you all prolly dont give a damn but does anybody know a tool to get back into an instagram account? I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
@Zayd Layton i really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I work in film production, in colour science and I can tell you that the gamut of Arri and Red cameras is wide, but so far there are no means to produce content for Rec 2020. Most theatrical production is aimed at P3 and the rest, Rec 709. There is more interest and energy spent on upgrading the tool chains for proper HDR.
It does make sense for gamming since the developers are able to allow you to not only choose the color gamut you want to disolay, as well as the colors range of textures and lighting can be in that wider color gamut. It also can be changed during runtime.
Are you as surprised as I am that 99.9% of movies do NOT use BT.2020 color despite consumers paying for more color? I think this is much worse and more insidious than 8K!
DCI-P3 covers 86.9% of Pointer's Gamut - colors that can be produced by reflected light. BT.2020 covers 99.8%. But, a lot of the additional colors in BT.2020 vs P3 do not occur naturally, but only via computer.
Rec.709 and Rec.2020 are TV standards (and color spaces), while DCI-P3 is only a color space. When Rec.709 was introduces and still today, many cheap monitors can't even show Rec.709/sRGB. Does that mean, they should have aimed lower? No, too many standards are confusing. So, Rec.709/sRGB was a good choice. It's the same today. BT.2020 is a good aiming point, and we're getting there, by setting high goals. The DCI-P3 is an aiming point. We also color grade some movies to 4000 nits, although barely any TV can achieve that. So, most HDR movies are graded to 1000 nits. It's a middle point, towards achieving 10.000 nits. The human eye can ideally see CIE 1931. That's the color space, that colors your chart in your video (below those three triangles). So, neither sRGB, DCI-P3 or BT.2020 covers what the eye can see. It also seems that you are judging the difference between DCI-P3 and BT.2020, based on what you see of colours on the chart. But this is an sRGB image on a computer. You can't see the real difference, there would be. And you forget that the chart is really 3-dimensional. The D65 whitepoint is 2-dimentional in the top down view. The CIE chart is really 3-dimensional, almost like an American football.
I am an Electronics and comm engineer major and DSP VLSI PHD. This is good explanation! Point I wanna add is not everyone watch just movies. PC Gamers and Console Gamers and content creators are also using the TV and now a days almost all the games are natively mastered in BT.2020 cplor space. Windows now support native BT.2020 and Dolby Vision and Davinci resolve latest updates also optimized for native BT.2020 workflows. And you are right about eyes ROD cells and con cells and sensitivity to different wavelength of EM spectrum.
Interesting video! Working in the tech space myself, a lot of this tech implementation is for future proofing. When things are eventually mastered at a higher spec, it will be supported. But 2020 support means that it should (theoretically) support the P3 gamut fully, which is the current standard. Plus using the TV for your own material, you can confidently display the picture at the spec you want. So I wouldn't say it's pointless, just overmarketed!
Even if the content was graded fow a wider color gamut. Theres a good chance folks wouldnt see the difference. Color sensitivity at a certain point starts diminishing dramatically for most folks.
Good educational video. However I would suggest that better color space with REC 2020 would not be limited to just green faces, trees and blue skies. There is all kinds of content, some will inevitably use the additional space. And since the TVs have the capability, and the studios have the capability as evident by the handful of examples you cited it's a worthwhile pursuit in my opinion. Don't underestimate the use cases for technological improvements :)
Might get more detailed visuals in future Shrek and Incredible Hulk scenes. Piccolo can show details in more shades of green and we might notice. Grinch?
That's why colour volume is important. The brightness can give you a far bigger range of colour available. Also the most famous movies for green palette is the Matrix series
Excellent point, and an angle I completely neglected. I'll revisit this later in the year when HDMI 2.1 PC graphic cards are released and I can really push the TVs to 4K@120.
@@stopthefomo Current video games already use BT.2020, my PS4 uses this color gamut when playing games in HDR. My TV (LG E9) shows HDR and BT.2020 in the information tab.
Try it out yourself. I've tested Doom Eternal on Xbox One X on the 2019 LGSM8600 NanoCell Extended to Wide and it did give more spectrum of color. It's noticeable for sure but nothing groundbreaking.
The video game industry is pretty ready, most "realistic" video-games already use a pipeline that computes lighting in an HDR color space before tonemapping for the final display. (Since 2004 with Half-Life 2, even though the "HDR" usage is pretty limited compared to what is done nowadays)
I don't understand all the technicalities but when setting BT.2020 on my PJ compared to rec709 it looks so much more vibrant and similar colour to my 'reference' OLED tv. Even though reviews and tech say my Epson LS500 only does around 50% of 2020 and more suited to 709. It just looks more washed out and pastel coloured.
hi mr fomo, when i looked at the codecs on my 2160p movies on vlc, it shows rec2020 (and bt709 on 1080p) is that just the settings made by the uploader? i admit, i just download movies on torrent sites and i cant buy 4k discs and players. here in the philippines, that's how we do it. 95% filipinos doesn't bother buying 4k discs/players.
Hi. So I just watched this one today. Yes, I understand that movies at least up until the time of this video have been presented in P3. But, has this changed in 2021 and going forward ? With competing streaming channels like Netflix, Paramount+, Disney+, HBO Max, etc all producing new content, what’s the latest word on adoption of the wider color gamut?
Our TV's are capable of displaying all the current content that's available in the consumer market. DCI-p3 has significantly higher color volume than rec 709. As someone who calibrates TV's we aim for 75% rec 2020 targets, which is almost the same as p3. The most significant improvement in current TV's is the combination of WCG and HDR.
what color space does samsungs native color space use? i’m guessing it’s DCI or AdobeRGB, i got sony tv and 709 is just to washed out for games which is why i always used native on smaung tvs, now the sony has auto DCI and RGB, DCI looks closer to samungs native but on the sony it has yellow whites yet samung doeisnt? makes no sense, sony tvs pretty much just force auto color space on everything or you need $600 collaboration equipment
The point of having an 8k TV is you still see more details compared to 4k and under, even if the media is 4k and under... That's the same jump from 1k to 4k... 4 Pixel will show more and sharper details compared to 2 Pixel. That's why PC gamers use Downsampling/Supersampling method to better the graphics and textures or using Smooth Video Project with MadVR to upscale video content (videos and streams). The more pixel you use the better the quality and details - no matter if pre-processing, post-processing or native pixel. Your eye just have to be able to see it (eye-sharpness) like everyone sees colors different. It's the same like a glass wearer don't see stars at night, but when wearing glasses they can see there are hundreds of stars...
What exactly is BT2020 I leave it off on my Xbox series X. Is it for the blacks? Picture or how fast the TV is. What is thr best setting for a G1 oled ?
Would the WIDE option on color gamut for Lg OLED enable BT2020 vs auto? If the source content is mastered in PS3, why does it change and look more saturated when set to WIDE? is that some kind of internal algorithm?
Rec.2020 is absolutely necessary if the source content is recorded in that color space. Forcing Rec.2020 in settings is stupid... leave it in auto. It's a color space that exists for a reason, and your TV should auto adjust to it when it is needed, ONLY when it is needed. It is a much broader and superior color space that is rarely used outside of BBC Nature videos like Planet Earth II and others, or actual Dolby Vision demos, but it is outstanding. Soon more and more content will be mastered in Rec.2020 and you will see its benefits more often. For now, having the capability is a good thing, so you're ready for it when it starts to pour in.
So it means we need rec 2020 monitors to grade on -> produce rec 2020 mastered content -> upload to a rec 2020 supported platform-> consume on a rec 2020 TV. It has to start with the monitor. That said, I’ve seen videos edited in rec 2020 on TH-cam shown with the HDR tag (e.g. Links TV’s hdr content), since there doesn’t exist a rec 2020 monitor, it’s not really rec 2020? (And does TH-cam support rec 2020 as a platform?)
This video made my brain explode. Wonderful. Here's my question: The fact that bt2020 allows to capture more shades of green could represent the reason for which movie studios are not going to use this in the future? I mean, the "green issue" could be a problem with all the massive green screen usage? I was thinking that maybe shooting a film with green screen through a source color space that is so so sensitive to green shades could be a problem. Just a curiosity, I'm not even sure that these two aspects (green screen scenes and the color space used in the source) are linked... Thank you anyway, great job!
Great find! Honestly, I saw the first part of your video comming within 2 minutes. Not that I claim to be super smart... Again we all are beeing mislead by TV manufacturers. :>( I wonder if under normal circumstances our eyes are capable of seeing the difference between P3 and BT2020....?
You are not mislead more than you allow. It's lack of knowlage that is the issue. And manufactures love to exploit that.. There is quite a big difference between 8bit vs 10bit color (SDR vs HDR standards)
What's the point ? If you provide your own home movie 6K 8K etc For one's own viewing perfection. Doesn't have to be from a dvd or movie house. Commented half way through so forgive if I missed something.
Having an excess capacity helps to future proof. If they devise a 'fold-in' and 'expansion' algorithm (ala Dolby, MQA) or decide to start mastering into the larger volume available you don't have to swap out. Currently useless but POTENTIALLY beneficial.
Wishful thinking? I have a 2015 high end Samsung that I can’t even get Disney+ on!! By the time there is any improvement in colour mastering, they’ll probably make it compatible with brand new TVs only!!!! Just look at how Samsung has downgraded its 4K range to try and persuade people to buy 8K this year.
@@ipodimusprime3368 Buy the most advanced , reasonably priced, products and stay content for as long as possible. I look at 8K and laugh. When I was younger my vision could be adjusted (I wear glasses) to 20/12, 20/10. Even then I would not be able to differentiate between 4K and 8K at any reasonable distance, one that would allow me to see most of the screen easily.
one thing i've learned recently is that we actually see a LOT of ultraviolet color. i've bought my first anti-UV lenses and the world looks a lot more "dead" through it. more greenish. missing colors, specially purple hues. it honestly looks like these lenses has a mild built-in "piss filter" on them. BUT! that's only on sunlight, or incandescent sources. they literally make no indoors at night. our artificial light sources pretty much don't emit UV anymore. since it's the red cone that majorly detects UV, followed by the blue cone, we could just fake those colors with straight purple on screens. but do we? i don't know...
I got lots of blurays and every time i watch Lost it just blows up my mind in therms of colors and details there is no other film ever produced with such a skin tones and deep deep colors. Lost is just 1080p but simply stands above anything no matter what resolution or whatever they're using.
I am curious how this topic relates to the quality of smart pad and smart phone screens? When not in front of my living room TV, I watch a lot of content on my old iPad Air or on my iPhone X. I watched this on both of those, especially pausing on the very green examples, and could not see a difference. But that raised the question whether this meant Both screens use current technology, or if the TH-cam content itself is being streamed in P3 or BT.2020 or any other gamut better than what an older iPad Air screen can handle.
Very informative video. Thank you! But if I am not wrong the Technicolor movies, no matter how old they were, did have enough color information to cover the Rec 2020 specification. They were however too expensive and eventually substituted by cheaper and faster chemical processes. Funny to think that we might soon be seen colors no one ever saw in pretty old movies; a range of colors that we will be unable to see in more recent films, no matter how modern our TVs are. In any case, apart from any truth, there is a ton of marketing in the whole thing, as your presentation made clear.
So the scenes that take advantage of it are fairly rare, but even if movies were mastered in it how noticeable is it in those scenes? If it's like the 4k versus 8k test and very hard to tell the difference it's still not going to matter compared to something like contrast. The contrast difference between OLED and LCD is easily noticeable in almost any scene, and scenes that really take advantage of it are fairly common.
Been using motion interpolation for awhile, cranked up to max settings, and I gotten used to it, whenever I switch back to 24fps I really notice the lag. I noticing artifacts here and there, but it's a necessary sacrifice.
Very informative video and something that I have know to be the case for a while b/c of my video production background. Now, when it comes to games, they can be mastered differently. The Windows HDR mode standard does allow for BT. 2020 so I wonder if the difference is more visible in this medium with some titles that have a decent HDR implementation. This would be a great comparison to do actually :)
Thank you for that info. This MAKES IT EVEN WORSE. One of the most popular color grading software can't even render in 2020 and we've been buying 2020 capable TVs for years now.
Agree and not. Dolby format expend color space to device color space. But I love movies not because of color space, I don't care. The story is more important, even comfortable place/couch more preferred than wider space. Some minnor color shifts not a problem - only marketing.
Capitalism loves to move on from product to product without ever fleshing out any of them. As soon as things get too good and cheap, they have to be killed off. Nearly 100 years since the beginning of the tv and the crt still has a niche unsatisfied by any modern product. 11 ish years since the krp-500m and it's still comparable to modern high end tvs, even better in many ways. Nearly everything is still rec709 and 1080p or lower, we still don't even have that much 4k or hdr content and now they are pushing 8k(and next 16k of course).
@@TheCaptainhowdy11 No, neither capitalism nor any other mode of production is the reason we have stuff. Labor is. Did capitalism light the first man-made fire? No, a human did that by working. Capitalism(like its predecessor feudalism) is just a rung on the ladder of history, and we have to keep climbing.
Definitely depends on the developer. Email the game developer company and I'm sure they'll respond. But remember, just because it's in a BT2020 container does not mean they actually use BT2020 color, so be specific when asking if they are actually utilizing BT2020 color, not just the container to hold RGB color space.
I think the point is future proofing. Manufacturers will make capable technology before its completely in use by an industry. 2020 is the direction and when films are produced in 2020 it will be important to have a TV that can properly display it.
This sold me on getting the X800M2 4k player. Reviewers complained it wasn't doing BT2020 in Dolby Vision so I dismissed it looking at the LG90. Then noticed in reviews many LG90 owners were ditching their players for the X800M2 because it looked better on their flag ship TVs (CX, Q90, A8H) Now it is making more sense after you pointed this out. Why waste resources on something that won't be noticed if you can focus on other specs which is the route Sony took with it's X800M2.
So, basically using bt.2020 on dci-p3 mastered movies should have 0 affect, since dci-p3 lays within bt.2020. However, if the source actually is bt.2020, you’ll get more color. So there wouldn’t be any harm using bt.2020 when seeing content in dci-pi3. However, I’ve noticed some movies do look a little bit different when switching between dci-p3 and bt.2020. For example, colors look more natural in bt.2020 from Disneyplus on Enchanto. Whereas DCI-p3 has more saturated colors. As for video games, most video games that use HDR implement bt.2020 and DCI-P3 shouldn’t be used when playing video games in HDR. You’ll notice a massive shift in color when using bt.2020 vs dci-p3. For example, Spider-Man looks more realistic in bt.2020 on PS5, and Anakins lightsaber in Battlefront 2 has a more natural blue. The green grass in Forza Horizon 5 has a more natural red green, and a less candy green, in bt.2020. In Microsoft Flight Simulator, bt.2020 allows us to see a more sky blue color, while dci-p3 has a more saturated blue. I would say always use bt.2020 if your TV has a high percentage coverage of the this color space. Watching movies in bt.2020 shouldn’t have too much of a difference, colors will shift ever so slightly if it’s in dci-p3. Since video games mostly are mastered in bt.2020, if it’s HDR, you’ll get the full range of colors that the developers worked on
Wow I didn't even know you were back. I legit dind't see any videos being recommended or in my subscription section until today with this video. I looked at your videos and it looks like after you recovered your channel back the views went down drastically. Maybe you should contact the youtube and see what's going on? I Feel like the youtube AI is not making your videos discoverable. maybe it still thinks your channel account is hacked?
I did ask TH-cam, and it responded that even after restoring the channel, it has to reset ALL MY ALGORITHMS as if this was a brand new channel - I basically have to re-earn all my views without the benefit of past videos and my subscriber base!
I had the same thing happen, it took me searching for the channel to start getting it in my feed again. I don't want the bell icon because I don't want it to notify me, I just want it in my subscriptions.
Question Fomo; now that HDMI 2.1 tvs are becoming the standard (for sure by 2021), when do you think we will get 12 bit panels? DV is mastered in 12 bits so it would be awesome to finally see DV in it's full capacity.
You are kidding right? Firstly, 10bit panels are only just breaking into the market. (Most TVs are 8bit + FRC). Second, HDMI 2.2 is slowly being added to TVs this year. We have a very long wait for 12bit
Roger Halt just breaking in? Might want to do your homework before commenting. I had the Samsung ks8000 back in 2016 and that was a 10bit panel. I have a 2017 Oled and it’s a 10bit panel. The higher end tvs have had 10 bit panels since at least 2016 hence my question about 12 bit panels. Ive never heard of hdmi 2.2, you must mean hdmi 2.1
Also the wider the gamut the more bits you need - for bt2020 you really need 12bit panels... bit is the number of colors within the given color spectrum, that number remains the same no matter if you are in bt2020 or rec709, so if you have more colors to cover over a wider gamut but your tv is only capable of 8 bit there will be more banding - it is like stretching pixels.
So you say that if my TV it's only 8 bit and I play games content on HDR in bt 2020 (the nowadays HDR games are mastered in bt2020) I will have color banding?. It's better to have color space to auto instead of native for Samsung for example since native it's dcp3 color gamut instead of the 709 that Auto option use in my 8 bit TV?, will this get rid of banding?.
@@ADISTOD3MUS If your TV is an 8-bit panel and you're attempting to display content that is mastered in a wider color gamut like BT.2020, you may indeed experience some color banding. This is because the TV's 8-bit panel is limited in the number of colors it can display, and the wider color gamut extends beyond this range. When the TV tries to map these excess colors, it can result in visible banding, where smooth gradients in the image become chunky steps of color change. As for setting your color space to 'auto' or 'native' on your Samsung TV, it could potentially help. By default, the 'Auto' setting should adjust the color space to match the source. If your content is mastered in Rec.709, setting the TV to 'Auto' should align with that and could reduce banding since the source and the display are using the same color gamut. On the other hand, if you select 'Native', the TV will try to utilize its full color capabilities regardless of the source. On a Samsung TV, 'Native' typically represents the DCI-P3 color gamut, which is wider than Rec.709 but not as wide as BT.2020. However, color banding is not only dependent on color gamut but also depends on the bit depth of the content, the processing capability of your TV, and even the quality of the content itself. It's also important to note that while adjusting the color space may help to mitigate banding, it may not completely eliminate it, especially if you're viewing HDR content that's mastered for a 10-bit or 12-bit panel on an 8-bit TV. Ultimately, the best setting can often be a matter of personal preference, so I would recommend trying both 'Auto' and 'Native' to see which one looks better to your eyes.
I still use a 51" plasma tv which to me is still the best in my opinion.No eyestrain,fantastic 3 dimensional like contrast and wonderful smooth motion.When this finally dies hopefully microled will be available and be nearly as good.
@@pietroscarpa2384 Nope. OLED has excess film Judder compared to plasma, and current LG & Samsung OLED Black frame insertion only provides 650p Motion resolution with a 5ms persistence. Some plasma's could actually achieve 1080p motion, with a 2ms persistence. A CRT by comparison has 1ms persistence, meaning, Zero motion blur. OLED's glaring weakness is obviously motion, especially 'base' motion. Too much blur and only 300p motion resolution, it's pretty much trash imo. Gaming at 120fps, & using max Black frame insertion for SDR Movies/TV is the ticket, but neither are perfect but they do wonders compared to gaming at 60fps and 'not' using BFI for streaming. My Panasonic S60 plasma doesn't have the greatest motion either mind you and is considered to have average plasma motion, with it's motion persistence and motion resolution being in the same ball park as the LG C1's MotionPro 'High', but again, far less judder on plasma, no 'out of box' black crushing and NO severe BFI shadow detail crushing or noticeable flicker on whites unlike the C1... A Samsung S95C/S90C QD-OLED with it's black crush corrected & BFI shadow detail crushing eliminated from a professional calibration will be the next TV i get. I doubt Samsung has increased BFI motion beyond 650, nor will the persistence improve, because most people who buy TV's dont seem to give a flying squirrel about motion. As long as it's eye exploding bright and thin as paper.
@@pietroscarpa2384 Panasonic OLED is only available in Europe & JPN unless I'm mistaken. Either way, I do remember Vincent mentioning in his review(can't remember which model) that it's BFI resolved 1080p motion resolution, just like LG's CX(although it's brightness was clobbered down to like 70 nits at best which is pretty bad) Not sure how many nits the panny has left when using it's BFI though OR what the motion persistence is. Even if it could resolve 2ms persistence @ 1080p motion, there's still excess film judder. And that's really the ONLY redeemable quality of plasma Vs a QD-OLED with lets say amazing BFI that could pull off what the panasonic OLED is doing.
Does this mean it will display less P3 Colors? Since the gamut will be divided by the same quantity ? BT2020 divided by a billion vs P3/rec709 divided by a billion.
Agree most people won't notice color differences but when you have a non WCG(wide color gamut) TV next to one that does like my old Vizio E and new Vizio M7 with WCG pretty noticeable especially in nature shows greens, sunsets with deep reds, and or course flesh skin tones look more natural. Also for older TV's, that can't hit 100 P3, gamut or tone mapping more important to make colors match what they should look like when they were mastered. Sony and LG would think do better job in final color accuracy than Vizio in this are since they have more advanced algorithms not to mention the latest LG OLED TV's use built-in 3D Lut tables that assures the most accurate rendering of both SDR and HDR picture content. One problem with OLED I've seen from YT video's though is that have hard time hitting deep reds since that's the color that tends to wear out quickest on an OLED display so you get more of an orange/red than true bright red. So IMO not pointless if it ends up giving us all better TV's in the end with better color accuracy for all existing non BT.2020 content :) Anyways, found this online from Netflix anyways, bit more confirmation that all their content mastered and stored in P3 dunno about VUDU. "We ask that monitors are set to and masters are stored in P3-D65 color space, rather than Rec.2020, since P3 is typically the largest realizable and accurate color gamut between different mastering monitors." partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000622507-Can-I-work-in-Rec-2020- Seems even mastering monitors studios use to make these movies don't agree on the colors and seems old Plasma tech still better to use to compare against so seems TV manufacturers still haven't perfected colors enough to match Plasma unless someone already did a video on that LOL www.provideocoalition.com/nab-panel-the-future-of-hdr-in-cinema/
For 8k if you sit closer like for gaming then it will be noticeable. 8k tv's really should all be for gaming since that's where it matters and they should be curved. What would be the issue with having a standard that goes from UV to the IR? We can see tiny amounts of UV and IR, correct? Perhaps cameras could capture UV and IR and display them as violet or red with dithering/shimmering/rainbow noise or some other noise variant added to aesthetically signify their presence to match the scene.
Another crazy idea i was just thinking when you said movies are mastered in P3 not rec2020, i bet an AI chip built into the TV could on the fly transform the P3 image into rec 2020. Thats how those sorts of AI work they imagine data that was not there in the first place.. infact this upscaling software i have for single images called gigapixel AI, can turn a JPG into a TIFF with a wider color gamut. It guesses what might be there and puts it in, convincingly because its been trained on good high resolution source data like raw images.
It's probably more the manufacturing companies that are to blame as we need 12 bit panels to see it. Studios won't give us proper BT2020 until they implement it for TV's. Brightness is always improving so the 4000 to 10000 nit mastering is slowly getting there that we can see
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
taking into account that the color space also has a dark-light dimension, is there a benefit between Rec2020 and P3 on that dimension for HDR content? (this would probably apply for all colours, not just those outside P3 - those greens, light blues, red and magenta that are outside P3 in the 2D rendition of the colour space)
HDR content was designed with the Rec2020 color space in mind. P3 is more like this transition color space we are in right now, that was designed for movie theaters and brought to the home, but not originally intended for HDR.
Wow! Well explained, man! I’ve been watching most of your tv review videos recently and the way you explain things really helped me on coming to a decision which tv to buy within my budget. I’m from the Philippines and I am looking at tcl 65” tvs. I’m comparing 65 P8M and 65 P8S. So far, the difference that I see is that 65 P8S has WCG, HDR10+, and not sure about the contrast ratio. Difference in price is around $150. I’ve been thinking if it’s worth to spend more for these differences. Hope you can help me more and also opinions from others who can see this, i will appreciate it if you can help me decide. Thanks again!
Are you working on a 6K monitor? I'm waiting for Blackmagic to release their 8K pocket camera but then realized my video editing PC would have to be upgraded too. I'm hoping to capture some 8K detail when I start reviewing and comparing with 8K TVs this year.
@@stopthefomo I'm working with an 8K Dell monitor and an Alienware PC plus I have the Q900RB from Samsung using the HDMI port 2.1 with another Alienware. Most PCs at reasonable price can edit 8K content now. Animating in 8K you need a powerhouse though. RED 8K files play and edit very well with an Alienware PC at around 2500$ USD. I'm eager to watch your 8K reviews in the near future. Thx.
@@MASKOAA I'm not so sure., thats what I'm wondering. I have a feeling if I told people I bought a 40" 4k monitor I'd not get too much push back. So why not a 80" 8k? My apps would certainly be fine in 8k, and it could be used for close in app usage and movies/games (in 4k) from 10 feet. I had the opportunity to use two brands of ~around 80" touchscreens and fell in love. (they were 4k of course) Now I can't afford touch screens, but tvs have become so cheap especially when compared to monitors....
@@therealhard8times I don't care about declarative statements of opinion, but rather I was hoping for a gem of reason that broadened the landscape of what I consider. (which is why this channel is my favorite) So specifically here I was hoping to read why it was pointless.
This is why I went with the LG G3 instead of the S95C. I get a brighter screen with Dolby Vision while having less Rec2020 coverage than the Samsung but my UHD discs wouldn't take advantage of the wider color gamut anyway.
Ultra HD 4K bluray movies are mastered in DCI P3 and is contained in a Rec.2020 container because that's the color space for UHD. No consumer displays currently covers 100% of Rec. 2020 color space.
Hello from Jamaica FOMO. This is off topic but why is it that U.S. television networks all still broadcast at 720p or 1080i? I've had 1080p televisions since 2008, and got a Samsung Q70 in January in "glorious" 4k that has to upscale tv channels. The only times I see native 4k are when I get 4k feeds from the internet (movies and demo material). Isn't broadcast TV (not HBO, S howtime, etc on Direct TV or Netflix ) going to catch up?
How is it then, that when i switch between DCI-P3 and BT2020 Color gamut in my TV settings, the colors change significantly? This happens regardless of what source or type of content I watch, be it a PS5 game, Netflix or TH-cam.. Explain that to me? You realize why all TV's are always left in Native color gamut as manufacturer default setting? Because it provides the widest possible color space obtainable with the TV, it will literally show every color it can possibly produce, at the expensive of accuracy. I believe it's the case, that regardless of the mastering (signal/source) the TV itself can increase the width of the color gamut, simply by choosing BT2020 or Native gamut. But it will not be true to the source. You can take an SDR BT.709 signal and on-the-fly convert it into HDR and wide color gamut, which I do on a daily basis. Is it so far-fetched to believe you can change DCI-p3 into BT2020? Isn't there some ultra geek who can shed some light on this, please reply 😜
Hi FOMO,I enjoy your insightful and factual insights on all things TV related (and more! ) You are gifted in how you present your topics and I'm glad to have found your channel. Interesting to see the current pointlessness on going above P3 colour when considering a TV purchase for watching Blu ray movies. I'm wondering though if rec2020 TV's are pointless if the TV is used as a PC monitor instead of a Blu ray display? (I use my QLED primarily as a PC gaming monitor and wonder if the same rule applies to PC gaming? I have no idea what colour gamut video games are mastered in and if rec 2020 TV's would display PC game colours any better than what we have now. I have found selecting RGB in the highest output colour depth (8 bpc at 1440p) in the nvidia control panel looks best but have no idea where these settings sit in regards to P3 and rec2020. I can say however that colour looks brilliant on the QLED and if this is as good as it gets I have no complaints whatsoever. As for those 'not quite as inky as OLED blacks' and 'slight loss of detail in specular highlights' well, that's another issue ; )
Whatever the hardware manufacturers and content creators need to do to get all of the human skin tones right is much more important to me than getting additional shades of green and blue.
Sounds like you shoulkd calibrate it if it's only the green.. All colors should be more realistic when the content is 10bit and the panel also is 10bit.
Great Video, thanks for the info!! But i wonder... What about video games? The current consoles were marketed with that spec (Wide Color Gamut) Do the games really use it?
Video games are the reason the BT2020 color space is a factor for TVs. HDR games are mastered in BT2020 which is why only in Video games is it ever necessary to turn your color saturation higher than the default settings.
Great video. I’m a gamer. Is the bt2020 color apace used for them more often? Is it becoming more used? Do you think the new consoles will have a positive effect on that being used more?
I'm hoping HGIG initiative with game developers, game card makers and TV manufacturers result in more impressive BT2020 content for sure. But nobody has investigated how much of BT2020 is being used in games currently.
I have Sony Bravia 4k TV and let Me tell you when you apply bt.2020 the colors literally pop out of the screen especially green and red. Your 100% correct, if you put bt.2020 on p3, you have to reduce color intensity.I love messing with it on different movies.
Colour space is hard. Ultimately, green cone sensitivity overlaps both red and blue cone sensitivity, so you need additional green subpixels to do a good job. 3 green subpixels would be good; slightly chartreuse green, slightly cyan green and something inbetween those.
@@PSYCHOV3N0M yes i know what u saying... but for gaming is most important thing to have strong panel.. and play without worry about anything.... people who turn on PS5 and play 2,3 hours r maybe ok but real gamers i don't think so....
17:40 Great rant! But *I would not say more shades of green* (thats quantization), but maybe *larger shades of green* ? Also, in theory you'll need higher quantization levels to not have artifacts like banding get worse when going to Rec.2020, since there's a larger area to cover... I don't know if 10-bit is going to be enough with PQ-HDR..?
On the TCL 6 series. What is Native and Auto color space. Cause while watching cable tv Auto looks more vibrant and brighter while Native looks more dull yet more natural but while watching on Netflix/Prime/YT 4k/DV/HDR Native looks more vibrant and brighter like it's the opposite so I've just went back to Native color space setting what the TV comes defaulted too.
Just a silly idea here, probably totally pointless but when you said tvs need to some how have an improved filter to get the rec 2020 colors, it made me think of those Encroma glasses that color blind people wear and i wondered if TV manufacturers could sell special glasses that have the filter in them so you see better colors on your tv?
I have a question. I know it's subjective. I want the most immersive experience possible. I'm trying to choose between a 75" Vizio P Series Quantum X and an 85" TU-8000. Thoughts? What is more immersive in your opinion, excellent picture or a massive screen?
22:00 Planet Earth 2 is already in rec 2020, so maybe try comparing that on your Sony and Vizio :) I suppose movies set in jungles could use the extra green: Avatar, Jumanji etc. I'm sure James Cameron is looking to use as wide a colour gamut for the avatar sequels as he can. Sports broadcasts often contain lots of green too, and with time they will be broadcast in HLG with rec 2020 colors. In fact TV stations are already testing production of HLG material, so while movies may stick with P3 for now, we will eventually see a lot things on TV in rec 2020, and Hollywood won't want to be worse than TV.
I believe this color-space, along with 8K, is the same conundrum as almost all of new technology. Think about when 4K TV's came out, people said "That's a waste of money, there's not even 4K content for your expensive TV". That statement was true, however if nobody buys 4K TVs then what point is there in companies upgrading to release 4K content? Someone has to go first, either the manufacturers or the content providers and it usually has to be the manufactures. To put into context, back in the day when TH-cam was only 1080p, why on Earth would someone buy a new 4K camera that cost a lot of money (at the time) and spend more time encoding and editing the video (much larger file size) if nobody could watch it in 4K anyways? It wasn't until 4K displays started coming out (TV's) that TH-cam started offering 4K video and then content creators started making 4K videos. "Someone has to go first, either the manufacturers or the content providers and it usually has to be the manufactures." No company wants to throw money away at another HD DVD vs BluRay so it's best to wait and see where people's money is going. Another example, USB-C was finalized in 2014 and it still took three years before a major phone manufacturer like Samsung used it in the Galaxy S8. USB-C was expensive to manufacture (it's gotten cheaper but today it's still relatively expensive). If you bought a computer with USB-C along with USB-C chargers and USB-C cables what would be the point if you can't connect a USB-C device? It wasn't untill the last year or two that laptop manufacturers started adding the port across their product lines. Computer and phone manufacturers are reluctant to spend money on new technology that people can't use and accessory producers are reluctant to make devices and adapters people have nothing to use them on. Although I hate Apple for many reasons, this is one thing they do well... They force adoption of new tech regardless of the backlash. Remember when the 30pin changed to Lightning? People were mad that all of their current accessories were, for the most part, useless and had to be replaced. But because they had a large and loyal user-base people still bought the new phone en masse and soon after release it went from a handful of accessories to every-thing changing over rapidly until, generally speaking, no-one produced 30pin products anymore because only a small group of people still used them. I agree in the sense that I personally don't buy products that I can't fully utilize, such as that 2020 color gamut. I didn't buy my first 4K TV till 2016 when there was enough content being released and streamed in 4K... However, there's no reason for the movie industry to use the newer color gamut on home release products if there isn't a market for it. So for the time being, TV manufacturers are going to keep improving on their tech to stay competitive and eventually content will follow to support it once the market, decides which features it cares about and adopts with their purchase. Obviously there are caveats, as there are large consortiums that band together to make changes together to move the market in a certain direction, think of HDMI and how it became the standard defacto connection for pretty much all consumer products that send or receive an audio+video signal. It didn't take years for this to happen, the HDMI standard and digital TV's were hand-in-hand, although in the transition period they still had S-Video, Composite, Components, etc. so consumers could still connect their existing equipment but eventually and new devices came to market and everyone started upgrading that at this point in time, younger individuals don't even know what S-Video is because it essentially is useless now and has died out. I'm of course not saying that manufacturers don't peddle bullshite specs and features to try and lure consumers into buying their products, I just feel that this newer color gamut is merely at the early-adopter tax phase and once it starts becoming a 'standard' feature then the movie industry/movie distribution companies may start to release content using the wider color space. Movies however are a special industry in which the content creators generally dictate the direction based on their style and vision; However as new tools become available we see them start to utilize new capabilities in their art-form. As such I believe 8K along with BT.2020 will eventually become the 'standard' eventually but it will take a bunch of rich early adopters to advance manufacturing to normal consumer prices until we see wide adoption of the new tech in people's homes and industry to take advantage of it. Welcome back btw... I love your videos and I'm glad to see you're still making them! Looks like I need to re-smash that subscribe and get caught up on the last two months of videos ^_^
@@stopthefomo Gratci Signor, I too hope that they start utilizing the new color space. Streaming services are a great place to start since consumers don't need extra hardware. I sincerely appreciate you taking to time to read my comment. (Even though there are a number of grammatical errors and a couple of butchered sentences at the end lol) Although I didn't intend for it, it reads a little 'preachy'... Lord knows I'm not one to stand at a podium lol... Keep up the great work.
I still say that, 4K is useless without HDR. HDR is really is what makes a difference between 1080p and 4K. We still have very little content in 4K. The masses are dumb and TV manufacturers know that, that's why when 8K comes out, they will shift you to 16K and you will have dopes claiming they can tell the difference on their 55 inch sets from 10 feet away.
I hate when people say this Just like how some people said back when 1080p was becoming a thing HDR does make a good difference But guess what a 4K HDR TV will beat out a 1080P HDR TV The extra details in resolution allows the HDR to look better due to better and smoother gradations of the color space used at 10 bit vs 8 bit
The live colour option on high gives rec709 content a rec2020 look on Sony TVs with the X1U chip. I've tried this on the z9f 75 and the effect does a really good job upscaling the colours.
what color space does samsungs native space use? DCI or RGb? i feel it’s DCI and i’m trying to make my sony tv look like samung colors because that’s what i like yet DCi on sony tvs have yellow whites and it’s annoying id rather keep the sony as motion for games and movies and stuff is way better then smaung but samungs native color space looks bright and colorful without over saturation to much, yet my sony x95j ether looks washed out on auto and yellow whites on DCI, browns look somewhat pinkish when it’s set to AdobeRGB so i give up LOL
100% rec. 709 is a very OLED color space from way back when and covers all the colors you see on a TV purchased 7 years ago. Today, there's a bit more color as everything is filmed in DCI-P3 (wider color gamut) as part of HDR content. Honestly, 709 is fine for people watching everyday content in SDR
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
DAMN! Man, honored to have you use our song. Let us know when you need more music for your videos, would love to help you man
Found you guys on ArtList!
you all prolly dont give a damn but does anybody know a tool to get back into an instagram account?
I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
@Bo Caiden Instablaster ;)
@Zayd Layton i really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm.
Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Zayd Layton It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account!
I work in film production, in colour science and I can tell you that the gamut of Arri and Red cameras is wide, but so far there are no means to produce content for Rec 2020. Most theatrical production is aimed at P3 and the rest, Rec 709. There is more interest and energy spent on upgrading the tool chains for proper HDR.
It does make sense for gamming since the developers are able to allow you to not only choose the color gamut you want to disolay, as well as the colors range of textures and lighting can be in that wider color gamut.
It also can be changed during runtime.
Amazing video, I learned quite a lot from it!
By the way how can I check if a Blu-ray movie that I own is mastered is Rec.709, DCI-P3 or Rec.2020?
Are you as surprised as I am that 99.9% of movies do NOT use BT.2020 color despite consumers paying for more color? I think this is much worse and more insidious than 8K!
Just set color space to native and you are good.
DCI-P3 covers 86.9% of Pointer's Gamut - colors that can be produced by reflected light. BT.2020 covers 99.8%. But, a lot of the additional colors in BT.2020 vs P3 do not occur naturally, but only via computer.
@@JumpRopeLift You'd think animated movies would take advantage of this.
Rec.709 and Rec.2020 are TV standards (and color spaces), while DCI-P3 is only a color space. When Rec.709 was introduces and still today, many cheap monitors can't even show Rec.709/sRGB. Does that mean, they should have aimed lower? No, too many standards are confusing. So, Rec.709/sRGB was a good choice.
It's the same today. BT.2020 is a good aiming point, and we're getting there, by setting high goals. The DCI-P3 is an aiming point. We also color grade some movies to 4000 nits, although barely any TV can achieve that. So, most HDR movies are graded to 1000 nits. It's a middle point, towards achieving 10.000 nits.
The human eye can ideally see CIE 1931. That's the color space, that colors your chart in your video (below those three triangles). So, neither sRGB, DCI-P3 or BT.2020 covers what the eye can see. It also seems that you are judging the difference between DCI-P3 and BT.2020, based on what you see of colours on the chart. But this is an sRGB image on a computer. You can't see the real difference, there would be. And you forget that the chart is really 3-dimensional. The D65 whitepoint is 2-dimentional in the top down view. The CIE chart is really 3-dimensional, almost like an American football.
I would love to see a conversation between you and Vincent Teoh at HDTVTest
ME TOO. One day I hope to have him on a live chat to talk TVs!
They are both great reviewers!!👍
@hoihoi9866 I don’t understand what you mean by that.
I am an Electronics and comm engineer major and DSP VLSI PHD.
This is good explanation!
Point I wanna add is not everyone watch just movies. PC Gamers and Console Gamers and content creators are also using the TV and now a days almost all the games are natively mastered in BT.2020 cplor space. Windows now support native BT.2020 and Dolby Vision and Davinci resolve latest updates also optimized for native BT.2020 workflows.
And you are right about eyes ROD cells and con cells and sensitivity to different wavelength of EM spectrum.
Interesting video! Working in the tech space myself, a lot of this tech implementation is for future proofing. When things are eventually mastered at a higher spec, it will be supported. But 2020 support means that it should (theoretically) support the P3 gamut fully, which is the current standard.
Plus using the TV for your own material, you can confidently display the picture at the spec you want. So I wouldn't say it's pointless, just overmarketed!
Even if the content was graded fow a wider color gamut. Theres a good chance folks wouldnt see the difference. Color sensitivity at a certain point starts diminishing dramatically for most folks.
Yes. sRGB is not so far from covering the whole visible gamut, perceptually.
Good educational video. However I would suggest that better color space with REC 2020 would not be limited to just green faces, trees and blue skies. There is all kinds of content, some will inevitably use the additional space. And since the TVs have the capability, and the studios have the capability as evident by the handful of examples you cited it's a worthwhile pursuit in my opinion. Don't underestimate the use cases for technological improvements :)
Might get more detailed visuals in future Shrek and Incredible Hulk scenes. Piccolo can show details in more shades of green and we might notice. Grinch?
@8:36 I read that The Batman Lego movie and Inside Out were graded using AcesCG which led to their nice wide color gamut.
That's why colour volume is important. The brightness can give you a far bigger range of colour available. Also the most famous movies for green palette is the Matrix series
I applaud your having the honesty and courage to admit that you - along with many others - incorrectly got on the 2020 hype bandwagon. Thank you.
I'm constantly learning something new - Thanks for sticking with me!
Future Videogames will be able to use BT2020. It will be funny if games will actually look more true to life than motion pictures.
Excellent point, and an angle I completely neglected. I'll revisit this later in the year when HDMI 2.1 PC graphic cards are released and I can really push the TVs to 4K@120.
@@stopthefomo Current video games already use BT.2020, my PS4 uses this color gamut when playing games in HDR. My TV (LG E9) shows HDR and BT.2020 in the information tab.
@@yasirer you right about that my ps4 pro play game in 2020 in hdr on my this year samsung qled 55inches it look great only on hdr content
How do video games fit into this topic? Do game creators use the same color space guidelines as movie makers??
Indeed. So many games support HDR these day, but what about the color space?
Try it out yourself. I've tested Doom Eternal on Xbox One X on the 2019 LGSM8600 NanoCell Extended to Wide and it did give more spectrum of color. It's noticeable for sure but nothing groundbreaking.
The video game industry is pretty ready, most "realistic" video-games already use a pipeline that computes lighting in an HDR color space before tonemapping for the final display.
(Since 2004 with Half-Life 2, even though the "HDR" usage is pretty limited compared to what is done nowadays)
But for the wider color gamut I’m not sure.
I don't understand all the technicalities but when setting BT.2020 on my PJ compared to rec709 it looks so much more vibrant and similar colour to my 'reference' OLED tv. Even though reviews and tech say my Epson LS500 only does around 50% of 2020 and more suited to 709. It just looks more washed out and pastel coloured.
Agreed. The cinema standard for DCPs is DCI-P3, yet my TV needs Rec 2020?
hi mr fomo, when i looked at the codecs on my 2160p movies on vlc, it shows rec2020 (and bt709 on 1080p) is that just the settings made by the uploader? i admit, i just download movies on torrent sites and i cant buy 4k discs and players. here in the philippines, that's how we do it. 95% filipinos doesn't bother buying 4k discs/players.
Hi. So I just watched this one today. Yes, I understand that movies at least up until the time of this video have been presented in P3.
But, has this changed in 2021 and going forward ? With competing streaming channels like Netflix, Paramount+, Disney+, HBO Max, etc all producing new content, what’s the latest word on adoption of the wider color gamut?
Our TV's are capable of displaying all the current content that's available in the consumer market. DCI-p3 has significantly higher color volume than rec 709. As someone who calibrates TV's we aim for 75% rec 2020 targets, which is almost the same as p3. The most significant improvement in current TV's is the combination of WCG and HDR.
what color space does samsungs native color space use? i’m guessing it’s DCI or AdobeRGB, i got sony tv and 709 is just to washed out for games which is why i always used native on smaung tvs, now the sony has auto DCI and RGB, DCI looks closer to samungs native but on the sony it has yellow whites yet samung doeisnt? makes no sense, sony tvs pretty much just force auto color space on everything or you need $600 collaboration equipment
Do you have an update of this info now in 2024?
Firstly, glad your back. Secondly, this is one of the best Fomo on tech episodes. Saw it from start till end, makes total sense. Great Job.
Hey thanks for sitting through the end!
The point of having an 8k TV is you still see more details compared to 4k and under, even if the media is 4k and under... That's the same jump from 1k to 4k... 4 Pixel will show more and sharper details compared to 2 Pixel. That's why PC gamers use Downsampling/Supersampling method to better the graphics and textures or using Smooth Video Project with MadVR to upscale video content (videos and streams). The more pixel you use the better the quality and details - no matter if pre-processing, post-processing or native pixel. Your eye just have to be able to see it (eye-sharpness) like everyone sees colors different. It's the same like a glass wearer don't see stars at night, but when wearing glasses they can see there are hundreds of stars...
What exactly is BT2020 I leave it off on my Xbox series X. Is it for the blacks? Picture or how fast the TV is. What is thr best setting for a G1 oled ?
Would the WIDE option on color gamut for Lg OLED enable BT2020 vs auto? If the source content is mastered in PS3, why does it change and look more saturated when set to WIDE? is that some kind of internal algorithm?
Rec.2020 is absolutely necessary if the source content is recorded in that color space. Forcing Rec.2020 in settings is stupid... leave it in auto. It's a color space that exists for a reason, and your TV should auto adjust to it when it is needed, ONLY when it is needed. It is a much broader and superior color space that is rarely used outside of BBC Nature videos like Planet Earth II and others, or actual Dolby Vision demos, but it is outstanding. Soon more and more content will be mastered in Rec.2020 and you will see its benefits more often. For now, having the capability is a good thing, so you're ready for it when it starts to pour in.
So it means we need rec 2020 monitors to grade on -> produce rec 2020 mastered content -> upload to a rec 2020 supported platform-> consume on a rec 2020 TV. It has to start with the monitor. That said, I’ve seen videos edited in rec 2020 on TH-cam shown with the HDR tag (e.g. Links TV’s hdr content), since there doesn’t exist a rec 2020 monitor, it’s not really rec 2020? (And does TH-cam support rec 2020 as a platform?)
This video made my brain explode. Wonderful.
Here's my question: The fact that bt2020 allows to capture more shades of green could represent the reason for which movie studios are not going to use this in the future? I mean, the "green issue" could be a problem with all the massive green screen usage? I was thinking that maybe shooting a film with green screen through a source color space that is so so sensitive to green shades could be a problem. Just a curiosity, I'm not even sure that these two aspects (green screen scenes and the color space used in the source) are linked... Thank you anyway, great job!
I am getting the old 3D feeling from when all manufacturers said: *"You need this NAOW!"*
Question... How come your glasses don't have lenses?
Great find!
Honestly, I saw the first part of your video comming within 2 minutes.
Not that I claim to be super smart...
Again we all are beeing mislead by TV manufacturers.
:>(
I wonder if under normal circumstances our eyes are capable of seeing the difference between P3 and BT2020....?
You are not mislead more than you allow. It's lack of knowlage that is the issue. And manufactures love to exploit that..
There is quite a big difference between 8bit vs 10bit color (SDR vs HDR standards)
What's the point ?
If you provide your own home movie 6K 8K etc
For one's own viewing perfection. Doesn't have to be from a dvd or movie house.
Commented half way through so forgive if I missed something.
Having an excess capacity helps to future proof. If they devise a 'fold-in' and 'expansion' algorithm (ala Dolby, MQA) or decide to start mastering into the larger volume available you don't have to swap out.
Currently useless but POTENTIALLY beneficial.
Wishful thinking? I have a 2015 high end Samsung that I can’t even get Disney+ on!! By the time there is any improvement in colour mastering, they’ll probably make it compatible with brand new TVs only!!!! Just look at how Samsung has downgraded its 4K range to try and persuade people to buy 8K this year.
@@ipodimusprime3368 Buy the most advanced , reasonably priced, products and stay content for as long as possible. I look at 8K and laugh. When I was younger my vision could be adjusted (I wear glasses) to 20/12, 20/10. Even then I would not be able to differentiate between 4K and 8K at any reasonable distance, one that would allow me to see most of the screen easily.
one thing i've learned recently is that we actually see a LOT of ultraviolet color. i've bought my first anti-UV lenses and the world looks a lot more "dead" through it. more greenish. missing colors, specially purple hues. it honestly looks like these lenses has a mild built-in "piss filter" on them. BUT! that's only on sunlight, or incandescent sources. they literally make no indoors at night. our artificial light sources pretty much don't emit UV anymore. since it's the red cone that majorly detects UV, followed by the blue cone, we could just fake those colors with straight purple on screens. but do we? i don't know...
I got lots of blurays and every time i watch Lost it just blows up my mind in therms of colors and details there is no other film ever produced with such a skin tones and deep deep colors. Lost is just 1080p but simply stands above anything no matter what resolution or whatever they're using.
Most movie theaters use 2k resolution, which is slightly better than 1080p.
If you want a new movie for testing, The Call of the Wild seems to have been mastered in BT.2020 (and native 4K). A lot of green in that movie. :)
I am curious how this topic relates to the quality of smart pad and smart phone screens? When not in front of my living room TV, I watch a lot of content on my old iPad Air or on my iPhone X.
I watched this on both of those, especially pausing on the very green examples, and could not see a difference. But that raised the question whether this meant Both screens use current technology, or if the TH-cam content itself is being streamed in P3 or BT.2020 or any other gamut better than what an older iPad Air screen can handle.
Very informative video. Thank you! But if I am not wrong the Technicolor movies, no matter how old they were, did have enough color information to cover the Rec 2020 specification. They were however too expensive and eventually substituted by cheaper and faster chemical processes. Funny to think that we might soon be seen colors no one ever saw in pretty old movies; a range of colors that we will be unable to see in more recent films, no matter how modern our TVs are. In any case, apart from any truth, there is a ton of marketing in the whole thing, as your presentation made clear.
If lack of content were a valid reason not to get a better TV we'd still be using black and white tube TV's.
I have the LEGO movie 🍿 on repeat! All day
So the scenes that take advantage of it are fairly rare, but even if movies were mastered in it how noticeable is it in those scenes? If it's like the 4k versus 8k test and very hard to tell the difference it's still not going to matter compared to something like contrast. The contrast difference between OLED and LCD is easily noticeable in almost any scene, and scenes that really take advantage of it are fairly common.
We should be pushing for higher frame-rates there's significant benefit to going beyond 24fps motion quality at low frame-rates is absolute garbage.
Rubbish
Been using motion interpolation for awhile, cranked up to max settings, and I gotten used to it, whenever I switch back to 24fps I really notice the lag. I noticing artifacts here and there, but it's a necessary sacrifice.
Gemini Man at 120Hz in the theater LOOKED fucking amazing.
Sorry but i don't enjoy soap opera effect on movies. They are supposed to look cinematic.
Very informative video and something that I have know to be the case for a while b/c of my video production background. Now, when it comes to games, they can be mastered differently. The Windows HDR mode standard does allow for BT. 2020 so I wonder if the difference is more visible in this medium with some titles that have a decent HDR implementation. This would be a great comparison to do actually :)
Most video editing software doesn't support rec.2020. Davinci Resolve just added this to 16.2, so it is coming, just not very fast.
Thank you for that info. This MAKES IT EVEN WORSE. One of the most popular color grading software can't even render in 2020 and we've been buying 2020 capable TVs for years now.
Premiere Pro has been supporting BT2020 editing for a long time afaik
Agree and not. Dolby format expend color space to device color space. But I love movies not because of color space, I don't care. The story is more important, even comfortable place/couch more preferred than wider space. Some minnor color shifts not a problem - only marketing.
Capitalism loves to move on from product to product without ever fleshing out any of them. As soon as things get too good and cheap, they have to be killed off. Nearly 100 years since the beginning of the tv and the crt still has a niche unsatisfied by any modern product. 11 ish years since the krp-500m and it's still comparable to modern high end tvs, even better in many ways. Nearly everything is still rec709 and 1080p or lower, we still don't even have that much 4k or hdr content and now they are pushing 8k(and next 16k of course).
And pushing Rec.2020 - charging a little bit more for each of these "upgrades" until it all adds up to a $2,000 TV.
@@stopthefomo Funny how the "mud pie" argument(used to argue against planned economy) comes up in market economy. Thanks for talking sense, respect.
Capitalism is why you even can have these many TVs on the market.
@@TheCaptainhowdy11 No, neither capitalism nor any other mode of production is the reason we have stuff. Labor is. Did capitalism light the first man-made fire? No, a human did that by working. Capitalism(like its predecessor feudalism) is just a rung on the ladder of history, and we have to keep climbing.
How many 4K tv's do they have in N Korea ??
Superb video! Really enjoyed and Learned a lot. My view on colour gamuts has really changed. What colour gamuts do PS4 Pro games use?
Definitely depends on the developer. Email the game developer company and I'm sure they'll respond. But remember, just because it's in a BT2020 container does not mean they actually use BT2020 color, so be specific when asking if they are actually utilizing BT2020 color, not just the container to hold RGB color space.
Yep cheers!
In the future BT2100 (same primaries rec2020) will encompass the "ideal" Pointer's gamut.
I think the point is future proofing. Manufacturers will make capable technology before its completely in use by an industry. 2020 is the direction and when films are produced in 2020 it will be important to have a TV that can properly display it.
This sold me on getting the X800M2 4k player. Reviewers complained it wasn't doing BT2020 in Dolby Vision so I dismissed it looking at the LG90. Then noticed in reviews many LG90 owners were ditching their players for the X800M2 because it looked better on their flag ship TVs (CX, Q90, A8H) Now it is making more sense after you pointed this out. Why waste resources on something that won't be noticed if you can focus on other specs which is the route Sony took with it's X800M2.
So, basically using bt.2020 on dci-p3 mastered movies should have 0 affect, since dci-p3 lays within bt.2020. However, if the source actually is bt.2020, you’ll get more color. So there wouldn’t be any harm using bt.2020 when seeing content in dci-pi3.
However, I’ve noticed some movies do look a little bit different when switching between dci-p3 and bt.2020. For example, colors look more natural in bt.2020 from Disneyplus on Enchanto. Whereas DCI-p3 has more saturated colors.
As for video games, most video games that use HDR implement bt.2020 and DCI-P3 shouldn’t be used when playing video games in HDR. You’ll notice a massive shift in color when using bt.2020 vs dci-p3.
For example, Spider-Man looks more realistic in bt.2020 on PS5, and Anakins lightsaber in Battlefront 2 has a more natural blue. The green grass in Forza Horizon 5 has a more natural red green, and a less candy green, in bt.2020.
In Microsoft Flight Simulator, bt.2020 allows us to see a more sky blue color, while dci-p3 has a more saturated blue.
I would say always use bt.2020 if your TV has a high percentage coverage of the this color space. Watching movies in bt.2020 shouldn’t have too much of a difference, colors will shift ever so slightly if it’s in dci-p3. Since video games mostly are mastered in bt.2020, if it’s HDR, you’ll get the full range of colors that the developers worked on
Wow I didn't even know you were back. I legit dind't see any videos being recommended or in my subscription section until today with this video. I looked at your videos and it looks like after you recovered your channel back the views went down drastically. Maybe you should contact the youtube and see what's going on? I Feel like the youtube AI is not making your videos discoverable. maybe it still thinks your channel account is hacked?
I did ask TH-cam, and it responded that even after restoring the channel, it has to reset ALL MY ALGORITHMS as if this was a brand new channel - I basically have to re-earn all my views without the benefit of past videos and my subscriber base!
I had the same thing happen, it took me searching for the channel to start getting it in my feed again. I don't want the bell icon because I don't want it to notify me, I just want it in my subscriptions.
same thing happened to me
Question Fomo; now that HDMI 2.1 tvs are becoming the standard (for sure by 2021), when do you think we will get 12 bit panels? DV is mastered in 12 bits so it would be awesome to finally see DV in it's full capacity.
You are kidding right? Firstly, 10bit panels are only just breaking into the market. (Most TVs are 8bit + FRC).
Second, HDMI 2.2 is slowly being added to TVs this year.
We have a very long wait for 12bit
Roger Halt just breaking in? Might want to do your homework before commenting. I had the Samsung ks8000 back in 2016 and that was a 10bit panel. I have a 2017 Oled and it’s a 10bit panel. The higher end tvs have had 10 bit panels since at least 2016 hence my question about 12 bit panels. Ive never heard of hdmi 2.2, you must mean hdmi 2.1
12 bit should be important if you have thundera eye. Kkk
Also the wider the gamut the more bits you need - for bt2020 you really need 12bit panels... bit is the number of colors within the given color spectrum, that number remains the same no matter if you are in bt2020 or rec709, so if you have more colors to cover over a wider gamut but your tv is only capable of 8 bit there will be more banding - it is like stretching pixels.
more bit = more colors / more gamut = more colors but they are not mutually exclusive.
So you say that if my TV it's only 8 bit and I play games content on HDR in bt 2020 (the nowadays HDR games are mastered in bt2020) I will have color banding?. It's better to have color space to auto instead of native for Samsung for example since native it's dcp3 color gamut instead of the 709 that Auto option use in my 8 bit TV?, will this get rid of banding?.
@@ADISTOD3MUS If your TV is an 8-bit panel and you're attempting to display content that is mastered in a wider color gamut like BT.2020, you may indeed experience some color banding. This is because the TV's 8-bit panel is limited in the number of colors it can display, and the wider color gamut extends beyond this range. When the TV tries to map these excess colors, it can result in visible banding, where smooth gradients in the image become chunky steps of color change.
As for setting your color space to 'auto' or 'native' on your Samsung TV, it could potentially help. By default, the 'Auto' setting should adjust the color space to match the source. If your content is mastered in Rec.709, setting the TV to 'Auto' should align with that and could reduce banding since the source and the display are using the same color gamut. On the other hand, if you select 'Native', the TV will try to utilize its full color capabilities regardless of the source. On a Samsung TV, 'Native' typically represents the DCI-P3 color gamut, which is wider than Rec.709 but not as wide as BT.2020.
However, color banding is not only dependent on color gamut but also depends on the bit depth of the content, the processing capability of your TV, and even the quality of the content itself. It's also important to note that while adjusting the color space may help to mitigate banding, it may not completely eliminate it, especially if you're viewing HDR content that's mastered for a 10-bit or 12-bit panel on an 8-bit TV.
Ultimately, the best setting can often be a matter of personal preference, so I would recommend trying both 'Auto' and 'Native' to see which one looks better to your eyes.
I still use a 51" plasma tv which to me is still the best in my opinion.No eyestrain,fantastic 3 dimensional like contrast and wonderful smooth motion.When this finally dies hopefully microled will be available and be nearly as good.
Me too, well for my parents at least. They haven't complained one bit about their 2006 Kuro Plasma, still going strong.
Oled is better, believe me. I have 2 Panasonic plasmas and a Panasonic Oled and the picture is better in every category.
@@pietroscarpa2384
Nope. OLED has excess film Judder compared to plasma, and current LG & Samsung OLED Black frame insertion only provides 650p Motion resolution with a 5ms persistence. Some plasma's could actually achieve 1080p motion, with a 2ms persistence. A CRT by comparison has 1ms persistence, meaning, Zero motion blur.
OLED's glaring weakness is obviously motion, especially 'base' motion. Too much blur and only 300p motion resolution, it's pretty much trash imo. Gaming at 120fps, & using max Black frame insertion for SDR Movies/TV is the ticket, but neither are perfect but they do wonders compared to gaming at 60fps and 'not' using BFI for streaming.
My Panasonic S60 plasma doesn't have the greatest motion either mind you and is considered to have average plasma motion, with it's motion persistence and motion resolution being in the same ball park as the LG C1's MotionPro 'High', but again, far less judder on plasma, no 'out of box' black crushing and NO severe BFI shadow detail crushing or noticeable flicker on whites unlike the C1...
A Samsung S95C/S90C QD-OLED with it's black crush corrected & BFI shadow detail crushing eliminated from a professional calibration will be the next TV i get. I doubt Samsung has increased BFI motion beyond 650, nor will the persistence improve, because most people who buy TV's dont seem to give a flying squirrel about motion. As long as it's eye exploding bright and thin as paper.
@Fido Dido how about Panasonic Oled tv's? On HDTV test, they did a comparison with plasma, and the results were the same like plasma.
@@pietroscarpa2384
Panasonic OLED is only available in Europe & JPN unless I'm mistaken. Either way, I do remember Vincent mentioning in his review(can't remember which model) that it's BFI resolved 1080p motion resolution, just like LG's CX(although it's brightness was clobbered down to like 70 nits at best which is pretty bad) Not sure how many nits the panny has left when using it's BFI though OR what the motion persistence is.
Even if it could resolve 2ms persistence @ 1080p motion, there's still excess film judder. And that's really the ONLY redeemable quality of plasma Vs a QD-OLED with lets say amazing BFI that could pull off what the
panasonic OLED is doing.
I was under the impression 35 mm movies had a colour gamut wider than P3? Closer to BT2020?
Does this mean it will display less P3 Colors? Since the gamut will be divided by the same quantity ? BT2020 divided by a billion vs P3/rec709 divided by a billion.
Agree most people won't notice color differences but when you have a non WCG(wide color gamut) TV next to one that does like my old Vizio E and new Vizio M7 with WCG pretty noticeable especially in nature shows greens, sunsets with deep reds, and or course flesh skin tones look more natural. Also for older TV's, that can't hit 100 P3, gamut or tone mapping more important to make colors match what they should look like when they were mastered. Sony and LG would think do better job in final color accuracy than Vizio in this are since they have more advanced algorithms not to mention the latest LG OLED TV's use built-in 3D Lut tables that assures the most accurate rendering of both SDR and HDR picture content. One problem with OLED I've seen from YT video's though is that have hard time hitting deep reds since that's the color that tends to wear out quickest on an OLED display so you get more of an orange/red than true bright red. So IMO not pointless if it ends up giving us all better TV's in the end with better color accuracy for all existing non BT.2020 content :) Anyways, found this online from Netflix anyways, bit more confirmation that all their content mastered and stored in P3 dunno about VUDU. "We ask that monitors are set to and masters are stored in P3-D65 color space, rather than Rec.2020, since P3 is typically the largest realizable and accurate color gamut between different mastering monitors." partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000622507-Can-I-work-in-Rec-2020- Seems even mastering monitors studios use to make these movies don't agree on the colors and seems old Plasma tech still better to use to compare against so seems TV manufacturers still haven't perfected colors enough to match Plasma unless someone already did a video on that LOL www.provideocoalition.com/nab-panel-the-future-of-hdr-in-cinema/
Great educational roundup on colour gamut FOMO. Be good to see what you think between two TV's showing same movie displaying P3 vs 2020.
If only I can find a movie shot in 2020 (besides Lego Batman!). I'm thinking HDR video games utilizing 2020 may do the trick.
For 8k if you sit closer like for gaming then it will be noticeable. 8k tv's really should all be for gaming since that's where it matters and they should be curved. What would be the issue with having a standard that goes from UV to the IR? We can see tiny amounts of UV and IR, correct? Perhaps cameras could capture UV and IR and display them as violet or red with dithering/shimmering/rainbow noise or some other noise variant added to aesthetically signify their presence to match the scene.
Another crazy idea i was just thinking when you said movies are mastered in P3 not rec2020, i bet an AI chip built into the TV could on the fly transform the P3 image into rec 2020. Thats how those sorts of AI work they imagine data that was not there in the first place.. infact this upscaling software i have for single images called gigapixel AI, can turn a JPG into a TIFF with a wider color gamut. It guesses what might be there and puts it in, convincingly because its been trained on good high resolution source data like raw images.
The tyranny of the DEFAULT. The hdr10 "default" will hold back display for a long time. Dolby will live in my heart.
It's probably more the manufacturing companies that are to blame as we need 12 bit panels to see it. Studios won't give us proper BT2020 until they implement it for TV's. Brightness is always improving so the 4000 to 10000 nit mastering is slowly getting there that we can see
taking into account that the color space also has a dark-light dimension, is there a benefit between Rec2020 and P3 on that dimension for HDR content? (this would probably apply for all colours, not just those outside P3 - those greens, light blues, red and magenta that are outside P3 in the 2D rendition of the colour space)
HDR content was designed with the Rec2020 color space in mind. P3 is more like this transition color space we are in right now, that was designed for movie theaters and brought to the home, but not originally intended for HDR.
Wow! Well explained, man! I’ve been watching most of your tv review videos recently and the way you explain things really helped me on coming to a decision which tv to buy within my budget. I’m from the Philippines and I am looking at tcl 65” tvs. I’m comparing 65 P8M and 65 P8S. So far, the difference that I see is that 65 P8S has WCG, HDR10+, and not sure about the contrast ratio. Difference in price is around $150. I’ve been thinking if it’s worth to spend more for these differences. Hope you can help me more and also opinions from others who can see this, i will appreciate it if you can help me decide.
Thanks again!
Thanks for the video. Is this also true for video games?
Everything is pointless Lol. 8K wide color gamut etc. I for one I'm working with 8K and is breathtaking.
Are you working on a 6K monitor? I'm waiting for Blackmagic to release their 8K pocket camera but then realized my video editing PC would have to be upgraded too. I'm hoping to capture some 8K detail when I start reviewing and comparing with 8K TVs this year.
@@stopthefomo I'm working with an 8K Dell monitor and an Alienware PC plus I have the Q900RB from Samsung using the HDMI port 2.1 with another Alienware. Most PCs at reasonable price can edit 8K content now. Animating in 8K you need a powerhouse though. RED 8K files play and edit very well with an Alienware PC at around 2500$ USD. I'm eager to watch your 8K reviews in the near future. Thx.
What about 8k for the windows desktop? I'm specifically thinking of the nonstandard sitting close to a screen scenario. Think 4 4k's.
Pointless.
@@MASKOAA I'm not so sure., thats what I'm wondering. I have a feeling if I told people I bought a 40" 4k monitor I'd not get too much push back. So why not a 80" 8k? My apps would certainly be fine in 8k, and it could be used for close in app usage and movies/games (in 4k) from 10 feet. I had the opportunity to use two brands of ~around 80" touchscreens and fell in love. (they were 4k of course) Now I can't afford touch screens, but tvs have become so cheap especially when compared to monitors....
@@billschannel1116 Get whatever you want don't worry about others opinion
@@therealhard8times I don't care about declarative statements of opinion, but rather I was hoping for a gem of reason that broadened the landscape of what I consider. (which is why this channel is my favorite) So specifically here I was hoping to read why it was pointless.
@@billschannel1116 definitely not pointless if you have a PC that can do 8k
This is why I went with the LG G3 instead of the S95C. I get a brighter screen with Dolby Vision while having less Rec2020 coverage than the Samsung but my UHD discs wouldn't take advantage of the wider color gamut anyway.
Ultra HD 4K bluray movies are mastered in DCI P3 and is contained in a Rec.2020 container because that's the color space for UHD. No consumer displays currently covers 100% of Rec. 2020 color space.
Hello from Jamaica FOMO. This is off topic but why is it that U.S. television networks all still broadcast at 720p or 1080i? I've had 1080p televisions since 2008, and got a Samsung Q70 in January in "glorious" 4k that has to upscale tv channels. The only times I see native 4k are when I get 4k feeds from the internet (movies and demo material).
Isn't broadcast TV (not HBO, S howtime, etc on Direct TV or Netflix ) going to catch up?
How is it then, that when i switch between DCI-P3 and BT2020 Color gamut in my TV settings, the colors change significantly?
This happens regardless of what source or type of content I watch, be it a PS5 game, Netflix or TH-cam..
Explain that to me?
You realize why all TV's are always left in Native color gamut as manufacturer default setting?
Because it provides the widest possible color space obtainable with the TV, it will literally show every color it can possibly produce, at the expensive of accuracy.
I believe it's the case, that regardless of the mastering (signal/source) the TV itself can increase the width of the color gamut, simply by choosing BT2020 or Native gamut.
But it will not be true to the source.
You can take an SDR BT.709 signal and on-the-fly convert it into HDR and wide color gamut, which I do on a daily basis.
Is it so far-fetched to believe you can change DCI-p3 into BT2020?
Isn't there some ultra geek who can shed some light on this, please reply 😜
You just blew my mind off my shoulders with this video!!! Awesome
Hi FOMO,I enjoy your insightful and factual insights on all things TV related (and more! ) You are gifted in how you present your topics and I'm glad to have found your channel.
Interesting to see the current pointlessness on going above P3 colour when considering a TV purchase for watching Blu ray movies.
I'm wondering though if rec2020 TV's are pointless if the TV is used as a PC monitor instead of a Blu ray display? (I use my QLED primarily as a PC gaming monitor and wonder if the same rule applies to PC gaming? I have no idea what colour gamut video games are mastered in and if rec 2020 TV's would display PC game colours any better than what we have now. I have found selecting RGB in the highest output colour depth (8 bpc at 1440p) in the nvidia control panel looks best but have no idea where these settings sit in regards to P3 and rec2020. I can say however that colour looks brilliant on the QLED and if this is as good as it gets I have no complaints whatsoever. As for those 'not quite as inky as OLED blacks' and 'slight loss of detail in specular highlights' well, that's another issue ; )
Whatever the hardware manufacturers and content creators need to do to get all of the human skin tones right is much more important to me than getting additional shades of green and blue.
Green scenes on my H9F are really insane so any forest scenes I always notice a difference.
Sounds like you shoulkd calibrate it if it's only the green.. All colors should be more realistic when the content is 10bit and the panel also is 10bit.
Great Video, thanks for the info!! But i wonder... What about video games? The current consoles were marketed with that spec (Wide Color Gamut) Do the games really use it?
Video games are the reason the BT2020 color space is a factor for TVs. HDR games are mastered in BT2020 which is why only in Video games is it ever necessary to turn your color saturation higher than the default settings.
Curious FOMO, does this video hold true since this video was posted?
Great video. I’m a gamer. Is the bt2020 color apace used for them more often? Is it becoming more used? Do you think the new consoles will have a positive effect on that being used more?
I'm hoping HGIG initiative with game developers, game card makers and TV manufacturers result in more impressive BT2020 content for sure. But nobody has investigated how much of BT2020 is being used in games currently.
Me a Man of culture, We need Shrek Films in BT 2020
I have Sony Bravia 4k TV and let Me tell you when you apply bt.2020 the colors literally pop out of the screen especially green and red. Your 100% correct, if you put bt.2020 on p3, you have to reduce color intensity.I love messing with it on different movies.
Obviously you care nothing about color accuracy
@@tac6044 obviously you didn't understand what I was trying to say.
The reason we are sensitive to Greens is we needed to see predators in the wild, to help distinguish from natural camouflage.
Fargo season 2.
Hi Fomo, so should i use native color gamut for gaming? I have lg c2
Colour space is hard. Ultimately, green cone sensitivity overlaps both red and blue cone sensitivity, so you need additional green subpixels to do a good job. 3 green subpixels would be good; slightly chartreuse green, slightly cyan green and something inbetween those.
What about video game?
Most important thing... next gen console PS5 and powerful tv... best solution for gaming
@@trumpameri1638 LG C9 or CX is the way to go for gaming in 2020. (Yes I know there's POTENTIAL to get burn-in IF you don't take care of it properly).
@@PSYCHOV3N0M yes i know what u saying... but for gaming is most important thing to have strong panel.. and play without worry about anything.... people who turn on PS5 and play 2,3 hours r maybe ok but real gamers i don't think so....
Perfect explanation. I was looking for this information for a few years even Rtings don't gives this information. Thanks
17:40 Great rant! But *I would not say more shades of green* (thats quantization), but maybe *larger shades of green* ? Also, in theory you'll need higher quantization levels to not have artifacts like banding get worse when going to Rec.2020, since there's a larger area to cover... I don't know if 10-bit is going to be enough with PQ-HDR..?
On the TCL 6 series. What is Native and Auto color space. Cause while watching cable tv Auto looks more vibrant and brighter while Native looks more dull yet more natural but while watching on Netflix/Prime/YT 4k/DV/HDR Native looks more vibrant and brighter like it's the opposite so I've just went back to Native color space setting what the TV comes defaulted too.
Just a silly idea here, probably totally pointless but when you said tvs need to some how have an improved filter to get the rec 2020 colors, it made me think of those Encroma glasses that color blind people wear and i wondered if TV manufacturers could sell special glasses that have the filter in them so you see better colors on your tv?
The native color gamut on the lg c2 which one is that ?
I have a question. I know it's subjective. I want the most immersive experience possible. I'm trying to choose between a 75" Vizio P Series Quantum X and an 85" TU-8000. Thoughts? What is more immersive in your opinion, excellent picture or a massive screen?
Excellent picture
Thats a same problem as with audio 20 years ago. Whole industry is specialized to some standard and no one (wide public) care.
Lets hope WICKED is in Wide Colour Gamut ;)
22:00 Planet Earth 2 is already in rec 2020, so maybe try comparing that on your Sony and Vizio :)
I suppose movies set in jungles could use the extra green: Avatar, Jumanji etc. I'm sure James Cameron is looking to use as wide a colour gamut for the avatar sequels as he can. Sports broadcasts often contain lots of green too, and with time they will be broadcast in HLG with rec 2020 colors. In fact TV stations are already testing production of HLG material, so while movies may stick with P3 for now, we will eventually see a lot things on TV in rec 2020, and Hollywood won't want to be worse than TV.
I just want to see the hubble image of Andromeda on an 8k oled.
Andromeda what exactly? You're not talking about Mass Effect Andromeda are you? That game on PC supports Dolby Vision.
Me thinks my man is talking about the actual galaxy
I believe this color-space, along with 8K, is the same conundrum as almost all of new technology. Think about when 4K TV's came out, people said "That's a waste of money, there's not even 4K content for your expensive TV". That statement was true, however if nobody buys 4K TVs then what point is there in companies upgrading to release 4K content? Someone has to go first, either the manufacturers or the content providers and it usually has to be the manufactures. To put into context, back in the day when TH-cam was only 1080p, why on Earth would someone buy a new 4K camera that cost a lot of money (at the time) and spend more time encoding and editing the video (much larger file size) if nobody could watch it in 4K anyways? It wasn't until 4K displays started coming out (TV's) that TH-cam started offering 4K video and then content creators started making 4K videos. "Someone has to go first, either the manufacturers or the content providers and it usually has to be the manufactures." No company wants to throw money away at another HD DVD vs BluRay so it's best to wait and see where people's money is going.
Another example, USB-C was finalized in 2014 and it still took three years before a major phone manufacturer like Samsung used it in the Galaxy S8. USB-C was expensive to manufacture (it's gotten cheaper but today it's still relatively expensive). If you bought a computer with USB-C along with USB-C chargers and USB-C cables what would be the point if you can't connect a USB-C device? It wasn't untill the last year or two that laptop manufacturers started adding the port across their product lines. Computer and phone manufacturers are reluctant to spend money on new technology that people can't use and accessory producers are reluctant to make devices and adapters people have nothing to use them on.
Although I hate Apple for many reasons, this is one thing they do well... They force adoption of new tech regardless of the backlash. Remember when the 30pin changed to Lightning? People were mad that all of their current accessories were, for the most part, useless and had to be replaced. But because they had a large and loyal user-base people still bought the new phone en masse and soon after release it went from a handful of accessories to every-thing changing over rapidly until, generally speaking, no-one produced 30pin products anymore because only a small group of people still used them.
I agree in the sense that I personally don't buy products that I can't fully utilize, such as that 2020 color gamut. I didn't buy my first 4K TV till 2016 when there was enough content being released and streamed in 4K... However, there's no reason for the movie industry to use the newer color gamut on home release products if there isn't a market for it. So for the time being, TV manufacturers are going to keep improving on their tech to stay competitive and eventually content will follow to support it once the market, decides which features it cares about and adopts with their purchase.
Obviously there are caveats, as there are large consortiums that band together to make changes together to move the market in a certain direction, think of HDMI and how it became the standard defacto connection for pretty much all consumer products that send or receive an audio+video signal. It didn't take years for this to happen, the HDMI standard and digital TV's were hand-in-hand, although in the transition period they still had S-Video, Composite, Components, etc. so consumers could still connect their existing equipment but eventually and new devices came to market and everyone started upgrading that at this point in time, younger individuals don't even know what S-Video is because it essentially is useless now and has died out.
I'm of course not saying that manufacturers don't peddle bullshite specs and features to try and lure consumers into buying their products, I just feel that this newer color gamut is merely at the early-adopter tax phase and once it starts becoming a 'standard' feature then the movie industry/movie distribution companies may start to release content using the wider color space. Movies however are a special industry in which the content creators generally dictate the direction based on their style and vision; However as new tools become available we see them start to utilize new capabilities in their art-form. As such I believe 8K along with BT.2020 will eventually become the 'standard' eventually but it will take a bunch of rich early adopters to advance manufacturing to normal consumer prices until we see wide adoption of the new tech in people's homes and industry to take advantage of it.
Welcome back btw... I love your videos and I'm glad to see you're still making them! Looks like I need to re-smash that subscribe and get caught up on the last two months of videos ^_^
Great points. I for one wouldn't mind Netflix requiring BT.2020 grading.
@@stopthefomo Gratci Signor, I too hope that they start utilizing the new color space. Streaming services are a great place to start since consumers don't need extra hardware.
I sincerely appreciate you taking to time to read my comment. (Even though there are a number of grammatical errors and a couple of butchered sentences at the end lol) Although I didn't intend for it, it reads a little 'preachy'... Lord knows I'm not one to stand at a podium lol... Keep up the great work.
I still say that, 4K is useless without HDR. HDR is really is what makes a difference between 1080p and 4K. We still have very little content in 4K. The masses are dumb and TV manufacturers know that, that's why when 8K comes out, they will shift you to 16K and you will have dopes claiming they can tell the difference on their 55 inch sets from 10 feet away.
@@jkairi4 lenscrafters.com
I hate when people say this
Just like how some people said back when 1080p was becoming a thing
HDR does make a good difference
But guess what a 4K HDR TV will beat out a 1080P HDR TV
The extra details in resolution allows the HDR to look better due to better and smoother gradations of the color space used at 10 bit vs 8 bit
Hi mr Fomo; is your vest bullet proof..?...thank u
I'm glad Vincent Teoh decided to make his own personal channel.
😂😂😂 That's how I felt a few months ago when I discovered Fomo. I was like is that Vincent? Or does Vincent have a brother?
The live colour option on high gives rec709 content a rec2020 look on Sony TVs with the X1U chip.
I've tried this on the z9f 75 and the effect does a really good job upscaling the colours.
I set live color on my Sony oled on high too, and the colors look amazing.
what color space does samsungs native space use? DCI or RGb? i feel it’s DCI and i’m trying to make my sony tv look like samung colors because that’s what i like yet DCi on sony tvs have yellow whites and it’s annoying id rather keep the sony as motion for games and movies and stuff is way better then smaung but samungs native color space looks bright and colorful without over saturation to much, yet my sony x95j ether looks washed out on auto and yellow whites on DCI, browns look somewhat pinkish when it’s set to AdobeRGB so i give up LOL
Live color and reality creation is why I went with Sony a9g
Hi, can explain what 100+% rec709 means? Does it mean the area of the traingle is x% larger?
100% rec. 709 is a very OLED color space from way back when and covers all the colors you see on a TV purchased 7 years ago. Today, there's a bit more color as everything is filmed in DCI-P3 (wider color gamut) as part of HDR content. Honestly, 709 is fine for people watching everyday content in SDR