Why GER vs Tusk Act 4 Isn't Even Close
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2023
- This topic has been heavily debated about in the JoJo community for awhile, and no matter who you have winning, it will always be a massive stomp for the loser, which is why today I'll be explaining, Why GER vs Tusk Act 4 Isn't Even Close...
Why GER ISN'T As Strong As You Think: • Why GER ISN'T As Stron...
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Alright, next two videos won't be GER related lol, promise. But when I do return with some GER content it will be addressing comments in previous videos so be prepared! "B-But Jooooobeeeeer, you only used non humanoid stand stats for GER!", make sure y'all watch or rewatch my GER debunk video again please, Kiss, a humanoid stand, has stats only refering to its stand ability lol (Edit: At around 3:11 I made a small mistake saying Johnny can use ALL of TA4's abilities without a horse, that's not necessarily true per say, but the point that's true is that Johnny can use TA4 without a horse or any weird setup, not like this impacts the results of the fight because at worst, Johnny would just setup all of TA4's abilities with his horse while GER just lets him do that lol)
Another Edit: I have a new video regoing over GER 6 months later, some of my thoughts have changed th-cam.com/video/pFRG-gZvcQ8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZHDjf8KJWZhXkmCf
GER haters were eatin good for a while, but any content from you is hype worthy
wdym he can't use it without a horse or setup. He did in the last chapter of part 7?
Hey jobber, if you actually had to assume tusk's speed feats, how would you rank him over some other stands?
@@zaneplayztmcsgo2252tbh honest the inf rotation is sometimes inconsistent. Like one time it can phase through objects and not affect them but another time it does. Now you could say that johnny can control who or what the infinite rotation affects, but when johnny gets touched by diego's spinning leg, he just lets the infinite rotation affect him. Also one time the IR has to only touch you to completely affect you but another time. It comes in this weird bubble gum-looking blob that has to run up your entire body before you can be fully effected.
@@zaneplayztmcsgo2252I think Araki just changed his mind about johnny only being able to use act 4 with the horse, because the were multiple time where johnny could used act 4 to punch something but just didn't.
The thing that Tusk Act 4 has over GER is the fact that we actually got to see Tusk Act 4 not only be overpowered but also shown to not be the end all be all to a fight. We saw Tusk Act 4’s limitations through the multiple times it’s been used while GER only got shown once leaving many to come to their own conclusions.
Which is why this video is stupid.
i had a fucking stroke trying to read this
@@aarcadeee same tbh
@@aarcadeee Basically he's saying ACT 4 has the definitive advantage of not being a one time power up - that being, Johnny gets Act 4 and uses it for the rest of SBR against another extremely powerful stand (The World) so that its easier to see just how powerful its ability is.
We see it used against Valentine, Johnny himself, and Alt. Diego (plus depending on the Theory, Wonder of U eventually)
Meanwhile GER is used just once against King Crimson and thats it for the rest of the series
Honestly it feels like Araki learned from his mistake with not further delving into the depth of GER's power and the arguments it created when making Tusk ACT 4
@@starsilverinfinity thanks for the explanation, helped alot
GER is so situation-specific, Tusk Act 4 couldn't even be in the same universe.
The ONE thing you got objectively wrong in this video is that Johnny can use the infinite spin whenever he wants. He's able to SUMMON TA4 to use it's physical capabilities and regular spinning, but infinite spin still requires a horse. As seen when it required Steel to bring Johnny back on a horse to reverse the rotation on himself. He also needed his horse to use the infinite spin on his son.
You are correct, please look at my pinned comment where I address that
@@JobberGodot oh sorry lol, I don’t usually read comments from the creator unless they tell you to in the video, mb 😅
Nah it’s all good fam 😅
Araki: *adds ability cuz it sounds cool and looks cool without thinking ab all the details*
The fan base:
I think claiming araki know multiverse > universe is a pretty fair assumption
i was convinced until he said "causality manipulation is just a fancy way to say time manipulation." immediately disregarded
Thanks for the heads up, I always read comments before watching videos, and that is the dumbest thing I heard today.
Well, time is literally DEFINED as the flow of causality, as the continuous movement from cause to effect. So anything that, say, reverses causality is essentially going back in time.
@@moroccannerd35 with shows like JoJo, causality is usually defined as a transcendental thing which acts above space, time, and most other dimensions. For example, Stand Users naturally being attracted to eachother started out as a mere convenience for Part 3 to get the ball rolling faster and explain away unlikely interactions. But as Araki developed the idea (especially in Part 8), weaving in this natural pull as some sort of law of reality which acts on a higher level than most other laws is pretty cool. In a 10-D system, it would pretty much be the upper 3 (4) being Informational, while the bottom 3 are spacial and next 3 are temporal.
In ger's case it is just manipulating time for diavolo every time he dies
The thought of GER and Giorno hovering there with the menace of a supervillain, only for Johnny to just casually raise his hand and fire a single shot, instantly killing Giorno has got to be the funniest god damn thing I've thought of today.
You honestly think that would happen bro?
@@Pao-kr7eg I get that but why in the world would GER let that happen it’s impossible brethren
@idc9ine I'm simply following the logic of the video.
I don't know who would actually win, as it depends highly on whether they'd actually fight and even if they do GER is only seen once, and thus we don't have enough information as to how it's ability would interact with another stand.
@@skeepodoop5197 tbh it will be a stalemate
Ger wont let that hit lol
also, GER being more reactive, would probably let Tusk 4 hit GER, which would be a big mistake💀
Where do you get the idea of GER would let anyone hit it? We only see it in one fight and and diavolo couldnt touch Gio or GER
@demekagamine8197 Go watch my GER video like I said in this video regarding those specific questions like that please, as I will not repeatedly answer the same questions in the comments section
@@demekagaminee just said ta4 transcends Revert to zero so ger is gonna stand there, activate then realize it’s not working then die. Probably
facts. if ta4 tries to punch and ger just blocks, johnny and tusk already won
@@Zany-no it would not
I wish Araki gives us more scenarios on what GER can do and ir's capabilities, but for now it's just some one-off stand that was massively faster then Diavolo and had a decent ability
To be fair, Giorno, Josuke and those who are still alive are technically in the new universe. Not sure if Araki is gonna do something with them though but it is possible.
@@theshatteredghosttuber The universe that Pucci created and the universe with steel ball run and jojolion aren't the same.
@@rayankhan4327 Probably meant like if araki was ever going to reuse the main universe or not.
Jodio new Giorno?
wtf? RTZ is at the very least infinite regeneration. decent my ass. and if u take statements at face value then its fate reversal which would be more than enough to stop a soul hit by tusk act 4 from getting deleted
Small correction, TUSK Act 4 doesn't transcend time stop as completely as implied. It achieves an effect similar to C-Moon where it can partially move and retain awareness, but I doubt it'd be able to be fully autonomous in stopped time.
I recommend you reread Johnny TA4 vs Diego TW as Diego literally stated that TA4 can move in Timestop due to it’s transcendence/crossing over of dimensions because of the stands gravity, and when TA4 is shot a second time, it’s completely mobile in Timestop, with full immunity and awareness, enough so that it goes to attack Diego in Timestop, only for it to kill innocent people Diego used as a meat shield to protect himself from TA4 in Timestop
@@JobberGodot I'm sorry, but I just did reread that section of the manga... and that is not what happens.
To begin with, Diego saying that TA4 can move in timestop due to gravity is no different from Jotaro saying that Pucci "dodged during my time stop." Did Pucci ACTUALLY dodge during the time stop? No, but he had awareness during so that he could avoid the harpoon AFTERWARDS since the harpoon only actually resumes movement after time stop ends.
Secondly, time stop is not used before Diego has the meatshield. Time isn't stopped at that point. Diego even says he has no idea when to stop time because he doesn't know where Johnny is underground. He uses it once the female fans have already gotten on the horse, and he uses it then specifically because it stops TUSK from repositioning it's fist or punching through them and reaching him. Meaning it's movement, is indeed stopped.
Johnny even shoots at Diego later with the infinite spin after this point for the final time, and time stop completely stops the bullet and dodges it. Then, the bullet loops back around AFTER time stop and hits Diego, where he doesn't stop time.
Both Pucci’s and TA4’s use of Gravity while similar are vastly different in scope/power. Pucci is shown that he can only be aware during Timestop, while TA4 is not only aware but physically twitched it’s finger, as well as the infinite rotation still being static/active during Timestop which is why Diego didn’t touch the stand during Timestop in the first place cause after that he admits that he would’ve lost then and there if he decided to touch TA4 in Timestop, especially due to him saying the stand and infinite rotation crosses over into stopped time.
Your second point, which I’ll assume you’re trying to be genuine maybe, must lead me to believe that you might be color blind, because when Johnny shoots TA4 a second time, the color of the panels change to the color of stopped time, and it once again shows TA4 unaffected and still having its color while heading towards and attacking Diego on his horse, Diego visibly stops time twice in the scenario of TA4 being fired a second time.
Also you’re final point doesn’t help you at all because when the TA4 bullet is fired the final time, it still moves and progresses during Timestop
@@JobberGodot I'll concede, would have been a lovely debate without the ad hominem.
@@JobberGodotbtw do you think Made in Heaven (if pucci was aware of it) would be able to completely ignore stopped time seeing as how Tusk Act 4 and C moon both have shown to be able to resist gravity on top of Jotaro’s statement that if Pucci were to be conscious of this they’d be fucked?
I always liked to believe that both GER and TA4 were perfect counter to each other in terms of ability, outside of physical statistics. When GER activates Return To 0, the after-effect is an infinite death loop while TA4's Infinite Rotation inflicts the target to be locked in a state of 0. My take: it's a stalemate without taking physical stats into account.
What? Wouldn’t GER just stop Johnny from ever shooting? 💀
Im never going to agree with the argument that King Crimson doesn’t literally erase time. It goes against both the narrative and what Araki himself was clearly trying to portray. Epitaph’s predictions ARE absolute similar to Toth’s predictions and if king crimson only erased the perception of time then it really wouldn’t really change anything would it? He wouldn’t be able to change his future but the matter of fact is that he is able to change his future. His blood doesn’t actually interact during erased time, it doesn’t apply any force against say Giorno or Polnareff and neither react to it(in this case react means simply affected). The blood only has effect once time resumes and it does so because it’s position has changed due to Diavolo, it was not meant to be there but it can because time is erased this can also be made evident due to the fact that unlike EVERYTHING which is fated to happen the blood does not show a future projection,because again,it has no set future just like Diavolo and King Crimson. This cannot be the case however if only people’s perception of time is being erased. Diavolo being intangible and people not perceiving time are two completely different abilities and by now you should be realising how much of a stretch saying only the perception of time is erased,is compared to the simple answer of time being erased in a universe where fate is an essential part of the cosmology
Edit: 8:58 aw hell naw bro i did not expect you to also think that about the arrow😂
Cope 😈
@@JobberGodot ah well i was expecting an actual argument but ok
@JobberGodot they're right and here's more reasons ur wrong-
for bruno hitting the pillar, you're just assuming that bruno is "able to hit the stone pillar" when this is not stated anywhere. diavolo specifically says multiple times that in his ability he can witness the movements people were fated to make. so, it makes sense that regardless of if bruno can feel the stone pillar and actually hit it, the movement will be the same since it was fated to occur. it doesn't matter if there was nothing there for him to hit, he was going to act that way regardless.
on the blood - the blood does not make any impact and is just the result of diavolo changing his blood's position since he has control over where his body is during time skip. like datboy038 said, there's no predictive path shown for the blood and the characters dont react to it which suggests they are not interacting with it until the ability ends.
- diavolo "becoming intangible" during time skip is a consequence of his ability, and not the ability itself! the stand being described as having "absolute avoidance ability" doesn't mean the same thing as "its ability is absolute avoidance".from a narrative standpoint this also makes sense, as diavolo talks endlessly about filling the pitfall in front of him and such. his motivation is to escape the bad outcomes in his future by skipping over the very time in which those pitfalls could occur, thus erasing the possibility of his downfall.
this also explains how king crimson has what would be 2 abilities under your interpretation, as damage avoidance and erasing perception are two completely different concepts that are not directly related, BUT can be indirectly achieved together through skipping time, which would have the simple and broad consequences of making diavolo invincible and making people unable to perceive or remember those events.
- on "time isnt a spatial dimension" - no impact, ur applying real life concepts of time (which we dont even know are correct) to a series in which users go back in time, stop time, and accelerate time. if diavolo's ability erases time, it just does. it's fiction.
also in universe this doesn't even make sense since time is clearly shown to be preordained, as we see in epitaph's ability, so time is given some kind of dimension by fate.
also under your interpretation, why are stand users only able to erase or affect things that have spatial dimensions? there's simply no suggestion this is true, as stands are shown to affect all kinds of supernatural and non spatial concepts.
on "nothing would move because no time is progressing"- again trying to apply like "common sense" to fiction. obviously that would defeat the purpose of the entire ability, you just have to accept that diavolo's ability allows him to perceive the fated actions that *would* occur during that time. and then he erases it. diavolo having "12 seconds" is the same way dio has "5 seconds". like dio says it doesn't make much sense to think of it in terms of time since time is stopped (or being erased), that's just how the stand user experiences the ability until their stamina runs out.
and yes characters would have inaccessible speed, everything does as a result of his ability since they are moved by fate in a time period that did not exist. your misunderstanding comes from the fact that those characters dont have that speed, it's just fate that moves everything along at that speed. that's literally just what his ability is described and shown to be. you just say that that's "definitely not true" which is not an argument lol
Believe me, you’ll get the response soon in the form of a comments edition video lol
*he’s right, not they’re. It’s just us three rn lol. Anyways not gonna read all that now, will save it for a comments edition video 🥱
The problem with GER is that it will never appear again so we have to work with what we know about it.
What's that problem?
Because there is more we dont know than what we do know
I don’t think we can determine Ger against anyone fairly since as ger clearly said that giorno doesn’t know his full power, and maybe we haven’t seen all of it
I think the best possible fight between these two would be for GER to have to apply all of its causality to temporarily halting one Act 4 shot.
It then would be a battle between GER’s boosted life giver abilities (as a shield to reflect the rotation back on Johnny) and Johnny’s versatility with acts 3 & 4 to land a kill shot.
Would be an interesting fight
when in the actual flying fuck did GER have limited causality manipulation? and RTZ doesent just stop stuff, it reverts it back to when the action was thought of.
@@gamingnamehere1560that’s the causality part. Causality is cause and effect and GER reverts cause in order to remove effect.
Like, you do not get it, imagine johnny does hit giorno, it will literally undo itself, johnny will go back to the start of his attack while giorno approaches to totally beat him up
@@Wonteverknow Return To Zero refers to the attacker's will. Why didn't Giorno revert the will of Pucci's Time Acceleration during Part 6? The whole planet was speeding through night and day in the span of seconds and he just... watched and let everything around him crumble to dust and blow away? RTZ is not reality manipulation. It is specifically manipulating an ATTACKER'S WILL, which naturally follows will revert that attack as well. Hence why he cannot stop Pucci's Time Acceleration since it is not an attack on Giorno's life.
If Giorno fought an enemy, who for example, DIDN'T have a will, what would happen then? That'd be interesting. But better yet here, Johnny's will WOULD be reset and it'd be like he never fired Tusk's shot... except TA4's attack transcends DIMENSIONS. Not, space, nor time; literal planes of existence. It'd appear to Giorno; Johnny having his attack reverted only for the bullet to continue travelling towards Giorno, not stopping for Time Stop, Time Manipulation, Time Rewind, Causality Manipulation, Causality Rewind. Unless you had literal Reality Manipulation, you cannot stop TA4.
@@zakariyaz8233I actually have the answer to that, in Part 5 its shown Giorno’s stand most likely returned to normal because the arrow fell out. But he kept the requiem arrow so he can revert to GER anytime he wants.
Yes except Araki said (up until soft and wet go beyond) that GER is the most powerful stand not to mention GER himself states that no one can reach the truth no matter how powerful they are
k and Araki said Star Platinum is the most powerful stand after during and after GER’s existence, I highly recommend you watch my GER video, as I go pretty in depth on this
@@JobberGodot Ill be sure to do so
@@JobberGodot Go Beyond vs ACT 4?
@@starsilverinfinitygo beyond negs bruh, gravity and spin operate on logic, josuk8 😊doesn't care about that
@@withadreamofyou Just the bubbles negate stand abilities, not Josuke himself. He's not invincible, it was still uncontrollable and partially manipulated by Wonder of U at one point
Yo can you make a video about how Silver Chariot Requiem could be a possible contender to the strongest stand argument?
Btw I can't believe how underrated your content and channel is man, like you explain and logically give great evidence about how things would go down between stands like these.
Sure, also glad you like the video and channel!
Didn't GER directly State Diavolo was only witnessing a vision of what would have happened if his attack went through, diavolo further proving this stating he Never started his attack to begin with.
Revert to Zero Automatically triggers when an opponent has any intention to attack, putting them in a loop, Stopping them from attacking on the first place.
it deactivates the opponent ability to use their stand, attack. and supposedly even resets their willpower to fight to zero.
his ability isn't Revert it's Reset.
implying he could theoretically Reset someone's physical stats or abilities to Zero as well.
he could do that to the very concept of desth then he could do physical stat resets just the same.
he can also undo injuries of other people and supposedly himself if he somehow got injured. and he still has his life creation ability which negates and returns all damage to the one who inflicted it. so it could easily put a tree i front of tusk and make infinite rotation hit himself.
attacking johnny directly should negate the possibility of being hit by spin and with reset to zero tusk would be unsummoned.
GER stated that what Diavolo was seeing was indeed the truth of what was going to happen, but Diavolo would never get to reach that truth due to RTZ. RTZ by nature isn’t passive/automatic. Revert to zero or return to zero semantics do not matter to the conversation, same things. And the rest you talk about imo is headcanon respectfully
@@JobberGodot not really head canon. his ability literally says the power to reset any value to Zero.
which was shown to include. will power, events, and death.
so by all means his ability should be able to do all the other stuffI mentioned or else it wouldn't work.
you didn't mention how Giorno's live creation would play into the fight so my point still stands, that if tusk hits any lifeform that GER makes the infinite rotation will be returned to it.
Also The reset to zero loop literally started and ended i the moment where diavolo was about to begin using King Crimson's time erase. and not during his punch. so by definition the ability triggered the moment diavolo intended to begin his attack.
Also saying GEr just stands there and doesn't do the first move is wrong because Ger literally does the first move which would have killed Diavolo had he not predicted it.
he shoot a Ranged laser beam by flicking a pebble so strong it Knocked Down a building and turned the rubble into Very venomous scorpions.
so fast King Crimson who sees the future wasn't able to fully react.
how is Tusk supposed to defend against that if the speed difference and Power is so great?
the way you describe how RTZ beats time erase makes it look like you are following Dragon ball logic that simply having more power makes you inmune to other abilities.
when that's not the case.
"No matter the ability, it will never get past me, those who seek to harm me will never reach the truth that that's going to happen" seems like a pretty blatant explanation that regardles off speed or ability you posses. it won't even trigger i the first place therfore rendering it useless.
also the Idea that infinite spin could be used willy nilly without trying is wrong. to achieve infinite rotation requires a lot of skill and the perfect technique which requires time to set up and pull of.
it isn't something that is active 100% of yhe time that insta kills whover touches him.
Spin itself has it's own requirements to function, such as to visualize the golden ratio in living/natural things.
looking at Giorno's mechanical stand floating in the air with his fully clothes selve isn't going to be helpful.
I'm not saying your results are completely wrong on who wins but I'm saying you failed to consider many more factors that would come into this fight despite claiming to make them in character.
@@JobberGodotWhat's headcanon is ezpecting Johnny to start of using lesson 5 which he didn't do until he realized that nothing else worked on valentine, but he wouldn't have the luxury here due to GER just shooting a laser through his head and one shotting him before he reacts. 😊
@@JobberGodotnot a head canon it’s literally the truth you down played the hell out of GER in this video and this guy you responded to really broke it down so GER wins this fight
ik iam more late than your dad coming home but i just need to answer it. yes it would revert johnny will but tusk act 4 is able to think and do actions by himself. shown in part where he fought diego johnny wasnt able to move but tusk was able to move. so johnny's will will be reverted but not tusk's will he is multiversal>universal ger
Love your videos Jobber. I always thought that the new spin powers in JoJo's can surpass the power of Requiem, Johnny with his infinite spin and Josuke with his explosive spin. We've only got 5 chapters of JoJolands in but i know Jodio will develop some kind of OP spin power. This is easily another W video you've made. Can't wait for the new uploads.
I’m not convinced that time stop is superior to revert to zero
“Star Platinum can stop time for only a few seconds. The strongest stand ability ever” - stated after part 5
@@coostard5971jus because it’s said it’s the strongest stand ever means nothing
@@idc9ine so anything said about GER is also irrelevant?
@@coostard5971 ?
Now I want to read Pt. 7 again 😢
So, Tusk is capable of defeating GER. A TW Diego is capable of defeating Tusk with his big brain.
I personally belive DIO's TW is massive more capable then Diego's TW. Given I personally do believe the insane vampiric buff DIO has transfers over to his stand. So his The World is just highly amplified just how stands could be amped by spin or hamon.
Then you have Star Platinum, which just out proformed them all with raw physical capabilities. It's just like... Wow. Jotaro Kujo is horrifying.
Its jojos any stand can beat any stand. Look at the newest jojoland chapter not trying to spoil. But in general jotaro getting heavily injured by a rat whether you say it was because he wanted to teach josuke he did almost die. Diego had perfect prep time and knowledge of his weakness. But thats what makes jojos great and its power scaling great it’s flexibility that anyone even with the weaker stand in the right scenario can take out a stronger stand.
@@thefearturkey6944 you can't use that damn jotaro rat example, jotaro let himself get hit. Any time he wanted Jotaro could have stopped time and speedblitzed those rats.
@@juub5171The fact is, he was still put in a situation where RATT *could* have kill him.
The fact diego heated him BC he knew everything about tusk and valentine told him but if he never knew he would be clapped plus johnny never fighter ts stand so we can't say diego is stronger
Jotaro kujoh is terrifying yes
Local priest: haha speed go brrrd
Question regarding King Crimson though. Epitaph showing only one future directly implies that there is only one linear path of events, also taking into consideration that Part 5 was about using your own resolve to carve out your own path.
If we are to acknowledge that there is only one linear path in Part 5 as implied by the power of Epitaph, wouldn’t this mean that KC’s power is more than just erasing the memory of those in that 10 seconds, but more of removing himself from the grasps of Fate to a degree that he can alter the world as he likes in that Time Erase? To avoid the fate that he was dealt?
Although it can be interpreted in different ways this is how I specifically saw it, since there has only been two people who have not fallen prey to the outcome that Epitaph has foretold, that being Giorno and Diavolo.
Finally, someone explaining the aspect that RTZ couldn't possibly go against the Infinite Spin due to multiversal vs universal. I used to use the mathematical argument that the numerical 0 or RTZ wouldn't be able to affect conceptual infinite energy, be it from any source.
GER can stop Johnny. But GER can't stop Act 4.
But also explained mathematically zero is literally nothing an infinite concept with no point of start or end so I think it would have no effect in general until overpowering strength feats take into account
GER doesn't necessarily universal. Literally everywhere in wiki facts saying GER is atleast multiversal that this guy alone. An ultimate GER hater
Im still all ger, for me its the strongest stand hands down
I have Just found out about youre channel, but as a massive jojo fan and a massive ace attorney fan youre my fav jojotuber rn, keep up the great work homie
It cannot be understated just how utterly BROKEN Tusk Act 4 is with it literally transcending dimensions
One fight I’m now interested in is Tust Act 4 vs Made in Heaven
Tusk Act 4 gets decimated no question
Edit: in ta4 vs mih i mean
Made in Heaven would speed blitz Johnny and wouldn’t let him even first the infinite rotation.
@@TheVeganStudent_True. Tusk is more powerful, but that doesn't mean much with such a huge speed difference
Regardless of the winner, debates like these are always really interesting, same would apply to King Crimsom and Star Platinum or Cream vs The Hand
while I do agree that TA4 wins, there is the alternative route of GER winning simply by moving at the start of the fight, though there are many ways the battle could start and end, so overall i'd say its a stalemate(and I can already tell someone is gonna start a debate over this statement, so I will not respond to the childish argument).
Jobber on a roll with the GER videos.
Considering that Johnny died to another causality ability I would say this is closer to a draw since the infinite spin can Pierce through causality, and take out a normally untouchable opponent but that doesn’t protect the user so it would be a case of both ultimate abilities leading to a double knockout.
GER deniers when they realise Johnny wouldn’t even be able to hit Giorno with TA4 considering he never fired it since it was RETURNED TO ZERO. Imo it’s not that complicated at all GER just is completely invulnerable.
I love how RTZ can't stop infinite spin, but a god damn frog can
Great video!
Late but lit! We finally got your Giorno Vs Johnny vid!
i think ger reaction time is more like literally instant and he could reverse the time erasure because the moment it ended (as diavolo has to end it to actually attack) he reverted to zero and couldn't actually move in erased time which in my mind makes time stop better because if giorno gets one shot in the stopped time (and ger too without going berserk or some other post death shenanigans) then ger couldn't revert to zero. but i'm not sure if that's intended and that's mainly my head canon but i'm actually not sure if infinity can be reversed etc.
now ik ur a scaling youtuber and everything, but why tf does transcending dimensions matter against GER? the literal only relevant question in this whole debate is if RTZ reverts the infinite spin.
So theres a misunderstanding. Revert to zero doesnt need Gio to make a hit to nullify an attack. I haven't seen it stated that way anywhere, however the death loop is dependant on GER connecting with his fists (and the needing to hit with his fists thing for the death loop might not even be a real thing as the only place ive ever seen it stated was was not cannon)
Also could someone provide me with a hard source that specifically says return to zero is reaction speed dependant??? Im real confused by that one and ive never heard that one before. It seems to contradict the fact rtz is a passive ability that's supposed to be an ultimate defemsive stand ability thats very well conscious and aware.
Blud did NOT listen to me at 3:30 💀, yo, go watch my GER video, after that check out the videos description, and look at my pinned comment
@@JobberGodot fair enough mans. Though i do remember watching that GER vid right after it came out, but I'm gonna give it another go. I really wanna keep this dialogue going though as i remember having something to add to the GER vid but had to go to sleep for work. Its a long vid and tbh I'm a slow ass typer so might take a minute to reply again lmao.
Btw dont think im a hater, actually really like your vids
Infinity * 0 still =‘s 0.
Anything times 0 regardless of size will always = 0.
Tusk act 4 gets nullified by RTZ easily regardless of infinite spin.
But after that, for giorno needs to kill Johnny for a death loop to begin (Johnny dies, rtz reverts his death to 0, erasing the effect but keeping the cause; death happened but didn’t die- type shit)
Also the key difference between Johnny and Giorno’s abilities is that Giorno’s ability is passive and Johnny’s is active. Johnny has to shoot that first nail and start infinite spin while GER’s ability activates automatically (/passively) regardless of speed. So it activates when someone attempts to attack Giorno. Plain and simple.
Tusk act 4 attacks (active) , giorno RTZ’s (passive) both the infinite spin and Johnny shooting the nail.
Now where it gets tricky is giorno attacking johnny, which I don’t know whether the effects of giorno touching Johnny’s TA4 would be RTZ’ed.
Giorno can’t be beat by Johnny, but it’s still up for debate whether Johnny can be beat by giorno.
Who knows. It’s just one big circle-jerk debate in the internet😅
If return to Zero was passive it would continually revert everything around it to zero endlessly it needs to be an active ability to make sense
@@JustGoldy77 no? Anything that attempts to harm giorno = return to zero? Just because it’s passive doesn’t mean it’s hyper sensitive to everything around it.
If Tusk 4 is on the same level or above time stop, being able to move even during it, then i think tusk 4 is a given, im not a power scaler tho
Tusk Act 4 could only move for a small amount time
@@SubmissiveMemerality yea, but still, being able to move through time stop without having time stop is like, absoloutly wild
@@SubmissiveMemerality You can easily argue that Tusk has a similar reactive adaptation like star platinum, but instead of trying to use time stop, in a sense he's attempting to maybe outspeed time stop. He had a similar problem with D4C, he almost failed but he had the time to get through, given enough times he could do it
@@SubmissiveMemerality being able to move even an inch in stopped time technically gives you immeasurable speed as you're moving in 0 seconds of elapsed time.
Why does tusk having a larger area of affect mean that it can't be affected by GER though
Like, if someone has an ability that can eliminate every universe in existence, but another person has the ability to make specifically only their own universe invincible under any circumstances, then the second person would win because the ability is stronger conceptually even though it has a lesser area of effect of only a single universe
If you could prove Tusk's abilities were actually more powerful not just effective over a larger area, then you could make the argument that Tusk overpowers RTZ but the only argument you have for that is "Tusk beats timestop and timestop is 'stronger' than RTZ"
That's a pretty weak argument because 1. statements on the "strongest" stand are inconsistent and flip back and forth and 2. the idea of a "strongest" stand is disproven in the narrative as stand matchups are about how the stand is used and how it counters other stands (survivor being the "weakest" stand yet creating one of the most dangerous situations for Jolyne in part 6)
Timestop being the strongest ability could just mean that in Araki's opinion it's overall a better ability because it isn't only reactive
GER is defensive and Tusk Act 4 is Offensive
Never understand why this channel is so underrated.
I don't totally agree with you but it was still a really good video
Can you maybe do a video about Made in heaven vs Tusk act 4 or D4c?
Or a video about the strongest Stands/characters overall (top 10 or top 20 something like that)
that would be really cool
TYSM YOU LITERALLY EXPLAINED THE WHOLE THING FAX
Yooo, I am early. I have a question, in the fight against DIO right, Kakyoin used the 20 Meter Emerald Splash and on emerald hit Dio, carving a hole straight through his sholder, that should put the attack around town level AP right?
Yea
Wasn't tusk able to beat the shit out of Valentine before Love Train's barrier could close?
Golden experience has the ability to create life for all things appart from new pro-ger arguments
W video but the only contentions I have is time stop > rtz cause it isnt consistent at all and ts being a universal - uni+ ability is a very big stretch. also ta4's physcial capabilities are much better considering the fact it destroyed love train with its bare strength without using any worm holes or nail bullets
Good vid
Btw where is it stated star platinum is the fastest and physically strongest stand?
The panel you showed in that moment was just the invinicible stand ability statement
Check out my GER video, as well as my How Strong Is Jotaro Kujo video, it’s all there
@@JobberGodot btw wasn't za warudo able to stop infinite rotation in time stop or did he just not use it when firing?
No, TW was not able to stop the infinite rotation, it got worse for TW the more the stand stopped time with TA4 out
@@JobberGodot oh so your basically saying tusk act 4 would use infinite rotation and run up to ger, overpower rtz and hit ger killing them.
Fair enough lmao
I believe tusk, being a multidimentional traveler hops through revert to zero, taking you to another universe upon death, for its death (a reference to multiversal+ reincarnation, supported upon the death of Kira), on a multiversal level in addition to his multiversal (yet still singular)(being one entity) wall, (keep for a second) altering capability trumps by far GER's singular reality defiance and perception alteration (the opposite of diavolo's singular universe, self defying ability)
For me diavolo time erase don't erase only perception but really erase time itself since you can see the walls being erased
And when you said buccirati hit a stone pillar, it was the fate this action had to happen anyways because you can't change fate its like risotto's foot being cuted it has to happen we can even take the trish hand cut in erased time (elevator) diavolo wasn't able to do that action in erased time it was fate again. For me, king crimson ability really erase the time itself. But i always had a scenario in my head and i would like to see what you think about it. Imagine jotaro vs dio jotaro want to punch dio and diavolo erase time now diavolo can see star platinum movement and he see sp trying to hit dio but when time is erased people are unconscious so that is my real question will dio react to the punch or the time erased will make dio not able to react to jotaro punch. If you didn't understand i get anothet scenario if time is erased and i had in mind to shoot pucci (mih) will pucci dodge it?
Based.
prob no to both questions
"And when you said buccirati hit a stone pillar, it was the fate this action had to happen anyways because you can't change fate" King Crimsons ability is to alter fate, Buccerati was going to hit him and he altered fate making Buccerati hit the pillar instead
well one question though if king crimson actually erase time then why does rtz(causlaity manip) works isnt causality manipulation bound by time? i searched in google that causality(cause and effect) requires time so no time=no causality making causality manipulation innefective
@@Hazel564 Fate.
I think it’s good that TA4 is limited by its user. Since Johnny needs a horse in order to use it to its full potential, TA4 has a handicap. Now if Johnny somehow regains the usage of his legs, anyone that crosses him (except maybe Gappy with Go Beyond) is getting clapped faster than Dire got decimated by Dio
Bro did not read the part
This dude definitely didn't read part 7
You have King crimson's ability wrong erases the effects of time that is going to be quote-unquote skip, so he would erase the effect of him getting shot from narancias Aerosmith and leave the cause of it still there so basically if you shoot you will always shoot he will just erase the effects if what he wants or parts of action he doesn't want. He will erase a effect of an action and all actions and epitaph will allow him to sort and go through ten seconds of time see the future and apparently others if he wills it, he basically skips and erases bits if moments in time and as you said how we perceive them.
I have just released a video on KC if you’re interested in watching it, I go in more detail in it than here
Return to zero just isn't some mediocre ability that counter moves in the stand datebook "Gold Experience Requiem's ultimate ability is to revert all actions and willpower back to the state of "zero", completely nullifying them and preventing them from becoming "real". For simplicity’s sake, it’s comparable to performing Ctrl-Z (undo), completely denying any causality. This can be seen as a direct opposite to King Crimson. As instead of undoing the act and leaving the effect like King Crimson does, Gold Experience Requiem removes the effect from the cause" i don't agree with the idea that tusk act4 would be immune a character doesn't need to be the same power power to win, gilgamesh and any fate character for example.
1st youtuber i have seen describe king crimsons ability
Pretty nice video, but where did the low multiversal scaling come from for GER?
The whole “Being above existing stands” and people no limit fallacying it
@@JobberGodot So it's not a valid scale then?
@@riatrapgaming6415yes, it is not a valid scale
Wtf Is Tusk Act 4 Doing To GER In The Thumbnail
im gladju made dis bc im tired of ppl acting like GER is forever invincible
I strongly believe that ger would not just stand there and let him get hit. As soon as diavolo intended to hurt giorno, it was over. Ger had alr activated.
Yea I agree cuz GER is a passive ability, activates instantly when harm is trying to be done to Giorno
Good video. Not sure how I didn’t ask those already, but if TE is just a erasing perception, then why can’t he attack during TE?
Diavolo has intangibility, it’s that simple, guides even support that idea as well
@@JobberGodot I get that, I was just asking for maybe something else specifically. In my scale, the intangibility is a direct side product of his ability and your scale, it seems to be an extra drawback not saying that means your scale on my scale is the correct one, just observing.
@Super_Saiyan_Rainbow I didn’t understand a single you’ve just said, I don’t think i’m required to accommodate my scale to yours, we just have fundamentally different opinions on scales/tierings I guess?
@@JobberGodot well yes, obv we have agreed to disagree. I was just saying that in my scale the intangibility is a byproduct of time erasure while in your scale it is a additional ability stacked on. Like he could’ve been written to erasure perception without being intangible.
@@JobberGodot I was running out of time when I was writing that previous message from two hours ago, maybe I just rushed it a bit if it was confusing
Causality manipulation is not time manipulation. It’s very different. If you claim that GER isn’t causality manipulation then. Okay but if it is. It’s the ability to retcon. To make something having always been that way. Which means tusk just never gets fired
I completley agree you went thru with it tusk act 4 is too powerful
There are so many things wrong with this video I'm not even gonna bother arguing
GER could pull a diego, but that wouldn't stop johnny using act 4 again, dude has tops 20 chances to hit him. but yeah as long as johnny can fire off a shot the fight is basically over.
Johhny and Giorno seeing the entire universe collapse while their stands are fooling around:
I believe that tusk act 4 wins because it's part of the story that once tusk act 4 and the infinite rotation begins it cannot stop (seen with Valentine getting hit and it following his conscience and spirit through other dimensions). GER on the other hand would have to let an action happen for it to be able to revert it to zero otherwise how can you return something to it's beginning of it never had a beginning which by that point it would be too late as the golden rotation would already be activated. I also don't believe ger could stop Johny from doing something like riding a horse or getting a horse to kick him to activate tusk act 4 because those actions wouldn't affect him directly which I believe is a requirement to activate ger ( an action has to personally involve Giorno) otherwise Giorno wouldn't have let made in heaven activate as speeding up the flow of time would have affected Giorno on some level
I'm about to be eating good after this video
In short: GER has to wait for their opponent to do anything, while Tusk Act 4 just doesn’t care about what you do
GER: tries to use its ability
Tusk: Infinite spin go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Me personally, i do feel like you should Take statements over feats. As the statements are also official, in my opinion carry the same weight as feats. Araki is a person that likes dramatic effect, so he sometimes makes the stands appear less powerful or strong for more dramatic effect, such as Made In Heaven, the stand said to have infinite- Immesurable speed, in the anime it seems that he is only traveling somewhere around the speed of a car, or a plane. I feel ger is also affected by this, not only having meh feats, but also being an underexplored stand. This is because no one would want to keep watching a story of the MC destroying everyone, with no difficulty. I also think that the barrage was for dramatic effect. Star platinum does it. The world does it. You get my point. I do understand you making this video, the manga and anime have different versions of the infinite death. Being inconsistent. I do not yet think we have seen the limits of ger.
And we still haven't seen ta4 full power tho
What’s your thoughts on Uzi dropping pink tape with a possible Carti feature?
It’s certainly…interesting to say the least
RTZ vs Infinite Rotation is an entirely different debate than Gio vs Johnny; realistically, Giorno just snipes Johnny’s physical body seeing as how Tusk doesn’t have the ability to defend against gunshots (johnny doesn’t deflect a single gunshot in the entirety of SBR, he just tanks it. unfortunately, the scorpion pebble thingy isn’t exactly a gunshot). And even if the infinite rotation hits Giorno, Giorno is likely intelligent enough to know that you can just chop off the area you got hit to avoid the rotation (like what AU Diego did). Giorno could just regrow his body parts anyways.
Been arguing this too long. So glad to see someone make a video on it
Infinity trascends reality. The thing that GER controls ends much sooner than infinity
I don’t know if you covered this topic, but why people seem to think that Gappy has the strongest stand? I have seen many put him above Johnny and I just don’t understand it, Tusk is super broken (and Go Beyond isn’t... right? It’s just that it was the only way to defeat WoU, “nothing” more)
If anyone could answer it, I’d be very grateful
im a little bit late but gappy has the strongest stand because of one wou isnt just some normal villains in jojo he is stated to be the strongest villain by far stronger than d4c love train made in heaven basically all villains youve seen in jojo wou is stronger than them and gappy beated wou and go beyond bubble is broken as hell its ilogical it can attacj ger cause it isnt logical basically one tap ability its like tusk act 4 infinite spin on crack plunder is also fucking broken why? it can take any physical thing on your body just forexample he can take out ur heart then u die anything physical really for a short time btw he can take friction oxygen anything as long as its physical so it cant grab concept
tbh, both stand users are pretty intelligent , they won't fight directly , ger has its own consciousness, if ger get hit by tusk ,physical contact is made by both stands, so i assume even if ger gets caught in spin, it can revert itself to 0, if the effect of spin resist, ger can keep reverting anyway, if ger ends up killing tusk act 4 at the end, the stand ability will wear off ig. so as long as giorno finds a way to defeat jhonny, my opinion giorno will win . i agree tusk 4 is quite op, but we couldn't see even more than 20 mins of potential by ger , so it probably more powerful than assumption .
@JobberGodot PLEASE RESPOND
If attacks are going trough him without affecting him, wouldn't that mean that he does erase time, since if he just altered people's perceptions he would still get hit, but in many occasions the attacks just pass trough him, so even if he alters only his own time, ger being able to move in that time would get him a 4d feat, wouldn't it?
No
@@JobberGodot Elaborate
Makes me wonder now. How much stronger is Hermt Purple (Jojolion) and Soft + Wet Go Beyond are compared to Tusk A4?
S&W GB is the strongest stand in existence. No matter what you say, no matter what reason you come up with, no matter what powerscaling or explanation you give, the GB bubbles will land. They transcend logic. I would argue it is the closest thing (without breaking the fourth wall) an author can get to making a power that literally tells the characters "fuck you", since the author exists beyond the rules of the fiction.
The stand is so powerful I actually don't know how Araki can one-up himself like he has been doing since Part 3 in Part 9. Maybe a stand that LITERALLY summons Araki, but aside from that, the Go Beyond Bubbles destroy 99.9999% of combatants in fiction. Unless a combatant operated outside the realms of logic, which as far as we know is the highest level of existence, then... well yeah, let's just say nothing really stands a chance against them.
GER slams
His fists in rage that he can’t RTZ and beat Tusk Act 4
If you return to zero an infinite rotation nail, wouldn’t you just get a Go Beyond bubble?
But isn't GER more complicated than „revert to zero"? Wasn't it like, removes the effect from the cause, which is the complete opposite of King Chrimson. I think what would happen is that the effect of the infinite spin would be cancelled out, while the bullet still hits Giorno.
That's the tricky part. Infinity denies the laws of space-time and logic. GER can set back the cause, but the bullet would still be there spinning, because it's infinite. That's why Johnny is the by far the strongest Joestar.
jobber is on a ger slander campaign and im all the way here for it
GER solos because he's infinite, duh.
ok all im gonna say is, it’s seen that johny can be hit by his own attack ad long as it touches him, so im thinking GER takes what ever part of giarnos body thats gonna get hit and throw it at Johny and boom done
GER's potential is very high if araki uses GER more like what return to zero is capable of cause in non canon, dio in light novel was able to beat ger and novel kars was able to just straight up ignore the return to zero with nothing but speed and dont forget about dio over heaven
As someone who has fought off multiple giorno glazers after saying ta4 low diffs i applaud this man
I dont think scaling GER to have hax equal to SP is correct, i think by saying SP is the most invincible stand they mean in base form, otherwise they wouldn’t have said GER is the perfect stand.
Also the summary definitely doesn’t say GER needs to hit an enemy first for it to use RTZ, it’s saying those struck by the power of Revert To Zero will be stuck in an infinite deathloop if killed by it.
And saying that RTZ is reliant on GER reacting to an attack also feels wrong, the wording of the ability phrases it as unconditional, otherwise it would’ve had something that implies GER needs to see the attack, or it would specify when saying “the ability of Requiem is impossible to compare with the stand measuring rod”, that it means only once RTZ is activated. GER having None in staying power, to me at least, implies that it doesn’t have/need durability because it cannot be hit.
GER isn't the least bit reactive. The moment it appears, it shoot Diavolo with a life beam and transforms the debris into scorpions that then sting him. Once Giorno gets done monologuing, Diavolo immediately uses King Crimson and we see GER moving to attack him during skip skipped time. It only chooses to use Revert to Zero after King Crimson goes for an attack, but even then that attack doesn't connect. So I don't know where this argument that GER would just stand the like a statue waiting for Johnny to hit him is coming from.
Rewatch/Reread GER vs Diavolo again, GER & Giorno literally float for about 45 seconds before actually doing something lol, and just in case you haven’t, I highly recommend you watch GER video to see more of where that argument is coming from
@@JobberGodot I literally just told you what happened in that scene in both canons. Why are you telling me to reread/rewatch it? You're misconstruing what was happening narratively to make an argument for Giorno and GER having the IQ of a rock just so Tusk ACT 4 can get an easy win. Giorno in this scene is hovering above Diavolo, looking down on him while talking with the utmost confidence in his ability to defeat the Boss of Passione. Diavolo had asserted himself as the king above kings up till that point in time. Giorno is going out of his way to break him down via actions and words because he's fully aware that there is nothing Diavolo can do to prevent what's about to happen (even though he doesn't know what his stand is capable of). He's not standing there catatonically like a lobotomized chimpanzee. And again GER acted first during that entire interaction in both the manga and anime. That's irrefutable and suggesting otherwise is blatantly choosing to omit those parts to make your argument.
And I told you what ACTUALLY happened since you’re experiencing phychosis, Giorno/GER literally float doing NOTHING for 4 and a half pages/45 seconds in the anime, that’s exactly what happened. And after GER attacks, the attack is non fatal, didn’t obliterate Diavolo, then Giorno and GER walk towards Diavolo and LET Diavolo do whatever he wants except kill Giorno/GER. So yes, by your standards, GER/Giorno do have the IQ of a rock consistently in character from what’s visually presented against an opponent they want to kill or win against. Also please watch my GER video before replying to me if you haven’t to keep this conversation more progressive
@@JobberGodotDid you really just argue that a scene intentionally contrived to build hype for GER is proof that Giorno is stupid? Rip 🤡
@@JobberGodot If that's the argument your going to make, I don't want to watch the video. It's no doubt just as intentionally obtuse.
the funny thing is saying ger can affect anything outside of king crimson and diavolo is pretty much headcannon,with how the requiem arrow worked most likely ger only affects those that giorno knew, meaning anyone he didnt know at that point would be unaffected, the arrow doesnt exactly do as you want it to, look at chariot requiem we all know polnareff would have preferred something that could 1 tap diavolo and keep himself alive, but what he got was something that switched souls. requiem stands are strong no doubt, but they arent even slightly close to as strong as people think they are. they just apply no limits to ger because they misunderstood literally everything chariot requiem set up
Why have GER haters formed this magic narrative that the stand arrow gave him a hyper-specific niche ability as if Araki wrote "Only works against King Crimson" in the stand description lmao. His wish was to beat Diavolo, that doesn't mean the stand can *only* do that. He was given the power to defeat Diavolo, to assume that means the power can *only* beat Diavolo is a silly leap in logic.
There's no way this guy thinks tusk act 4 can resist causality manipulation 💀. Bro thinks time stop is the strongest ability in JoJo. This guy is lost 💀🙏
I agree, Even if Giorno were able to revert Johnny's attacks, Tusk Act 4's Infinite Rotation ability would still be a major threat. Infinite Rotation is a technique that creates an infinite amount of rotational energy. This energy is so powerful that it can damage anything, even Giorno's Gold Experience Requiem.
Overall, Johnny Joestar with Tusk Act 4 has a number of advantages over Giorno Giovanna with Gold Experience Requiem. Johnny's Stand has a physical form, it can attack from behind or by surprise, and its Infinite Rotation ability is incredibly powerful.
I would agree that infinite rotation beat return to zero but i don't think it's a question of power scaling, the infinity just doesn't have a beginnning or an end so it wouldn't work, hoever, even tho requiem can not undo it, he can nulifie johnny's will as the stand manipulate souls, so the bullets might not even touch giorno in the 1st place hever this id debatable, what is not tho is that even tho act 4 can likely be used for punching and stuff without a horse, he is in need to hoever to generate the energy needed to shot a nail that will spin forever, as we see at the end of the diego fight when he was hopeless until steeven steel picked him up on his own horse to create the energy required, so it is unlikely that giorno will ever get hit by infinite rotation because seing a dude with a stand running towards you with a horse and ready to shoot at you might be enought for requiem's ability to activate, and even if not he can just shoot the horse with a life beam...
it's a wierd fight.
You also have to think if reverting an infinite move to nothing is possible
Can you do how strong are the piller men
Maybe
random ass question but what is your favourite jojo and part?
Jotaro, and Part 7
@@JobberGodoti got jolyne and parts 6, basically the opposite
u forgot if ger reverses infinite spin, even though its infinite, rtz reverses ALL attacks unless its something that can counter it like DIO over heavens reality overwrite, but we still dont know what would happen if this scenario took place
No it doesn't work like ger never revert inf it was never mentioned
2:16 what's the name of the song in the background?
I do not know 😅
So where did you get it from?
@manseurrayane1679 I didn’t edit the video, my editor Badclips did, his Twitter is linked in the description if you want to ask him what music he used
@@JobberGodot thanks bro
Now this one was actually not very surprising. I’m still a bit skeptical about your interpretation of RTZ, but even then, I don’t think GER can return the INFINITE spin back to zero.
yeah. the definition of infinite is it keeps going, so even if you return it to zero it will just start again
@@ashergad9278no, rtz can revert fate, even infinite spin wont kill him
@@bigmaxmer1556 I don’t think that applies to an ability that can traverse dimensions.
@@ashergad9278 he talked dogshit, ger is multiversal, or didnt u see the infinite deaths of diavolo
@@bigmaxmer1556 I know but so is act 4, or did you not see infinite spin affecting valentine across different dimensions, effectively going beyond time and space
King Crimson has the ability to actually physically remove itself from reality for at least 1 second while skipping time, which means that Time Skip creates a sort of pocket dimension. This is seen only one time at the end of the Doppio vs Risotto fight and never again. I have no idea if this has any bearing on the outcome of this fight, but I thought it was worth reminding people of.
I would say inconclusive because we didn't even see the full power of GER, only RtZ we've seen
How do you know that return to zero can only be activated once it’s attacked it’s target?