4 Light Twins that can Replace Overpriced Singles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2023
- Those in the market for a plane that can carry 4 passengers always want a Cessna or a Cirrus. When they realise, they can’t afford one, they consider other options. Single engine market has some pretty great offerings, but why don’t anyone ever look in the direction of twins? if you define the GA twin engine plane market is as dead, you wouldn’t be wrong. Diamond Aircraft control more than half of all GA twin sales, because their planes are the best or the segment is completely overlooked? how great are planes in this segment?
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At 4:14 into the video, the commentator misstates the Diamond twin's fuel consumption as "miserable" instead of "miserly" as shown in the accompanying subtitle.
The quoted SE service ceiling for the DA42 is also wrong; 4000' would apply only on an extremely hot day. On a standard 15° C day it's more like 7000-8000'.
4000' max applies to Seminoles.
Kinda the exact opposite ….
Compared to a single, the consumption is miserable, not miserly.
No mention of the Twin Comanche, probably the best personal piston engine aircraft ever made.
I will second that.
"Even with one engine shut down there is enough power to arrive at the scene of the accident.'
It is unfortunate that so many of the DA42 specs are grossly inaccurate. The SE service ceiling is 16,000’ (on a standard day, 50 feet/minute SE climb rate). Fuel consumption is ridiculously low in the Diamond twins (and DA40 with the Austro). The author should really put in correction captions in the video - detracts from credibility otherwise. Also, the piece starts out by talking why people looking at expensive singles for their personal flying should consider light twins as an alternative (agreed), but then concludes that the “Seminole is going to remain the number 1 choice for the training market.” Talk about completely changing the point of your video! I also think the Tecnam twin is a nice alternative to a lot of other 140 knot personal singles - and their new interiors are among the nicest in the segment, actually, right up there with Diamond interiors (much nicer than a Seminole interior….)
Twin engine aircraft are an excellent value and safer than singles IF: proper training, and maintenance is present.
The reason statistics show otherwise is myriad events where the second engine gets you out of trouble, no one ever knows and no data is recorded.
Interesting fact is fatalities are higher in twins with a single engine failure, than engine failure in a single. This is counterintuitive at first, but makes sense as so many singles are slow. Cheers
Great video, I did my multi engine command instrument rating on the Duchess, and did one renewal on the Tecnam P2006T, great planes and fun to fly
Diamond go to commercial schools for commercial reasons. Best twin cheap, Seminole. Next Duchess.
Great video, If you would be good if you added a comparison of rental rates, single engine service ceiling and complexity of engine failure for each model listed.
Those specifications on the Seminole are quite optimistic. If you want to cary 4 people they have to average 135lbs or you can't fly with full tanks. It's a great trainer, but you'd be better off with any number of singles over the Seminole.
I am one of the caretakers of 5 count them 5 BE-76 Duchess and yes finding parts for these fun well designed airplanes is not easy.
Throw in the fact that the last AD on the A-frames of the landing gear will set you back 9000 k $ per side to be compliant and you can see why these lovely ladies are slowly disappearing 😢.
So you are left with the choice to do the MANDATORY 100 hour NDI testing on said PN: ( it is a real pain taking it off every 100) and send out for testing by a level 2 NDI tester.
All this said i still love them. 😂 good luck.
Cessna skymaster… with GAMIs, 18gph 150 knots, 1000 miles, with full fuel AND 950 pounds in the cabin. Under 75k for non turbo.
I have done my MEP training in the tecnam P2006T and I can say it is really cold in there, having the two engines far away from the cockpit. Maybe it is better in the summer.
In summer it's an oven until you get airspeed(=airflow into the cabin).
And it's smaaaaaaaall. I'm 188cm tall, and should need 10cm more cabin height to have headroom. Nice airplane, but it was a pleasure to get out of it after flight...
And the single engine performance....dear god...
Light twins are not under rated. The light twins that have similar performance figures as big singles and were only intended to be used for training are over rated.
Let's, take a look, Light twins in general cannot Fly on only One engine. Engine overhauls are expensive and you have two of them to do. Operating costs are higher in general. These are the main reasons why light twins are cheap and not as popular as singles. Yes I own a single and have for over 40 years.
If they couldn't fly on one engine, then all would crash. You never hear of the one's that fly and land on one engine.
@@flybobbie1449, David is right: light twins on a single engine can pretty much only fly you to your crash site, most likely in a spin "configuration". Asymetric thrust, increased workload and unrecoverable spins are the reason light twins are generally used for training only. Much cheaper and safer to fly a well-maintained single
My school has 11 Da-42s, and at any giving time, there are 4-5 operational, the others have engines problems, since they are over-complicated engines, and it takes several weeks to get parts in.
We had them years ago, engines always dropping back to reduced power.
where did you find the 240/hr rental for the tecnam?
Where did you get your specs. on the Diamond DA-42? You are way off on engine horsepower and single engine performance. Max. single engine altitude is 16,000 ft with much better climb rate to that altitude than you specify. With 168 hp per side it is a good performer with better Jet A1 consumption than most comparable single engine planes.
Was going to mention that as well. This data sounds like the old Thielert engines and not the Austro at 168hp per engine. Also, I get around 160+ knots at 8k ft at 80% power at 14gph total. If I push hard at around 90% I'll get 172knots at 16gph.
@@colbogus2947 Well since you fly a DA-42, does it have a zero fuel limit ?? What is the SE service ceiling & SE climb rates {gross weight} {semi gross weight - 80%} {standard day ??} {"summer day ??}. Are his useful load numbers accurate ??
He was off with the seminole specs too.
@@A.J.1656 That's what I thought too but was not 100% sure. I don't want to be like that You Tuber from Atlanta {the one who busted a Bravo recently} who "reviews" airplanes and says, "yea ugh here we have a Piper Cherokee, and if you''ll look it comes with a propeller. Under the cowl is a piston engine either 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder with a horse power range as low as 25 horse power and as high as 1378 horse power. Now your cruise speeds on this Piper Cherokee are going to be anywhere between 42 miles per hour and 2367 miles per hour. Now what you carry in the cabin will determine how much gas you can carry. But on the Piper Cherokee your fuel load can be anywhere from 7 gallons total to 5635 gallons total. Now let's look inside. I could be wrong, but I think the Piper Cherokee comes with rudder pedals , but I'm not sure, but take a look at this, the Piper Cherokee comes with alligator skin seats and gold plated trim and I'm not sure if the seats are adjustable - now your price for this piper Cherokee is going to run you anywhere between 16 dollars to 3 1/2 million dollars - so that's my review for the Piper Cherokee". Ha !!!
@@mustardseedsociety
🤣
That's funny.
Why can't you make the fuslog out of plxecyglass!!. Then you could see rilly good
Twice the maintenance cost… twice the fuel
You forgot Twice the experience of flying planes for personal use
Rental rates are a bit off in my opinion. For example a Tecnam P2006 in my local flight school is $435/hr wet.
Highway robbery
You want find a twin in UK below £500 hour ($600). Reason i haven't flown or done training in one for 20 years.
At 1:38. - those props look pretty bent out of shape??
They are. That airplane landed with props rotating.
The tecnam twin burns the same amount of fuel as a 172 yet cruises like a 182. Higher overhaul costs are worth it for the spare engine IMO.
Experimentals fly faster than 182 while getting fuel flow of 172...
I thought Tecnam was some concern it's single eng. performance on training.
Open question to anyone who wants to answer because I literally can't find the information - is Piper still producing the Seneca V ?? On the Piper website, they do NOT list it in their "aircraft model" list. I even contacted Piper and never got a reply. I googled it a dozen times and can't find anything. So if anyone knows the answer, please give us the scoop. Thanks.
You can buy, I think, a minimum order of five. So if you’re a school then yes you can if you want 5+ but if you just want one, then no. Shame
@@philrandell8069 Thanks for the info. That would be about a 5 million dollar order. I guess in theory if you had really really good credit, or you just had a fat bank account, order 5 and sell 4, or you could lease 4. Frankly I think the dumbest thing that Piper did was quit producing the Aztec.
If you've flown a Seminole then you know it's a bad twin to own for anyone that's not a flight school. The useful load is almost always eaten up by the fuel and the CoG is almost impossible to get aft into standards with full tanks. The fuel consumption and cruise speeds really aren't that impressive.
OK 2 up if you need to cross water.
So he proved you want none of those
Why buy a DA62 for $1.5M when you can get a much more roomy and capable C340A RAM 5 for under $200K. just the interest on the $1.3M price differential will more than cover the increased operating costs
I think you might be confusing the DA42 (in this video) with the DA62. The 62 is not a "light twin" by virtue of weight and cargo. It has six seats, versus 4, for instance.
The preference for a 30/40 year old Cessna 340 with replaced/overhauled engines versus a new airframe is maybe another topic for discussion, but they are not comparable in cost terms. "New versus old" is a well worn topic, and there is no single answer for all.
Yup. one thing the DA42 has over many light twins is that it can actually climb on one engine.
@@richardscott8305 Yup. Diamond likes to say, "the second engine is there as a backup." I think that's mostly marketing, but I suppose it is true if you are not loaded up with weight. I'm not completely sold on the DA42 for other reasons, but it's near the top of the list for our family cruiser. We live on the coast, and also will fly over sparse areas. I'm also an early person (like 2AM early), so night flying is a sure thing. Nice to have options.
I live in southeast USA and did a lot of over water flights and IFR in bad weather. That's why I loved my C340; pressurized, AC, weather radar, and cabin class so the munchkins could move around and my wife could easily come up front without climbing over seats. I loved your DA62 video.
@@richardscott8305 Sorry, not my video. I'm just a lurker like you.
Your post made me look at the C340; I'm going to give it a look over. While I think we'd prefer something new, it's hard to argue with decades of success. Just afraid to go down the A/D, STC, TBO rabbit hole with someone else's plane. Especially if it was a trainer. Yikes.
Thanks.
It’s expensive enough to maintain one engine. And if there is no significant performance boost, then what’s the point.
The Seminole flies like garbage, the Dutchess flys very nice. More useful load, larger cabin. Much nicer airplane
Seminole is cute like a Mini car, Duchess like old Range Rover.
Fastest i have been in Duchess was a 220 kt ground speed. We did Dublin to Wolverhampton in 43 minutes, quicker than airliner flying the airway route to Birmingham..
Beech Baron ...
Well here’s the thing. Twins don’t fly very well on one engine and you’ve got two engines to worry about. I’ll stick with my single engine Cherokee.
Paupers point of view.
VMC was mentioned with the Seminole aircraft. This aircraft having counter rotating propellers is a safety factor which can not be denied, however............by definition as per the FAR's (Federal Aviation Regulations) the VMC (velocity of minimum control) With the aircraft loaded to maxim weight to the aft center gravity limit at sea level on a standard atmospheric day with the "CRITICAL" engine inoperative or windmilling VMC is reached at the point where directional control can not be maintained.
By definition the word "CRITICAL" engine has to be there. Surprise ! ! ! ! ! any twin engine aircraft that has counter rotating engines, example, Piper Seminole will NOT HAVE a VMC speed. There are several other twin engine aircraft that have counter rotating engines. Now the BAD side of C/R engines. NOT good for multi engine training or flight test. There are a lot and I do mean a lot of twin engine aircraft that are used for multi engine training. On any check ride the student has to demonstrate the control down to and recovery from VMC. This can not be done with an aircraft having counter rotating engines.
Background: Me ATP licensed flight instructor airplanes, instrument airplanes and multi engine instructor. Total flight time 14,000+ hours. Also captain for two commuter airlines and prior to that flew cargo form Florida to Central and South America, the Caribbean and the Bahamas, lastly air-frame and power plant licensed mechanic. I do think I know what I am talking about.
Every multi engine has a VMC with the exception of a C336/337 with centerline thrust. If you believe there is no VMC in any airplane with engines mounted on the wing because of counter rotating props is in serious need of education. Recovery from VMC is never done on a check ride. Too many people have been killed while doing a VMC demonstration for training. Getting into an unrecoverable flat spin is 100% fatal.
I'm literally looking at a Seminole manual right now and it lists Vmca as 56 KIAS, though it notes this is a stalled condition.
Yea. Miserable. Hahaha
Yeahhh sorry but no. They are OVERRATED if anything