Triangle Borea BR02 - Crossover UPGRADE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2020
- The time has finally come to upgrade my Borea BR02's. This crossover upgrade, while not the easiest I have done, was well worth the effort.
Original Borea BR02 Review: • Triangle Borea BR02 - ...
Check out my other sparker videos here: • Speakers
Per viewer request, here are a few links to sites where you can get some of the components I used in this video. I have no affiliation with any of these companies.
Sonic Craft - www.soniccraft.com
McMaster - www.mcmaster.com
Parts Express - www.parts-express.com/
Also per viewer request, the parts I used are:
Jantzen Cross-Cap capacitor (woofer)
Mundorf MCap EVO capacitor (tweeter)
18 AWG air core inductors (woofer and tweeter)
Mills resistors (woofer and tweeter) - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
GR research is gonna be mad at you for giving up this basic physics away for free. 😅😅😅. Good job man. I wish people can learn the physics behind this. It is gonna blow their mind.
This was an excellent review and you've made the speakers sound like $1000 ones. Awesome job!
This was pretty clearly shown, I have another brand of monitor and with this I am motivated myself to try, nice job!
Thank you!
Hi Casey!
First time viewer. Really enjoyed your Borea crossover upgrade video. Have watched many G-R vids and was impressed with you pulling back the curtain on component values so one can purchase them on their own vs. a kit.
Thanks for taking the time to do that. I'll be watching some of your other non-speaker videos.
Stay safe.
Tom
@Tom Koutz - Thank you!!
@@Casey_Schmidt HI Mr. Casey. You maked big mistake. Never use one capacitor in the future, because one thin capacitor wire kills and stopped signal. For example - if you need 3.3 uf use 6 capacitors (0.55 uf *6), if need 10-12 uf use 8 caps and connected in one parallel. If need 33 - 60 uf use 18 caps and etc. And resistors likewise use no one, all time use 4-8 resistors. One of the Best high quality caps for affordable price - JB JPX Supreme (red color). Best affordable resistors metal oxide Visaton (green color) and Dayton Audio resistors only green color! And the last. Inductor coils need use only film! No wire inductor coils. Do not forget about it...
You are at the entrance to the speaker building rabbit hole - turn back before it's too late.
I said to myself "I could get a really good set of speakers with the money I spent on test and measuring equipment"
I bought some Genelec studio monitors with a Genelec sub.
Fantastic though they are, it hasn't cured my speaker building addiction, instead they became more of a challenge....
Thanks for videos, espescially showing values of components and how to built it...many youtubers are just talking but not giving useable data.
Nice work! I would probably do a sim to check if any component values would need adjustment due to the higher resistance of the air coil on the low pass network. Assuming a 5x higher resistance of the air coil and 8 Ohm drivers, the tweeter would probably need a -1dB attenuation.
Great job Casey, I have the Borea 03 and am looking at doing similar upgrade but would definitely want to do a more detailed acoustic measurement before and after.
Interesting & informative
Most often it really pays of to upgrade filter components, very seldom it does not. I once upgraded the crossover on a set of the newer JBL L100s. That didn´t sound good because I think
the low cost Bennic caps matched up fine with the alu tweeter.
Great content, hope it will make it to 500k views over time :)
I did my upgrade with way cheaper speakers, very sceptical while doing so, and I was blown away what the 10€ tweeter can play after you change 0,10€ electrolytic cap for 5€ film cap.
@peterpixo - Thank you! I agree, when I did my first upgrade, which was on my Klipsch R-15M's, I did not expect to hear much if any difference. It was just for a bit of fun and tinkering. But when I heard them after the upgrade for the first time, I was really blown away by the difference.
I would equate the experience to this. A passerby would never hear a difference between the stock and upgraded speaker. Just as someone driving a certain car for the first time would never notice if it had better tires, brakes, or suspension. But if you're familiar with a speaker and you know its characteristics, it's easy to tell the difference; just like if you put upgraded components on your daily driver car.
Damn, you confirmed my doubt about this myth. It isn't even a myth, it is truth haha. Ok, I'm getting those entry level film Jantzens for my cheapo, just-acquired Pioneer SP-C21 center. 💪🏽
@@Casey_Schmidt one question, is your simple mod for the R-15M only replacing the caps or together with the inductor?
@@HarithAhmadDaud I replaced the capacitors, inductors, and resistors.
@@Casey_Schmidt will replacing the caps only improve the sound quality in your opinion?
I wonder if anyone upgraqded br03, I got a pair I would like to upgrade it as well since I like the sound of the speakers
Halo ! Is me again i have some headache problem that i cannot figure the right component for my speaker crossover , i have electrolytic no polarised with 8mfd 100v n 15mfd 100v
so my question is can replace same as your this video mundorf mkp caps value or i send my photo speaker sample to you see first , tq for your kind info
I wonder if Standard Z Cap worth the price over Cross Cap?
Thanks
Would you mind sharing what diameter wire you used on your 2 replacement inductors??
And if you have it - the diameter wire of the original tweeter inductor?
Much thanks
Thanks, good careful approach to everything. But how does it change the sensitivity?
@Ke Bo - With these upgraded components, the overall sensitivity is changed but not enough to really matter in any practical sense. The parts that will change the sensitivity the most are the inductors. The larger air core inductors have a higher series resistance than the original iron core inductors. The difference is so small that it really isn't worth getting concerned about unless you care about the speaker being 100% perfect.
Thanks for the walkthrough. Do you remember the dcr value for the two inductors?
@Movementry - I do not recall that values off the top of my head. But if you follow the sites in the description and find the same components, the resistance will be listed. I can say that the woofer inductors will be slightly higher than the originals and the tweeter will be slightly lower. While it does technically make a difference, I would be doubtful as to whether or not the would be noticeable.
@@Casey_Schmidt Thanks for the reply. Received the speakers last night. Love the smoothness to them, but finding some mid range bloat and the highs kind of lost behind that, but so much better listening than the Hsu MkII I was using (and they aren't broken in yet). Sounds like upgrading the crossover will address this some.
So you are replacing the components of the crossover , presumably using the same values. Why ?
Nice video, nice upgrades. I think a demo video comparing the sound or even the upgraded sound demo only is long overdue for this project. 😉
I don’t have adequate audio recording gear to test for that and I don’t think the difference would survive the video edit/rendering process not TH-cam compression and downsampling. That’s why I haven’t done any sound comparisons for my speakers videos. Hope that all makes sense.
@@Casey_Schmidt I understand that. But honestly, even if the data would be squashed by YT, sound demo does a good job of giving a little bit of idea of how said speakers sound. Of course, listeners or viewers have to take it with a grain of salt. I think even iphone mic does an okay job. Plus, it's always fun to listen to demos! I mean, we're talking about speakers right. If you feel like investing, I guess those affordable binaural earphones are quite good (see Joe n Tell). A Zoom H1n isn't goinng to break the bank also. In fact, I'm dead set on using a common Olympus recorder for my upcoming Pioneer C21 center speaker capacitor upgrades. Just waiting for them caps to arrive. Come on man, let's make it happen.
@@HarithAhmadDaud With the winter season approaching, my videos will turn more towards indoor related topics again so I will definitely consider creating some sound demos. If you have any recommendations for good audio quality copyright-free music, send it my way. Thanks, Harith!
Hi Casey_Schmidt. Good day to you. Harith👆🏻 give great suggestion. Sound demo will make your video more attract the yt viewer, WITHOUT SOUND DEMO your videos can be so boring and tired up for viewer to wait the whole through till end...of any video(if the video is about sound).
Viewer will prefer to look for other reviewers with sound demo instead !!. This is my honest opinion, not that im try to 'demolish' any other 'audio reviewer', this just to make the viewer to get more better/clearer knowledge on a matter if they had more knowledge source through many 'audio reviewer'.
The sound demo also need to do in a right way(no need for super expensive monitor equipment as harith mention 👆🏻). The right way i mean is...to monitor the sound more than five meter away from the speaker.
Thank anyway.
@mohdrozakhiismail7273 Thank you. My videos focus on the technical aspects of many subjects. There are plenty of other people creating great sound comparison videos.
Where did you get your parts if you don't mind me asking.Thanks.
How is this upgrade treating you in 2022? Got these speakers for myself, might go with an upgrade later on. Thanks.
They’re still my favorite for music!
Hi there this is a great video thanks. I have some BR03 speakers and I think they are too bright so I was thinking of changing the cross over. Would you have any tips on how to reduce treble? Thanks Glenn
The most simple way is to add a low value resistor in series with the tweeter.
@@Casey_Schmidt thanks Casey that’s great I will definitely try that while doing the cross over upgrade. 👍
Thanks for this video. I've just bought a pair of BR02 used on eBay and will consider the crossover upgrade. Meanwhile, I read a comment to the review of the BR02 by SmallRoomAudio that it would also be possible to change the driver caps (....."the cap in tweeter for a jantzen superior z cap and the one on the woofer with a jantzen cross cap".). Although I don't know right now what is involved in changing the caps on drivers, I'm curious whether you have experimented with such an upgrade? Thanks
You would follow what he did, making sure the values are correct on each capacitor, but choosing the different brand/model of capacitor. Should be pretty much the same that he did, just with whatever cap upgrade you wanted to make.
@@02honeydew Thanks. I now appreciate that "caps" is short for capacitors - and that it is therefore a very similar upgrade.
@@willpea1445 no problem. For a straight forward upgrade it should be nice, but I have no idea how to figure out changing the actual sound characteristics of a speaker. But nicer parts should definitely give you an upgrade in sound quality
Do you think the same general principles apply for the Triangle BR03's? Would I just upgrade the components, matching the original values of that design? There have been so love/hate reviews of those speakers, it would be great to have your take on them.
You’re correct. I’ve done this same treatment to several speakers with good results.
Sorry I mean Jentzen inductors, not Mundorf.
Halo ! fren can I ask question , I have a satellite spkrs dun have crossover, just have two caps n do u have any crossover diagram for my satellite spkrs ? Tq
@kevin chew - Unfortunately, without taking it apart and seeing it for myself, there isn't anything I can do.
I just bought a pair of BR02 and I am planning to upgrade the crossover as well. Capacitors, resistors and internal wiring are must. As for the inductors, I haven't decided yet. What is your opinion on the inductors? There are low cost ones but I am not sure if they are any better than originals. Goods one like Mundorf are quite expensive.
Just avoid the iron core ones. After that they’re all too similar to matter.
Are you planning a crossover upgrade for focal chora 826? These soeakers are awesome sounding and cant imagine to where we can improve it by this modifications.
Not at this time.
very good!!
Oh damn, it's on! When you have time, could you link to parts in the description if they're not hard to find? I wonder if you could convince Sean at ZeroFidelity to borrow these now.
@soulshinobi - Yes, I can add some links. I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions on speakers with upgraded components and enclosures. I'd also like to hear a direct A-B comparison between a modified and unmodified speaker.
Can you this kind of video for the ELAC Debut?
I cannot because I do not own a ELAC Debut.
Just ordered these speakers heard good things about him I'm interested in upgrading the crossover what exactly is it going to do for me if I use the same parts that you used in this video how does the speaker improve in what way?
@I shoot Nikon - The purpose of the upgrade is to more depth and clarity form the speakers. Some people can hear a difference and other can't. Think about it like fine wine. Some people can test minor differences while others can't. You don't have to use the exact same parts that I used. Any style of components with the same values will work. But if you don't do at least air core inductors and decent poly capacitors, it's kinda pointless. I recommend living with the speakers for a few months before upgrading to see if the upgrade is worth it to you. You'll love them either way I'm sure! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for your reply so did you change the crossover or did you just upgrade with the same parts but just better quality? And did you change any of the inside did you add any more like foam inside to deaden the the sound inside the box inside the cabinet or did you just leave it alone?
@@califmike2003 I chose to replace everything with higher quality parts of the stock values. I liked the way they sounded so I didn't feel the need to change anything. Not only that, but I do not have the equipment necessary to re-engineer the crossover. The rest of the speaker was left stock. the bracing inside is significant enough that I did not feel the need to add any vibration-dampening foam.
5w MOX resistors actually sonically better (tested at HIFICRITIC) than 10w. 5w MOX Mundorf almost on par with Mundorf Mresist Supreme.
Thank you for making this video, very useful. Would you mind putting up a parts list of the parts you used in this video? Your choices look good to me, I might get the same.
@DecoRyder - Thank you for the suggestion! I have added the crossover parts to the description. The sky isn't even the limit when it come to audio gear but I've found that the parts I listed/used represent pretty good value for the money. Feel free to buy either cheaper or more expensive components based on you budget for your project, good luck and thanks for watching!
@@Casey_Schmidt Thx Casey! I'm gettin' the BR02's tomorrow, and I'll upgrade them sometime shortly after xmas - I'll let you know how before/after compares.
@@decoryder - Keep me posted!
WOULD YOU CONSIDER MAKING THIS CROSSOVER FOR CONSUMERS INTERESTED IN PURCHASING ? PLEASE ADVISE
Nope.
Not sure how much it matters, but when I upgraded my crossovers I used stainless steel screws to attach the board. My fear was the metal screws might interfere with the signal path. 👍🏻
I’d doubt there’s much capacitive coupling between the screws and the circuit but at the very least you’ll never have to worry about corrosion!
@@Casey_Schmidt ya your probably rite. I actually replaced every screw in the speaker with stainless lol! The woofer,mid,and tweeter screws as well as the binding post screws. But I also am very happy with the clarity and detail that was brought out with the upgrade. 🔈👍🏻
@@JR-ho5qm I'm glad you got the same results I did!
The big mistake people sometimes make is putting steel mounting screws in the middle of an air core inductor. It is generally a good idea to keep ferrous materials away from the crossover, though.
Can somebody Please Tear down the Mundorf Silver cap & Show us all whether Mundorf Silver cap is really using Pure Silver Foil inside. Is it real or Fake ? Video Please..
Hey Casey. If you've ever listened to it, any idea how your upgraded crossover version of the Borea BR02 compared with the Triangle Comete Ez?
@Shan-Jun Lu - Unfortunately, I haven’t gotten the chance to listen to the Comete Ez’s. In my opinion at least, it would be better to spend the money for the better enclosure and drivers that the Comete’s have versus having the Borea’s with an upgraded/better crossover. But of course, that’s just an estimate since I haven’t listened to the Comete’s yet.
How much would you charge to make me a pair of the bro3 crossovers? Thanks
I’m not in the business to sell crossovers at this time.
@@Casey_Schmidt please....
The soldering on that jantzen cap and inductor uses Far too much solder hardly any wud b just as secure
Can you Cut open the Mundorf Silver Gold Cap vs Solen Silver Cap to view the inside can ? Is it real Pure Silver Foil or basically just a Fake Foil ? Video have ! ( Surely u will have Billion of Billion of Viewer in your TH-cam)
Please do more of these!...I actually have sum really cool triangle Titus speakers from 2002 there called the Titus “202” for obvious reasons lol if you’d like me to send them to you i can. Let me know
@Tom Ford - Thank you for the kind comment and generous offer! I looked up the 202's and they do look like really nice speakers. I found a web article (see the link below) that shows that the "crossover network" only consists of a single capacitor in series with the tweeter to cut it off below 6K Hz (not an optimal design). Given that, I would say they would definitely benefit from an upgraded crossover network. Since I don't have the tools to measure and engineer a new crossover network, I would highly recommend giving Danny over at GR Research a call. He makes a business out of upgrading and re-engineering speakers and does really great work. Again, thanks for watching, I should have more speaker videos coming soon!
www.tnt-audio.com/casse/titus202_e.html
@@Casey_Schmidt thanks man but yea I’ve been in my speakers lol that review was definitely off. There is a cap a resistor and an air core inductor for the tweeter circuit. However the woofer does play full range which probably isn’t the best choice but man do they sound great. I’ve called Danny quite a few times and yea your right I think I will go ahead and ship them to him. I just like how in depth your videos are
Not chip bad finish china quality now i understand why peopke sold this model or b3 !!!😄😄
Jantzen aren't that great, pretty much all poly caps sound the same... metalized film capacitor are better, their sonic qualities are great. PIO / paper in oil would be my first choice . I would build my own inductors with Torodial transformer Copper, really good quality there.... Resistors, i would go with T Tulead... They even have heatsinks to keep them Cool..... Remember that resistors / resistance is always affected by heat... So value change once it gets heated..... And that's it... OFC copper for wires and you get yourself a high quality top of the line Crossover.
They have a variety of sounds some warm... Some bright
it is VERY easy to repair a cone or surround if it gets punctured or torn you DO NOT a need to buy a hole new driver!!!!
@KC LEACH - You have peaked my interest. How would one go about doing such a thing?
@@Casey_Schmidt all you need to do is , depending on the size of hole or rip get super glue and a piece of fabric.. i have a 10inch sub in my car that the surround of the cone was completely gone and i took a bicycle inner tube cut out enough to cover the size of the surround super glued it on and that sub pounds harder than when it had the original surround on it!!! ive been using that same sub for over a year now no issues! be creative!!
The rubber surround of drivers can be easily replaced, and most of modern drivers are of PVC anyway, replacing it with REAL rubber might actually improved the sound, its available on shelves. 😁
Hi, great vid:) just wondering if you would be willing to do a set for me? Let me know I'll definitely make it worth your while.
Thank you. Unfortunately I don’t do any work for hire right now. When you factor in someone else’s labor cost, the small improvement becomes less worth it compared to using that money on buying a slightly better speaker from the start.
@@Casey_Schmidt I understand! But don't let Mr. Richey hear ya lol..
Халтура ! А плату с стеклотекстолита вытравить было слабо ? Резистор вместо 5 Вт поставил 0.5 Вт. Не выдержит он . С годами пластиковые хомуты трескаются и все это разлетится внутри акустики. Колхоз короче.
Waste of money, and waste of time spent on this upgrade. It makes sense when you have all the puzzle parts already in place - sound source, amp, room preparation. Only then it makes sense chasing missing details by upgrading crossovers and "magic" wires.
Considering price of Triangle Borea price, I doubt about all the things I mentioned in above.
Therefore this kind of upgrades is total nonsense.
@Martynas J - You do you!
or do u have email so that i send to you coz cannot in this youtube msg