The whole "and then they betray the party" is why so many of us 1E players went the murderhobo route, once we got into the dungeon at least. At least 80% of hypothetically "friendly" encounters were only pretending to be so to get the drop on the PCs, no matter if it made any sense for the betrayers or not. "No, you can't come with us. Go away now or we'll kill you here and now" was the standard reaction to NPCs. The idea that monsters could be actual people with actual motivations and the ability to genuinely work with the party out of enlightened self-interest was groundbreaking back then.
Yeah, it seems kind of like the sort of thing WotC has with the setting books, a lot of stuff about the locations and then an adventure to start you off there.
@@JohnSmith-qq7fm Yeah. Personally, I'm a fan of this module because getting a pile of hooks and ideas is more valuable to me than stat blocks and boxed text. That said, I can definitely understand why someone who paid for this module would be upset about having to then do most of the gruntwork themselves.
A year or so back I got this manifesto of a comment from a guy saying how much he hated my cringey Jack and The Gang skits, and how I shouldn't take the popularity of my channel as any indicator that anyone actually liked them, because most subscribers merely tolerated them, while I could never know the vast numbers of people who were so turned off by them that they never subscribed. Needless to say, I didn't heed his impassioned advice.
@@SSkorkowsky Ah yes, the “I dislike it so it must be awful” type. I’m glad you ignored him, Seth. I love seeing Jack and the gang when they show up. They add a unique flavor to your content.
Played this in the 80's and thoroughly enjoyed it but also couldn't figure out why we never found the Yuan Ti fortress or cave where they were busy planning the rejuvenation of their lost empire. Each week we said , sure to find them this time. I'm embarrassed to say it wasn't till years later I learnt there was no big group of Yuan Ti in the module. Your commentary has inspired me and I've added in a warehouse and three different Yuan Ti encampments, a giant snake a la Timothy Varley's Wizard Titan Demon series. Also added a few more abandoned temples including one to the Egyptian Crocodile god Sobek buried in the Lake. It's giving my 18 year old self some closure for weeks and weeks of fruitless searching for a final Yuan Ti fortress that just wasn't there.
I played this module in high school, so weird to think that the most memorable part was made up by my dungeon master from a plot hook. I still remember my Samurai and his friends charging into a living temple with the bugbears at our back in order to stop the Yuan ti from summoning a tainted god. I legit assumed that was the main thing in this book.
This was the first major module I set in my game-world in the mid-1980s; I embellished by making a hand-written calligraphic "joke" an "aged" (lightly waved open a candle-flame) parchment saying "Abandon all hope Ye who enter here" where I placed at the entrace location to the module. My players took one look at this prop and promptly decided to leave. It took me many game hours to convince to come back as I had nothing else prepared.
Definitely one for the DIY crowd. Whoever made that list for the magazine must have subscribed to the "module as an inspirational starting point rather than a finished scenario" ideal.
I gotta love how you goofed at the beginning with "68 characters" and, rather than edit that out, kept it in there just because it was a funny slip-up.
@@SSkorkowsky I can remember playing Runequest in the early 80s with 14 people at the table, and there was one night at the FLGS where 22 people turned up to play the store's open Vampire the Masquerade campaign. That last still gives me nightmares. But 68 would be a bit much - unless maybe it was an OSR funnel game where everyone starts with half a dozen or more zero-level PCs and tries to get one playable survivor at the end of the day, like some deranged fantasy version of Paranoia.
Hot damn, I've done 12 character tables before but 68 characters?! Imagine the chorus of responses when you ask them "You enter the room. What would you guys do first?"
"Alright fellas, now that the recap of last week's session is out of the way, the yuan-ti guards charge at you. If I can get everyone to roll initiative we can get everyone's turns lined up for the encounter we'll be having next week. Before we wrap up, I'd like to once again thank Dave for lending us the use of his auditorium for this week's session."
I ran my take on this about a year ago. I took a deconstructed Isle of Dread with the central temple farmed out to a separate volcanic island and dropped the Forbidden City into the central mesa with Tomb of Annalation's Yuan-Ti temple replacing the weak yuan-ti showing in this module. Much Polynesian-themed fun was had by all, and I fully expect the players to travel back to the island sometime as they wanted to explore areas they didn't get to. Yes, the underground is way up there on that list.
The convention "epics" are probably the closest to that you're going to get, being designed to be run through by an entire room full of tables all at once.
Setting I1 in Eberron's southern continent of Xen'drik could be an interesting option. The Forbidden City could've belonged to the Dark Elves or Giants so you'd have some guidance for the city's past. Or move it to the Forgotten Realms' Chult and even place the Tomb of Annihilation inside the city.
after 24 minutes I kept thinking about making a little encounter with sad bullywugs returning from a failed raid on the wizard's tower without weapons or armor. maybe just making a little schedule for when each faction does something would be good enough to flesh it out a bit more
I ran this adventure wayyyy back in the late 80s- my group loved it. Instead of several ways down I combined all and made a gauntlet. Once there they encountered a vampire “queen” that had a necklace of Hide Alignment that wanted the tribal warfare stopped etc etc. it was a fun adventure
It would be fascinating if someone took all those paragraphs and ran with them fully fleshing out each hook and making a complete modern version that acted more like a sourcebook.
Absolutely. If I were WotC I'd be talking to Seth by now about doing precisely that. A hardcover 200 page version updated to 5e (6e?) with modern D&D production values would be flat out awesome.
I’ve done something very much like this for the run of Dwellers I’m doing. I’ve expanded Horan’s area and dropped in several others including a slave pit, a temple of Tsathoggua, a Groaning Spirit in the northern portion of the city, a Step Pyramid (actually shown in the center of the original map) with a Greater Mummy and guarded by an Iron Golem, and swapped out the Pan Lung dragon for a Froghemoth that the Bullywugs offer sacrifices to.
Your criticisms mirror those we had when we first played this back in the early 80s: so much potential left on the table unused. While watching this review, though, something struck me: the Forbidden City itself and the the four continuing adventures outlined at the end would be ideal for conversion and development for Modiphius Conan (not surprisingly, given the source).
Seth: I'm going to tell you about the adventure from the GM and player point-of-view. Seth (as Jack the NPC): And I'm here to give you a break from Seth's yammering face. Oh, if only Dweebles and the others could do that as well.
I remember there being carnivorous apes, a giant hedgehog, and a Yuan-Ti abomination. This is definitely one that's really more of a DM sandbox than anything else.
I always appreciate your AD&D adventure reviews. When I was 13 one of my players gave this to me to run and I remember it being confusing for my young mind; after scaling down the cliffs they started killing mongrelmen until a random encounter killed the party then we switched back to my home brew adventure but I remember that this book had great artwork especially the Tasloi
those 2 sections were the main strength of ToA. I kind of feel that if Dwellers simply had a Yuan-Ti temple detailed in its pages with a big fat aboleth being worshipped as a god (and maybe a passage to the underdark if a DM wants to expand the aboleth thing) then a lot of its problems would be solved. Isle of Dread (almost) managed this.
My very first DM used Dwellers of the Forbidden City as the framework for our first campaign. We had a great time. Like you, I didn't realize until much later that he had added all of our favorite parts.
LOL.. Hey Seth.. as a veteran DM, I just incorporated this module into my latest campaign. I butchered it. Everything you said is true! I was watching saying, "Did that, did that, had to make that myself too" . It is a great framework for adventure, but like you said it took me a lot of work.
Top stuff as usual. I can relate to the chief who doesn't know his son's name - my grandad had 17 grandchildren and he used to just reel names off until the one he was talking to answered
I loved playing this adventure as a kid, my DM played it as is. From the epic bridge combat, to my monk player saving the day as we battled the rust monster. The fighter ran in fear! He had just found a suit of plate mail. The new monster we discovered and fought. Tasloi riding a wasp, Then fighting the Yuan Ti and Bullywug for the first time. The whole jungle experience was great! And we accept a quest from the Pan Lung Dragon after crushed most of the Bullywugs. He said he would eat or help the bullywug defeat the bugbears. Ah good times and a great review!
The main thing I remember about this module was it having all these frankly horrific monsters I'd never seen before ( I was a cheapskate DM that only owned the Monster Manual) which offset how vague as a scenario it was. Great stuff, as always.
I agree about the module coming off as unfinished, I remember initially really liking it but then realizing the Yuan-Ti never show up again after the entrance encounters.... Also despite being inspired by Red Nails, it really lacks the odd fatalistic decadence that story presented. The conflicts are all very vaguely defined, without the indication that these cultures are pretty much doomed from the start from their petty quarrels. PS: Did you notice the Cthulhu statues snuck in the map art?
Yay! Never ran it or played in it but bought it when it first came out. I liked it a lot. And I see how there is this 1 obscure encounter has been made into something Lovecraftian in later DND...
The first module I ever bought at a mall back in the 80's. Returned to that same mall decades later, and it was like a ghost town, none of the vibrancy of the mall back when I bought the module. Eerie how the buying experience is like the game, a ruined city, a shadow of its former vibrancy.
Yesterday I saw your review on 'The secret of Bone Hill' again to assess if I could use it as a sandbox setting for a new campaign. That's why I thought this video was just a youtube recommendation of something I saw before. But no, it was a completely new review! I was happy to see it. Even though we have been plowing through Chult the last few months and it all feels somewhat familiar, it is always good to hear your advice on enhancing an adventure plotwise with you fixes.
I used this same adventure for the start of a campaign. I actually converted the whole thing to the Basic Roleplaying Game from Chaosium. It went really well and transfered easy. What happen in our game was that a storm came in and the ship they were on going somewhere else flounder on the rocks of a island. While exploring the island the PCs stumbled onto the city, and the found the cheif's son.
U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh - one of the best I've ever played. Around this tiny village I created a lovely set of scenarios. Village doomed to be raided, with a plotting evil cleric hoping to reestablish a lost cult, and my players insired by the Seven Samurai, mentoring villagers to the victory.
Hey Seth S, Love this review. THANKS for making it. From todays standards, with the internet and breadth of content, I agree looking at it with all that we have now. Yes it feels lacking and with out clear direction. I do feel it is one of the best of all time because I am an old gamer. Back when this came out in 81 or 82 it was a GOLD MINE of idea's and plot threads. It was chocked full of monsters, plots places and imagination. I was 14 years old and as a DM this was so much more then a single night of adventuring which many of the first modules where actually designed for being based on 4 hours tournament games. This was months and months of gaming. The Fiend Folio was not even out yet. We only had the Monster Manual to review and as a DM I loved presenting monsters that my players had not read over and over. This added to so many new and wonderful creatures and the ART and 3dMap. Blew us away. If memory serves me correct it preceded the Dragon Lance modules and their amazing 3d maps. We didn't have the internet, and Dragon only came out once a month and I could not always afford it to feed us idea's and adventures. We waited week by week month by month for a NEW module or hard cover to arrive in our Train Hobby Shop way in the back corner behind all the Important stuff....( Did my Dad just come out and talk about walking to school barefoot up hill both ways) And when this sort of mega module came out it was a feast. Thanks for your fantastic and entertaining videos . Your adventure idea's changes and additions are great as well and enjoyed.
Great ideas that were left up to the DM to flesh out. Probably my biggest gripe with some of these early AD&D modules. I loved the vibe of this module, but it really feels like a fantastic lost opportunity. I was pretty young when I got my hands on this, and didn't really understand what to do with it. I felt that many of the early Basic Expert modules were much more user friendly simply because of their clarity of purpose and I'd have loved to see that accessibility with these AD&D ones (especially this one!). Still... I was obsessed with that map!
I agree with you. But you are a bit severe. Those modules are full of innovations and new monsters. They aren't the most playable adventures and I wouldn't suggest buying this to most DM. But it's pretty relevant as a piece of D&D history. Playing those modules is like watching a really old movie. YMMV but an interesting read nonetheless.
It does clearly illustrate how the hobby has significantly changed over the decades. One's perspective on whether that's for good or ill likely directly relates to when one entered the hobby.
As a measure of my age, I had to Google YMMV! 😅 Don't get me wrong, I genuinely love this module for many reasons and it was my first Ad&d purchase on DriveThruRPG. I had Pharaoh the same year and I found that straight forward to run - a more complete package and a clearer layout. I know that was 2 or 3 years later, but Slave Pits was a similar vintage to Dwellers and managed to bridge the gap between competitive play and an actual adventure.
Forbidden City, eh? Sounds like a good place to substitute Sleestack for Yuan-Ti. The LotL soundtrack would be awesome to play while running this "module".
Seth, I am currently running DotFC 1e (original print) version for my group. I’ve really taken off on the sandbox feel and added in a good number of encounter areas and expanded on Horan the evil Wizard a good deal. You can easily expand it to be a campaign center piece. I went with a series of pregenerated PCs each with a different motivation to go to the city. My group had a great time
played a mongrel man psionicist in this in Adnd 2e, years ago. I remember polymorphing into a giant umberhulk and burrowing through the ruined tunnels as a shortcut and surprising the yuan ti. fun times, especially with the other mongrel man in my party and discovering our npc buddies in the forbidden city, great reunion!
What I (almost) did with it: Back when I was running my D&D 5e isle of Dread campaign, the PCs were in Karameikos helping out the lizard folk (from U2 Danger at Dunwater) repel an attack. This attack was from an aboleth and its 2 chuul servants. They were able to kill the aboleth and one chuul, but at the cost of one of the characters. That PCs body was dragged off by the chuul. This was one of those times where the randomness of things worked out perfectly, because that character was one of the ones with the most magic items on them - and chuul are drawn to that. Later that PCs was resurrected, and the player did an excellent job of having psychological problems with the whole affair. (Side note: the group was inducted as members into the lizard folk tribe which involved one of my favorite gaming concepts, I can describe it if you want, it will take a while.) What was going to happen, was the group was going to figure out where the body and the stuff was taken (The Forbidden City) and go there. Well, this would bring them back to the Isle of Dread, which they had escaped from - onto a different world than which they started - about 1 year back, in campaign time. I located the city on the plateau in the center of the isle, right above The Lost City which was above the crashed space ship from Escape from the Barrier Peaks (the malfunctioning FTL drive being why the island jumps from world-to-world, the PCs started out on Greyhawk). The island was being used by the Slavelords as a base of operations to plunder multiple worlds.
I ran an old-school classics campaign a few years ago that started with Against the Cult of the Reptile God, then did Dwellers of the Forbidden City, then The Gates of Firestorm Peak, then Castle Amber. Dwellers is very sandboxy so I helped streamline their experience to just the main quest - I think they really enjoyed several encounters from the module, both combat and RP. Playing the factions off one another to gain access to the big boss is always fun. They didn't encounter the aboleth nor the dragon, and didn't explore the city much.
Premise for continuing campaign and the Yuan Ti's plan: the Wizard is creating a time portal to a point in time where the Yuan Ti empire was at it's peak and assaulted and captured the city and intends to bring them through into the present. In addition to being an interesting premise in it's own right, this would allow a unique opportunity to explore the forgotten city both in ruins and when it was fully populated. A cool thing to do would allow the players to find their own corpses while exploring the city ruins, and you could give them a tough choice to make for the end, making it impossible to close the time portal from the present, only from the past
I like the idea of the totem pole having magic mouth spells that start to chant the opening chant of the song the Lion Sleeps Tonight, and just as they reach the village the rest of the song starts up!
this module (I1) was my first major effort as DM. i liked the adventure setting, new monsters, themes, and so much about the content, but ... the adventure module itself needed significant work to be playable. i added way more in the beginning setup to start characters at level 1, and then i focused on modifying and developing the content for wherever the party seemed to be going next, one week at a time. the result was unique and unrecognisable from the pre-made module. i never could have managed without the module as the starting basis, though.
Same here, played this module, lved it, great memories, we sided with the bullywogs and they took over, but also when I bought this I was surprised. That's a great GM for you. Keep up the great work. 😎🤘
I liked to introduce the wizard and the Pan Lung dragon by having the PCs see them fighting in the air in the far distance, clearly seeing the wingless dragon fighting a too small to see opponent, but farballs being clearly visible striking the dragon. (I also have the wizard stealing the egg.) Early on, the PCs won't what to make of that fight, but if they eventually learn about the egg, that fight will make a lot of sense.
*Awesome .* *I'm still hoping Seth will do a how to play Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st edition , Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition & Conan .* *He is the only hope to do it right .* *The problem with everyone else's how to play AD&D 1st edition & 2nd edition videos are that they get on thier soapbox and ramble forever about AD&D being the only real D&D .*
I LOVE these reviews! You give great recaps of adventures from a previous generation. I especially like how you point out taking what we LIKE about pre-written adventures and skipping over parts which don’t fit the table’s taste.
It reminds me a lot of The Isle of Dread. So many different ideas that it makes for it’s own campaign setting. As long as the DM puts in some work, it’s all anyone needs to keep the players busy for a long time.
Conan actually comes up upon a *desert* city... right next to a forest though! In the comic... don't know about the novels... still, comicbook guy AHOY!!
I think I'm gonna swipe these maps for my own campaign's ruined subterranean swamp city that has five factions fighting for dominance with one of them wanting to rebuild the empire. Considering that I was planning to use your dungeon cards to plan out the paths to get to the city, but was drawing a blank on the guard points and the city itself, this is a godsend.
Great video as usual :) From what I understood the Forbidden City in 5e Tomb of Annihilation was inspired by the 1e adventure. Although it's not a 1:1 conversion for sure :) Cheers!
That is probably the only module (except the great pendragon campaign) i would be willing to run. A despise everything being premade but this. This is juz full of fantastic adventure hooks you can make your own.
Those lists are often actually ranking "most influential" rather than "best" like they claim. I mean, introducing iconic monsters and future playable races makes this module important for the D&D legacy even if it wasn't very well written.
Their criteria appear to have been all over the place. Some were new adventures that were included due to some cool feature ("new" being subjective. List was made in 2004. 3 of the 30 were from the 2000's), while others were old adventures that were on it for being influential.
@@SSkorkowsky It mades a good job at validating Dungeon Magazine readers old collection while suggesting a few more modern purchase. But I might be a bit cynical...
I am glad you give kudos to the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Repile God, intro adventures that my friends liked a lot and that were fun to DM.
Let's be real: A 1E adventure that chews through 68 characters is completely plausible.
I understood "6d8 characters".
Or Shadows of Yog-Sothoth
Totally true. First edition modules could be brutal.
Characters yes, players no
😂 ... 😭
0:41 "unlike other adventures, a party may find the presence of a druid helpful"
Wow, what a burn
Era gag.
I thought the exact same thing, outch ! xD
Savage
Druids were not able to shapeshift until level 6 or something in AD&D. What do you do with a neutral nature priest who can't use metal equipment?
@@joshuaarmstrong2445 Put them in the back with a sling usually.
Ah, yes, 68 characters. One less than the ideal group size.
Nice.
Coach loads of. Characters.... as we used to call it.
You forgot the DM.
The only module that needs 68 characters is the Tomb of Horrors, original edition. You will come out with 6-8 characters when done!
I was gonna like this, but you have 68 likes. That's just too perfect.
The whole "and then they betray the party" is why so many of us 1E players went the murderhobo route, once we got into the dungeon at least. At least 80% of hypothetically "friendly" encounters were only pretending to be so to get the drop on the PCs, no matter if it made any sense for the betrayers or not. "No, you can't come with us. Go away now or we'll kill you here and now" was the standard reaction to NPCs. The idea that monsters could be actual people with actual motivations and the ability to genuinely work with the party out of enlightened self-interest was groundbreaking back then.
It seems like the common theme of this module (as written) is "Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
This hits me as a source book not an adventure
Pretty much.
Yeah, it seems kind of like the sort of thing WotC has with the setting books, a lot of stuff about the locations and then an adventure to start you off there.
E
Maybe it's just me, but when I GM, all printed adventures are source books
@@JohnSmith-qq7fm Yeah. Personally, I'm a fan of this module because getting a pile of hooks and ideas is more valuable to me than stat blocks and boxed text. That said, I can definitely understand why someone who paid for this module would be upset about having to then do most of the gruntwork themselves.
"The module feels more like a setting than an adventure" is the defining trait of early modules.
Vault of the Drow
Blame stock shares and creative control.
"Unlike many adventures, a druid might be useful." Savage. And how times change.
I was just thinking about you Seth. Not in a creepy way, I was thinking about Scott Brown.
Scott Brown was thinking about their showin'.
@@SSkorkowsky Has anyone ever brought up the former MA Senator in this context?
I love how your (dressed up like a Saxon) warrior PC character wears medieval armor but sounds like a wise guy from Brooklyn. 😆
Yeah, Jack is a great part of Seth’s videos.
Seth is a method actor.
A year or so back I got this manifesto of a comment from a guy saying how much he hated my cringey Jack and The Gang skits, and how I shouldn't take the popularity of my channel as any indicator that anyone actually liked them, because most subscribers merely tolerated them, while I could never know the vast numbers of people who were so turned off by them that they never subscribed. Needless to say, I didn't heed his impassioned advice.
@@SSkorkowsky Ah yes, the “I dislike it so it must be awful” type. I’m glad you ignored him, Seth. I love seeing Jack and the gang when they show up. They add a unique flavor to your content.
Love Jack and the gang
This module was a clear inspiration for the Tomb of Annihilation.
Came to say this
@@kennethfabacher6421 Same. Omu is literally referred to as "The Forbidden City" and the map is clearly inspired by this module.
Tomb of Annihilation is without a doubt Isle of Dread + Dwellers of the Forbidden City + Tomb of Horrors
Haha came to say the same. Half the stuff Seth describes sounds exactly like what my party ended up doing.
That sounds like the name of a HackMaster adventure.
Played this in the 80's and thoroughly enjoyed it but also couldn't figure out why we never found the Yuan Ti fortress or cave where they were busy planning the rejuvenation of their lost empire. Each week we said , sure to find them this time. I'm embarrassed to say it wasn't till years later I learnt there was no big group of Yuan Ti in the module.
Your commentary has inspired me and I've added in a warehouse and three different Yuan Ti encampments, a giant snake a la Timothy Varley's Wizard Titan Demon series. Also added a few more abandoned temples including one to the Egyptian Crocodile god Sobek buried in the Lake. It's giving my 18 year old self some closure for weeks and weeks of fruitless searching for a final Yuan Ti fortress that just wasn't there.
Who else continually forgets that Jack is also Seth!😆😂 Great video, as usual. 🏹⚔️🧙
I played this module in high school, so weird to think that the most memorable part was made up by my dungeon master from a plot hook. I still remember my Samurai and his friends charging into a living temple with the bugbears at our back in order to stop the Yuan ti from summoning a tainted god. I legit assumed that was the main thing in this book.
This was the first major module I set in my game-world in the mid-1980s; I embellished by making a hand-written calligraphic "joke" an "aged" (lightly waved open a candle-flame) parchment saying "Abandon all hope Ye who enter here" where I placed at the entrace location to the module. My players took one look at this prop and promptly decided to leave. It took me many game hours to convince to come back as I had nothing else prepared.
'the chieftains name is Poo-bay...or...Pube.'
I was looking away when you said “68 characters”. I was like, WAT
68 characters at 47th level, preferably.
Old school groups did tend to be larger, but perhaps not quite that much. :)
@@richmcgee434 Amusingly, in the original D&D booklets from 1974, it mentions "up to fifty players, and one patient referee."
I'm trolling the comments for the living legends out to tell us they've run bigger groups.
Ah, the Bob Ross of Role-playing.
"68 characters."
First time the monsters ever said "Ah hell no! This violates our contract with the dungeon owner."
Definitely one for the DIY crowd. Whoever made that list for the magazine must have subscribed to the "module as an inspirational starting point rather than a finished scenario" ideal.
I gotta love how you goofed at the beginning with "68 characters" and, rather than edit that out, kept it in there just because it was a funny slip-up.
I very nearly just saved it in the "Outtakes" folder for some future outtake reel, but figured it was worth going ahead and including here.
@@SSkorkowsky I can remember playing Runequest in the early 80s with 14 people at the table, and there was one night at the FLGS where 22 people turned up to play the store's open Vampire the Masquerade campaign. That last still gives me nightmares. But 68 would be a bit much - unless maybe it was an OSR funnel game where everyone starts with half a dozen or more zero-level PCs and tries to get one playable survivor at the end of the day, like some deranged fantasy version of Paranoia.
Hot damn, I've done 12 character tables before but 68 characters?! Imagine the chorus of responses when you ask them "You enter the room. What would you guys do first?"
Honestly if you can actually run 68 players and not want to die your
1.Not human
2.Running an mmorpg
"Alright fellas, now that the recap of last week's session is out of the way, the yuan-ti guards charge at you. If I can get everyone to roll initiative we can get everyone's turns lined up for the encounter we'll be having next week. Before we wrap up, I'd like to once again thank Dave for lending us the use of his auditorium for this week's session."
68 characters does not necessarily mean 68 players at the same time
We're proud to announce our new module; designed for 68 level 35-45 characters. What is its name you ask? Bombshell.
Throne of Bloodstone. Talk about a slaughterhouse!
Always say an audible "Hell yeah!" Whenever I see a new Seth video.
I ran my take on this about a year ago. I took a deconstructed Isle of Dread with the central temple farmed out to a separate volcanic island and dropped the Forbidden City into the central mesa with Tomb of Annalation's Yuan-Ti temple replacing the weak yuan-ti showing in this module. Much Polynesian-themed fun was had by all, and I fully expect the players to travel back to the island sometime as they wanted to explore areas they didn't get to. Yes, the underground is way up there on that list.
It's been awhile since a Seth AD&D review. That screwup in the beginning was pretty funny to.
If you find a campaign or adventure, meant for 68 players, please let us know!
The convention "epics" are probably the closest to that you're going to get, being designed to be run through by an entire room full of tables all at once.
Setting I1 in Eberron's southern continent of Xen'drik could be an interesting option. The Forbidden City could've belonged to the Dark Elves or Giants so you'd have some guidance for the city's past.
Or move it to the Forgotten Realms' Chult and even place the Tomb of Annihilation inside the city.
I definitely agree with the Eberron choice, that sounds awesome.
after 24 minutes I kept thinking about making a little encounter with sad bullywugs returning from a failed raid on the wizard's tower without weapons or armor.
maybe just making a little schedule for when each faction does something would be good enough to flesh it out a bit more
I ran this adventure wayyyy back in the late 80s- my group loved it. Instead of several ways down I combined all and made a gauntlet. Once there they encountered a vampire “queen” that had a necklace of Hide Alignment that wanted the tribal warfare stopped etc etc. it was a fun adventure
You know it's a great classic AD&D module when it's title could easily be a REH short story.
B4 The Lost City by Tom Moldvay is another one that's basically Red Nails.
This was the first adventure that I ever ran. Oh. I agree with you about “All That Glitters”. It was a classic!
Please, more AD&D adventure reviews for us, Seth!
It would be fascinating if someone took all those paragraphs and ran with them fully fleshing out each hook and making a complete modern version that acted more like a sourcebook.
Absolutely. If I were WotC I'd be talking to Seth by now about doing precisely that. A hardcover 200 page version updated to 5e (6e?) with modern D&D production values would be flat out awesome.
@@michaelcottle6270 You could even name the chief Pubbe to make that entry retroactively correct!
I’ve done something very much like this for the run of Dwellers I’m doing. I’ve expanded Horan’s area and dropped in several others including a slave pit, a temple of Tsathoggua, a Groaning Spirit in the northern portion of the city, a Step Pyramid (actually shown in the center of the original map) with a Greater Mummy and guarded by an Iron Golem, and swapped out the Pan Lung dragon for a Froghemoth that the Bullywugs offer sacrifices to.
@@danielrowan4716 hey Seth! I've found your co-author 😊
Or there’s Tomb of annihilation. Everything before the tomb. WotC crew said DotFC and Isle of dread were heavy influences for ToA
I’m always looking forward to new rpg reviews from you.
Your criticisms mirror those we had when we first played this back in the early 80s: so much potential left on the table unused. While watching this review, though, something struck me: the Forbidden City itself and the the four continuing adventures outlined at the end would be ideal for conversion and development for Modiphius Conan (not surprisingly, given the source).
Seth: I'm going to tell you about the adventure from the GM and player point-of-view.
Seth (as Jack the NPC): And I'm here to give you a break from Seth's yammering face.
Oh, if only Dweebles and the others could do that as well.
I remember there being carnivorous apes, a giant hedgehog, and a Yuan-Ti abomination. This is definitely one that's really more of a DM sandbox than anything else.
Tournament games do not automatically transition into good campaign games - but this one did give us Yuan Ti.
I always appreciate your AD&D adventure reviews. When I was 13 one of my players gave this to me to run and I remember it being confusing for my young mind; after scaling down the cliffs they started killing mongrelmen until a random encounter killed the party then we switched back to my home brew adventure but I remember that this book had great artwork especially the Tasloi
inside cover art!
YES! More module reviews! Also, they did take this adventure and merge it with Tomb of Horrors for the 5e adventure "Tomb of Annihilation"
those 2 sections were the main strength of ToA. I kind of feel that if Dwellers simply had a Yuan-Ti temple detailed in its pages with a big fat aboleth being worshipped as a god (and maybe a passage to the underdark if a DM wants to expand the aboleth thing) then a lot of its problems would be solved. Isle of Dread (almost) managed this.
My very first DM used Dwellers of the Forbidden City as the framework for our first campaign. We had a great time. Like you, I didn't realize until much later that he had added all of our favorite parts.
LOL.. Hey Seth.. as a veteran DM, I just incorporated this module into my latest campaign. I butchered it. Everything you said is true! I was watching saying, "Did that, did that, had to make that myself too" . It is a great framework for adventure, but like you said it took me a lot of work.
Top stuff as usual. I can relate to the chief who doesn't know his son's name - my grandad had 17 grandchildren and he used to just reel names off until the one he was talking to answered
5e did Kind of do that to this book, the Lost City of Omu chapter in Tomb of Annihilation was very much inspired by Dwellers of the Forbidden City
I loved playing this adventure as a kid, my DM played it as is.
From the epic bridge combat, to my monk player saving the day as we battled the rust monster. The fighter ran in fear! He had just found a suit of plate mail.
The new monster we discovered and fought. Tasloi riding a wasp, Then fighting the Yuan Ti and Bullywug for the first time.
The whole jungle experience was great!
And we accept a quest from the Pan Lung Dragon after crushed most of the Bullywugs. He said he would eat or help the bullywug defeat the bugbears.
Ah good times and a great review!
Back in 79/80 we did a big all day suday dnd session based on red nails we had a larger 4x8 dungeon with different teams entering from different sides
The main thing I remember about this module was it having all these frankly horrific monsters I'd never seen before ( I was a cheapskate DM that only owned the Monster Manual) which offset how vague as a scenario it was.
Great stuff, as always.
I think "Pube" was mentioned in an issue of the Dragon.
I actually love listening to this while I work. It's as close as I can get to playing D&D while working.
I agree about the module coming off as unfinished, I remember initially really liking it but then realizing the Yuan-Ti never show up again after the entrance encounters....
Also despite being inspired by Red Nails, it really lacks the odd fatalistic decadence that story presented. The conflicts are all very vaguely defined, without the indication that these cultures are pretty much doomed from the start from their petty quarrels.
PS: Did you notice the Cthulhu statues snuck in the map art?
Yay! Never ran it or played in it but bought it when it first came out. I liked it a lot. And I see how there is this 1 obscure encounter has been made into something Lovecraftian in later DND...
The first module I ever bought at a mall back in the 80's. Returned to that same mall decades later, and it was like a ghost town, none of the vibrancy of the mall back when I bought the module. Eerie how the buying experience is like the game, a ruined city, a shadow of its former vibrancy.
Jack is the Eternal Champion, appearing in all times and universes.
Nowhere near angsty enough. Elric won't even return his calls.
He's the Eternal Snarker.
This was the first adventure I ever played as a player. I was maybe 6 or 7 years old in the way back machine.
Yesterday I saw your review on 'The secret of Bone Hill' again to assess if I could use it as a sandbox setting for a new campaign.
That's why I thought this video was just a youtube recommendation of something I saw before. But no, it was a completely new review! I was happy to see it.
Even though we have been plowing through Chult the last few months and it all feels somewhat familiar, it is always good to hear your advice on enhancing an adventure plotwise with you fixes.
Do you think you will ever do a video on how to design a dungeon?
Good idea. +1
I used this same adventure for the start of a campaign. I actually converted the whole thing to the Basic Roleplaying Game from Chaosium. It went really well and transfered easy. What happen in our game was that a storm came in and the ship they were on going somewhere else flounder on the rocks of a island. While exploring the island the PCs stumbled onto the city, and the found the cheif's son.
U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh - one of the best I've ever played. Around this tiny village I created a lovely set of scenarios. Village doomed to be raided, with a plotting evil cleric hoping to reestablish a lost cult, and my players insired by the Seven Samurai, mentoring villagers to the victory.
Hey Seth S, Love this review. THANKS for making it.
From todays standards, with the internet and breadth of content, I agree looking at it with all that we have now. Yes it feels lacking and with out clear direction.
I do feel it is one of the best of all time because I am an old gamer.
Back when this came out in 81 or 82 it was a GOLD MINE of idea's and plot threads. It was chocked full of monsters, plots places and imagination. I was 14 years old and as a DM this was so much more then a single night of adventuring which many of the first modules where actually designed for being based on 4 hours tournament games. This was months and months of gaming. The Fiend Folio was not even out yet. We only had the Monster Manual to review and as a DM I loved presenting monsters that my players had not read over and over. This added to so many new and wonderful creatures and the ART and 3dMap. Blew us away. If memory serves me correct it preceded the Dragon Lance modules and their amazing 3d maps. We didn't have the internet, and Dragon only came out once a month and I could not always afford it to feed us idea's and adventures. We waited week by week month by month for a NEW module or hard cover to arrive in our Train Hobby Shop way in the back corner behind all the Important stuff....( Did my Dad just come out and talk about walking to school barefoot up hill both ways) And when this sort of mega module came out it was a feast.
Thanks for your fantastic and entertaining videos . Your adventure idea's changes and additions are great as well and enjoyed.
Great ideas that were left up to the DM to flesh out. Probably my biggest gripe with some of these early AD&D modules. I loved the vibe of this module, but it really feels like a fantastic lost opportunity. I was pretty young when I got my hands on this, and didn't really understand what to do with it. I felt that many of the early Basic Expert modules were much more user friendly simply because of their clarity of purpose and I'd have loved to see that accessibility with these AD&D ones (especially this one!). Still... I was obsessed with that map!
I agree with you. But you are a bit severe. Those modules are full of innovations and new monsters. They aren't the most playable adventures and I wouldn't suggest buying this to most DM. But it's pretty relevant as a piece of D&D history. Playing those modules is like watching a really old movie. YMMV but an interesting read nonetheless.
It does clearly illustrate how the hobby has significantly changed over the decades. One's perspective on whether that's for good or ill likely directly relates to when one entered the hobby.
As a measure of my age, I had to Google YMMV! 😅 Don't get me wrong, I genuinely love this module for many reasons and it was my first Ad&d purchase on DriveThruRPG. I had Pharaoh the same year and I found that straight forward to run - a more complete package and a clearer layout. I know that was 2 or 3 years later, but Slave Pits was a similar vintage to Dwellers and managed to bridge the gap between competitive play and an actual adventure.
Forbidden City, eh? Sounds like a good place to substitute Sleestack for Yuan-Ti. The LotL soundtrack would be awesome to play while running this "module".
Great review as always. So wild you did this one, Seth. I modded it for NWN years ago, and there seems to be a renewed interest in it now.
Seth, I am currently running DotFC 1e (original print) version for my group. I’ve really taken off on the sandbox feel and added in a good number of encounter areas and expanded on Horan the evil Wizard a good deal. You can easily expand it to be a campaign center piece. I went with a series of pregenerated PCs each with a different motivation to go to the city. My group had a great time
I mean all an adventure really is, is a dungeon. Especially in the 70's - 80's.
played a mongrel man psionicist in this in Adnd 2e, years ago. I remember polymorphing into a giant umberhulk and burrowing through the ruined tunnels as a shortcut and surprising the yuan ti. fun times, especially with the other mongrel man in my party and discovering our npc buddies in the forbidden city, great reunion!
I fully agree about how great it would be to see this fleshed out into a 5e adventure book. It has some great ideas. Someone get on that, stat!
They did it is in Tomb of Annihilation
As always, awesome review. Now I need to do a walkthrough and review of the I1 Mod.
I think they have already (mostly) took the adventure and blew it up onto a 5E campaign. It’s basically Omu from Tomb of Annihilation.
What I (almost) did with it:
Back when I was running my D&D 5e isle of Dread campaign, the PCs were in Karameikos helping out the lizard folk (from U2 Danger at Dunwater) repel an attack. This attack was from an aboleth and its 2 chuul servants. They were able to kill the aboleth and one chuul, but at the cost of one of the characters. That PCs body was dragged off by the chuul. This was one of those times where the randomness of things worked out perfectly, because that character was one of the ones with the most magic items on them - and chuul are drawn to that. Later that PCs was resurrected, and the player did an excellent job of having psychological problems with the whole affair. (Side note: the group was inducted as members into the lizard folk tribe which involved one of my favorite gaming concepts, I can describe it if you want, it will take a while.)
What was going to happen, was the group was going to figure out where the body and the stuff was taken (The Forbidden City) and go there. Well, this would bring them back to the Isle of Dread, which they had escaped from - onto a different world than which they started - about 1 year back, in campaign time. I located the city on the plateau in the center of the isle, right above The Lost City which was above the crashed space ship from Escape from the Barrier Peaks (the malfunctioning FTL drive being why the island jumps from world-to-world, the PCs started out on Greyhawk). The island was being used by the Slavelords as a base of operations to plunder multiple worlds.
I ran an old-school classics campaign a few years ago that started with Against the Cult of the Reptile God, then did Dwellers of the Forbidden City, then The Gates of Firestorm Peak, then Castle Amber. Dwellers is very sandboxy so I helped streamline their experience to just the main quest - I think they really enjoyed several encounters from the module, both combat and RP. Playing the factions off one another to gain access to the big boss is always fun. They didn't encounter the aboleth nor the dragon, and didn't explore the city much.
Premise for continuing campaign and the Yuan Ti's plan: the Wizard is creating a time portal to a point in time where the Yuan Ti empire was at it's peak and assaulted and captured the city and intends to bring them through into the present. In addition to being an interesting premise in it's own right, this would allow a unique opportunity to explore the forgotten city both in ruins and when it was fully populated. A cool thing to do would allow the players to find their own corpses while exploring the city ruins, and you could give them a tough choice to make for the end, making it impossible to close the time portal from the present, only from the past
I like the idea of the totem pole having magic mouth spells that start to chant the opening chant of the song the Lion Sleeps Tonight, and just as they reach the village the rest of the song starts up!
this module (I1) was my first major effort as DM. i liked the adventure setting, new monsters, themes, and so much about the content, but ... the adventure module itself needed significant work to be playable. i added way more in the beginning setup to start characters at level 1, and then i focused on modifying and developing the content for wherever the party seemed to be going next, one week at a time. the result was unique and unrecognisable from the pre-made module. i never could have managed without the module as the starting basis, though.
This module appears to be the inspiration for the lost city Omu in 5e Tomb of Annihilation.
I LOVE your DnD module reviews. Wish you did this more often - perhaps on some of the more recent ones!
Run this module, but put it on top of the plateau from Isle of Dread as the end point for Isle of Dread.
Just sayin.
But Jack they did make it a campaign... they just reskinned it and called it Tomb of Annihilation.
Same here, played this module, lved it, great memories, we sided with the bullywogs and they took over, but also when I bought this I was surprised. That's a great GM for you. Keep up the great work. 😎🤘
So the Wikipedia page sent you on a fruitless quest for any sign of a Pube... well played Wiki, well played.
I liked to introduce the wizard and the Pan Lung dragon by having the PCs see them fighting in the air in the far distance, clearly seeing the wingless dragon fighting a too small to see opponent, but farballs being clearly visible striking the dragon. (I also have the wizard stealing the egg.) Early on, the PCs won't what to make of that fight, but if they eventually learn about the egg, that fight will make a lot of sense.
*Awesome .*
*I'm still hoping Seth will do a how to play Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st edition , Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition & Conan .*
*He is the only hope to do it right .*
*The problem with everyone else's how to play AD&D 1st edition & 2nd edition videos are that they get on thier soapbox and ramble forever about AD&D being the only real D&D .*
I am currently running tomb of annihilation and I think the city of Omu takes some inspiration here.
Seth, I think you should write up these further adventures and publish them on the DM's Guild.
I LOVE these reviews! You give great recaps of adventures from a previous generation. I especially like how you point out taking what we LIKE about pre-written adventures and skipping over parts which don’t fit the table’s taste.
It reminds me a lot of The Isle of Dread. So many different ideas that it makes for it’s own campaign setting. As long as the DM puts in some work, it’s all anyone needs to keep the players busy for a long time.
Conan actually comes up upon a *desert* city... right next to a forest though! In the comic... don't know about the novels... still, comicbook guy AHOY!!
When will we be getting another war story? I'm not sure which is even my favorite, but I love them all!
Who knows?
It may come as an unexpected surprise. (When someone says: Bombshell!)
Surprise video like scott brown bustin in!
I LOVE these old school AD&D module reviews!
I think I'm gonna swipe these maps for my own campaign's ruined subterranean swamp city that has five factions fighting for dominance with one of them wanting to rebuild the empire. Considering that I was planning to use your dungeon cards to plan out the paths to get to the city, but was drawing a blank on the guard points and the city itself, this is a godsend.
This was one of my favorite modules because it was more a setting rather than linear dungeon crawl.
Great video as usual :)
From what I understood the Forbidden City in 5e Tomb of Annihilation was inspired by the 1e adventure. Although it's not a 1:1 conversion for sure :) Cheers!
That is probably the only module (except the great pendragon campaign) i would be willing to run. A despise everything being premade but this. This is juz full of fantastic adventure hooks you can make your own.
I know you like CoC better for a few years now, but man, I do like these DND reviews...
I have a lot of the ad&d books, but i would never actually run the game...or play the game really. I mainly use the ad&d books for the lore.
the module sounds like a proto-location sourcebook, which is pretty cool. Still, stats for described new monsters would always be nice.
Those lists are often actually ranking "most influential" rather than "best" like they claim. I mean, introducing iconic monsters and future playable races makes this module important for the D&D legacy even if it wasn't very well written.
Their criteria appear to have been all over the place. Some were new adventures that were included due to some cool feature ("new" being subjective. List was made in 2004. 3 of the 30 were from the 2000's), while others were old adventures that were on it for being influential.
@@SSkorkowsky It mades a good job at validating Dungeon Magazine readers old collection while suggesting a few more modern purchase. But I might be a bit cynical...
Nice! Kicking it old school.
I can't believe you left that blooper in Seth that's freaking hilarious
I am glad you give kudos to the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Repile God, intro adventures that my friends liked a lot and that were fun to DM.