The Matrix-level existential crisis that’s gonna hit Jack later when he realizes he came in wearing the helmet only to see the same helmet already on the shelf as background dressing
one of the Goblin Slayer novels has the adventurer's guild create a dungeon for new adventurers to challenge, which led to the main characters designing it. then they accidentally linked up to ancient caves, with a real monster in it, and a novice went into the caves so the challenge was rushing in to rescue them... preferably without letting anyone know about the mistake. made for a memorable story - a dungeon in a dungeon, with one dungeon master trying to navigate the other dungeon
In our games, there are very rarely dungeons. But I have little something-something coming up for my group, which may contain more-than-small amounts of dungeon. So these videos have come at _just_ the right time. So thank you!
@@SSkorkowsky Hey Seth long time fan here, thank you for always having great and knowable content to share with us and keep up the amazing work. Also do you have any interest in showing off OSR stuff or different rule sets that try to capture the old school style of DND?
Not really. Nothing against the systems themselves, I've heard a lot of great things about them. But I'm a very hard sell on D&D-style games anymore. The past few years I've gravitated more toward modern and sci-fi settings over medieval fantasy. I also prefer Skill-Based systems far more than Level-Based ones.
I have one video covering why I prefer Skill-Based over Level-Based systems. My GM Burnout video covers the time when after 18 years of D&D I was done, so we switched to Cyberpunk and I got my groove back. As far as why I prefer modern and sci-fi settings, well, I simply prefer modern and sci-fi settings. That's the reason my novels are set in the present day.
I did a raiders of the Lost ark puzzle floor trap, but the PCs found an alternate way in, so they discovered the floor when they were already past it. They definitely found the access hallway, and found that half the crossbow bolts had ancient poison darts, and half of them had modern ones. "Yay, we got sweet poison darts ..... Oh crap someone else is in here!"
An open statement I give my players when facing puzzles, traps, or other obstacles is this: "There is no entrance without an exit. I promise you, you either have the answer, or the access to it."
I feel like that should be at the start of any session or campaign, just as a general note. I feel like players need to go out of their way (knowingly) before getting stuck.
I ran the dungeon from Indiana Jones. My interpretation of the light trap was that there was some kind of light sensitive plant bladder that shrank under sunlight, triggering the trap. Naturally, the trap stays open during the hours of darkness.
I did almost the reverse, I triggered the trap with a fine filament (spider silk for example) which was only visible while in that shaft of light; it isn’t the light itself which is the trigger; but the light which allowed Indy (and my players) to locate and avoid the trigger (and in terms of Raiders itself, in the depths of a rainforest, the light was probably very lucky; no trees, undergrowth or cloud cover as they went through).
In my 3rd ed D&D days my players raided a Thieves Guild hideout. Deep inside they got to a training room full of bell covered pick pocketing dummies and walls lined with various locked chests, etc. The fight goes badly for the thieves in that room so the quartermaster bolts down one of these two doors in the wall. Most of my group follows him only to discover it’s a series of trapped rooms used for trap training, with each small room more difficult and dangerous than the last. The quartermaster knows all the tricks and moves through it quickly and safely, but the players get caught up in issues. About 5 rounds later the quartermaster busts out of the second door having completed the U shaped trap course and is immediately tackled by the Druid in bear form. That particular player looked at the first two rooms of the course, turned around and walked out and readied an action on the second door. He was smarter than the average bear.
The shifting dungeon is a really cool idea. Do you draw 4 different dungeon shapes, so that if they hit the button in the 3rd corner, you flip over to your 3rd dungeon shape.
It was like I made 1 dungeon, then left empty space for rooms I could use later, then made it so that each version shared portions or walls with other configurations. So a single wall might be for a hallway, then a huge room, then the opposite side of the wall would be a different hallway, then back to a hallway that had a 'T' intersection. Other things might be the columns in a room might stay in the same place, but are now braces for a hall, or the room would return, but now the columns were a different shape and one wall was concave. Then there were rooms that never changed, but were cut off from all but 1 of the configurations. For some incomprehensible reason, I drew my GM map all on the same page with different colors of ink, so it looked like some sort of madman's scribblings. When the PCs entered certain rooms and did X (usually some puzzle or something) stone doors would close, then they'd hear the shifting, then that door or a different one would open them to release them onto the next "level".
Reminds me of a dungeon I did with math, each room had different pedestals with a set of numbers and symbols carved on them, and the players could set them into specific equations to move into specific numbered room (like X + Y, and they could chance the X, the Y and the + into other options already carved in the pedestal). There were a potential 30ish rooms, some with traps, others with treasures, most of them with monsters (a monster mash) and a couple with keys for the last door. A message written in blood gave the numbers of the actual rooms of importance. The idea was that the entire place was a wizard's idea of a zoo, different rooms being cells for exotic beasts, plus a few with resources to deal with them (food, tools to capture, etc) and the main one being his office. Sadly the math proved annoying to my players and the dungeon dragged on for too long (two full sessions), and it didn't help that I messed up one of the equations and there was no way to reach one of the key rooms. Really bothered me since I put a lot of effort into every equation and permutation to make sure it was possible to do, and I missed one.
Can I just say THANK YOU for not making a “DND is collapsing” click bait video? It feels like this channel is the last refuge on TH-cam for sane GM content
You sly son of a gun. I see you sneaking in that Deluxe Limited Edition Blade Runner core rulebook at the end! Still waiting on mine in the mail. Looking forward to future videos about that. 👍
I was a bit sceptical of your categorisation (especially between traps and hazards), but the point about repetition really clarified it for me. Drawing conscious distinctions makes it a lot easier to build in conscious variation and avoid unconscious repetition. Also, your point about a trap not necessarily catching the person triggering it reminded me of my great-uncle, who apparently died in the Italy campaign when the guy walking in front of him stepped on a mine. That guy lost his leg(s), but my great-uncle died.
Dael Kingsmill of @MonarchsFactory has a video on traps that contains some additional classification on traps (specifically) that I've found useful - by intent: Deter, Delay, Detain, and Destroy (ms. Kingsmill used a slightly different wording, but I like this alliteration). In addition there is naturally also the alarm.
You know, Seth, you are one of only two TTRPG youtubers I regularly watch and rewatch. You and Matt Colville both have great content with lots of useful tips and information, and I appreciate the work you do.
Seth! It is so funny that you used the example for the same „Riddle“ that was part of the „Seven more Game-Master Sins“ - To eager to assist sketch - Loved that Part, where The Gang did not have to do anything really ❤
Regarding riddles they can be fun in more role play/social ways than as actual puzzles- I think the best riddle based puzzle I’ve dealt with as a player ended with our characters getting into a heated debate with the riddle-giver over how the answer didn’t really make sense, and really ours was better.
Something I learned a while back from The Angry GM is the "Click Rule". Wherein if the PCs fail the rolls to perceive a trap or hazard, they might be given a visual or auditory (or olfactory, if it's something like poison on a doorknob or a gas leak) cue immediately before it goes off. Like stepping on a pressure plate until it goes "click". The player is given an opportunity to state what their character's split second reaction is. Examples include diving a certain direction, holding up their shield, holding their breath, etc. Depending on their decision, they may get Advantage or Disadvantage on the resulting saving throw. Or else negate the trap entirely. It gives the players agency in their situation, rather than the trap being a binary pass-fail depending on dice rolls.
I'd love an entire series of you discussing how Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark is the perfect TTRPG movie. I have used this movie countless times to explain mechanics, dungeon design, skill checks, failing forward, etc to players and dungeon masters, so much so, I practically have the movie memorized line for line.
Rewards! The happiness of the players ends up being a reward for the GM! Glad you put this in the video, I'm working on a dungeon right now and it definitely gave me a great idea.
I like the stargate example. Especially since one of the early episodes was literally an example of sending someone through the gate before understanding how it worked and them being stranded for decades.
I love that the hobby has Advocates like you who really understand the elements of play, and are able to pass along the knowledge to make them all happen.
This came along at a perfect time. Season 1 of our game didn't really have a ton of dungeons or dungeon-like aspects, but for Season 2 I really wanted to go with a globe trotting Indiana Jones -esque story which means lots of tombs and catacombs *cough* dungeons *cough*. This'll be a major help!
Literally just created a massive eldritch dungeon crawl for my first Miskatonic Repository scenario. Playtesting this weekend to see how it goes and then making tweaks after with the critiques. Tons of great info here, Seth. Thanks!
I like "puzzles" that occur DURING a battle... that maybe you have to push those pillars but there is also a fight going on, so people have to decide what to spend their actions on!
@@thomasbecker9676 oh I did not want to write too much, but by puzzle here I meant something that is very simple or maybe can be solved by trial and error. On the whole I tend to avoid puzzles as my players dont like them. But really simple stuff... sometimes.
Traps/puzzles/hazards are always more interesting when they factor in to a battle - even more so if one side (which could be the heroes if they're clever) draws the fighting to them deliberately.
Just wanted you to know Seth as a GM I really have been enjoying many of your videos the past 2 weeks especially your game scenario reviews. Your aliens review is what got me to pick up everything available to them. Keep up the great content creation I look forward to your future videos
The adventure "The sinister secret of Saltmarsh" can also be found in the 5e adventure compilation book "Ghosts of Saltmarsh"! That's were I first got to know it! I also loved the haunted house map a lot! Unfortunately, my players were too high a level to run the haunted house in a satisfying way, so I decided to spice it up a bit! How do you spice up a house which the players are to enter? Well, I stole a lot of ideas from the "Home Alone" movies, added a high level arcane trickster as a villain, and added a bunch of suitably improvised traps! My players eventually figured out the inspiration after I managed to dump a chest full of books on their characters from the second floor. She went "hey, are we Harry and Marv?!". Groans and laughs were had. 10/10 got to really put my players through the ringer with a bunch of really weird and funny traps. Will never forget the paladin falling through two floors and into the basement whilst on his mount!
I can't help but be kinda proud of myself as you give great tips and I realized I use most of them already. Ran a "oneshot" (took 3 or 4 sessions) for a dungeon where it was supposed to feel open so I put three demon skulls to function as a keys in order to get to final boss. It hit me how much of your advice I already use when you said scavenger hunt and thought of this. Great video an though I took a moment to take pride in my work you also gave some new ideas as well!
Another memorable example of the shifting dungeon is the Clockwork Mansion from the game Dishonored 2; there are levers throughout the house that let you change its layout to access specific rooms and passages to get to the assassination target's workshop.
Great video series Seth! A couple of comments from my personal experience. 1. When it comes to foreshadowing traps you can include some traps that are broken near the start of the dungeon. For example the player steps on a flag stone, and dust shoots out of a hole in the wall, but it's so old the dart doesn't fire. Now the players know they are in an area with traps without anyone getting hurt. Some games even include a percentile chance of traps being broken in their rules if that's your kinda thing. 2. I think riddle doors can work great for optional content. Like an extra treasure room, or even an alternate entrance to a dungeon. As long as not being able to solve them won't stop the entire adventure. They also work great in Open Gaming Table / West Marches style games where lots of different groups are investigating the same areas over and over. Maybe the first group can't figure out The Riddle of The Black Door, but another group hears about it in the adventure logs, and goes back with the answer.
A buddy of mine once did a gag where there was a trap that sprayed you with flaming oil, but it was so old and decayed that all it did was squirt you with some oil, and we could see the ignitor had malfunctioned. Then we hit another, getting sprayed again. We laughed, but then hit the third one that did ignite, and then also lit the oil from the first 2 traps that we never cleaned off ourselves.
4:17 In a D&D 3.5 Eberron campaign, I was a player and the DM was a co-worker. We were both software engineers. I was playing the "book guy" Wizard, and had to decrypt something. So he gave me an encrypted message and expected me to write a program to determine the original message. I think in very specific cases like that, where a player's knowledge can be a metaphor for a PC's, and it's intended for just that PC, it can work. It seems similar to a (possibly apocryphal) story I heard about a monolingual Spanish-speaking student who had just moved to the US and wanted to join a D&D game. The group just declared "Spanish is Elvish", she made an Elf, and another player who spoke Spanish made a character who could speak Elvish. Done and done.
The "Spanish as Elvish" was something posted to Reddit a couple of years back. The game was an open table at a library, and there was one kid who spoke both, and served as translator both in game and out.
Great stuff thanks! I like to use traps as a solution to get over an obstacle. Like a corridor that clearly has spears from the walls that would stab anyone going through, but now the floor is collapsed so players could trigger the trap to now climb over the spears to get past.
Thanks for the excellent series. Learning with 5th edition D&D means I just haven't been able to explore a lot of these concepts at all. But it really has put me off running premade dungeons in the past when I notice that many of these things haven't been accounted for at all (apart from that they made sure the stairs lined up at least...)
22:34 Well, dang. I was NOT expecting the relatively obscure MMORPG Mabinogi to cameo in this video presentation about designing dungeons for tabletop role-playing games, but here we are. If I'm not mistaken, this image depicts -the entrance to Ciar Dungeon- the Hard Mode dungeon entrance for either Alby or Ciar Dungeon. In Mabinogi, the entrances to dungeons are altars to the goddess upon which you must sacrifice an item in order to be transported to the interior. That could be an interesting dungeon mechanic in its own right, I bet.
500xp. My idea for the ledge: The remains of an adventurer. Near him is a bag of gold, 50ft of rope and a journal. Within the journal, he writes about his regret for not learning to tie better knots, lamentations about how the fall broke his back, and how he wishes he could somehow get his treasure to his wife and daughter and move them away from the Village of Orlane before things get worse. The last few pages are prayers to the Goddess that the gold somehow finds its way to them.
I am a broadband cable internet installer. And you squirrel analogy made me chuckle. Just cause I can't count the times a customer has had issues with their internet all because a squirrel was up on the pole and chewed into our drop (the cable heading to the house), and now the customer has issues. And all I could think is some alien streaming their favorite show and all the sudden the player characters push buttons and mess up the aliens signal
Some advice I recall from a D&D book recommended thinking about what the players can and can't do and working the dungeon environment to enhance certain threats. If they don't have access to flight or wall walking or the like, a dungeon built by a beholder could be pretty challenging. They're fairly powerful, paranoid and intelligent, so they'll make good use of their ability to fly to protect themselves. Alternately, if the PCs are in a maze and don't have passwall or teleport, something that can make it difficult is if it is prowled by displacer beasts or blink dogs. Maybe the thing the party is after is in a room watched over by a brass golem, but the room is open to fumaroles that spew a thick sulphurous gas that is occasionally ignited by a lava spout. The golem is immune to the poison, fire and oppressive heat, making it much more dangerous for the players to take on.
In the manga Dungeon Meshi (or Delicious in Dungeon as localized in english) there is actually a neat trick that the main characters found in the dungeon's fountains, where small pieces of carved unicorn horn was used in the fountains' statues to make the water safe for drinking. After one of the characters accidentally tapped the ivory with the horn of a bicorn (evil unicorn, effectively), it neutralized the enchantment and revealed that the dungeon's water actually came from this disgusting muddy bile that most likely came from the bottom of the ocean. The manga typically focuses more on the monsters and how the food chain works in the dungeon, but it is filled with moments of brilliance and small flairs like that which make the world feel lived in.
...I ran a one-shot based on the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark. It was really funny when the players made the connection as soon as the boulder came out of the ceiling. It was even funnier when they came out intact and met the smarmy sun elf with an army of kobold archers waiting outside to collect the gold idol from inside, and remembered that "Aw, crap, this was in the movie, too..." And then the breakneck dash through the forest to get to the wagon and scarper to safety. They all survived, but the whole mad dash and chase scenario was not something they were used to. Next campaign I set up will have more cliffhangers like that, really...
We played dungeon repo men once. It was our job to break in, set off or disarm the traps, and change the locks when the residents defaulted on their mortgages.
So I am interested that the argument at 6:30 about Player cleverness vs Character Intelligence seems to be condradicting a point made in an earlier video about Player charisma vs Character charisma and the need to roll dice instead of simply rollplay.
Sure. In that video, I said the player comes up with the plan/approach, and the dice determine how well the character pulls it off, and I don't like the player approach of, "I roll for the solution without me having to think about it". In this video, I said... the same thing. Player comes up with the approach, dice determine how well the character pulls that off.
My issue is always balancing the effects of the trap with the players' chances of finding them. So I tend to go for "Impediment" traps these days. Webs, cages, stuff that separates or holds one or more players while something then attacks, causing the party to decide whether to rescue their friends or fight the attackers. One of the biggest problems that traps can create in a game is when your players hit a few death traps, and then revert to the old "Ten Foot Pole" checking everything every ten feet movement rates of OD&D... I bought every copy of Grimtooth's back in the day. Not to use... just for the sheer imagination those Flying Buffalo psychos put into that stuff. Some of the most beautiful traps you could ever imagine... but were just crazy levels of deadly. The "magic telescope" that contained a spring loaded dagger was masterful in its simplicity... and lethality. Every so often I read them again and try and find a way to use a couple of them... but many of them are just SO lethal, any mistake the players make can lead to TPK. And players never seem to appreciate the level of creative thought that went into wiping them out in 30 seconds flat. Back in the 80s when players went through PCs like they changed their socks, they may have laughed at the occasional character losing arms and legs to door guillotines or getting crushed by rocks when they realise the corridor they are trying to run down to escape the wraiths that want to eat all their levels, is actually a treadmill connected by cogs to a mechanism that draws back the ceiling and dumps 1000's of tonnes of rock them... but not any more...
I'm not a big fan of Insta-Death Traps. If a trap is lethal, I prefer it be multi-stage, Such as setting off a Trap and now a Threat, like the walls start closing in. The "Whoops. You failed to find the Trap and now you're dead," lost its fun for me ages ago. It's just anticlimactic. Having a Trap create a deadly situation and now they're scrambling to get out of it is way more fun for everyone. I love your mention of difficult choices. The "You can save your friend OR get the treasure before it falls into the lava," or "You can save your friend OR defend yourself against this badguy," creates a lot of tension. It's so simple but effective.
Some other ways to use dungeons since you know we'd add some: An exploration dungeon where there is no pressure on to do something in it, just curiosity. Maybe a small part of it mattered but there is a lot more to it. It could be your players are gifted a keep but the myriad tunnels below haven't been explored so you might want to keep them sealed for safety. The happy fun ball in Critical Role season 2 comes to mind. An educational dungeon is like a test dungeon but supports learning. It may teach important lore in a way that characters need to show understanding to progress. Or it may serve as a tutorial of sorts for new players to learn how to use their abilities with the group. Definitely not something to use often though so as not to be controlling or patronising. I'll also say in terms of puzzles and such things needing player knowledge that I disagree somewhat. There is nothing wrong with making a player, rather than the character, feel powerful. If you're playing with a group of musicians music puzzles can be fun. If you've got players learning a language lean into it. If a civilization valued something like math highly it would probably play an element in navigating their defences. The important thing is sharing the spotlight. Even general puzzles can be exclusionary of those that struggle to think that way. Also, if the knowledge is wildly against character, it can be jarring as well for immersion
Second watch through this video, copious notes to really take both parts in... and it wasn't until I watched to the last minute... I realized... there were no NPC's!!!! Loved the skit, can't believe I didn't notice they were not there. Guess that is a testament to how information dense these two videos were. Much love SS
I forget where I found this trick, but I remember reading about a room where there's a large pond or lake taking up most of the room, with a fishing pole setup at the water's egg. The appearance of the fishing line suggests that there's something caught on the line. If PCs pick up the fishing pole to try and reel it in, a spring below their feet launches them into the air. If the PC releases the pole as they fly into the air, then they fall back down. But if they hold onto the pole, the line remains taught, and the PC is sent arcing into the water.
Making traps make sense reminds me of my "kobold height check" a load bearing beam weakened and soaked in kerosene putting a lit flame too close to it causes a burning cave in.
Great stuff, Seth! I'm not a big fan of traps in games, and I tend to use them very sparingly and then only in situations where a trap has a practical value.
Another good way to foreshadow traps is, in older, more decrepit dungeons or in ones that newer inhabitants have moved in recently, have already disabled or triggered traps. For example if the dungeon will have magical statues that breathe fire, perhaps there is a destroyed statue and a large burn mark on the opposite wall. It clearly identifies that something is here, but the players don't know yet what it is, because it has already been dealt with by someone prior. Then when they advance further in and see a statue conveniently placed, they might suspect it is a live version of whatever trap they saw evidence of. Sort of a variant on "have the players see it obliterate someone first hand".
1:10 - Aw. I was expecting an Admiral Akbar drop in ... or perhaps he took up tabletop in his retirement and is now GM Akbar. 7:20 - One thing you can always do is let them succeed, but succeed badly. For instance if you have to tell them about the pillar, and that it rotates, and about the torches, then when they turn it they turn it the wrong way and trigger an actual trap. Maybe the floor opens up and they fall in to a cell. They take some damage and need to bust out, but they're where they wanted to be. 34:44 - Oop! You scooped me!
I tend to run into the opposite problem of "my character is much smarter than me. Can I just roll it?" I tend to run into "I figured it out but my character would never piece this together" frustration. Then you're sitting there waiting for the smart characters to puzzle it out while you sit there annoyed because Grug love axe
That's part of the roleplay aspect. Perhaps Grug doesn't realize there is a switch behind a brick in the wall, but gets bored of the nerds trying to figure out the puzzle, and leans against the brick to take a nap. Suddenly, the door opens!
Any functional human being (or pseudo human analogue) has the capacity for flashes of inspiration; roleplay it until you start to feel frustrated and then ask the GM if you can offer some OC insights to the other players… Then again, if you’re maxed on strength and constitution because you used intelligence as a dump stat maybe don’t get too annoyed :-)
@@thomasbecker9676 Like the greedy thieves in movies that set of the trap because their trying to pry the gold plaque off the wall or the gem from a dragon's eye statue.
Pass a note to the player of the smartest character with your solution, and let him get the glory. Party gets past the obstacle, smart guy character gets the win, you'll definitely get some kudos from your fellow players for your help: everybody wins!
Part 1 came at a perfect time. I was about to design a big dungeon for the next few sessions when it came out. But then tonight's session happened, and the PCs are now going in a completely different direction. Oh well. Gives me more time to design a dungeon for the climax.
Good video! A lot of info and ideas! I love the way you cut into obstacles/puzzles/traps/hazards...Although I think obstacles, puzzles and hazards are different from traps from a design point of view. My 2 cents : IMO, obstacles is the broad category in which they all fall. Traps are made of trigger+effect+reset (PCs may detect trigger or effect), and are constructed with an intention in mind (by the “builder”): alert, slow, hinder, kill... Detecting and circumventing the trap is very satisfactory for the players. Puzzles procure the PLAYERS with a challenge. And I strongly think every piece should be visible and clear or made clear after focused actions by the PCs (signs and feedbacks are very important to avoid frustration). Puzzles have (in most cases) only one solution (decipher the code! Pull levers in the right order!). Riddles are cool if you playtest them first with "your other friends". There are ways to design them that makes them not that difficult or random :)
Also try to have multi - purpose traps. My favorites are wind gusts that let you be blown somewhere. Like sure they might originally blow you onto spike filled wall or ceiling. But if you disable it, they let you say speed up your escape by getting blown in wall you removed the spears from, or let you use like hang glider to escape, after you have blown up the ceiling. Just make sure that the traps are not a hit point tax. It gets kinda old.
I'm going too be applying this to a semi busted combat zone apartment for an upcoming Cyberpunk Red mission. I can turn a "hazard" (busted up unstable building) into a trap by having a damaged floor that's about to give out dropping someone down a floor (or two not sure). I personally like things that aren't an immediate death trap but separates the party to be vulnerable to something else: in this case the Boostergangers using it as a temporary place to hang out know they're in the building and might jump them when the Edgerunners are in a disadvantageous position trying get back together... Either way this videos have been helpful, thank you!
That was from some meme that popped up on Facebook or Twitter a while back. I found it funny and figured I'd eventually find a video to use it in (I have a large collection of weird and funny pictures for eventual videos). No clue where it originally came from.
An idea about a per trap basis for characters. Anyone with a positive Intelligence modifier gets the same # of DM clear answers given AFTER investigation. This allows for players who have difficulty with such things a much wider berth.
I have given the Indy Light trap some thought over the years also. I have explained it away to myself with "the light was blinding you to the trip wire which was the real trigger, but even with out this; light coming in is only going to happen during daylight hours so this trap does not work or trips every night?
A favourite trap* of mine is a flint golem on a bridge above a pit of boiling wax: striking the golem with a metal weapon makes enough of a spark that the air ignites * using Grimtooth's definition (and trap) here
28:15 PRIMITIVE LIGHT TRIGGER EXPLAINED: The trigger is activated by a two tray scale balance in an unseen closed chamber. The chamber is inhabited by a colony of bugs that don't like light. The oculus (window) normally illuminated one of the trays. The other tray is illuminated with a different window. When the light is blocked, the insects swarm onto the shaded tray, it is tipped over triggering the spring. The trap is reset by the action of a water wheel powered by the frequent rain. Thank you for your applause.
Explain how the beam is always hitting the tray. The sun moves quite a lot. Not just hour by hour but day by day. A trap like that would only work for a couple hours every few weeks. That's before we even get to cloud cover that accompanies the frequent rains. The real answer is that it's not sunlight. Up above and to the side of the dungeon passage is a little room where a guy (we'll call him Ricky) sits in a folding chair peering through a little window into the dungeon hall. The white florescent light behind him casts a non-moving white beam into the hall. That's what tipped off Indy. The sun was too high to be casting a beam like that, so he knew it was a Ricky Window. Sticking his hand into the light beam didn't cause he Trap to activate. What caused it was Indy stuck his hand into Ricky's field of vision (which was illuminated by the light beam) and Ricky pulled the Spear Launcher Lever.
The Matrix-level existential crisis that’s gonna hit Jack later when he realizes he came in wearing the helmet only to see the same helmet already on the shelf as background dressing
Considering his name is "Jack the NPC," I think he's perfectly aware of the fact that he's not real.
19:10 so *that’s* why that Doom 2 level is named “tricks and traps”
one of the Goblin Slayer novels has the adventurer's guild create a dungeon for new adventurers to challenge, which led to the main characters designing it. then they accidentally linked up to ancient caves, with a real monster in it, and a novice went into the caves so the challenge was rushing in to rescue them... preferably without letting anyone know about the mistake. made for a memorable story - a dungeon in a dungeon, with one dungeon master trying to navigate the other dungeon
That's f***ing genius.
Reminds me of thief 1 and 2
In our games, there are very rarely dungeons. But I have little something-something coming up for my group, which may contain more-than-small amounts of dungeon. So these videos have come at _just_ the right time. So thank you!
Hope you all have fun with it.
@@SSkorkowsky Hey Seth long time fan here, thank you for always having great and knowable content to share with us and keep up the amazing work. Also do you have any interest in showing off OSR stuff or different rule sets that try to capture the old school style of DND?
Not really. Nothing against the systems themselves, I've heard a lot of great things about them. But I'm a very hard sell on D&D-style games anymore. The past few years I've gravitated more toward modern and sci-fi settings over medieval fantasy. I also prefer Skill-Based systems far more than Level-Based ones.
@@SSkorkowsky How about a video on your opinion alone and why it is that way?
I have one video covering why I prefer Skill-Based over Level-Based systems. My GM Burnout video covers the time when after 18 years of D&D I was done, so we switched to Cyberpunk and I got my groove back. As far as why I prefer modern and sci-fi settings, well, I simply prefer modern and sci-fi settings. That's the reason my novels are set in the present day.
I did a raiders of the Lost ark puzzle floor trap, but the PCs found an alternate way in, so they discovered the floor when they were already past it. They definitely found the access hallway, and found that half the crossbow bolts had ancient poison darts, and half of them had modern ones. "Yay, we got sweet poison darts ..... Oh crap someone else is in here!"
That's great foreshadowing.
An open statement I give my players when facing puzzles, traps, or other obstacles is this:
"There is no entrance without an exit. I promise you, you either have the answer, or the access to it."
I feel like that should be at the start of any session or campaign, just as a general note. I feel like players need to go out of their way (knowingly) before getting stuck.
"There is no entrance without an exit. I promise you, you either have the answer, or the access to it." - I'm using this as a chat up line.
@@simonholmes6473 Stop right there. Your dungeon or mine?
@@MonkeyJedi99 I guess we'd better.......roll for initiative 😀
The real treasure was the traps we found along the way.
If you are allowed to disassemble it, and take it with you, or at least the magic parts with you.
With clever enough players it absolutely is, lol
And vice versa - sometimes greed is the real enemy.
Nah, the real treasure was hidden by the traps you didn't find.
I don't know. This sounds a bit like a trick to me!
Now I really want to play a "Dude, Where's My Car?" dungeon. Thanks Seth 🤣
That would be Lo-Pan's lair in Big Trouble in Little China.
Had to read comments to see if anyone else saw that. ;)
Sweet!
I ran the dungeon from Indiana Jones.
My interpretation of the light trap was that there was some kind of light sensitive plant bladder that shrank under sunlight, triggering the trap.
Naturally, the trap stays open during the hours of darkness.
I did almost the reverse, I triggered the trap with a fine filament (spider silk for example) which was only visible while in that shaft of light; it isn’t the light itself which is the trigger; but the light which allowed Indy (and my players) to locate and avoid the trigger (and in terms of Raiders itself, in the depths of a rainforest, the light was probably very lucky; no trees, undergrowth or cloud cover as they went through).
@@LoneEagle2061 ooh, nice take.
In my 3rd ed D&D days my players raided a Thieves Guild hideout. Deep inside they got to a training room full of bell covered pick pocketing dummies and walls lined with various locked chests, etc. The fight goes badly for the thieves in that room so the quartermaster bolts down one of these two doors in the wall. Most of my group follows him only to discover it’s a series of trapped rooms used for trap training, with each small room more difficult and dangerous than the last. The quartermaster knows all the tricks and moves through it quickly and safely, but the players get caught up in issues.
About 5 rounds later the quartermaster busts out of the second door having completed the U shaped trap course and is immediately tackled by the Druid in bear form. That particular player looked at the first two rooms of the course, turned around and walked out and readied an action on the second door. He was smarter than the average bear.
The shifting dungeon is a really cool idea. Do you draw 4 different dungeon shapes, so that if they hit the button in the 3rd corner, you flip over to your 3rd dungeon shape.
It was like I made 1 dungeon, then left empty space for rooms I could use later, then made it so that each version shared portions or walls with other configurations. So a single wall might be for a hallway, then a huge room, then the opposite side of the wall would be a different hallway, then back to a hallway that had a 'T' intersection. Other things might be the columns in a room might stay in the same place, but are now braces for a hall, or the room would return, but now the columns were a different shape and one wall was concave. Then there were rooms that never changed, but were cut off from all but 1 of the configurations. For some incomprehensible reason, I drew my GM map all on the same page with different colors of ink, so it looked like some sort of madman's scribblings.
When the PCs entered certain rooms and did X (usually some puzzle or something) stone doors would close, then they'd hear the shifting, then that door or a different one would open them to release them onto the next "level".
Reminds me of a dungeon I did with math, each room had different pedestals with a set of numbers and symbols carved on them, and the players could set them into specific equations to move into specific numbered room (like X + Y, and they could chance the X, the Y and the + into other options already carved in the pedestal).
There were a potential 30ish rooms, some with traps, others with treasures, most of them with monsters (a monster mash) and a couple with keys for the last door. A message written in blood gave the numbers of the actual rooms of importance. The idea was that the entire place was a wizard's idea of a zoo, different rooms being cells for exotic beasts, plus a few with resources to deal with them (food, tools to capture, etc) and the main one being his office.
Sadly the math proved annoying to my players and the dungeon dragged on for too long (two full sessions), and it didn't help that I messed up one of the equations and there was no way to reach one of the key rooms. Really bothered me since I put a lot of effort into every equation and permutation to make sure it was possible to do, and I missed one.
Puffin Forest has an episode where he discusses a shifting dungeon that was run during AL, but I don't recall the details.
Can I just say THANK YOU for not making a “DND is collapsing” click bait video? It feels like this channel is the last refuge on TH-cam for sane GM content
Despite years of running dungeons, this (traps) is the part that I most struggle with, so thanks!
You sly son of a gun. I see you sneaking in that Deluxe Limited Edition Blade Runner core rulebook at the end! Still waiting on mine in the mail. Looking forward to future videos about that. 👍
I was a bit sceptical of your categorisation (especially between traps and hazards), but the point about repetition really clarified it for me. Drawing conscious distinctions makes it a lot easier to build in conscious variation and avoid unconscious repetition. Also, your point about a trap not necessarily catching the person triggering it reminded me of my great-uncle, who apparently died in the Italy campaign when the guy walking in front of him stepped on a mine. That guy lost his leg(s), but my great-uncle died.
The wisdom you spew in these and your reviews is something that would typically be behind a paywall or subscription. Top tier!
Thank you very much.
Dael Kingsmill of @MonarchsFactory has a video on traps that contains some additional classification on traps (specifically) that I've found useful - by intent:
Deter, Delay, Detain, and Destroy (ms. Kingsmill used a slightly different wording, but I like this alliteration).
In addition there is naturally also the alarm.
So glad the second part is already here!
You know, Seth, you are one of only two TTRPG youtubers I regularly watch and rewatch. You and Matt Colville both have great content with lots of useful tips and information, and I appreciate the work you do.
Seth! It is so funny that you used the example for the same „Riddle“ that was part of the „Seven more Game-Master Sins“ - To eager to assist sketch - Loved that Part, where The Gang did not have to do anything really ❤
Regarding riddles they can be fun in more role play/social ways than as actual puzzles- I think the best riddle based puzzle I’ve dealt with as a player ended with our characters getting into a heated debate with the riddle-giver over how the answer didn’t really make sense, and really ours was better.
Something I learned a while back from The Angry GM is the "Click Rule". Wherein if the PCs fail the rolls to perceive a trap or hazard, they might be given a visual or auditory (or olfactory, if it's something like poison on a doorknob or a gas leak) cue immediately before it goes off. Like stepping on a pressure plate until it goes "click".
The player is given an opportunity to state what their character's split second reaction is. Examples include diving a certain direction, holding up their shield, holding their breath, etc. Depending on their decision, they may get Advantage or Disadvantage on the resulting saving throw. Or else negate the trap entirely. It gives the players agency in their situation, rather than the trap being a binary pass-fail depending on dice rolls.
I'd love an entire series of you discussing how Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark is the perfect TTRPG movie. I have used this movie countless times to explain mechanics, dungeon design, skill checks, failing forward, etc to players and dungeon masters, so much so, I practically have the movie memorized line for line.
Rewards! The happiness of the players ends up being a reward for the GM! Glad you put this in the video, I'm working on a dungeon right now and it definitely gave me a great idea.
Big fan of your videos, great content and in a really good format. You also inspired me to both try Call of Cthulhu and to do it as a Keeper!
I like the stargate example. Especially since one of the early episodes was literally an example of sending someone through the gate before understanding how it worked and them being stranded for decades.
It could be worse. You could have dialed a good location, but the team died because their marionette strings were cut by the gate.
I love that the hobby has Advocates like you who really understand the elements of play, and are able to pass along the knowledge to make them all happen.
Many, many years ago, back when I was playing Tunnels and Trolls, our GM had a book called Grimtooths Traps, some of those were nasty.
This came along at a perfect time. Season 1 of our game didn't really have a ton of dungeons or dungeon-like aspects, but for Season 2 I really wanted to go with a globe trotting Indiana Jones -esque story which means lots of tombs and catacombs *cough* dungeons *cough*. This'll be a major help!
Literally just created a massive eldritch dungeon crawl for my first Miskatonic Repository scenario. Playtesting this weekend to see how it goes and then making tweaks after with the critiques.
Tons of great info here, Seth. Thanks!
This one is one of the best videos until now. Thanks for the content.
I like "puzzles" that occur DURING a battle... that maybe you have to push those pillars but there is also a fight going on, so people have to decide what to spend their actions on!
How do you avoid players getting frustrated?
@@thomasbecker9676 oh I did not want to write too much, but by puzzle here I meant something that is very simple or maybe can be solved by trial and error.
On the whole I tend to avoid puzzles as my players dont like them. But really simple stuff... sometimes.
Traps/puzzles/hazards are always more interesting when they factor in to a battle - even more so if one side (which could be the heroes if they're clever) draws the fighting to them deliberately.
@@richmcgee434 That's how Kobolds should be used by the DM.
That outro was great, good job.
Just wanted you to know Seth as a GM I really have been enjoying many of your videos the past 2 weeks especially your game scenario reviews. Your aliens review is what got me to pick up everything available to them. Keep up the great content creation I look forward to your future videos
The adventure "The sinister secret of Saltmarsh" can also be found in the 5e adventure compilation book "Ghosts of Saltmarsh"! That's were I first got to know it! I also loved the haunted house map a lot!
Unfortunately, my players were too high a level to run the haunted house in a satisfying way, so I decided to spice it up a bit!
How do you spice up a house which the players are to enter? Well, I stole a lot of ideas from the "Home Alone" movies, added a high level arcane trickster as a villain, and added a bunch of suitably improvised traps!
My players eventually figured out the inspiration after I managed to dump a chest full of books on their characters from the second floor. She went "hey, are we Harry and Marv?!". Groans and laughs were had.
10/10 got to really put my players through the ringer with a bunch of really weird and funny traps. Will never forget the paladin falling through two floors and into the basement whilst on his mount!
It must have been a trip to turn your players into the Wet Bandits!!!
Mmm. Traps, hazards, obstacles, puzzles.... and very good tips on how to use them ❤
I can't help but be kinda proud of myself as you give great tips and I realized I use most of them already. Ran a "oneshot" (took 3 or 4 sessions) for a dungeon where it was supposed to feel open so I put three demon skulls to function as a keys in order to get to final boss. It hit me how much of your advice I already use when you said scavenger hunt and thought of this. Great video an though I took a moment to take pride in my work you also gave some new ideas as well!
As always you never cease to amaze me. This video was way more than helpful, it's damn inspirational. Very very useful information. Thank you
Great video, loved the outro as well, cracked me up as an unexpected treat at the end.
I love this channel. Always something great to watch.
Another memorable example of the shifting dungeon is the Clockwork Mansion from the game Dishonored 2; there are levers throughout the house that let you change its layout to access specific rooms and passages to get to the assassination target's workshop.
Great video series Seth! A couple of comments from my personal experience.
1. When it comes to foreshadowing traps you can include some traps that are broken near the start of the dungeon. For example the player steps on a flag stone, and dust shoots out of a hole in the wall, but it's so old the dart doesn't fire. Now the players know they are in an area with traps without anyone getting hurt. Some games even include a percentile chance of traps being broken in their rules if that's your kinda thing.
2. I think riddle doors can work great for optional content. Like an extra treasure room, or even an alternate entrance to a dungeon. As long as not being able to solve them won't stop the entire adventure. They also work great in Open Gaming Table / West Marches style games where lots of different groups are investigating the same areas over and over. Maybe the first group can't figure out The Riddle of The Black Door, but another group hears about it in the adventure logs, and goes back with the answer.
A buddy of mine once did a gag where there was a trap that sprayed you with flaming oil, but it was so old and decayed that all it did was squirt you with some oil, and we could see the ignitor had malfunctioned. Then we hit another, getting sprayed again. We laughed, but then hit the third one that did ignite, and then also lit the oil from the first 2 traps that we never cleaned off ourselves.
@@SSkorkowsky Lol! Sounds like a lot of fun.
4:17 In a D&D 3.5 Eberron campaign, I was a player and the DM was a co-worker. We were both software engineers. I was playing the "book guy" Wizard, and had to decrypt something. So he gave me an encrypted message and expected me to write a program to determine the original message. I think in very specific cases like that, where a player's knowledge can be a metaphor for a PC's, and it's intended for just that PC, it can work.
It seems similar to a (possibly apocryphal) story I heard about a monolingual Spanish-speaking student who had just moved to the US and wanted to join a D&D game. The group just declared "Spanish is Elvish", she made an Elf, and another player who spoke Spanish made a character who could speak Elvish. Done and done.
The "Spanish as Elvish" was something posted to Reddit a couple of years back. The game was an open table at a library, and there was one kid who spoke both, and served as translator both in game and out.
@@jeffeppenbach Thanks. Yeah, that was it. Brilliant approach.
Great stuff thanks! I like to use traps as a solution to get over an obstacle. Like a corridor that clearly has spears from the walls that would stab anyone going through, but now the floor is collapsed so players could trigger the trap to now climb over the spears to get past.
This is such great content & advice. I’d love to see this written up in a supplement.
Whenever you release a video, I know that day is gonna be a good one! Keep up the good work Seth, these are fantastic! :D
Excellent advice Seth. 🧙♂️
Such a concise and lovely follow-up ! Cannot wait for more!
Whoa, somebody notify Fred Jones!
He won't want to miss this one.
I really appreciate your videos of this kind, system-agnostic advice.
Awesome info dump in two parts! Thank you Mr. Skorkowsky. :)
Top notch video series. I’ll be referring to these for years. Thank you
Thanks for the excellent series. Learning with 5th edition D&D means I just haven't been able to explore a lot of these concepts at all. But it really has put me off running premade dungeons in the past when I notice that many of these things haven't been accounted for at all (apart from that they made sure the stairs lined up at least...)
22:34
Well, dang. I was NOT expecting the relatively obscure MMORPG Mabinogi to cameo in this video presentation about designing dungeons for tabletop role-playing games, but here we are. If I'm not mistaken, this image depicts -the entrance to Ciar Dungeon- the Hard Mode dungeon entrance for either Alby or Ciar Dungeon. In Mabinogi, the entrances to dungeons are altars to the goddess upon which you must sacrifice an item in order to be transported to the interior. That could be an interesting dungeon mechanic in its own right, I bet.
500xp. My idea for the ledge: The remains of an adventurer. Near him is a bag of gold, 50ft of rope and a journal. Within the journal, he writes about his regret for not learning to tie better knots, lamentations about how the fall broke his back, and how he wishes he could somehow get his treasure to his wife and daughter and move them away from the Village of Orlane before things get worse. The last few pages are prayers to the Goddess that the gold somehow finds its way to them.
I love it!
*I'm stealing it.
Oh man... that actually managed to make me feel sad for the poor npc 😢
I love these deeper dive videos
Awesome! Love the specific examples. I'm borrowing and excited to spice up the dungeon crawl I am cooking up.
Yay!!! Finally Jack the NPC!!! I missed him so much!!!
So I attended a puzzle workshop at PAX unplugged, and they also covered a lot of the same things! Great Video Seth!
I am a broadband cable internet installer. And you squirrel analogy made me chuckle. Just cause I can't count the times a customer has had issues with their internet all because a squirrel was up on the pole and chewed into our drop (the cable heading to the house), and now the customer has issues. And all I could think is some alien streaming their favorite show and all the sudden the player characters push buttons and mess up the aliens signal
Thanks again, great ideas, have a safe and Happy New Year brother 😎🤘🍻
Nice, I love the classic Loadbearing Boss gimmick.
Some advice I recall from a D&D book recommended thinking about what the players can and can't do and working the dungeon environment to enhance certain threats.
If they don't have access to flight or wall walking or the like, a dungeon built by a beholder could be pretty challenging. They're fairly powerful, paranoid and intelligent, so they'll make good use of their ability to fly to protect themselves. Alternately, if the PCs are in a maze and don't have passwall or teleport, something that can make it difficult is if it is prowled by displacer beasts or blink dogs. Maybe the thing the party is after is in a room watched over by a brass golem, but the room is open to fumaroles that spew a thick sulphurous gas that is occasionally ignited by a lava spout. The golem is immune to the poison, fire and oppressive heat, making it much more dangerous for the players to take on.
In the manga Dungeon Meshi (or Delicious in Dungeon as localized in english) there is actually a neat trick that the main characters found in the dungeon's fountains, where small pieces of carved unicorn horn was used in the fountains' statues to make the water safe for drinking. After one of the characters accidentally tapped the ivory with the horn of a bicorn (evil unicorn, effectively), it neutralized the enchantment and revealed that the dungeon's water actually came from this disgusting muddy bile that most likely came from the bottom of the ocean.
The manga typically focuses more on the monsters and how the food chain works in the dungeon, but it is filled with moments of brilliance and small flairs like that which make the world feel lived in.
While I really enjoyed the content I have to say... Best stinger to date. well done sir.
Always helpful! "Dude, where's my car?"
...I ran a one-shot based on the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
It was really funny when the players made the connection as soon as the boulder came out of the ceiling.
It was even funnier when they came out intact and met the smarmy sun elf with an army of kobold archers waiting outside to collect the gold idol from inside, and remembered that "Aw, crap, this was in the movie, too..."
And then the breakneck dash through the forest to get to the wagon and scarper to safety.
They all survived, but the whole mad dash and chase scenario was not something they were used to.
Next campaign I set up will have more cliffhangers like that, really...
We played dungeon repo men once.
It was our job to break in, set off or disarm the traps, and change the locks when the residents defaulted on their mortgages.
So I am interested that the argument at 6:30 about Player cleverness vs Character Intelligence seems to be condradicting a point made in an earlier video about Player charisma vs Character charisma and the need to roll dice instead of simply rollplay.
Sure. In that video, I said the player comes up with the plan/approach, and the dice determine how well the character pulls it off, and I don't like the player approach of, "I roll for the solution without me having to think about it".
In this video, I said... the same thing. Player comes up with the approach, dice determine how well the character pulls that off.
Thanks for this! Very insightful 😊
My issue is always balancing the effects of the trap with the players' chances of finding them.
So I tend to go for "Impediment" traps these days. Webs, cages, stuff that separates or holds one or more players while something then attacks, causing the party to decide whether to rescue their friends or fight the attackers.
One of the biggest problems that traps can create in a game is when your players hit a few death traps, and then revert to the old "Ten Foot Pole" checking everything every ten feet movement rates of OD&D...
I bought every copy of Grimtooth's back in the day.
Not to use... just for the sheer imagination those Flying Buffalo psychos put into that stuff. Some of the most beautiful traps you could ever imagine... but were just crazy levels of deadly.
The "magic telescope" that contained a spring loaded dagger was masterful in its simplicity... and lethality.
Every so often I read them again and try and find a way to use a couple of them... but many of them are just SO lethal, any mistake the players make can lead to TPK. And players never seem to appreciate the level of creative thought that went into wiping them out in 30 seconds flat.
Back in the 80s when players went through PCs like they changed their socks, they may have laughed at the occasional character losing arms and legs to door guillotines or getting crushed by rocks when they realise the corridor they are trying to run down to escape the wraiths that want to eat all their levels, is actually a treadmill connected by cogs to a mechanism that draws back the ceiling and dumps 1000's of tonnes of rock them... but not any more...
I'm not a big fan of Insta-Death Traps. If a trap is lethal, I prefer it be multi-stage, Such as setting off a Trap and now a Threat, like the walls start closing in. The "Whoops. You failed to find the Trap and now you're dead," lost its fun for me ages ago. It's just anticlimactic. Having a Trap create a deadly situation and now they're scrambling to get out of it is way more fun for everyone.
I love your mention of difficult choices. The "You can save your friend OR get the treasure before it falls into the lava," or "You can save your friend OR defend yourself against this badguy," creates a lot of tension. It's so simple but effective.
Some other ways to use dungeons since you know we'd add some:
An exploration dungeon where there is no pressure on to do something in it, just curiosity. Maybe a small part of it mattered but there is a lot more to it. It could be your players are gifted a keep but the myriad tunnels below haven't been explored so you might want to keep them sealed for safety. The happy fun ball in Critical Role season 2 comes to mind.
An educational dungeon is like a test dungeon but supports learning. It may teach important lore in a way that characters need to show understanding to progress. Or it may serve as a tutorial of sorts for new players to learn how to use their abilities with the group. Definitely not something to use often though so as not to be controlling or patronising.
I'll also say in terms of puzzles and such things needing player knowledge that I disagree somewhat. There is nothing wrong with making a player, rather than the character, feel powerful. If you're playing with a group of musicians music puzzles can be fun. If you've got players learning a language lean into it. If a civilization valued something like math highly it would probably play an element in navigating their defences. The important thing is sharing the spotlight. Even general puzzles can be exclusionary of those that struggle to think that way. Also, if the knowledge is wildly against character, it can be jarring as well for immersion
Second watch through this video, copious notes to really take both parts in... and it wasn't until I watched to the last minute... I realized... there were no NPC's!!!! Loved the skit, can't believe I didn't notice they were not there. Guess that is a testament to how information dense these two videos were. Much love SS
I forget where I found this trick, but I remember reading about a room where there's a large pond or lake taking up most of the room, with a fishing pole setup at the water's egg. The appearance of the fishing line suggests that there's something caught on the line. If PCs pick up the fishing pole to try and reel it in, a spring below their feet launches them into the air. If the PC releases the pole as they fly into the air, then they fall back down. But if they hold onto the pole, the line remains taught, and the PC is sent arcing into the water.
Thumbs up for Grimtooth!
Good stuff!
Thanks for sharing
Making traps make sense reminds me of my "kobold height check" a load bearing beam weakened and soaked in kerosene putting a lit flame too close to it causes a burning cave in.
Great stuff, Seth! I'm not a big fan of traps in games, and I tend to use them very sparingly and then only in situations where a trap has a practical value.
Ooooh I was looking forward to this I'm horrible on traps
Another good way to foreshadow traps is, in older, more decrepit dungeons or in ones that newer inhabitants have moved in recently, have already disabled or triggered traps. For example if the dungeon will have magical statues that breathe fire, perhaps there is a destroyed statue and a large burn mark on the opposite wall. It clearly identifies that something is here, but the players don't know yet what it is, because it has already been dealt with by someone prior. Then when they advance further in and see a statue conveniently placed, they might suspect it is a live version of whatever trap they saw evidence of. Sort of a variant on "have the players see it obliterate someone first hand".
For challenge dungeons, Dungeon Magazine ran a series of contest adventures. The PC party was one of a number, competing to win the prize.
The drawings are beautiful🖌
1:10 - Aw. I was expecting an Admiral Akbar drop in ... or perhaps he took up tabletop in his retirement and is now GM Akbar.
7:20 - One thing you can always do is let them succeed, but succeed badly. For instance if you have to tell them about the pillar, and that it rotates, and about the torches, then when they turn it they turn it the wrong way and trigger an actual trap. Maybe the floor opens up and they fall in to a cell. They take some damage and need to bust out, but they're where they wanted to be.
34:44 - Oop! You scooped me!
I tend to run into the opposite problem of "my character is much smarter than me. Can I just roll it?" I tend to run into "I figured it out but my character would never piece this together" frustration. Then you're sitting there waiting for the smart characters to puzzle it out while you sit there annoyed because Grug love axe
That's part of the roleplay aspect. Perhaps Grug doesn't realize there is a switch behind a brick in the wall, but gets bored of the nerds trying to figure out the puzzle, and leans against the brick to take a nap. Suddenly, the door opens!
Any functional human being (or pseudo human analogue) has the capacity for flashes of inspiration; roleplay it until you start to feel frustrated and then ask the GM if you can offer some OC insights to the other players… Then again, if you’re maxed on strength and constitution because you used intelligence as a dump stat maybe don’t get too annoyed :-)
@@thomasbecker9676 Like the greedy thieves in movies that set of the trap because their trying to pry the gold plaque off the wall or the gem from a dragon's eye statue.
@@spacedinosaur8733 Or Short Round standing where Indy told him to stand and accidentally setting off the descending ceiling trap.
Pass a note to the player of the smartest character with your solution, and let him get the glory. Party gets past the obstacle, smart guy character gets the win, you'll definitely get some kudos from your fellow players for your help: everybody wins!
Great stuff, as always.
Any chance of a Rivers of London RPG review ?
Cheers 😁👍
Part 1 came at a perfect time. I was about to design a big dungeon for the next few sessions when it came out. But then tonight's session happened, and the PCs are now going in a completely different direction.
Oh well. Gives me more time to design a dungeon for the climax.
As an old fart DM from the 1970's, let me just say....DEAD ON, 100%. THANK YOU for doing these videos. WELL DONE!!
Good video! A lot of info and ideas! I love the way you cut into obstacles/puzzles/traps/hazards...Although I think obstacles, puzzles and hazards are different from traps from a design point of view. My 2 cents :
IMO, obstacles is the broad category in which they all fall.
Traps are made of trigger+effect+reset (PCs may detect trigger or effect), and are constructed with an intention in mind (by the “builder”): alert, slow, hinder, kill... Detecting and circumventing the trap is very satisfactory for the players.
Puzzles procure the PLAYERS with a challenge. And I strongly think every piece should be visible and clear or made clear after focused actions by the PCs (signs and feedbacks are very important to avoid frustration). Puzzles have (in most cases) only one solution (decipher the code! Pull levers in the right order!).
Riddles are cool if you playtest them first with "your other friends". There are ways to design them that makes them not that difficult or random :)
Hi Seth... your vids make my day
Also try to have multi - purpose traps. My favorites are wind gusts that let you be blown somewhere. Like sure they might originally blow you onto spike filled wall or ceiling. But if you disable it, they let you say speed up your escape by getting blown in wall you removed the spears from, or let you use like hang glider to escape, after you have blown up the ceiling.
Just make sure that the traps are not a hit point tax. It gets kinda old.
I'm going too be applying this to a semi busted combat zone apartment for an upcoming Cyberpunk Red mission.
I can turn a "hazard" (busted up unstable building) into a trap by having a damaged floor that's about to give out dropping someone down a floor (or two not sure). I personally like things that aren't an immediate death trap but separates the party to be vulnerable to something else: in this case the Boostergangers using it as a temporary place to hang out know they're in the building and might jump them when the Edgerunners are in a disadvantageous position trying get back together...
Either way this videos have been helpful, thank you!
11:54 the image on the left is hilarious, where is it from?
That was from some meme that popped up on Facebook or Twitter a while back. I found it funny and figured I'd eventually find a video to use it in (I have a large collection of weird and funny pictures for eventual videos). No clue where it originally came from.
I was on board with you until you suggested using the Grimtooth trap books. The lethality of those traps are legendary.
The traps themselves are often overly lethal and over-complex Rube Goldberg machines, but they do inspire a lot of cool ideas.
An idea about a per trap basis for characters. Anyone with a positive Intelligence modifier gets the same # of DM clear answers given AFTER investigation. This allows for players who have difficulty with such things a much wider berth.
I have given the Indy Light trap some thought over the years also. I have explained it away to myself with "the light was blinding you to the trip wire which was the real trigger, but even with out this; light coming in is only going to happen during daylight hours so this trap does not work or trips every night?
Awesome video with lots of useful stuff! I gotta say...Todd and Jack, playing a game...foreshadowing? Hmmmm.
A favourite trap* of mine is a flint golem on a bridge above a pit of boiling wax: striking the golem with a metal weapon makes enough of a spark that the air ignites
* using Grimtooth's definition (and trap) here
OMG make more of these
Y'know, this inspired me to put a high-tech dungeon into my next sr mission :)
28:15
PRIMITIVE LIGHT TRIGGER EXPLAINED:
The trigger is activated by a two tray scale balance in an unseen closed chamber. The chamber is inhabited by a colony of bugs that don't like light. The oculus (window) normally illuminated one of the trays. The other tray is illuminated with a different window. When the light is blocked, the insects swarm onto the shaded tray, it is tipped over triggering the spring. The trap is reset by the action of a water wheel powered by the frequent rain. Thank you for your applause.
So what happens every night?
Explain how the beam is always hitting the tray. The sun moves quite a lot. Not just hour by hour but day by day. A trap like that would only work for a couple hours every few weeks. That's before we even get to cloud cover that accompanies the frequent rains.
The real answer is that it's not sunlight. Up above and to the side of the dungeon passage is a little room where a guy (we'll call him Ricky) sits in a folding chair peering through a little window into the dungeon hall. The white florescent light behind him casts a non-moving white beam into the hall. That's what tipped off Indy. The sun was too high to be casting a beam like that, so he knew it was a Ricky Window. Sticking his hand into the light beam didn't cause he Trap to activate. What caused it was Indy stuck his hand into Ricky's field of vision (which was illuminated by the light beam) and Ricky pulled the Spear Launcher Lever.
Well, obviously.
So long as the light level is equal on both trays the insects never overbalance the scales. I bet some youtuber could create and demonstrate this.