What do you know about turbocharger design considerations? | Garrett G-Series [TECH TALK]
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2018
- Harut Stepanyan from Turbo by Garrett runs us through some of the key considerations of the new ‘clean sheet’ designed G-Series. Using information gained from the GTX Gen2 development and feedback from both customers and Garrett engineers, the team have put together a turbo that not only has the all-important greater performance factor but also a clear focus to make aftermarket installation easier by the inclusion of fittings and adding water ports on each side of the turbo.
Put to bed is the common misconception that billet compressor wheels are responsible for better turbo performance and the reason why these turbos can now handle 1050° C instead of the old 850° C limit and also touched on is what makes new blade technology possible and what limits inducer size.
Want to learn how to tune EFI engines and precisely control the boost on turbo applications? Start here for free - bit.ly/freetuning
#highperformanceacademy #learntotune #garrett #alltheboost - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Duuuude, your questioning is perfect. Every question lead to a target, this leading to your perfect answers. Bravo 🙌
Cheers for the love mate, Andre will be chuffed. He puts a lot of effort in to do these the best he can for you guys - Taz.
@@hpa101 yeah man I can tell, he made for quite a review on the g series. He's like a bottomless pit full of all the right questions haha.
I know Im randomly asking but does any of you know a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly lost my password. I would love any assistance you can give me.
@Jamari Mauricio Instablaster =)
@Nikolai Ridge Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site through google and I'm trying it out now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
Your interviewing technique almost doesn’t require you to have a person to interview. You’re so knowledgeable you don’t really even need to have someone there. You feed them all the answers in your questions. ILOVE it
Nah we learn a lot from people like Harut on and off camera and couldn't do this without them :) - Taz.
Dingus Kahn Its the only way to get the information that your looking for, out of people
if you question with a target, you get the information that you want
I like your line of questioning not just in this video but others as well. It really helps differentiate knowledgeable manufactures vs those just winging it.
Greg Jenkins yea Andre would definitely bring out anyone's ignorance.
my favorite host. love the technical questions
Awesome information, I'm very interested in seeing how it stands up against the Borg Warner EFRs in terms of boost threshold and response versus maximum power output
Seeing as Garrett can't copy the integrated bov design, it will never beat the transient response of an EFR. IMO garrett is still playing catchup to efr 5year old tech. I'm just sticking with efr6258, 200whp to 500whp, 2000rpm boost threshold on a small 4 cylinder...
M M Have you ever seen a 6258 hit 500whp? I doubt a 44lb/min wheel can flow that much... And for transient response as soon as you roll on throttle the diverter valve closes so it's essentially "not there" anymore, not sure how that would affect spool-up/response?
the bpv on the compressor housing allows compressed air to stay in the housing between fast shifts, dramatically increasing transient response as you enter the next gear. Especially with no lift shifts.
There are a few people on mt.net in the mid-high 400whp with the 6258, two above 500whp on 6758, and none of them have fully optimized setups. Sure, you'd have to try pretty damn hard to hit 500whp on the 62... and I guess at that level, you should have the 67 anyways for better iats.
M M Who on MT has hit high 400's on a 62? I've seen Soviet at 458 and Savington at 452, both on 6758's. As far as I know I have one of the only BP's over 400whp on a 62.
For transient response, I'm talking about a situation like this: 10-15% throttle mid corner, rolling up to 100% on exit. That response won't be affected by internal vs external diverter valve.
M M most of the world is playing catch up to the IWG EFR series and in a lot more ways than just the internal gate and BOV. Their compressor efficiencies are just incredible and the dual true twin scroll turbine housing has a whole page of advantages over all others notably ignition pulse modulation volute design. I run a 91/80 and to be honest can’t see me running anything else other than a next gen version of the same turbo.
Damn this guy is the best. I have said it before and I will say it again, HPA is the best channel on TH-cam, period.
Matt Mead except project binky
Right. I'd hate to be on the other side of that microphone with Andre asking the questions. Lol project binky is the best in its own sense. But they are two channels in one category but on totally different aspects of the category.
I disagree! I was trying to learn how to cook a brisket and this channel did not help me in one bit! all the turbo did was make a mess of my brisket and everytime I rev my car, I smell burnt beef. But in terms of technical knowledge of cars, yes this is probably one of the best channels out there if not THE best
@@joshuaszeto 😂😂😂
Direct questions - direct answers. Very refreshing. Only suggestion is that when people start using acronyms, ask them to spell them out in words.
Cheers for the feedback Adow! Appreciate it :) - Taz.
Thanks for the video, very interesting. And good to see you keeping those PR guys on their toes!
Hey Harut, did you know that you're a PR guy now?
Andre sounds likes schoolin the Garrett rep. Lol. Love these videos. So informational and answers alot of questions buyers may or may not know to ask.
Your questions are so freakin good. Definetely top 1% content on youtube. Keep on that great work:)
Good questions andre and thank you for all your great videos. Looking forward to your next video.
Love how you extract the info from the experts without letting the experts talk to much marketing speak.
Exciting times ahead with this range of turbos. 👍
great interview as always
ANY Andre interview, "I actually know more than you about your product, I am here speaking with you to give you the opportunity to prove me wrong..."
HP Academy FL
Thanks Andre for bleeding out you brain on us!!🤘
haha it may sometimes look like that, but these guys who are usually behind the scenes know their stuff and are the source of a lot of Andres knowledge. Just about everyone out there knows something you don't at the end of the day =) - Taz.
We're all ignorant, just about different stuff!
Great interview. And questions ..
Nicely presented!
Great interview Andre
I wonder if Garrett will be limited one day in term of turbos efficiency without internal components size changing ? This is amazing the power potential turbos has today compared with old school turbos with the same compressor and turbines size !!
At least i find someone that know what he is talking about... I really need them to release the 30 series.
every cummins i have have garrett’s holsets gone, and every thing turbocharged i have, have garrett’s! i love em from a GT15 to a 4702!
That was a great interview! As soon as the G30 comes out I'm buying one! I was about to buy a G25-660 but now I've heard Harut mention G series 30 and 35 offerings I will wait. I'm hoping Garrett release a "G30-800". GT35 power (600bhp) with the spool of a GT30. Can't wait! Come on Garrett, take my money!!! :-)
G30-770 :)
Garrett could do worse than hire you as a mystery shopper to keep their reps on point.
I snapped off my oil feed w/restrictor on my G25-550. Good thing I checked before just slapping anything in there! 0.035 -4AN went back on, like it came with.
@4:50 he states; "there isn't much difference between a cast and forged wheel." That is where many of us have to disagree, there is a considerable difference in turbocharger response simply due to the fact that a forged or billet compressor wheel has much less mass compared to a cast compressor wheel. That alone is worth the additional cost, not to mention the improved durability.
Are there any back to back tests you can link using the same wheel with the only difference being cast vs billet? Interested to see - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/whats-a-billet-compressor-wheel-and-why-should-you-care/
Surely a forged item will have a higher mass due to being compressed into the rough shape before machining? Cast items generally have voids and defects which will make them less dense.
@@vanepico Are you a metals expert? This is a grand assumption on your part. Just pick the turbo that fits your power goals and be done with it.
@@dj4monie Any amateur metallurgist will tell you a cast material will be less dense than a forged material for the same volume. Great care must be put in, however, to avoid the machining of stress raisers into the forged part, as this will greatly reduce the strength. If you have ever seen the failure mode of a cast material, the fracture face is very rough, and you will often see voids, however the quality of casting in a turbine wheel will most likely be on the higher end, it still will not be as strong as a forged item, subject to machining quality. It is that extra density that gives it the extra strength.
Turbosmart do a 40PSi oil pressure regulator, called the "OPR" for the turbo, I've just bought one and plan to run a G25-660 .72 or .92.
who the hell will hate a video like this??? who!?????
The high performance booty and boobs searching guys.....They don not see this is Tech porn... hahahahaha hahahahaha
do they have variable stator vanes on the turbine inlet?
Great interviews you be holding! so, when selecting the proper turbine a/r housing for a 5 cylinder to be super effective with a 95lb turbo, what calculation is used for optimal performance in achieving quick response? .67 .87 . 90s' etc. And would a internal wastegate help aid in maximizing such system?
Sigh.... I would wait or you can get a G42-1200C if it's a FWD/AWD Audi. T4 housing will flow plenty and no there is no internal wastegate option. EWG aren't loud anyway unless you are at high boost and high load which would mean the last thing you should be concerned about at that speed is a little more exhaust noise.
Im really interested onthe new G series 28 or 30 wheels. There gonna be killer. Id like some more info on what it comes next and WHEN. Once again perfect video tho.
G2-550 and G2-660 replace the GTX28xx turbos and GTX29xx turbos. Twin 550's should make 900 whp without running them too hard. Twin 660's will do 1000-1100 whp. These and the new G3's which should be announced at SEMA in Sept (2019) will be the new replacement turbos for the G35 GTR community. A G2-660 is not good enough for me to replace my GTX3071 Gen II on my Focus ST. But if you buy a new ewg kit from ATP for the platform, it will easily make 500+ hp on race gas not even ethanol is needed.
Can you interview Robert Young at Forced Performance about the Xona Rotor turbo design with the UHF wheel, have not heard a single bad thing about xona. Seems to be very competitive and comparable to the G Series turbos.
Garrett definitely brought turbos to a whole new level. There is no denying that! With that being said, how are turbos bought on ebay (not an "ebay" turbo) making the same power, & for an eighth of the price?
I at least respect the guy who kept it 100% real about Billet verse cast not making more power oh, but that it has to do with efficiency. Because this is accurate. This also partially answers the question that I asked above. The thing is does this extra efficiency justify paying up to 10 times the amount?
We've been building race engines for years and we have found all too many times that these so called "ebay" or "China" turbos can make just as much power and in truth some of them can really last a long time. Sure some are junk but many are built quite well and even if their measurements such as trim, AR, etc, are off , and or you are looking to customize these turbos, this can be easily done, and for very cheap. And even if they don't have as good of an efficiency as the more expensive Garretts, Borg Warner, Etc, you could replace the cheaper Turbo twice & it still cost less than these more expensive turbos. My point is, how can Garrett truly justify this? And please don't tell me they make more power or these others just are so unreliable, because I know for a fact they are not. Not only from my crew using and Building engines with cheaper ones, but also from friends who use them add not to mention the countless people on the internet who do the same, and have never had an issue. Or maybe, just possibly, Garrett could bring some of the price is down somewhat to be more competitive. Because most people would still choose to pay the extra for a well-known brand name like Garrett, but not when it's hundreds of dollars more. And let's not mention that most people don't give a damn about efficiency. This is proven and how people do things. People can't even hold onto a car or phone for more than a couple years without having to upgrade to the next thing. So when they're selling it to the next guy do you really think they give a damn how long the turbo is going to last? Highly unlikely
If you don't want to justify the cost, then don't and buy your knock off Chinese turbo on Ebay. No old design turbo will spool decently under 3500 rpm and still make good power on a 4 cylinder engine. V8 owners shouldn't care about spool too much because they have plenty of displacement. Garrett's GTW is for people like you a good turbo, not the latest high zoot technology but a good journal bearing turbo that can be upgraded to ball-bearing since it shares it's basic structure with GT and GTX turbos.
One thing I've never understood is why they don't have greater oil flow back to the sump, so allowing a greater overall oil flow rate and hence more oil cooling?
💯
For spool is a 7+7 blade splitter more favourable than a 9 blade or 11 blade non splitter ?
Looking at turbo maps it looks like you can variable boost or variable mass airflow but not both. I am looking at an airplane flight envelope where atmospheric drops to 7.5 psi at altitude. Thoughts?
Is the GTX2867 of this new design? How does it compare to the Xona 5756? I'm looking to replacing the CHRAs on my 2013 Audi S6. Most people are going with a straight RS7 swap, I'd like to do better.
I think the G25-660 is an amazing turbo for my goals. But coming in at over $2k, it's hard not to consider a Gen 2 PTE5558 instead for a good deal lower price.
Pt5558 g2 very good spool and top end
Hell no precision turbos have bad quality control you’ll most likely need a rebuild after a year
I just bought two G25 550's can't wait to see how they perform on my Skyline
Any update?
@@soconoha8495 Check my channel out, already made some videos 👌
@S. K. Huh, why your reply is hidden is unclear. I can't view channels for some reason. Clicking on profile pics or user names does nothing, I need the '@user' link from a response, can't always get it to show up.
@@s.k.3911 Third time's the charm
@@soconoha8495 Did it work?
Nice work Andre.... those new G Series turbochargers sound like good street turbos... Any mention of price range?....
I think you can spec one out on Full-Race.com, and they start around $1.9k, which isn't bad considering the tech.
susanrc73 thank you..
When the Garrett guy mentioned the new G25-550 being the same as the older GT3071 revision 1, but with faster spool, what a/r would that be with do you think. I'm looking to buy one Thanks.
You're best to reach out to Garrett directly for this information :) - Taz.
@@hpa101 Depends on the engine and it does match the GT3071, not GTX3071 nor the GTX3071 Gen II. On a 2.0L engine I say about 480-500 whp on E85. Yes the spool will be faster it's about the same size as the GTX28xx turbine, only lighter and more efficient. For max power it will be either a .72 A/R housing or .92 both are available IWG and EWG.
Does dual ring seals mean that you can run the G-series with air restrictor classes and/or suck through carby?
Also, the specs of this turbo are amazing, enough to alter entire builds. The specs imply that if this T-25/T-28 sized turbo can flow 660hp, it's more than enough to feed my stock 4.0 AU (which whimpers out a cool 210hp out of the box, 250 if you let it breathe properly without boost). It should come on boost somewhat before the stock torque converter locks up, meaning that I no longer need short diff gears or a high stall to get the power down at low speed.
I mean I could be a real man and wait for the 30 or 35 sizes to come out, but then I'd be looking at trying to build an engine/box/diff combo to suit 800hp, and that shit costs some serious coin
Skippy
you can use any turbo to suck trought carb but you just need to adjust the throtle cable so the carb never closes all the way
Is anyone doing dual volute aftermarket performance turbochargers?
what turbo is equivalent to GTX3584RS gen2 .82AR t3
The G Spot IS real
Why don't we have dual shaft axial flow to centrifugal flow turbochargers?
I was hoping you were going to ask why they came out with single scroll housings
Might be a good question for the next interview, cheers - Taz.😎
@@hpa101 Awesome, cheers
Good job doing the "then what ?" with the interviewee. He sounds knowledgeable but also focused on specs and figures and fails to explicit the benefits to the customer in a real life situation. I know cause that's probably the way I sound as an engineer.
Its like theyre having a nod contest
How come most if not all turbos are still cast iron and alloy combo and not titanium or even carbon fibre other than the higher cost of materials?
Because people like you complain about $2,000 turbos that will make 500-600 hp. Yes will cost more to use those materials you knucklehead.
I’m confused on if the g2567r makes 660hp because the compressor map shows 61lbs/min while the efr 7670 makes 650hp with 64lbs/min
DGFr0sty efficiency difference
Compressor isn’t everything in power production either
Gotta get out what you put in too so turbine side is just as critical if not more so
Where is the confusion? The G2-660 is rated at 660 hp. On my Focus ST that is 585 whp based on 11.x % driveline loss on my Focus ST. That is assuming you have good intercooling and removed all the restrictions before and after the turbocharger. 7670 EFR is available with a T3 turbine housing but it's a B-2 frame turbo not the same larger turbine housing on the EFR.
why has garrett gone away from twinscroll turbos?
You can get a twin scroll housing for the largest G series turbos what are you talking about?
I see a bit of BW EFR influence
Mr.Flintstone I may be wrong but I think BorgWarner and Garrett are owned by the same main company
Oh great thanks Andre... now instead of getting a house I want a £1700 turbo charger -_-
Go on, the old you would have bought two =P - Taz.
Garrett, y'all need to come up with something to compete with Borg Warner's EFR line. They are so next-level, even being used on F1 cars. The Gamma-Ti turbine is ridiculously light and their strength increases with temperature, they spool so fast many say they feel N/A, and their IWGs flow like EWGs. I love Garrett, especially your reliability, so can you develop something comparable?
You did not listen to anything that was said! The G25 are just as responsive as the EFR's if not more so and the range will make more power because of better, newer compressor and turbine designs. G25-550 will spool the same or better than a EFR 6258/6758 and make more power, which max power around 480-490 whp. The G25-660 will make almost as much power as a GTX3071 while spooling more like GTX2860. EFR's lightweight turbines don't like to overspeed. But that really is only a problem with the larger B2-B3 frame turbos, likely nothing your interested in.
i know allot of car stuff, but I'm still confused on how to read a turbo surge map and how to calculate A/R ratio...
Then you don't know enough, I've never said that myself. Do what Garrett would tell you, buy a turbo by selecting your power level and be done with it. If you aren't racing ever that includes street racing, then the G2-550 is plenty of turbo if you need more hit it with nitrous, easy 600+ hp
The expression is “clean sheet design”
I'm sorry, maybe I missed the part where he explains why a turbo cost $4,000?
How much do you manufacture and sell high-quality turbos for Wak? 😜 - Taz.
@ChrisHallett83 got a link?
G30-770 VS GTX3582R FOR QUICKER SPOOL, GO 👇🏼👇🏼
Hey I recognize that guys last name you should interview him about his families championship winning integra. Search "edomotorsports" on instagram
I'll check it out. Cheers :) - Taz.
Who else is really itching to replace that obviously wrong sized copper or squash washer on the green screen or background? Why show bad install habits on an add? Wtf
Gen 1, Gen 2, than completely remapping...
In other words, you didn't build a turbo right in the first place when you are taking "Customer feedback" into consideration.
Sounds like better engineering is much in need.
Garrett is just copying Borg Warner, and the old inconel wheels were rated to 1050 deg c. The one thing garret has over BW is they have larger turbos, but they dont post all the compressor maps for them on their website.
well i will still use dual ball bearing turbo from ebay. only 500$ and 6 years warranty
Good for you. It's nice to have options =) - Taz.
High Performance Academy
you should buy one and test it.
they are pretty much same quality these days
Sounds like you might have some back to back results to share already from somewhere? Throw us a link, we're keen to check it out :) -Taz.
@@hpa101 he has no back to back data he just says that to make himself feel better about being cheap.
Keep talking, keep talking. Prove it.
Are EVs supposed to to put Garrett out of business like digital photography did to Kodak about 15 years ago?
In what capacity? EV's have been around since the late 1800's - Taz.
@@hpa101 I am not a fanboy of EVs at all. I belong to the group of still prevalent supporters of internal combustion applications. But I always think about business transformations in any sector. I don’t do that because I fancy fantasizing about a world where electricity is the only universal commodity. I do that because I don’t want to find myself trapped in uncomfortable positions related to economic activities of the past.
I know that in certain areas of the World like India, Africa and South America, internal combustion engines will continue to be the only available option for decent period of time in the future. These markets represent the present and the future for Garrett. Here the company should put every effort: market strategy, segmentation, customer requirements. Readjusting to a low-margin/high-volume business environment is the only way to avoid a rapid extinction scenario.
As far as Western Economies, these are no longer the prevalent markets for Garrett because in Europe and North America investments and research in combustion engines have stopped in lieu of batteries and electric engines. No substantial advancements will be made on the development of gas/diesel engines if not related to undesirable emissions. VAG, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia are now allocating 80% of their financial resources on electrification; 20% of investments are dedicated to environmental compliance of gas/diesel engines.
The problem is where we should put our savings, what we should do with our time, how we should spend our knowledge. What is the future of a company so heavily involved in such a narrow, closely restricted and secluded single business like Garrett? Better than what Kodak did 20 years ago the company should accelerate his involvement in new projects of operations downsizing, output adjustment, workforce reduction.
I think he's getting "forged" mixed up with "billet". Two different things there. Also billet wheels are usually lighter due to being a stronger material, less material is required to maintain strength. End rant.
Who's he?I surely don't think you were talking about the Garrett engineer???? If your talking about Andre that equally as stupid.
Xona turbos all the way!!! No one comes close to their turbos besides precision and borg Warner! Garrett trash
A turbo is only as good as its application. Use the wrong one in the wrong place and the logo on it won't help - Taz.
@@hpa101 of course. But you can’t say there isn’t a difference in build design, build quality, materials used , weight, ect. And as far as I know xona rotor has a specific design which improves airflow and efficiency. So based of xona improved designs and unique approach I like what they put out.
@@hpa101 so to say a ebay turbo vs a precision on the same application won’t make a difference, or isn’t a big difference because of so many other factors isn’t a accurate thing to say.
@@Paper.Power.Politics trying to use a cheap bottom shelf no brand turbo on a drag car which you're gunning for a world record with, is using the wrong turbo in the wrong application. I'm not sure how that is inaccurate.
You'd have to compare more than just 'I think the design is better' between any of the turbos you are looking at.
Not saying a Garrett will be the one you go for, but to just say off the cuff that a Xona is the best turbo for any application and budget regardless of any other factors is defiantly not an accurate or helpful thing to tell someone who is shopping for a turbo.
You are certainly not wrong to say that some brands are better known than others for quality, don't get me wrong there, but it's also easy for people to just roll with brand names rather than actually looking at the product. Anyone have have a solid brand name and still produce something substandard despite previous history, hence why more than the name is important - Taz.
@@hpa101 yeah your right , I agree with everything you say. I should have posted a less controversial comment, I was just hypin the turbo I went with lol was not tryin to say xonas are the best turbo perish because that’s isn’t accurate at all , and so many other factors come into play like you said.