Yeah, it seems kind of like the sort of thing WotC has with the setting books, a lot of stuff about the locations and then an adventure to start you off there.
@@JohnSmith-qq7fm Yeah. Personally, I'm a fan of this module because getting a pile of hooks and ideas is more valuable to me than stat blocks and boxed text. That said, I can definitely understand why someone who paid for this module would be upset about having to then do most of the gruntwork themselves.
Played this in the 80's and thoroughly enjoyed it but also couldn't figure out why we never found the Yuan Ti fortress or cave where they were busy planning the rejuvenation of their lost empire. Each week we said , sure to find them this time. I'm embarrassed to say it wasn't till years later I learnt there was no big group of Yuan Ti in the module. Your commentary has inspired me and I've added in a warehouse and three different Yuan Ti encampments, a giant snake a la Timothy Varley's Wizard Titan Demon series. Also added a few more abandoned temples including one to the Egyptian Crocodile god Sobek buried in the Lake. It's giving my 18 year old self some closure for weeks and weeks of fruitless searching for a final Yuan Ti fortress that just wasn't there.
I ran this adventure wayyyy back in the late 80s- my group loved it. Instead of several ways down I combined all and made a gauntlet. Once there they encountered a vampire “queen” that had a necklace of Hide Alignment that wanted the tribal warfare stopped etc etc. it was a fun adventure
The whole "and then they betray the party" is why so many of us 1E players went the murderhobo route, once we got into the dungeon at least. At least 80% of hypothetically "friendly" encounters were only pretending to be so to get the drop on the PCs, no matter if it made any sense for the betrayers or not. "No, you can't come with us. Go away now or we'll kill you here and now" was the standard reaction to NPCs. The idea that monsters could be actual people with actual motivations and the ability to genuinely work with the party out of enlightened self-interest was groundbreaking back then.
I gotta love how you goofed at the beginning with "68 characters" and, rather than edit that out, kept it in there just because it was a funny slip-up.
@@SSkorkowsky I can remember playing Runequest in the early 80s with 14 people at the table, and there was one night at the FLGS where 22 people turned up to play the store's open Vampire the Masquerade campaign. That last still gives me nightmares. But 68 would be a bit much - unless maybe it was an OSR funnel game where everyone starts with half a dozen or more zero-level PCs and tries to get one playable survivor at the end of the day, like some deranged fantasy version of Paranoia.
Hot damn, I've done 12 character tables before but 68 characters?! Imagine the chorus of responses when you ask them "You enter the room. What would you guys do first?"
"Alright fellas, now that the recap of last week's session is out of the way, the yuan-ti guards charge at you. If I can get everyone to roll initiative we can get everyone's turns lined up for the encounter we'll be having next week. Before we wrap up, I'd like to once again thank Dave for lending us the use of his auditorium for this week's session."
Setting I1 in Eberron's southern continent of Xen'drik could be an interesting option. The Forbidden City could've belonged to the Dark Elves or Giants so you'd have some guidance for the city's past. Or move it to the Forgotten Realms' Chult and even place the Tomb of Annihilation inside the city.
I ran my take on this about a year ago. I took a deconstructed Isle of Dread with the central temple farmed out to a separate volcanic island and dropped the Forbidden City into the central mesa with Tomb of Annalation's Yuan-Ti temple replacing the weak yuan-ti showing in this module. Much Polynesian-themed fun was had by all, and I fully expect the players to travel back to the island sometime as they wanted to explore areas they didn't get to. Yes, the underground is way up there on that list.
A year or so back I got this manifesto of a comment from a guy saying how much he hated my cringey Jack and The Gang skits, and how I shouldn't take the popularity of my channel as any indicator that anyone actually liked them, because most subscribers merely tolerated them, while I could never know the vast numbers of people who were so turned off by them that they never subscribed. Needless to say, I didn't heed his impassioned advice.
@@SSkorkowsky Ah yes, the “I dislike it so it must be awful” type. I’m glad you ignored him, Seth. I love seeing Jack and the gang when they show up. They add a unique flavor to your content.
after 24 minutes I kept thinking about making a little encounter with sad bullywugs returning from a failed raid on the wizard's tower without weapons or armor. maybe just making a little schedule for when each faction does something would be good enough to flesh it out a bit more
This was the first major module I set in my game-world in the mid-1980s; I embellished by making a hand-written calligraphic "joke" an "aged" (lightly waved open a candle-flame) parchment saying "Abandon all hope Ye who enter here" where I placed at the entrace location to the module. My players took one look at this prop and promptly decided to leave. It took me many game hours to convince to come back as I had nothing else prepared.
I played this module in high school, so weird to think that the most memorable part was made up by my dungeon master from a plot hook. I still remember my Samurai and his friends charging into a living temple with the bugbears at our back in order to stop the Yuan ti from summoning a tainted god. I legit assumed that was the main thing in this book.
It would be fascinating if someone took all those paragraphs and ran with them fully fleshing out each hook and making a complete modern version that acted more like a sourcebook.
Absolutely. If I were WotC I'd be talking to Seth by now about doing precisely that. A hardcover 200 page version updated to 5e (6e?) with modern D&D production values would be flat out awesome.
I’ve done something very much like this for the run of Dwellers I’m doing. I’ve expanded Horan’s area and dropped in several others including a slave pit, a temple of Tsathoggua, a Groaning Spirit in the northern portion of the city, a Step Pyramid (actually shown in the center of the original map) with a Greater Mummy and guarded by an Iron Golem, and swapped out the Pan Lung dragon for a Froghemoth that the Bullywugs offer sacrifices to.
Your criticisms mirror those we had when we first played this back in the early 80s: so much potential left on the table unused. While watching this review, though, something struck me: the Forbidden City itself and the the four continuing adventures outlined at the end would be ideal for conversion and development for Modiphius Conan (not surprisingly, given the source).
I always appreciate your AD&D adventure reviews. When I was 13 one of my players gave this to me to run and I remember it being confusing for my young mind; after scaling down the cliffs they started killing mongrelmen until a random encounter killed the party then we switched back to my home brew adventure but I remember that this book had great artwork especially the Tasloi
Definitely one for the DIY crowd. Whoever made that list for the magazine must have subscribed to the "module as an inspirational starting point rather than a finished scenario" ideal.
those 2 sections were the main strength of ToA. I kind of feel that if Dwellers simply had a Yuan-Ti temple detailed in its pages with a big fat aboleth being worshipped as a god (and maybe a passage to the underdark if a DM wants to expand the aboleth thing) then a lot of its problems would be solved. Isle of Dread (almost) managed this.
The convention "epics" are probably the closest to that you're going to get, being designed to be run through by an entire room full of tables all at once.
Seth: I'm going to tell you about the adventure from the GM and player point-of-view. Seth (as Jack the NPC): And I'm here to give you a break from Seth's yammering face. Oh, if only Dweebles and the others could do that as well.
Yesterday I saw your review on 'The secret of Bone Hill' again to assess if I could use it as a sandbox setting for a new campaign. That's why I thought this video was just a youtube recommendation of something I saw before. But no, it was a completely new review! I was happy to see it. Even though we have been plowing through Chult the last few months and it all feels somewhat familiar, it is always good to hear your advice on enhancing an adventure plotwise with you fixes.
Top stuff as usual. I can relate to the chief who doesn't know his son's name - my grandad had 17 grandchildren and he used to just reel names off until the one he was talking to answered
Yay! Never ran it or played in it but bought it when it first came out. I liked it a lot. And I see how there is this 1 obscure encounter has been made into something Lovecraftian in later DND...
LOL.. Hey Seth.. as a veteran DM, I just incorporated this module into my latest campaign. I butchered it. Everything you said is true! I was watching saying, "Did that, did that, had to make that myself too" . It is a great framework for adventure, but like you said it took me a lot of work.
Hey Seth S, Love this review. THANKS for making it. From todays standards, with the internet and breadth of content, I agree looking at it with all that we have now. Yes it feels lacking and with out clear direction. I do feel it is one of the best of all time because I am an old gamer. Back when this came out in 81 or 82 it was a GOLD MINE of idea's and plot threads. It was chocked full of monsters, plots places and imagination. I was 14 years old and as a DM this was so much more then a single night of adventuring which many of the first modules where actually designed for being based on 4 hours tournament games. This was months and months of gaming. The Fiend Folio was not even out yet. We only had the Monster Manual to review and as a DM I loved presenting monsters that my players had not read over and over. This added to so many new and wonderful creatures and the ART and 3dMap. Blew us away. If memory serves me correct it preceded the Dragon Lance modules and their amazing 3d maps. We didn't have the internet, and Dragon only came out once a month and I could not always afford it to feed us idea's and adventures. We waited week by week month by month for a NEW module or hard cover to arrive in our Train Hobby Shop way in the back corner behind all the Important stuff....( Did my Dad just come out and talk about walking to school barefoot up hill both ways) And when this sort of mega module came out it was a feast. Thanks for your fantastic and entertaining videos . Your adventure idea's changes and additions are great as well and enjoyed.
I loved playing this adventure as a kid, my DM played it as is. From the epic bridge combat, to my monk player saving the day as we battled the rust monster. The fighter ran in fear! He had just found a suit of plate mail. The new monster we discovered and fought. Tasloi riding a wasp, Then fighting the Yuan Ti and Bullywug for the first time. The whole jungle experience was great! And we accept a quest from the Pan Lung Dragon after crushed most of the Bullywugs. He said he would eat or help the bullywug defeat the bugbears. Ah good times and a great review!
My very first DM used Dwellers of the Forbidden City as the framework for our first campaign. We had a great time. Like you, I didn't realize until much later that he had added all of our favorite parts.
Seth, I am currently running DotFC 1e (original print) version for my group. I’ve really taken off on the sandbox feel and added in a good number of encounter areas and expanded on Horan the evil Wizard a good deal. You can easily expand it to be a campaign center piece. I went with a series of pregenerated PCs each with a different motivation to go to the city. My group had a great time
The main thing I remember about this module was it having all these frankly horrific monsters I'd never seen before ( I was a cheapskate DM that only owned the Monster Manual) which offset how vague as a scenario it was. Great stuff, as always.
Great ideas that were left up to the DM to flesh out. Probably my biggest gripe with some of these early AD&D modules. I loved the vibe of this module, but it really feels like a fantastic lost opportunity. I was pretty young when I got my hands on this, and didn't really understand what to do with it. I felt that many of the early Basic Expert modules were much more user friendly simply because of their clarity of purpose and I'd have loved to see that accessibility with these AD&D ones (especially this one!). Still... I was obsessed with that map!
I agree with you. But you are a bit severe. Those modules are full of innovations and new monsters. They aren't the most playable adventures and I wouldn't suggest buying this to most DM. But it's pretty relevant as a piece of D&D history. Playing those modules is like watching a really old movie. YMMV but an interesting read nonetheless.
It does clearly illustrate how the hobby has significantly changed over the decades. One's perspective on whether that's for good or ill likely directly relates to when one entered the hobby.
As a measure of my age, I had to Google YMMV! 😅 Don't get me wrong, I genuinely love this module for many reasons and it was my first Ad&d purchase on DriveThruRPG. I had Pharaoh the same year and I found that straight forward to run - a more complete package and a clearer layout. I know that was 2 or 3 years later, but Slave Pits was a similar vintage to Dwellers and managed to bridge the gap between competitive play and an actual adventure.
I remember there being carnivorous apes, a giant hedgehog, and a Yuan-Ti abomination. This is definitely one that's really more of a DM sandbox than anything else.
I LOVE these reviews! You give great recaps of adventures from a previous generation. I especially like how you point out taking what we LIKE about pre-written adventures and skipping over parts which don’t fit the table’s taste.
The first module I ever bought at a mall back in the 80's. Returned to that same mall decades later, and it was like a ghost town, none of the vibrancy of the mall back when I bought the module. Eerie how the buying experience is like the game, a ruined city, a shadow of its former vibrancy.
Same here, played this module, lved it, great memories, we sided with the bullywogs and they took over, but also when I bought this I was surprised. That's a great GM for you. Keep up the great work. 😎🤘
I like the idea of the totem pole having magic mouth spells that start to chant the opening chant of the song the Lion Sleeps Tonight, and just as they reach the village the rest of the song starts up!
Hello Seth, seems like forever since you have done a D&D video. Trust me when I say "I'm not complaining, love your content!" Thank you for bringing the Tasloi to my attention. Dave from NA, once said something about hairy jungle goblins that rode giant wasp, I always wondered what the inspiration was behind that. Now I know, lol. You and Jack are 100% right, WotC should make this module into a expanded campaign. These old school modules where all set up the same way, everybody betrays you. You know Seth, it just how it was done back then. I would have only one group or NPC betray the adventuring party. I had forgotten how great this module is! Thanks Seth you have a wonderful day!
U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh - one of the best I've ever played. Around this tiny village I created a lovely set of scenarios. Village doomed to be raided, with a plotting evil cleric hoping to reestablish a lost cult, and my players insired by the Seven Samurai, mentoring villagers to the victory.
played a mongrel man psionicist in this in Adnd 2e, years ago. I remember polymorphing into a giant umberhulk and burrowing through the ruined tunnels as a shortcut and surprising the yuan ti. fun times, especially with the other mongrel man in my party and discovering our npc buddies in the forbidden city, great reunion!
Your list of top old school modules is spookily similar to my favourites. Saltmarsh, Reptile God, Glitters. Did you ever try The Sentinel and The Gauntlet? Very good old school U.K. written modules. Best ever were the original Desert of Desolation I series. Sailing on the glass sea was memorable.
The 1e Lankhmar book was extremely influential for me. Got me into Leiber, Sword & Sorcery, and without it I wouldn't have written my Black Raven series.
Seth, I'd love to hear you review just one DCC module. They seem to be the closest thing I've found to resembling the original AD&D modules, in spirt and form. With all your experience playing D&D over the many years I'd love to see what you think of their adventure modules.
DCC is great. Got that old sword & sorcery feel, with dangerous magic and more interesting options for melee droogs. Goodman Games currently has a Beginner's Bundle on sale for a very nice price.
I ran an old-school classics campaign a few years ago that started with Against the Cult of the Reptile God, then did Dwellers of the Forbidden City, then The Gates of Firestorm Peak, then Castle Amber. Dwellers is very sandboxy so I helped streamline their experience to just the main quest - I think they really enjoyed several encounters from the module, both combat and RP. Playing the factions off one another to gain access to the big boss is always fun. They didn't encounter the aboleth nor the dragon, and didn't explore the city much.
I used this same adventure for the start of a campaign. I actually converted the whole thing to the Basic Roleplaying Game from Chaosium. It went really well and transfered easy. What happen in our game was that a storm came in and the ship they were on going somewhere else flounder on the rocks of a island. While exploring the island the PCs stumbled onto the city, and the found the cheif's son.
Forbidden City, eh? Sounds like a good place to substitute Sleestack for Yuan-Ti. The LotL soundtrack would be awesome to play while running this "module".
I agree about the module coming off as unfinished, I remember initially really liking it but then realizing the Yuan-Ti never show up again after the entrance encounters.... Also despite being inspired by Red Nails, it really lacks the odd fatalistic decadence that story presented. The conflicts are all very vaguely defined, without the indication that these cultures are pretty much doomed from the start from their petty quarrels. PS: Did you notice the Cthulhu statues snuck in the map art?
I am glad you give kudos to the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Repile God, intro adventures that my friends liked a lot and that were fun to DM.
I think I'm gonna swipe these maps for my own campaign's ruined subterranean swamp city that has five factions fighting for dominance with one of them wanting to rebuild the empire. Considering that I was planning to use your dungeon cards to plan out the paths to get to the city, but was drawing a blank on the guard points and the city itself, this is a godsend.
What I (almost) did with it: Back when I was running my D&D 5e isle of Dread campaign, the PCs were in Karameikos helping out the lizard folk (from U2 Danger at Dunwater) repel an attack. This attack was from an aboleth and its 2 chuul servants. They were able to kill the aboleth and one chuul, but at the cost of one of the characters. That PCs body was dragged off by the chuul. This was one of those times where the randomness of things worked out perfectly, because that character was one of the ones with the most magic items on them - and chuul are drawn to that. Later that PCs was resurrected, and the player did an excellent job of having psychological problems with the whole affair. (Side note: the group was inducted as members into the lizard folk tribe which involved one of my favorite gaming concepts, I can describe it if you want, it will take a while.) What was going to happen, was the group was going to figure out where the body and the stuff was taken (The Forbidden City) and go there. Well, this would bring them back to the Isle of Dread, which they had escaped from - onto a different world than which they started - about 1 year back, in campaign time. I located the city on the plateau in the center of the isle, right above The Lost City which was above the crashed space ship from Escape from the Barrier Peaks (the malfunctioning FTL drive being why the island jumps from world-to-world, the PCs started out on Greyhawk). The island was being used by the Slavelords as a base of operations to plunder multiple worlds.
Great video as usual :) From what I understood the Forbidden City in 5e Tomb of Annihilation was inspired by the 1e adventure. Although it's not a 1:1 conversion for sure :) Cheers!
Premise for continuing campaign and the Yuan Ti's plan: the Wizard is creating a time portal to a point in time where the Yuan Ti empire was at it's peak and assaulted and captured the city and intends to bring them through into the present. In addition to being an interesting premise in it's own right, this would allow a unique opportunity to explore the forgotten city both in ruins and when it was fully populated. A cool thing to do would allow the players to find their own corpses while exploring the city ruins, and you could give them a tough choice to make for the end, making it impossible to close the time portal from the present, only from the past
Nicely done. I have this one but never ran it. I think I got it years later as they placed it in the World of Greyhawk and I wanted as much from that campaign setting as possible. Sounds like it's a wealth of information. As always, enjoy your stuff a lot. I agree about Saltmarsh - what a fantastic scenario. I'm hoping to start my online Down Darker Trails using those scenarios as the core next month.
@Seth Skorkowsky - any plans on going full Pirate of Drinax series? Have you tried running this one? Any feedback from your side apart from the campaign being awesome?
Haven't played it. Once our current Traveller campaign through the Great Rift wraps up we'll be diving into Cyberpunk Red, so it'll be a while, if ever, I get to play Drinax.
0:41 "unlike other adventures, a party may find the presence of a druid helpful"
Wow, what a burn
Era gag.
I thought the exact same thing, outch ! xD
Savage
Druids were not able to shapeshift until level 6 or something in AD&D. What do you do with a neutral nature priest who can't use metal equipment?
@@joshuaarmstrong2445 Put them in the back with a sling usually.
Let's be real: A 1E adventure that chews through 68 characters is completely plausible.
I understood "6d8 characters".
Or Shadows of Yog-Sothoth
Totally true. First edition modules could be brutal.
Characters yes, players no
😂 ... 😭
It seems like the common theme of this module (as written) is "Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
Ah, yes, 68 characters. One less than the ideal group size.
Nice.
Coach loads of. Characters.... as we used to call it.
You forgot the DM.
The only module that needs 68 characters is the Tomb of Horrors, original edition. You will come out with 6-8 characters when done!
I was gonna like this, but you have 68 likes. That's just too perfect.
This hits me as a source book not an adventure
Pretty much.
Yeah, it seems kind of like the sort of thing WotC has with the setting books, a lot of stuff about the locations and then an adventure to start you off there.
E
Maybe it's just me, but when I GM, all printed adventures are source books
@@JohnSmith-qq7fm Yeah. Personally, I'm a fan of this module because getting a pile of hooks and ideas is more valuable to me than stat blocks and boxed text. That said, I can definitely understand why someone who paid for this module would be upset about having to then do most of the gruntwork themselves.
"The module feels more like a setting than an adventure" is the defining trait of early modules.
Vault of the Drow
Blame stock shares and creative control.
"Unlike many adventures, a druid might be useful." Savage. And how times change.
I was just thinking about you Seth. Not in a creepy way, I was thinking about Scott Brown.
Scott Brown was thinking about their showin'.
@@SSkorkowsky Has anyone ever brought up the former MA Senator in this context?
This module was a clear inspiration for the Tomb of Annihilation.
Came to say this
@@kennethfabacher6421 Same. Omu is literally referred to as "The Forbidden City" and the map is clearly inspired by this module.
Tomb of Annihilation is without a doubt Isle of Dread + Dwellers of the Forbidden City + Tomb of Horrors
Haha came to say the same. Half the stuff Seth describes sounds exactly like what my party ended up doing.
That sounds like the name of a HackMaster adventure.
Played this in the 80's and thoroughly enjoyed it but also couldn't figure out why we never found the Yuan Ti fortress or cave where they were busy planning the rejuvenation of their lost empire. Each week we said , sure to find them this time. I'm embarrassed to say it wasn't till years later I learnt there was no big group of Yuan Ti in the module.
Your commentary has inspired me and I've added in a warehouse and three different Yuan Ti encampments, a giant snake a la Timothy Varley's Wizard Titan Demon series. Also added a few more abandoned temples including one to the Egyptian Crocodile god Sobek buried in the Lake. It's giving my 18 year old self some closure for weeks and weeks of fruitless searching for a final Yuan Ti fortress that just wasn't there.
I ran this adventure wayyyy back in the late 80s- my group loved it. Instead of several ways down I combined all and made a gauntlet. Once there they encountered a vampire “queen” that had a necklace of Hide Alignment that wanted the tribal warfare stopped etc etc. it was a fun adventure
The whole "and then they betray the party" is why so many of us 1E players went the murderhobo route, once we got into the dungeon at least. At least 80% of hypothetically "friendly" encounters were only pretending to be so to get the drop on the PCs, no matter if it made any sense for the betrayers or not. "No, you can't come with us. Go away now or we'll kill you here and now" was the standard reaction to NPCs. The idea that monsters could be actual people with actual motivations and the ability to genuinely work with the party out of enlightened self-interest was groundbreaking back then.
I gotta love how you goofed at the beginning with "68 characters" and, rather than edit that out, kept it in there just because it was a funny slip-up.
I very nearly just saved it in the "Outtakes" folder for some future outtake reel, but figured it was worth going ahead and including here.
@@SSkorkowsky I can remember playing Runequest in the early 80s with 14 people at the table, and there was one night at the FLGS where 22 people turned up to play the store's open Vampire the Masquerade campaign. That last still gives me nightmares. But 68 would be a bit much - unless maybe it was an OSR funnel game where everyone starts with half a dozen or more zero-level PCs and tries to get one playable survivor at the end of the day, like some deranged fantasy version of Paranoia.
This was the first adventure that I ever ran. Oh. I agree with you about “All That Glitters”. It was a classic!
Hot damn, I've done 12 character tables before but 68 characters?! Imagine the chorus of responses when you ask them "You enter the room. What would you guys do first?"
Honestly if you can actually run 68 players and not want to die your
1.Not human
2.Running an mmorpg
"Alright fellas, now that the recap of last week's session is out of the way, the yuan-ti guards charge at you. If I can get everyone to roll initiative we can get everyone's turns lined up for the encounter we'll be having next week. Before we wrap up, I'd like to once again thank Dave for lending us the use of his auditorium for this week's session."
68 characters does not necessarily mean 68 players at the same time
Setting I1 in Eberron's southern continent of Xen'drik could be an interesting option. The Forbidden City could've belonged to the Dark Elves or Giants so you'd have some guidance for the city's past.
Or move it to the Forgotten Realms' Chult and even place the Tomb of Annihilation inside the city.
I definitely agree with the Eberron choice, that sounds awesome.
I ran my take on this about a year ago. I took a deconstructed Isle of Dread with the central temple farmed out to a separate volcanic island and dropped the Forbidden City into the central mesa with Tomb of Annalation's Yuan-Ti temple replacing the weak yuan-ti showing in this module. Much Polynesian-themed fun was had by all, and I fully expect the players to travel back to the island sometime as they wanted to explore areas they didn't get to. Yes, the underground is way up there on that list.
I love how your (dressed up like a Saxon) warrior PC character wears medieval armor but sounds like a wise guy from Brooklyn. 😆
Yeah, Jack is a great part of Seth’s videos.
Seth is a method actor.
A year or so back I got this manifesto of a comment from a guy saying how much he hated my cringey Jack and The Gang skits, and how I shouldn't take the popularity of my channel as any indicator that anyone actually liked them, because most subscribers merely tolerated them, while I could never know the vast numbers of people who were so turned off by them that they never subscribed. Needless to say, I didn't heed his impassioned advice.
@@SSkorkowsky Ah yes, the “I dislike it so it must be awful” type. I’m glad you ignored him, Seth. I love seeing Jack and the gang when they show up. They add a unique flavor to your content.
Love Jack and the gang
Who else continually forgets that Jack is also Seth!😆😂 Great video, as usual. 🏹⚔️🧙
after 24 minutes I kept thinking about making a little encounter with sad bullywugs returning from a failed raid on the wizard's tower without weapons or armor.
maybe just making a little schedule for when each faction does something would be good enough to flesh it out a bit more
"68 characters."
First time the monsters ever said "Ah hell no! This violates our contract with the dungeon owner."
This was the first major module I set in my game-world in the mid-1980s; I embellished by making a hand-written calligraphic "joke" an "aged" (lightly waved open a candle-flame) parchment saying "Abandon all hope Ye who enter here" where I placed at the entrace location to the module. My players took one look at this prop and promptly decided to leave. It took me many game hours to convince to come back as I had nothing else prepared.
I played this module in high school, so weird to think that the most memorable part was made up by my dungeon master from a plot hook. I still remember my Samurai and his friends charging into a living temple with the bugbears at our back in order to stop the Yuan ti from summoning a tainted god. I legit assumed that was the main thing in this book.
Always say an audible "Hell yeah!" Whenever I see a new Seth video.
It would be fascinating if someone took all those paragraphs and ran with them fully fleshing out each hook and making a complete modern version that acted more like a sourcebook.
Absolutely. If I were WotC I'd be talking to Seth by now about doing precisely that. A hardcover 200 page version updated to 5e (6e?) with modern D&D production values would be flat out awesome.
@@michaelcottle6270 You could even name the chief Pubbe to make that entry retroactively correct!
I’ve done something very much like this for the run of Dwellers I’m doing. I’ve expanded Horan’s area and dropped in several others including a slave pit, a temple of Tsathoggua, a Groaning Spirit in the northern portion of the city, a Step Pyramid (actually shown in the center of the original map) with a Greater Mummy and guarded by an Iron Golem, and swapped out the Pan Lung dragon for a Froghemoth that the Bullywugs offer sacrifices to.
@@danielrowan4716 hey Seth! I've found your co-author 😊
Or there’s Tomb of annihilation. Everything before the tomb. WotC crew said DotFC and Isle of dread were heavy influences for ToA
It's been awhile since a Seth AD&D review. That screwup in the beginning was pretty funny to.
You know it's a great classic AD&D module when it's title could easily be a REH short story.
B4 The Lost City by Tom Moldvay is another one that's basically Red Nails.
We're proud to announce our new module; designed for 68 level 35-45 characters. What is its name you ask? Bombshell.
Throne of Bloodstone. Talk about a slaughterhouse!
Your criticisms mirror those we had when we first played this back in the early 80s: so much potential left on the table unused. While watching this review, though, something struck me: the Forbidden City itself and the the four continuing adventures outlined at the end would be ideal for conversion and development for Modiphius Conan (not surprisingly, given the source).
I always appreciate your AD&D adventure reviews. When I was 13 one of my players gave this to me to run and I remember it being confusing for my young mind; after scaling down the cliffs they started killing mongrelmen until a random encounter killed the party then we switched back to my home brew adventure but I remember that this book had great artwork especially the Tasloi
inside cover art!
Ah, the Bob Ross of Role-playing.
Definitely one for the DIY crowd. Whoever made that list for the magazine must have subscribed to the "module as an inspirational starting point rather than a finished scenario" ideal.
YES! More module reviews! Also, they did take this adventure and merge it with Tomb of Horrors for the 5e adventure "Tomb of Annihilation"
those 2 sections were the main strength of ToA. I kind of feel that if Dwellers simply had a Yuan-Ti temple detailed in its pages with a big fat aboleth being worshipped as a god (and maybe a passage to the underdark if a DM wants to expand the aboleth thing) then a lot of its problems would be solved. Isle of Dread (almost) managed this.
If you find a campaign or adventure, meant for 68 players, please let us know!
The convention "epics" are probably the closest to that you're going to get, being designed to be run through by an entire room full of tables all at once.
Please, more AD&D adventure reviews for us, Seth!
I’m always looking forward to new rpg reviews from you.
I was looking away when you said “68 characters”. I was like, WAT
68 characters at 47th level, preferably.
Old school groups did tend to be larger, but perhaps not quite that much. :)
@@richmcgee434 Amusingly, in the original D&D booklets from 1974, it mentions "up to fifty players, and one patient referee."
I'm trolling the comments for the living legends out to tell us they've run bigger groups.
'the chieftains name is Poo-bay...or...Pube.'
Seth: I'm going to tell you about the adventure from the GM and player point-of-view.
Seth (as Jack the NPC): And I'm here to give you a break from Seth's yammering face.
Oh, if only Dweebles and the others could do that as well.
Yesterday I saw your review on 'The secret of Bone Hill' again to assess if I could use it as a sandbox setting for a new campaign.
That's why I thought this video was just a youtube recommendation of something I saw before. But no, it was a completely new review! I was happy to see it.
Even though we have been plowing through Chult the last few months and it all feels somewhat familiar, it is always good to hear your advice on enhancing an adventure plotwise with you fixes.
I think "Pube" was mentioned in an issue of the Dragon.
Top stuff as usual. I can relate to the chief who doesn't know his son's name - my grandad had 17 grandchildren and he used to just reel names off until the one he was talking to answered
Yay! Never ran it or played in it but bought it when it first came out. I liked it a lot. And I see how there is this 1 obscure encounter has been made into something Lovecraftian in later DND...
Do you think you will ever do a video on how to design a dungeon?
Good idea. +1
Back in 79/80 we did a big all day suday dnd session based on red nails we had a larger 4x8 dungeon with different teams entering from different sides
Jack is the Eternal Champion, appearing in all times and universes.
Nowhere near angsty enough. Elric won't even return his calls.
He's the Eternal Snarker.
LOL.. Hey Seth.. as a veteran DM, I just incorporated this module into my latest campaign. I butchered it. Everything you said is true! I was watching saying, "Did that, did that, had to make that myself too" . It is a great framework for adventure, but like you said it took me a lot of work.
Hey Seth S, Love this review. THANKS for making it.
From todays standards, with the internet and breadth of content, I agree looking at it with all that we have now. Yes it feels lacking and with out clear direction.
I do feel it is one of the best of all time because I am an old gamer.
Back when this came out in 81 or 82 it was a GOLD MINE of idea's and plot threads. It was chocked full of monsters, plots places and imagination. I was 14 years old and as a DM this was so much more then a single night of adventuring which many of the first modules where actually designed for being based on 4 hours tournament games. This was months and months of gaming. The Fiend Folio was not even out yet. We only had the Monster Manual to review and as a DM I loved presenting monsters that my players had not read over and over. This added to so many new and wonderful creatures and the ART and 3dMap. Blew us away. If memory serves me correct it preceded the Dragon Lance modules and their amazing 3d maps. We didn't have the internet, and Dragon only came out once a month and I could not always afford it to feed us idea's and adventures. We waited week by week month by month for a NEW module or hard cover to arrive in our Train Hobby Shop way in the back corner behind all the Important stuff....( Did my Dad just come out and talk about walking to school barefoot up hill both ways) And when this sort of mega module came out it was a feast.
Thanks for your fantastic and entertaining videos . Your adventure idea's changes and additions are great as well and enjoyed.
I loved playing this adventure as a kid, my DM played it as is.
From the epic bridge combat, to my monk player saving the day as we battled the rust monster. The fighter ran in fear! He had just found a suit of plate mail.
The new monster we discovered and fought. Tasloi riding a wasp, Then fighting the Yuan Ti and Bullywug for the first time.
The whole jungle experience was great!
And we accept a quest from the Pan Lung Dragon after crushed most of the Bullywugs. He said he would eat or help the bullywug defeat the bugbears.
Ah good times and a great review!
My very first DM used Dwellers of the Forbidden City as the framework for our first campaign. We had a great time. Like you, I didn't realize until much later that he had added all of our favorite parts.
Great review as always. So wild you did this one, Seth. I modded it for NWN years ago, and there seems to be a renewed interest in it now.
Seth, I am currently running DotFC 1e (original print) version for my group. I’ve really taken off on the sandbox feel and added in a good number of encounter areas and expanded on Horan the evil Wizard a good deal. You can easily expand it to be a campaign center piece. I went with a series of pregenerated PCs each with a different motivation to go to the city. My group had a great time
5e did Kind of do that to this book, the Lost City of Omu chapter in Tomb of Annihilation was very much inspired by Dwellers of the Forbidden City
I LOVE your DnD module reviews. Wish you did this more often - perhaps on some of the more recent ones!
The main thing I remember about this module was it having all these frankly horrific monsters I'd never seen before ( I was a cheapskate DM that only owned the Monster Manual) which offset how vague as a scenario it was.
Great stuff, as always.
Great ideas that were left up to the DM to flesh out. Probably my biggest gripe with some of these early AD&D modules. I loved the vibe of this module, but it really feels like a fantastic lost opportunity. I was pretty young when I got my hands on this, and didn't really understand what to do with it. I felt that many of the early Basic Expert modules were much more user friendly simply because of their clarity of purpose and I'd have loved to see that accessibility with these AD&D ones (especially this one!). Still... I was obsessed with that map!
I agree with you. But you are a bit severe. Those modules are full of innovations and new monsters. They aren't the most playable adventures and I wouldn't suggest buying this to most DM. But it's pretty relevant as a piece of D&D history. Playing those modules is like watching a really old movie. YMMV but an interesting read nonetheless.
It does clearly illustrate how the hobby has significantly changed over the decades. One's perspective on whether that's for good or ill likely directly relates to when one entered the hobby.
As a measure of my age, I had to Google YMMV! 😅 Don't get me wrong, I genuinely love this module for many reasons and it was my first Ad&d purchase on DriveThruRPG. I had Pharaoh the same year and I found that straight forward to run - a more complete package and a clearer layout. I know that was 2 or 3 years later, but Slave Pits was a similar vintage to Dwellers and managed to bridge the gap between competitive play and an actual adventure.
I remember there being carnivorous apes, a giant hedgehog, and a Yuan-Ti abomination. This is definitely one that's really more of a DM sandbox than anything else.
This was the first adventure I ever played as a player. I was maybe 6 or 7 years old in the way back machine.
Tournament games do not automatically transition into good campaign games - but this one did give us Yuan Ti.
I am currently running tomb of annihilation and I think the city of Omu takes some inspiration here.
I LOVE these reviews! You give great recaps of adventures from a previous generation. I especially like how you point out taking what we LIKE about pre-written adventures and skipping over parts which don’t fit the table’s taste.
Man, that 68 characters thing at the beginning caught me off guard. I got a pretty good laugh out of it ahaha! Great video, as always!
I actually love listening to this while I work. It's as close as I can get to playing D&D while working.
I fully agree about how great it would be to see this fleshed out into a 5e adventure book. It has some great ideas. Someone get on that, stat!
They did it is in Tomb of Annihilation
The first module I ever bought at a mall back in the 80's. Returned to that same mall decades later, and it was like a ghost town, none of the vibrancy of the mall back when I bought the module. Eerie how the buying experience is like the game, a ruined city, a shadow of its former vibrancy.
When will we be getting another war story? I'm not sure which is even my favorite, but I love them all!
Who knows?
It may come as an unexpected surprise. (When someone says: Bombshell!)
Surprise video like scott brown bustin in!
Same here, played this module, lved it, great memories, we sided with the bullywogs and they took over, but also when I bought this I was surprised. That's a great GM for you. Keep up the great work. 😎🤘
I like the idea of the totem pole having magic mouth spells that start to chant the opening chant of the song the Lion Sleeps Tonight, and just as they reach the village the rest of the song starts up!
Just discovered your channel. Fantastic job on covering these somewhat forgotten adventures.
Hello Seth, seems like forever since you have done a D&D video. Trust me when I say "I'm not complaining, love your content!" Thank you for bringing the Tasloi to my attention. Dave from NA, once said something about hairy jungle goblins that rode giant wasp, I always wondered what the inspiration was behind that. Now I know, lol. You and Jack are 100% right, WotC should make this module into a expanded campaign. These old school modules where all set up the same way, everybody betrays you. You know Seth, it just how it was done back then. I would have only one group or NPC betray the adventuring party. I had forgotten how great this module is!
Thanks Seth you have a wonderful day!
As always, awesome review. Now I need to do a walkthrough and review of the I1 Mod.
Seth, I think you should write up these further adventures and publish them on the DM's Guild.
U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh - one of the best I've ever played. Around this tiny village I created a lovely set of scenarios. Village doomed to be raided, with a plotting evil cleric hoping to reestablish a lost cult, and my players insired by the Seven Samurai, mentoring villagers to the victory.
played a mongrel man psionicist in this in Adnd 2e, years ago. I remember polymorphing into a giant umberhulk and burrowing through the ruined tunnels as a shortcut and surprising the yuan ti. fun times, especially with the other mongrel man in my party and discovering our npc buddies in the forbidden city, great reunion!
Nice! Kicking it old school.
Thank you for continuing these classic reviews. This is how I found your channel. :)
Your list of top old school modules is spookily similar to my favourites. Saltmarsh, Reptile God, Glitters. Did you ever try The Sentinel and The Gauntlet? Very good old school U.K. written modules. Best ever were the original Desert of Desolation I series. Sailing on the glass sea was memorable.
Great stuff!!
Can you do a review of Lankhmar?
I had that as a teen and our group LOVED it!
The 1e Lankhmar book was extremely influential for me. Got me into Leiber, Sword & Sorcery, and without it I wouldn't have written my Black Raven series.
@@SSkorkowsky The influence shows. Which is a compliment, if that wasn't apparent. :)
This module appears to be the inspiration for the lost city Omu in 5e Tomb of Annihilation.
I LOVE these old school AD&D module reviews!
Seth, I'd love to hear you review just one DCC module. They seem to be the closest thing I've found to resembling the original AD&D modules, in spirt and form. With all your experience playing D&D over the many years I'd love to see what you think of their adventure modules.
DCC is great. Got that old sword & sorcery feel, with dangerous magic and more interesting options for melee droogs. Goodman Games currently has a Beginner's Bundle on sale for a very nice price.
@@NefariousKoel I can't get past the meatgrinder garbage personally.
@@B.-T. - Then skip it and start at level 1. The Level-0 funnel is optional.
I ran an old-school classics campaign a few years ago that started with Against the Cult of the Reptile God, then did Dwellers of the Forbidden City, then The Gates of Firestorm Peak, then Castle Amber. Dwellers is very sandboxy so I helped streamline their experience to just the main quest - I think they really enjoyed several encounters from the module, both combat and RP. Playing the factions off one another to gain access to the big boss is always fun. They didn't encounter the aboleth nor the dragon, and didn't explore the city much.
I used this same adventure for the start of a campaign. I actually converted the whole thing to the Basic Roleplaying Game from Chaosium. It went really well and transfered easy. What happen in our game was that a storm came in and the ship they were on going somewhere else flounder on the rocks of a island. While exploring the island the PCs stumbled onto the city, and the found the cheif's son.
Forbidden City, eh? Sounds like a good place to substitute Sleestack for Yuan-Ti. The LotL soundtrack would be awesome to play while running this "module".
I agree about the module coming off as unfinished, I remember initially really liking it but then realizing the Yuan-Ti never show up again after the entrance encounters....
Also despite being inspired by Red Nails, it really lacks the odd fatalistic decadence that story presented. The conflicts are all very vaguely defined, without the indication that these cultures are pretty much doomed from the start from their petty quarrels.
PS: Did you notice the Cthulhu statues snuck in the map art?
I am glad you give kudos to the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Repile God, intro adventures that my friends liked a lot and that were fun to DM.
I think I'm gonna swipe these maps for my own campaign's ruined subterranean swamp city that has five factions fighting for dominance with one of them wanting to rebuild the empire. Considering that I was planning to use your dungeon cards to plan out the paths to get to the city, but was drawing a blank on the guard points and the city itself, this is a godsend.
Thank you for so many great ideas for add-on adventures.
What I (almost) did with it:
Back when I was running my D&D 5e isle of Dread campaign, the PCs were in Karameikos helping out the lizard folk (from U2 Danger at Dunwater) repel an attack. This attack was from an aboleth and its 2 chuul servants. They were able to kill the aboleth and one chuul, but at the cost of one of the characters. That PCs body was dragged off by the chuul. This was one of those times where the randomness of things worked out perfectly, because that character was one of the ones with the most magic items on them - and chuul are drawn to that. Later that PCs was resurrected, and the player did an excellent job of having psychological problems with the whole affair. (Side note: the group was inducted as members into the lizard folk tribe which involved one of my favorite gaming concepts, I can describe it if you want, it will take a while.)
What was going to happen, was the group was going to figure out where the body and the stuff was taken (The Forbidden City) and go there. Well, this would bring them back to the Isle of Dread, which they had escaped from - onto a different world than which they started - about 1 year back, in campaign time. I located the city on the plateau in the center of the isle, right above The Lost City which was above the crashed space ship from Escape from the Barrier Peaks (the malfunctioning FTL drive being why the island jumps from world-to-world, the PCs started out on Greyhawk). The island was being used by the Slavelords as a base of operations to plunder multiple worlds.
I really, really want to run this one, but I only have 67 players. Any tips?
Clearly you must make a DMPC and upstage all of your players with your valuable insight and amazing, carefully picked skills and spells.
@@JPChereb DMPC: "Stand back, I've got this!"
67 Player Chorus: "Again?"
Great video as usual :)
From what I understood the Forbidden City in 5e Tomb of Annihilation was inspired by the 1e adventure. Although it's not a 1:1 conversion for sure :) Cheers!
Sweet! A new AD&D review!
Premise for continuing campaign and the Yuan Ti's plan: the Wizard is creating a time portal to a point in time where the Yuan Ti empire was at it's peak and assaulted and captured the city and intends to bring them through into the present. In addition to being an interesting premise in it's own right, this would allow a unique opportunity to explore the forgotten city both in ruins and when it was fully populated. A cool thing to do would allow the players to find their own corpses while exploring the city ruins, and you could give them a tough choice to make for the end, making it impossible to close the time portal from the present, only from the past
the module sounds like a proto-location sourcebook, which is pretty cool. Still, stats for described new monsters would always be nice.
26:51 Could that be a sign that you should make a video about rival adventuring parties?
I can't believe you left that blooper in Seth that's freaking hilarious
Love You Seth! Another great video.
Nicely done. I have this one but never ran it. I think I got it years later as they placed it in the World of Greyhawk and I wanted as much from that campaign setting as possible. Sounds like it's a wealth of information. As always, enjoy your stuff a lot. I agree about Saltmarsh - what a fantastic scenario. I'm hoping to start my online Down Darker Trails using those scenarios as the core next month.
@Seth Skorkowsky - any plans on going full Pirate of Drinax series? Have you tried running this one? Any feedback from your side apart from the campaign being awesome?
Haven't played it. Once our current Traveller campaign through the Great Rift wraps up we'll be diving into Cyberpunk Red, so it'll be a while, if ever, I get to play Drinax.
Run this module, but put it on top of the plateau from Isle of Dread as the end point for Isle of Dread.
Just sayin.