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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2016
- Troubleshooting and repairing a C64C that doesn't produce sound output. This is a late 1991 ASSY250469 board.
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Thanks! - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
C64 repair ASMR. Just when I thought I had heard/seen everything.
Watching this, been a long time since I repaired a C64, and a friend bought one without a working SID chip. As I was watching this, the return key issue reminded me:
If you run across this in the future, CTRL + M will work in place of the return/enter key. Return/Enter is ASCII value 13 which is the same as CTRL + M.
I really enjoyed watching you work and shared your joy when the sound started playing!
Big fan of your videos, and favorites of mine to keep on while I work on customer equipment. I guess! :)
Oh, thank you! :D
I managed to repair a broken 64 that to your videos! thank you Jan
It took a while and you did have more than one problem to troubleshoot but it all worked out well and you have sound again. Thanks for the great instructional video.
This video helped me out. My C128 that I've owned since 1993 suddenly lost sound about 5 or so years ago. Over the years I had swapped SID chips, replaced transistors, nothing changed. I could get weak audio from a different DIN cable and good audio from RF. I watched this video about a month ago and then followed the traces on my C128 board from the DIN socket and found a corroded pad like this one. Soldered a patch wire and now it's got audio! Thank you so much! 👍
Oh, thanks for sharing! Happy this old video helped you! :D
YES it is the best selling computer of all time. Holds the Guiness Record
Oh, I didn't know that there's a Guinness Record for that. Nice! :)
Thank you for this relaxing video. I almost fell asleep:) very calming.
I have two C64C's. Both are late revisions circa 1991 E revision boards. One is the same as this one, the other is the 'rarer' but cheaper produced 'engraved' logo, with case clips instead of screws and no metal keyboard mounts.
Both of them have green LEDs.
Ah, nice. Interesting how they cut the cost even further with the clipped case. I think Commodore just randomly used the LEDs they found. I've seen various colors on various revisions now.
Impressive and very educational. Thanks for sharing with us!
In my case it was fuse clips, somehow 5V was not going thru. Unfortunately clips which I bought are too small so had to do some tricks to fix it. Anyway, your video was very helpful regarding doing measures. Thank you very much! Happy that my SID is still working ;)
Congratulations on the successful repair! I have a few C64s with various defects and am going to attempt some repairs myself. Your channel is great. I subscribed! :D
Thank you very much & welcome aboard! :D
Nice fix mate,you got there in the end, great video mate :o)
Jan sono contento che sei riuscito a ridare il suono al C64,lo sempre detto che sei un mito.grande come sempre.ciao.
Wonderful. I have a C64 board that I've been using for spares for some years. I am thinking now that I will try to repair it ;). Right now it is at the dishwasher; first time I use it, but it's so dirty ...
Sorry to be late to answer. I read about your dishwasher experience already. Glad it turned out so nice! :)
I just ordered a C64C from Ebay Sunday. It was an estate sale attic find. It will be my first classic bit machine. John Stevens
Nice! Hope it works and brings you lots of joy. :)
First thing get a new power supply for it.
A really interesting video, great job
Thanks! More C64 repair videos to come. :)
Went the long way round finding the fault, at least in the end he found it.
First rule is to check voltage, and the fuse you just check for continuity no need to replace it to see if it is working or not the DMM will let you know if it is blown or not.
Very educational. Love your videos. Have you ever thought about repairing Atari's too?
Thank you sir! I am very interested in Ataris but don't have any yet (except for my 2600). Especially the 8bits are lovely machines I am going to take a look at sooner or later. :)
Well done!
Thanks! Quite a bit of detective work finding the broken trace. :)
Would you mind sharing which diagnostic dead test version works on a 64C? Mine showed bad ram. Thanks again for all your great work
Just in case somebody is wondering. Getting ~12Vdc after the rectifier here is completely fine. 9Vac is shown as rms and it gets rectified to the p-p value. You can calculate Vp-p by V*1.41.
Yes, that makes sense. Thanks!
Old video I know, but still very interesting. The board seemed to be in a nice shape, and it's from 1991 so I'm a bit puzzled why it coroded there and nowhere else.
I would guess there was some kind of liquid damage, maybe some beverage got into the case from the bottom? (This was my very First C64 repair video, feels like forever ago…) :D
The 8500 was the HMOS version of the NMOS 6510. Much more efficient, didnt bake themselves to death.
Sieht nach einem ordentlichen Wasserschaden aus, oder absolut ungeeigneter Lagerung unter einem Überdach. Aber eine echt schöne Fehlersuche, systematisch und zielgerichtet...
These later short boards are the boards to have. Very reliable. I have many of these.
Yes, they are definitely more reliable and run cooler. Only downside is the use of the newer SID chips (I like the flawed 6851 better for some reason).
@@JanBeta I think in many cases it has to do with nostalgia and what you grew up with. My first C64 was a C64c with the 8580 SID. So that is my favourite SID. But If I'm not mistaken your first C64 was the C64 Aldi which has the 8580 SID? Yet, you prefer the 6581. I guess there are no rules without exception
Yes, my first C64 had the new SID, but I always thought it sounded weird (even back in the day) because my father had an old breadbox before and that was my first SID experience. ;)
I notice when you was looking at the sid chip. one of the pins to the keyboard header male pins was missing mine shows one pin at the end then a blank one then the rest of the pins. take a look at yours.
Hi. Yesterday my c64 has lost sound. I have changed fuses on mainbord and in power supply. I hope, tat on your channel i will found solution of my problerm Jan...
Just started troubleshooting my C64 from this vid. Verified the fuse was good, hooked up the multimeter to the 6581 and confirmed 12v on p28, 5v on p25, and the sid is warm when running. Unsure what to look for next. If it helps I get no sound out of RF nor RCA. Open to suggestions!
Hello sir! Where did you find the pinouts for rhe 64C? I have being looking but can't find much. I am working on my 64C and really could use that information
Just google the part numbers for the individual ICs. Works for me,
I have a breadbin C64 with the 6581. All my bass notes are missing. I have run tests on the SID and the low-pass tests are completely silent. New chip necessary?
Unfortunately, no sound at all on the filters most likely means the filters are blown.
However, if you don't want to give up just yet and have no other C64s to try swapping the SID into you could try:
1. Reseating the SID chip (unlikely to make any difference)
2. Replacing the filter capacitors
On the breadbins caps are 470pF ceramics on pins 1+2 and 3+4 of the SID. I think they're marked C10 and C11 on the board, just to the left of the SID.
I definitely wouldn't hold my breath though.
Thank you. I will give it a try.
Hello Jan, what do you use for outputting the video from the VICII to the lcd monitor?
is it a TV with composite in?
I think for this video I used an Elgato TV USB stick to get the signal in my PC and then on to the monitor.
Very interesting, thank you for the troubleshooting tips! I have a mint C64G (the flatter breadbin in bright beige with dark keyboard) that has the C64E mainboard. I have this SID voltage problem intermittently, i.e. on some days 0.2x V (SID is mute) and on others 9.0x V (SID works). Traces, board, fuse, 9V supply look fine. Is it possible that a dodgy 9V supply could cause this, or what other possibilities do you see?
If it’s intermittent, it’s most likely a contact problem. See if you can reproduce the fault by lightly knocking on the board/cables/power connector. I found that the power switch is a weak spot in all C64s, maybe you have an intermittent connection there. The 9V rail from the PSU very rarely fails as it’s coming directly from the transformer.
@@JanBeta Thanks a lot, I'll try the knocking trick! 9V seemed to come in fine through the switch even when the SID was not working, so it seems it's somewhere between switch and SID, will have to follow all the traces. I'll keep you posted :)
Check the SID socket, too. Sometimes they don’t make good contact after all those years. Happy hunting!
@@JanBeta Thank you, will do!
Schönes Video :-)
I would of run the wire through the via (if it fitted through) and run it between both traces directly, to bypass the via, which looks bad.
Ah, I somehow didn't remember that these things are called "via". You're right. running a wire through probably makes for a sturdier connection here. I'll try and do that before I assemble the C64 again (cleaning the keyboard and case atm). Thanks!
I guess it's quite off topic but do anyone know of a good site to stream newly released tv shows online?
You should use Fast Blow fuses on a C64 to be on the safe side ;-)
Just like my girlfriend :D
Nice job. Did you ever find the secret ending to Bubble Bobble that's only accessible by 2-player? Not sure if all versions had it.
I recently played through the C64 version (using cheats) with a friend and it had the normal ending except for slightly different text on the end screen. There may be other versions though.
I got a C64c NTSC with the new board inside, off eBay and it has no sound. I tested it with multiple PSUs, 1702 monitors, and video cables. I did a ton research and I can say this: There is an 8580R5 into it, and it gets 8.9v on pin 28 and 4.95v on pin 25, and the fuse isn't blown. Now, if I turn the monitor sound to maximum level, I can slightly hear the music. This makes me believe the SID isn't blown either. Would you have an idea of what could cause this? Or how I could diagnose the issue furthermore? Thanks!
In my experience, the SIDs can gradually fail so it might be yours is broken in a weird way. Otherwise I would check for weak connections/broken traces. Maybe there's a grounding problem. I'd trace the audio out from the SID to the connector bit by bit and see if there's too high resistance anywhere. The sockets are often causing problems if they are corroded. Otherwise it's likely a broken SID. Hope that helps!
There is an transistor which amplifies the audio signal, trace the signal and look if it's broken.
Sorry if this is a repeat question. What model Philips LCD is that?
It's a 247E. But to get a picture from a C64, you need to connect an upscaler/converter because it only has HDMI and VGA inputs. I'm using a Ligawo composite to HDMI thing which does the job but isn't very good.
Thanks, Jan! I was curious if it had a native s-video / composite input. I've got an S-Video to HDMI box on order. I hope it does better than the S-Video to VGA box that I currently have. :)
Welche Farbe die Power LED an meinen C64c hatte weiß ich nicht mehr aus dem Kopf, ich sollte den mal wieder abschließen. Allerdings weiß ich noch, das ich der einzige in meinen Freundeskreis war, der orange-grün an der 1541II hatte. Das wiederholte sich interessanter Weise an nächsten Computer, einen Amiga 600, alle bekannten mit A500 und 2k hatten grün-rot.
Soviel ich weiß, hatten die früheren A500s und A2000s grün/rot und später dann alle Amigas die orangenen LEDs. Bei den 1541-II war es vielleicht ähnlich, nur dass von den orangenen nicht mehr so viele produziert wurden?
@@JanBeta Könnte hinkommen, der A500+ meines Vaters, der noch jünger als mein A600 ist, hatte auch grün und orange. Beim C64 war ich auch der letzte in meinen Freundeskreis der einen bekommen hat, davor hatte ich einen C16. Mit ist das so stark in Erinnerung geblieben weil ich damit der Exot war, sie anderen hatten immer rot grün 😉.
Mach weiter so!
my sound is gone and my data cassette has no power, am i right in believing that i need to get a new power supply ? , i swapped the fuse on the board like you did and ive checked for corrosion etc, im really hoping for a quick fix by replacing the psu :)
check for presence of the 12 Ac volts from power supply output first is a suggestion
what does the 12v power, forgot to mention the c64 works fine, i can play games etc just no noise or data cassette power, thanks for answering
I am going to correct myself the C64 power supply itself puts out a regulated 5 Volts DC and around "9 volts AC unregulated (can be slightly higher unloaded) check that the 5 volts DC from the power supply runs within 4.95 - 5.1V when older C64 power supply's start to fail the regulated 5 volts starts creeping up once it goes above 5.5 volts it can damage your machine this why I sugest checking it, The 9 Volts "AC" powers among other things the Sound hardware and Data cassette port ,, (after being converted DC and then "regulated" to proper voltages on the C64 motherboard , checking the 9 volt AC from the power supply can be done by measuring AC voltage on c64's power input between pins 6 and 7 , if the power supply voltages are missing or the regulated 5 volt DC is too high ,, you have proven that the power supply is defective , if the voltages are present , then the problem is in the c64 itself and not the power supply itself..
awesome thank you
I had sound before with RF, after buying the AV cable I connected yellow for video and white for Audio yo the monitor, after that went with no sound at all, people say buy a new SID, I just did, nothing happens, the 9 volt fuse has a wire inside I assume that it's working, what can be mi issue, please help
If you have a voltmeter, check continuity in the fuse (sometimes it looks good and is still broken) and if the 9V actually get to the SID. Check if the cable you are using makes contact. If you don't have a voltmeter/multimeter, I'd rather invest in one of those before you buy a new expensive SID.
make sure that the cable you used is correct for a C64. The 64 has 12V. on one of the pins.
I have the same issue. I don't even measure any AC voltage on the pins of my power supply when its unplugged from the machine.
Depending on your PSU version, there may be a seperate fuse for the 9V in there too.
Jan Beta Ther is no sign of a fuse on the outside. It’s marked “Do not open”. Would it be wise to open it anyway?
+Laurens Van Poucke If it’s one of the models that has screws you can easily open it. There should be one or two fuses you can check inside. If it’s one of the (more common) glued shut models (no visible screws) it’s pretty difficult to open unfortunately.
Jan Beta I’ve got one of the common ones. So I’ll have to get another PSU.
Thanks Jan. Love your videos btw!
i am getting very weak sound on my c128 any idea's
Could be a broken SID chip or some weak connection on the way to the audio out. Maybe even just a broken cable?
Yes! Here is my idea lol. th-cam.com/video/w9gOQgfPW4Y/w-d-xo.html
It's young peter?
Just needs some retro bright.
*super close up of keyboard*
HOLY SHIT!!!!! THAT'S DISGUSTING!!!!
Hello, I just received similar board with sound not working...
The fuse is also missing. I don't have replacement yet, so I shortened it temprorarily, and started measuring.
So, I have 5V on SID, but also no 9V on it. I tried to measure for AC power and it turned out that between ground and power socket pin there is only 5,3 AC, and power supply is completely fine. I measured it and it gives 13V AC.
Do You have any clues what might be wrong?
There is a photo of measurement
goo.gl/photos/xCUnUb1FsKNCEPxw7
I think you have to measure the AC voltage from the power supply between pins 6 and 7 (if I remember correctly) of the power jack and not referenced to ground. Otherwise you won't get a correct reading. The 9V arriving at the SID socket should be rectified, so you have to measure 9VDC there referenced to ground. Bridging the fuse is never a very good idea in my experience if it blew for a reason. You might damage some components (including the SID) if there's something weird going on. So always better to wait for a fitting fuse. (I know it's hard sometimes...) ;)
Hmmm, I think that SID is already burned. I measured as You suggested, there is 12V AC between pin 6 and 7.
about 20 seconds after turning power SID gets really hot. there is 6V DC between pin 28 and ground.
When I remove SID and do measurement again there is 9V DC on 28th pin.... So probably someone removed fuse because of burning SID... It's a shame because it is rather hard to find replacement....
+Anatol Ogórek Yes, I think your analysis is correct, sadly. Seems like the SID is gone. The C64 should work perfectly without it (minus sound, of course) if that was the only problem.
the SID also served as the PRNG (PseudoRandom Number Generator) which made the SID essential to most programs needing randomization so it can easily be a big problem.
The most difficult is to repair an angry woman with no sound
oh that will fix it self by time.
MultiArrie finally someone understood me
-Darling are you mad at me?
-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO