Yume Kōjō Doki Doki Panic retrospective: Super Mario before USA | NES Works Gaiden #01
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2016
- By patron request, a follow-up to last week's look at Super Mario Bros. in the form of a look at the sequel to Super Mario Bros., more or less. Yume Kōjō Doki Doki Panic is probably the best-known Famicom Disk System release of all time, and all because its relationship to Super Mario Bros. 2 rendered countless American childhoods a lie...
Special thanks to Joseph Wawzonek for the episode. - เกม
adding a run function to Mario 2 was probably the best improvement they could have made
Man, I was under the impression that Yume Kojo was a long running Fuji TV program with recognizable and popular characters. That it was a one off promotional thing, and they actually chose to fund a full fledged FDS game to advertise it is bonkers. Can you smell that bubble economy money?
It's how we got some really beautiful, stunning anime from the 1980's, like the iconic AKIRA.
You all probably dont give a damn but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I somehow lost my login password. I would love any tricks you can give me
@Julius Jaxxon Instablaster =)
@Roger Jesus Thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Roger Jesus It worked and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my account :D
10:09 Mama? MAMA LUIGI!?
I feel that the US version of Super Mario Bros. 2 is indeed a legit Mario game. It was designed by the same people with Mario in mind, after all. It fits.
It even had several Mario items, like the Pow block and starman.
Exactly. It began as a mario game, developed by the same team, got turned into Doki Doki Panic, then got turned back into a mario game for the Western release. It's a mario game through and through and some of the elements it introduced remain in mario games to this day with Mario Oddysey. So it's annoying when people go "haha did you know its not a real Mario game". Nah, they can f*** off. It's a real Mario game. That's just a fact.
SMB2 looks better then Doki Doki Panic
Small correction: Lina is actually Imajin's _girlfriend_, not his sister. It was stated in Yume Kōjō (the Japanese convention in 1987 that this game kinda promoted).
So Doki Doki Panic is basically just the worst "come home and meet my parents" experience ever?
Pft-HA HA HA HA! Maybe it is!
By the way, do you think this video would've been more informative if it went into more detail about the real-life convention that sparked this game - Yume Kōjō '87? Imajin was its mascot.
@@JeremyParish I wouldn't say the "worst 'come home and meet my parents' experience", since, from my perspective, Imajin's family is a bunch of Happy Arabian Magicians! also, the Blackface is suppose to be a shrunken head.
@@JeremyParish I'd say it's the best
Super Mario Bros. 2 has been, and remains, my favorite of the original trilogy. As much as I adore SMB3, and spent months playing it with friends, SMB2's charm and differing game mechanics really puts it over the top for me. The change from bouncing on enemies to landing on them and picking them up was pretty unique and showed Nintendo wasn't content to rest on their laurels with characters "butt bouncing" their way to victory all of the time. I would love to play through Yume Kojo DDP at some point, just to get the differences, but based on what you're saying here, SMB2, with its tweaks, is likely the superior game. Still, it would be interesting to visit the source material. Great video, very informative.
We got an apple 2c the Christmas the year before. I played video games on it for a year and was just ok with it. Coming up the stairs Christmas morning and hearing the music for super Mario 2s music was absolute gold
Yup, mine to. I will go back and play this game any day!
It's my favourite too. It just felt so fresh and original, whereas Mario 3 kind of felt like a little step backwards.
SMB2 is awesome, Doki, Doki, Panic sucks. The
Play control is horrible, trying to jump from vine to vine in the first world made me hate the game.
Great video as always!
Although I find kinda weird that you didn't comment on how to make Doki Doki Panic in the first place, Nintendo used a prototype developed to be the sequel to SMB 1 (The prototype you mention being made with vertical platforming, picking up things to throw them and such).
It made all the story surrounding SMB2/Doki Doki Panic even more interesting to me when I read about it on the Mario Wiki.
It kinda went full circle: Starting as a Proto Mario -> Being used for Doki Doki Panic -> By random chance ended being a Mario game again.
In any case; I'll always be thankful to Howard Philips for being what caused this "rom hack" to exist.
That is incorrect. The prototype that eventually became DDP had nothing to do with Mario. SMB2J was conceived during the development of VS. Super Mario Bros. (the arcade version of SMB1) when Miyamoto and Tezuka were impressed with how challenging they made the five new levels (replacing the "hard mode" repeats of 1-3, 1-4, 2-2, 2-3,and 2-4 in the console game) for that game, all of which were later reused for SMB2J, and that was half a year before the prototype demo you mentioned was made and Fuji TV approached Nintendo to request them to make DDP.
Hehe...Proto-Mario's Pokemon theories
@@SonicTheJackrabbit It did start out as Mario. The progression went: Vertical scrolling test engine for 2 play Mario game where players throw blocks at each other (this was quickly abandoned) > unnamed platformer with an arabian nights theme > Doki Doki Panic where Nintendo plastered all types of brazilian carnival and dream imagery into it's arabian nights game > SMB2 plastering a Super Mario theme onto Doki Doki Panic.
The Wired article where this rumor originated from does not say anything about it starting out as a Mario game. Read the quote:
_"The prototype, worked up by SRD, a company that programmed many of Nintendo's early games, was intended to show how a _*_Mario-style_*_ game might work if the players climbed up platforms vertically instead of walking horizontally, said Tanabe."_
Note how they say "Mario-style", meaning that the demo was inspired by Mario's gameplay but never had anything to do with the Mario IP. In any case, this could never be SMB2 originally seeing as SMB2J was in development since Vs. SMB's conception and was released only two months after Kenske Tanabe joined Nintendo in 1986.
@@SonicTheJackrabbit It came from a video taped interview with Kensuke Tanabe. I can't currently find it, I'll keep looking.
Tuesdays are firmly my favourite day of the week thanks to these videos. Thanks Jeremy.
3:34 That's one bastard of a mushroom.
I can't seem to find the source for it, but I recall reading a long time ago that Doki Doki Panic started out as a Mario Bros. sequel prototype (focus on co-op and verticality) , but was suspended. So, Doki Doki Panic was based on a Mario prototype, which explains the high quality effort from Nintendo considering this was based on a license. It also explains the starmen, similar sound effects (and music from Koji Kondo) and the POW block. If that really is true, then Doki Doki Panic should probably be considered the ROM-hack, and the "Super Mario USA" version the true vision of the game.
You remembered correctly.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._2#Development
@@Cyxodus Here's what I think really happened. Nintendo probably decided to make a new sequel after people rejected the Lost Levels, resulting in new enemy types and concepts. However, while they were working on it, Fuji TV asked Nintendo to create mascots for them, bringing us Imajin, his young siblings Piki and Poki, their pet Monkey Rusa, Imajin's girlfriend Lina, and his parents. They were created specifically for Yume Kojo and nothing else, but Nintendo were given permission to make a game with them; in fact, some of the promotional material had Mario and Peach appear alongside Imajin and Lina. With permission to make a game with the Arabian Family, this resulted in finishing up their prototype as best as it can, one of the most notable setbacks is a lack of a run button. After presenting the prototype, and only selling it for a limited time only, Nintendo then finished up the game, reused sprites from SMB3, and presented it to America as Super Mario Bros. 2... we in America wouldn't get Lost Levels until 1993, where both SMB2s were presented. The rest is history.
That's extremely interesting, and exactly what I was looking for. It's one of my favorites.
Yeah, the idea to revert Doki Doki Panic back to a proper Mario game was an idea proposed by the Japanese side of Nintendo whenever they caught wind that NoA wasnt wanting to localize the Japanese Mario 2/Lost Levels.
This channel bugs the hell out of me with all of this "bootleg" talk about Super Mario USA, especially due to the interesting and ironic fact that popular perception of *Lost Levels* in Japan is that of not being a legitimate standalone sequel in and of itself, and more so being a DLC (Super Luigi U is based on Lost Levels, and both Japanese fans and Nintendo themselves essentially view Lost Levels as simply Luigi U style dlc for the original), with Mario 3 being considered the "true" sequel to the original game in Japan, World being the third game, and Mario USA simply being regarded as the fourth game in the original quintet as opposed to it being the second outside of Japan (due to release dates).
Feels vaguely disrespectful to the game whilst also ignoring a crucial facet of its development where it was always intended to be Mario 2.
@@robbiewalker2831 close. Doki Doki Panic was in development before Lost Levels, Lost Levels was just finished more quickly as a stopgap. NoA rejecting Lost Levels in the west had no bearing on the development of Doki Doki Panic; it was always meant to be a Mario sequel, and it was Mario 3 as to why it was sort of abandoned to the Yume Kojo license so easily.
The Japanese side of Nintendo simply suggested to NoA they all tweak the game back to its original intention to be a Mario sequel when the "what do we do for a sequel" panic happened the following year after Doki Doki's release, in 1988.
Thanks so much for all your in-depth videos!
Yours is quickly becoming one of my favorite video game channels. Killer content and great writing and narration. Love all the puns too!
Despite what some say, as someone who grew up with this game, it will always be SMB2 to me.
Adding jump physics to the game made for some interesting exploits. I believe it's in world 4 that you're able to clear the double tower area with a running jump using either Peach or Luigi, thus skipping the entire stage. Although, you probably don't want to do that, because then you have to face Fry Guy with only two life hearts.
Still, I think speedrunners have gotten a lot of use out of the extra hang-time you get from running jumps.
I've watched a lot of video game related reviews for many many years. You are definitely one of the best. I learn a lot even if I've seen many reviews of the same game from all the reviewers I've watched before.
I thought I knew the entire story, but there's parts of it you've really filled out my information on and I appreciate it
Absolutely stellar! Wonderful job. Nice insights on the licensing issues.
This was a great watch, I found your channel through a shout out by Retrospective Gamer.
Hey dood glad you checked it out ...I love these videos
Wow, I didn't know the decision not to release the Lost Levels outside of Japan was based on factors much more complicated than the usual "it was too hard for American players". Excellent analysis as usual, keep it up!
I mean, I am connecting some dots rather than going strictly by public statements, but I truly don't think "it's too hard" was the only factor at work. It wouldn't have made sense for Nintendo to undercut SMB's sales with its own (acquired taste of a) sequel until the NES had real traction, and by that point the original SMB2 was pretty dated.
One detail that is often not talked about is that Doki Doki Panic actually started off as Super Mario Bros 2 and was dropped before the engine became more advanced. At that point, experimentation was being done to see how fun vertically scrolling games were with both players on the screen at the same time. Miyamotto was not pleased with the results and left the project on hold until it was developed further for Doki Doki Panic. Interestingly, the game ultimately was reworked into the US release of Super Mario Bros 2.
I'm so glad we got SMB2, it's one of my favorite games.
Nah dorki dorki panic is better
@@Anothy264 I mean when we did, might have never come to the US otherwise
Apparently Doki Doki Panic lacked press-b to dash, which was added to the US SMB2. I don't know if that's true.
That is correct.
@@JeremyParish I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video because it's the biggest difference between how the two games feel and play. The run button + Luigi physics allows you to skip large parts of many levels.
It's worth mentioning that SMB2 music overally feels more polished than DDP. Most of the instruments have been tweaked a bit, while the Player Select and Overworld themes got extended.
As for the FDS sound channels, I think the DDP Game Clear theme is the only track that makes use of them. Oddly enough, many other FDS games also make sparse use of those channels for music (SMB2, Metroid, Zelda).
3:33 Why did the 1-up jump?
To... get to the other side?
Because the developers of Lost Levels hate you, personally.
great video, very interesting!
my personal theory was that doki doki panic was meant to be smb2 all along, at least in some way, given how its vertical scrolling/throwing prototype kensuke tanabe talked about started off with, according to some sources, mario and luigi.
it's also worth noting that, as we've seen with donkey kong and donkey kong jr (and mario bros / super mario bros), and we'll see with the legend of zelda and zelda II, miyamoto's r&d4 started off not really doing direct sequels in terms of gameplay. lost levels is weird in context because it's the polar opposite to that
surely it started life with the intent for it to become the true sequel? but the fuji tv deal happened, and to make a full-fledged game in time for the short festival - maybe they could have done another all night nippon, but my guess is that they chose not to, and turned super mario bros 2 into doki doki panic instead.
even then the game seems a bit rushed, with visual elements not being up to par, most of which was addressed for smb2, and some gameplay ones like running. it's almost like doki doki panic was a publicly released prototype for super mario bros 2
in the meantime to satisfy japanese players wanting more mario, they took some harder stages they made for vs smb and put them into lost levels instead
it's the only way things make sense to me. mario elements are pretty suspiciously common in doki doki panic compared to even any other miyamoto game, it started life as a mario game and ended as a mario game when it didn't really have to be if smb3 were renamed smb2 instead, and elements of it live on in the newer mario games. it fits as the more likely sequel given r&d4's philosophy about sequels at the time, and has more effort put into it befitting that of the sequel to one of nintendo's greatest titles then and even now.
Fun fact Wart is referred to by his original name when he had a cameo in Link's Awakening.
Does anybody know why the 1-Up mushroom at 3:33 jumped over the gap?
The one in world 8-2 will simply fall through if you break the block directly in front of it.
just a duck man I don’t know why however I have done that as a kid. I guess if you hit the brick in front a fraction of a second too late, the mushroom moves just enough to connect to that particular frame. The game registers that as a bounce, and the mushroom jumps over the gap.
Tl:dr the block next to it was hit too late
Thank you for taking 5 minutes out of your day to make this video.
I thought they added the fast-run option to SMB2. I know of a speedrunner who runs Doki, and I thought he said characters run at the same speed whether or not the players holds down the B button.
Or maybe I am way off base.
Are the colors actually brighter on the FDS or is it a difference in the signals you're getting for the captures? The greens seem much brighter on the clips from the FDS.
Change in cables between sessions - my setup keeps changing as I try and lock things down, and I'm still working to get things consistent.
The picture quality is so good in these videos! I wish Virtual Console releases were that sharp and bright.
I convulsed apon hearing the name sigma
Edit: does this make doki doki panic the best licensed game?
"luigi began as mama"
me: MAMA LUIGI!
I know this video is old, but isn't Lina Imagin's girlfriend?
awesome
Is it me or do the Autobombs you can ride on look an awful lot like 80s era TV cameras on wheeled pedestals, which would have fit the theme at least in some designer's subconscious?
I was so surprised when I first learned about the true original Super Mario 2 vs. what we actually got. Even as a kid I didn't pick up on it with the "Lost Levels" included in the Super Mario Allstars cart.
Still my favorite Mario NES game.
Any chance you could do one on ninja gaiden 1, 2, 3 for nes? Also the ninja gaiden trilogy upgrade for snes? ? ?
This is a chronological series. I'll get there in a few years.
@@JeremyParish no worries awesome sir! You are impeccable at your craft! It's a pleasure to have found your channel :-)
Small correction. Masks are used in Venice's carnival not Brasil.
My mistake.
+Jeremy Parish No problem. Fantastic video as usual. Thanks.
Mario: MAMA?! MAMA LUIGI UH HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
Just noticed that the trees and the leaves aren't animated.
I hate the narrative that SMB2 is some kind of red headed step child to the series. If you were a kid in the US in 1988, it was an unquestioned hit
The NES really brought video games back from the brink of death, and Nintendo's decisions at the beginning of it's American lifespan were specifically designed to keep another 1983 Crash from happening again (lockout chip, strict regulations on third parties, censorship of violence, using pixel art on boxes).
That could have been another factor in Mario 2j not being localized. A Mario sequel that was the first game again but fiendishly hard would have resulted in a lot of unhappy kids and unsold/returned stock, which could've easily set back Nintendo's efforts to stave off another Crash.
I don't care if the North American version of Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't the "real" Super Mario Bros. 2. Super Mario Bros. 2 USA was a better looking, more creative, and less frustrating game than the Japanese version. Despite its reputation as the odd one out of the Super Mario Bros. series, Super Mario Bros. 2 USA introduced elements that would appear in later Mario games. It was the first game to depict Luigi as taller than Mario instead of being just a palette swap. It was the first game to have Toad and Princess Peach as playable characters. Some enemies from Super Mario Bros. 2 USA, such as Birdo, Shy Guys, Pokeys, Bob-ombs, and Ninjis, became recurring characters. Super Mario Bros. 2 USA played differently than the original Super Mario Bros., but that wasn't unusual for Nintendo's sequels at the time. Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong 3, and Zelda II also had different gameplay than previous games in their series.
I cosplay the Mom character from Yūme Kōjō Doki Doki Panic.
I wonder if Nintendo not waiting for SMB3 is due to them knowing that the NES's days were numbered and wanting to have a big blockbuster title to fill its twilight years.
Probably that, and that making a Doki Doki Panic romhack and selling it was basically free money. Why have two games out for a blockbuster franchise (or as close as games got to that back then, anyway) when you can slide in an extra one that's guaranteed to do gangbusters?
I think the original sequel of the Mario brothers is the lost world
One thing people who hype about Super Mario Bros 2, US/EU being a romhack of doki doki and "not true mario game" failed at the video game history class where even in Japan the game has been (re)released as a mario game as many times as it has been in west.
mama? mama luigi?
You, sir, win the internet. Great reference.
So on the whole, what kind of games will Good Nintentions Gaiden follow? Just other NES games post-1985?
It's chronological, yes. With occasional side ventures out into things like this.
@@JeremyParish Are you going to do 1988 NES games?
@@stevendudley5687 Still working on ’87, chief.
me at 4: oh no the flying bird head door is scary! D:
me watching this video today: wtf nintendo you gave nightmares to children everywhere in japan, but thanks for toning it down for america I guess
10:09 "THAT'S MOMMA LUIGI TO YOU, MARIO!"
The Lost Levels is a bad sequel and I'm surprised they made it. It's basically just a ROM hack rather than a sequel. It's a cool game when you look at it that way but it's crazy how little they improved
ok but it still took too long to release it back in the day had to wait until 1990
Yeah! Doki Doki Panic wold be one of my favorite games (Top 10) if Nintendo didn't make this mistake making Super Mario Bros .2 too much like Super Mario Bros .1 with the difficulties increased.
Popeye was really fun!
Mama Luigi! 10:00
Amazing video, but I scrolled through the comments and didn't see anyone correct an error I noticed. The date for the U.S. release of Adventure Island is wrong. It says September 1998; I believe it should read September 1988. The later date confused me so I looked it up. Btw, I should say thank you for including the dates--I am one of those (probably in the minority) who actually cares about dates and uses them to keep things sorted in my mind.
Part of me does wonder, however, if the NES has been released in 1986 instead of 1985, would we have just gotten Mario 1 and lost levels on one cartridge?
weird that they scrapped original SMB2 because it was too hard, yet they imported doki doki and made it harder for USA
Nintendo "passed of a ROM hack of totally unrelated game as the American Super Mario Bros. 2". Great analysis. I agree that releasing the Japanese SMB2 to Western markets would have been detrimental to the series. It looks so basic compared to the later titles it would have been competing with the in the US. The Doki Doki SMB2 was so much fun!
8:00 very weird to see
Characters can't run in the original game, and there's a noticeable lack of Clawgrip. The former attribute, at least, completely changes the experience.
Also, didn't NOA play a role in discouraging the localization of the real _Super Mario Bros. 2_? I swear I've seen or read interviews wherein Howard Lincoln and crew argued that the game was "too difficult" for North American players.
Howard Phillips, I believe.
The differences between Lincoln and Phillips:
Lincoln was Nintendo's lawyer.
Phillips was the Nintendo Fun Club/Nintendo Power Magazine president.
At 10:22 it says Mario at the top of the screen, and not Luigi. Why is that? My version puts Luigi's name up top when I choose a Luigi game.
Mama? Mama Luigi???
Mario Bros. 2 (aka The Lost Levels) wasn't released in the west because a higher up in the American branch thought the game was too hard and not very fun. He knew it would turn off many gamers looking for an easy thrill. Nintendo took Doki Doki and reskinned it because it was fun, colorful, and could be re-imagined as part of the Mario universe even though the story was revealed in the end to be all a dream.
I was just about to say that "I hate people like you who say that Super Mario Bros. 2 isn't a Mario game and that Lost Levels is the only true Mario sequel and that the U.S. 2 is shit but then you completely redeemed yourself at 4:48
Shy Guy all over the Mushroom Kingdom thank you,good sir. (o.o)
if you want to do the uh actually then well I can do it it so here it goes uh actually doki doki panic was originally a prototype for Mario 2 that turned into doki doki panic so Super Mario Bros 2 Mario madness the one we got in the states and Europe is the real Mario 2 and since most of the baddies in the game are made by Nintendo so and are in a Mario game that well you get the point
THAT’S MAMA LUIGI
4:23 it's thinking like that that fucked up Final Fantasy in the west 🤦🏿♂️😆
(ex: Final Fantasy VI (6) becoming Final Fantasy III in the west etc...)
The best is original is from Japan
Wait, are they Persians or Arabs
Gotta say the FDS's extra sound channel mostly sound like shit. It seems to have a very nasty, squelchy noise! Other than it's use in the japanese version of Castlevania 3 it seems like a massive waste of resources!
Castlevania III didn't use the FDS channel, it used a special add-on chip. And if you hate the FDS sound, you've never played Zelda II or Metroid.
Yep, quite right. I just associated "extra sound channel" with both FDS games and Castlevania 3 when in fact both may have an extra channel but drastically different sounds so I got that one wrong. But I still stand by what I said about the horrid, squelchy sound the chip mostly seems to produce haha.
Doki doki panic was a hack
"ROM hack" lol
7:57 I'm going to throw up 🤢
doki doki literature club
Doki Doki Panic Rip Off