Really wish their death scene was kept in the film. Would've been a good, heroic end for the twins and probably would've made Sentinel even more menacing by adding two more bots to his kill count. That, or just don't have them in the films and have Arcee and Jolt fill their part in ROTF. Arcee can be more the "straight man" of the trio of her, Bee and Jolt, while Jolt can be more of a boisterous comic relief / action hero, like Mirage in Rise of the Beasts. And then, maybe have Jolt die in DOTM after we've really familiarised ourselves with him, as that'll add further raise the stakes and drama. Maybe Sentinel kills him after Ironhide like with the twins, or he helps the humans reach the skyscraper in Chicago and Shockwave kills him, just to give him *_SOMETHING_* to do.
They’re definitely stereotypes. Low intelligence, low education (no reading), slang and their speech patterns. In fighting constantly. I will admit that non black people can embody these stereotypes as well. However, when they do, they get accused of acting black. “Wiggers”, if you will.
As a kid back then I never really saw them as like black stereotype, I always thought they were more like hillbilly rednecks than the hood type gangsta
I’m genuinely curious, what about them screams hillbilly redneck? I’m not being an ass, all the people involved have said wannabe gangsters or rappers.
All they needed was one scene where the two of them drop their personas and talk to each other in cybertronian, questioning why people are so off put and annoyed by them when they thought humans loved rap culture and stuff and expressing how they don't really know what to do after spending so much time learning about it (too much time). Jazz did this type of thing the right way.
The "we don't really do much reading" scene never came off as racist to me, because it just fits their characters. They aren't the brightest at this point in their story, and a line like that makes sense😂
You say that as if writing a character as a racist stereotype has to contradict the plot If they needed a new transformer to drive them because the Asian transformer with small eyes couldnt drive properly that would still fit the character but it doesnt make it not a racist characterisation
It’s weird as the voice acter of mudflap didn’t think they where racial stereotypes and just thought they where funny I hate to be that dude but thanks for the comments! (edit)
Finding out what people thought made them a rude stereotype doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, if they were they'd have fat ass lips and be singing*cough Disney cough cough*
@@BKSExperience do you mind if I ask what offended you about these characters? They resemble SpongeBob more to me than a racist stereotype and I'm sorry transformers of all things made you feel that way as that's the opposite it strives for
I always saw the twins as being younger siblings that would do the typical sibling bickering and fighting, it was hilarious to me. Especially when you take into consideration that the survival of earth depended on these badass autobots meanwhile you have two goofballs just trying to survive for themselves. Being an older brother, i related to the fighting between the two and how worried skids was when mudflap was eaten by devastator. I would have loved to see the twins in the future movies, they were my personal favorite autobots.
When I was young and oblivious to how controversial they were I used to love the twins. They were hilarious even if they added absolutely nothing to the plot. Sidepoint, how can Cybertronians even be "twins"?
It really sucks that the twins were cut from dark of the moon because they were one of my favourite transformers but my all time favourite is bumblebee
Looking back at the twins with a more matured perspective, opposed to when I first watched the movie as a kid. I can say that I definitely see them as a comic relief, wannabe gangster type. In a similar fashion to how Jazz acted in the first movie.
I think all of this could have been solved by just making their CGI model's faces not look like *that*. Like just give them more alien looking faces like all the other transformers. Their voice acting didn't have to change as much but looking like that combined with the 'wannabe gangster' voice performance was not a good mix.
they arent racist though , and u wont get a studio series without the gold tooth , and other shit , if u dont like black people just fuckin say it , your the racist one , not skids and mudflap
Personally, I never found the Twins offensive or annoying. I honestly always saw them as two young privates who are always fighting or bickering, which is something I tend to see in movies about the military. At least the ones I have seen. On the other hand, I do understand why some people may find them offensive or annoying, especially since we don’t get a chance to know what really makes Skids and Mudflap tick, something that's always been a problem with Micheal Bay's Transformers movies. Also, good work on this video, Theorymus. I now have a better understanding of why the Twins are some of the most controversial characters in Transformers. On a side note: if anyone is wondering if I include the Twins in my rewrite of the Transformers movies, yes I do include them in both Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, and Transformers: Dark of the Moon. However, I decided to write them as two young Autobots who tend to bicker or fight each other. There's even a scene in ROTF where Bumblebee stops the two from fighting and punishes them, as their fighting almost gets his best friend and her brother killed. At the same time, though, we get enough time to understand what kind of characters Skids and Mudflap are supposed to be, something I’ve tried to fix for both the Autobots and Decepticons in my rewrites.
@@johncaulfield8935 Unfortunately, I only have a TH-cam account, not a channel, and they’re not available to the TH-cam community right now as they’re still a work in progress. But hopefully someday in the future, if I do decide to get a channel of my own, I will definitely post the final scripts for the rewrites and hopefully turn them into a stop motion series.
I thought the novel was lighter in tone like the comic but shooting ironhide and his head dissolving while he's still aware? Mudflap shot in his mouth? That is some horrifying stuff
@@calebprescott440definitely not. Skids is a very different character in every other continuity (a fantastic and interesting character at that) and if they do return, they'll be far more faithful and interesting.
I still love the twins, being a twin myself I loved them as they were the opposite of me and my twin, where as he and I get along and argue a little, SKids and Mudflap not only argue quite a bit, but the also physically fight each other, yet we can see they still care about and love each other despite this. And being lergly a first it is kind of funny to me to see 2 Cybertronians acting like moronic iliterate gangsters, even saying "Pop a cap in his ass." Sure thy may come off as a little racist, but so might Jazz in G1to some people. THe whole iliterate gangster despite being heavily stereotyped with blacks is not something tied just to blacks, as anyone whether black or white who ends up in "thug culture" often is iliterate or a violant moron as this lifestyle seemed easier for them rather then actually gettign an education and being a productive part of society.
I saw Rotf as a kid, and the Twins were my favourite new characters, because they just did random funny stuff. I saw them as two young bots on their first mission trying to be tough, and they had kinda younger/older sibling dynamic with Bumblebee.
Long story short, despite their implied "controversy", Skids and Mudflap where robbed horribly. ( And Sentinal was always a traitorous p.o.s.) On a personal level, The DOTM Deluxe Mudflap is one of my dearest parts of my collection.
The main reason I loved transformers 2 was because of the twins, being part african american and an identical twin myself these characters fit perfectly with me.
When i first got the movie on dvd i actually didn't know Skids and Wheelie were voiced the Same person i didn't know Barricade and Ironhide both were voiced by Jess Harnell
"The lead designer at Hasbro is blocking people on Instagram who ask if the twins will get Studio Series toys" to me that is a rather immature move if the twins aren't gonna get studio series toys, just say it outright and don't block people who ask
the reason behind us not having new toys from them from the Studio Series is because of the ESG agenda that Hasbro has to fulfill. Any slip-up or misinterpreted speech by one of your employees or partners will not go down well with shareholders. That's why they avoid even talking about it.
That one screenwriter sounded like he was just reading a script that he didn't agree with. Skids and Mudflap should have stayed all through the Bayverse, and not be killed in DOTM like they were supposed to be. People in companies blocking people who ask questions should be fired immediately. That's not a good look for the company they are representing.
People on the internet are such kids sometimes. First they took away a better ending from RotF, then completely misinterpreted twins, took away the best ending to a trilogy and then twins' tragic deaths, which would have contributed to their character development? These points would have made these movies a lot better, but people decided otherwise... *...then whined why these movies turned out not so great afterwards.*
As someone who’s not American, who doesn’t not care about Western identity politics, and who can take a “JOKE”, Skids and Mudflaps are one of the most interesting new characters in ROTF and are amusing AF.
honestly they showed that not all Autobots were heroic nearly super powered muscular bodied robots like Optimus, sideswipe, bee, I really loved them and their personalities made them own every scene they were in
I wonder if maybe Bay was contractually obligated or something to film the Chevy Sparks regardless if the characters made it to the movie, given how Bay was quick to say "No Twins in TF3" just the day after he filmed a scene with them and still went on to do scenes with the Twins after he said they weren't in it
It's very possible since general motors uses these films to gather hype around their vehicles. Such as the Mudflap inspired spark launched in South Korea
I don't fucking care about people's opinions on them their fucking funny asf and their my favorite characters of all of bayverse I hate that they were cut from DOTM
As a kid I just thought their face design was really overly caricature looking and exaggerated, honestly kind of ugly to look at even if I liked their action scenes so Im on the fence for this being racist or not, all I know is Tom Kenny voiced Skids.
I feel like if they were actually in Dotm, and if they included the death scenes, they wouldn’t be hated at all because the audience would know they have grown level of maturity since the 2nd film. We already saw how badass they were when fighting Devastator so I think they deserved to be in the final film.
If skids and mudflap was in the no prisoners only trophies (DOTM) scene that'll be a mad trio Bumblebee Skids and Mudflap back to back against soundwave barricade and other decepticons
People really need to learn that just because something may seem to resemblance racial stereotypes doesn't mean it is drawn from or represents said stereotypes.
Essentially this aligns with everything we’ve heard about the production of rotf. It seems like everyone in production on that movie we’re operating in diffrent rooms. Also really didn’t help that the movie was written during the writers strike in 07. I get what you mean about them not being inherently offensive but I’d argue it’s still in bad taste.
I feel bad for Tom Kenny. He had to voice Skids and probably felt as horrified as everyone else was, especially since he was the voice of SpongeBob SquarePants.
As a kid I didn't mind and was completely ignorant about the controversy I did thought the twins were trying to be wannabe gangsters but I imagine them as hillbillies. As I got older I do see why people would think they're racial steryotypes and wouldn't blame them. I heavy disliked them not because of the steryotypes but because they looked weird (in the face) and God awful annoying. I probably wouldn't mind seeing their death's in the film because the way how the novel describes it shows how tense and shocking it was especially when the autobots experienced fight or flight mode and Mudflap's fury was insane. I believe if they used that scene it probably would've made the twins a little bit better.
Take Mudflap, Give him a Campervan Alt mode, Give him big Glasses, give him A Spanish Accent, Name him a name of a Character from the opening of Bumblebee BOOM! RISE OF THE BEASTS WHEELJACK!!!!!!
My takeaway from all this is, unintentional racism is still racism, however it would be inappropriate to take the approach you take to fix malicious racism to fix it. I don’t think people would complain if the characters came back in DOTM with a more refined version of the personality and humor. They would benefit from an actually written script, as they said, they were hardly written in ROTF due to the strike. It’s easier to cross a line when the words aren’t in front of you to look at. But, since they were cut after ROTF, we the audience only have their more controversial outing to base opinions off of.
I wish they were redesigned to look more appealing. I don't like the Bayverse designs like the twins or the spindly chicken-legged designs, I just like cohesive & streamlined designs that just have a certain flow that some Bayverse characters, G1, BW, TFA, TFP, & etc etc designs have. You know what I mean?
@@fennekin1750 Totally. The designs could have been cool with new heads and less fapping hands. And to add to my original comment, if you have to even have a debate on whether or not the characters are racist there lies a bigger problem at hand, as well written or even just passably written versions of the characters would not even make you ask the question.
@@ElaineClush & would it be so bad if the Twins were redesigned slightly IF they got SS figures? & agree, I think, no I believe that the twins should've been written better, & looked better & more appealing, cuz as they are, they don't exactly help their case IF they were offensive.
Sometimes I resent the twins for being notoriously annoying but other times they are so blatantly insufferable that I kind of like them as a form of irony of what autobots were meant to behave. Also they say some of the out-of-there shit which is startling, but I can’t help to chuckle a bit. (bayverse terminator prime and the autobots in AOE and TLK are prime (no puns) examples contrasting the supposed heroism of autobots)
Huh, the funny thing to me is that I didn't know they were stereotypes, just comedy relief. I never minded 'em (no one I know did) I only knew people had a problem with 'em when I went lookin' for it, and it came as quite a shock! I didn't expect it! I didn't even know they were supposed to be black.
Those AI voices were pretty cool. I don’t know if they’re completely accurate but I couldn’t recognize that they weren’t real people. How did you get those voices. Was there a program you downloaded?
Ok so I'm not black and I never really thought of the twins as racist, just as comic relief characters that were too goofy to work in a movie like this. But like I said before I'm not black so if anyone really thinks that skids and mudflap are racist depictions of black people that's fine there is evidence to support it. I'm still a little conflicted to this day about the twins but in my opinion their jar jar x2.
There really isn't evidence to support it though, I'm black and always found the twins funny as a kid and still do to this day. However it too shocked me too when I found out they weren't made to be stereotypes but more so a comedic duo that were mocking wannabe gangsters which is something the voice actors (one of which being black) were working on together at the time as a comedic sketch so both of them were surprised when people took the humor which was not made to be racist but make fun of fake gangsters as racist stereotypes. This is just another example of a good idea (a weird one at that) but executed improperly in a Michael bay TF film.
I honestly loved the twins in ROTF and never found them racist or as racial stereotypes. I also didn’t know they had a controversy, also love the video dude! 💚🧡
I used to live in St. Helens in the UK until 2012 and I remember actually seeing a black Chevy Spark with green stripes on the road twice in either late 2011 or early 2012. I also remember Optibotinus blocking me after I left a comment on one of his videos around that time telling him I'd seen it because he thought I made it up.
I didn't even think about this when I was young watching the movie. I thought they were just corny characters that Bay wanted to use to lighten the mood, and add a comedic element, and it worked. They were funny. I can see why people think that, but at the same tine, Transformers movies attract young ages as the majority audience. You really rhink the 13 year old kids would care? At least I didnt, because I was 13 at the time. Middle School.
Why is it so far fetched that autobots landed in a certain area and developed accents/personalities based on where they crashed on earth, as well as using the internet. We’ve seen it twice since with hot rod and wheeljack, yet no body was kicking up a fuss about that?
As annoying and unfunny as the twins are to me, i really liked the idea of them being combiners for an ice cream truck vehicle mode. Decepticons are surprisingly more common to work as a team (devastator being an accumulation of several combiners, soundwave/barricade/blackout having their own partners in ravage, that scorpion mf and laserbeak. Even Starscream works effecfively alongside megatron without a thought of betraying him). It just had so much character and made them stand out from the rest of the cast who mainly had loud, colorful vehicle modes and were often seen in combat fighting their own battles seperately from each other if they werent fighting amongst themselves to begin with. Then they became two seperate cars and they lost that. Figured the bickering wouldve been better and funnier if they were having to work together as combiners for the rest of the movie and onward but oh well.
Now I *really* want to see DoTMs directors cut featuring the original ending and scenes featuring Skidds and Muddflap to the two comedic Autobots finally get their justice and the people will learn they’re not racist stereotypes!
I 100% agree they are NOT racist NOR offensive. I enjoyed them because they were so different than everyone else, they were unique, funny, wacky, and strange. I want them back and I really want them to make Studio Series figures of them and would get them instantly if they did.
Man! I can't wait for their Studio Seri- 10 years later: I wonder when their studio series are gonna come ou- 50 years later: WHEN IS THE STUDIO SERIES COMING OUT (Ik, ik, they aren't getting studio series figures lmao)
I just wish the twins would be featured more in the 3rd movie and maybe even survive until the 4th movie and they could've change their personality and they could've became more mature.
I honestly don’t think they were racist at all. I never had an opinion for them, but I never once thought “Damn, these guys are so racist!” I think it’s just a case of people being too sensitive.
I think the most interesting thing about this controversy is that it kind of exposes the sore spot Bay has for criticisms beyond his cinematography. The entire bounty story leading up to the actual bounty posting is just chock-full of backpedals and metaphorical "NUH UH"s to the point where it felt less like a director and someone in close communication with him talking about the editing process of his film and more any other pointless forum argument between an admin, his mod, and the community about something they were invested in. And the funniest part to me is that DotM's final cut DOES have Skids and Mudflap in there, in the same exact shot from the trailer that let people know they were in there to start with. He didn't even bother removing it. He just refused to honor the bounty posted, presumably because he specified "perform", and would argue that just driving and parking isn't a performance. That and, well, who the hell is gonna care at this point? And isn't that kind of a sad statement all it's own? That a director doesn't care about a film that he directed just because he couldn't handle the idea that his creative vision may have had a blind-spot? I think the biggest takeway here should be, regarding the argument about their stereotyping, should be this: Stereotypes do not become particularly egregious when only one or two things are used. The reason Skids and Mudflap stood out is because they practically heaped on seemingly EVERYTHING in an effort to try and communicate a character to avoid spending time on characterizing them. The big lips and ears, the speech pattern, the illiteracy, the aggression... It doesn't paint a flattering picture on its own, but everything is magnified when you mash it all together on ONE character, let alone a two-man comic relief act. They were never intended to be malicious. They were intended to be lazy.
About the "can't read" part, honestly why would robots like them need to read? Bumblebee or heck, even Optimus probably can't read either (unless I missed something) though of course some obviously can read
![BIG MOMMY NEMESIS [Transformers Legacy Evolution Review]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PQEfYXBMqeU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Really wish their death scene was kept in the film. Would've been a good, heroic end for the twins and probably would've made Sentinel even more menacing by adding two more bots to his kill count. That, or just don't have them in the films and have Arcee and Jolt fill their part in ROTF. Arcee can be more the "straight man" of the trio of her, Bee and Jolt, while Jolt can be more of a boisterous comic relief / action hero, like Mirage in Rise of the Beasts. And then, maybe have Jolt die in DOTM after we've really familiarised ourselves with him, as that'll add further raise the stakes and drama. Maybe Sentinel kills him after Ironhide like with the twins, or he helps the humans reach the skyscraper in Chicago and Shockwave kills him, just to give him *_SOMETHING_* to do.
Agreed they lived as nuisance but died as heroes and brothers.
@@Cinamen_Roll
*_WE IN PARTICULAR_* never said that. Why’re you blaming *_US_* for things other people said?
@@awesomeproductions7755 i think he is talking about people who made the article
But these characters were written out of the film or cut from the film
I agree
Skids: “You scared?
Mudflap: “Scared? Scared of your ugly face!!”
Skids: “IM UGLY?? WE’RE TWINS YOU STUPID GENIUS” BRO 😭😭
stupid genius, that's just the cherry on top
they are iconic
I never thought the twins were racial stereotypes, I just thought they were annoying.
the whole world agree that statement.
They’re definitely stereotypes. Low intelligence, low education (no reading), slang and their speech patterns. In fighting constantly. I will admit that non black people can embody these stereotypes as well. However, when they do, they get accused of acting black. “Wiggers”, if you will.
They were minstrels
@@tyronleung5276 indeed
I’m sure you thought MLK was loved, and most Americans agreed with him even after his passing 🙄😬.
I swear NO one reads, no one does research.
As a kid back then I never really saw them as like black stereotype, I always thought they were more like hillbilly rednecks than the hood type gangsta
Same bro they got the vibe of a southern white hillbilly family
That's still how I see them
@@gavinecchi very true
I’m genuinely curious, what about them screams hillbilly redneck? I’m not being an ass, all the people involved have said wannabe gangsters or rappers.
Same lol. Which hillbillies wouldn't get offended by that they would love that.
All they needed was one scene where the two of them drop their personas and talk to each other in cybertronian, questioning why people are so off put and annoyed by them when they thought humans loved rap culture and stuff and expressing how they don't really know what to do after spending so much time learning about it (too much time).
Jazz did this type of thing the right way.
Jazz is a great example. He’s a normal cybertronian apart from his speech.
And this was back in 2009
It was a racist stereotype lol
A great way to get around it, these robots dont really get race relations and its meaning to humans
Ayo I luv Jazz to bad He die at first movie hes cool guy
The "we don't really do much reading" scene never came off as racist to me, because it just fits their characters. They aren't the brightest at this point in their story, and a line like that makes sense😂
Fr.
Is it not because it was an ancient prime language?
@@TrueGamer22887nope, literally no other transformer says they cant read
You say that as if writing a character as a racist stereotype has to contradict the plot
If they needed a new transformer to drive them because the Asian transformer with small eyes couldnt drive properly that would still fit the character but it doesnt make it not a racist characterisation
@@conradlorgar5508 a major plot point in the movie is literally them finding jet fire because he’s old and could read it
I think Mudflap's death in the Novelization is probably the darkest, even darker than Ratchet's Death
what happened to him
@@exstasia I think he got killed by Sentinel Prime trying to save Bumblebee from his Rust Gun
@@gavinattalahadiyan325wrong he died on age of extinction if you watched that movie
So how did he die?
Spark pulled out after losing his legs
The best part of this video was when Mudflap said, "IT'S REVENGIN' TIME!" and got revenged all over
was just about to comment this
he REALLY said it!
he revenged all over devastator's face
dead meme
@@ManBehindTheSlaughter678 AnticomedyTron! The most lame decepticon
I honestly liked Skids and Mudflap they were pretty funny
Really skids 2:30
I liked them as a kid, and would likely still like them now probably. I also love their designs.
@@anotherrandomguy8871 I do too
For me they act like Brothers fighting one another
fr
It’s weird as the voice acter of mudflap didn’t think they where racial stereotypes and just thought they where funny
I hate to be that dude but thanks for the comments! (edit)
I'm black and i thought it was just funny
I'm black, and I loved them when I was a kid, just two funny transformers.
Finding out what people thought made them a rude stereotype doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, if they were they'd have fat ass lips and be singing*cough Disney cough cough*
I'm black and I was offended
@@BKSExperience do you mind if I ask what offended you about these characters? They resemble SpongeBob more to me than a racist stereotype and I'm sorry transformers of all things made you feel that way as that's the opposite it strives for
I always saw the twins as being younger siblings that would do the typical sibling bickering and fighting, it was hilarious to me. Especially when you take into consideration that the survival of earth depended on these badass autobots meanwhile you have two goofballs just trying to survive for themselves. Being an older brother, i related to the fighting between the two and how worried skids was when mudflap was eaten by devastator.
I would have loved to see the twins in the future movies, they were my personal favorite autobots.
When I was young and oblivious to how controversial they were I used to love the twins. They were hilarious even if they added absolutely nothing to the plot.
Sidepoint, how can Cybertronians even be "twins"?
To them, twins basically mean cybertronians who look and built the same
Cybercest
Hmmm, good question
Maybe they was built together
Probably conjoined twins at first
Split sparks maybe? Theoretically, both having one half of a cybertronian spark, at least is what I think
I always assumed that the twins couldn't read because they were young and they didn't learn enough abt their own culture because if the war.
Totally make sense cuz they pick what only available of it if not by war there many options to choose what they actually really are.
It really sucks that the twins were cut from dark of the moon because they were one of my favourite transformers but my all time favourite is bumblebee
Looking back at the twins with a more matured perspective, opposed to when I first watched the movie as a kid. I can say that I definitely see them as a comic relief, wannabe gangster type. In a similar fashion to how Jazz acted in the first movie.
I think all of this could have been solved by just making their CGI model's faces not look like *that*. Like just give them more alien looking faces like all the other transformers. Their voice acting didn't have to change as much but looking like that combined with the 'wannabe gangster' voice performance was not a good mix.
I believe that those who are seeing this "face" are the real racists.
Good point. Nobody called Jazz racist and his first line was “what’s cracking lil bitches”. Why? Bc he didn’t do anything else that was stereotypical.
@@dwilliams380 except die first
For real-like imagine they had faces like the red bumblebee clone from TF4 - would have worked sooooo more
They're faces are alien, they look nothing like human more like gremlins
I really cried when he said “it’s revenging time” 😭😭
And revenged all over the place?
@@BlooMonkiManhe revenged on me really hard
My favourite part of Revenge of the Fallen is when the Fallen said “It’s Revenging Time” and then did absolutely nothing in the movie
“It’s skidding time”
“It’s mudflapping time”
Best voice lines ever.
My favourite scene was when the Fallen said "This is the revenge of the- [breaks his back] I've fallen, and I can't get up"
Dang Skid and Mudflap was so Controversial that they had a Bounty on their head xD!!
*their heads
I hope that we will one day get Studio Series figures of these guys without the racist implications ruining it for everyone.
then again, they're a topic so sensitive even the designers will block you online if you ask them about it
God dammit, even the abbreviation is cursed. I did like them as a kid.
they arent racist though , and u wont get a studio series without the gold tooth , and other shit , if u dont like black people just fuckin say it , your the racist one , not skids and mudflap
@@mikhaelgribkov4117Why? Did you get WWII flasbacks?
@@BlooMonkiMan yes.
Personally, I never found the Twins offensive or annoying. I honestly always saw them as two young privates who are always fighting or bickering, which is something I tend to see in movies about the military. At least the ones I have seen. On the other hand, I do understand why some people may find them offensive or annoying, especially since we don’t get a chance to know what really makes Skids and Mudflap tick, something that's always been a problem with Micheal Bay's Transformers movies. Also, good work on this video, Theorymus. I now have a better understanding of why the Twins are some of the most controversial characters in Transformers.
On a side note: if anyone is wondering if I include the Twins in my rewrite of the Transformers movies, yes I do include them in both Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, and Transformers: Dark of the Moon. However, I decided to write them as two young Autobots who tend to bicker or fight each other. There's even a scene in ROTF where Bumblebee stops the two from fighting and punishes them, as their fighting almost gets his best friend and her brother killed. At the same time, though, we get enough time to understand what kind of characters Skids and Mudflap are supposed to be, something I’ve tried to fix for both the Autobots and Decepticons in my rewrites.
It’s called woke culture is what Disney is doing today
@@kevingame3198Oh, shut up! Woke is just a buzzword for everything conservatives don’t like.
Where can I find them? I’m interested!
@@johncaulfield8935 Unfortunately, I only have a TH-cam account, not a channel, and they’re not available to the TH-cam community right now as they’re still a work in progress. But hopefully someday in the future, if I do decide to get a channel of my own, I will definitely post the final scripts for the rewrites and hopefully turn them into a stop motion series.
It wouldnt have been viewed as a stereotype, if people didnt compare it to the stereotype, the twins where done wrong
I found the twins hilarious but yeah, they don't contribute much other than being a comedy duo
You absolutely right. Sometime they over analysis it despite reality said it just what it it is no more or no less.
They single handedly almost beat devastator so I disagree thats a big deal
I thought the novel was lighter in tone like the comic but shooting ironhide and his head dissolving while he's still aware? Mudflap shot in his mouth? That is some horrifying stuff
The novel is dark... like a darker dark of the moon
I really loved the twins I hope we see them again
The Bayverse is over, so it's not happening.
@@croakinc3670 I know but they could still bring them back in a new way
@@calebprescott440 Unfortunately hasbro hates them soo I don't think it's gonna happen sadly
@@croakinc3670 well I hope they return in the reboot series and I can see the writers using bayverse ideas but in a good way
@@calebprescott440definitely not. Skids is a very different character in every other continuity (a fantastic and interesting character at that) and if they do return, they'll be far more faithful and interesting.
Y'know as Black kid at the age of 5 I actually genuinely enjoyed them in the Revenge of the Fallen
I still love the twins, being a twin myself I loved them as they were the opposite of me and my twin, where as he and I get along and argue a little, SKids and Mudflap not only argue quite a bit, but the also physically fight each other, yet we can see they still care about and love each other despite this. And being lergly a first it is kind of funny to me to see 2 Cybertronians acting like moronic iliterate gangsters, even saying "Pop a cap in his ass." Sure thy may come off as a little racist, but so might Jazz in G1to some people. THe whole iliterate gangster despite being heavily stereotyped with blacks is not something tied just to blacks, as anyone whether black or white who ends up in "thug culture" often is iliterate or a violant moron as this lifestyle seemed easier for them rather then actually gettign an education and being a productive part of society.
I agree with what you said💯💯💯💯
I saw Rotf as a kid, and the Twins were my favourite new characters, because they just did random funny stuff. I saw them as two young bots on their first mission trying to be tough, and they had kinda younger/older sibling dynamic with Bumblebee.
Long story short, despite their implied "controversy", Skids and Mudflap where robbed horribly. ( And Sentinal was always a traitorous p.o.s.) On a personal level, The DOTM Deluxe Mudflap is one of my dearest parts of my collection.
Let's actually start a huge petition for them to make official SS Twins. Like, actually. Get back to me on that 😉
Never thought Skids and Mudflap was a stereo type, just thought they was kinda dumb twins lol I like them honestly.
The main reason I loved transformers 2 was because of the twins, being part african american and an identical twin myself these characters fit perfectly with me.
When i first got the movie on dvd i actually didn't know Skids and Wheelie were voiced the Same person i didn't know Barricade and Ironhide both were voiced by Jess Harnell
Btw ARE YOU USERNAME: LADIESMAN217?!
"The lead designer at Hasbro is blocking people on Instagram who ask if the twins will get Studio Series toys"
to me that is a rather immature move
if the twins aren't gonna get studio series toys, just say it outright and don't block people who ask
What’s funny is that they did a figure recently from Kissplayers 😬
If you know, you know
@@g0694
The autotrooper from Kiss players⁉️
@@metal_fusion yes
the reason behind us not having new toys from them from the Studio Series is because of the ESG agenda that Hasbro has to fulfill. Any slip-up or misinterpreted speech by one of your employees or partners will not go down well with shareholders. That's why they avoid even talking about it.
In my opinion this whole controversy was blown out of proportion
Just like everything today
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GODShut up
I agree.
Definitely. Some people are just too sensitive to be online nowadays.
That one screenwriter sounded like he was just reading a script that he didn't agree with.
Skids and Mudflap should have stayed all through the Bayverse, and not be killed in DOTM like they were supposed to be.
People in companies blocking people who ask questions should be fired immediately. That's not a good look for the company they are representing.
People on the internet are such kids sometimes.
First they took away a better ending from RotF, then completely misinterpreted twins, took away the best ending to a trilogy and then twins' tragic deaths, which would have contributed to their character development?
These points would have made these movies a lot better, but people decided otherwise...
*...then whined why these movies turned out not so great afterwards.*
Asa kid, I liked them, as an adult, I realized their flaws.
As someone who’s not American, who doesn’t not care about Western identity politics, and who can take a “JOKE”, Skids and Mudflaps are one of the most interesting new characters in ROTF and are amusing AF.
i love your videos
Skids and Mudflap deleted scene in ROTB?! 😮
@@nova_zar 😂😂😂
I found the twins annoying, but racist? No they were just goofy. It comedy folks not serious stuff
honestly they showed that not all Autobots were heroic nearly super powered muscular bodied robots like Optimus, sideswipe, bee, I really loved them and their personalities made them own every scene they were in
Wow, i didn't know about this.
This whole conroversy really surprised me as a hungarian.
I wonder if maybe Bay was contractually obligated or something to film the Chevy Sparks regardless if the characters made it to the movie, given how Bay was quick to say "No Twins in TF3" just the day after he filmed a scene with them and still went on to do scenes with the Twins after he said they weren't in it
It's very possible since general motors uses these films to gather hype around their vehicles. Such as the Mudflap inspired spark launched in South Korea
I honestly don’t mind their designs but I do wish they got more development so they wouldn’t come off as racist.
I can’t believe hasbro put a kissplayers reference in legacy before giving us the twins in studio series
I love how the AI voice knew exactly how to say the words. What tone, what personality, etc.
23:54 I love when Mudflap says "it's revengin' time" and revengin all over Sentinel Prime, Truly one of comic all the time....
I don't fucking care about people's opinions on them their fucking funny asf and their my favorite characters of all of bayverse I hate that they were cut from DOTM
Exactly the same as me I don't cair their my most favourite
Rare fact: Faith No More singer Mike Patton Was originally cast as the voice of both robots, but left the project early in development.
As a kid I just thought their face design was really overly caricature looking and exaggerated, honestly kind of ugly to look at even if I liked their action scenes so Im on the fence for this being racist or not, all I know is Tom Kenny voiced Skids.
I feel like if they were actually in Dotm, and if they included the death scenes, they wouldn’t be hated at all because the audience would know they have grown level of maturity since the 2nd film. We already saw how badass they were when fighting Devastator so I think they deserved to be in the final film.
Fun fact Tom Kenny also voiced starscream In transformers animated
He was glorious as Starscream.
Good morning Theory. This was my introduction to skids and mudflap.
Good morning my dude!
Good afternoon to the both of you!
If skids and mudflap was in the no prisoners only trophies (DOTM) scene that'll be a mad trio Bumblebee Skids and Mudflap back to back against soundwave barricade and other decepticons
I never know skids and mudflap are like African American.
Will we get a studio series version of them?
No because if you ask the people at Hasbro you'll get blocked
@@jonahlink987Yeah, even if you think Skids and Mudflap aren’t bad (they are imo), Hasbro’s answer is still no
@@cideofsoos I don't remember asking your opinion?
The only problem with that is not every black person is African American lol
These Are My 2 Fav Characters I Dont Find Them Bad At All!
Slight Spoiler for Rise of the beast warning
Reminds me of Wheeljack saying "Thats a bit racist Hermano"
That wasn't wheeljack that was pablo
People really need to learn that just because something may seem to resemblance racial stereotypes doesn't mean it is drawn from or represents said stereotypes.
Essentially this aligns with everything we’ve heard about the production of rotf. It seems like everyone in production on that movie we’re operating in diffrent rooms. Also really didn’t help that the movie was written during the writers strike in 07. I get what you mean about them not being inherently offensive but I’d argue it’s still in bad taste.
I feel bad for Tom Kenny. He had to voice Skids and probably felt as horrified as everyone else was, especially since he was the voice of SpongeBob SquarePants.
Their deaths in the DOTM sound legitimately sad, man. 😥
As a kid I didn't mind and was completely ignorant about the controversy I did thought the twins were trying to be wannabe gangsters but I imagine them as hillbillies.
As I got older I do see why people would think they're racial steryotypes and wouldn't blame them. I heavy disliked them not because of the steryotypes but because they looked weird (in the face) and God awful annoying.
I probably wouldn't mind seeing their death's in the film because the way how the novel describes it shows how tense and shocking it was especially when the autobots experienced fight or flight mode and Mudflap's fury was insane. I believe if they used that scene it probably would've made the twins a little bit better.
Tom Kenny was also the Animated Starscream
Take Mudflap, Give him a Campervan Alt mode, Give him big Glasses, give him A Spanish Accent, Name him a name of a Character from the opening of Bumblebee BOOM! RISE OF THE BEASTS WHEELJACK!!!!!!
My takeaway from all this is, unintentional racism is still racism, however it would be inappropriate to take the approach you take to fix malicious racism to fix it. I don’t think people would complain if the characters came back in DOTM with a more refined version of the personality and humor. They would benefit from an actually written script, as they said, they were hardly written in ROTF due to the strike. It’s easier to cross a line when the words aren’t in front of you to look at. But, since they were cut after ROTF, we the audience only have their more controversial outing to base opinions off of.
I wish they were redesigned to look more appealing. I don't like the Bayverse designs like the twins or the spindly chicken-legged designs, I just like cohesive & streamlined designs that just have a certain flow that some Bayverse characters, G1, BW, TFA, TFP, & etc etc designs have. You know what I mean?
@@fennekin1750 Totally. The designs could have been cool with new heads and less fapping hands. And to add to my original comment, if you have to even have a debate on whether or not the characters are racist there lies a bigger problem at hand, as well written or even just passably written versions of the characters would not even make you ask the question.
racism is just plain silly. Dave Chapelle is the embodiment of it
Big talk for someone who has "end my suffering" as a Is channel description, what if you Unintentionally offense someone?
@@ElaineClush & would it be so bad if the Twins were redesigned slightly IF they got SS figures? & agree, I think, no I believe that the twins should've been written better, & looked better & more appealing, cuz as they are, they don't exactly help their case IF they were offensive.
As a black male I do not care about wtf these people talking about. Those 2 were hilarious to me in Transformers ROTF
Nelson calling the DotM Twins "different characters" just sounds such a brainless excuse!
And ransack got a revenge of the fallen toy, which I would love to have.
Sometimes I resent the twins for being notoriously annoying but other times they are so blatantly insufferable that I kind of like them as a form of irony of what autobots were meant to behave. Also they say some of the out-of-there shit which is startling, but I can’t help to chuckle a bit.
(bayverse terminator prime and the autobots in AOE and TLK are prime (no puns) examples contrasting the supposed heroism of autobots)
Nice video as always Theorymus, I miss the twins.
Damn both adaptations of their deaths kind of hits much like Ironhide’s death to which we him knew for the 1st 3 movies
It’s been so long your vid’s are the best your vid’s takes so long to make but are worth it
Thanks my dude!
Dang the novel made them cool, sucks we didn’t get to see that in live action
Huh, the funny thing to me is that I didn't know they were stereotypes, just comedy relief.
I never minded 'em (no one I know did) I only knew people had a problem with 'em when I went lookin' for it, and it came as quite a shock!
I didn't expect it!
I didn't even know they were supposed to be black.
Those AI voices were pretty cool. I don’t know if they’re completely accurate but I couldn’t recognize that they weren’t real people. How did you get those voices. Was there a program you downloaded?
There is a website called 11labs. They have a lot of voices that you can use, It's pretty scary how life like they sound
Ok so I'm not black and I never really thought of the twins as racist, just as comic relief characters that were too goofy to work in a movie like this. But like I said before I'm not black so if anyone really thinks that skids and mudflap are racist depictions of black people that's fine there is evidence to support it. I'm still a little conflicted to this day about the twins but in my opinion their jar jar x2.
There really isn't evidence to support it though, I'm black and always found the twins funny as a kid and still do to this day. However it too shocked me too when I found out they weren't made to be stereotypes but more so a comedic duo that were mocking wannabe gangsters which is something the voice actors (one of which being black) were working on together at the time as a comedic sketch so both of them were surprised when people took the humor which was not made to be racist but make fun of fake gangsters as racist stereotypes.
This is just another example of a good idea (a weird one at that) but executed improperly in a Michael bay TF film.
Even I find jar jar blinks more tolerable than the Twins even if they do have one memorable moment where they’re fighting off against Devastator
Ngl as a kid I thought they were based on latin people not african Americans lmao. But I was a young kid in Europe lol
I honestly loved the twins in ROTF and never found them racist or as racial stereotypes.
I also didn’t know they had a controversy, also love the video dude! 💚🧡
i really just want a WIIS video about bonecrusher or shockwave.
I would've loved to see that Ransack scene. I'm imagining Jetfire stomping and spitting on him and it sounds hilarious.
Your channel is pure quality nice work
I used to live in St. Helens in the UK until 2012 and I remember actually seeing a black Chevy Spark with green stripes on the road twice in either late 2011 or early 2012. I also remember Optibotinus blocking me after I left a comment on one of his videos around that time telling him I'd seen it because he thought I made it up.
I didn't even think about this when I was young watching the movie. I thought they were just corny characters that Bay wanted to use to lighten the mood, and add a comedic element, and it worked. They were funny. I can see why people think that, but at the same tine, Transformers movies attract young ages as the majority audience. You really rhink the 13 year old kids would care? At least I didnt, because I was 13 at the time. Middle School.
I don’t love the twins but they should be there at last
Why is it so far fetched that autobots landed in a certain area and developed accents/personalities based on where they crashed on earth, as well as using the internet. We’ve seen it twice since with hot rod and wheeljack, yet no body was kicking up a fuss about that?
As annoying and unfunny as the twins are to me, i really liked the idea of them being combiners for an ice cream truck vehicle mode. Decepticons are surprisingly more common to work as a team (devastator being an accumulation of several combiners, soundwave/barricade/blackout having their own partners in ravage, that scorpion mf and laserbeak. Even Starscream works effecfively alongside megatron without a thought of betraying him). It just had so much character and made them stand out from the rest of the cast who mainly had loud, colorful vehicle modes and were often seen in combat fighting their own battles seperately from each other if they werent fighting amongst themselves to begin with. Then they became two seperate cars and they lost that. Figured the bickering wouldve been better and funnier if they were having to work together as combiners for the rest of the movie and onward but oh well.
I really sad the twins got cut bc they were little fun characters (in my opinion), fire vid Jason and these AI voices are crazy asl🤯‼️
Now I *really* want to see DoTMs directors cut featuring the original ending and scenes featuring Skidds and Muddflap to the two comedic Autobots finally get their justice and the people will learn they’re not racist stereotypes!
Even though I thought the Twins were alright, I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing a Studio Series of the both of them.
People agree that statement.
I 100% agree they are NOT racist NOR offensive. I enjoyed them because they were so different than everyone else, they were unique, funny, wacky, and strange. I want them back and I really want them to make Studio Series figures of them and would get them instantly if they did.
Man! I can't wait for their Studio Seri-
10 years later: I wonder when their studio series are gonna come ou-
50 years later: WHEN IS THE STUDIO SERIES COMING OUT
(Ik, ik, they aren't getting studio series figures lmao)
I love your videos Theorymus, thank you for all the Transformers videos!!❤💚
Anytime 👍
Nice video man. Keep it up!
Thanks!
Man I really want SS figures of them, they have a special place in my heart
Im sorry to tell you but hasbro absolutely doesn't like these too if you ask if they're make a ss of them they will block you
If I’m being real they were the best characters in the movie
I agree with this
Nahhh. Bumblebee , Sideswipe , Sam, Jetfire
@@Intr0verticalSam 😂😂😂 you mean the screaming whining pussy who gets everything handed to him
@@Intr0vertical I mean your not wrong they were good characters but mudflat and skids were just funny
I just wish the twins would be featured more in the 3rd movie and maybe even survive until the 4th movie and they could've change their personality and they could've became more mature.
They were really great characters to me, but what bay did to them is just straight up horrifying.....
Anyways Awesome video!
I loved these two to the point I got worried when I didn't see them at the end😢
how the hell are the twins racist like damn no way people are that soft
I was also surprised to hear cancel culture is older than zoomers
?
@@BlooMonkiMan??
@@BlooMonkiManikr like zoomers are so soft but damn i wasn’t expecting that from boomers😂
@@Ericspil790 More like from the generation right after the Millenials...
I honestly don’t think they were racist at all. I never had an opinion for them, but I never once thought “Damn, these guys are so racist!”
I think it’s just a case of people being too sensitive.
I think the most interesting thing about this controversy is that it kind of exposes the sore spot Bay has for criticisms beyond his cinematography.
The entire bounty story leading up to the actual bounty posting is just chock-full of backpedals and metaphorical "NUH UH"s to the point where it felt less like a director and someone in close communication with him talking about the editing process of his film and more any other pointless forum argument between an admin, his mod, and the community about something they were invested in.
And the funniest part to me is that DotM's final cut DOES have Skids and Mudflap in there, in the same exact shot from the trailer that let people know they were in there to start with. He didn't even bother removing it. He just refused to honor the bounty posted, presumably because he specified "perform", and would argue that just driving and parking isn't a performance. That and, well, who the hell is gonna care at this point?
And isn't that kind of a sad statement all it's own? That a director doesn't care about a film that he directed just because he couldn't handle the idea that his creative vision may have had a blind-spot?
I think the biggest takeway here should be, regarding the argument about their stereotyping, should be this: Stereotypes do not become particularly egregious when only one or two things are used. The reason Skids and Mudflap stood out is because they practically heaped on seemingly EVERYTHING in an effort to try and communicate a character to avoid spending time on characterizing them. The big lips and ears, the speech pattern, the illiteracy, the aggression... It doesn't paint a flattering picture on its own, but everything is magnified when you mash it all together on ONE character, let alone a two-man comic relief act. They were never intended to be malicious. They were intended to be lazy.
Fantastic analysis👍
About the "can't read" part, honestly why would robots like them need to read? Bumblebee or heck, even Optimus probably can't read either (unless I missed something)
though of course some obviously can read
Michael Bay isn't exactly a good person, but the twins are not one of the reasons