Replacing Beretta: the S&W XM10 Trials Pistol
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When the US adopted the Beretta Model 92 as the new M9 standard issue handgun in 1985, it was not without controversy. In particular, there was a scandal of cracked and broken M9 slides shortly after procurement began. The military did not budge on awarding the M9 contract to Beretta, but in 1987 they did open a new procurement competition for an M10 pistol, which would supplement the M9. The Army needed 142,000 more handguns, and they were willing to buy something different if something could outperform the M9.
Two series of trials resulted. In the first one, four companies submitted designs - S&W, Tanfoglio (TZ-99), Ruger (P85), and Browning (BDA). The S&W entry was an improved version of their XM9 design; a variation of the Model 459. This was a double-stack, SA/DA pistol with an aluminum slide and steel frame. It had larger than normal sights, an ambidextrous safety/decocking lever, and phosphate finish. It was also supplied with an extended 20-round magazine for the trials. A total of 40 pistols were made, and they performed well enough to get into the second round.
In that second round, the contenders were reduced to S&W, Ruger, and the Beretta M9 as a control. The Beretta performed best, and as a result the M10 designation was scrapped and the Army simply filled the rest of its handgun needs with M9 Berettas.
H&K's entry into the XM9 trials:
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The Smith and Wesson automatics of the 1970s to 2000s are so weird. Perfectly adequate, reliable and accurate, but overshadowed by every better handgun of the era. A near forgotten series of aluminum and metal frame handguns overshadowed by CZ-75s, berettas, and later Glocks.
Well, the S&W Thrid Generation semis really were the US police semiautomatic to beat. Which Glock later did by simply underbidding Smith right out of the picture.
I think they were *somewhat popular at least? Quite a few guns ended up using sw automatics magazine, namely Marlin camp 9
They have some classic profiles that let you know they're a S&W right away. We had a 910 come in earlier this year which was finally sold a few months ago. For whatever reason, S&W's semi-automatic pistols are largely passed up for professional use, despite their Model 39 being the first widely adopted semi-auto by a major police department (Illinois State Police). Scratch that, I just looked it up and there are a few major departments and agencies that issue or authorize various M&P pistols.
I consider S&W revolvers to essentially be equivalent to Glock in terms of law enforcement use during their heyday. Through the '80s, you could almost guarantee a S&W Model 66, 19, or other .38/.357 was in the holster of Officer Friendly. Now, you can say the same about a Glock 17 or 19. Were there Colts, Rugers, and other revolvers issued to cops way back when? Of course, just as some departments issue SIG Sauer, FN, S&W, and other pistols nowadays, but hopefully everyone gets the point.
@@george7951the reason I didn't pick up a prestine camp 9 a few years back was nagazines.
Personally I think 3rd gen smiths are about as good as it gets for 90s early 2000s carry guns
If you need to find a military piece that they only made 70 or less of, then Fireplace Guy is your go-to. He has everything inconceivable.
So true. Fireplace Guy" even has some pretty scarce first semi auto handguns... truly a connoisseur of firearms. Ian has an interview video with him...
His name is Len.
I purchased an Italian-made 92SB in 1982 and it never gave me any trouble despite a few thousand rounds shot through it over 40 years of service. I serviced M9 and M11 pistols as an armorer but didn't know about the S&W XM-10.
Thanks--my quota is "learn something new every day." This video fixed that.
Quota?
I have a surplus Italian made 92S, with the Euro mag release, circa 1978. It's a beast, but incredibly smooth in the action. Minus the grips, not a piece of plastic in it. They sure knew how to build them.
Would you say the 92's are a flawed platform?
@@dwardodwardo643 Not in my experience. They're not perfect. the 92's are too large for most pistol missions but can be made to work. I regularly exercise my own Beretta at 100 yards shooting distance.
A 92FS isn't too large. A good trigger, external hammer and excellent precision require room. It's like many Italian things excluding everything but expensive shotguns, it's worth the trouble.
S&W autos weren't overshadowed by anything. They were mainstays in law enforcement during the 80s and 90s. They disappeared, seemingly overnight, because S&W determined there was far higher profit margin in plastic pistols. They were correct, since the 3rd gen pistols were always expensive to produce. The company didn’t hang onto them as legacy designs like Beretta and Sig, they just dropped them like a hot rock and they were finished. S&W 3rd gen pistols were the equal of anything produced by the competition.
Yep. On the money, all counts.
The saddest of them all is the final run, the 4006TSW CHP guns, from when Smith had to take the machines back out of storage. Full rail, overtravel stop trigger with light return spring, Novaks, just a fantastic shooting pistol, and the clear best ever of the breed. Then Smith shitcanned the whole line for good, because they lost huge amounts of money on each one.
Many California State LE agencies still use S&W today
Ergonomics are superior on the Berettas. The trigger is far better - in fact I believe you cannot get a really good DA trigger pull on the 3rd get S&W because the trigger cams against aluminum frame, and it's never going to feel smooth . I have a stainless frame one that does feel great, but I understand those were rare.
No, you have it wrong. First they lost most of their entire market to plastic pistols, then decided they better compete.
Ah, yes the solid, but massively underrated and underappreciated S&W pistol line ...
Always loved them. They feel a bit more special than the Berretta/Glock/1911s out there
Have to respectfully disagree. I love my M39--it's a beautiful pistol and fits the hand perfectly. The double stacks--like the M59, are terrible. I can't think of a firearm that is less ergonomic.
Love the old 5904 I have. Good solid reliable pistol at great prices on the used market.
I remember as a teen, 1988 Big Blue told gun shops, police 🚔 buyers; the new high tech 3rd gen could feed-cycle empty cases! 😮 A bold claim. Many cops & troopers did see 4046s 5906s 4546s 415s, 3946s, 6946s, 1006s.
@@andywindes4968 ergonomics are funny like that. We're all built at least slightly different, some more so than others.
I always liked the 3rd Gen S&W autos. Back when they were widely available nobody wanted them. Now that Smith stopped making them everyone wants them and they are driving prices up to insane levels.
Many years ago I worked with an LE firearms and ammo dealer and I wholesaled and shipped their police trade-in firearms. Instead of being paid in cash I'd get paid in guns, ammo, or anything else I wanted. At the time the M&P was just introduced and gaining popularity and many agencies traded their 3rd Gen Smiths for them. As payment I would take one of every pistol that came in if I didn't already have it. I had one of most of the models in every variation there was. Fixed and adjustable sights square and round triggerguard, etc. I was one of about 5 people alive who actually understood S&W model numbers, even better than the engineers at times since they occasionally screwed up assigning model numbers.
Take the 6906. It's one of my favorite S&W pistols, but the 6906/6946 should actually be named the 6903/6943 since it has an aluminum frame with a SS slide. It shouldn't be called the 6906/6946 unless it had both a SS slide AND frame.
Smith should have numbered their models like Sig with a basic model number with different options like materials, action types, etc.
My old department had as S&W model 39 available for issue. I got it as an extra off-duty piece. I wound up toting it for duty a few times on the street, once under cover, and anytime I wound up doing water patrol (no way was I risking my SIG in the Gulf of Mexico). It shot great, felt great, and is still one of my favorite classic 9s from that era. Hated turning it in when I retired.
The 59 series line of pistols and it's dao companion guns are seriously underappreciated.
I always liked my dad's 59 :-)
The reason they are "unappreciated" is because they often didn't work.
@@user-vg3yc6gk5f I've heard that about the 1st generation 59s 39s and 69s. 2nd and 3rd generations and the single stack and dao companion guns in my own experience reliable.
@@somedudeinminnesotaFirst gen guns wouldn't feed hollow points right - and cops, trained on revolvers, tended to limp wrist. By the time you get to the mighty 5906, it's as reliable as any other semi-automatic, so long as you don't pistol whip anyone with it. (The spring will fly out of the butt!)
I like my 5906
Always know it's going to be something rare & interesting when we see the two bronze tricorne hats either side of the fireplace sticking above the lip of the table.
I've always wondered why Smith and Wesson pistols have been so popular and well regarded among police, yet almost entirely discarded by militaries.
It makes the "Military and Police" name of the M&P line even funnier.
Maybe because their revolvers were the choice for many year...brand loyalty and all.
I was issued a M19 Smith in 1973 when I signed on the PD. I wanted my own pistol so I purchased a Colt Trooper MkIII I took it to the Academy when I went for police basic the trigger broke during live fire on the range. Disappointed, I finished with a State Issue Model 10. I sent the pistol back to Colt for repair, it came back with a new trigger and the sweetest trigger pull I ever saw on a Colt, and I have fired the Python and Diamondback.
Couldn't even beat a Beretta 92 with two chances to do so. Smith & Wesson fanboys will be incensed. But (actually owning 2 SW autoloaders) you have to be realistic.
@@Nickrioblanco1it's the US military lowest bidder with the most friends gets the contract
Very cool video Ian. I carried a Smith 5906 for many years and was a Smith aficionado back in the day. I don't recall ever hearing about this pistol. Interesting piece of firearms history.
I always like the S&W autos. I carried a 4506 as a duty weapon, and a 6906 for off duty use. They seem obsolete now. But, they were built like tanks.
I have a S&W 459 from 1985/86 and it is in a polished blue finish. Remarkable firearm. Very accurate and it has never jammed with a multitude of loads. It has adjustable sights and dual decocking levers.
I've always said that the 1970s/80s metal-framed S&W autos are some of the best handguns around.
Yes, they're heavy.
Yes, they aren't small.
...But they are built like a damn tank and are very reliable.
Cool pistol! I remember my dad having the S&W model 39, which was a single stack 9mm! I loved that pistol! I never liked the feel when it went to the double stack. I wished dad had kept the 39! 😊
This looked like a cool version.
Thanks for sharing, Ian!
I have a 459 and it's a fantastic pistol. Mine has the squared checkered trigger guard, ambidextrous safety, and the high-profile adjustable rear sights. I've had it at least 20 years and it's the most reliable and accurate 9mm I have ever owned.
To this day I still carry a Daewoo DP51, which is a derivation of this used by the South Korean military (as the K5 pistol), which I carry with Mecgar S&W 5900 series 15-round magazines & LHI mag pads (to keep from over-insertion in the shorter mag well). Also, has the same tri-action trigger system as the Browning BDA, but is otherwise functionally very similar to the S&W 5900s using most of the same accessories, etc.
And if you really want a "modernized" S&W 5900 series, you need to look at the Lionheart Industries (LHI) Regulus (and now Vulcan 9) pistols being built in Winder, GA on tooling they purchased from S&T Motiv (formerly DPI) to produce the K5/DP51 and then refined. Not cheap, but a more accurate pistol than the K5 with all the new features that folks expect now.
These failed trial firearms vids are always interesting. Would love to see a Joint Combat Pistol program (2005-2006) video, but something tells (rather like this XM10) the 10x various models tested are super-rare "in the wild", as you say.
What's funny about that trial is most of the companies that submitted entries for the Joint Combat Pistol program actually sold their entrant on the civilian market for a time with the exception of Para Ordnance, Ruger, and Taurus. Beretta, FN, Glock, and H&K still sell theirs. SIG, S&W, and Springfield did sell theirs but have been supplanted by updated versions in their product line. I agree though would be a great video.
@@gunzablazin01I don't think you could straight up buy the exact same Taurus as the trials gun, but I know for a fact you could order from Taurus the threaded barrel and hi-top sights necessary to put your 24/7 into JCP spec. Same goes for Para, although I don't think you could get all the features at the same time. Only one absolutely unavailable was Ruger, whose P345 was and is occasionally found out in the wild but which was never sold with a threaded barrel.
Ian: Which “Forgotten Weapon” made itself known by taking that chunk out of your left knuckle?
Haha. Thank you for all the great work you do.
Thanks again Ian for bringing us something we really haven’t ever seen before.
I have a 659 stainless version of the 459 and it is an awesome gun and i have probably 150,000 rounds through it and besides changing springs every now it then it still works awesome.
The facts on the Ruger entry would be awesome.
My first "wonder 9" for duty carry was a Smith M59. It was an OK pistol, not a great one. I shot well with it and always qualified at the top of my Department, that said I was a reloader and shot at least a couple times a week where most officers never used the one box of practice ammo issued with their issue revolvers (Model 19's back then). I didn't like the double action trigger on the 59 and I guess that was what put me off on it. I sold it and replaced it with a M1911A1 (AMT Hardballer) which I replaced with a run of the mill service M1911A1 down the road, the Hardballer was a disappointment for me I had a lot of trouble with mine, I think AMT didn't have great quality control back then (80's)
I have a strange curiosity with everything XM9, thrilled to see this video
Overlooked the firing pin block, providing true drop safe. The “safety” lever is primarily used to decock.
My 6906 is my favorite semi-automatic handgun, partly because it’s all metal.
Older S&W semi autos deserved more love, imo. One example: I don't think much about trigger reset, but I know it's a big deal for many these days. If you are a quick and tactile reset fanatic and haven't tried an old S&W pistol, you need to. When discussions of trigger reset became more common I went though my pistols to re-evaluate them with this feature in mind, and my old '80s vintage 669 has a single action trigger reset that is almost magical in quality. It's like as soon as you even think about easing pressure on the trigger, it's already there with an audible and tactile click, then a light, smooth pull for the next shot.
Try one of the IPSC Super 9s sometime. Absolutely unreal how short of a trigger those have I actually have to be careful about doubles.
My first handgun was a S&W 915, a model 59 variant. It was a really nice pistol, always thought it (imo) would've been a great option for a military sidearm.
Mine too! Amazing shooter, never jammed in a thousand plus rounds
I bought mine brand new in 1993 and I still have it to this day. It always go bang whenever I pull the trigger.
@@Resdep2001 got mine as a gift from my father back in 2001-02 can't remember, on my tenth birthday. Pop had a Gen 3 4516
I have a 469. I bought it new in 1988. Still shoots great. It's very similar looking to these 459's.
Aaaah, the fireplace guy. What an amazing collection.
1:10 Trial Deficiencies
2:39 Magazine Details
3:27 Markings & Finish
4:20 S&W 459 vs XM10 Trials
6:25 Mechanical Operation
7:11 Disassembly
9:34 Condition of this Example
10:29 Historical Context of Trials
Friendly Reminder that 327 Federal Magnum is the Best Snub Nose Revolver Cartridge! It can chamber 32 S&W Short or Long which have zero recoil. Plus 32 H&R and even 32 ACP since it’s a semi-rimmed cartridge!
Happy to hear someone else giving the .327 federal magnum some love
@@AA-qd7vk ❤️
Dang, now good reminder of a cartridge that is a almost was.
@@DB-yj3qcThis is Forgotten Weapons..
The Smith and Wesson 59 series were decent pistols and generally well-liked by the personnel of agencies which issued them. They're still perfectly adequate for self-defense, although much less popular since the advent of striker-fired polymer-framed pistols.
The problem with Smith and Wesson back in the 1970s through 80s was their lack of quality control. There used to be a besmirching statement about Smith and Wesson that "Engineering designs it. Marketing sells it. Warranty and repair makes it work." Plus. Smith and Wesson was over saturating their product line with handgun of the month, which created confusion amongst the buying public as the monthly changes were only cosmetic.
The current owners of Smith and Wesson had apparently stepped up the quality control over the last decade or so.
Absolutely, the Punta Gorda guns were crap, I had a 639 that was made in 1987, it was the first handgun I ever owned and it was terrible, metal filings fell out of it when I took it out of the box.
Just like Sig's gun of the month nowadays.
They were the first American made 9mm's to be worth buying.
My EDC back then was a S&W 669.
Smith made the 20 round magazines commercially, they were not made with the travel stop for anything other than the XM10 trial. Most of the 20 round magazines were bought by people who also bought the Marlin Camp 9 carbine
I inherited one of the 20 rounders, along with my Dad's 669. It was one of his off-duty weapons along with a 2 1/2 inch Model 66. The grip on the 669 is a little chunky, but the gun shoots well.
Interestingly, these are what the excellent Mec-Gar 20-clipz are patterned off of, not the Marlin ones. The Mec-Gar mags have a stop too.
I have 6 of the original mags with the stops....
You should cover the M11 pistol trials. Interesting to see your take on the SIG and why it won.
Some people got very rich from the selection...
@@worldwideblueProbably not sig, at 205$ per unit
Because sig underbid everyone by conveniently forgetting to factor in the cost of ammo
Another interesting thing to note is I believe this pistol was the first to use the squared trigger guard and dual safety decockers, features that would become standard on the 3rd gen S&W Autos that would release a year later.
The duel safeties was an option, I have some that have them and some that don't, I like the dual safeties.
The ambi safety was an aftermarket option for gen 2s, and was sold as a factory option for the gen 3s.
@@j.murphy4884 I have a 659 which is gen 2 that I bought new back in 1986 with factory ambi safety and adjustable sights so they did make the ambi safety as a factory option.
I completely rebuilt an original 70s production M59 that was reimported by century arms after serving as an Israeli police gun. It was so blown out and nonfunctional, completely got had by the place I bought it from. Actually ended up replacing every part except the slide and frame. Who knows how many thousands of rounds it’s fired, I’ve put another thousand rounds though it since rebuilding it. Vary impressed by its quality over all, love to get my hands on one of the 915s.
The Israelis usually don't surplus stuff unless it's worn out, also learned that one the hard way. There's some security guard stuff that is in okay condition, but you've definitely got to be careful.
@@steven-k. ya when I say blown out, I mean it the frickin extractor spring was literally a bic pen spring, and they busted the whole rear sight locking tab off, and instead of replacing it they drilled into the slide and re-attach it with machine screws…….. unbelievable. I joke that I’m an honorary M59 armorer now since I had to learn that thing inside and out to diagnose and fix it. Barrel was also completely toasted with massive pits. I fixed it also outta spite….. now I have a $800 M59, found a one owner in the box 1974 produced one with all its paper work and original factory steel mags for $500 so I carry the beat to shit police trade in and keep the nice one in its box.
When able could you please do a full length video on the Savage 99, yes I know you’ve already done a short video on David Royal’s book but I think it would be fitting to do a full length video on this very unique lever action rifle
I think it would be interesting if you were to make a video comparing the evolutionary steps of the browning pistol designs. Like the dual/single link, the different lock variants and so on.
Or evolution of s&w autoloading pistols.
Give it enough years, I'm sure C&Rsenal will have the most extensive coverage of the full history of Browning auto pistols from the OGs to today. Eventually. Maybe like a decade from now, but they'll probably do it LOL.
Yes please look into the Browning BDA
What difference does a parkerized barrel have compared to non-parkerized barrels?
Parkerisation is done to improve corrosion resistance. No doubt they expected these items to endure more abuse than civilian ones. It has the added benefit of blacking out the bright metal.
Oil retention
Parkerization does wonders on corrosion resistance for cheap and, reading the requirements of the XM9-XM10 program, it's evident the US Army at the time cared A LOT about corrosion resistance and practically nothing about resistance to sandy environments.
Unfortunately, parkerization and sand are instead a recipe for disaster, since sand tends to stick to parkerized surfaces, so we can have an idea on how this pistol would have performed in the next 30 years, had it been adopted.
I have a 5903 its a great pistol has a super short trigger reset and is very fast
I used a S&W 459 for practical pistol shooting for several years only thing I did was fit an extended mag release and packmire grips
When the 459 came out to replace the model 59, I was not very impressed. I had seen the future. I had seen a Glock. I did get a 5904 and a few of the other third-gen S&W crunchentinkers. I was always more impressed by the CZ-75. In an alternate universe, we'd have CZ-75's... probably still. No need to replace them. Great gun.
one of the most reliable guns I've ever seen was the Smith & Wesson model 410 .40 caliber..... incredibly nice gun
Every time i watch one of Ian's videos, i here jack nickelsons joker: "where does he get those wonderful toys"
Military pistol trials have evolved quite a bit over the past 125 years. Way back when, you had designs that, while usually evolutions of earlier pistols, were purpose-built for the military. The M1911 (evolved from the M1900) and the Luger (evolved from the Borchardt C93) are good examples of this. Many Western countries have benefitted from the US' (mostly) gun-friendly culture, with a lot of service pistols being simply beefed-up commercial firearms that have service-mandated features. For example, the Glock (of course, originally designed for the Austrian military) submitted for the XM17/18 trials had a manual safety added. When it was passed up in favor of the SIG P320, Glock simply removed the safety and now sells it as the G19X. Even foreign-based manufacturers know that there's a big market in the States for rugged defensive pistols, so failing a military trial won't bankrupt them.
My last two years in the Army were spent working for PEO Soldier, which supervised the testing and fielding of the M17/M18 and the NGSW systems. I worked for a different Program Management Office, so had no input or insight into the adoption process of those weapons. The M9 that the SIG replaced (or course, the P228 became the M11, itself now replaced by the M18) was a great pistol for its day, but by the early 2000s was nearing the end of its service life. A lot of Vets have a poor opinion of the M92/M9, but I've owned my 1988-production M92F for 27 or so years and still love it. It's a tack driver, though it also has far fewer rounds through it than any of the M9s I maintained in various Arms Rooms. I own a G17 and G45 MOS, and those are my preferred carry pistols these days over the Beretta, due to their lesser weight and slightly higher capacity.
This XM10 trial gun is a piece of history, and I'm glad there are still some relatively unblemished examples. A lot of research and work goes into adapting pistols for military usage. You'll notice that generally, law enforcement doesn't necessarily demand a manual safety, while the military does. On the other hand, law enforcement has waxed and waned on the magazine safety, while the military does not want them.
I saw a video of a guy saying how much he hated the M9 while in the service, only for the civilian version of the 92 to become his favorite gun once leaving (remember folks, your standard issue is made by the lowest bidder!)
@SonicsniperV7 The M9 was made by Beretta, but the magazines and probably some replacement parts were largely contracted out. My commander came to me in Iraq 20 years ago to check out his M9. He could only get it to feed if he fired it upside down. The Check-Mate magazine he had in it had a broken spring, which was common at the time.
Thirty-plus years is a long service life for a military pistol, especially for an aluminum-framed one like the Beretta. I know people will bring up the 40 years between the last new production M1911A1 and the adoption of the Beretta, but I've heard stories of those steel-framed pistols that were continually rebuilt being inaccurate and sounding like a spray paint can when shaken.
I'm curious to see how the polymer-frame M17 and M18 hold up in the coming decades. I guess those are easy to refurbish, given the serialized Fire Control Unit and replaceable grip modules.
Leave it to Len to have another wickedly rare pistol for Ian to share. (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
when you can only make revolvers and having no experience of making a pistol so you combined m1911 and beretta together so you can try and make a good bootleg looking gun
Correction @6:48 - slide-mounted, not frame...
❤ i love this! It's like the precursor to the S&W 5906 (adopted by 90s leo) mod 915, & Military 5900 series for SF!😎👍
I see Colt M1911, Browning Hi-Power and Baretta in this gun.
I have always found the bore axis too high on the Smiths. Never cared for how much muzzle flip it caused. I have had an Italian original 92F since they came out and it was of my favorite pistols. I have shot many thousands of rounds through it and the only failures I have had are with very cheap ammunition.
Interesting that it, while still being a 459 in technicality, has a lot of features that would become the 5906, like the spring steel bar for the slide stop to act on rather than a solid steel stud and the dovetail and pinned ambi safety rather than the screw type
There’s so many s&w pistols that are so under rated and get no attention. Maybe it’s due when you think of s&w you automatically think revolvers I don’t know.
Very cool history on this one
My favorite handgun has gotta be the 39-2. Awesome trigger, feels good in the hand, and great aesthetics.
Waiting for a video on the other trials gun...Ruger P-85.
I like the smith hammer fired auto loaders a lot. Ive got a 5906 that just runs all day long.
I got myself an all Stainless Steel surplus S&W 5906 and it's a great little gun, I really need to repaint the dots on the sights since theyrecworn but otherwise I think it would have made a fine replace for the 1911 in the military.
I still feel the M&P 9 2.0 should be the current US Military sidearm and not the M18.
4:10 They only made 1800 Smith and Wesson 459s? That seems real small compared to what's available on the market, I think.
I really can't see this 70s looking pistol in hands of US Army along with SIG Spear which looks like it comes from 70s but in the next century.
I just want to see a military version Alien Adopted.
Wrong program
So instead they wound up with the 50’s looking Beretta?
With slides cracking and the shortest service life of a military pistol in the past 120 years?
I like your thinking.
You’d make a perfect military procurement officer.🙄🤯
@@BillMcGirr I'm not saying it shouldn't be replaced or that even this pistol is bad. I'm saying PURELY looks.
Y'all are dumb as hell...
Hopefully the ngsw sig spear doesn't go anywhere. The extra weight that was added for more range (beyond what you can pid a target). The optic is trying to combine far to much in addition to an over weight weapon. Please put the sig good idea fairy down along with the officers that are trying to push the xm7 on us.
Man that frame looks so industrial
Since everyone else figured out how to make tilting barrel action without a bushing, I wonder why S&W decided to use that?
The gun is black, self loading, has 20 round capacity, is made for military consideration.... Must be a assault gun! Screaming in Californian 😂😂
That is just a great look on that gun. Kinda makes me want to have my 5904's slide parkerized.
The Trigger Reset of my SW915 is just as good as the Reset of my SigP226 Legion and it cost way much less than the Sig.
Very interesting series of pistols. Always wanted to shoot some of these older S&W autos. Those sights look godawful though.
Kinda feel a little sorry for S&W after being defeated again by Beretta. Double whammy for Beretta winning the trials again. lol
Love my 645 and 4013TSW. I have owned a 4046, a 457, and a 669 too, they were also great.
Whenever I hear some idgit bash magazine safeties for "their effects on triggers" I go ahead and compare my 4013TSW and my 4006 v my P229 Legion😂
The TSW is superior and the '06 is comparable.
The TSW line was ended too soon.
All was a history lesson 😊
I have one of the Lady Smiths and it’s a pain to breakdown and assemble. Maybe because I just don’t shoot it as much. It belonged to my mother in law, and was passed down to my wife, who doesn’t have the hand strength to pull the slide back.
Ian: "Probably only a handful exist that are in reasonable condition".
Fireplace guy: "Yes, and for that precise reason the one in *my* collection is specifically in *immaculate* condition".
Tell us about the recent trials, where they chosed the M18
Finally a gun that I can comment on.
I have a S&W Model 469 (this is the compact with a no hammer spur) and it has all of the features of the newer features from the XM10 trials pistols, the XM10 pistol carved a way for more modern technology to their compact lineup. These guns tend to have VERY poor finishing on their safeties, and rust 5X as quick as every other part on the gun, and the mirrored right side safety is an afterthought, with a screw that loves to come out and be loose unless it is hit with blue Loctite. Biggest issue I have found on these is magazines, they are very rare and hard to find. I luckily have 5, and if you are looking for them, go to gun shows, they can be most easily found there. Another issue with magazines are that they sometimes are sticky and do not like to come out of the gun when you press down the mag release.
Size wise, these kinda feel like a mix between a Browning High-Power and a Glock 19, kinda hard to explain.
But although there is issues, these guns are very nice shooters, and are very underrated for what they are. Even though their single action trigger kinda sucks, their double action trigger is very smooth and is hard to flinch and jerk with to loose your target. They also are very reliable and trusted, for example many police officers used these types of pistols in my area, and the pistol I have is one that was sold off from a department from what I heard.
Either way cool video Ian!
All hail S&W 👍👍👍
History of Weapons & War app early Gang reporting in !!!!
The S&W line of semiautos were almost like an inside joke by the designers, mocking the concept of low bore axis. It's almost like they kept saying "make it higher, make it higher, we want that barrel WAYYY above the hand, who cares about muzzle rise!"
Maybe the lockup of SIG and Glock in the ejection port improves reliably somewhat, as it throws out dirt better than internal lockups ?
Just a manufacturing shortcut, I'm pretty sure. The Ruger P89 used that system, too. Ruger's entry in the trials wasn't especially successful.
Love my 5906, but honestly if they were adopted in the 50s it would've been more than adequate especially since models like the 39 and 59(eventually) were around. They're just so damn heavy. Dont get me wrong, I want to attempt a Mk22 Hushpuppy out of a newer S&W SA. Getting a threaded barrel and the sights is the easiest and hardest part. Long story short, love the looks of these old Smiths and even run them with modern kit/kydex holsters for fun, but there are way better options.
Best history channel on TH-cam.
Do the frame holes have bushings, each hole has a silver ring around them?
I've got a S&W model 410/411 that suspiciously looks very similar except it holds only 10 in the magazine. Built during the Clinton "assault weapons and magazine restriction ban" even the 11 round mags hold only 10 rounds. I believe it started life as a LEO'S gun.
An aside question: where the hell were the 2nd Amendment community when this wad passed? I had been medically retired from law enforcement and was very sick/disabled is my excuse. What is yours?
The S&W Model 410/411 was the budget version of the S&W Model 4006. Similar to how the S&W Model 910/915 was the budget version of the S&W Model 5906.
During the early-1990s, the was a lot of complacency with pro-gun groups and the groups only looking out for their own self interests. This division and lack of interest ("it'll never happen here" attitude), allowed gun control groups to gain the initiative and pass Federal AWB of 1994.
Ian your voice sounds deeper in this
0ver 400 comments, I didn't have patience to read them all, but someone must mentioned that the finnish police forces decided to switch Glock 17/19 to Mauser 11:44 P99 because Glock needed cold launch before dissassembling. As I have heard, various damage missshots were reported for that reason.. As I know, no casualties happened, but here in Finland things like that will be taken serious. Good or no, we can think about that. PS: P99 in my opinion is not a pleasant to shoot because of punchin recoil of a light weight pistol, but that matters nothing of course
I forgot to say that in my world is only one jesus, that is gun jesus. I don't have courage to spell Ian as jesus by initial letter, but if someone hurts its souls, welcome, I make a cup of coffee and lets talk about me
🤘🥳🤘 HAPPY NEW YEAR IAN
Could you please do a video on the FN HAMR/XLAR if possible? 🙂
I wish someone could publish the results of the trials so that we could see just which categories they supposedly won and lost.
The original 59 series were all inox steel both frame and slide
Lots of police officers in Texas carried and or carry the 459 for a long time
I'd love to see a video on the adoption of the M11 handgun!
S&W Autopistols of the 70's and 80's were. . . . .good. One could do worse. One could also do far better. I had a late 70's Model 59 that I dropped immediately for that fancy new Glock.
How are those "thousands of rounds endurance trials" made? I don't suppose there's a guy shooting it waiting the gun to blow in their face? Is there any kind of automation involved, or is it fully manual process?
Man, Len has such cool gats. I'd love to come look through his collection some day, it'd be like being in a candy store lol
At 4:40 : why was that shooting technic popular back then and not today? There's anything related to be a hammer fire pistol?
can you do a video on the m11 pistols?
It’s like a weird mash up of a 1911, a 92, and a cz
Took the words right out of my mouth. Totally agree.
I didn't know about these. I really like this a lot and would love to have one with the 20 round mag. I think it's a very handsome looking pistol and it reminds me of a 1911 with a different trigger and no grip safety. It seems like Smith and Wesson could have sold a lot of these if they made a bunch of them.
I bet they didnt like the mag trigger disconnecting. I dont like the "safety" of it
Interesting content thanks