard for TV Shows, so all they'd really need to do is cut away the time spent on Raziel finding his brethren and unlocking new powers and instead have the focus be on him uncovering the Elder God's manipulation.
God I appreciate your points about video game accessibility. The motion sickness thing happens to me too. I mostly like fantasy games. Dragon Age: Inquisition was the hardest for me to play. I suffered through it because I wanted it so bad, having to play in shorter sittings. Interestingly enough, Baldur's Gate 3 has not bothered my motion sickness at all. Maybe because it's more of an overhead perspective, and the scenery holds still unless you specifically want to rotate the camera, so it's not nearly so spinny. And the skill issue. Yes. I never managed to finish Neverwinter Nights 2. I tried so many times and was never able to get through that final battle. I was on the easiest setting. I really appreciate that more of the video games in the last few years seem to offer a much easier story mode, so it's an option and you can still experience the story even if your gameplay skills aren't spectacular.
16:00 the other thing with undertale is that the choices made, are hidden. Most people won’t even realise it’s a choice you could make until a second playthrough. The first playthrough (99% of the time) will be one of the many variations of a grey playthrough. You will kill some people, spare others, and right at the end will be told what you LV actually represents and you have to live with yourself. Only after you do that does the game inform you that there is a choice you can make. And it is nowhere near so compelling when you watch someone else go through it.
Way to make me feel ancient, Vera. I saw Star Wars in a cinema, when it reached the dollar cinema but before Empire came out, so it was just "Star Wars". I'll just stagger to the kitchen and make a cup of cocoa, hm?
Completely agree that Detective Pikachu is the best video game movie we have ever had - although I might be biased... For what it's worth, I did also like the Sonic movies despite having never played Sonic.
The reason detective pikachu works is you don’t have to know anything about Pokemon to enjoy it as the rules of the world are explained clearly but they aren’t explained in a way that is so repetitive that people who are familiar aren’t bored. I actually thought Tomb Raider in the 2000s did a decent job as well. It’s styled as an Indiana Jones clone and not a “video game movie.”
@carschmn Detective Pikachu is one of the few pokemon games I've never played, I agree the film does a good job with the whole 'you don't have to know anything about the game to watch this we'll fill in the gaps for you'.
Missing Arcane is quite an oversight given that Arcane season one is the greatest single season of television ever made - not animation, not game adaptation, all.
Yeah I realized that after this went up. Thats why there’s a pinned comment about that. But simply put, since it doesn’t share its name with the game, I’ve never played the game, and in fact I’ve never played a game in that genre, I literally keep forgetting it’s based on a game. But I think my points about Castlevania apply: source material that is heavy on lore and light on story.
Ha, I was about to say that Detective Pikachu's a pretty solid 7/10 - not so amazing I'll rave about it, but good enough that I enjoyed it and would be willing to watch it again. Agree on the Mario movie, too. Good video, I like that you touch on the idea that some things *could* work as movies instead of TV but work *better* in the long-form medium, whereas some things that *seem* like a layup miss the main reason they work, and some things just might not work in either movie or TV form because of essential elements. I also appreciate that look at the inability to enjoy some games due to aspects like motion sickness or even skill level. The latter is a reason I am a fan of the "Easy" option existing - it's nice to have an option for people who just want to experience a game and enjoy that, don't feel the need to slam their face against a wall to feel challenged. Also nice to see other barriers addressed, including just...expense, both in terms of monetary cost, but even time cost can be a problem.
accessibility argument- I'm a gen X whose been playing games since you could get Atari cartridges (2600) from the library. (my first two computers did not run MS-DOS)I got through the first Batman game. I very quickly get hung up on skill training in the later games. I love Remedy's Control. I have to use the aimbot and some other adjustments or my slower reactions hit a skill gate. I've tried the rebooted Laura Croft- I at least get past the training sets, but very quickly get overwhelmed. I'm no longer fast enough to handle the combat and cannot plug the time into the game to get it. Portal and its sequels are fun... until the tight time levels mean I have to optimize my movements to an absurd degree. My father (silent gen) flat refuses to play them anymore because of the timed levels. I'm getting very careful with platform games. I nearly quit Gris on the invisible levels.
21:45 I KNOW! Back when I was in school I got so fed up with teachers just handing us the text of Shakespeare and expecting us to engage with it as if that was enough to understand the full intent of the thing when we were still missing all the context those words were supposed to be part of. Just because they've spent years getting in the practice of teaching it so if that's become easier for them to understand it must be exactly the same for teenagers going through it the very first time. :-/ And the most baffling thing is that they would sometimes show us filmed versions of the plays but that only ever happened *after* the assignments were handed in. Honestly, I know it's not even the point here, but you have no idea how happy it makes me to hear somebody else actually say this. :)
I agree with you, but I still think some games could be better suited to movies like Portal 1 and 2, Soma, The Sims (a Barbie-type movie with social commentary about agency, etc). But yeah... most of the big-name game' worlds need time, or they will just be disposable fun or bad movies with convoluted narratives.
Thank you for the video, Vera! The big challenge of adapting video games in other mediums, such as TV series and movies, is losing the aspect of direct interaction. Even in the visual novel genre, the players are in control and can influence the games. Usually, that cannot happen in movies and TV series. As Vera explained, that interaction in games brings immersion (and, in some cases, losing is also part of it). And, at the same way, in games which are not heavily dependent in story, removing the direct interaction of the players will leave just barebone plots. That is why video game adaptations will try to fill gaps in stories, and, while keeping some core ideas, they must differentiate themselves of the original works in order to justify their existence by bringing something new, and make people experiencing the adaptations to care for them.
I laughed out loud when you called Detective Pikachu "the epitome of a 7 out of 10". I know you did not mean that as an insult, but damn! It still felt like a nasty burn.
@@Jedi_Spartan is it really that hard to believe someone’s not a gamer? My parents weren’t early adopters of tech so we didn’t have cable or video games until I was in 10th grade (we did have broadcast tv and dsl). I had 3 younger siblings who monopolized both once we did have it. So I just never got into gaming. If you’re asking about how I liked the show, I turned it on, watched it, and enjoyed it.
@@carschmn I was referring to how you enjoyed it because - even if I didn't have a preexisting knowledge of Halo - the show just seemed terrible and like it couldn't decide what it wanted to be.
I feel like D&D is perfect for a series. Sessions are already thought of as episodes and an arc of a campaign is a season. Then, the diversity in styles and characters, and players can be captured in sort of the same manner as the Unprepared Casters podcast. Each season is in the same world but is a completely self contained story. Each season has different actors, characters, or even genres. Then you'd have little easter eggs to prior seasons that show a broader connected world. Holiday episodes could be special oneshots that bring different parties together. Each season would be written by a different writer with input from the actors; maybe two alternating showrunners. It's ambitious but I think it could work.
I totally see that working if someone creative and ready to take risks does it! It could be so good in the right hands. Personally, I was so let down by the Dungeons and Dragons movie that I’m aching for someone to do something really good with the premise, since I really like D&D but I haven’t had the chance to play it that much
This came up on Yakuza/Like a Dragon Twitter in the last few days as someone said they got into the series from watching streamers play the games. The person got a dumb negative comment about it. But most people I've seen in the actual fandom have been hey that is a totally fair way to get into the series, not everyone has money for (insert games, consoles, computers, etc), and is totally valid. Let people enjoy things. Also, while there is a Yakuza movie it isn't very good (though it is fun to watch) I'd totally watch a series based off the games.
There will be a Video Game movie on an indie game coming this year that I am hyped for: Iron Lung!!! It's a Horror Video Game, made with the Creator of the Game, which the game came out in 2022...And produced, *and most things else* by a TH-camr: Mark Edward Fischbach or if anyone been around for 12 Years on TH-camr his name is Markiplier!!! He kind off has done "Movies or Shows" in the past because his Projects feel like it, that's why I put it in quotes!!! But seriously Mark is keeping everything Hush, Hush. But man he does stuff reallly great for some who does have ADHD!!! I would recommend anyone watching, In Space with Markiplier as a start. It's a Choose Your Own Adventure Game with You the Player as The Captain and you have to Navigate your way through it!!!! I would love to say more, but I don't wanna Spoil this Experience!!!
The accessibility thing is 100%. I love video games. I suck at video games. I have never finished a game, despite starting SO MANY. And I'll go back, and restart a dozen times, and always get as far as I can, and just GET STUCK cuz I can't fight fast enough, or jump accurately enough, or whatever (my new workthrough is getting my brother to get me through the hard parts after I try a dozen times so I can proceed with the story).
RE: Adaptations - Like Hamilton, one of (in my opinion) the best adaptations that was faithful to the source was "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead". On the other hand an adaptation that heavily adjusted the material and was not "faithful", but was still good (possibly better than the source), was "Nimona". As far as video games, I agree with all of your points even though I actually still like the 1993 version of Super Mario Bros.
Cyberpunk Edgerunners is based on a videogame too (that is itself based is based on a tabletop rpg) and is also a show that follows the lore without adapting a specific story.
Love these points, esp with games having a barrier to entry (motor/muscle functions issues). I like that point. I had my husband play Alice; The Madness Returns which is an awesome game, but a game both skill & motor/muscle barriers to watch him play. Almost forgot, the vertigo, not sure why, but damn, that game unlike any other, had vertigo super bad, eyes & brain couldn't understand it was a screen kind of thing and my life/body was not in any sort of danger to feel that nauseous (not seen it since in any other medium/media). The interactive element; well, since I can interact with him while he played. Also thinking THAT would be a game for adaptation, esp THAT particular iteration(a retelling/perspective shift of Alice in Wonderland books). The story itself is what kept us both going, it was indeed that good.
I’m a person who gets headaches from video games and TERRIBLY nauseous from reading graphic novels and comics. So seeing (great) adaptions of those things is definitely a plus.
14:04 I haven't played it, but the only way I think Hades might be able to work (based on your description) would be something like "Heaven Sent" in Capaldi's run, where the focus is on the playable character (and yes, acting and casting would not be something you could just gloss over) and you would not have to adapt the story, but you would have to adapt a feeling of hopelessness. And yes, it would be a massive gamble. It has a very high chance of flopping. But it could also be amazing if it somehow got done right. I also think that would have to be at least a season with the actual gameplay being an episode, maybe a two-parter, potentially, depending on the showrunner/studio's willingness not to skip over everything, a three-parter, with the rest being more setup/context/motivation to give the "let's do this again" a bit more stick and impact. Would I take that on? No. I'm not that good of a writer and I don't have the bandwidth to build all that out. There's also so many ways you could do it that even attempting to make a show like that would be an achievement in pre-production. My AuDHD would be all over the place trying to find out where to start, let alone anything besides "hopelessness but somehow, there's a tiny glimmer of hope that keeps yo going" that I would have to make an entire episode about "what if [character] didn't die" and make that an entire bottle episode JUST TO EXPLORE THAT POSSIBILITY. (Side note, I'm deep into Big Finish stuff, so I cannot type Zagreus with a straight face. Too many memes in the group chat.) It would stop becoming a narrative and start becoming an anthology. And that might just be "Heaven Sent" (and if we're including setup, "Face the Raven") is the best two-part accidental adaptation of the game Hades that we're ever going to get. Edit: Did not expect to write a mini essay in the comments.
yk i was kinda shocked that there wasn't any talks of making a dragon age show (not something necessary based on the games or books could had been also something new) like 2 years ago when all the streaming platforms were having thier fantasy show to capture that GoT audience
I think Silent Hill was a legitimately good movie. It's even listed as my favourite on Letterbox'd. But I definitely think that the best option for adaptation is to make your own story while adapting the vibe and using the lore.
Arcane is def one of the best videogame shows I've never seen. Probably up there with last of us in my love for it. And the animation is gorgeous. The witcher too technically is vased on a game if also a book.
What really helps make The Last of Us show fantastic is good casting. The actors of Hilda and the Mandalorian are amazing in a father daughter duo role.
One funny thing is a lot of the Usual Suspects complained about how Ellie didn't look exactly like in the game - but anyone who actually _knows_ the game knows she looks a lot like young Ashley Jenkins, who voice-acted Ellie through the games. 😁
@@snorpenbass4196 It's a dumb nitpick that never ruined any adaptation. Before I watched Game of Thrones, Tyrion not losing his nose screamed stupid nitpick and it’s still a stupid nitpick after watching Game of Thrones that was never reason the show ended badly. Bella Ramsey can sing and play the guitar and that moment from The Last of Us part 2 is going to be amazing.
I agree! Video game movies *can* be hit or miss! As someone who not only enjoyed the Mario Movie but was actively anticipating it, I'll admit I was quite pleased! The character design and voice acting were all incredible despite the many memes surrounding Chris Pratt voicing Mario. However, I do wish that more of the music from the games was incorporated into the soundtrack. Instead, the film's soundtrack was mostly made up of generic license music, which was kind of a letdown. The Sonic movies have this problem as well, unfortunately. Which is especially disappointing because Sonic the Hedgehog is a franchise that is widely known for its incredible music, even if some of the games themselves happen to be mid. Arcane and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners excel in their soundtracks because they are composed of mostly all original music. "Enemy", the main theme of Arcane, was an instant hit with Imagine Dragons fans and mainstream musicphiles alike. It took me a bit to appreciate JID's part in the song because his verse felt out of place at first, but when I realized he was rapping about Jinx's struggles, I could get behind it! Edgerunners had a couple of preexisting songs: one was "I Really Wanna Stay At Your House" from the actual game, the other was "This Ffire" by Franz Ferdinand, which became the main theme. But even if the main theme of Edgerunners wasn't a song from the game *or* a song that was written for the show, it still worked because 1) It was a very obscure song and not generic licensed music and 2) It fit the theme of the anime perfectly! Sorry for the long ramble about how video game adaptations handle music. I could talk about many other factors when it comes to adapting games, but then this comment would turn into an essay lol 😂 Here are my (other) honorable mentions for video game adapted series: The Cuphead Show, The Super Mario Super Show, Sonic Boom, and Sonic Prime!
i missed the twitter thread/poll, but i reckon a game series that could excel as a tv show would be the Legacy of Kain franchise. more commonly known as Blood Omen and Soul Reaver. incredible narrative. expansive world. great characters. sadly, the last game was in 2005. and the series has languished in IP hell on a cliffhanger ending since then.
A great example of a video game series that would be great for a multi-season tv series would be Like a Dragon. If in a film, then the funny sidequests. like the band one in Yakuza 0 or the go kart one in Like a Dragon, that contrast to the serious main story and make the games stand out would be cut for time because of how they deviate from the main plot. In a tv series, these could be given their own episode. By ommitting most of these subplots, a film version would fail to create the almost cartoony world of Like a Dragon, creating a crime drama with maybe some comedy. The series version, however could give these excursions their own episodes, to create an absurd crime-comedy with dramatic moments that would make emotional moments with Kiryu hit harder after seeing him belt his heart out in karaoke or join a band.
Half-Life would transition amazingly well to an adventure serial. It's already episodic in structure with a few underlying plot threads. Most have an action set piece, some environmental storytelling, some character interactions to fill out. "Last time on half-life gordon freeman was running late, but so were some of his coworkers ... shot of freeman yelling sucker at barney from the tram ... before incinerating a colleagues breakfast and ushering in the green apocalypse"
I would add in the Arcane, Cyber Punk, Dota: Dragon's Blood, Dragon Age, and Dragon's Dogma series to this list. As far as Hades killing the protagonist over and over, there is a anime that does this called RE:Zero, and it is done very well since you feel the horror and despair of him resetting again and again. I bet you could do it very well with instead of horror, focusing on the exhaustion, frustration, and determination that Zagreus would feel.
I wish I had the attention span to finish any of this series :( I managed to finish Arcane I don’t know how, but otherwise I start a lot and don’t finish any 😭 In fact, I started Castlevania, maybe I even managed to finish the 1st season? I don’t even remember :( Funnily enough, I don’t have problems with finishing books because I listen to music while doing so, and my brain interprets it as doing multiple things at the same time and so it’s happy with that xD Tbh, I’d love a series about Hollow Knight (animated ofc), but I don’t know if it’d translate well from game to series 😅 Same happens with some mangas when they try to adapt them into animes, some doesn’t translate well to the animated form and it just doesn’t work. Undertale I can see it being adapted since in the Fallout games you also have to make choices (from what I know, because I’ve never played them. I saw gameplays tho), so maybe there’s a way of doing it, but it’d have to be done by someone really creative and able to make it work
I would throw Cyberpunk Edgerunners onto that list as well. That show was singularly responsible for Cyberpunk getting its second wind and making people actually care for when Phantom Liberty came out. More players were playing the game after Edgerunners came out than when the game initially dropped, even tho it was one of the most anticipated games at the time. Because the show showed just how engaging the particular flavor of cyberpunk 2077 offered could be. The odd mix of expected cyberpunk aesthetics but mixed with an American southwest vibe, mixed with the liberal use of the lingo from the game, on top of having an engaging and endearing cast of characters and a supreme sense of style.
Anime has grappelled with the concept of the loopiness in visual novels. While Haruhi's Endless Eight is an art desaster, Re:Zero has impressively captured the idea. So no, the loopiness of Hades can be translated to a static medium. It just needs a little more than a montage. (Haruhi is so meta about it's time, may not land as well today. Watching in release order and bailing the endless eight, once you get it, to save yourself the suffering, is required. Re:Zero has a strong opener and then takes a whale shaped nose dive). Also the setup of groundhog day is a visual novel. The 'first' or 'neutral' run, where you kill based on inital naivite or a moral compass is central to Undertale. While only the two others survive the grinder of memeification, the contrast and the 4th wall breaking interactions created from chaining runs of all 3 types is what truely elevates Undertale. The pre-reboot Tomb Raider was trashy fun. Insert random T-Rex here.
On the subject of things that are hard to adapt because of their medium, House of Leaves is a book that's basically impossible to adapt because it's *extremely* tied to *being* a novel.
Video games for the most part definitely work better as shows. And with how popular a franchise Star Wars is, I can’t see why Star Fox doesn’t get the same treatment as a Clone Wars style tv show. But for now, there’s an independent content creator on YT who created a web series called A Fox In Space. If you’re a fan of Star Fox or Animated Adult Swim shows, I’d highly recommend it. It shows potential for what Nintendo is missing out on, of course.
Speaking to accessibility, there are so many games that have visual and auditory cues that are wholly inaccessible to the Blind and Deaf communities. There are whole markets of people who either simply cannot or can with extreme difficulty play these games games. Further, the argument companies make is that accessibility is too expensive. Well, there are smaller indy gaming companies who build accessibility in from the ground up and don't lose money for being accessible. Plan for accessibility from the start and everybody wins. Fail to do so and it's game over for disabled gamers. Ahh, but I forgot, we live in a society that doesn't care about disabled people. It doesn't see us as people.
Spot on. Although I'd also love to see a video game adapted into a pre-planned trilogy, a la Lord of the Rings. Difficult to pull off - but heaven if it works.
How long before we get a Lucasarts movie/series? Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Sam & Max or The Dig seem obvious, but I would be interested in a Loom adaptation (intriguing world with little story, so plenty of opportunities).
Same here! A game I forgot to mention in the Twitter question was King's Quest! I'd be VERY interested in seeing how someone adapts that into a movie/show :)
I think I probably agree on Undertale. I'm less familiar with Hades. The closest I can get are two kind of format snarls. For Hades it would probably be to structure it similar to a timeloop show. Leave it up in the air whether this episode is going to end with a jump back to the beginning or more progress and play that for somewhat unconventional tension. I seem to remember a piece of hypertext fiction I read doing that, where it used the seeming similarity to the last time you saw it to lull you into a false sense of security, then had things slowly change around you. Undertale, I can think of two ways. The easiest one is to take advantage of the 'automatic advert' on some platforms to insert multiple endings as a separate track that the episode jumps to at random. I've seen podcasts do this once or twice. I imagine you could do something like this, though it would probably be unbearably complicated and not worth it. The other (which I think mirrors the choice based character of undertale) is to just make two separate shows with similar titles and run them in competing shots. Give them very different tones, but the sam characters. Now the audience is forced to choose which story they want to follow, or whether they actively go back to catch up on the one they missed, alternate, etc. It kind of draws the viewer into considering the interaction they have in choosing to watch something, by making their choice directly part of the story. It's stupid and infeasible, but it's doing a similar meta thing.
I would argue that the biggest argument for TV shows being better than movie at adaptations is a lack of oversight. With a movie the studio is always going to have their idea of what it should look like, with the TV show the actual producers and writers have more control
Pro-shots are a legal nightmare these days and expensive to make. I'm all for the idea of doing more of them but we are going to have to make them easier to make.
I'd also point to Digimon as undisputably good, since I absolutely count tamagotchi-like devices as video games and at _least_ Adventure and Tamers are indisputably good (of the initial four Digimon Shows Adventure 02 had some production issues midway through which caused it to sag in the middle, and Frontier is... Divisive...) - I'd also tentatively throw in the more recent Ghost Game (though that went to Crunchy Roll premium halfway through so I haven't finished watching it) I usually roll my eyes when people start talking about immersion, but you seem to be using it in a more... Useful... way than how video game marketing tends to use it (which as far as I can tell 99% of the time means "We spent a lot of money on photo-realistic graphics") giving me an almost Pavlovian response to the word. But, yeah. The ability to just... Decide to linger in an area of a game, hang out in a hub world, sit and watch a sunset because it's pretty is a form of engagement with a video game - whether we call it immersion or something else - that cannot be replicated in other media, because that's always player directed in a game, while in another medium it's because the production team or author chose to slow the pacing down at that point. The closest I've seen to that Roguelike feel in non-video game media would be either TNG's Cause and Effect or Game Changer's Deja Vu. Neither of these are intended as adaptations of video games. (Well, Cause and Effect definitely isn't. I'm not really sure what the influences are on Deja Vu that led to it being... Eldritch comedy? I think I'd describe that episode as an Eldritch comedy?) - It's not just the time loop, it's also the gradual figuring out of what's going on and gaining of competence - and eventually mastery - within the situation going on within that time loop that provides it, while most time loops go the Groundhog day approach of 'exploring the possibility space with no consequences and eventually learning something from the experience.' (And there's a stage adaptation of Undertale. It's a musical. 4 hours, it's on youtube somewhere, I keep meaning to find time to watch it because while I agree with you about Undertale being unadaptable, I am _fascinated_ to see a 4 hour stage musical attempt at doing so.) Filming stage shows - particularly musicals - absolutely used to happen more than it does now. They then used to be released onto VHS and also got television airings. I _think_ the general theory is they stopped doing those because Broadway and the West End started to get paranoid that they were reducing demand for going to the stage shows (I also _think_ it was around the same time as a ticket price hike outside of indie theatres that they cut down on them significantly)
Excellent video. I can understand your points, to be immersed in that world is important just as a good story is too. I love Castlevania so so good! I also enjoy Detective Pikachu and Sonic as some of my favorite games films. I will admit Assassins Creed is my guilty pleasure I know it's not good, but I enjoy it.
I think Sandbox and expansive RPGs would suffer from show and especially movie adaption. While this will always be true for most games to some extent, when the core experience of a game is crafting your own unique story, it cannot be adapted into a linear story. I think Hades can be adapted into TV well. It tells a linear family drama with the Greek pantheon. Some things would need to change like father and son reconciling after the 1st successful escape attempt.
I agree the key factor is Immersiveness, but we can#t ignore HOW the adaptations achieve that. I'd argue that it could be done with a movie, if the filmakers had something the shows you mentioned have in spades: Restraint. With mvie adaptations, the film makers try to throw everything they can from the game into that one movie, and ot's a jumbled mess that only people who really appreciate the core material can still enjoy. Wit a TV show, they have more time, and know they have to fill that time, so they can include all the ame things but spread things out more- but that can be done with a movie, I thin. You won't get the full experiencve, you only see part of the setting or story, but it could be immersive if they did't try to include everything. It certainly helps if they know they are certainly going to get multiple movies (like they did with LotR) to spread things out.
Motion sickness and mild photo sensitivity keeps a lot of games out of my reach. I knew a bit about the fallout world going into the show because I throw on deep dive videos on games I've never played while I do other stuff. and it is also something that has gotten worse as I've gotten older. Which means stories like the last of us and fallout were never on the cards for me to be able to experience. I can't even play some of the old platformers I used to love as a kid anymore. But I'd love to see silent hill 2 adapted for tv, I think it could work really well. because an 8 to 10 episode show will allow you to really soak in the atmosphere of the foggy town and slow burn some of the reveals
The best video game adaptation is lowkey L.A. Confidential, which is basically a movie version of L.A. Noire. Yeah, I know there was something like 20 years between them, but shut up. Btw, I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments about adaptation. The whole point of an adaptation is to tell a story from a new medium and new perspective. One of my favourite films is The Hunt For Red October and the novel is also fantastic. That being said, the film removes a lot of the baggier elements of the novel, including various character’s backstories (importantly, the film puts more emphasis on Ryan and Ramius than the novel). It’s actually one of the few films which I’d argue is better than the novel. The Shining is also a good example. A film which takes the concept of a novel, and then goes off into its own direction.
Game adaptations into movies feels like a cash grab. It doesn't feel like the people making them care about the games at all. Arcade, Last of US, Castlevania, and Fallout feel like love letters to the original material.
I get motion sickness too whilst playing certain games, sucks. Also, my wrist sometimes plays up if I have to mash buttons a lot. So, I watch let's plays of games I want to see the story of. Also, I watch horror games instead of playing them, cause I'm a massive wuss.
This is my second "plug" for Pim's Crypt. Pim does awesome content about horror, mostly video games. I think their essays I'm actually given me a better experience on certain games that I desperately wish I could play then watching a "Let's Play" in many instances especially if part of a franchise, lore heavy, (or more interestingly) "external" lore - inspiration, Easter eggs, ambiance etcetera that the developmental team included that enriches the experience once you're aware but could be overlooked easily by somebody simply playing through.
An accessibility issue that I feel you missed, beyond any physical, psychological, or financial limitations, one of the biggest barriers has to be time. I'd argue that to truly enjoy Fallout 4, you need to dedicate at least 40-50 hours to it, to really explore the world, discover the secrets of the world, appreciate the nuance of the world (sure, you could skip every side quest and get through the main storyline in about the same amount of time as the Fallout TV show, but you miss out on like 95% of the experience of playing Fallout 4). I know a lot of people with several hundred hours in the game. Lot's of games require these massive numbers of hours to properly enjoy and having that much time available, that you aren't having to work, aren't having to take care of the upkeep of your home, aren't having to take care of children, is truly a luxury.
I do think for the 90’s super Mario bro. and darkstalkers were good not saying sure Mario bros was perfect but not as bad as people want to make it out to be cause I saw it when it was originally released in 1993 and really enjoyed it I do think it was a good call make the world more like a business type world instead of an actual kingdom like the games especially if your not going to make the Koopas look reptilian for the most part making bowser an corrupt businessman works and for someone who likes magical items in movies and television having a piece of meteorite princess peach had that the Mario brother get a hold of be like a magical item to unlock the power of the meteor works and made princess peach look more like she could handle herself more then in the games where she essentially was a damsel in distress type character
I think the Undertale issue applies very widely. Take even Fallout itself: they chose to tell an original story, and that means it's not running into any issues of canon deviation. It's not trying to retell a story where the player used to have real input, like they often do in RPGs. I would also add another kind of video game story that wouldn't work in a TV context: a story that lies to the player, like Nier or Fire Emblem Three Houses. Getting to ending A in both Nier games involves being lied to, and those lies are exposed on a route B replay. In video games, this works because New Game Plus is a known way of engagement, but there's no New Game Plus in static media. As any poor soul who watched Endless Eight can tell you, attempts to do this can be extremely bad for the show.
Because I never got into that series or even that genre of game I literally keep forgetting it’s based on a game. But I think what I said about Castlevania pretty much applies (more lore than plot).
this got me thinking, what about watching other people play? isn't that closer to playing the game than watching an adaptation? like the examples mentioned with watching a filmed version of a play instead of a movie adaptation
20:53 I don't think the 'bringing new audiences' arguement is made for people with accessibility issues, for the most part (although it does make more of sense). I think that what they are trying to argue is that even a crappy movie/ tv show/ whatever will intrigue people enough to try out the original game. That's what they mean by 'bringing in new audiences'. The negative discourse around crappy adaptations alone is enough to make people think 'well if the original is that much better maybe I'll try it out' 🤷🏽♀️ I've seen it happen, and it has happened to me several times (but not with video games so much, mostly book adaptations) Time is an accessibility barrier to playing these games too. A lot of people don't have the time to sink hundreds of hours of gameplay into one game (especially if you are like me and get agitated by the thought of leaving any quests uncompleted) Yeah. Borderlands is my favourite game franchise of all time. It's what got me back into gaming. The movie looks.. 🤣🤣 well I'll go see it for the laughs. Imagine a Borderlands anime though!
imo this was one of the problems with the Warcraft movie too, that game franchise has massive amounts of lore and even with changes made to simplify things in the film, for ppl unfamiliar with Warcraft i can see how it still could have been overwhelming, whereas a tv show would have allowed a new audience time to orient themselves. it had other issues ofc, as do the games, but as one of the rare Warcraft movie enjoyers i am a bit sad that there probably won't be another attempt at adapting that universe anytime soon (tho also blizzard are awful so im not *too* sad, heh) i havent seen many other shows based on games but i think both Fallout & Twisted Metal went about things in a smart way for adapting games that aren't as narratively fixed as The Last of Us, having a central "player character" with their own new personal story, operating within the wider world of the game. the context is shared, there's overlap in elements, there are fun nods for the pre-existing fans, but it still works well as a standalone. this might have been a better approach for Warcraft rather than trying to directly adapt a major event in the lore tbh. like..a good movie *can* do this, but yeah, way more room can be given to the worldbuilding, tone, and characters when they don't have to jam it all into 2hrs. they can afford to goof around more, have more subplots, explore more, and let ppl absorb it all at a less breakneck pace - just as with gaming you *can* speedrun something, but a lot of ppl enjoy going slower, spending time just messing around in a different world, and value that as much as (or even more than) finishing the story or hitting max lvl.
I sort of agree, but what is your take on plays that have been adapted from books. I have recently read both the book and play of The curious incident of a dog in the night time, and I feel that this would have worked better as a film, as for the main character there are some visual stimuli in the book that would be very difficult to achieve on stage. In the play they replace this with more audio stimuli that don’t quite do the book justice. This may be a unique example though.
I'm actually not sure I agree, because devoid of the interactive elements it'd be a slightly above average ghost movie. Kind of like how Uncharted is pretty mid if you're not the one in control of it.
While I get your dislike of the binging model, have you seen what Netflix have done with brigerton?! Half a season and then over a whole month for the second half. I would definitely argue that is a whole lot worse! I wouldn’t remember what happened in the first half after that long 😂
For context, a book that sells 25k copies is a hit. Entertainment television is expected to have more like 2M viewers, even for an average show. If you're a storyteller whose only objective is to deliver your story to the most minds as you can, a television adaptation is the only way to go
If your only objective is the most eyes on your work as possible over say “what’s the form most fitting for this story” then you’ve already lost the plot artistically.
I'm sorry but I'm just not with you on this one. My opinions on things often line up pretty well with yours but Wicked is a great example. It was a very successful book first. The musical only happened because of it's very devoted book fans. My feeling is that you really have to understand that the things people get from a format are different inherently but that can and has complemented very different stories. I loved the book and will always stand by my feeling that the musical wasn't as good, but my sister loves that version. I loved the Last of Us game, but what I got from the show was very different and I feel in some ways better. The show was able to expand the focus on characters to more than just the central plot, and gave us the best episode that was a bit of lore in the game more than a sidestory. Depending on the type of gamer the original lore might not have even been a thing they fully put together. The point to me about adaptation has always been showing us why the story should be told a different way. Don't give me a one for one experience because it won't translate. Give me the soul that you found vital in your adaptation. It might not be what I loved so much, but it gives me a new perspective on the story or characters. Maybe I'll still like the original better, but maybe someone else will love it when they wouldn't have loved the original. We've been telling and retelling stories in different ways for millenia because it builds. Our concept of King Arthur is French fanfiction of anglo saxon myth/lore. Shakespeare is a spin on most other stories of his fellow playwrights. Sherlock Holmes has been adapted more than almost any other property and my favorite version is cartoon mice. Every disney movie is an adaptation of a children's tale or myths. Video games are just the newest format and so have to figure out the benefits of adapting or pitfalls. Personally I thought the most recent sucess in adapting something that most feel can't be adapted was the Dungeons and Dragons movie last year. It focused on the disparate characters having to grow and work together just like a real group of players have to do. It brought the flavor without devolving into the nitty gritty that held up so many other attempts. My sister will never ever play D&D, but she loved that movie without knowing the first thing about table top gaming. She enjoyed the weird creatures and magic that she got no explanation for, but she especially loved the story of a bunch of weirdos with different goals coming together and becoming heroes to themselves and everyone else. That was the soul they adapted. Video games have adapted other formats stories many times, but it'll take some time before we figure out how to do the reverse and I think we're beginning to see the successes really take off. I also put a lot more weight into adaptations giving new people a chance to experience a story. I have always loved video games, but my sister can't enjoy them. She has her reasons that no one really has a right too, but she can't enjoy the worlds that I know she would like the stories and lore for if she had access. Now she understands why I loved the Last of Us so much. She didn't enjoy Fallout as much but she didn't hate the show. I think she'll continue watching it if we get more. Not everyone has access to video games. Adaptation leys them get a peek of these things. Maybe not everything gets an adaptation, but we've always found new ways to retell great stories and I think much of that is fundamental to humanity. Some stories will get more attention and might endure longer than others, but all stories should get adapted by the people who love them.
oh lordy....i hated when we had to "READ" a shakespear play in english class in High School....it turned me off from wants to EVER see a shakespear play or movie....the only movie i ever saw was the Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo Di Carprio and even that was poop and yes i know it was an attempt to modernize it.....but i have never watch a shakespear play or movie...not even West Side Story.....all because we were FORCED to read the scripts of the plays...Shakespear's plays were mean to be WATCHED with real, living actors putting their emotions and movement into the performance to bring it to life......a more currect play that been out for a decade now...i haven't seen, but can you imagine trying to read the script for Hamilton.....i don't think it would be as popular today as it is if you had to read the script before seeing the play performend on stage
Loyalty to original plots is not particularly important and can be a hindrance to good story telling, especially in tandem with other practical and financial limitations. Loyalty to the source setting/lore and _narrative themes_ is crucial. When you drop those, you're just trying to steal an audience with false promises. It depends somewhat on the subject, but loyalty to the personality traits and mental mechanisms that define characters tend to be pretty important too - especially in longer form properties that focus on character development. When you see people get utterly pissed off about an adaptation (and it's not just anti-wokism), it's because the adaptation was tone-deaf to the narrative themes explored by the original work and thus completely misrepresenting it. Imagine if Fallout had gone full adult horror, like Game of Thrones with nukes, or told some kind of G-rated savior tale. Or consider anything and everything Wheel of Time did. I don't think a single soul involved in that had a clue about its most basic, underlying theme of interaction between power dynamics and the gender divide, let alone who any of the characters actually were. When people complain about plot changes, it's often because those changes _also_ violate the narrative theme or redefine a character. The original work was often as good as it was thanks to the author being respectful toward their own characters, carefully preserving a coherent personality. They can get it wrong, but it's very rare for an adaptation to actually understand the characters _better._ There aren't many properties that are genuinely good from a story telling perspective and _not_ centered around specific, well-defined people. Stories are told about people, and its with people that people connect. (I'll pause while your minds finish asploding at that shocking reveal.) But the ones that are, come from video games with their reliance on game mechanics and immersion as primary narrative vehicles. You'd be hard pressed to find another medium that even allows let alone often requiring an anonymous main character. Video games ought to be one of the easiest things to adapt to movies or shows, given their predilection to just give you a setting and let you bring your own characters (actual story). But you articulated well something that was only subconsciously in the back of my mind. If the setting/immersion _is_ the game, then the only medium that can work is the one that reproduces _that._ The audience must have the space to steep in vicariously through the long-form experiences of the main characters.
I kind of disagree with your take on the Wicked movie. I've seen the show twice live, listened to the original Broadway soundtrack more times than I can count, read the book, and "Dancing Through Life" was even one of my college audition songs. I still see value in the movie adaptation. It will be a fundamentally different form of art from the stage show and I have loved the look of the two trailers we've gotten so far. Adapting the musical to the screen allows them to do things that simply can't be done on a live stage and some people will just never want to watch a staged musical, recorded Hamilton-style or live. The two can coexist without either being inherently worse than the other. The only thing I really hate that they're doing with the movie is splitting it in two. If they were doing a faithful adaptation of the book, I might see a need to split it in two but not the musical. That's just wholly unnecessary. It should also be pointed out that calling the stage show an adaptation of a book isn't the whole truth. It's an adaptation of a book that is itself a spinoff of another book series that has multiple other previous film adaptations and spinoffs. The musical is also an adaptation of the book in pretty much the loosest sense possible and I think that's kind of key to viewing the movie adaptation. The movie and the stage show share the same foundation but will be, at their core, completely different works of art just like how the stage show and the book share the same foundation but are completely different works of art.
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Oh my gods, I forgot to talk about Arcane! (I honestly forget it’s based on a video game because I never got into League of Legends or indeed any game in the MOBA genre.) Thankfully my points about Castlevania pretty much match Arcane as well (game has almost no plot and a ton of lore).
You said that a TV show where you watch the same story but with slight differences each time, and the players die over and over again would be boring.
You're describing the 80s British tv show Knightmare, and that was AMAZING!!!
@@Stephen_The_Waxing_Lyricist Yeah, but that's a gameshow. And different players each time so it wasn't really the same 'dieing over and over' experience any more than watching a season of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire or £1,000,000 money drop live is. And was more varied in what it presented to the contestants than you might assume IIRC a rewatch of it recently (aside Level 1 in S4 due to the focus on acquiring the eye shield as a mini-objective within that level that season. I may have done a complete rewatch within the past decade.)
And, admittedly, I did also cite a gameshow as one of my two examples in a post - The Deja Vu episode of Game Changer. Because for me it's the same people repeating the same events and gaining competence (and possibly unlocking new abilities) from loop to loop that captures the roguelike experience (One that comes _close_ that I've since thought of would be... Time Loop of the Daleks, forget the name of the episode... the reason that falls down is that the Daleks and the Heroes are both learning from their repetition, so that comes across less like a roguelike and more like series play in a board game where each side is adapting their strategy based on what the other is doing)
I've not watched it, but a lot of people rate the Twisted Metal adaptation highly too!
I was about to comment that leaving out Arcane in the amazing tv adaptation list is criminal neglect but you saw what you did
I've always been very vocal about the fact I think the only Wicked movie that would be worth making is an animated one. Because then you're replacing the spectacle of seeing these special effects performed live on stage with creative freedom animators have to create visuals that would never be possible in live-action.
Thank you for touching on the “minimum barrier entry” for video games! I’m autistic, and part of that for me is that I don’t have the best motor skills. Not that impede my ability to move in general, but to the point where making coordinated movements (especially with my fingers) is *sooo* exhausting. I struggle immensely with typing on keyboards, playing instruments, and yes, playing video games. Everytime I’ve told people “oh, I can’t play video games”, they usually just assume that I’m not as skilled or something, but no. I genuinely. CANNOT. Play video games. It takes all of my energy to try and coordinate my finger movements, and at that point, I don’t even consider myself “playing the game”. I can’t immerse myself in the experience, the characters, the *worldbuilding* (my personal favorite), or just the overall “plot” because I have to 100% focus on the controls. And that’s not enjoyable at all. Watching adaptations of these stories is my way of engaging with the game, and I’m so grateful that these shows exist to help me explore a world I never would’ve gotten to otherwise.
Edit: sorry for the wall of text y’all
So what you're saying is... they should make _stage plays_ based on video games!
Well there is a Kabuki play of Final Fantasy X
I completely agree about the accessibility of games turned into tv series. I am awful at games like that, but I enjoy the lore and the worldbuilding in them. I've had to watch my husband or my teenage kids play these games so that I can see how they end, some of which even have multiple endings. It was nice to finally get to sit down in front of the tv and experience 'Fallout' on the same level with my family this time.
We would certainly be on board if Bioshock got the same treatment!
I was 10 when I first saw Star Wars in 1977 and you are exactly right. From that opening scene with the Star Destroyer (we didn’t know it was called that) filling the frame, we were immersed in that galaxy. I still get chills thinking about it.
"Photosensitivities of any kind" is an excellent phrase. I am not photosensitive in the medical sense - I do not have epilepsy, I have never had a seizure, etc. But I do find the sort of intense flickering light that many games go with to be unpleasant in a visceral way that is hard to properly express. In most gaming experiences that offer photosensitive-safe options for those who have epilepsy, I will use them (much like how I will usually turn on subtitles despite not being hard of hearing). I don't need it, and if the anti-flicker option is too underwhelming like in Subnautica, I will turn it back to flickery mode, but...yeah, there's all sorts of ways that people can be sensitive to light beyond just the one that has significant medical implications.
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I also greatly appreciate that certain games cannot be adapted well, like Undertale. My best experience there is Dark Souls. That is a game with a deep and complex lore that can be adapted in myriad ways (and a dedicated and extremely prolific community of video essayists who do so), a pretty simple story that can be summarized in a paragraph and could probably be presented in a movie without issue...and the core theme that I took away from the game cannot be properly conveyed by ANY of that.
This takes a bit of sharing. I played Dark Souls at a point in my life where I was living with my parents with a bachelor's degree and no career, very few friends, and no prospects for that situation to change meaningfully. I wasn't quite at the point of considering *ending* that life, but...I was somewhere along the path toward that sort of thing. So yes, I played the game with a reputation for being brutally, oppressively difficult. I'm not sure why. In Dark Souls, for those who don't know, a core mechanic is that your character, and most other characters you encounter, have the "Undead curse" - when they die, they eventually recover. All cultures in this world respond to this effect in different ways - the place we are from takes them to the "undead asylum" - a broken down dungeon of a place where they are locked in cells and slowly go mad. The game opens with you sitting in despair, nothing having changed for who knows how long, and then someone drops a corpse bearing a key into your cell. That key opens the door, and allows you to explore. You see dozens of undead in this asylum, all gripped by a madness that in the lore is called being "Hollow" (which describes both their physical state, which your character shares, and their mental state, which your character does not yet share.) Some wallow in despair, some beat their heads against the wall, some lash out and attack you. (But not each other. It's a game, they're enemies, that's how this works). And presumably, by presenting you in a prison, you seek escape. You encounter a terrible demon guarding the exit, you explore further, you encounter your mysterious benefactor who also provides you with a means of healing, you find weapons, you defeat the demon, exit, and are free. You go up the hill to look out on your surroundings...and are promptly abducted by a giant crow and taken to where most of the game takes place.
Throughout the rest of the game, you encounter many other undead. Most are just the mindless assailants you cut through, some are the mindless ones wallowing in despair, but a few are still clinging to the edge of sanity, having some purpose that keeps them going. As you play through the game, many of them go Hollow as they lose their purpose. But you press on, staying true to your goals, and reach the end of the game. Or give up playing it and, according to an interview with the game's writer, canonically go Hollow in the process of stopping playing the game.
Throughout the game, first with the broad horror of the Undead Asylum and then with the more in depth experiences with Solaire, Seigmeyer, Griggs, Logan, Laurentius, Reah and her three disciples, and unnamed people like the Crestfallen Warrior, the game presents you with people who struggle in the face of adversity, lose one too many times, and give up. Simultaneously, you struggle against the game's legendary difficulty, forge ahead, and experience the joy of each and every triumph until you reach your goal at the end of the game. This combined adds up to the theme: *don't give up.* Life will throw challenges at you, and they may seem insurmountable. But time and again, you will find your way through, and in so doing, will experience the reward that can only be had through that sense of victory in the face of the impossible. NEVER give up. Stay true to yourself, and KEEP GOING.
That's a lesson I very much needed at the time. It's entirely possible that playing this game literally saved my life. And there is no way any non-game adaptation of Dark Souls could have presented it half so well. (And indeed, many aspects of what make the game so daunting to players are part and parcel of what made it so impactful - the only things I'd change about the game are some aspects of how it communicates its mechanics (they are dense and not well explained within the context of the game) and the community around the game (specifically teaching the "Git good" crowd some manners and to respect that newcomers to the game are not, and should not expected to be, skilled enough to do low level challenge runs)
there's one idea i've yet to see anyone try when it comes to video game adaptations, and it would be a perfect fit for the TV format. Anthology stories. a lot of game worlds are so big, and expansive....fallout is great, but i would've equally loved to see a series of just...a dozen episodes of self-contained stories. maybe some of them tie together. maybe some get brought back up later on. but i think the best way to capture the sense of immersion in a world like that is to see it from different lenses than just one protagonist.
Absolutely. Honestly, that's what I thought Arcane would be before it came out. Runeterra (the world of League of Legends) is such an expansive world with so many different regions, cultures and stories, I expected them to lean more into that variety. Not that I'm complaining about what we got, Arcane is amazing as it is... but there is so much more potential in Runeterra, and the series really has only scratched the surface yet.
It's the skill ceiling for me. I suck at video games - unless they are the older number crunch style, or a fighter I can button mash. My brother used to help me, but as we are adults now and life happens that's not really an option. Can be frustrating for my children as I cannot keep up with them when they want me to play. And so many games have amazing story and lore, it is really frustrating to not be able to engage. So having a good show to be able to experience at least some of the story and gain a better understanding is awesome.
I feel you. I've learned that before I buy certain kinds of games... get the trainers, or check for functions like Control has.
My partner is a HUGE gamer and we have to play children's games together cause I am just bad and even then he gets exasperated by my lack of skills sometimes (having to control the camera at the same time I control moving in 3D games is SUCH A PAIN IN MY ASS!!) or he ends up finding the games boring cause he has no challenges...
I think you just helped me realize why I felt so underwhelmed by the film version of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera. When I'm at a musical in a stage theater, it's such a powerful experience. I don't even know how to describe the feeling, except that it makes me feel really alive. And I didn't feel that magic when I saw the film.
Right now my favorite musical is Hadestown. I don't think it would work as a movie either, but it would be really wonderful if they did a good recording of it on stage.
In defence of movie adaptations of video games one has to say, that for a long time there wasn't even the posibility of them being good thanks to Uwe Boll and his tax scemes. He didn't care about making good movies, he didn't care about video games, he just cared about the garatied audience and the tax write off. And after he stoped making video game adaptations, the damage was so deeply ingrained in how the general audience and the studios precive them thad they couldn't be more than a fast cash grab cow that you would milk sometimes. I would say that Detective Picatchu was the final link in the chain of movies that tried to break those prejudices that was good enough to do it and in returne gave the studios the confidence to finance more adabtations of video games be it as movies or as serieses.
An absolute dream adaptation for me would be one of the two Soul Reaver games. The writing and voice acting is already above and beyond the standard for TV Shows, so all they'd really need to do is cut away the time spent on Raziel finding his brethren and unlocking new powers and instead have the focus be on him uncovering the Elder God's manipulation.
I would extend to legacy lf kain as a whole, blood omen and defiance have important parts of the story and characters unfold
God I appreciate your points about video game accessibility. The motion sickness thing happens to me too. I mostly like fantasy games. Dragon Age: Inquisition was the hardest for me to play. I suffered through it because I wanted it so bad, having to play in shorter sittings. Interestingly enough, Baldur's Gate 3 has not bothered my motion sickness at all. Maybe because it's more of an overhead perspective, and the scenery holds still unless you specifically want to rotate the camera, so it's not nearly so spinny.
And the skill issue. Yes. I never managed to finish Neverwinter Nights 2. I tried so many times and was never able to get through that final battle. I was on the easiest setting. I really appreciate that more of the video games in the last few years seem to offer a much easier story mode, so it's an option and you can still experience the story even if your gameplay skills aren't spectacular.
16:00 the other thing with undertale is that the choices made, are hidden. Most people won’t even realise it’s a choice you could make until a second playthrough. The first playthrough (99% of the time) will be one of the many variations of a grey playthrough. You will kill some people, spare others, and right at the end will be told what you LV actually represents and you have to live with yourself. Only after you do that does the game inform you that there is a choice you can make. And it is nowhere near so compelling when you watch someone else go through it.
Way to make me feel ancient, Vera. I saw Star Wars in a cinema, when it reached the dollar cinema but before Empire came out, so it was just "Star Wars".
I'll just stagger to the kitchen and make a cup of cocoa, hm?
Oooh yum, make one for me.
Completely agree that Detective Pikachu is the best video game movie we have ever had - although I might be biased...
For what it's worth, I did also like the Sonic movies despite having never played Sonic.
When Pikachu is singing... 💔
Was thinking that about the Sonic movie too - at least the first one. Would never call it a great movie, but it was definitely fun!
The reason detective pikachu works is you don’t have to know anything about Pokemon to enjoy it as the rules of the world are explained clearly but they aren’t explained in a way that is so repetitive that people who are familiar aren’t bored.
I actually thought Tomb Raider in the 2000s did a decent job as well. It’s styled as an Indiana Jones clone and not a “video game movie.”
@carschmn Detective Pikachu is one of the few pokemon games I've never played, I agree the film does a good job with the whole 'you don't have to know anything about the game to watch this we'll fill in the gaps for you'.
Sounds like the Knuckles show crapped the bed. Which is a bummer
I'm curious about the Borderlands movie.
Missing Arcane is quite an oversight given that Arcane season one is the greatest single season of television ever made - not animation, not game adaptation, all.
Yeah I realized that after this went up. Thats why there’s a pinned comment about that. But simply put, since it doesn’t share its name with the game, I’ve never played the game, and in fact I’ve never played a game in that genre, I literally keep forgetting it’s based on a game. But I think my points about Castlevania apply: source material that is heavy on lore and light on story.
@CouncilofGeeks I keep thinking its based off a comic or graphic novel, not a game 😅 it just has that feel to it
Ha, I was about to say that Detective Pikachu's a pretty solid 7/10 - not so amazing I'll rave about it, but good enough that I enjoyed it and would be willing to watch it again. Agree on the Mario movie, too.
Good video, I like that you touch on the idea that some things *could* work as movies instead of TV but work *better* in the long-form medium, whereas some things that *seem* like a layup miss the main reason they work, and some things just might not work in either movie or TV form because of essential elements.
I also appreciate that look at the inability to enjoy some games due to aspects like motion sickness or even skill level. The latter is a reason I am a fan of the "Easy" option existing - it's nice to have an option for people who just want to experience a game and enjoy that, don't feel the need to slam their face against a wall to feel challenged. Also nice to see other barriers addressed, including just...expense, both in terms of monetary cost, but even time cost can be a problem.
I wouldn't even call the Fallout show an 'adaptation', it expands upon the series as a whole by telling it's own story.
accessibility argument- I'm a gen X whose been playing games since you could get Atari cartridges (2600) from the library. (my first two computers did not run MS-DOS)I got through the first Batman game. I very quickly get hung up on skill training in the later games. I love Remedy's Control. I have to use the aimbot and some other adjustments or my slower reactions hit a skill gate. I've tried the rebooted Laura Croft- I at least get past the training sets, but very quickly get overwhelmed. I'm no longer fast enough to handle the combat and cannot plug the time into the game to get it. Portal and its sequels are fun... until the tight time levels mean I have to optimize my movements to an absurd degree. My father (silent gen) flat refuses to play them anymore because of the timed levels. I'm getting very careful with platform games. I nearly quit Gris on the invisible levels.
21:45 I KNOW!
Back when I was in school I got so fed up with teachers just handing us the text of Shakespeare and expecting us to engage with it as if that was enough to understand the full intent of the thing when we were still missing all the context those words were supposed to be part of. Just because they've spent years getting in the practice of teaching it so if that's become easier for them to understand it must be exactly the same for teenagers going through it the very first time. :-/
And the most baffling thing is that they would sometimes show us filmed versions of the plays but that only ever happened *after* the assignments were handed in.
Honestly, I know it's not even the point here, but you have no idea how happy it makes me to hear somebody else actually say this. :)
I agree with you, but I still think some games could be better suited to movies like Portal 1 and 2, Soma, The Sims (a Barbie-type movie with social commentary about agency, etc). But yeah... most of the big-name game' worlds need time, or they will just be disposable fun or bad movies with convoluted narratives.
Thank you for the video, Vera!
The big challenge of adapting video games in other mediums, such as TV series and movies, is losing the aspect of direct interaction. Even in the visual novel genre, the players are in control and can influence the games. Usually, that cannot happen in movies and TV series. As Vera explained, that interaction in games brings immersion (and, in some cases, losing is also part of it). And, at the same way, in games which are not heavily dependent in story, removing the direct interaction of the players will leave just barebone plots. That is why video game adaptations will try to fill gaps in stories, and, while keeping some core ideas, they must differentiate themselves of the original works in order to justify their existence by bringing something new, and make people experiencing the adaptations to care for them.
I laughed out loud when you called Detective Pikachu "the epitome of a 7 out of 10".
I know you did not mean that as an insult, but damn!
It still felt like a nasty burn.
I come to Halo as somebody not knowing anything at all about it. I actually really enjoyed the series.
One question: how?
@@Jedi_Spartan is it really that hard to believe someone’s not a gamer? My parents weren’t early adopters of tech so we didn’t have cable or video games until I was in 10th grade (we did have broadcast tv and dsl). I had 3 younger siblings who monopolized both once we did have it. So I just never got into gaming.
If you’re asking about how I liked the show, I turned it on, watched it, and enjoyed it.
@@carschmn I was referring to how you enjoyed it because - even if I didn't have a preexisting knowledge of Halo - the show just seemed terrible and like it couldn't decide what it wanted to be.
I feel like D&D is perfect for a series. Sessions are already thought of as episodes and an arc of a campaign is a season. Then, the diversity in styles and characters, and players can be captured in sort of the same manner as the Unprepared Casters podcast. Each season is in the same world but is a completely self contained story. Each season has different actors, characters, or even genres. Then you'd have little easter eggs to prior seasons that show a broader connected world. Holiday episodes could be special oneshots that bring different parties together. Each season would be written by a different writer with input from the actors; maybe two alternating showrunners.
It's ambitious but I think it could work.
I totally see that working if someone creative and ready to take risks does it! It could be so good in the right hands.
Personally, I was so let down by the Dungeons and Dragons movie that I’m aching for someone to do something really good with the premise, since I really like D&D but I haven’t had the chance to play it that much
This came up on Yakuza/Like a Dragon Twitter in the last few days as someone said they got into the series from watching streamers play the games. The person got a dumb negative comment about it. But most people I've seen in the actual fandom have been hey that is a totally fair way to get into the series, not everyone has money for (insert games, consoles, computers, etc), and is totally valid. Let people enjoy things.
Also, while there is a Yakuza movie it isn't very good (though it is fun to watch) I'd totally watch a series based off the games.
does that Yakuza movie adapt any of the goofy side-quests or the tone of them, as that is something that could make or break it in my eyes.
There will be a Video Game movie on an indie game coming this year that I am hyped for: Iron Lung!!!
It's a Horror Video Game, made with the Creator of the Game, which the game came out in 2022...And produced, *and most things else* by a TH-camr: Mark Edward Fischbach or if anyone been around for 12 Years on TH-camr his name is Markiplier!!! He kind off has done "Movies or Shows" in the past because his Projects feel like it, that's why I put it in quotes!!!
But seriously Mark is keeping everything Hush, Hush. But man he does stuff reallly great for some who does have ADHD!!!
I would recommend anyone watching, In Space with Markiplier as a start. It's a Choose Your Own Adventure Game with You the Player as The Captain and you have to Navigate your way through it!!!!
I would love to say more, but I don't wanna Spoil this Experience!!!
I feel Groundhog Day captures a lot of the feel of a rogueslike like Hades.
The accessibility thing is 100%. I love video games. I suck at video games. I have never finished a game, despite starting SO MANY. And I'll go back, and restart a dozen times, and always get as far as I can, and just GET STUCK cuz I can't fight fast enough, or jump accurately enough, or whatever (my new workthrough is getting my brother to get me through the hard parts after I try a dozen times so I can proceed with the story).
RE: Adaptations - Like Hamilton, one of (in my opinion) the best adaptations that was faithful to the source was "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead". On the other hand an adaptation that heavily adjusted the material and was not "faithful", but was still good (possibly better than the source), was "Nimona". As far as video games, I agree with all of your points even though I actually still like the 1993 version of Super Mario Bros.
Cyberpunk Edgerunners is based on a videogame too (that is itself based is based on a tabletop rpg) and is also a show that follows the lore without adapting a specific story.
Love these points, esp with games having a barrier to entry (motor/muscle functions issues). I like that point. I had my husband play Alice; The Madness Returns which is an awesome game, but a game both skill & motor/muscle barriers to watch him play. Almost forgot, the vertigo, not sure why, but damn, that game unlike any other, had vertigo super bad, eyes & brain couldn't understand it was a screen kind of thing and my life/body was not in any sort of danger to feel that nauseous (not seen it since in any other medium/media). The interactive element; well, since I can interact with him while he played. Also thinking THAT would be a game for adaptation, esp THAT particular iteration(a retelling/perspective shift of Alice in Wonderland books). The story itself is what kept us both going, it was indeed that good.
12:31
“bUt WhErE aRe ThE zOmBiEs?”
-Ben
I’m a person who gets headaches from video games and TERRIBLY nauseous from reading graphic novels and comics. So seeing (great) adaptions of those things is definitely a plus.
14:04 I haven't played it, but the only way I think Hades might be able to work (based on your description) would be something like "Heaven Sent" in Capaldi's run, where the focus is on the playable character (and yes, acting and casting would not be something you could just gloss over) and you would not have to adapt the story, but you would have to adapt a feeling of hopelessness. And yes, it would be a massive gamble. It has a very high chance of flopping. But it could also be amazing if it somehow got done right.
I also think that would have to be at least a season with the actual gameplay being an episode, maybe a two-parter, potentially, depending on the showrunner/studio's willingness not to skip over everything, a three-parter, with the rest being more setup/context/motivation to give the "let's do this again" a bit more stick and impact. Would I take that on? No. I'm not that good of a writer and I don't have the bandwidth to build all that out. There's also so many ways you could do it that even attempting to make a show like that would be an achievement in pre-production. My AuDHD would be all over the place trying to find out where to start, let alone anything besides "hopelessness but somehow, there's a tiny glimmer of hope that keeps yo going" that I would have to make an entire episode about "what if [character] didn't die" and make that an entire bottle episode JUST TO EXPLORE THAT POSSIBILITY. (Side note, I'm deep into Big Finish stuff, so I cannot type Zagreus with a straight face. Too many memes in the group chat.) It would stop becoming a narrative and start becoming an anthology.
And that might just be "Heaven Sent" (and if we're including setup, "Face the Raven") is the best two-part accidental adaptation of the game Hades that we're ever going to get.
Edit: Did not expect to write a mini essay in the comments.
yk i was kinda shocked that there wasn't any talks of making a dragon age show (not something necessary based on the games or books could had been also something new) like 2 years ago when all the streaming platforms were having thier fantasy show to capture that GoT audience
Is that not what Dragon Age Absolution was?
I think Silent Hill was a legitimately good movie. It's even listed as my favourite on Letterbox'd.
But I definitely think that the best option for adaptation is to make your own story while adapting the vibe and using the lore.
Arcane is def one of the best videogame shows I've never seen. Probably up there with last of us in my love for it. And the animation is gorgeous. The witcher too technically is vased on a game if also a book.
What really helps make The Last of Us show fantastic is good casting. The actors of Hilda and the Mandalorian are amazing in a father daughter duo role.
One funny thing is a lot of the Usual Suspects complained about how Ellie didn't look exactly like in the game - but anyone who actually _knows_ the game knows she looks a lot like young Ashley Jenkins, who voice-acted Ellie through the games. 😁
@@snorpenbass4196 It's a dumb nitpick that never ruined any adaptation. Before I watched Game of Thrones, Tyrion not losing his nose screamed stupid nitpick and it’s still a stupid nitpick after watching Game of Thrones that was never reason the show ended badly. Bella Ramsey can sing and play the guitar and that moment from The Last of Us part 2 is going to be amazing.
I agree! Video game movies *can* be hit or miss! As someone who not only enjoyed the Mario Movie but was actively anticipating it, I'll admit I was quite pleased! The character design and voice acting were all incredible despite the many memes surrounding Chris Pratt voicing Mario. However, I do wish that more of the music from the games was incorporated into the soundtrack. Instead, the film's soundtrack was mostly made up of generic license music, which was kind of a letdown. The Sonic movies have this problem as well, unfortunately. Which is especially disappointing because Sonic the Hedgehog is a franchise that is widely known for its incredible music, even if some of the games themselves happen to be mid.
Arcane and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners excel in their soundtracks because they are composed of mostly all original music. "Enemy", the main theme of Arcane, was an instant hit with Imagine Dragons fans and mainstream musicphiles alike. It took me a bit to appreciate JID's part in the song because his verse felt out of place at first, but when I realized he was rapping about Jinx's struggles, I could get behind it! Edgerunners had a couple of preexisting songs: one was "I Really Wanna Stay At Your House" from the actual game, the other was "This Ffire" by Franz Ferdinand, which became the main theme. But even if the main theme of Edgerunners wasn't a song from the game *or* a song that was written for the show, it still worked because 1) It was a very obscure song and not generic licensed music and 2) It fit the theme of the anime perfectly!
Sorry for the long ramble about how video game adaptations handle music. I could talk about many other factors when it comes to adapting games, but then this comment would turn into an essay lol 😂 Here are my (other) honorable mentions for video game adapted series: The Cuphead Show, The Super Mario Super Show, Sonic Boom, and Sonic Prime!
i missed the twitter thread/poll, but i reckon a game series that could excel as a tv show would be the Legacy of Kain franchise. more commonly known as Blood Omen and Soul Reaver. incredible narrative. expansive world. great characters. sadly, the last game was in 2005. and the series has languished in IP hell on a cliffhanger ending since then.
Holy shit, you put the thing into words.
A great example of a video game series that would be great for a multi-season tv series would be Like a Dragon. If in a film, then the funny sidequests. like the band one in Yakuza 0 or the go kart one in Like a Dragon, that contrast to the serious main story and make the games stand out would be cut for time because of how they deviate from the main plot. In a tv series, these could be given their own episode. By ommitting most of these subplots, a film version would fail to create the almost cartoony world of Like a Dragon, creating a crime drama with maybe some comedy. The series version, however could give these excursions their own episodes, to create an absurd crime-comedy with dramatic moments that would make emotional moments with Kiryu hit harder after seeing him belt his heart out in karaoke or join a band.
Half-Life would transition amazingly well to an adventure serial. It's already episodic in structure with a few underlying plot threads. Most have an action set piece, some environmental storytelling, some character interactions to fill out.
"Last time on half-life gordon freeman was running late, but so were some of his coworkers ... shot of freeman yelling sucker at barney from the tram ... before incinerating a colleagues breakfast and ushering in the green apocalypse"
Don’t know if you ever gave Twisted Metal a chance but I thought it was good for what it was.
I would add in the Arcane, Cyber Punk, Dota: Dragon's Blood, Dragon Age, and Dragon's Dogma series to this list.
As far as Hades killing the protagonist over and over, there is a anime that does this called RE:Zero, and it is done very well since you feel the horror and despair of him resetting again and again. I bet you could do it very well with instead of horror, focusing on the exhaustion, frustration, and determination that Zagreus would feel.
I wish I had the attention span to finish any of this series :( I managed to finish Arcane I don’t know how, but otherwise I start a lot and don’t finish any 😭 In fact, I started Castlevania, maybe I even managed to finish the 1st season? I don’t even remember :( Funnily enough, I don’t have problems with finishing books because I listen to music while doing so, and my brain interprets it as doing multiple things at the same time and so it’s happy with that xD
Tbh, I’d love a series about Hollow Knight (animated ofc), but I don’t know if it’d translate well from game to series 😅 Same happens with some mangas when they try to adapt them into animes, some doesn’t translate well to the animated form and it just doesn’t work.
Undertale I can see it being adapted since in the Fallout games you also have to make choices (from what I know, because I’ve never played them. I saw gameplays tho), so maybe there’s a way of doing it, but it’d have to be done by someone really creative and able to make it work
I would throw Cyberpunk Edgerunners onto that list as well. That show was singularly responsible for Cyberpunk getting its second wind and making people actually care for when Phantom Liberty came out. More players were playing the game after Edgerunners came out than when the game initially dropped, even tho it was one of the most anticipated games at the time.
Because the show showed just how engaging the particular flavor of cyberpunk 2077 offered could be. The odd mix of expected cyberpunk aesthetics but mixed with an American southwest vibe, mixed with the liberal use of the lingo from the game, on top of having an engaging and endearing cast of characters and a supreme sense of style.
Anime has grappelled with the concept of the loopiness in visual novels. While Haruhi's Endless Eight is an art desaster, Re:Zero has impressively captured the idea. So no, the loopiness of Hades can be translated to a static medium. It just needs a little more than a montage.
(Haruhi is so meta about it's time, may not land as well today. Watching in release order and bailing the endless eight, once you get it, to save yourself the suffering, is required. Re:Zero has a strong opener and then takes a whale shaped nose dive).
Also the setup of groundhog day is a visual novel.
The 'first' or 'neutral' run, where you kill based on inital naivite or a moral compass is central to Undertale. While only the two others survive the grinder of memeification, the contrast and the 4th wall breaking interactions created from chaining runs of all 3 types is what truely elevates Undertale.
The pre-reboot Tomb Raider was trashy fun. Insert random T-Rex here.
On the subject of things that are hard to adapt because of their medium, House of Leaves is a book that's basically impossible to adapt because it's *extremely* tied to *being* a novel.
Video games for the most part definitely work better as shows. And with how popular a franchise Star Wars is, I can’t see why Star Fox doesn’t get the same treatment as a Clone Wars style tv show. But for now, there’s an independent content creator on YT who created a web series called A Fox In Space. If you’re a fan of Star Fox or Animated Adult Swim shows, I’d highly recommend it. It shows potential for what Nintendo is missing out on, of course.
Immersion, good point.
Speaking to accessibility, there are so many games that have visual and auditory cues that are wholly inaccessible to the Blind and Deaf communities. There are whole markets of people who either simply cannot or can with extreme difficulty play these games games. Further, the argument companies make is that accessibility is too expensive. Well, there are smaller indy gaming companies who build accessibility in from the ground up and don't lose money for being accessible. Plan for accessibility from the start and everybody wins. Fail to do so and it's game over for disabled gamers.
Ahh, but I forgot, we live in a society that doesn't care about disabled people. It doesn't see us as people.
Spot on. Although I'd also love to see a video game adapted into a pre-planned trilogy, a la Lord of the Rings. Difficult to pull off - but heaven if it works.
What if they made the _Undertale_ movie interactive? Y’know, like choose-your-own-adventure?
How long before we get a Lucasarts movie/series? Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Sam & Max or The Dig seem obvious, but I would be interested in a Loom adaptation (intriguing world with little story, so plenty of opportunities).
Same here! A game I forgot to mention in the Twitter question was King's Quest! I'd be VERY interested in seeing how someone adapts that into a movie/show :)
I’ve heard the Twisted Metal show is pretty good
I think I probably agree on Undertale. I'm less familiar with Hades.
The closest I can get are two kind of format snarls. For Hades it would probably be to structure it similar to a timeloop show. Leave it up in the air whether this episode is going to end with a jump back to the beginning or more progress and play that for somewhat unconventional tension. I seem to remember a piece of hypertext fiction I read doing that, where it used the seeming similarity to the last time you saw it to lull you into a false sense of security, then had things slowly change around you.
Undertale, I can think of two ways. The easiest one is to take advantage of the 'automatic advert' on some platforms to insert multiple endings as a separate track that the episode jumps to at random. I've seen podcasts do this once or twice. I imagine you could do something like this, though it would probably be unbearably complicated and not worth it. The other (which I think mirrors the choice based character of undertale) is to just make two separate shows with similar titles and run them in competing shots. Give them very different tones, but the sam characters. Now the audience is forced to choose which story they want to follow, or whether they actively go back to catch up on the one they missed, alternate, etc. It kind of draws the viewer into considering the interaction they have in choosing to watch something, by making their choice directly part of the story. It's stupid and infeasible, but it's doing a similar meta thing.
I have to admit, I am not particularly enthusiastic about the "Boarderlands" film, but I am very hopeful for the upcoming "Horizon" series on Netflix.
Dune Part I was made as a single movie and is very immersive
I would argue that the biggest argument for TV shows being better than movie at adaptations is a lack of oversight. With a movie the studio is always going to have their idea of what it should look like, with the TV show the actual producers and writers have more control
Pro-shots are a legal nightmare these days and expensive to make. I'm all for the idea of doing more of them but we are going to have to make them easier to make.
I'd also point to Digimon as undisputably good, since I absolutely count tamagotchi-like devices as video games and at _least_ Adventure and Tamers are indisputably good (of the initial four Digimon Shows Adventure 02 had some production issues midway through which caused it to sag in the middle, and Frontier is... Divisive...) - I'd also tentatively throw in the more recent Ghost Game (though that went to Crunchy Roll premium halfway through so I haven't finished watching it)
I usually roll my eyes when people start talking about immersion, but you seem to be using it in a more... Useful... way than how video game marketing tends to use it (which as far as I can tell 99% of the time means "We spent a lot of money on photo-realistic graphics") giving me an almost Pavlovian response to the word. But, yeah. The ability to just... Decide to linger in an area of a game, hang out in a hub world, sit and watch a sunset because it's pretty is a form of engagement with a video game - whether we call it immersion or something else - that cannot be replicated in other media, because that's always player directed in a game, while in another medium it's because the production team or author chose to slow the pacing down at that point.
The closest I've seen to that Roguelike feel in non-video game media would be either TNG's Cause and Effect or Game Changer's Deja Vu. Neither of these are intended as adaptations of video games. (Well, Cause and Effect definitely isn't. I'm not really sure what the influences are on Deja Vu that led to it being... Eldritch comedy? I think I'd describe that episode as an Eldritch comedy?) - It's not just the time loop, it's also the gradual figuring out of what's going on and gaining of competence - and eventually mastery - within the situation going on within that time loop that provides it, while most time loops go the Groundhog day approach of 'exploring the possibility space with no consequences and eventually learning something from the experience.' (And there's a stage adaptation of Undertale. It's a musical. 4 hours, it's on youtube somewhere, I keep meaning to find time to watch it because while I agree with you about Undertale being unadaptable, I am _fascinated_ to see a 4 hour stage musical attempt at doing so.)
Filming stage shows - particularly musicals - absolutely used to happen more than it does now. They then used to be released onto VHS and also got television airings. I _think_ the general theory is they stopped doing those because Broadway and the West End started to get paranoid that they were reducing demand for going to the stage shows (I also _think_ it was around the same time as a ticket price hike outside of indie theatres that they cut down on them significantly)
Excellent video. I can understand your points, to be immersed in that world is important just as a good story is too. I love Castlevania so so good! I also enjoy Detective Pikachu and Sonic as some of my favorite games films. I will admit Assassins Creed is my guilty pleasure I know it's not good, but I enjoy it.
The Last Of Us season 1 does a phenomenal job at working with only 9 episodes.
oh yeah I need to finish watching Sonic Prime
I think Sandbox and expansive RPGs would suffer from show and especially movie adaption. While this will always be true for most games to some extent, when the core experience of a game is crafting your own unique story, it cannot be adapted into a linear story.
I think Hades can be adapted into TV well. It tells a linear family drama with the Greek pantheon. Some things would need to change like father and son reconciling after the 1st successful escape attempt.
I agree the key factor is Immersiveness, but we can#t ignore HOW the adaptations achieve that. I'd argue that it could be done with a movie, if the filmakers had something the shows you mentioned have in spades: Restraint. With mvie adaptations, the film makers try to throw everything they can from the game into that one movie, and ot's a jumbled mess that only people who really appreciate the core material can still enjoy. Wit a TV show, they have more time, and know they have to fill that time, so they can include all the ame things but spread things out more- but that can be done with a movie, I thin. You won't get the full experiencve, you only see part of the setting or story, but it could be immersive if they did't try to include everything. It certainly helps if they know they are certainly going to get multiple movies (like they did with LotR) to spread things out.
Motion sickness and mild photo sensitivity keeps a lot of games out of my reach. I knew a bit about the fallout world going into the show because I throw on deep dive videos on games I've never played while I do other stuff. and it is also something that has gotten worse as I've gotten older. Which means stories like the last of us and fallout were never on the cards for me to be able to experience. I can't even play some of the old platformers I used to love as a kid anymore.
But I'd love to see silent hill 2 adapted for tv, I think it could work really well. because an 8 to 10 episode show will allow you to really soak in the atmosphere of the foggy town and slow burn some of the reveals
The best video game adaptation is lowkey L.A. Confidential, which is basically a movie version of L.A. Noire. Yeah, I know there was something like 20 years between them, but shut up.
Btw, I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments about adaptation. The whole point of an adaptation is to tell a story from a new medium and new perspective. One of my favourite films is The Hunt For Red October and the novel is also fantastic. That being said, the film removes a lot of the baggier elements of the novel, including various character’s backstories (importantly, the film puts more emphasis on Ryan and Ramius than the novel). It’s actually one of the few films which I’d argue is better than the novel. The Shining is also a good example. A film which takes the concept of a novel, and then goes off into its own direction.
Game adaptations into movies feels like a cash grab. It doesn't feel like the people making them care about the games at all. Arcade, Last of US, Castlevania, and Fallout feel like love letters to the original material.
I get motion sickness too whilst playing certain games, sucks. Also, my wrist sometimes plays up if I have to mash buttons a lot. So, I watch let's plays of games I want to see the story of. Also, I watch horror games instead of playing them, cause I'm a massive wuss.
Forgot to add the time sink for those who grew up playing games and doesn't really have the time anymore.
This is my second "plug" for Pim's Crypt. Pim does awesome content about horror, mostly video games. I think their essays I'm actually given me a better experience on certain games that I desperately wish I could play then watching a "Let's Play" in many instances especially if part of a franchise, lore heavy, (or more interestingly) "external" lore - inspiration, Easter eggs, ambiance etcetera that the developmental team included that enriches the experience once you're aware but could be overlooked easily by somebody simply playing through.
An accessibility issue that I feel you missed, beyond any physical, psychological, or financial limitations, one of the biggest barriers has to be time. I'd argue that to truly enjoy Fallout 4, you need to dedicate at least 40-50 hours to it, to really explore the world, discover the secrets of the world, appreciate the nuance of the world (sure, you could skip every side quest and get through the main storyline in about the same amount of time as the Fallout TV show, but you miss out on like 95% of the experience of playing Fallout 4). I know a lot of people with several hundred hours in the game. Lot's of games require these massive numbers of hours to properly enjoy and having that much time available, that you aren't having to work, aren't having to take care of the upkeep of your home, aren't having to take care of children, is truly a luxury.
I do think for the 90’s super Mario bro. and darkstalkers were good not saying sure Mario bros was perfect but not as bad as people want to make it out to be cause I saw it when it was originally released in 1993 and really enjoyed it I do think it was a good call make the world more like a business type world instead of an actual kingdom like the games especially if your not going to make the Koopas look reptilian for the most part making bowser an corrupt businessman works and for someone who likes magical items in movies and television having a piece of meteorite princess peach had that the Mario brother get a hold of be like a magical item to unlock the power of the meteor works and made princess peach look more like she could handle herself more then in the games where she essentially was a damsel in distress type character
Another video game that would be impossible to turn into a film: Shadow of the Colossus
I think the Undertale issue applies very widely. Take even Fallout itself: they chose to tell an original story, and that means it's not running into any issues of canon deviation. It's not trying to retell a story where the player used to have real input, like they often do in RPGs.
I would also add another kind of video game story that wouldn't work in a TV context: a story that lies to the player, like Nier or Fire Emblem Three Houses. Getting to ending A in both Nier games involves being lied to, and those lies are exposed on a route B replay. In video games, this works because New Game Plus is a known way of engagement, but there's no New Game Plus in static media. As any poor soul who watched Endless Eight can tell you, attempts to do this can be extremely bad for the show.
I’m surprised you never mentioned Arcane.
Because I never got into that series or even that genre of game I literally keep forgetting it’s based on a game. But I think what I said about Castlevania pretty much applies (more lore than plot).
this got me thinking, what about watching other people play? isn't that closer to playing the game than watching an adaptation? like the examples mentioned with watching a filmed version of a play instead of a movie adaptation
Next videogame to TV show that I want.
XENOGEARS.
20:53 I don't think the 'bringing new audiences' arguement is made for people with accessibility issues, for the most part (although it does make more of sense).
I think that what they are trying to argue is that even a crappy movie/ tv show/ whatever will intrigue people enough to try out the original game. That's what they mean by 'bringing in new audiences'.
The negative discourse around crappy adaptations alone is enough to make people think 'well if the original is that much better maybe I'll try it out' 🤷🏽♀️
I've seen it happen, and it has happened to me several times (but not with video games so much, mostly book adaptations)
Time is an accessibility barrier to playing these games too. A lot of people don't have the time to sink hundreds of hours of gameplay into one game (especially if you are like me and get agitated by the thought of leaving any quests uncompleted)
Yeah. Borderlands is my favourite game franchise of all time. It's what got me back into gaming. The movie looks.. 🤣🤣 well I'll go see it for the laughs. Imagine a Borderlands anime though!
imo this was one of the problems with the Warcraft movie too, that game franchise has massive amounts of lore and even with changes made to simplify things in the film, for ppl unfamiliar with Warcraft i can see how it still could have been overwhelming, whereas a tv show would have allowed a new audience time to orient themselves. it had other issues ofc, as do the games, but as one of the rare Warcraft movie enjoyers i am a bit sad that there probably won't be another attempt at adapting that universe anytime soon (tho also blizzard are awful so im not *too* sad, heh)
i havent seen many other shows based on games but i think both Fallout & Twisted Metal went about things in a smart way for adapting games that aren't as narratively fixed as The Last of Us, having a central "player character" with their own new personal story, operating within the wider world of the game. the context is shared, there's overlap in elements, there are fun nods for the pre-existing fans, but it still works well as a standalone. this might have been a better approach for Warcraft rather than trying to directly adapt a major event in the lore tbh.
like..a good movie *can* do this, but yeah, way more room can be given to the worldbuilding, tone, and characters when they don't have to jam it all into 2hrs. they can afford to goof around more, have more subplots, explore more, and let ppl absorb it all at a less breakneck pace - just as with gaming you *can* speedrun something, but a lot of ppl enjoy going slower, spending time just messing around in a different world, and value that as much as (or even more than) finishing the story or hitting max lvl.
I sort of agree, but what is your take on plays that have been adapted from books. I have recently read both the book and play of The curious incident of a dog in the night time, and I feel that this would have worked better as a film, as for the main character there are some visual stimuli in the book that would be very difficult to achieve on stage. In the play they replace this with more audio stimuli that don’t quite do the book justice. This may be a unique example though.
I haven't seen very many plays adapted from books where I actually read the book, so unfortunately I don't have much perspective to offer on this.
Great video, but how you not gonna talk about Arcane 😂
Because it's not named after the game, I've never played the game, and I legit keep forgetting it's an adaptation.
I thought the Angelina Jolie Tomb Raider movies were good dumb fun. I like globetrotting adventure movies
What about Oxenfree? When you were playing it on Twitch I thought it would make a good movie.
I'm actually not sure I agree, because devoid of the interactive elements it'd be a slightly above average ghost movie. Kind of like how Uncharted is pretty mid if you're not the one in control of it.
@@CouncilofGeeks true, but the bar on ghost films is so low above average would be really good in relative terms. If that makes sense.
Am i the only one who is more or less indifferent to the Castlevania series? 😅
I’m curious as to what you think of the film adaptation of _Papers, Please_ .
While I get your dislike of the binging model, have you seen what Netflix have done with brigerton?! Half a season and then over a whole month for the second half. I would definitely argue that is a whole lot worse! I wouldn’t remember what happened in the first half after that long 😂
For context, a book that sells 25k copies is a hit. Entertainment television is expected to have more like 2M viewers, even for an average show. If you're a storyteller whose only objective is to deliver your story to the most minds as you can, a television adaptation is the only way to go
If your only objective is the most eyes on your work as possible over say “what’s the form most fitting for this story” then you’ve already lost the plot artistically.
I'm sorry but I'm just not with you on this one. My opinions on things often line up pretty well with yours but Wicked is a great example. It was a very successful book first. The musical only happened because of it's very devoted book fans. My feeling is that you really have to understand that the things people get from a format are different inherently but that can and has complemented very different stories. I loved the book and will always stand by my feeling that the musical wasn't as good, but my sister loves that version. I loved the Last of Us game, but what I got from the show was very different and I feel in some ways better. The show was able to expand the focus on characters to more than just the central plot, and gave us the best episode that was a bit of lore in the game more than a sidestory. Depending on the type of gamer the original lore might not have even been a thing they fully put together. The point to me about adaptation has always been showing us why the story should be told a different way. Don't give me a one for one experience because it won't translate. Give me the soul that you found vital in your adaptation. It might not be what I loved so much, but it gives me a new perspective on the story or characters. Maybe I'll still like the original better, but maybe someone else will love it when they wouldn't have loved the original. We've been telling and retelling stories in different ways for millenia because it builds. Our concept of King Arthur is French fanfiction of anglo saxon myth/lore. Shakespeare is a spin on most other stories of his fellow playwrights. Sherlock Holmes has been adapted more than almost any other property and my favorite version is cartoon mice. Every disney movie is an adaptation of a children's tale or myths. Video games are just the newest format and so have to figure out the benefits of adapting or pitfalls. Personally I thought the most recent sucess in adapting something that most feel can't be adapted was the Dungeons and Dragons movie last year. It focused on the disparate characters having to grow and work together just like a real group of players have to do. It brought the flavor without devolving into the nitty gritty that held up so many other attempts. My sister will never ever play D&D, but she loved that movie without knowing the first thing about table top gaming. She enjoyed the weird creatures and magic that she got no explanation for, but she especially loved the story of a bunch of weirdos with different goals coming together and becoming heroes to themselves and everyone else. That was the soul they adapted. Video games have adapted other formats stories many times, but it'll take some time before we figure out how to do the reverse and I think we're beginning to see the successes really take off. I also put a lot more weight into adaptations giving new people a chance to experience a story. I have always loved video games, but my sister can't enjoy them. She has her reasons that no one really has a right too, but she can't enjoy the worlds that I know she would like the stories and lore for if she had access. Now she understands why I loved the Last of Us so much. She didn't enjoy Fallout as much but she didn't hate the show. I think she'll continue watching it if we get more. Not everyone has access to video games. Adaptation leys them get a peek of these things. Maybe not everything gets an adaptation, but we've always found new ways to retell great stories and I think much of that is fundamental to humanity. Some stories will get more attention and might endure longer than others, but all stories should get adapted by the people who love them.
I consider myself to be a very good reader but reading Shakespeare's plays and seeing his plays performed on a stage is night and day different
oh lordy....i hated when we had to "READ" a shakespear play in english class in High School....it turned me off from wants to EVER see a shakespear play or movie....the only movie i ever saw was the Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo Di Carprio and even that was poop and yes i know it was an attempt to modernize it.....but i have never watch a shakespear play or movie...not even West Side Story.....all because we were FORCED to read the scripts of the plays...Shakespear's plays were mean to be WATCHED with real, living actors putting their emotions and movement into the performance to bring it to life......a more currect play that been out for a decade now...i haven't seen, but can you imagine trying to read the script for Hamilton.....i don't think it would be as popular today as it is if you had to read the script before seeing the play performend on stage
Loyalty to original plots is not particularly important and can be a hindrance to good story telling, especially in tandem with other practical and financial limitations. Loyalty to the source setting/lore and _narrative themes_ is crucial. When you drop those, you're just trying to steal an audience with false promises. It depends somewhat on the subject, but loyalty to the personality traits and mental mechanisms that define characters tend to be pretty important too - especially in longer form properties that focus on character development.
When you see people get utterly pissed off about an adaptation (and it's not just anti-wokism), it's because the adaptation was tone-deaf to the narrative themes explored by the original work and thus completely misrepresenting it. Imagine if Fallout had gone full adult horror, like Game of Thrones with nukes, or told some kind of G-rated savior tale. Or consider anything and everything Wheel of Time did. I don't think a single soul involved in that had a clue about its most basic, underlying theme of interaction between power dynamics and the gender divide, let alone who any of the characters actually were.
When people complain about plot changes, it's often because those changes _also_ violate the narrative theme or redefine a character. The original work was often as good as it was thanks to the author being respectful toward their own characters, carefully preserving a coherent personality. They can get it wrong, but it's very rare for an adaptation to actually understand the characters _better._
There aren't many properties that are genuinely good from a story telling perspective and _not_ centered around specific, well-defined people. Stories are told about people, and its with people that people connect. (I'll pause while your minds finish asploding at that shocking reveal.) But the ones that are, come from video games with their reliance on game mechanics and immersion as primary narrative vehicles. You'd be hard pressed to find another medium that even allows let alone often requiring an anonymous main character.
Video games ought to be one of the easiest things to adapt to movies or shows, given their predilection to just give you a setting and let you bring your own characters (actual story). But you articulated well something that was only subconsciously in the back of my mind. If the setting/immersion _is_ the game, then the only medium that can work is the one that reproduces _that._ The audience must have the space to steep in vicariously through the long-form experiences of the main characters.
29:26 You should have said, _To really feel _*_enraptured_*_ …_
Oh dang it, that would have been good.
I kind of disagree with your take on the Wicked movie. I've seen the show twice live, listened to the original Broadway soundtrack more times than I can count, read the book, and "Dancing Through Life" was even one of my college audition songs.
I still see value in the movie adaptation. It will be a fundamentally different form of art from the stage show and I have loved the look of the two trailers we've gotten so far. Adapting the musical to the screen allows them to do things that simply can't be done on a live stage and some people will just never want to watch a staged musical, recorded Hamilton-style or live. The two can coexist without either being inherently worse than the other. The only thing I really hate that they're doing with the movie is splitting it in two. If they were doing a faithful adaptation of the book, I might see a need to split it in two but not the musical. That's just wholly unnecessary.
It should also be pointed out that calling the stage show an adaptation of a book isn't the whole truth. It's an adaptation of a book that is itself a spinoff of another book series that has multiple other previous film adaptations and spinoffs. The musical is also an adaptation of the book in pretty much the loosest sense possible and I think that's kind of key to viewing the movie adaptation. The movie and the stage show share the same foundation but will be, at their core, completely different works of art just like how the stage show and the book share the same foundation but are completely different works of art.
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
Arcane >>>>>>>>> Castlevania
Detective Pikachu is maybe my favourite video game adaptation… with Sonic movies in 2nd place.