My pleasure. Independence is a very important value for me in this hobby. I need to always be able to share with honesty even when it's upset some suppliers in the past (and present)
Good to be able to watch your reviews again Lachlan! Hope everyone at home is doing well. My first IEM was the KZ ZS10 Pro, DQ6, ED9, ATR, EDX Pro and the last I bought was the Tin HiFi T2. Prior to IEM, I was mostly using Bluetooth earbuds. I was impressed with the KZZS10 Pro, also like the DQ6 but the rest were just impulse buy because it’s cheap. Then, so,who’s my ears just don’t work with IEMs, I find the, too bright and can’t stay in my ears regardless of trying and purchasing different buds. Hence, headphones became my favorite. If the lot, the T2 was the best. I used to pair the, with the FiiO BTR5. While at my desk, the Tin T2 works fabulously well with the iFi Zen DAC V2, a DAC amp I still considered my Best Buy.
Nice to hear from you, Billy. Quite a lot of people have the same troubles as you with IEMs. I sometimes wonder if it's partly to do with manufacturers tuning most of them to have some extra treble energy compared to a flat response.
In my opiunion, KZ is the brand most people would try out before buying more expensive stuff. I bought a KZ, after watching TH-cam videos, a few years back and thought they sounded good but got tired of listening to them after a few minutes. There was just something wrong with them. Because of this introduction to IEMs, I now own 8 IEMs, with some still on order, even though I only have two ears. I don’t understand the graphs but my ears can tell what sounds good or not.
Great video! Your take on KZ controversy is insightful. Could you please review FiiO FH5S and compare it with FH5S pro? I think the only difference they did was the cables on those. FH5S has received a lot of negative response from most of the leading reviewers and there are hardly any reviews for Pros. Would love to hear you speak about them. Thanks.
I really enjoyed this. I dipped my toe into the iem world with KZ ZS pro, and tried out the CCA KZ Zax, they sound great to me, cheap and a way in to test the water as it where. I will move on and try other brands after researching and hearing reviews, and buy better equipment to enjoy my music, but for now, for me, these are fine. Thanks for the common sense and reasurrance. I feel I haven't wasted my time of money in buying these iems.
I was very skeptic about IEM's maybe because I disliked BA drivers or lack of comfort. Recently we have planar IEM wars 😅 and some good dynamic options so my curiosity has won and I joined to party. I Have bought based only on HBB opinion IEM called Tangzu Wu Zetian and I'm not disappointed by the sound :). That tiny planar do wonders so I'm not even gonna complain about build quality lol 👍
Just like headphones, but maybe more so, IEMs can be crappy or amazing. Glad you're dipping your toes in the IEM pond so you can hear their pros and cons for yourself.
It's interesting what you are saying, I wonder if there might also be massive variations between the units of the same name. I have the ZEX Pro (CRN) and the CRA and they are quite a bit different so much that, recently I gave a friend of mine (who is not into audio gear) a listen on the CRN while advising him to upgrade from his seriously basic earbuds (he's not prepared to pay much). He enjoyed the sound and then when I gave him the CRA he didn't like it at all even when I told that he could buy it at half the price of the CRN, he said he'd rather spend more. And I must say I myself enjoy it even after listening to IEMs like the LetShouer S12 or 7Hz Timeless which I also own, it doesn't sound like a CCA C12 would sound for example. I've also found that it is very EQ friendly too. Maybe some of these units are connected and others aren't.
That's interesting to hear, Tai Dee. Do you also find that the two sound very different? Getting a good fit and seal is super important so I'm wondering if that is why they sounded so different for your friend. Of course, product variance is also very possible given what's happened
Thank you for the revisit! I jumped on this amp when it was made available. Loved the form factor ( small ) and the idea of a tube, sort of, sound. I use this for iems--- don't laugh, but I find my Ear Studio ES1oo mk2 as the dac. This little device is awesome for control of the input power as well as the way it sounds. This means, yes I am going Bluetooth to connect, but it is still awesome. I have a lot of control with the Ear Studio app and the gain and volume of the Piety, so I can tune for many different phones needing different input power demands. It is budget and loads of listening pleasure.
I love my ES100, it's a fantastic little device and I use it daily. I used to feed it into an Xduoo hybrid tube amp before got rid of it. The only reason why I'm considering another dac/amp is because I don't like the way my HD560S sounds. However I don't know if that's because I'm not using the more powerful balanced connection or the 560 is so resolving that it needs a different/better DAC. Right now they are collecting dust because they instantly bother me and crash symbols sound like trash.
I’m glad the conclusion you came to matched up with what makes sense. If it sounds correct it’s because it is, they never bothered to tune using the others drivers. Which makes sense because these were tuned based on sound and if the other drivers weren’t connected the influencers cresting these had no way to know. They just knew how it sounded. Regrading Crinacles iem he disassociated his name from it and came out with a scratching video of them so I think that one is more than conjecture. Also if they’re all about the same price the cca cra is around $15 from linsoul definitely the best value.
I would definitely choose the CRA too. It's a shame they felt the need to mess with "fake drivers" or that their QC is actually that poor because they're clearly capable of producing some great IEMs.
Thanks for your video. I had recently just got in to this world of IEMs and my first ones were the KZ ZS10 Pro. After I had made my purchase I found out about what was going on and started to doubt my choice but your video solidified it for me finally. I am happy with them and perhaps in the future if I decide to I may purchase another brand alltogether to get a different sound if I want. I did see that KZ had "renewed" the 10 pros with the KZ ZS 10 Pro X and they were the same price as the other ones. As I had a return window opportunity with Amazon I decided to "upgrade" and trade them in even though I knew I wasn't technically getting an upgrade but thought it would be nice to have their latest ones. To me no difference in sound and I'm still happy with them either way.
Of course I only found this video *after* buying 7 KZ and 2 CCA IEMs, most in rapid succession. (I'm an impulsive shopper and the fact that I have to wait for them to get all the way from China to Belgium certainly doesn't help.) I did do my due diligence (try saying that quickly ten times in a row) on the most recent purchases (KZ PR1 Pro, KZ ATE, KZ ZNA and the CCA CRA) so I'm fairly certain that those'll sound differently enough when they get there, but your video certainly explains why my noob ears couldn't distinguish between my KZ ZSN Pro and KZ ZS10 Pro several years ago. I just figured my hearing wasn't sensitive enough.
Nice review on the kz/ cca iems...i got into iems in.march of 2022...whizzer bs1 was my first, now i wanted another iem..saw akros with his kz debackle video, and guess i got into iems at the right time after a tws bender...i ave 7 iems now, one pair is the dual driver rx6z..i ave the cca / cra/ tinhifi 3 plus, etc...i might be new to iems, but the first thing i noticed wen i listened to my rev rx6, what that you coukd hear, one driver plays the mids treble/ and you can audibly hear wen the second driver picks up the bass...luv my cca/ craz, but , there had to be wen hbb/ crin/ and audible difference, in the iems in question vs a single driver iem, just by the sound difference of how an iem plays...anyway...thanx for ur video..ya made good points.. Peace
@@PassionforSound guess ya misunderstood...The dual drivers in the rev rx6 work like they are supposed too...I was texting thoze 2 guys/ hbb/ crin shoulda noticed , wen there demos , were not working right
Good review and thanks for the good and honest opinion. Think that KZ has become a go to budget IEM brand wich brings recognition and some bad mouths. Its a shame but it is what it is in the current society. Small tip, talking about colours and a macro shot of the IEM's with rgb lightning doesn't make things more visible
Interesting video. I have a couple sets of KZ iems - the ZS 10 Pro and the ZAX 16, the latter which is supposedly and updated version of the former. They both sound relatively the same but the ZAX 16 (7BA/1DD per side) is a touch less aggressive, which is a good thing. However, I recently purchased the crinacle-tuned CRN ZEX Pro which sounds pretty good but it seemed to be missing something sound-wise. A few days later, the right IEM stopped working so I returned them. That may have nothing to do with this redundant drivers issue but I couldn't help but notice that both sides had an unusual amount of wiring inside, like a clump of it was just placed inside with no direction or connection to anything. Again, that may not have meant anything but I kept thinking about this controversy and whether the unusual sound was because of it. Anyway, I'm enjoying my ZAX 16's for now but, with me, I'll grow tired of them and start listening to something else for awhile. Rinse and repeat.
I have known the KZ brand for several years already but only owned one KZ (ZEX) and one CCA (NRA). People on a budget when gaga over the KZ releases and some reviewers/influencers overhyped their stuff as the "best sounding", "only one you need" or something that can beat 2 to even 5 times their price. Never was impressed with the aesthetics, build, and subpar (at least for me) accessories like cables and stock tips (their Starlines are decent though). As far as sound, to me, the variance among models are not that far from each other. Maybe a slight boost in treble here or bass there. I saw where people were going but, at the end of the day, never really appreciated their products. as I never found a reason to. I know loyal fans of the brand and I respect them for that. Just not for me. Great content as always Lachlan in terms of objectivity and subjectivity!
Hi, my name is Jeff. Myself, Delta fyre and Akros were the first who found the KZ issue. If you have any questions about my discoveries feel free to ask me anything. I can tell you anything you need to know.
@@PassionforSound I'm sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I didn't apologize for anything because I only shared my data and personal opinion of what I was hearing/wasn't hearing. I try to let the data speak for itself and clarity my personal opinion whenever possible, but I try to make no claims unless I am 100% certain of them. Even then I still try to take defective units and unit variance into account and make sure people are aware. I think you might be referring to Delta fyre who made a public apology as he was the one who started the #exposeKZ nomenclature, he was also publishing graphs making claims of fake drivers and that certain drivers were defective, with little understanding of how tuning works, when in reality the vast majority of the drivers were actually working, (I've never encountered a fake KZ driver in the many I have taken apart.) But some of the drivers were just working to a lesser extent while the DD was doing the majority of the heavy lifting hence the similar tunings. I've also found at least 3 different KZ DD materials that were not published in their marketing materials. I.e carbon black, titanium coated, PET 6um and 3um. In my findings the only iems that contained blatantly false marketing info were the DQ6 and DQ6S as their two 6mm DD were not electrically connected in the case of the DQ6 (sample size of 2) and we're wired in reversed phase to one another in the DQ6S (sample size of 2) while both the 6mm DD tube passage (DQ6 and DQ6S) were blocked by glue, so even if they were electrically connected in the case of DQ6 or wired in correct phase in the case of DQ6S they wouldn't have made sound. The ZEX PRO/CRN M-Stats were most definitely real and working whereas the BA was only adding about 5/10% of the sound profile and there were no obstructions found. (Sample size of 3) Unlike Delta fyre's graphs just removing drivers and then graphing, (which in my opinion is an incorrect approach as the signal voltage would still find a path between the remaining drivers and the subtly increased ohm load at a specific freq would give the illusion of little difference between graphs, also I tried to explain to him that various phase relationships between drivers can actually cancel each-other out at certain frequencies causing some to even go up when removing drivers and that timbre also needs to be taken into account) In my testing I would remove everything else in the signal chain while keeping the same Impedance load and impedance curve, recreating exactly what those individual drivers would play during normal operation. In short summary, everything was blown way out of proportion because of a lack of understanding and explanation and a desire to stir up trouble for a company that admittedly made a few mistakes, but ones much less minor than people attribute toward them. This has pretty much been my stance since the thing happened and in my opinion the only real offender is the DQ6/DQ6S. If you would like any more elaboration I could go on for a while. Lol
Thanks so much for explaining and for the great write-up! You've answered my question about the apology which another viewer raised and then also provided lots of great information to clarify things. Thank you!
The Shures are great IEMs, but they've got a distinct tuning to them. You might find something like these to bring a nice, different flavour. I don't know the Drumeo in ears so can't comment on those.
Is kz still good? Are single driver's affected? Because I use KZ EDA a 3 pair earphones for heavy bass, balance and resolution. From what I know they are all single dynamic driver. And of course they are all very different from each other. I messaged them in their own store in Lazada and they said that the driver issue is all normal now. I'm not sure on how much of that is true tho. I hope they are all good now.
I don't know what the truth is about the drivers, but they make a nice sounding IEM (although many of them sound the same). I wouldn't bother buying multiple KZ IEMs, but I wouldn't advise against the brand either
I prefer a V-shaped signature with plenty of bass (but not piercing highs and muddy bass). Would you have a recommendation for a cheaper IEM that would fit my needs? I'm currently using Edifier Neobuds Pro which I think has a Knowles BA driver matched with a dynamic driver
KZ ZS10 PRO X is soooo addictive and great! I use it at least 5 hours a day ever since I got them over 10 days ago. l listen to 7hz Zero only for comparison but not for fun.
@@me3mmar yes they does. I listen to murre expensive IEM usually though. Tinhifi p1max or simgot e500. Cheap IEM sound cheap, no matter how great they are for the price. This is the truth.
What would be the logical step up from KZ CRN? T3+, or does one need bide their time, save and stretch up to an OH10 or S12? (Verum One MK2 sound quality/signature fan)
I got a zex pro (mic) for 21$ new and cca cra for literally 7$, both NOT on sale. No, I'm not kidding, but most of you who live somewhere far from china would likely never have that price, but for the price that I got them, they are absolute bargain. btw for the price of a mini dsp ear, you can get a clone iec 6018-4 and a clone grass ra402, then calibrate it to a real one, that way your measurements will be way easier to read and compare, because nearly no one use mini dsp and they use standard measurements rig for actually database measurement(where most measurements can be found and compare to each other), and the mini dsp ear acoustic impedance are just way too wrong even after compensation
So I'm guessing this is why my KZ ZX10 Pro has no bass? I bought mine in April 2022, around the time this controversy was taking place. This entire time I thought that was how they were supposed to sound. After gaining more experience I decided to do some searching and you conveniently had already made a video addressing it. I'm really hoping Amazon will help me with the warranty, even if I only get a partial refund. However I won't be buying KZ IEMs again. I don't want to enable untrustworthy companies that don't put the effort into developing their own products.
It depends more on the model than the brand. You'd need to work out how you want the IEM to sound for your bass playing and then identify an IEM that meets your sonic needs. Depending on your budget, the Kiwi Ears Singolo could be a really nice bass player's IEM I think.
I tend to be more impressed with great single driver implementations much more than the iems that market a maximum number of drivers. Sets like the 7hz and ie600 are fantastic implementation of single planar and dynamic driver configuration. Not comparing either of these models to KZ just the point of not chasing driver count.
The Symphonium Helios 4BA looks tempting but I'd need to sell something to justify getting another tuned set. (Like my Oracles with basically the same FR).
I agree, Ace. There are some great multi-drivers around, but few can match the coherency of a great single-driver. With so many IEMs targeting the Harman curve, finding something different can be a challenge
@@PassionforSound having the Solaris SE, Legend X, Mest Mk2, Andromeda Gold, TA Oracle.... kinda covered. Should just focus on saving for the VC or Atrium come ZMF November (dream of green stabilized wood)
Hasn't the controversy been "resolved" ? As the people who accused KZ of the fake drivers made an apology, but the damage had been done. The extra drivers they said were almost inaudible were for embellishment or tuning, and is not the traditional use of multiple drivers that let them each take a section of the frequency response. (Basically a DD driver producing the entire range with other BA or EST drivers "helping out")
I wasn't aware of that step in the process. What I do know is that there's not enough difference between these models to justify different purchases, but each one individually sounds very good
In the apology in facebook the original poster mentioned the BA & EST is supposed to help adding timbre/characteristics to the sound and that is why it is not showing in the frequency response graph. However I find it kinda suspicious because KZ themselves did not address this issue in their official apology nor they ever explained about the function of adding "timbre" when this issue went viral. Mind you that this offical apology from KZ came before the facebook poster apology. Shouldn't it make sense to clear things up with your customers and tell them about the adding timbre feature of the BA & EST drivers? After all KZ is the designer of these triple driver IEMs, how could they not know about the main purpose of them BA & EST drivers? It's like they didn't know about this feature and came out with "adding timbre" as a good reason after they contacted, discussed and made an agreement with the original facebook poster to make this reason up in the facebook apology. KZ and their triple driver seems fishy and I don't trust them. Triple driver at such a price is too good too be true afterall and I am very skeptical about things that are too good to be true.
I don't know how a driver is meant to add anything to the sound without altering the frequency response. Unless it's what I suggested in this video that the drivers are altering the internal resonance of the cavities and therefore changing the character of the sound without actually producing any sound of their own. It's pretty questionable marketing IMO even if the IEMs do sound great. Makes me wonder if they paid the original poster or make the apology too.
The failure rate, the insignificant distinctions without a difference, the clout chasing with collaborations, the poorly handled & opaque vanity driver controversy... yeah steer clear. In this segment you get what you pay for. Moondrop and Thieaudio are at least still reputable while achieving a target house sound married to a target FR based on Harmon. The draw in this segment of the market, especially with the high rate of "new units", is the target customer usually has a wild collection of IEM's under 500 USD (really under 200USD) and many mid fi and entry on/over ears driven by SMSL/Topping units. (It's like a fist full of ChiFi M&M's... sure they're different colors but they all taste the same and are relatively cheap). This is to say, the most vocal proponents are those who have jumped in "the deep" end of the hobby in terms of their purchasing habits (upgrade/sidegrade-itis, 99% blind buyers, reliant on internet reviews and youtube personalities for information) but really they're in a plastic pool in the backyard up to their ankles. While the hobby can be prohibitively expensive(and cost many times alot of peoples rent to truly arrive at "Hi-Fi"), it's ultimately damaging and bad for consumers for companies to target the entry segment with misleading marketing to tap into this consumerism.
Yeah the decision to attach their products to popular TH-cam celebrities os cynically smart. because it makes it so fans don't want to criticize the product. Because it reflects on someone they have a parasocial relationship with. It's bad for the hobby and for review credibility. good for the companies and biggest reviewers.
Unfortunately, all our ears are a little different so what is right for me won't be right for everyone. It can take a little while to work out which reviewers hear things the same as you. What I would suggest before giving up though is to try some different tips on them as sometimes a slightly deeper or shallower insertion can make a big difference.
@@PassionforSound previously I used metallic single driver earphones and loved their sound. Zsn pro is mostly plastic build and I can say that there is a difference between metallic and plastic earphone sounds.
They're very different tunings and also the soundstage presentation is different too. Sundara is a bit more laidback and also produces a better sense of soundstage size and depth while the XS is very left/right
Funny thing is that each audiophile reviver its saying totally opposite things about some Iem's when there is only one or two reviews inn net, when big guys like HBB, Crinacle, Gizaudio etc do video about, then rest revives starts looks almost identical. I starting to thinking that there is no universal audiophile sound understanding and classification. Its only very bad audio, ok audio and good audio. Problem is that in blind test many audiophiles choose cheap IEM's over expensive ones, what means the most important criterium is personal taste to sound and someone else opinion we can trade only as a starter nothing else! I bought already Iems that been lifted on popular channels but for my ears they sounds like music coming from underground.
That's very true and I think there are two possible reasons. 1) we all hear a little differently due to our ear anatomy th-cam.com/video/Y41oQTfDWiI/w-d-xo.html 2) there are some perceptions in the reviewer community of what sounds good and it's often not about sounding like live music. My personal reference point is always how the same track would sound if you were in the room with the musicians. I seem to be a little different in that regard.
KZ did bait and switch in the PR2 changing the IEM by removing some component which changed the tonality of it. I would never buy anything from a company that was caught bait and switching
I stopped watching as soon as you mentioned you received the iems from KZ. Their QA failure means reviewers iems will always be perfect while the rest of us will rely on pot luck to get what we pay for. I, for one, will never buy KZ again. Just my two cents worth.
If you stopped watching then you won't know that the QC and questions about KZ's honesty are exactly what I was discussing. It's probably worth giving some of us a chance before jumping to conclusions.
Yes. Not when they're pumped out so fast. Good product design should take at least a bit of time for testing variants, gathering feedback, etc. It's not like software development where it can be released early and then fixed with updates. (Not to devalue the immense amount of time and effort that goes into software development)
That doesn't mean you're deaf 🙂. The HBB isn't bad, just not as good as the other I reviewed here. I also don't rate the Aria as highly as some people do.
@@PassionforSound I like massive Bass. 2000's car sub life in my for active years. Also the KZ fit is great. Moondrop is so smooth it doesn't grip as well.
dont think you understand what they did, the only way to know if they are being honest now is to open them up so that is the ONLY way to test whether they have fixed the problem because there def was a problem
I definitely understand what they did - I've read all the threads and chatted to KZ directly. My point is that the average consumer can't open up the devices and test them so if they still choose to buy, I wanted to discuss what they're getting and the answer is that they're getting a bunch of models that essentially sound the same so they should not worry about which one has more drivers or a certain type of driver because they might not even be working and make no significant difference anyway.
Kz may well have some QC issues or done some shiffy stuff with their $20 iem's but Chord and their empty $5000 snake oil M Scaler box is on a whole new level...
You need to look into that one more before jumping to those conclusions, Steve. There's some excellent discussion of those results on the M-Scaler thread on Head-Fi and it provides a great deal more context than you'll find on ASR
@@PassionforSound I've done hours of reading on this subject, as far as i'm concerned Amir has won this gunfight....Measurements don't lie people do....
The fact that you think of this as a gunfight makes me sad, Steve. This is a subjective hobby intended to bring fun and enjoyment to people through their enjoyment of music.
There's no trickery here, Steve, despite what Amir's measurements are suggesting to him and others. To use myself as an example, I've tried many products that are expensive and marketed as amazing only to not enjoy them (e.g. AudioQuest Diamond USB, Abyss Diana TC, DCA Stealth). And yet, when I was loaned the M-Scaler and was able to take the time to listen with and without it, I found it to be good enough that I bought one for myself. There's no trickery there and expectation bias can be easily overcome with some extended listening and critical thinking (e.g. conscious testing of assumptions). If that weren't the case, I'd own the AQ Diamond, a Stealth and god knows what other gear that's marketed as "the best" but that's not necessarily to my tastes. I have no issue with people wanting measurements for their own decision making and I enjoy seeing how different devices perform on measurements, but the flood of commenters coming to this channel (and no doubt others) to abuse products, me and other commenters because of some measurements that Amir has posted while using a device in a way that it's not really intended to be used (although it does work that way) is disrespectful of the time and effort I put into careful and critical listening and, more importantly to me, is creating a divisive culture in a world that needs far less division and far more open-minded discussion where people seek to understand the opinions and perspectives of others even if they don't agree. I'm done discussing anything to do with the M-Scaler and ASR.
Many youtubers talk about being independent, this review truly is. Great consumer advice, thank you.
My pleasure. Independence is a very important value for me in this hobby. I need to always be able to share with honesty even when it's upset some suppliers in the past (and present)
Good to be able to watch your reviews again Lachlan! Hope everyone at home is doing well. My first IEM was the KZ ZS10 Pro, DQ6, ED9, ATR, EDX Pro and the last I bought was the Tin HiFi T2. Prior to IEM, I was mostly using Bluetooth earbuds. I was impressed with the KZZS10 Pro, also like the DQ6 but the rest were just impulse buy because it’s cheap. Then, so,who’s my ears just don’t work with IEMs, I find the, too bright and can’t stay in my ears regardless of trying and purchasing different buds. Hence, headphones became my favorite. If the lot, the T2 was the best. I used to pair the, with the FiiO BTR5. While at my desk, the Tin T2 works fabulously well with the iFi Zen DAC V2, a DAC amp I still considered my Best Buy.
Nice to hear from you, Billy. Quite a lot of people have the same troubles as you with IEMs. I sometimes wonder if it's partly to do with manufacturers tuning most of them to have some extra treble energy compared to a flat response.
In my opiunion, KZ is the brand most people would try out before buying more expensive stuff. I bought a KZ, after watching TH-cam videos, a few years back and thought they sounded good but got tired of listening to them after a few minutes. There was just something wrong with them. Because of this introduction to IEMs, I now own 8 IEMs, with some still on order, even though I only have two ears. I don’t understand the graphs but my ears can tell what sounds good or not.
What matters most is what you hear (not the graphs) and I agree that KZ, CCA and Blon are three excellent entries into IEMs.
Great video! Your take on KZ controversy is insightful. Could you please review FiiO FH5S and compare it with FH5S pro? I think the only difference they did was the cables on those. FH5S has received a lot of negative response from most of the leading reviewers and there are hardly any reviews for Pros. Would love to hear you speak about them. Thanks.
Glad you found the video interesting! I've got the FH9 coming up soon and will chat to FiiO about trying the FH5S next
I have no problem with KZ because their product is very cheap and more important, they sounds very good in their price range.
That's kind of how I feel too. I don't agree with their flexibility with the truth, but for the price and performance, it's hard to go wrong
I really enjoyed this. I dipped my toe into the iem world with KZ ZS pro, and tried out the CCA KZ Zax, they sound great to me, cheap and a way in to test the water as it where. I will move on and try other brands after researching and hearing reviews, and buy better equipment to enjoy my music, but for now, for me, these are fine. Thanks for the common sense and reasurrance. I feel I haven't wasted my time of money in buying these iems.
So glad I could help and that you've had a chance to try out the world of IEMs!
I was very skeptic about IEM's maybe because I disliked BA drivers or lack of comfort. Recently we have planar IEM wars 😅 and some good dynamic options so my curiosity has won and I joined to party. I Have bought based only on HBB opinion IEM called Tangzu Wu Zetian and I'm not disappointed by the sound :). That tiny planar do wonders so I'm not even gonna complain about build quality lol 👍
Just like headphones, but maybe more so, IEMs can be crappy or amazing. Glad you're dipping your toes in the IEM pond so you can hear their pros and cons for yourself.
It's interesting what you are saying, I wonder if there might also be massive variations between the units of the same name. I have the ZEX Pro (CRN) and the CRA and they are quite a bit different so much that, recently I gave a friend of mine (who is not into audio gear) a listen on the CRN while advising him to upgrade from his seriously basic earbuds (he's not prepared to pay much). He enjoyed the sound and then when I gave him the CRA he didn't like it at all even when I told that he could buy it at half the price of the CRN, he said he'd rather spend more.
And I must say I myself enjoy it even after listening to IEMs like the LetShouer S12 or 7Hz Timeless which I also own, it doesn't sound like a CCA C12 would sound for example. I've also found that it is very EQ friendly too. Maybe some of these units are connected and others aren't.
That's interesting to hear, Tai Dee. Do you also find that the two sound very different? Getting a good fit and seal is super important so I'm wondering if that is why they sounded so different for your friend. Of course, product variance is also very possible given what's happened
Thank you for the revisit! I jumped on this amp when it was made available. Loved the form factor ( small ) and the idea of a tube, sort of, sound. I use this for iems--- don't laugh, but I find my Ear Studio ES1oo mk2 as the dac. This little device is awesome for control of the input power as well as the way it sounds. This means, yes I am going Bluetooth to connect, but it is still awesome. I have a lot of control with the Ear Studio app and the gain and volume of the Piety, so I can tune for many different phones needing different input power demands. It is budget and loads of listening pleasure.
I think that's part of the beauty of this amp - whether you use Bluetooth, a basic DAC or a high end DAC, it's always going to sound and fun. Enjoy!
I love my ES100, it's a fantastic little device and I use it daily. I used to feed it into an Xduoo hybrid tube amp before got rid of it. The only reason why I'm considering another dac/amp is because I don't like the way my HD560S sounds. However I don't know if that's because I'm not using the more powerful balanced connection or the 560 is so resolving that it needs a different/better DAC. Right now they are collecting dust because they instantly bother me and crash symbols sound like trash.
Thank you for another in depth review Lachlan.
My pleasure!
I’m glad the conclusion you came to matched up with what makes sense. If it sounds correct it’s because it is, they never bothered to tune using the others drivers. Which makes sense because these were tuned based on sound and if the other drivers weren’t connected the influencers cresting these had no way to know. They just knew how it sounded. Regrading Crinacles iem he disassociated his name from it and came out with a scratching video of them so I think that one is more than conjecture.
Also if they’re all about the same price the cca cra is around $15 from linsoul definitely the best value.
I would definitely choose the CRA too. It's a shame they felt the need to mess with "fake drivers" or that their QC is actually that poor because they're clearly capable of producing some great IEMs.
@@PassionforSound yup despite what I said I recommend the cca cra all the time it’s an incredible value for the money.
Thanks for your video. I had recently just got in to this world of IEMs and my first ones were the KZ ZS10 Pro. After I had made my purchase I found out about what was going on and started to doubt my choice but your video solidified it for me finally. I am happy with them and perhaps in the future if I decide to I may purchase another brand alltogether to get a different sound if I want. I did see that KZ had "renewed" the 10 pros with the KZ ZS 10 Pro X and they were the same price as the other ones. As I had a return window opportunity with Amazon I decided to "upgrade" and trade them in even though I knew I wasn't technically getting an upgrade but thought it would be nice to have their latest ones. To me no difference in sound and I'm still happy with them either way.
Glad you were able to get the "upgrade" and find enjoyment in the KZs. They're still a good sounding IEM regardless of the driver controversy. Enjoy!
Check out CCA HM20, that could be noticeable upgrade from either ones you mentioned.
Of course I only found this video *after* buying 7 KZ and 2 CCA IEMs, most in rapid succession. (I'm an impulsive shopper and the fact that I have to wait for them to get all the way from China to Belgium certainly doesn't help.) I did do my due diligence (try saying that quickly ten times in a row) on the most recent purchases (KZ PR1 Pro, KZ ATE, KZ ZNA and the CCA CRA) so I'm fairly certain that those'll sound differently enough when they get there, but your video certainly explains why my noob ears couldn't distinguish between my KZ ZSN Pro and KZ ZS10 Pro several years ago. I just figured my hearing wasn't sensitive enough.
Haha. Thanks for sharing this. Sounds like definitely a case of "it's not me, it's you" (where the "you" is KZ/CCA)
Nice review on the kz/ cca iems...i got into iems in.march of 2022...whizzer bs1 was my first, now i wanted another iem..saw akros with his kz debackle video, and guess i got into iems at the right time after a tws bender...i ave 7 iems now, one pair is the dual driver rx6z..i ave the cca / cra/ tinhifi 3 plus, etc...i might be new to iems, but the first thing i noticed wen i listened to my rev rx6, what that you coukd hear, one driver plays the mids treble/ and you can audibly hear wen the second driver picks up the bass...luv my cca/ craz, but , there had to be wen hbb/ crin/ and audible difference, in the iems in question vs a single driver iem, just by the sound difference of how an iem plays...anyway...thanx for ur video..ya made good points..
Peace
Glad you liked the video. That's not good to hear about the poor crossover tuning in the rx6!
@@PassionforSound guess ya misunderstood...The dual drivers in the rev rx6 work like they are supposed too...I was texting thoze 2 guys/ hbb/ crin shoulda noticed , wen there demos , were not working right
Ah, sorry. I get you now.
Good review and thanks for the good and honest opinion. Think that KZ has become a go to budget IEM brand wich brings recognition and some bad mouths. Its a shame but it is what it is in the current society. Small tip, talking about colours and a macro shot of the IEM's with rgb lightning doesn't make things more visible
Yes, I'm currently playing with white lighting only on B-roll shots. It's not as pretty, but probably more informative.
Interesting video. I have a couple sets of KZ iems - the ZS 10 Pro and the ZAX 16, the latter which is supposedly and updated version of the former. They both sound relatively the same but the ZAX 16 (7BA/1DD per side) is a touch less aggressive, which is a good thing.
However, I recently purchased the crinacle-tuned CRN ZEX Pro which sounds pretty good but it seemed to be missing something sound-wise. A few days later, the right IEM stopped working so I returned them. That may have nothing to do with this redundant drivers issue but I couldn't help but notice that both sides had an unusual amount of wiring inside, like a clump of it was just placed inside with no direction or connection to anything. Again, that may not have meant anything but I kept thinking about this controversy and whether the unusual sound was because of it.
Anyway, I'm enjoying my ZAX 16's for now but, with me, I'll grow tired of them and start listening to something else for awhile. Rinse and repeat.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing your experiences. KZ can definitely make some nicely tuned IEMs, but they do seem to be largely quite similar.
I have known the KZ brand for several years already but only owned one KZ (ZEX) and one CCA (NRA). People on a budget when gaga over the KZ releases and some reviewers/influencers overhyped their stuff as the "best sounding", "only one you need" or something that can beat 2 to even 5 times their price. Never was impressed with the aesthetics, build, and subpar (at least for me) accessories like cables and stock tips (their Starlines are decent though). As far as sound, to me, the variance among models are not that far from each other. Maybe a slight boost in treble here or bass there. I saw where people were going but, at the end of the day, never really appreciated their products. as I never found a reason to. I know loyal fans of the brand and I respect them for that. Just not for me. Great content as always Lachlan in terms of objectivity and subjectivity!
Thanks CJ and very well said. I completely agree 🙂
Hi, my name is Jeff. Myself, Delta fyre and Akros were the first who found the KZ issue. If you have any questions about my discoveries feel free to ask me anything. I can tell you anything you need to know.
Thanks for commenting, Jeff. Were you someone that publicly apologised?
@@PassionforSound I'm sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I didn't apologize for anything because I only shared my data and personal opinion of what I was hearing/wasn't hearing.
I try to let the data speak for itself and clarity my personal opinion whenever possible, but I try to make no claims unless I am 100% certain of them. Even then I still try to take defective units and unit variance into account and make sure people are aware.
I think you might be referring to Delta fyre who made a public apology as he was the one who started the #exposeKZ nomenclature, he was also publishing graphs making claims of fake drivers and that certain drivers were defective, with little understanding of how tuning works, when in reality the vast majority of the drivers were actually working, (I've never encountered a fake KZ driver in the many I have taken apart.) But some of the drivers were just working to a lesser extent while the DD was doing the majority of the heavy lifting hence the similar tunings. I've also found at least 3 different KZ DD materials that were not published in their marketing materials. I.e carbon black, titanium coated, PET 6um and 3um.
In my findings the only iems that contained blatantly false marketing info were the DQ6 and DQ6S as their two 6mm DD were not electrically connected in the case of the DQ6 (sample size of 2) and we're wired in reversed phase to one another in the DQ6S (sample size of 2) while both the 6mm DD tube passage (DQ6 and DQ6S) were blocked by glue, so even if they were electrically connected in the case of DQ6 or wired in correct phase in the case of DQ6S they wouldn't have made sound.
The ZEX PRO/CRN M-Stats were most definitely real and working whereas the BA was only adding about 5/10% of the sound profile and there were no obstructions found. (Sample size of 3)
Unlike Delta fyre's graphs just removing drivers and then graphing, (which in my opinion is an incorrect approach as the signal voltage would still find a path between the remaining drivers and the subtly increased ohm load at a specific freq would give the illusion of little difference between graphs, also I tried to explain to him that various phase relationships between drivers can actually cancel each-other out at certain frequencies causing some to even go up when removing drivers and that timbre also needs to be taken into account)
In my testing I would remove everything else in the signal chain while keeping the same Impedance load and impedance curve, recreating exactly what those individual drivers would play during normal operation.
In short summary, everything was blown way out of proportion because of a lack of understanding and explanation and a desire to stir up trouble for a company that admittedly made a few mistakes, but ones much less minor than people attribute toward them. This has pretty much been my stance since the thing happened and in my opinion the only real offender is the DQ6/DQ6S.
If you would like any more elaboration I could go on for a while. Lol
Thanks so much for explaining and for the great write-up! You've answered my question about the apology which another viewer raised and then also provided lots of great information to clarify things. Thank you!
Im having trouble choosing between CCA CRN and KZ ESX 10th Anniversary Edt. Which one should i pick?
I haven't tried the ESX yet, but it's in the queue for a review in the coming months
Thank you, can you compare it to CCA CRN by then?
I'll see what I have in the same price range, but I probably can
@@PassionforSound Thank you so much!
My pleasure. Hopefully I can help...
I will buy the Cra soon, I have the Salnotes zeros for now
I haven't tried the Salnotes, but the CRA are great
@@PassionforSound thanks ♥️
Hi . Which would be the better option. Kz as 16 pro. Or ie 500pro seenhiser
I haven't heard them both so I can't comment - sorry!
my intro into IEMs were Shure SE 235-something
So wondering if this tier is worth it or should I get Drumeo in ears
The Shures are great IEMs, but they've got a distinct tuning to them. You might find something like these to bring a nice, different flavour. I don't know the Drumeo in ears so can't comment on those.
@@PassionforSound thank you for taking the time. I'll see how the CCAs act
Hope you love them!
Is kz still good? Are single driver's affected? Because I use KZ EDA a 3 pair earphones for heavy bass, balance and resolution. From what I know they are all single dynamic driver. And of course they are all very different from each other. I messaged them in their own store in Lazada and they said that the driver issue is all normal now. I'm not sure on how much of that is true tho. I hope they are all good now.
I don't know what the truth is about the drivers, but they make a nice sounding IEM (although many of them sound the same). I wouldn't bother buying multiple KZ IEMs, but I wouldn't advise against the brand either
I prefer a V-shaped signature with plenty of bass (but not piercing highs and muddy bass). Would you have a recommendation for a cheaper IEM that would fit my needs?
I'm currently using Edifier Neobuds Pro which I think has a Knowles BA driver matched with a dynamic driver
KZ ZS10 PRO X is soooo addictive and great!
I use it at least 5 hours a day ever since I got them over 10 days ago. l listen to 7hz Zero only for comparison but not for fun.
That's great to hear. So glad you're enjoying them
Does they still working?
@@me3mmar yes they does. I listen to murre expensive IEM usually though. Tinhifi p1max or simgot e500. Cheap IEM sound cheap, no matter how great they are for the price. This is the truth.
The KZ earphones are amazing!
Glad you like them
I try and not buy from sketchy companies so I would not even think of buying from them
That's completely fair
Wouldn’t the not working drivers still add resistance or something to the signal ?
It depends on how they're connected (or not connected) 🙂
What would be the logical step up from KZ CRN? T3+, or does one need bide their time, save and stretch up to an OH10 or S12? (Verum One MK2 sound quality/signature fan)
If you love the Verum 1, I'd probably recommend the S12S and while you're saving up, there might just be a new option on the cards too...
@@PassionforSound mmm intrigued, care to offer up a hint? Fingers crossed its more affordable
Haha. Not sure I'm allowed to just yet 🙂
@@PassionforSound whaaa 😱 boo, as soon as ya can 🤪 please
@@PassionforSound
Mmm might it be the Aria Snow? (a swimming review indeed)
A cautionary tale for reviewers and consumers, and for would-be collaborators.
Absolutely!
I got a zex pro (mic) for 21$ new and cca cra for literally 7$, both NOT on sale. No, I'm not kidding, but most of you who live somewhere far from china would likely never have that price, but for the price that I got them, they are absolute bargain.
btw for the price of a mini dsp ear, you can get a clone iec 6018-4 and a clone grass ra402, then calibrate it to a real one, that way your measurements will be way easier to read and compare, because nearly no one use mini dsp and they use standard measurements rig for actually database measurement(where most measurements can be found and compare to each other), and the mini dsp ear acoustic impedance are just way too wrong even after compensation
Good prices for the IEMs!
So I'm guessing this is why my KZ ZX10 Pro has no bass? I bought mine in April 2022, around the time this controversy was taking place. This entire time I thought that was how they were supposed to sound.
After gaining more experience I decided to do some searching and you conveniently had already made a video addressing it.
I'm really hoping Amazon will help me with the warranty, even if I only get a partial refund. However I won't be buying KZ IEMs again. I don't want to enable untrustworthy companies that don't put the effort into developing their own products.
That's interesting to hear that your pair lacked bass. You might be right that they were a part of the apparently faulty batch(es)
Hello please advise KZ or CCA? For bass player.
It depends more on the model than the brand. You'd need to work out how you want the IEM to sound for your bass playing and then identify an IEM that meets your sonic needs. Depending on your budget, the Kiwi Ears Singolo could be a really nice bass player's IEM I think.
@@PassionforSound thank you ❤️
I tend to be more impressed with great single driver implementations much more than the iems that market a maximum number of drivers. Sets like the 7hz and ie600 are fantastic implementation of single planar and dynamic driver configuration. Not comparing either of these models to KZ just the point of not chasing driver count.
The Symphonium Helios 4BA looks tempting but I'd need to sell something to justify getting another tuned set. (Like my Oracles with basically the same FR).
I agree, Ace. There are some great multi-drivers around, but few can match the coherency of a great single-driver.
With so many IEMs targeting the Harman curve, finding something different can be a challenge
@@PassionforSound having the Solaris SE, Legend X, Mest Mk2, Andromeda Gold, TA Oracle.... kinda covered. Should just focus on saving for the VC or Atrium come ZMF November (dream of green stabilized wood)
Now there's a great goal!
@@Maver1ck911 wow you invested more cash into iem's than me in full size headphones xD
I really like the CCA CRA.. it's a cheap iem that sounds pretty good.
I agree 🙂
Hasn't the controversy been "resolved" ? As the people who accused KZ of the fake drivers made an apology, but the damage had been done. The extra drivers they said were almost inaudible were for embellishment or tuning, and is not the traditional use of multiple drivers that let them each take a section of the frequency response. (Basically a DD driver producing the entire range with other BA or EST drivers "helping out")
I wasn't aware of that step in the process. What I do know is that there's not enough difference between these models to justify different purchases, but each one individually sounds very good
In the apology in facebook the original poster mentioned the BA & EST is supposed to help adding timbre/characteristics to the sound and that is why it is not showing in the frequency response graph.
However I find it kinda suspicious because KZ themselves did not address this issue in their official apology nor they ever explained about the function of adding "timbre" when this issue went viral. Mind you that this offical apology from KZ came before the facebook poster apology.
Shouldn't it make sense to clear things up with your customers and tell them about the adding timbre feature of the BA & EST drivers? After all KZ is the designer of these triple driver IEMs, how could they not know about the main purpose of them BA & EST drivers? It's like they didn't know about this feature and came out with "adding timbre" as a good reason after they contacted, discussed and made an agreement with the original facebook poster to make this reason up in the facebook apology.
KZ and their triple driver seems fishy and I don't trust them. Triple driver at such a price is too good too be true afterall and I am very skeptical about things that are too good to be true.
I don't know how a driver is meant to add anything to the sound without altering the frequency response. Unless it's what I suggested in this video that the drivers are altering the internal resonance of the cavities and therefore changing the character of the sound without actually producing any sound of their own. It's pretty questionable marketing IMO even if the IEMs do sound great. Makes me wonder if they paid the original poster or make the apology too.
The failure rate, the insignificant distinctions without a difference, the clout chasing with collaborations, the poorly handled & opaque vanity driver controversy... yeah steer clear.
In this segment you get what you pay for.
Moondrop and Thieaudio are at least still reputable while achieving a target house sound married to a target FR based on Harmon.
The draw in this segment of the market, especially with the high rate of "new units", is the target customer usually has a wild collection of IEM's under 500 USD (really under 200USD) and many mid fi and entry on/over ears driven by SMSL/Topping units. (It's like a fist full of ChiFi M&M's... sure they're different colors but they all taste the same and are relatively cheap).
This is to say, the most vocal proponents are those who have jumped in "the deep" end of the hobby in terms of their purchasing habits (upgrade/sidegrade-itis, 99% blind buyers, reliant on internet reviews and youtube personalities for information) but really they're in a plastic pool in the backyard up to their ankles. While the hobby can be prohibitively expensive(and cost many times alot of peoples rent to truly arrive at "Hi-Fi"), it's ultimately damaging and bad for consumers for companies to target the entry segment with misleading marketing to tap into this consumerism.
Very good points all around!
Yeah the decision to attach their products to popular TH-cam celebrities os cynically smart. because it makes it so fans don't want to criticize the product. Because it reflects on someone they have a parasocial relationship with. It's bad for the hobby and for review credibility. good for the companies and biggest reviewers.
I'm keeping my KZ is all I know. Sure only 3 of the 12 drivers work but you should see how it measures! 😁
Haha. Now that's the attitude! 😁
i bought kz zsn pro but for some reason i think it doesn't sound natural.
Unfortunately, all our ears are a little different so what is right for me won't be right for everyone. It can take a little while to work out which reviewers hear things the same as you.
What I would suggest before giving up though is to try some different tips on them as sometimes a slightly deeper or shallower insertion can make a big difference.
@@PassionforSound previously I used metallic single driver earphones and loved their sound. Zsn pro is mostly plastic build and I can say that there is a difference between metallic and plastic earphone sounds.
@@muneeburrehman450 The material does not determine the sound quality itself.
KZ hbb dq6s are great sounding earphones.
Hi! Main difference between Sundara and Edition Xs?
They're very different tunings and also the soundstage presentation is different too. Sundara is a bit more laidback and also produces a better sense of soundstage size and depth while the XS is very left/right
OK if you are buying your first IEM. I would not buy these since I have a couple of IEMs already. They all sounded the same.
I tend to agree that they are a nice starter, but not something to collect lots of
If your budget is not high, you can consider buying this first.
Absolutely! These are a great starting option (along with some of the Blon IEMs too)
Funny thing is that each audiophile reviver its saying totally opposite things about some Iem's when there is only one or two reviews inn net, when big guys like HBB, Crinacle, Gizaudio etc do video about, then rest revives starts looks almost identical. I starting to thinking that there is no universal audiophile sound understanding and classification. Its only very bad audio, ok audio and good audio. Problem is that in blind test many audiophiles choose cheap IEM's over expensive ones, what means the most important criterium is personal taste to sound and someone else opinion we can trade only as a starter nothing else! I bought already Iems that been lifted on popular channels but for my ears they sounds like music coming from underground.
That's very true and I think there are two possible reasons.
1) we all hear a little differently due to our ear anatomy th-cam.com/video/Y41oQTfDWiI/w-d-xo.html
2) there are some perceptions in the reviewer community of what sounds good and it's often not about sounding like live music. My personal reference point is always how the same track would sound if you were in the room with the musicians. I seem to be a little different in that regard.
@@PassionforSound thank you for answering and understanding my pour English. I will add your channel to my subscriptions. Greetings.
Glad I could help, Damian! Thanks for the sub
KZ did bait and switch in the PR2 changing the IEM by removing some component which changed the tonality of it. I would never buy anything from a company that was caught bait and switching
It definitely appeared that way
I stopped watching as soon as you mentioned you received the iems from KZ. Their QA failure means reviewers iems will always be perfect while the rest of us will rely on pot luck to get what we pay for. I, for one, will never buy KZ again. Just my two cents worth.
If you stopped watching then you won't know that the QC and questions about KZ's honesty are exactly what I was discussing. It's probably worth giving some of us a chance before jumping to conclusions.
@@PassionforSound You are right. I guess I just lost interest in the company and what they got to offer.
That's totally fair. I am certainly not here defending their actions. Appreciate you replying 🙂
well said. Don't get sucked in to getting hyped up for new products.
Yes. Not when they're pumped out so fast. Good product design should take at least a bit of time for testing variants, gathering feedback, etc. It's not like software development where it can be released early and then fixed with updates. (Not to devalue the immense amount of time and effort that goes into software development)
Am I deaf ? I have the hbb and the moon drop aria. I like the hbb more
That doesn't mean you're deaf 🙂. The HBB isn't bad, just not as good as the other I reviewed here. I also don't rate the Aria as highly as some people do.
@@PassionforSound I like massive Bass. 2000's car sub life in my for active years. Also the KZ fit is great. Moondrop is so smooth it doesn't grip as well.
Thanks😂
dont think you understand what they did, the only way to know if they are being honest now is to open them up so that is the ONLY way to test whether they have fixed the problem because there def was a problem
I definitely understand what they did - I've read all the threads and chatted to KZ directly. My point is that the average consumer can't open up the devices and test them so if they still choose to buy, I wanted to discuss what they're getting and the answer is that they're getting a bunch of models that essentially sound the same so they should not worry about which one has more drivers or a certain type of driver because they might not even be working and make no significant difference anyway.
Lol yes one of the best iems for the price they just are listen to them don't always just listen to people lol
Very true, John! Happy listening
Edward Burg
They’re so cheap it dosnt even warrant talking about !
I feel a bit that way too. Not like they're multi-100 dollar IEMs
50 pct of the review is abt the issue…annoying!
That's pretty much what the title says...
2 title questions not answered at all, 20 minutes wasted
Kz may well have some QC issues or done some shiffy stuff with their $20 iem's but Chord and their empty $5000 snake oil M Scaler box is on a whole new level...
You need to look into that one more before jumping to those conclusions, Steve. There's some excellent discussion of those results on the M-Scaler thread on Head-Fi and it provides a great deal more context than you'll find on ASR
@@PassionforSound I've done hours of reading on this subject, as far as i'm concerned Amir has won this gunfight....Measurements don't lie people do....
The fact that you think of this as a gunfight makes me sad, Steve. This is a subjective hobby intended to bring fun and enjoyment to people through their enjoyment of music.
@@PassionforSound It makes me sad to when people get tricked into buying something that's useless... it's also a objective hobby too....
There's no trickery here, Steve, despite what Amir's measurements are suggesting to him and others. To use myself as an example, I've tried many products that are expensive and marketed as amazing only to not enjoy them (e.g. AudioQuest Diamond USB, Abyss Diana TC, DCA Stealth). And yet, when I was loaned the M-Scaler and was able to take the time to listen with and without it, I found it to be good enough that I bought one for myself. There's no trickery there and expectation bias can be easily overcome with some extended listening and critical thinking (e.g. conscious testing of assumptions). If that weren't the case, I'd own the AQ Diamond, a Stealth and god knows what other gear that's marketed as "the best" but that's not necessarily to my tastes.
I have no issue with people wanting measurements for their own decision making and I enjoy seeing how different devices perform on measurements, but the flood of commenters coming to this channel (and no doubt others) to abuse products, me and other commenters because of some measurements that Amir has posted while using a device in a way that it's not really intended to be used (although it does work that way) is disrespectful of the time and effort I put into careful and critical listening and, more importantly to me, is creating a divisive culture in a world that needs far less division and far more open-minded discussion where people seek to understand the opinions and perspectives of others even if they don't agree.
I'm done discussing anything to do with the M-Scaler and ASR.