@@mohammadrajput9550 now is your time brother. Get some research in, get basic basic basic tools and just start with some small stuff. Shelves, garden bed, anything. the path is yours to carve and whatnot.
Loved this video Peter, I am an experienced woodworker, and I understand load distribution and mechanical strength, peel and shear, etc, but you covered this so beautifully for anyone to understand, the Slapstick was a bonus, I particularly loved the way you looked at your Guide track after it hit you on the head, as if you were mentally willing it not to happen again, and then it Did 😂, if I had a pound for every time something like that happened to me in the last thirty years, I would be well off, but at least in my case such minor incidents happened in the private, not on camera for all to appreciate 😊 - Keep up the good work- Julie
Peter is a consummate professional. Great explanations with equally great demonstrations to illustrate the point. I loved how he took the time to square up his work piece as he was nailing it together while knowing he was going to pull it apart immediately. It's that attention to details (even ones that don't matter in this case) that leads to such fine craftsmanship. Very well done video.
Hi there Phartan 117 . Yes I agree with you , Peter is the real thing . I have been doing this sort of work for fifty years and that before one srarts with any project it is a good idea to think about the possibilities that the finish product is going to be exposed to , this is the mechanics of the structure . Then , of course , is the aesthetics which is quite important . With all this in mind one can build good and functional , not only cabinets but , all sorts of things . Keep it clean , keep it simple . And in the end you will find that you will develop your own style . Cheers!
Same here! I figured "well obviously the top should sit on the sides, because if the top has stuff on it then it'll be heavy and the sides will provide extra support". I'm very glad I watched this before I actually started making anything.
And if you want to use it as a table (upper side to support things), is it better to put that piece of wood over the wood side, isn't it? One question more (thanks in advance), if you want to link 2 pieces of wood (i.e. 2 cm wide each one) like in the video, what must the screw length be to ensure that they will have a perfect and resistant union? Is there any rule about it? Thanks a lot!
watched for the info, subscribed because you kept the part where that track fell on your head, multiple times from multiple angles, so very relatable I love it. This makes so much sense and answered this question I often wondered about why things were the way they were. Also, that fact that wen you have shelves having them the same length as the top and bottom just has a better look about it as well. So it makes the sides look better and even the symmetry of the front looks better as well.
@@robertgibson5172 Hi. I did 20 cupboard, I fix a lots of cupboard, I learned static 24 years ago I never think like that. Good denonstrtation. Good for the first picture, when I saw the diffrent i was interresting what do u say to me. Good demonstration. Is important. Sometime we dont need to know everithing, but better. I copied the ikeaz,or kitchen cupboard what they made, because they have better experience. But Im fed up with the modern life, we use to much, and all cupboard not to strong, to much dust and oil very easily and everibody buy new and we use to much what we dont need. The human what thiking in a future we need to think. The cheapboard, not to strong, but we need... I looking for strong cover, because one piece cupboard door 60 pound is to much. The plastic and glur not to strong too... When the modern cupboard to expensive,,have a lots of space what we dont use,,when i made myself cupboard better, is fit. I looked for secret draw,,I made draw, but i want learn new option. Thank you. I think 5 years ago i saw u in some video, but not exactly I remember... Good video, Im subscribe.
I think it's important to determine whether the cabinet is compressed or tensioned to decide on the wanted assembly configuration. For a floor standing cabinet you'd be better off with the sides inside the top and bottom. The way loads are normally applied on standing cabinets causes compression to the cabinet instead of tension. In this scenario it would be like your first experiment, but with pushing the vertical piece down toward the workbench instead of pulling up like you did. That's far stronger because you don't rely on your fasteners to take the load at all. For wall hung cabinets it is indeed better to have the top and bottom inside just like you explained. for the aesthetics it also depends on the case, and for ease of production I absolutely agree with you. Great video.
Wouldn’t a cabinet under compression often have a separate top added to the carcass, as in a counter top or desk top, In which case top and bottom inside the sides remains a good solution?
@@CaptainofmyShed in case of an additional top, well In this case you have both and it's better of course, even though the bottom one won't take any significant load and therefore might be unnecessary. Don't forget the bottom piece, it still transfers the load from the sides to the feet. So you still benefit from setting up and cutting it to the outside dimensions. At this point it would make sense to also cut the top to the same measurements and benefit from the consistant appearance.
Thanks for the info! I came to ask about this because the video specified that it was for wall-hung cabinets, but what if mine were sitting on the floor? You answered my question. =)
I had a similar thought looking at the thumbnail. I thought it was a simple side table or bookshelf that would take load better under compression in the “post and lintel” style. That said I definitely learned something from watching and for that I subscribed👍
In a company I've worked for 9 years we usually worked with 45º cuts. Depending on the size of the furniture, we used some wooden "biscuits" joints (with carpenter glue) to mount it afterwards. It always worked pretty well
How are you hanging them? No way I’d trust a wall-hung cabinet with biscuited bevel joints unless they were on some very heavy fixings, personally. 🤷♂️👍
Love it when u r trying to pull the two bits of mdf apart and the fence falls on your head...twice!!! Nice to find a TH-camr speaking plain English and from the U.K. (not as I dislike all the US ones, but to taking in mm and U.K. suppliers etc is refreshing) Hitting the sub button... cheers mate 👍👍 🇬🇧
This was a big confidence booster. I have no experience with making cabinets, but I've seen it done, and it never struck me as being too complicated. At some point, I heard someone say cabinets were "the most technically complicated part of any building," and that gave me a lasting fear of trying. I see now that they are far more approachable than I ever realized.
When you see the shear load demo, where the metal nail is horizontal to gravity, it suddenly makes sense. I was always subconsciously imagining the forces on a box sitting on the ground when it seemed so intuitive to put the top board on top of two posts. Like stonehenge or house framing. Thanks for helping me see that differently with your demo. Now I can imagine gravity trying to pull the bottom of a box off the top board when it's hanging on a wall.
it depends if you use nails or screws rule of thumb: nails will rip out on axial load but don't sheer off tat easy - screws will not rip out on axial load but will sheer off with ease and yes, it is a bit more complicated than that
I made a tool cabinet that rolls on castors. I used full size base and top to give maximum vertical compression strength. The finished job is faced with commercial banner material. To date it has worked well. It was more hassle to fit shelves but I believe worth the effort.
Very helpful, making a mobile cart w/ drawers for my bandsaw and was musing over the carcass construction. Now I'm convinced - top and bottom go inside the side walls.
Great information.I’m 53 never built a cabinet in my life I fixed a few things I’m an auto mechanic.now I build refrigeration compressors but I never really dabbled in building stuff out of wood and I just purchased a cargotrailer I wanna convert into a tiny home just for fun/camping and what not so I’m trying to figure out what I need to make some cabinetry and a slide out bed etc.this was helpful thanks.
Nice video!!! I think that both metods have diferents advantages, in case of a kitchen cabinet with plastic legs and a huge piece of marble on the top "the above metod" i think that can suport this weight in a better way because is sitting on the sides and in your case the weight is on the screws or whatever you use in this join. In terms of aesthetics sometimes this cabinets goes under a final panels of with a clean finish (melamine,...) and so the screws are no longer visible. Anyhow good point on your explanation too. Keed your great work!!!
The heavy counter wouldn't rest on the screws because you're supposed to have a slight reveal so that the sides are in contact with the counter, not the top.
@@vapeurdepisse he means if the granite is sitting on the side panels as it should be, and the side panels are only supported by the fixings into the base panel, and the cabinet feet don’t sit under the side panels, then the weight of the granite would be on the fixings into the base panel. This is resolved by the cabinet feet being shaped to also support the side panels.
Great video as always. I however bet to differ on the stress test you conducted. The concern should be on the weight the inner board can bear before it fails and not trying to rip the carcass out. I believe the one set on top because it rests on the two side boards is much stronger. You make a good point with the aesthetics tough. Thank you for sharing.
ive been a custom cabinet builder for 35 years in midwest 🇺🇸 i use dados ,glue and blind nailing for finished ends on uppers . wall ends are butt joints side inside top and bottom glued micro pinned then pocket screwed together with solid wood backrails and screwing cleats its the real deal including solid hardwood frames also pocket screwed and raised panel doors and drawer fronts ,solid wood drawers
The only exception to this is with base units (floor level) where the lower corners should have the sides sitting on the base. Ideally, the cabinet feet should also be positioned as close as possible to the cabinet sides to provided support for all the weight that will be bearing on those sides (crockery, pots and pans, granite worktops, large Belfast sinks etc). To cover any unsightly joints, you can incorporate end panels into your design.
Only the lower corners? Is there a reason why you wouldn’t do the top the same way so everything is sitting on top of each other vertically? Also curious to hear whether Mr Millard also does his this way?
@@JameysVideos Many base units are not made with tops, and only have a couple of rails (horizontal components) between the tops of the sides (front and back), because there'll be a worktop of some sort being put on. And, these rails are only necessary to hold the sides at the correct distance apart while fixing the case to the frame, with the rear rail providing an edge to screw the top of the cabinet's back to. The worktop will be directly in contact with the tops of the sides, so as long as the sides are supported properly, there shouldn't be a problem.
Found this video really useful. I’m about to build a Dj console which is essentially a long shallow box. I’m planning this for the sides to go on top of the base as this will put less stress (no stress) on the screws. I’ll do the same with the front and back panels but the left and right sides will be attached on the outside. Then the top will go on for a nice smooth surface. I’m cutting the squares out to sink the decks and mixer in so they will be flush with the surface.
I was about to ask about screws and nails and how that would change which way to connect the cabinet together, but I see the next part is about screws and nails, will have to watch that now
Funny you should mention the algorithm... I haven't had any videos suggested for months, then this one shows up without me having to go looking. I wonder if it's because of the mention on sponsorship? 🤔
First channel i've ever subscribed to before even finishing their first video. You sir dont even need to ask for us to subscribe the pure value of the content is evident within 30 seconds.
Dear Peter, thank you for your videos - your personal style, openness, honesty about it all, knowledgeability, your undisturbed rest and clear considerations - really appreciated!
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to log back into an Instagram account? I stupidly lost the login password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Fabian Ryland Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out now. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
I loved the part where the board on your bench falls on you once, then you go back at it with renewed vigor and it almost falls on you a second time. Now THAT's dedication!
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations on having a sponsor for making this kind of series. Thanks for bringing physics into woodworking. It made it very understandable. 32 years ago I made particle board cubes. The back was made of plywood or hardboard. They were made to stand next and on each other. Since the 4 main parts were squares 30x30 cm. It wasn't a real cube. But when putting it together I put the top part ON the side parts. Wrong, or an exception to the rule? Some of the cubes are still "alive" and in use.
Not wrong at all Hans; as I say very specifically in the video, I'm talking about wall-hung cabinets here - though personally I'd still fit the top & base between the sides on a floor-mounted box, just for the additional benefits. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks for your comment. Way back then I didn't have any knowledge of woodworking. The pieces of 30x30 cm were cut in the store where I bought the whole sheets. Painting (and drying of the paint) took forever and the only tools I had was a drill, a drill standard, some drill bits and screwdriver bits. But it was fun making it. The additional benefits of doing it your way are obvious so I know how to do it in the future. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. A 101 video about making drawers I'd highly welcome. There are a lot of myths about that as well.
I am doing a DIY Wall Mounted Folding Table. I am doing exactly what you have explained. TH-cam is really amazing that it showed your informative video on this approach. Your explanation is very educative for hobbyist like me. Thanks a ton, Peter!!! 💗
I feel bad. Same here, but by pure laziness of not cutting different lengths for shelves Vs tops and bottoms, I did it how the vid suggests. Bum luck lol. I actually thought I was choosing a mechanically weaker option. Though these are stand alone shelves not a cabinet. So arguably the down force is. 😜
I cannot tell you how much I enjoy your videos Peter, they are intelligent, eloquent and direct. As a new woodworker I enjoy your content immensely. I will go to the Medite site and see how I can benefit from their products! Thank you.
Reasons 1, 2 and 3 shown - reason 0 is actually the important one: cabinets NEED to be all the same *height*. Differing widths, the eye doesn't notice - cabinets abut each other, micro-variations in width dont matter. But micro-variations is what you get, between sheets of board AND edging applications: in the trade, this is called "cabinet creep". For example: make cabinet of H600, W300. Let board thickness = t. Assume T=20mm for your calculations. Incorrectly made box (top+bot overpassing sides) has sides of H560. But T *actually* is 20.2mm - now your box is 0.4mm higher than your end panels you've cut/bought! Whereas with sides overpassing, that thickness defect *goes to the middle*, ie. the opening is reduced by that 0.4mm... But nobody's counting that - fingers feel unflush parts, eyes don't unsee and houseguests dont forget 😂😂😂 This is even more critical for BASE cabinets, as you need a dead-level surface for natural stone tops to sit upon. Else, trouble. And oven towers/stacked cabinets: cabinet creep quickly adds up to be +\- up to 2mm, as compared to bought-in end panels.
That's largely exaggerated. By the time the installer sets up the cabinets, you will definitely have some variation, with absolutely no consequence visually or structurally. The stone countertop will be just fine because the countertop installer uses shims anyway. Been there, done that.
@@vapeurdepisse never had a countertop installer use shims on my cabinets. And we're taking about upper cabinets as well. And sit-in-top cabinets. Been there, done this for 15years straight.
You’ve been doing this for 15 years and you assume the thickness of a material instead of actually measuring it and then doing your calculations with that number? Seems a very simple way to avoid the whole problem you described and was the first thing I learned day one on the job: “measure twice, cut once”.
There can be a 0.3mm variation between sheetgoods, just from the manufacturer's different batches. There can be that much variation in a sheet, even. Like everything, not all products are equal. Some processes have thickness checks built into them. For example, I double-sided nest about 40t of MDF p.a. As it's profiled on both the face and reverse, the thickness of the sheet is calipered for each sheet processed. However, for the other 120 tons of board on the single-sided line - software, fittings and construction method cover it all. I might only check the board thickness 3 times p. a.
That's how I was taught to build a cabinet, and I think it's the best way. If I'm making something that is floor standing and takes a lot of weight, I build this way and then add a top that overlaps the carcass sides. This spreads the load down through the sides, and if the load is substantial, I glue a thin base to the the bottom as well for extra strength. You did forget rule number one of woodworking though.....all through the video, I was waiting to see you stab your left hand on those protruding nails - I always pull out redundant pins immediately....I've punctured myself way too many times in the past. Looking forward to the rest of this series.
5 minutes into the video I see you sir using an ESTWING hammer...you surely worth your salt to be using such a high craftsman tool...Great respect to you and anybody who knows and works with an ESTWING hammer...👍👍👍👍now for the rest of the video which in it's self is very educational👏👏👏👏🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
This was so easy to follow and made so much sense along the way. Great explanation for a simple concept that I hadn't thought about but hope to build a vanity this year.
I've made cabinets like this before, but I used screws to fix them together. I didn't countersink them I filed them down and polished them. I thought the brass screws on birch ply looked really good. Can't wait to see what other methods you have next week!
It's funny, I ran test before building my cupboard for my stacked washer and dryer. I came the same conclusion that it was dependant on the forces I was applying to the cabinet. Screw and glue and what was resting above.
Looks like a great series. Just seeing this first video of the series makes me think that you missed one thing to mention however. You do explain and show why having a top and bottom between sides has benefits but you do not show the benefits of having top and bottom over and below the sides. And the main benefit is that if you intend to build a piece of furniture that is going to be standing on the floor and you are intending to put some heavy things on the top then it is simply going to be stronger for the very same reasons you explained. I am looking forward to seeing the whole series!
Thanks Adrian! I do make it clear that this is a wall-hung cabinet, and TBH I would always have the sides run all the way through to the top even if it was floor-mounted *unless there was a very good reason not to* eg if there was an overhanging top. The bottom edge of the sides is either supported either by the plinth, or the adjustable feet, and in the case of the overhanging top, then I'd have rails front & back of the carcass that the top could bear against, and be fixed to. Hope that makes sense! P 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes - makes sense. As always - do what works for you I guess. I had few projects where it had to be the way I described but I agree - having the same width makes all much quicker. All the best!
@@10MinuteWorkshop ...I suppose also if it was not a ceiling tall stand alone wardrobe then the sides are best on the inside since it is very likely things would be stacked on top for example a suitcase full of items. If it has wheels at the base again the sides would need to be on the inside. I now your builds are generally with a plinth and to ceiling height so I can understand your way :), its just that 1%
I am from Argentina and when the furniture rests all the weight on the base I assemble it as you say. I hardly ever build as proposed in the video for multiple reasons. Every situation has its solution. Hug
I thought I knew everything...because you have taught me all I know...blow me down your first video in this series and I have learnt some thing NEW... Nice one.. Oh what have I learnt new.. Wear my old pit helmet when pulling cabinets apart next to the drop down guide rail.. Cheers Peter
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'll be trying to make some built ins around my fire place in a couple of months. Any tips there, will. Have to look through your back catalogue, only just found you
Great video series idea that sums up all your previous build videos!!! My carcasses have all been with the top sitting on top of the sides. This was primarily because I was stacking carcasses on top of each other for a wall unit or a miter saw stand. That way I could distribute the weight across the top and then the top sat directly on the sides. However, the issue is getting all four sides to line up during glue up!! This has become such an issue that I have given up on this approach. Add to that situation, the use of dominos for joints and I am amazed I ever got the carcasses square and glued up!! Thanks!!
In my opinion it is better to use a rabbet instead of a butt joint on exposed sides. It makes it easier to assemble and increases strength since there is so much more surface glue area. You can also put in screws from above since they will not be seen and pin nails from the side. Also at the intersection of the two pices it is easier to hide the gap between the pices. It does take a bit more time.
This was really informative, thanks! I'm intrigued though by the track saw as a table saw. Seems like the best of both worlds for someone trying to decide which to get
You're the best! I've always wondered about that. You always show and explain things so well, whether it's a more complicated process or something basic like this that some people may not think is important to point out. I think I may have to stay away from track saws though. They're so dangerous. 🤣 Hope your headache is better.👍
Thank you.Great video concise to the point,so many content providers do like the sound of their own voice . Sometimes you just want the info and no flannel thanks again.👍
I'm retired from my woodworking shop. We didn't do residencial cabinets only commercial but a box is a box no matter where it ends up. If your method of attachment is sufficient, which is on top matters little. Our method was basically the same as the European standard. Everything was CNC cut by either a beam saw or a router. Fast, accurate & no chipping of the prefinished panel faces. Doweling was the primary method & done with a CNC controlled bore & insert machine. Assembly was done by using a glue injector that put a measured amount of glue in each dowel hole. A bead of melamine glue was put between the joints. The case was loosely knocked together and slid into a case clamp that pressed everything together for 3 minutes. Pressure was automatically controlled from side & top insuring it was held square. The advantages are many to placing the sides against the horizontals. All horizontals are the same size. Any variations in panel thickness whether from panel material or finishes does not affect fits. No applied ends are required as there are no exposed fasteners. The saw can cut any parts that do not require face detailing and can therefore stack cut sheets. Since the saw has a scoring blade no chipping of the prefinished parts occurs. The saw clamps the stacks tightly together so no chipping happens between panels. When something goes astray we end up with a "test" cabinet. Something to entertain the guys as they see how much abuse it can stand. Way more than it could possibly see in use. We do a lot of curved work that requires a different method of construction. No matter what the fastener the joints will always be glued. We make the curved wood mouldings by strip laminating and form clamping.
Thanks, I was REALLY surprised by this video! It’s very informative. I’ve got two questions about this: 1. It seems this is really only for wall cabinets. Cabinets that are at eye level or on the floor like sideboards are usually made the other way around, and that seems logical to me (and also aesthetically more pleasing, since you can see the top). Is this correct? 2. Okay, if the top is on top of the sides, a nail won’t hold the sides very securely because it’s just thin and doesn’t really have any grip. But what about a good screw? And does this differ in any significant way between MDF and plywood? Thanks!
Hey, I know your looking for a reply from the guy who made the video, but I’ve been a professional cabinet maker of 18 years (meaning I get paid to do it, not that I’m a master haha). 1) it is a little different for a base cabinet. The top of your base cabinet will basically be a countertop, which should sit on top of the cabinet sides. It depends on the specific case you want to build. If I have an additional top to go on the cabinet after it’s made, I personally still put the integral top of the cabinet between the sides, for shear strength of the pins/screws/nails when I lift and move the cabinet 2) using screw does not change what the video taught you. The shear strength of the screw is way more then the strength of the screw threads in any material, be it plywood or Mdf. Imagine pulling a screw with a hammer: more difficult then pulling a nail, but not as much pressure as you would need to sheer off the screw.
@@NotMyRealName541 Thanks, both points make perfect sense to me! ☺️ 🙌 I have built a wall-mounted sideboard and a wall-mounted bathroom vanity the weaker way because I wanted neat countertops and so far, they haven’t fallen apart yet (they are 5 years old now - I hope it won’t happen when they age more). But for my new project, I’ve changed the design after seeing this video! Now I’m doing what you’ve mentioned, sandwiching the integral top between the sides and then putting a thinner top plate on top of everything. I’m just an amateur but these videos and comments help me improve!
It also gives you exponentially more surface area for glue. Not that MDF glues particularly well, though, but it applies in principle to hardwoods and softwoods.
Ah, you can glue MDF well if you seal the cut edges first before gluing. I tested this out a while back when trying to make a box to insert in between the studs of my wall for integrated storage. You can either lather wood glue into the cut end(and it will suck up a heck of a lot) or I tried with a hi voc varnish just in the edge, and this worked a treat. Purely on just the end to side glue, the sealed edges were able to take 4 times the weight of an unprepared edge before snapping off, and it wasn't even the glue snapping but the surface of the side mdf tearing slightly.
@@timothymbess I don't think that word means what you think it means (exponentially). A rabbet can, at most, give just under twice the surface area for glue (assuming both boards are the same thickness). But to get that much requires a very thin portion of the board. More typically the rabbet will give you an extra 50%.
Thank you for laying out your reasoning so clearly. I also appreciate that you left in clips where the track swung down and bopped you in the noggin. A cautionary tale about workshop safety! 😂
Hi Peter, presumably, if the cabinet is floor standing (or on a plinth), the opposite is true? You'd want the sides to rest on the base rather than be screwed in from the side?
It depends... I always build them with the top/base within the sides, because I know the sides will be supported on a plinth, or if on adjustable legs, the legs will extend across the bottom edge of the sides for support. This gives the 'production' advantage of having shelves the same size as the top/base, and keeping the sides looking clean and clear. If the top overhangs the carcass then I'll usually have top rails front & back for the top to bear against, and fix onto. Hope that makes sense! P
Yes, floor cabinets will be sturdier with the sides inside. The way I think about it, a joint in compression is stronger than one with a shear load, which is in turn stronger than a joint in tension.
Keep it Simple. The cosmetic and production advantage will out weight the structural advantage in almost all normal situations. A floor standing single (bedside) or multiple (kitchen) cabinet's top would conceal the carcass bellow. However, the rest of the carcass is made the same. If it needs to support more weight, more thought would be needed (materials/fixings/supports).
@@-abigail True, but on a production standpoint, it's easier/faster to make the sides full length so one does not have to cover the sides with veneer or laminate to hide the ends of the bottom and top on exposed ends. I've been building cabinets since I was a teen and now retired and have worked in many different shops before I started my own and all of them cut/installed the sides full length allowing the bottom and hang-rails to fit between them. Like Peter said the load rests on the toe-kicks as long as the toe kicks are installed partly under the sides. But yes it is stronger putting the sides between the top rails and the bottom shelf...but it turns into a pain in the arse production-wise and cosmetics but there are probably shops out there that do this method. The old school way has become the new school way, just using new tools and machinery and hardware...except for Ikea crap. But will admit Ikea uses some very nice materials in some cases....but not many. I never did like using dowels to attach ends to bottom shelves because after being an installer for years I found they are weak and break easily or come loose. I always screw my ends on with 5 screws minimum per bottom shelf and I use 1/2" material for backs minimum screwed-on and sometimes 3/4" material. I want that cabinet to stay together if it falls off the truck lol...because it's my name at stake here...and my wallet. Build cheap shit and your business will fail...I've seen it happen a lot. In all kinds of businesses. There is no such thing as "over building" as long as it looks clean and right. So in a nutshell, do it the way you want to and heck with everyone else because time will tell which method works the best for different projects. Wood is only as strong as the builder who uses it.
I do top/bottom inside for all cabinets. I usually do biscuits and carcass screws to hold everything together. Never had a failure. Where screw heads will show, a decor panel covers a multitude of sins.
Hello Peter! Your study of the top and the base between the sides being a preferred joint, is an area much neglected. I fully agree with that where fastners, as demonstrated are used. However you could, with your practical knowledge be asked about a fish tank base, which is unique and thought provoking! Experienced manufacturers of fish tanks, always place the base between the sides, using just clear R.T.V. Silicone adhesive which is also astethically suitable. The reason for this is that it's shear strength is greater than it's tensile strength and will stretch alot, long before the joint fails. Also more immune to thermal or impact shock, with a thick application. The area of the joint surface is also an important consideration. This is of course a glass application. Thanks for the video!
I totally agree with other commentators, you made a great point and your production quality is awesome. But as you say, you have transferred the sheer load to the fixing. I prefer the sides to take the compression loading, the fixings are only there to hold it upright. You can achieve a 3x or even 4x loading capacity by fitting the top on to the sides, instead on loading on the fixings. Horses for courses, but again, a great video, LIKED, SAVED & SUBSCRIBED
Thanks, and welcome! These are specifically about wall-hung cabinets, so not sure how there would ever be a compression load on there. Here in the UK & Europe base cabinets are usually made the same way, but they either rest on a plinth so the sides are fully supported, or on adjustable legs that extend out to also support the sides. The top usually overhangs a base cabinet, so we use a bearer between the sides at front & back, for the top to bear against and fix onto. It's the standard way that commercial base cabinets are made here. 👍
Great video series. You sound just like Peter Windsor the F1 expert. I had this playing without looking at the screen and I thought “why is Peter Windsor talking about cabinetry?”. You’ve got a really great channel here.
Great stuff Peter. Very logical and good of you to leave in the slapstick moments of 'guide rail vs tugging man'. I hope there was no pain from the gain of those 'comedic moments.
I make cabinets and wardrobes, been a carpenter nearly 40 years and it’s always sides with the top and base in between. Structurally the strongest way of doing them, doing it the other way is just wrong
The same here. I am not a carpenter - however my sense for construction sturdiness just tell me it cannot work safely other way. It does not matter IMHO if you use screws, pins or lamellas. Good to here I am not wrong.
Wow! Even that particle/mdf board shows how strong it is nailed on the side. Was thinking of doing this for a tall (6') hanging linen closet made of 1/2 plywood, though. You reinforced my thinking. But, I will likely support with 2 horizontal cleats anyway. =)
Doesn't tell the whole story though. He only addresses hanging cabinets. For a base cabinet, the primary load is compressing down on the top and having the top piece go through to the end will spread out the load a bit and never fail. It's not that critical in cabinets but in something that needs to bear a lot of compressive weight it's something to consider. I'd still go with this video's recommendation 9 times out of 10.
@@Goalsplus I remember this coming up when someone was building a shop cart (mobile workbench). It was simple, a plywood base with casters, some ply corner uprights and a top. He had screwed the uprights into the side of the base, which would fail if under a bunch of weight. If the uprights go on top of the base, it could withstand much more punishment. I think he found a middle ground by adding an extra piece on the inside, so it ended up having the best of both worlds.
10 seconds into the video at I’m thinking to myself “this guys sounds cool I wish he was my uncle”. I’ve never used a power tool in my life but I’m getting the feeling I’m gonna watch every single one of these videos. 🤣
![Cabinetry Basics Part 2 - Screws or Nails? [video 436]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LPGH_BhIzZg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Cabinetry Basics Part 2 - Screws or Nails? [video 436]](/img/tr.png)
![Cabinet Door Sizing [*Ad] [video 549]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tyeGTD9aF4E/mqdefault.jpg)
Very helpful and informative. I am a retired accountant and into DIY cabinetry/bookshelves/etc just as a new hobby.
Current accountant here, been wanting to pick up woodworking for a long time
@@mohammadrajput9550 now is your time brother. Get some research in, get basic basic basic tools and just start with some small stuff. Shelves, garden bed, anything. the path is yours to carve and whatnot.
I clicked on the video for information, now I’m falling asleep because his voice is ASMR gold. 😴
Showing how hard it was to pull the wall off made it crystal clear. Thanks a lot
Loved this video Peter, I am an experienced woodworker, and I understand load distribution and mechanical strength, peel and shear, etc, but you covered this so beautifully for anyone to understand, the Slapstick was a bonus, I particularly loved the way you looked at your Guide track after it hit you on the head, as if you were mentally willing it not to happen again, and then it Did 😂, if I had a pound for every time something like that happened to me in the last thirty years, I would be well off, but at least in my case such minor incidents happened in the private, not on camera for all to appreciate 😊 - Keep up the good work- Julie
Peter is a consummate professional. Great explanations with equally great demonstrations to illustrate the point. I loved how he took the time to square up his work piece as he was nailing it together while knowing he was going to pull it apart immediately. It's that attention to details (even ones that don't matter in this case) that leads to such fine craftsmanship. Very well done video.
Thank you! 👍
Hi there Phartan 117 . Yes I agree with you , Peter is the real thing . I have been doing this sort of work for fifty years and that before one srarts with any project it is a good idea to think about the possibilities that the finish product is going to be exposed to , this is the mechanics of the structure . Then , of course , is the aesthetics which is quite important . With all this in mind one can build good and functional , not only cabinets but , all sorts of things . Keep it clean , keep it simple . And in the end you will find that you will develop your own style . Cheers!
Thought this would be one of those “oh it’s obviously x” videos, but actually learned a lot as to why I was wrong! Great information on the rationale!
Thanks! 👍
Same here! I figured "well obviously the top should sit on the sides, because if the top has stuff on it then it'll be heavy and the sides will provide extra support". I'm very glad I watched this before I actually started making anything.
Wall hung use different method to floor standing
And if you want to use it as a table (upper side to support things), is it better to put that piece of wood over the wood side, isn't it?
One question more (thanks in advance), if you want to link 2 pieces of wood (i.e. 2 cm wide each one) like in the video, what must the screw length be to ensure that they will have a perfect and resistant union? Is there any rule about it?
Thanks a lot!
Yea i was wrong too but then i didnt realise it should be a wall cabinet carcass lol
This is one of the best “how to” videos I’ve come across. Thank you for making it so clear and easy. 👍🏼 This is exactly what I’m looking for.
Awesome, thank you! 👍
watched for the info, subscribed because you kept the part where that track fell on your head, multiple times from multiple angles, so very relatable I love it. This makes so much sense and answered this question I often wondered about why things were the way they were. Also, that fact that wen you have shelves having them the same length as the top and bottom just has a better look about it as well. So it makes the sides look better and even the symmetry of the front looks better as well.
Something tells me that I need to watch a lot more of your videos before I go and start my first project
At 55 I'm a total woodwork beginner. Your videos are the most informative and inspiring I've found on TH-cam 👍
Thank you very much! Very kind of you to say, and much appreciated. 🙌👍
@@robertgibson5172 Hi. I did 20 cupboard, I fix a lots of cupboard, I learned static 24 years ago I never think like that. Good denonstrtation. Good for the first picture, when I saw the diffrent i was interresting what do u say to me. Good demonstration. Is important. Sometime we dont need to know everithing, but better. I copied the ikeaz,or kitchen cupboard what they made, because they have better experience. But Im fed up with the modern life, we use to much, and all cupboard not to strong, to much dust and oil very easily and everibody buy new and we use to much what we dont need. The human what thiking in a future we need to think. The cheapboard, not to strong, but we need... I looking for strong cover, because one piece cupboard door 60 pound is to much. The plastic and glur not to strong too... When the modern cupboard to expensive,,have a lots of space what we dont use,,when i made myself cupboard better, is fit. I looked for secret draw,,I made draw, but i want learn new option. Thank you. I think 5 years ago i saw u in some video, but not exactly I remember... Good video, Im subscribe.
I think it's important to determine whether the cabinet is compressed or tensioned to decide on the wanted assembly configuration. For a floor standing cabinet you'd be better off with the sides inside the top and bottom. The way loads are normally applied on standing cabinets causes compression to the cabinet instead of tension. In this scenario it would be like your first experiment, but with pushing the vertical piece down toward the workbench instead of pulling up like you did. That's far stronger because you don't rely on your fasteners to take the load at all. For wall hung cabinets it is indeed better to have the top and bottom inside just like you explained. for the aesthetics it also depends on the case, and for ease of production I absolutely agree with you. Great video.
Wouldn’t a cabinet under compression often have a separate top added to the carcass, as in a counter top or desk top, In which case top and bottom inside the sides remains a good solution?
@@CaptainofmyShed in case of an additional top, well In this case you have both and it's better of course, even though the bottom one won't take any significant load and therefore might be unnecessary. Don't forget the bottom piece, it still transfers the load from the sides to the feet. So you still benefit from setting up and cutting it to the outside dimensions. At this point it would make sense to also cut the top to the same measurements and benefit from the consistant appearance.
Thanks for the info! I came to ask about this because the video specified that it was for wall-hung cabinets, but what if mine were sitting on the floor? You answered my question. =)
I had a similar thought looking at the thumbnail. I thought it was a simple side table or bookshelf that would take load better under compression in the “post and lintel” style. That said I definitely learned something from watching and for that I subscribed👍
Leaving the cut of the bench moving and the track clattering you on the head was a great little touch.
In a company I've worked for 9 years we usually worked with 45º cuts. Depending on the size of the furniture, we used some wooden "biscuits" joints (with carpenter glue) to mount it afterwards.
It always worked pretty well
How are you hanging them? No way I’d trust a wall-hung cabinet with biscuited bevel joints unless they were on some very heavy fixings, personally. 🤷♂️👍
Love it when u r trying to pull the two bits of mdf apart and the fence falls on your head...twice!!!
Nice to find a TH-camr speaking plain English and from the U.K. (not as I dislike all the US ones, but to taking in mm and U.K. suppliers etc is refreshing)
Hitting the sub button... cheers mate 👍👍 🇬🇧
Thanks, and welcome! 👍👍
This was a big confidence booster. I have no experience with making cabinets, but I've seen it done, and it never struck me as being too complicated. At some point, I heard someone say cabinets were "the most technically complicated part of any building," and that gave me a lasting fear of trying. I see now that they are far more approachable than I ever realized.
When you see the shear load demo, where the metal nail is horizontal to gravity, it suddenly makes sense. I was always subconsciously imagining the forces on a box sitting on the ground when it seemed so intuitive to put the top board on top of two posts. Like stonehenge or house framing. Thanks for helping me see that differently with your demo. Now I can imagine gravity trying to pull the bottom of a box off the top board when it's hanging on a wall.
it depends if you use nails or screws
rule of thumb: nails will rip out on axial load but don't sheer off tat easy - screws will not rip out on axial load but will sheer off with ease
and yes, it is a bit more complicated than that
I made a tool cabinet that rolls on castors. I used full size base and top to give maximum vertical compression strength. The finished job is faced with commercial banner material. To date it has worked well. It was more hassle to fit shelves but I believe worth the effort.
This is such valuable information, new people are entering the craft all the time and these tips need telling frequently, cheers Peter.
Thanks Stephen! 👍👍
I haven’t watched a lot of cabinet making videos. I loved how straight forward, concise, reasonable this video is. You earned a new subscriber!
Very helpful, making a mobile cart w/ drawers for my bandsaw and was musing over the carcass construction. Now I'm convinced - top and bottom go inside the side walls.
Thank you for showing me this!!! I would have never thought how important this is. So many things make sense now.
Great information.I’m 53 never built a cabinet in my life I fixed a few things I’m an auto mechanic.now I build refrigeration compressors but I never really dabbled in building stuff out of wood and I just purchased a cargotrailer I wanna convert into a tiny home just for fun/camping and what not so I’m trying to figure out what I need to make some cabinetry and a slide out bed etc.this was helpful thanks.
Nice video!!! I think that both metods have diferents advantages, in case of a kitchen cabinet with plastic legs and a huge piece of marble on the top "the above metod" i think that can suport this weight in a better way because is sitting on the sides and in your case the weight is on the screws or whatever you use in this join. In terms of aesthetics sometimes this cabinets goes under a final panels of with a clean finish (melamine,...) and so the screws are no longer visible. Anyhow good point on your explanation too. Keed your great work!!!
The heavy counter wouldn't rest on the screws because you're supposed to have a slight reveal so that the sides are in contact with the counter, not the top.
@@vapeurdepisse he means if the granite is sitting on the side panels as it should be, and the side panels are only supported by the fixings into the base panel, and the cabinet feet don’t sit under the side panels, then the weight of the granite would be on the fixings into the base panel. This is resolved by the cabinet feet being shaped to also support the side panels.
Great video as always. I however bet to differ on the stress test you conducted. The concern should be on the weight the inner board can bear before it fails and not trying to rip the carcass out. I believe the one set on top because it rests on the two side boards is much stronger. You make a good point with the aesthetics tough. Thank you for sharing.
ive been a custom cabinet builder for 35 years in midwest 🇺🇸 i use dados ,glue and blind nailing for finished ends on uppers . wall ends are butt joints side inside top and bottom glued micro pinned then pocket screwed together with solid wood backrails and screwing cleats its the real deal including solid hardwood frames also pocket screwed and raised panel doors and drawer fronts ,solid wood drawers
The only exception to this is with base units (floor level) where the lower corners should have the sides sitting on the base. Ideally, the cabinet feet should also be positioned as close as possible to the cabinet sides to provided support for all the weight that will be bearing on those sides (crockery, pots and pans, granite worktops, large Belfast sinks etc).
To cover any unsightly joints, you can incorporate end panels into your design.
Only the lower corners? Is there a reason why you wouldn’t do the top the same way so everything is sitting on top of each other vertically? Also curious to hear whether Mr Millard also does his this way?
@@JameysVideos Many base units are not made with tops, and only have a couple of rails (horizontal components) between the tops of the sides (front and back), because there'll be a worktop of some sort being put on. And, these rails are only necessary to hold the sides at the correct distance apart while fixing the case to the frame, with the rear rail providing an edge to screw the top of the cabinet's back to. The worktop will be directly in contact with the tops of the sides, so as long as the sides are supported properly, there shouldn't be a problem.
Found this video really useful. I’m about to build a Dj console which is essentially a long shallow box. I’m planning this for the sides to go on top of the base as this will put less stress (no stress) on the screws. I’ll do the same with the front and back panels but the left and right sides will be attached on the outside.
Then the top will go on for a nice smooth surface. I’m cutting the squares out to sink the decks and mixer in so they will be flush with the surface.
I was about to ask about screws and nails and how that would change which way to connect the cabinet together, but I see the next part is about screws and nails, will have to watch that now
Helping the algorithm. The series could become a well-deserved hit.
Thanks! Fingers crossed! 👍
Funny you should mention the algorithm... I haven't had any videos suggested for months, then this one shows up without me having to go looking. I wonder if it's because of the mention on sponsorship? 🤔
@@10MinuteWorkshop If you didn't keep your fingers crossed. you might have avoided being hit on the head! LOL
I should be helping the algorithm more often :-) . I am glad to see this channel rise in popularity. Congratulations.
First channel i've ever subscribed to before even finishing their first video. You sir dont even need to ask for us to subscribe the pure value of the content is evident within 30 seconds.
Thank you! 🙌👍
Loving that hinged track saw setup. That has really got me thinking about my own workshop, I don't have a lot of room but this could be a good fix!
..... just make sure the track does'nt continually fall down on to your head ! .....
@@terencefranks1688 😂😂 right?
Dear Peter, thank you for your videos - your personal style, openness, honesty about it all, knowledgeability, your undisturbed rest and clear considerations - really appreciated!
Thank you! 👍
I can say, that was the best 9 minutes i've spent this week learning something.
🙌👍👍
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly lost the login password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Watson Zaire Instablaster :)
@Fabian Ryland Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out now.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Fabian Ryland It worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass !
I loved the part where the board on your bench falls on you once, then you go back at it with renewed vigor and it almost falls on you a second time. Now THAT's dedication!
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations on having a sponsor for making this kind of series. Thanks for bringing physics into woodworking. It made it very understandable. 32 years ago I made particle board cubes. The back was made of plywood or hardboard. They were made to stand next and on each other.
Since the 4 main parts were squares 30x30 cm. It wasn't a real cube. But when putting it together I put the top part ON the side parts. Wrong, or an exception to the rule?
Some of the cubes are still "alive" and in use.
Not wrong at all Hans; as I say very specifically in the video, I'm talking about wall-hung cabinets here - though personally I'd still fit the top & base between the sides on a floor-mounted box, just for the additional benefits. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks for your comment. Way back then I didn't have any knowledge of woodworking. The pieces of 30x30 cm were cut in the store where I bought the whole sheets. Painting (and drying of the paint) took forever and the only tools I had was a drill, a drill standard, some drill bits and screwdriver bits.
But it was fun making it. The additional benefits of doing it your way are obvious so I know how to do it in the future.
I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. A 101 video about making drawers I'd highly welcome. There are a lot of myths about that as well.
I am doing a DIY Wall Mounted Folding Table. I am doing exactly what you have explained. TH-cam is really amazing that it showed your informative video on this approach. Your explanation is very educative for hobbyist like me. Thanks a ton, Peter!!! 💗
Thank you! 👍
I'm glad you posted this right after I finished up some wall cabinets with the top/bottom outside the sides 😂
Haha, sorry! 😬 They'll be fine - but this is my preferred way. 🤷♂️👍
😂😂😂
I feel bad. Same here, but by pure laziness of not cutting different lengths for shelves Vs tops and bottoms, I did it how the vid suggests. Bum luck lol.
I actually thought I was choosing a mechanically weaker option. Though these are stand alone shelves not a cabinet. So arguably the down force is. 😜
You can rotate the whole cabinet 90 degrees and you'll have your top/bottom between the sides.
@@syaani genuine lol. Both funny and true.
Just take care your plates don't smash when you do it 😁
I cannot tell you how much I enjoy your videos Peter, they are intelligent, eloquent and direct. As a new woodworker I enjoy your content immensely. I will go to the Medite site and see how I can benefit from their products! Thank you.
Thank you! 🙌👍
Reasons 1, 2 and 3 shown - reason 0 is actually the important one: cabinets NEED to be all the same *height*. Differing widths, the eye doesn't notice - cabinets abut each other, micro-variations in width dont matter. But micro-variations is what you get, between sheets of board AND edging applications: in the trade, this is called "cabinet creep".
For example: make cabinet of H600, W300. Let board thickness = t.
Assume T=20mm for your calculations. Incorrectly made box (top+bot overpassing sides) has sides of H560. But T *actually* is 20.2mm - now your box is 0.4mm higher than your end panels you've cut/bought!
Whereas with sides overpassing, that thickness defect *goes to the middle*, ie. the opening is reduced by that 0.4mm... But nobody's counting that - fingers feel unflush parts, eyes don't unsee and houseguests dont forget 😂😂😂
This is even more critical for BASE cabinets, as you need a dead-level surface for natural stone tops to sit upon. Else, trouble.
And oven towers/stacked cabinets: cabinet creep quickly adds up to be +\- up to 2mm, as compared to bought-in end panels.
That's largely exaggerated. By the time the installer sets up the cabinets, you will definitely have some variation, with absolutely no consequence visually or structurally. The stone countertop will be just fine because the countertop installer uses shims anyway. Been there, done that.
@@vapeurdepisse never had a countertop installer use shims on my cabinets. And we're taking about upper cabinets as well. And sit-in-top cabinets. Been there, done this for 15years straight.
You’ve been doing this for 15 years and you assume the thickness of a material instead of actually measuring it and then doing your calculations with that number? Seems a very simple way to avoid the whole problem you described and was the first thing I learned day one on the job: “measure twice, cut once”.
There can be a 0.3mm variation between sheetgoods, just from the manufacturer's different batches. There can be that much variation in a sheet, even. Like everything, not all products are equal.
Some processes have thickness checks built into them. For example, I double-sided nest about 40t of MDF p.a. As it's profiled on both the face and reverse, the thickness of the sheet is calipered for each sheet processed.
However, for the other 120 tons of board on the single-sided line - software, fittings and construction method cover it all. I might only check the board thickness 3 times p. a.
You’re going to need a hard hat 😅
I got wrong focus. I am amazed with the circular saw track setup with hinges. So Simple & practical.
"Once you see it you can't unsee it." True, no matter how small the defect... :-)
Lol. This post will come back to me next time I look in the mirror.
Your English is very clear. Everyone can follow and understand. Enjoyed the video.
Kismet. Just starting some kitchen cabinets. My first. Thank you.
Aspiring DIYer here. Thank you so much for the learning and laugh.
Thank you! 🙌👍
Joint - 1 ; Head - 0
In all seriousness, this is a great series. Thank you for taking the time to produce this.
Thanks! 🤕😂😂👍
That's how I was taught to build a cabinet, and I think it's the best way. If I'm making something that is floor standing and takes a lot of weight, I build this way and then add a top that overlaps the carcass sides. This spreads the load down through the sides, and if the load is substantial, I glue a thin base to the the bottom as well for extra strength.
You did forget rule number one of woodworking though.....all through the video, I was waiting to see you stab your left hand on those protruding nails - I always pull out redundant pins immediately....I've punctured myself way too many times in the past. Looking forward to the rest of this series.
Thanks David! 👍
I do hope you put these videos into a one playlist so we can come back easily
Yes, indeed! DOn't think I've done that yet, but I will! Thanks! 👍
5 minutes into the video I see you sir using an ESTWING hammer...you surely worth your salt to be using such a high craftsman tool...Great respect to you and anybody who knows and works with an ESTWING hammer...👍👍👍👍now for the rest of the video which in it's self is very educational👏👏👏👏🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Thanks! 👍
The track for your saw being hinged on the bench is brilliant.
Thanks, it is! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop did you build this or buy it? incredible
@@rollthetape88 Festool MFT table
When you said brilliant I was thinking on Paul Whitehouse lol!
No nonsense, just densely packed with useful information. Thank you!
Great video! I don’t build cabinets, but I still found this very informative.
simple explanation and demonstration, as someone new to DIY and woodworking that really helped
Thanks! 👍
Wow, I learned so much in this short video, so informative, felt like I was in a woodworking class, perfect, thank you
I am attempting bathroom cabinets for first time. Your videos are therefore godsend.
This was so easy to follow and made so much sense along the way. Great explanation for a simple concept that I hadn't thought about but hope to build a vanity this year.
I've made cabinets like this before, but I used screws to fix them together. I didn't countersink them I filed them down and polished them. I thought the brass screws on birch ply looked really good. Can't wait to see what other methods you have next week!
Nice! Brass screws on Birch play sounds very cool! 👍
It's funny, I ran test before building my cupboard for my stacked washer and dryer.
I came the same conclusion that it was dependant on the forces I was applying to the cabinet. Screw and glue and what was resting above.
👍
Never seen any of your videos, but once I saw that piece fall on your head, I instantly knew you were a legit cabinet maker haha thanks for the tips
I enjoyed you getting hit in the head by the rail a bit too much!
Great video, and well explained as per usual. An essential channel for me. Thanks.
Oh, how I laughed! 😂 And thanks! 👍👍
Sadist!
This guy knows his stuff! Brilliant- i like the fast paced delivery of information. Feels like alot of thought and prep goes into these videos
Thank you! 🙌👍
Looks like a great series. Just seeing this first video of the series makes me think that you missed one thing to mention however. You do explain and show why having a top and bottom between sides has benefits but you do not show the benefits of having top and bottom over and below the sides. And the main benefit is that if you intend to build a piece of furniture that is going to be standing on the floor and you are intending to put some heavy things on the top then it is simply going to be stronger for the very same reasons you explained. I am looking forward to seeing the whole series!
Thanks Adrian! I do make it clear that this is a wall-hung cabinet, and TBH I would always have the sides run all the way through to the top even if it was floor-mounted *unless there was a very good reason not to* eg if there was an overhanging top. The bottom edge of the sides is either supported either by the plinth, or the adjustable feet, and in the case of the overhanging top, then I'd have rails front & back of the carcass that the top could bear against, and be fixed to. Hope that makes sense! P 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes - makes sense. As always - do what works for you I guess. I had few projects where it had to be the way I described but I agree - having the same width makes all much quicker. All the best!
@@10MinuteWorkshop ...I suppose also if it was not a ceiling tall stand alone wardrobe then the sides are best on the inside since it is very likely things would be stacked on top for example a suitcase full of items. If it has wheels at the base again the sides would need to be on the inside. I now your builds are generally with a plinth and to ceiling height so I can understand your way :), its just that 1%
I am from Argentina and when the furniture rests all the weight on the base I assemble it as you say. I hardly ever build as proposed in the video for multiple reasons. Every situation has its solution. Hug
I thought I knew everything...because you have taught me all I know...blow me down your first video in this series and I have learnt some thing NEW... Nice one.. Oh what have I learnt new.. Wear my old pit helmet when pulling cabinets apart next to the drop down guide rail.. Cheers Peter
Thanks Paul! 😂😂
This is the kind of basic craftmanship education i wish someone had taught me in highschool!
Super simple but I've gotta learn somehow! Speed and pace of delivery was great. Straight to the point and easy to follow. Thanks.
Thank you! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'll be trying to make some built ins around my fire place in a couple of months. Any tips there, will. Have to look through your back catalogue, only just found you
I like your succinct style, getting straight to the point with no waffle. Thanks a lot 👍
Great video series idea that sums up all your previous build videos!!! My carcasses have all been with the top sitting on top of the sides. This was primarily because I was stacking carcasses on top of each other for a wall unit or a miter saw stand. That way I could distribute the weight across the top and then the top sat directly on the sides. However, the issue is getting all four sides to line up during glue up!! This has become such an issue that I have given up on this approach. Add to that situation, the use of dominos for joints and I am amazed I ever got the carcasses square and glued up!! Thanks!!
You fit a lot of information in a straight forward and efficient video. Love it!
You are so good in playing a teacher anyways i appreaciated i got to say im reliieved
In my opinion it is better to use a rabbet instead of a butt joint on exposed sides. It makes it easier to assemble and increases strength since there is so much more surface glue area. You can also put in screws from above since they will not be seen and pin nails from the side. Also at the intersection of the two pices it is easier to hide the gap between the pices. It does take a bit more time.
This was really informative, thanks! I'm intrigued though by the track saw as a table saw. Seems like the best of both worlds for someone trying to decide which to get
You're the best! I've always wondered about that. You always show and explain things so well, whether it's a more complicated process or something basic like this that some people may not think is important to point out. I think I may have to stay away from track saws though. They're so dangerous. 🤣 Hope your headache is better.👍
Next episode - when tracksaws attack - out next week! 😂 And thanks! 🙌 👍
Thank you.Great video concise to the point,so many content providers do like the sound of their own voice . Sometimes you just want the info and no flannel thanks again.👍
Thanks! 👍
Thank you, first time I've heard this, and seen an actual example test. How's your head after being whacked?
Thanks! And all well - no sense, no feeling, and all that... 😂 👍
I'm retired from my woodworking shop. We didn't do residencial cabinets only commercial but a box is a box no matter where it ends up. If your method of attachment is sufficient, which is on top matters little. Our method was basically the same as the European standard. Everything was CNC cut by either a beam saw or a router. Fast, accurate & no chipping of the prefinished panel faces. Doweling was the primary method & done with a CNC controlled bore & insert machine. Assembly was done by using a glue injector that put a measured amount of glue in each dowel hole. A bead of melamine glue was put between the joints. The case was loosely knocked together and slid into a case clamp that pressed everything together for 3 minutes. Pressure was automatically controlled from side & top insuring it was held square.
The advantages are many to placing the sides against the horizontals. All horizontals are the same size. Any variations in panel thickness whether from panel material or finishes does not affect fits. No applied ends are required as there are no exposed fasteners. The saw can cut any parts that do not require face detailing and can therefore stack cut sheets. Since the saw has a scoring blade no chipping of the prefinished parts occurs. The saw clamps the stacks tightly together so no chipping happens between panels.
When something goes astray we end up with a "test" cabinet. Something to entertain the guys as they see how much abuse it can stand. Way more than it could possibly see in use.
We do a lot of curved work that requires a different method of construction. No matter what the fastener the joints will always be glued. We make the curved wood mouldings by strip laminating and form clamping.
Thanks, I was REALLY surprised by this video! It’s very informative. I’ve got two questions about this:
1. It seems this is really only for wall cabinets. Cabinets that are at eye level or on the floor like sideboards are usually made the other way around, and that seems logical to me (and also aesthetically more pleasing, since you can see the top). Is this correct?
2. Okay, if the top is on top of the sides, a nail won’t hold the sides very securely because it’s just thin and doesn’t really have any grip. But what about a good screw? And does this differ in any significant way between MDF and plywood?
Thanks!
Hey, I know your looking for a reply from the guy who made the video, but I’ve been a professional cabinet maker of 18 years (meaning I get paid to do it, not that I’m a master haha).
1) it is a little different for a base cabinet. The top of your base cabinet will basically be a countertop, which should sit on top of the cabinet sides. It depends on the specific case you want to build. If I have an additional top to go on the cabinet after it’s made, I personally still put the integral top of the cabinet between the sides, for shear strength of the pins/screws/nails when I lift and move the cabinet
2) using screw does not change what the video taught you. The shear strength of the screw is way more then the strength of the screw threads in any material, be it plywood or Mdf. Imagine pulling a screw with a hammer: more difficult then pulling a nail, but not as much pressure as you would need to sheer off the screw.
@@NotMyRealName541 Thanks, both points make perfect sense to me! ☺️ 🙌
I have built a wall-mounted sideboard and a wall-mounted bathroom vanity the weaker way because I wanted neat countertops and so far, they haven’t fallen apart yet (they are 5 years old now - I hope it won’t happen when they age more). But for my new project, I’ve changed the design after seeing this video! Now I’m doing what you’ve mentioned, sandwiching the integral top between the sides and then putting a thinner top plate on top of everything. I’m just an amateur but these videos and comments help me improve!
This channel should be a go to for all joiners and carpenters alike
Thanks! 👍
Love that adding a rabbet makes the joint include the advantages of both.
It also gives you exponentially more surface area for glue. Not that MDF glues particularly well, though, but it applies in principle to hardwoods and softwoods.
Ah, you can glue MDF well if you seal the cut edges first before gluing.
I tested this out a while back when trying to make a box to insert in between the studs of my wall for integrated storage.
You can either lather wood glue into the cut end(and it will suck up a heck of a lot) or I tried with a hi voc varnish just in the edge, and this worked a treat.
Purely on just the end to side glue, the sealed edges were able to take 4 times the weight of an unprepared edge before snapping off, and it wasn't even the glue snapping but the surface of the side mdf tearing slightly.
@@timothymbess I don't think that word means what you think it means (exponentially).
A rabbet can, at most, give just under twice the surface area for glue (assuming both boards are the same thickness). But to get that much requires a very thin portion of the board. More typically the rabbet will give you an extra 50%.
@@XJWill1
Inconceivable!
@@XJWill1 I was just about to say that. I think covid has made the word popular.
Thank you for laying out your reasoning so clearly. I also appreciate that you left in clips where the track swung down and bopped you in the noggin. A cautionary tale about workshop safety! 😂
Hi Peter, presumably, if the cabinet is floor standing (or on a plinth), the opposite is true? You'd want the sides to rest on the base rather than be screwed in from the side?
It depends... I always build them with the top/base within the sides, because I know the sides will be supported on a plinth, or if on adjustable legs, the legs will extend across the bottom edge of the sides for support. This gives the 'production' advantage of having shelves the same size as the top/base, and keeping the sides looking clean and clear. If the top overhangs the carcass then I'll usually have top rails front & back for the top to bear against, and fix onto. Hope that makes sense! P
Yes, floor cabinets will be sturdier with the sides inside. The way I think about it, a joint in compression is stronger than one with a shear load, which is in turn stronger than a joint in tension.
Keep it Simple. The cosmetic and production advantage will out weight the structural advantage in almost all normal situations. A floor standing single (bedside) or multiple (kitchen) cabinet's top would conceal the carcass bellow. However, the rest of the carcass is made the same. If it needs to support more weight, more thought would be needed (materials/fixings/supports).
@@-abigail True, but on a production standpoint, it's easier/faster to make the sides full length so one does not have to cover the sides with veneer or laminate to hide the ends of the bottom and top on exposed ends. I've been building cabinets since I was a teen and now retired and have worked in many different shops before I started my own and all of them cut/installed the sides full length allowing the bottom and hang-rails to fit between them. Like Peter said the load rests on the toe-kicks as long as the toe kicks are installed partly under the sides. But yes it is stronger putting the sides between the top rails and the bottom shelf...but it turns into a pain in the arse production-wise and cosmetics but there are probably shops out there that do this method. The old school way has become the new school way, just using new tools and machinery and hardware...except for Ikea crap. But will admit Ikea uses some very nice materials in some cases....but not many. I never did like using dowels to attach ends to bottom shelves because after being an installer for years I found they are weak and break easily or come loose. I always screw my ends on with 5 screws minimum per bottom shelf and I use 1/2" material for backs minimum screwed-on and sometimes 3/4" material. I want that cabinet to stay together if it falls off the truck lol...because it's my name at stake here...and my wallet. Build cheap shit and your business will fail...I've seen it happen a lot. In all kinds of businesses. There is no such thing as "over building" as long as it looks clean and right. So in a nutshell, do it the way you want to and heck with everyone else because time will tell which method works the best for different projects. Wood is only as strong as the builder who uses it.
I do top/bottom inside for all cabinets. I usually do biscuits and carcass screws to hold everything together. Never had a failure. Where screw heads will show, a decor panel covers a multitude of sins.
Hello Peter!
Your study of the top and the base between the sides being a preferred joint, is an area much neglected. I fully agree with that where fastners, as demonstrated are used.
However you could, with your practical knowledge be asked about a fish tank base, which is unique and thought provoking!
Experienced manufacturers of fish tanks, always place the base between the sides, using just clear R.T.V. Silicone adhesive which is also astethically suitable.
The reason for this is that it's shear strength is greater than it's tensile strength and will stretch alot, long before the joint fails. Also more immune to thermal or impact shock, with a thick application.
The area of the joint surface is also an important consideration.
This is of course a glass application.
Thanks for the video!
Peter risking concussion to illustrate the point. Hope that didn't hurt too much.
Thanks Hhurram - you know what they say, no sense, no feeling! 😂🤕
When workbenches attack !!
I totally agree with other commentators, you made a great point and your production quality is awesome. But as you say, you have transferred the sheer load to the fixing. I prefer the sides to take the compression loading, the fixings are only there to hold it upright. You can achieve a 3x or even 4x loading capacity by fitting the top on to the sides, instead on loading on the fixings.
Horses for courses, but again, a great video, LIKED, SAVED & SUBSCRIBED
Thanks, and welcome! These are specifically about wall-hung cabinets, so not sure how there would ever be a compression load on there. Here in the UK & Europe base cabinets are usually made the same way, but they either rest on a plinth so the sides are fully supported, or on adjustable legs that extend out to also support the sides. The top usually overhangs a base cabinet, so we use a bearer between the sides at front & back, for the top to bear against and fix onto. It's the standard way that commercial base cabinets are made here. 👍
Nothing better than proof, no discussions needed about this after watching this movie. Great job !
Great video series. You sound just like Peter Windsor the F1 expert. I had this playing without looking at the screen and I thought “why is Peter Windsor talking about cabinetry?”. You’ve got a really great channel here.
Thank you! 👍👍
Qq
The credit reel along with the ending footage won me over and I subscribed!
Thank you, and welcome! 👍👍
Between that and the intro it nearly made me turn off
Hello from Mossyrock, WA. USA. You remind me of some of my favorite teachers. Great basic information that most videos skip over..thank you
Hi Todd, and thanks so much for taking the time to comment, very much appreciated! Best wishes from a Frosty London! 👍👍
I would simply make my cabinets or dressers based on the aesthetic. I’m glad to learn there are two more benefits to keep doin what I’m doin.
That's the channel I have been looking for for ages. Thank you so much.
Nice, you really are going back to the basics. Can't wait for the rest of the series
Thanks! 👍
Thank you. Building a box and knowing the correct way screws and side to be attached to Strength!
Thanks Peter, I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of this series.
Thanks!👍
Great stuff Peter. Very logical and good of you to leave in the slapstick moments of 'guide rail vs tugging man'. I hope there was no pain from the gain of those 'comedic moments.
Thanks! And honestly, after the first blow I was so dazed I'm not sure I noticed the rest... 😂 👍
I make cabinets and wardrobes, been a carpenter nearly 40 years and it’s always sides with the top and base in between. Structurally the strongest way of doing them, doing it the other way is just wrong
👍 🙌
The same here. I am not a carpenter - however my sense for construction sturdiness just tell me it cannot work safely other way. It does not matter IMHO if you use screws, pins or lamellas. Good to here I am not wrong.
Wow! Even that particle/mdf board shows how strong it is nailed on the side. Was thinking of doing this for a tall (6') hanging linen closet made of 1/2 plywood, though. You reinforced my thinking. But, I will likely support with 2 horizontal cleats anyway. =)
Finally! I've been looking for this type of information for a long time. Thank you in advance.
Thanks! 👍
Doesn't tell the whole story though. He only addresses hanging cabinets. For a base cabinet, the primary load is compressing down on the top and having the top piece go through to the end will spread out the load a bit and never fail. It's not that critical in cabinets but in something that needs to bear a lot of compressive weight it's something to consider. I'd still go with this video's recommendation 9 times out of 10.
@@littlebrother82 Thanks. That's along the line of information I would like to learn. Do you have anymore to share?
@@Goalsplus I remember this coming up when someone was building a shop cart (mobile workbench). It was simple, a plywood base with casters, some ply corner uprights and a top. He had screwed the uprights into the side of the base, which would fail if under a bunch of weight. If the uprights go on top of the base, it could withstand much more punishment. I think he found a middle ground by adding an extra piece on the inside, so it ended up having the best of both worlds.
Sheer load, axial load. You can't unknow this. Thank you for the great video!
Soon in your local entertainment store : Peter Millard , the Ultimate dvd edition : the bloopers .Count me in ...
Haha - boxed set available this Christmas! 😂🤡👍
Still love your work
Yep - I like that you KEPT that bit when the track fell on your head too!
cant believe i got excited watching this. absolutely loved this, would love to gain experience in cabinetry work
This is not only high quality information but also high quality entertainment. Thank you so much!
Thank you! 😆👍
10 seconds into the video at I’m thinking to myself “this guys sounds cool I wish he was my uncle”. I’ve never used a power tool in my life but I’m getting the feeling I’m gonna watch every single one of these videos. 🤣
🙌😆👍👍