Havent played stranger of paradise but the entire lore of both ff1 and dissidia is basically about garland becoming chaos due to time travel and stuff Actually dissidia is a prequel to ff1 the game ends with the hero of light (the only one who didnt have a world of his own) standing before a castle holding a crystal and ff1 starts with literally the same scene
Tehom is the only boss made me use a lot of shards (Hard) against him and when its say is watching the look on his left eye while this OST hit creeps me.
as someone who played this game in hard, this boss was a brutal endurance test. The challenge here is to maintain the battle resources and mp surviving that insane HP bar.
I love that this boss really forces you to engage with the elemental weakness system and really you can dictate the flow of this fight if you use it properly. Furthermore, what even is this thing? And why does it piss off after it looks like you didn’t even dent it?
It's the void before creation, as stated in Genesis 1. Tehom literally means "the abyss". Of course it just goes about after you fight it since, well, you can't kill the void.
Even after Eon's second part brings in the Nahobino leitmotif and picks up after Lucifer changes phases? I could understand Eon part 1, but Eon part 2 is great!
When I saw that Mastema was returning after completing every ending in Strange Journey Redux, my initial thoughts was that, at the very least, both big bads were returning. And they kind of did, with Tiamat reminding me more of Mem Aleph than her Redux/Devil Summoner counterpart, and Tehom representing Shekinah. Or you could say half of her is. All in all, even with both entities being part of Chaos, I still had a real good sense of nostalgia throughout facing them!
What even in the holy mother of fuck is this thing? I know it's not from Da'at/Expanse because we're currently in it, and you don't even kill it. It just fuses together and goes back to whatever fucked up dimension it came from. It's certainly not a demon either since it's not even from the same reality the game takes place in. We know it's not an avatar of YHVH either since Tehom is described the void that existed before God created stuff. Is it part of the Mandala System? Or is it some eldritch abomination that doesn't obey that system either? Is it even a demon at this point? Because so far, the only entities barring the Qadistu in this game that have a unique race are Lucifer and Satan, both being transcendent beings.
I imagine it's called "Tehom" but - like Lilith - it has a Babylonian origin. It's Abzu, I believe. Yoko likely used her power to awaken Abzu and try to win using him as a new self that she commands, much like how she did with Tiamat. But, the game explains nothing.
For this, we have to look for answers in spin-offs. Put simply, I imagine it is an entity similar in nature, but certainly not role, to Canopus- It is the void itself. Space, nothing, a vacuum, everything OUTSIDE/under/not within reality or the Expanse. Canopus is the universe's crash debugger- no real will or mind of it's own, it simply exists to correct errors. I imagine this... NOTHING's place of origin, if not inherent nature itself, would be the universe's recycle bin, metaphorically. Where things go when removed from reality, or if they've existed, but never in reality. It's possibly the same nameless expanse beyond Amala that Noah, the Nameless, came from. TLDR: It's the void. An embodiment of the state of the universe pre-big bang. Before the Horned God of Law said "Let there be Law", there was this.
The name is pretty clear about what it is. It's the deepest void. The void that exists outside anything else, even the Mandala. It can't be the Mandala because you face her in the ending which you're actually enforcing the Mandala will. Just like in Hades, in which there's the Primordial Chaos, you have the void - incarnated through Yoko in Tehom. Not everything in a game needs to be explained in minute detail. Some things can be left to the player's interpretation. It's just that, nowadays, people think that, if something doesn't have an extensive backstory, it's a plothole. FF fails for the reason of trying to explain everything through Ultimanias and retconning a lot of stuff.
I've seen people making a lot of mistaken assumptions about Tehom (and the Mandala) because, apparently, if there isn't a 10-minute long cutscene explaining everything, then it's a plothole of sorts. I'll try to explain it as clear as I can: -What is Tehom? It's the void that existed before the creation, as the word "Tehom" means, literally "the abyss". That's confirmed by its Race being Void. -Where it came from? Yoko summoned the very concept of the void and merged with it in order to became Tehom as a demon. Since she advocates returning the world to the primordial state before the Creation, it does make sense she can tamper with that power and it didn't come out of nowhere, as some think. -What about the Mandala? It's currently unclear if it's meant to be the Great Will. Some characters, like Tao, draw a connection with it, but others, like Satan, don't, declaring he was summoned by "transcendence itself" (which could be the Axiom, confirming that, at the very least, the Axiom is different from TGW). Also running counter to that is that YHVH was always an avatar of TGW, yet the Mandala system apparently predates even His dominance, considering YHVH Himself decided to ditch the whole "guiding goddess" system and even sealed Yoko away. Also some people seem to think the Mandala is just a concept. Wrong, because it's heavily implied it has a level of sentience. It straight-up abandons universes that don't bend to the system (as stated by Tao and Goko), and it is confirmed that the True Neutral ending in CoC is, indeed, permanent, but only for that specific universe. Think of it as what Canopus represents in Devil Survivor 2 and you'll understand better what the Mandala truly is.
@@constantinb4592 canon of creation (and CoV for canon of vengeance), the two stories you can select from at the beginning of smt V: vengeance; CoC is the original story while CoV is the new one
Hmm I thought this said universe that smt v takes place is under purview of the axiom since it amala drums and assuming the amala network attached to it. I’m only assuming but feel there is some deep connection since satan is involved in this game as an arbiter through as you surmised being the axiom. Bleh so much of this stuff is blatantly explained I’m confused😤.
me too, i just think the challenge could be similar to smt 3 or 4, in a scale of 0/10 this game was 4-5. it can be more fun to play with some conditions, like not using drain, repel grimoire/gospel and mahatsui critical
@@LFCBinzy nah, this game was amazing, best megaten game only outmatched by Persona 2 (due to P2's story) close second tho and overall the best jrpg ive ever played (best SMT hands down)
@@sociallyawkard5675 i definitely agree with you on that. This game is flippin awesome!! Played the vanilla on switch quite a bit, but I haven't put Vengeance down since it came out. Definitely one of my absolute favourite games that've come out in awhile
Probably one of my favourite boss fights in the series I feel like the Chaos Vengeance route got shafted hardcore in terms of boss fights. Tiamat into Tehom is so much better than Mastema randomly pulling Tiamat out of his arse (is it ever explained how he even does that?) and then fighting him by himself. Also no Tao boss fight for some reason (she literally says "you'll have to go through me" and then does nothing lmao). It's a shame because I actually prefer the ChaoVen ending.
In hindsight it makes a bit of sense because, as a servant of the Mandala, Mastema is of a higher rank than even the Goddess of Creation, so he can wrestle control of Tiamat from Yoko without breaking a sweat. Problem is, there was no reason for him to do such, especially because Tiamat runs counter to the Mandala's and, by extension, his objectives (and even begs the question why he didn't do it sooner before she nuked Shinjuku). As for Tao, I think Atlus was reluctant to make her a boss battle so you could kill her. They could've simply made it a duo boss with Tao and Goko, or even put Goko alone as a boss battle before Mastema. But, since SMTV as a whole is pretty Law-biased, it does make sense that the Law route feels more complete, be in Creation or in Vengeance.
Yeah I was kind of hoping for you fighting Mastema then fighting some kind of Superpowered fusion of Tao and Godo. it stands out more and honestly it feels like it needed that one more week to cook.
Mastema, on top of outranking demons and gods in authority, runs on pure seethium in that route, that’s why. Seriously, I’ve seen characters that manage to override things out of pure rage before so I can’t complain.
@@TorterraJayeon Again, the problem is that there's little to no foreshadowing, and it outright runs counter what was established in-game. I mean, if he could take control of Tiamat why did he want to prevent her summon at all? The most likely explanation is that Atlus, for whatever reason, was very adamant against making a Tao boss battle and get her killed by the protagonist. Also it made Goko a bigger nothing in the story than he already was. For all the good CoV did, you could still remove Goko entirely from the game and literally nothing would change.
i don't think a Tao boss battle would make sense in CoV frankly. you can say what you will about whether this was a good choice in CoC, but she doesn't fight you when you destroy the Throne there - so why would Vengeance Tao, who retained more of her independent will and personality as a direct consequence of befriending and traveling with the Nahobino and Yoko for most of the game, try to kill the last two friends she has left? If the Nahobino rejects her, that's it: there's no other candidates for the Throne left alive. she talks a big game before Mastema shows up, but the framing makes it pretty clear that's a weightless threat: she has no chance, and she's not the kind of character who could bring herself to do that. if the Great Will/Axiom/Mandala/whatever won't hijack lobotomy Tao in CoC to prevent you from destroying the system, I don't see how or why it'd pull that in CoV. Yoko is a different case, because she was far more radicalised both as a human and as a goddess under Lilith's influence than Tao ever was, and she's already committed to seeing her path through before she learns her friends are still alive. the real Tao-related tragedy in CoV Chaos is that she refuses to come with you and Yoko into the primordial chaos. she won't bring herself to fight you, but she still dies as a consequence of the Nahobino's decision. (None of this is to say that Tehom isn't a cooler and more climactic route boss than Mastema, though. The game explains he can exert control over demons in Shinjuku, and he looks *very* happy during Tiamat's revival, presumably because he intended to use her to keep undesirable options off the Throne from the start - these foreshadow the matter, but don't make the sequence any less abrupt. I don't think he can compete with Tehom in design kino either, but I don't think Boss Tao is the solution.)
I like how this is basically just Yoko's theme + scratchy synth sounds since really-- why would the embodiment of nothing, the void itself, have much of a theme? Tehom's presence in this track is mostly to remix and add onto the thematic focus here, Yoko.
I could go on for so long about my experiences with this boss, but I feel like the most interesting thing in my mind was my emotions when going into this fight. Tiamat sucked a lot of enjoyment out of my playthrough, and I was relieved I won not because of the lore or whatever, but because I hated the boss design. I got a headache from the fight midway through my first attempt that persisted even after my second, winning attempt. This boss, while lasting longer had been a worthy fight. I still didn't really like it, but I found working around the gimmick interesting and somehow won on my first attempt. Never been more grateful for a law ending.
![Shin Megami Tensei 5 Vengeance - Boss Satan [HARD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Lx5jOUKwPrs/mqdefault.jpg)
tehom be like
👌 👁 👁 👌
👄
OMFG this is good LOL
Tehom is watching...
Jack Garland when someone mentions chaos:
CHAOS!?
I HATE CHAOS
Chaos...
Havent played stranger of paradise but the entire lore of both ff1 and dissidia is basically about garland becoming chaos due to time travel and stuff
Actually dissidia is a prequel to ff1 the game ends with the hero of light (the only one who didnt have a world of his own) standing before a castle holding a crystal and ff1 starts with literally the same scene
This song feels so ethereal, it fits with the amazing duality of Tahom's design
I freaking love Yoko's leitmotif in this one
This song is awesome in a weirdly terrifying way. It's almost like I can hear the distorted maniacal laughter of a woman.
This song hurts a bit once you realize that's Yoko's leitmotif
Yeah I noticed that Immediately, Love this fight reminds me of the smt 4 final bosses
what motif?
@themliemnach listen to Yoko's theme and you'll hear it
The whole vibe is so ethereal and otherworldly... I know it will never win anything in TGA, but i hope the OST gets some recognition at least.
Beats to return everything to the abyss to
Tehom is the only boss made me use a lot of shards (Hard) against him
and when its say is watching the look on his left eye while this OST hit creeps me.
as someone who played this game in hard, this boss was a brutal endurance test. The challenge here is to maintain the battle resources and mp surviving that insane HP bar.
@@GameCAD916 yeah tehom has 100,000 HP but I like it, it means you actually have time to engage with the gimmick
This is right up there with Ghirahim’s final form in Skyward Sword HD as one of my favorite penultimate bosses.
I N C E P T I O N O F C H A O S
Ded😂😂😂😂
I love that this boss really forces you to engage with the elemental weakness system and really you can dictate the flow of this fight if you use it properly.
Furthermore, what even is this thing? And why does it piss off after it looks like you didn’t even dent it?
It's the void before creation, as stated in Genesis 1. Tehom literally means "the abyss". Of course it just goes about after you fight it since, well, you can't kill the void.
@@brtruev1710True, you can’t kill the void but the fact that Nahobino can even fight it and “win” speaks volumes to how powerful he is.
this reminds me of Xenogears final boss a little
It is giving me some One Who Bears Fangs At God flashbacks, actually
Yooo Xenogears mentioned ^^
Banger holyshit
Ngl, this kind of theme fits better than EON as a final boss for this game, sad they didnt got in this route at first
Even after Eon's second part brings in the Nahobino leitmotif and picks up after Lucifer changes phases? I could understand Eon part 1, but Eon part 2 is great!
@@furcornstuu Yes, it gives the "Finale" and "impossible" feeling here, and it is way less opressive and pesimist, the EON is way more optimist
2:37🔥🔥🔥🔥
Why is Tehom kinda similar to Shekinah?
When I saw that Mastema was returning after completing every ending in Strange Journey Redux, my initial thoughts was that, at the very least, both big bads were returning. And they kind of did, with Tiamat reminding me more of Mem Aleph than her Redux/Devil Summoner counterpart, and Tehom representing Shekinah. Or you could say half of her is.
All in all, even with both entities being part of Chaos, I still had a real good sense of nostalgia throughout facing them!
What even in the holy mother of fuck is this thing? I know it's not from Da'at/Expanse because we're currently in it, and you don't even kill it. It just fuses together and goes back to whatever fucked up dimension it came from. It's certainly not a demon either since it's not even from the same reality the game takes place in. We know it's not an avatar of YHVH either since Tehom is described the void that existed before God created stuff. Is it part of the Mandala System? Or is it some eldritch abomination that doesn't obey that system either? Is it even a demon at this point? Because so far, the only entities barring the Qadistu in this game that have a unique race are Lucifer and Satan, both being transcendent beings.
I imagine it's called "Tehom" but - like Lilith - it has a Babylonian origin. It's Abzu, I believe. Yoko likely used her power to awaken Abzu and try to win using him as a new self that she commands, much like how she did with Tiamat.
But, the game explains nothing.
For this, we have to look for answers in spin-offs.
Put simply, I imagine it is an entity similar in nature, but certainly not role, to Canopus-
It is the void itself. Space, nothing, a vacuum, everything OUTSIDE/under/not within reality or the Expanse.
Canopus is the universe's crash debugger- no real will or mind of it's own, it simply exists to correct errors.
I imagine this... NOTHING's place of origin, if not inherent nature itself, would be the universe's recycle bin, metaphorically. Where things go when removed from reality, or if they've existed, but never in reality. It's possibly the same nameless expanse beyond Amala that Noah, the Nameless, came from.
TLDR: It's the void. An embodiment of the state of the universe pre-big bang. Before the Horned God of Law said "Let there be Law", there was this.
I meant to say "let there be light" but "let there be Law" works just as well here.
The name is pretty clear about what it is. It's the deepest void. The void that exists outside anything else, even the Mandala. It can't be the Mandala because you face her in the ending which you're actually enforcing the Mandala will. Just like in Hades, in which there's the Primordial Chaos, you have the void - incarnated through Yoko in Tehom.
Not everything in a game needs to be explained in minute detail. Some things can be left to the player's interpretation. It's just that, nowadays, people think that, if something doesn't have an extensive backstory, it's a plothole. FF fails for the reason of trying to explain everything through Ultimanias and retconning a lot of stuff.
@@brtruev1710 While you're right- it's fun to make cracktheories anyway.
I call this the drain your mp bar theme
The soundtrack in this game is just... amazing. It's so unique you can't dislike it.
Welcome back Merkabah
0:17 i like this, its calming if you dont pay attention to the anguish sound on the background
I've seen people making a lot of mistaken assumptions about Tehom (and the Mandala) because, apparently, if there isn't a 10-minute long cutscene explaining everything, then it's a plothole of sorts. I'll try to explain it as clear as I can:
-What is Tehom?
It's the void that existed before the creation, as the word "Tehom" means, literally "the abyss". That's confirmed by its Race being Void.
-Where it came from?
Yoko summoned the very concept of the void and merged with it in order to became Tehom as a demon. Since she advocates returning the world to the primordial state before the Creation, it does make sense she can tamper with that power and it didn't come out of nowhere, as some think.
-What about the Mandala?
It's currently unclear if it's meant to be the Great Will. Some characters, like Tao, draw a connection with it, but others, like Satan, don't, declaring he was summoned by "transcendence itself" (which could be the Axiom, confirming that, at the very least, the Axiom is different from TGW). Also running counter to that is that YHVH was always an avatar of TGW, yet the Mandala system apparently predates even His dominance, considering YHVH Himself decided to ditch the whole "guiding goddess" system and even sealed Yoko away.
Also some people seem to think the Mandala is just a concept. Wrong, because it's heavily implied it has a level of sentience. It straight-up abandons universes that don't bend to the system (as stated by Tao and Goko), and it is confirmed that the True Neutral ending in CoC is, indeed, permanent, but only for that specific universe. Think of it as what Canopus represents in Devil Survivor 2 and you'll understand better what the Mandala truly is.
But the axiom bruh
That was a very good explanation. Thanks.😁
What does CoC stand for ?
@@constantinb4592 canon of creation (and CoV for canon of vengeance), the two stories you can select from at the beginning of smt V: vengeance; CoC is the original story while CoV is the new one
Hmm I thought this said universe that smt v takes place is under purview of the axiom since it amala drums and assuming the amala network attached to it. I’m only assuming but feel there is some deep connection since satan is involved in this game as an arbiter through as you surmised being the axiom. Bleh so much of this stuff is blatantly explained I’m confused😤.
the theme of vehicular manslaughter
Best jrpg ive ever played
me too, i just think the challenge could be similar to smt 3 or 4, in a scale of 0/10 this game was 4-5. it can be more fun to play with some conditions, like not using drain, repel grimoire/gospel and mahatsui critical
bit of a stretch there mate
@@LFCBinzy nah, this game was amazing, best megaten game only outmatched by Persona 2 (due to P2's story) close second tho and overall the best jrpg ive ever played (best SMT hands down)
@@sociallyawkard5675 i definitely agree with you on that. This game is flippin awesome!! Played the vanilla on switch quite a bit, but I haven't put Vengeance down since it came out. Definitely one of my absolute favourite games that've come out in awhile
not the best story but definitely the best gameplay of any turn based rpg
at the end ost is perfect
Yeah! 3:47* is crazy good Was banging my head hard during that part ngl!
Probably one of my favourite boss fights in the series
I feel like the Chaos Vengeance route got shafted hardcore in terms of boss fights. Tiamat into Tehom is so much better than Mastema randomly pulling Tiamat out of his arse (is it ever explained how he even does that?) and then fighting him by himself. Also no Tao boss fight for some reason (she literally says "you'll have to go through me" and then does nothing lmao). It's a shame because I actually prefer the ChaoVen ending.
In hindsight it makes a bit of sense because, as a servant of the Mandala, Mastema is of a higher rank than even the Goddess of Creation, so he can wrestle control of Tiamat from Yoko without breaking a sweat. Problem is, there was no reason for him to do such, especially because Tiamat runs counter to the Mandala's and, by extension, his objectives (and even begs the question why he didn't do it sooner before she nuked Shinjuku).
As for Tao, I think Atlus was reluctant to make her a boss battle so you could kill her. They could've simply made it a duo boss with Tao and Goko, or even put Goko alone as a boss battle before Mastema. But, since SMTV as a whole is pretty Law-biased, it does make sense that the Law route feels more complete, be in Creation or in Vengeance.
Yeah I was kind of hoping for you fighting Mastema then fighting some kind of Superpowered fusion of Tao and Godo. it stands out more and honestly it feels like it needed that one more week to cook.
Mastema, on top of outranking demons and gods in authority, runs on pure seethium in that route, that’s why. Seriously, I’ve seen characters that manage to override things out of pure rage before so I can’t complain.
@@TorterraJayeon Again, the problem is that there's little to no foreshadowing, and it outright runs counter what was established in-game. I mean, if he could take control of Tiamat why did he want to prevent her summon at all? The most likely explanation is that Atlus, for whatever reason, was very adamant against making a Tao boss battle and get her killed by the protagonist. Also it made Goko a bigger nothing in the story than he already was. For all the good CoV did, you could still remove Goko entirely from the game and literally nothing would change.
i don't think a Tao boss battle would make sense in CoV frankly. you can say what you will about whether this was a good choice in CoC, but she doesn't fight you when you destroy the Throne there - so why would Vengeance Tao, who retained more of her independent will and personality as a direct consequence of befriending and traveling with the Nahobino and Yoko for most of the game, try to kill the last two friends she has left? If the Nahobino rejects her, that's it: there's no other candidates for the Throne left alive. she talks a big game before Mastema shows up, but the framing makes it pretty clear that's a weightless threat: she has no chance, and she's not the kind of character who could bring herself to do that. if the Great Will/Axiom/Mandala/whatever won't hijack lobotomy Tao in CoC to prevent you from destroying the system, I don't see how or why it'd pull that in CoV. Yoko is a different case, because she was far more radicalised both as a human and as a goddess under Lilith's influence than Tao ever was, and she's already committed to seeing her path through before she learns her friends are still alive.
the real Tao-related tragedy in CoV Chaos is that she refuses to come with you and Yoko into the primordial chaos. she won't bring herself to fight you, but she still dies as a consequence of the Nahobino's decision.
(None of this is to say that Tehom isn't a cooler and more climactic route boss than Mastema, though. The game explains he can exert control over demons in Shinjuku, and he looks *very* happy during Tiamat's revival, presumably because he intended to use her to keep undesirable options off the Throne from the start - these foreshadow the matter, but don't make the sequence any less abrupt. I don't think he can compete with Tehom in design kino either, but I don't think Boss Tao is the solution.)
What a brilliant final boss this was. The moment I realised that her actions reflected my own, I couldn't stop grinning.
what genre is this?
I like how this is basically just Yoko's theme + scratchy synth sounds since really-- why would the embodiment of nothing, the void itself, have much of a theme? Tehom's presence in this track is mostly to remix and add onto the thematic focus here, Yoko.
👌
Kozuka is so goated man, fr.
Chaos demigod Chickn Nuggit theme
I could go on for so long about my experiences with this boss, but I feel like the most interesting thing in my mind was my emotions when going into this fight.
Tiamat sucked a lot of enjoyment out of my playthrough, and I was relieved I won not because of the lore or whatever, but because I hated the boss design. I got a headache from the fight midway through my first attempt that persisted even after my second, winning attempt.
This boss, while lasting longer had been a worthy fight. I still didn't really like it, but I found working around the gimmick interesting and somehow won on my first attempt.
Never been more grateful for a law ending.
Amazing boss fight