Should You Train To Failure?
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Training to failure is a topic that comes up frequently. I think it is actually a fairly straightforward topic. In general, sets taken to muscular failure generate excellent growth, but also generate the most fatigue. Sets that are taken close to failure seem to generate just as much growth (or at least very very close), without generating the same amount of fatigue. Therefore, in order to maximize total weekly volume, I generally recommend most sets be taken close to failure, but not actually to failure. I also consider "maxing" to be different from training to failure (a max is the final rep you can do with perfect form) and am a big fan of using it as a way to manage fatigue. That all being said, some people tolerate training to failure totally fine. I have a client with an incredible work capacity that can hit failure and match his reps, set after set. Also, remember, not every exercises generates the same amount of fatigue when taken to failure. However, once you have established a good foundation, taking most of your sets 1-3 (or even 1-5) reps from failure is a good plan to ensure good fatigue management on a high frequency program. Failure training can serve to "idiot proof" a low volume/frequency training program, and it's still good to do every once in a while to make sure you are accurately gauging your proximity to failure.
Got to admit, lm sick and tied of the nice weather you have!
LOL it's pretty amazing.
@@Kboges Where you at? Here in Sweden we just had lowest temperature recorded -43C (-45F)
I'm guessing Hawaii
🤣
L
This is a really interesting subject. Charles Atlas, one of the early body builders (before they took steroids), claimed you should not go to failure because the growth came from long term consistency and avoiding injuries. The "just 2 more reps" culture came in once body builders starting using steroids and other drugs to allow their bodies to recover faster. From my own experience, I found that training to failure just leads to physical and mental fatigue, as well as injuries.
Best summary I have ever heard
I agree, and I have personally experienced volume and progressive overload is the only stimulus muscles need to grow bigger. Towards the last reps when your form is crumbling and you are breathing heavy, take a clue and put the weight down! !
Thanks for the post Dan. Interesting to know that “just two more” came from the steroid generation. Your information makes perfect sense.
Really nice summary
Really interesting comment Dan food for thought. I noticed when I was training to fail plus with being a labourer I was becoming constantly exhausted and not gaining the strength I wanted, it was only after going on holidays or even taking time off being ill that my strength grew in that time period of big rest, so this makes perfect sense to not train to failure.
A lot of what Mt. boges sums up is learning how your own body reacts to the stimulus and recognizing when it is beneficial to go to failure based on how much your body can handle throughout the week/into your next workouts. Always leave enough to go tomorrow, but push yourself to overcome plateaus. *And that's right, I call him mount boges bc he's a mountain of fitness information*
Dude that is exactly it! Thank you for summing that up so cleanly. That totally encompasses my view on the topic. I think a lot of people have misunderstood my view here because I’m certainly not anti failure but I also am honest about the potential trade offs depending on the person and the context.
Thank you for the kind words, my friend! 🙏💪
Right on! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think your info and how you present it is golden. You truly are in it for the long haul. Happy training in the new year.@@Kboges
I think a good rule of thumb is to do a set to where you can get the last perfect rep. If I feel that getting the next rep would require me to begin to bend, twist etc. lose that slow, perfect form rep, I stop right there....
That is a great definition. Simple, yet it accomplishes everything we need it to.
It's a decent principle to abide althrough it's a technical failure rather than muscular one. Obviously both of them have their upsides and downsides.
I did my first set of pull ups to failure today and next set I used bands because I already felt fatigued. Whereas push ups I can train to failure on one set and be fine for the rest of the workout. For me, I think it's clear that stopping a couple of reps short on the pull exercises is the way for me to get consistent volume in. Push exercises like dips and push ups it doesn't seem to matter too much
Agreed bro there’s just something about pull. After your last one spent you’re completely shot. I always do pull first too cause if I hit push/legs/Abs first I feel like it affects my output
It all depends on what you want.
A combat veteran told me: never do today, more than you can do tomorrow.
That makes a lot of sense to me & I like that method.
I know there are different goals for different people. Do em your way.
Really good video Kyle, thanks for the upload.
Personally, I can't just stop without failing in a set. Even though its not like that, I feel that my workouts are kinda useless if I don't push it until ultimate failure.
Thats the main reason why I do need a rest day, (Im usually sore with HFT)
But I don't really think this is too bad. Pushing until failure makes me focus on the movement and the quality of reps, instead of counting reps and trying to guess how many reps are left in tank, and then taking a note to an exercise sheet etc. Just going all in makes it much more simple.
I think this is a completely valid approach to training! Psychology needs to be taken into account for sure, and some people simply enjoy and prefer taking sets to failure. I think this is totally fine, and if this is the case, you simply adjust your program too reflect this. Many people have gotten excellent gains this way. Thank you so much for bringing this up!
Hey man i agree with the failure thing too. Im still getting stronger and improving even going to failure it just means i have to have longer days in between sessions.
@@chrisstanley9477 Yes Chris, this is more of a psychological thing imo. I feel much satisfied with my workout when i push myself the hardest, and i wear the soreness as a badge of honor the next day.
Failure in sets is great but I think that deload week is also important on this approach, am I right?
@@ft.the_equinox ye it should be, but I honestly lose my motivation before that week comes, every single time, thats my problem ^^
Hey Kyle, I want to say that I really do appreciate the videos that you've been making. I've tried to stick to exercising for years, doing every kind of routine you could find, but always struggled with consistency and lack of equipment. You're approach with sticking to the basics and doing high volume actually gets me excited to workout in the morning and so I want to thank you for the quality videos you've been putting out.
I did have a couple questions I was wondering if you could answer. You've mentioned that having slight variations of the exercises can help prevent overuse injuries, but if I was doing a bodyweight workout one day and cardio the next, would it be fine to not include as much variation? Or should I still mix in things like paused reps, weighted variations, different grips, etc? Also, if I'm unable to do pull ups (I don't have a good place to do them for the time being and I'm not strong enough anyway) is there anything I should include other than rows for my back?
I'm still going through all your videos so I'm sorry if you already answered these somewhere else.
Hey Michael, I'm happy to hear the content is resonating with you!
For variation, my opinion is that you are going to benefit from more variety once you are past the beginner stage, so context matters here. When you are starting out, it is important to have consistency with the movement pattern to build proficiency with it. I don't usually recommend a whole lot of variation at this stage, so maybe 1-2 variations is totally fine. Once you get into more intermediate and advanced stages, more variety is useful. But with your set up, even 3 variations across the week would be plenty. Both options ultimately work though. Some people like to keep the same exercises for an entire training block, then completely shift variations and run another block with just the new variations. Either way, don't worry about "making a mistake" with whatever you decide to do. It's just a learning experience and as long as the fundamentals are in place, you can't really go wrong.
Let me know if that makes sense. If not, just let me know and I'm happy to clarify further.
Thanks for the support!
@@Kboges I completely get what you're saying. Thanks for the help!
My ego always sours my workout when I can’t go to failure. I feel like a failure because I can’t push myself when I know I have the strength to do more. I’m just too exhausted and fatigued. This would really bother me because in my early days of training before injuries and quitting, I wouldn’t have this problem (or i think I didn’t). However when trying to get back into working out, I would always have this imposter syndrome where I felt like I just couldn’t push myself hard enough. I would feel like there was something wrong with my will/drive that just wasn’t improving enough with time.
To think that this mindset has been holding me back from having a good workout. It all makes sense.
this is my problem as well. I fell like if there is no failure, you didn't do enough. and then I suffer from soreness the next 2 days...
Same for me and I'm just a beginner
I appreciate your short and informative videos. I’ve had better results doing one set of a given exercise to COMPLETE failure instead of 3 sets to near failure. The benefits for me: good muscle response, less time involved, fewer injuries, less wear and tear on joints and tendons.
Awesome! Yeah there is definitely something to this style of training. I've done single set to training failure in the past and had great results. I've always generally responded better to more volume though.
I find this VERY hard to believe. How can you even do just one set to complete failure without massively increasing your risk of injury. I can't see how this is at all feasible.
@@thedon9670 not just 1 set but 3 😂
bro youre living my dream, big ass house with beautiful views and just training outside on a nice day keep it up bro
Thank you for the information! I will do my sets close to failure right now, when I do them to absolute failure, I get too fatigued and sore to finished my workout lol. Again, thank you for the valuable information!
Yeah that is a common experience. People vary a lot in their tolerance for sets to failure, but what you describe is what I typically see in most people. In your case, you would definitely benefit from leaving some reps in the tank.
@sean tellier nah man
@sean tellier if you finish your workout early you can miss out on exercises thet were meant for another body part you havent trained yet
Yes bodyweight exercises are different than weights exercises with bodyweight exercises if you do high reps you get fatigued fast and if you do low reps you can last longer doing your workout and getting more volume
@sean tellier agreed
Such an important and complex issue this is. Another factor is how advanced the person is. A newbie or near newbie is going to see lots of results training to failure. However, as someone who has been training for years, my training to failure is only good for me maybe once every two weeks just to shock my system. And I don’t know if “shock” is the right word because doing max reps of my regular exercises does not cause soreness. Anyway, I see my best results when I change up the exercise instead of training to failure. Like instead of maxing out with pushups, I may do archer pushups or some other pushup variant.
You are absolutely right! Training status makes an enormous difference. I agree with pretty much everything you say here, except I would say that people just starting out don't need to train to failure to get good gains simply because they are so deconditioned and can benefit just from getting quality reps in just to build the motor pattern. After that, sets to failure can be super useful for this group just so they can actually learn what failure is, and what constitutes a hard set. Many people in the early stages of training don't know what they are capable of in terms of effort. I've literally coached people who said they reached failure at 10 reps, then doubled their reps just because I was there motivating them in person. Advanced people know their limits and can gauge their proximity to failure much better.
Also, I think a lot of people here "a few reps shy of failure" and think that this is an easy set. A few reps shy of failure is actually pretty dang hard, especially when you are reasonably fit and get into the higher rep sets.
I totally agree on the introduction to variety. Excellent point!
This knowledge helped me increase my volume and therefore gains over the last 6-8 months. Getting a lot of compliments on my physique :) For me, I do far more sets to failure when I am plateauing. In many cases I have found that my mental failure switch was earlier than my physical one, and pushing to total failure meant overcoming some sort of psychological obstacle instead of a physical one. Everyone is different, though. Cheers
I think this is a solid approach, and ultimately we need to experiment to find what works for us.
Those 35 push ups were so beautiful haha
Thank you!
This was my issue. I used to do sprints once a week and destroy myself to failure, but I noticed that I literally didn't want to lift a finger for the rest of the week or even eat healthy. I also noticed my sleep for the first day or two after sprinting was poor because my body was overheated and so I couldn't stay cool and it lowered the quality of my sleep and then my recovery wasn't great. Since then I've worked out moderately with decent gains, probably cumulatively better then those days too.
Instawd of sprinted, must try eating poope
@@JumpingSquid get well bro.
@@mmustap3 get well of whate?
@@mmustap3 well? Illl Get Well when it’s Water time Ibrahahms….
@@mmustap3 thainkes
Great video, you're really helpful. Keep being awesome!
Thank you Dinis! Much appreciated!
Been keeping my sets a few reps short of failure for 10 months now, combined with the mindset of not caring about the rep counts, slow and steady repetitions with good form with a few hours between sets and I build up 15 kg(35 pounds) of muscle mass.
Some of it comes from cycling but it's more than visible on the upper body. ie. 2 months in a buddy of mine started staring at my chest and mentioned 'you have fairly well defined chest'. Would not believe I had only trained for 2 months, apparently it should take more than a year..
First 4 months I got 10kg and got a bit scared of the growth rate, also was mentally and physically exhausting to do 3-5 sets of dips and push-ups everyday with hanging somewhere in between and I eased up on the training from that. Even though I trained for only 10 minutes a day, if that.
Biggest downside of all this is that all clothes are starting to be skin tight.
What do you mean “with a few hours between sets”? Like one set of push-ups until failure and then doing it again in a few hours? What’s this routine like? I’m super curious and inspired!
@@PixelWavlength Usually it meant that when I woke up I did a set of push-ups few reps short of failure. Then waited 10-15 minutes, did a set of dips a few reps short of failure, followed by hanging. Then I waited 2-3 hours and repeated it, then same later.
*edit. I came to this program spending a month on TH-cam fitness videos taking everything I had experienced myself into account when deciding whether it would work for me or not.
For me this worked so well it was scary, that combined with the mental exhaustion was a bit much. First 2 weeks will probably feel fairly easy. 5th week hit me hard and I had to take it very easy, after which it became a routine. Easy day here and there but very few days off completely.
Don't be scared of doing just one set some days if the fatigue has built up too much.
@@tak4043 That’s fascinating. It seems so simple, yet effective after watching this very video about the bodily processes that dictate muscle stimulation. How many sets of each exercise do you aim for per day?
@@PixelWavlength First 4 months I did 3-3.5 sets a day on average. Also bicycle sprints to the store and back, that's 2x 3.5km trip 2x per week.
Now doing about half of that, except bicycle which is constant.
it's called greasing the groove, it was pioneered by Pavel Tsatsouline.
Your short & sweet, straight to the point style is unique, really good, keep going
Another key part of this is the common trend of adding this move and that move, and ending up with 5 moves that work the same muscles. Ending up with a 2 hour workout that eventually beats down the motivation.
Well motivation only gets you started, you have to rely on discipline if you want to make working out a life long thing!
A brilliant video once again. As an endurance athlete who likes to keep my strength numbers up i've found this higher frequency style of training really beneficial. Training 7-12 hours a week I was finding 3 days of high volume weighted calisthenics was taking to much recovery time away. Using your trifecta style 3 sets rpe 8-9 of a pull, push and either a squat/lunge or kettlebell swing monday through friday, ive found the fatigue just peaks in line with the additional endurance training. My body composition has greatly improved as well as my max reps on the body weight movements. I can't really thank you enough for the information you're putting out here. Keep it up mate.
Awesome to hear! That's exactly the strategy. Stimulate the muscle frequently to improve the body composition, without racking up a huge fatigue debt that you have to pay at some point. So happy to hear you are enjoying it and it's giving you the results you want. Also great application for the KB swing! I might try that myself!
@@Kboges yeah I find with cycling volume I am fairly quad strong anyway. I’ll throw in some kB swings either 10 on the minute for 10 mins or some single arm stuff for some posterior chain and core workout that’s not too taxing on my CNS.
@@mcewenben This is a great idea. Great alternative to squats and lunges. Still allows you to get some good conditioning in.
I train to failure sometimes when I give myself a Challange.
It's then more out of a mental context, to grow stronger mentally than physically
Not a bad way to go at all!💪💪
Recently found your channel and so glad I have. Great content, straight to the information gold without all the waffle, perfect! I've swapped from a full body 3x to a 5 days a week push/pull/legs schedule with the odd extra set of auxillary exercise thrown in, even after just a few sessions feels like I'm now dictating my fatigue through my training rather than the fatigue dictating my training, if that makes sense?! At 51yrs old this feels like the ideal way to move forward.
One quick question, as my pull-ups max is only 5-6 reps would you recommend having 3 days pull-ups and 2 days of rows or the other way round? I'd really like to get my pull-up numbers up. Thanks
Thanks so much! I'm happy you found the channel and enjoy the content.
I know exactly what you mean about fatigue. I feel exactly the same.
With a max of 5-6 reps, you are right at that point where you could go either way, but my hunch would be to lean a bit more into building the row as a means of building the pull up. You also may consider alternating them weekly. One week 3 days of rows and 2 days of pull ups and switch that around the next week. Also, lots of submax reps are going to work well for your pull up training. Once you get to about 8 reps on the pull up, everything becomes a little easier. If you need to bounce any ideas around on how to structure it, just let me know.
@@Kboges broi I am new into calisthenics but I am already into bodybuilding without diet and protein I simply eat the food that I interested in that moment I can do 30 pushups 6 pull-ups 12 dips continuously now I want to train in calisthenics because I don't want a buff body without actual body strength . So I need a workout plan to do calisthenics . Will u PLZZ give me a workout routine to start calisthenics ? And I have a doubt that by doing the calisthenics will be able to continue to older age ? I mean by getting older our bone tendency will become reduced . And also by doing is it surely we will build lean muscle mass in our body is it true ? Or is it depends on the genetics or person ?
Animal
1:00 Effective training = How you manage stimulus relative to fatigue generated from training. Had to simply this shit so it's easier to understand. 👽 222 Comments rn.
training to failure destroyed my life for 1 year. Made me so fkin unhealthy
Love how you are doing full, clean legit reps, with pause and good contraction.
You are moving smoothly and in control, well done. Quality.
Thanks, Matthias!
Respect for responding to so many comments, awesome content by the way
Thanks man! Yeah I used to be able to get to every single comment but it’s impossible now. I still try to spend a few hours a day interacting with subscribers in the comment section.
Thanks for the kind words!
3:00 But, because humans are the quickest to adapt. Surely, over time, one would be able to not be limited to reps cah the fatigue met a new threshold on how it's managed thus leading to unlocking +reps. 👽
The more reps you can pull off from an exercise it gets less effective...surely it's great for the pump
But for muscle growth you need to make the exercise difficult
My man Kyle, let me know what you think about this video th-cam.com/video/ERWYqaLdhW0/w-d-xo.html
This guy is andrey smaev. He is 6'1 230 lbs at 22 and can do chin ups with 155 kgs attachted to him.
Pro athletes in the most physical sport can do like 50 kgs attachted to him so how fucking freaky is he (world record is 100 kgs btw, he beats it by 55 kg). He doesn't even have a gym and trains with just a bar. How close can someone get to his level of strength and is he the freakiest guy you have ever seen?
Love your videos!
Absolutely extraordinary. I would say that this level of strength is incredibly rare and elite, and is not something that is realistically attainable for the vast majority of the population.
Finally something that makes sense on the debate of this.
Good info bro thank you
Thanks Ken! I really appreciate the positive feedback.
This channel is a goldmine
Thank you, Wotter!
Hey there mate what are your thoughts on high reps / volume for staying lean? I personally notice that when i go through a phase of low rep strength work like convict conditioning that i hold on to fat around my waist, gut and chest but on high rep training I'm much leaner ! Do you think there is something to high reps and fat burning ??
I tend to think so. I do think these low volume programs have a place, and can be fun to cycle in every once in a while for variety, but my experience is the same as yours. It makes sense though if you think about it. If you are doing 1000-2000 squats a week vs like 15 pistols, and 350+ pull ups vs 10 archers, and 1000 push ups vs 25 1- arm pus ups, then carry this out for several months, you can see an enormous difference in energy expenditure that is going to have a significant impact on body fat. Over the course of 3 months, 24,000 squats can burn a lot of fat.
@@Kboges yeah that's my thoughts exactly ! I tend to use low volume phases when i need a break from the higher rep training but the difference in body composition is definitely noticeable . Personally i believe there is many more benefits to be had from higher rep / volume which i have noticed in myself from more muscle, less fat, better endurance , better moods, increased agility, increased speed and reaction times. The same can't be said for slow , low rep convict conditioning style training, at least not in my own experience.
@@baz9653 Agreed! There is definitely something to the extras that you mentioned. High reps can work magic for all that stuff. Very cool!
You don't burn fat. No matter what you do, you burn calories. You want less fat, eat a little under your daily calorie maintence.
Outstanding channel and website. Tons of useful information in a clear and straight way. I have no idea how to express how you caused a positive impact over here. Thank you so much!
Most of the conversations on this seem to be about "growth" and hypertrophy. Is this meant to apply to aesthetics for the most part? I understand most people are focused on that. But what about strength gains regardless of size?
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on this. What are your thoughts on the correct way to train with body-weight if strength and power are your main goals?
I've asked this question before. I'm just curious about differing opinions. Thanks! Great video!
Strength at what? this question needs the context of what you want to be strong at doing.
As intense as possible, little rests, much exhaustion
Did you find out? pls let me know
Be also careful that you don't train to a heart failure. Sometimes, when I try to train one set into a failure, I start to have extreme palpitations, even if my muscles could still go a bit. I don't personally think that (for some people, perhaps) training one set into a failure is healthy for their hearts.
Yeah this is a great point. If you have an intolerance to failure, or a health concern that is concerning, always see your doc, but don't feel compelled to force through it.
Nice explanation, Im pretty sure shaolin Monks doesnt care about too much fatigues they are training far beyond fatigueness
100% I love that about them. They just push past any perceived limit.
Please do a detail video on correct form for pushups
Dude, great suggestion! That is on the list!
It does produce the most fatigue yes but Beardsleys research has shown ways you can train to failure and still recover within 72 hours. Some key point: Fail in 6-10 rep range, more than 10 will produce extra fatigue. Rest 3 min between sets. Do at most 3 sets per muscle/workout when training to failure. And use mostly bodyweight or machines, free weights will cause more fatigue because of stabilization (especially once you get to higher weights). For those of you who like to train to failure, try these out I guarantee you will be recovered in 72 hours.
Very interesting! I've been training to failure every other day with calisthenics. It sounds like I may not be allowing the muscles enough time to recover.
I really like Joe Delaney's guidance on this, calling it "Reps in Reserve".
He echos your sentiment completely, that going to failure causing exhaustion to the point that you're hindering your workout, and potentially overall sets/reps for the week.
By keeping reps in reserve, and having a goal number in mind when setting your weights I think is a great way to maximise growth.
Say you're going for bench, and you're aiming for 8 reps, with 2 in reserve - I know I'd be wanting to set my bar at around 80-85KG to be comfortable with 2 in reserve.
EXACTLY! It's a no brainer in terms of the tradeoff.
What about pure bodyweight training approach? Since I use only my own bodyweight, won't it better if I go to failure since it's much lighter than benching 80kg?
@@frog6054 Me personally, I'd still say leave reps in reserve.
3-4 sets of going to absolute failure on push ups will leave you absolutely hammered but you may have only managed 100-200 push ups.
Where as if you leave say 5-10 reps in reserve.
Take a minute or so rest - in that same day you may be able to hit 400 reps - consistently.
400 reps vs 200 reps imo is always going to be better.
It depends on how much time you've got as well.
If you've only got 40 minutes to train or w.e, sometimes going for the heavy fatigue makes more sense as you won't be able to get in the 400 reps anyway?
It occurs to me that if it is muscle exhaustion, i.e. failure or near failure (NF) at almost any repetition range low to high that stimulates the growth response, then a person could do three sets of an exercise to near failure, but instead of a five minute rest, instead widely spread out across the day. E.g. a set to NF in the morning, one around noon, and the last before supper. That's three stimulating events in the day, how would it be any different from doing three sets to NF within a 15 minute span in the morning?
I actually think this might be even better.
The problem is that you would constantly need to warm-up the body part again that you are going to train to NF
@@processuscoracoideus For heavy load low rep exercise I agree. But I can tell from experience that once you're able to 20+ reps straight for a certain load, let's say 20+ continuous pushups, you already are doing a warmup, it becomes exercise towards the end of the set, the NF part.
I used to find full failure psychologically exhausting -- I'd eventually be so sick of it that I had trouble making myself exercise at all for a couple of weeks.
Extreme example: when I was 29, I spent a summer doing nothing but 1-rep maxes in the deadlift and overhead press. Do a rep, rest 10 minutes, do another, for a total of 5 for each movement. I had impressive strength gains, even with only one workout per week, but after 12 weeks of this, I was SO sick of lifting that I didn't touch a barbell for four months.
Now I only go to failure by accident, in the "crap, I thought I'd get 10" sense, and it's much easier to avoid that psychological burnout.
Thanks a lot for this comment, you described something that happened to me too, but I've never heard anybody talking/describing it! I'll definitely stop training in this way, this video was very useful in that regard!
Hello Kyle, could you please do some sample workouts of some other splits, such as PPL, Upper Lower or even a body part split. I would love to see your layout of program, exercise selection, total volume etc. That would be great :)
Great question! So I don't have one single way I would program these. Instead, I like to start from foundational principles (I will be making a video on these shortly) and tweak them according to the particular context I was programming for. If I were programming for myself, each split would contains several variations of my main movement, sets would be taken close to failure, and I would try to get 10-20 sets per muscle group per week. My exercises selection would still revolve around the basics and their variations that I do now, and the only real difference between these training splits would be on what days the exercises would be done.
I hope that makes sense. If you need more clarification, just let me know and I'm happy to go into more detail.
@@Kboges Thank you for the explanation, and i am looking forward to the upcoming videos.
Makes so much sense
Thank! Glad you enjoyed!
Hi Kyle Great Content. Thankyou its helped me a lot. Do you recommend Working out everyday ? I've been doing everyday 50 pushups 50 assisted pull-ups and 150 Squats. Keep in mind Im fairly new to this. Thank you in advance
I recommend working up to training every day, for sure. It works well for most people and keep in mind that this doesn't mean that every day is hard. I believe taking easy days and sometimes even recovery weeks can be very productive, but these still involve training.
I have to un-train my mind to not go to failure. I grew up on the go to puke failure grunt mode and lifting for 20yrs but with aging it has become more counter productive with chronic pain injuries and most importantly the mental and physical fatigue.
I like to think of it like this: my body has the ability to do X and have Y in reserve. If i train to X and never go into reserve my status remains quo. But when i go into reserve (not necessarily empty), and do so repeatedly, then my body makes adjustments so that the amount i am doing becomes X and the body still has Y in reserve. If i continue this same amount, i have reached a new status quo. And... Here we go with the requirement for more reps/sets/heavier to exceed the new X. So say my pushup X is 5 and i have failure at 8 and thus my body wants 3 in reserve. If i keep going to 6, my body will adjust to keep the 3 buffer and my new failure will become 9. If i do no go beyond 6 i will remain at that level... And my body always wants stuff in reserve else in the wild we would work until we dropped and be unable to move and get got by a lion or something. And it is the body's desire to have reserve that sees it make adjustments (growth or whatever) so it can comfortable to the X you are asking of it.
Nice topic bro. valuable information....! Then what about drop sets? we push ourself past failure by reducing the difficulty of exercise... do they have any advantage or benefits as far as building muscles is concerned?
Drop sets tend to produce more fatigue than hypertrophy and the research on the subject shows they are not reliably effective for growth in mosts contexts. However, if you are on a lower training frequency, they may very well have an application for accumulating a ton of volume in a short period of time.
Nothing is fascinating to me about you and others is that you don't age it's fast as the normal person I've been looking at that
Great content. May I ask, do you only uses pull-ups as you back workouts? Do I have to use weight to get a defined back like yours? Thanks!
I think this is such an interesting topic. It seems to be another benefit of the high frequency approach, you can push it to failure when you feel good and then take it easy the next couple of days, you can almost have a daily undulating model but rather than rep ranges you can vary the intensity. Personally I think if you're trying to put on mass as effectively as possible, training to failure is required, but as always it's so individual it's difficult to say.
Just on your point in the description about hitting failure across all sets but maintaining the rep count, I honestly don't know how people do that haha. This concept really clicked for me on a channel called natural hypertrophy. He has a concept called evolving rep ranges. You basically pick a rep range so 3 sets of 6 to 10 reps for example. So you would get 8,7,6( each set taken to failure) then progress eventually to 10/9/8 and then add weight. For such a long time I was trying to get to 3x8 but I could just never do it, by training this way you drive progress without the dogmatic approach of the traditional 3x8 or whatever. This doesn't necessarily work with your approach of higher rep basics in terms of adding weight, but it's an interesting approach none the less
Hey Marcus, great points here. I definitely prefer a DUP approach with proximity to failure as the primary variable to be manipulated daily. You hit the nail on the head.
Everything in training is a tradeoff. If failure produces more gains per set (it's not actually clear it reliably does so it depends on the person) along with more fatigue, then it will certainly negatively affect the overall amount of volume you can accumulate, and less quality volume reliably leads to less gains. But, that may or may not be a problem. Several years back, I trained 3 sets, 3 times per week, with each set taken to failure. It worked extremely well. The extra fatigue generated by the failure sets didn't affect my weekly volume because I had other things limiting my weekly volume (running training, travel, school etc). Would I have made as good of progress stopping 1 rep shy of failure? I tend to think the results would have been indistinguishable, but since I wasn't training frequently, I just wanted to hammer out each set and leave nothing on the table as a way of idiot proofing my training. Today, my position is still that if I'm not going to train a lot, I'm going to train as hard as I can, and if I am going to train a lot, I'm going to leave a bit more in the tank. If I were running like a PPL split, I would include more training to failure. My point is, context is everything with this stuff and training to failure definitely has smart and practical applications. It's just about knowing the tradeoff you are making, and ensuring that the tradeoff is the one you intend to make.
I like the approach from natural hypertrophy. Very logical.
@@Kboges totally agree with everything you've said. Really great discussion and so much to talk about as well. One thing I would ask is, if not training to failure and not going "balls to the wall" so to speak, does adding extra reps come naturally. Ie if you get 3x10 not to failure but next time you get 1x11 and 2x10 perhaps that set of 11 would have to be to failure so by default you would end up training to failure anyway? I suppose by rotating variations and training frequently it might not be an issue and you would go with the ebs and flows of training?
I gain so much confidence from watching your videos. They really help me develop my own training ideas. thank you K Boges.
Great video! A question: around the 3:40 mark you mention there are some exercises that generate a lot of fatigue when taken to failure, and others that don't. Can you give some examples of each? Or does it differ too much from person to person?
It can differ from person to person. But the easiest way to illustrate that would be at the extremes... lateral raises to failure vs deadlifts to failure.
I think, isolate exercise can be taken to failure with lesser fatigue than on compound movements that taken to failure
@@ft.the_equinox 100% agree
@@ft.the_equinox beacause compounds also fatigue the cns more
Nutrition,have to keep the cal intake up & it's easy to over train.
Although late, I recommend Mike Mentzer and his HIT workout. As someone who has been using this method for now 2 months, my muscular growth was quite faster than before. I train only 2 times in a week, thus the body can always recover by the time I do it again. Read his literature and he's given quite alot of examples of how it functions, thus I think the biggest problem is overtraining in people, as well as almost to none real rest days.
Hey Dimitrije! I'm peripherally familiar with Mike's work and have tried low volume, low frequency protocols in the past. They definitely work! But, the current state of the research is such that volume has a dose response relationship with hypertrophy... this is pretty well established. Mike Mentzer was an extraordinarily accomplished guy, but I would not give his opinion more weight than the combination of my own personal and professional experience, that of other accomplished bodybuilders, coaches, athletes, and researchers, and the current weight of the scientific evidence that has been replicated over and over again. Most people, most of the time, benefit from more training volume. There are very few documented examples of people making better gains with less volume, and the ones that do exist are typically an artifact of poor volume distribution, because there does seem to be a reliable upper limit to per session volume accumulation- and that's where frequency comes in. That is not to say some people will not benefit from lower volume and lower frequency training. But most people will have better gains with more work. As for overtraining... I think it is less of a problem than most people think. I think there is a tendency to look at humans as fragile and delicate, and I do not think we are. Being tired and being overtrained are two very different things, and most of us aren't doing near enough to approach true overtraining. I think everyday life in many places is WAY harder physically than my workouts are. Life for humans has been physically hard for most of our existence... WAY harder than the effort it takes me to train 30-45 minutes a day. Everything we did, from acquiring food, water, making shelter, prepping meals, defending ourselves, etc. took WORK. There were no breaks. We are capable of adapting to significantly more than we think, provided we have good nutrition, give ourselves time to adapt, progress appropriately, and structure our training intelligently.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27433992/
mennohenselmans.com/optimal-training-volume/
weightology.net/the-members-area/evidence-based-guides/set-volume-for-muscle-size-the-ultimate-evidence-based-bible/
Your videos motivate me 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Your comments motivate me! 💪 🙏
ive been learning about training to 70% more and more now from people like firas zahabi and mike chang
Yeah it's a smart approach. I'm going to make another video on this topic in the future.
@@Kboges YOU DA MAN
If I had to choose my favorite body physique it would be yours, ngl 👀
Can I do weighted pull ups, Bench press and Squats everyday?
You could, but frequency is just 1 variable in a program and it needs to fit in with the rest of your training to ensure adequate recovery and keep injury risk low. A common mistake is to start doing a 3 day per week program 5-7 days per week without any alteration in exercise selection, volume, or intensity.
I personally love doing my last set to failure!
very interesting. thank you. the advice I have always followed is, the last three reps need to burn. so not necessarily to failure.
Yeah that will likely do the trick!
is 3 sets to failure every 5 days a week mon-fri bad???? 😅
im not gonna lie sometimes or maybe always i just love failure. i just love pushing myself until i cant move it just feels like therapy.💪
Nothing wrong with that, Domas! Preference is very important and if you love failure training, keep it up! My point with this is that we have options.. it can work either way.
I used to train with high frequency but throughout all those years i developed some joint pain in my knees, elbows and hip area. Now I am taking week off, and after that I am going to give a shot to High intensity training with only one set to failure, with 4 seconds positive, 1 second isometric and 4 seconds negative cadence, always keeping muscle under tension, avoiding joint lockout and limiting momentum. All those years I searched for ,,the best,, approach for the best results, but now the only thing i care about is living without joint pain. Im 22 , and i trained like a moron. Pulling movements without scapula protraction, squats to only 90 degrees, then pistol squats without sufficient time for joints to adapt, heavy triceps pushdowns, pushups without scapula protraction... all this with poor posture from sitting all day long. Btw thank you for your amazing content, always keen to watch your videos.
Or maybe not 4 second up, 4 seconds down, but always with control
Sorry to hear about your struggles with exercise. I always advise getting into training slowly, and listening to your body. I'm glad to hear you are trying some new approaches to stay at it! Remmerb, prioritize your movement quality, don't chase reps, and try to train in a way that is sustainable for you whole life. Good luck and keep me posted!
I can't do a single chin up or dip. How do i build up strength for them? You should do a video for it since both movements are hard for noobs like me. Great stuff BTW. Also would you recommend training hard 3 days a week or 6 light days. I have heard that hormonal response to heavy squatting is immense which is why most training programs for novices are 3 days with the first exercise being heavy squats to near failure. Whether it is starting strength or super squats. I would want to know your opinion on this too. Great work btw.
Great question! For building your chin up and dips, focus on building the muscles used in those movements. So that is going to be lot's of rows and lots of push ups. At the same time, work on getting "athletic lean" if you aren't already and once your body composition has improved, pull ups and dips will be easier, and more than likely you will be able to do them automatically without practice.
As for 3 days vs 6 days... if volume is equated, meaning you do the same number of sets per week either way, then it doesn't much matter. My preference is for more days than fewer days, because there are some advantages in terms of perceived effort- smaller workouts are not as fatiguing as bigger workouts.
As for the hormonal response from squats... this has been massively over stated. The hormonal release from heavy squats is a short pulse. It is not a sustained release, and the pulse is still within physiological normal ranges, so it will not have super-physiological effects on the body. Basically, it is present to facilitate the adaptions that the exercise is driving, and that is all it is really going to do. These programs that emphasize the squat benefit from emphasizing the squat- it's an exercise that stresses a ton of muscle mass, and the hormonal release is a function of this level of systemic stress, and not an independent or extra driver of gains.
@@Kboges thanks a ton fkr your insight
grease the groove basically
Hi Kyle, have you heard of the one set to failure training style? Coaches like Dorian Yates and Jay Vincent promote this type of training, saying you only really need to do one set to failure per muscle group per week and that it is the most time efficient and effective way to build muscle. They are arguing that high volume is not necessary and generally a waste of time.
For instance Jay trains 2 times per week, one day upper body, one day lower body. Doing one set to failure for each muscle group, with the workout taking about 30 minutes.
What are your thoughts on that?
this works for fake nattys. But one hour a week? your body need to live in an enviroment where it is forced to be stronger. I doubt that so little time will do it.
I mean you can just take steroids and you will gain more muscle than the average natty joe who's just lifting weights. If you than hit the gym for 30 minutes, yeah this will be enough to grow a descent muscular body.
after doing cardio, I run out of energy and that prevents me from reaching failure in resistance exercises, or even shy to failure. Whats the best technique to do cardio and resistance training in max efficiency?
Also what's the best technique to breathe through cardio without getting dizzy?
Cardio takes a long time to recover from no matter who you are. I would take a longer break or push your cardio until the end of the day, which also helps you sleep better at night!
As a person who’s done both cardio and resistance training, i’d advice you to do cardio on a different day. But if you still want to do cardio on the same day as resistance training, you can go for 1.5 mile run as a warm up or a finisher, it’s up to you. As for breathing, try breathing from your belly, inhale from the nose until you have a bloat in your belly and exhale through the mouth in two bursts kinda like “huuh huuh” if you get what i mean 😅. Hope this helps
@@afnanhisyamhussin2589 thanks♥️🙏🏽
@@jadekavanah9312 thank you 🙏🏽
I like your channel. I like your videos. Great content. If I might make one suggestion, because I think it would really empower your content, it would be to look into the camera all the time when you talk. I don't mean to focus too much on this, as you're putting really good information out there. Thumbs up.
Ahh thanks! Yeah I'm often reading bullet points when I record, so it can be tough. But great suggestion and I will try harder to look into the camera more. Thank you for the feedback!
Great video but you're playing both sides of the fence with your definition of either the train to failure or not. Failure is something that should be done prudently. I'd rather be able to train 5 days a week over the course of a 365 day year then 3 days a week (because I'm training to failure on most of them three days.) Consistency is the key. And you are right as far as saying some people's genetics allow them to train to failure and recover from it much easier than others. In my opinion the bottom line is there's no need to train to failure unless you're actually seeing if you made progress in a particular exercise over the course of about a few months or so. One more thing as an example I'd rather do 20 sets of five then five sets of 20 on an exercise- imo a person can get more volume done more consistently by working out less intensely thus getting more workouts over the course of a year.
Hey Anthony! Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not trying to play both sides of the fence. I'm just trying to explain that the answer to this question is context dependent. In general I don't recommend training to failure for most training for most people with most exercises. There are exceptions to this though.
1) Not every exercise is equally fatiguing when taken to failure. Rows vs deadlifts is a good example, single joint vs multi joint is an another good example.
2) Some people tolerate training to failure better than others. I frequently see large differences in work capacity between individuals I train in person. Some can tolerate training to failure with no perceived negative effects, and others have significant negative effects.
3) Some people prefer training to failure. I personally do not think it is a great strategy for most people most of the time, but what is "optimal" doesn't matter if adherence is not good, and structuring training so that it is congruent with your preferences is extremely important and underrated for long term positive outcomes. For example, if clients come to me and say that they prefer hammering a few sets to failure 1-2x per week because they like the pump, the effort, and the motivation provided by intensity of the workout, AND they have experimented higher volumes of submax work in the past but hated it, I'm going to explain to them the trade-offs, but I'm also going to consider their preferences because I'm primarily concerned with what is sustainable long term.
In general, for most people, most of the time, I program submax work for the vast majority of their training volume for the reasons you suggest. However, workouts need to cross an intensity threshold to stimulate an adaptive response, and that threshold changes as time goes on. For most people beyond untrained-beginner, sets of 5 with their 20RM are probably not going to generate very robust muscular adaptions since there is no impetus to recruit hight threshold motor units.
I hope that makes sense. Thanks for the feedback. Let me know if you have any questions; I'm happy to clarify my position.
Another excellent piece, Kyle. My questions would be this.... If I'm doing an exercise that allows a high number of reps per set, say, 30 or more, I usually end the set when the burn gets too intense. This feels different to me than when I'm doing something where I can get 10-12. There I stop not so much because of the burn but rather that I'm about to not be able to do another. In the case of high reps I could do more if I could tolerate the burn so it's not really failure. Any difference between these two in terms of muscle growth? The older I get (almost 56 now), the less I am able to recover from the former scenario ("heavier exercises", fewer reps) day to day and have been staying lately with the easier stuff. Rows, chest elevated push-ups, etc. and in fact, I've had so much lingering fatigue with 3 sets of push/pull/squat per day that I've moved over to the push, pull, squat split that you recommended in "a simpler way to train". That along with the easier exercises and high reps has me feeling like I'm getting really good workouts but am recovering. Any chance I'm missing out on muscle building potential here? Thanks.
Stephen! This is such a great question... There is so much I could say on this topic but I will do my best to be concise! So, technically, you may missing out on a full growth response per set, BUT there is a good shot that the added recovery you get from training this way allows you to accumulate more volume over the week because you are staying better recovered. This could more than overcome whatever is lost on a per set basis. However, it is totally possible that you are crossing that intensity threshold required to get a full growth response anyway. It's really hard to say. I will add this though, as far as the effective reps model goes, I think it's a really useful way to simplify the concept around an intensity threshold, but it is just a model. There are several studies that show robust growth in reps that, accord the the model, should never be stimulating, Moreover, it doesn't account for the growth of the contributing musculature that grows from training, despite that musculature never approaching failure due to its role as a non- prime mover 9think stabilizing muscles and synergists). So... it's just very simple way to look at training and it is especially useful for communicating these concepts to the masses. In essence, it's close enough and explains an awful lot, but not everything. I would say in your case, as long as your effort is high, you are probably getting a pretty good growth response, and I do believe that it's often a good idea to prioritize recovery so that you can train with more volume over the week. Personally, I like your approach a lot and if there is a tradeoff to be made, I would say you are making the smart one.
Thanks, as always, for these super thoughtful responses and for raising these great points!
The lower rep sets drain your central nervous system more its not just the muscles that are a factor. Personally when i train lower body i get the burn you speak of more because the legs can take a lot more intensity but my upper body needs a lot more recovery because i find once i get to 12-15 reps such as with heavy push ups my body gives up whereas with the legs i could keep going a lot more. I think either way the muscles adapt and grow.
@@Kboges Appreciate your thoughtful reply, Kyle. I always go by feel with this and it's working so far. What you're doing here is so helpful to us because it really does simplify this stuff and make it understandable so we are not overwhelmed. Thanks again.
If i were to do like 3 rep sets for like 10-15 minutes of pushups, would i still be going to failure?
I have had pretty bad experience with fatigue from to failure training as a noob.
Pick an easier variation and don't train to failure. Stay 2-3 reps from failure and make sure you aren't doing too many sets per muscle group per week. Start at maybe 10-12 and slowly build up from there.
Do you think it would be harmful to the back and shoulders to train with a 60 pound weight vest?
If you train up to this, give yourself time to adapt to the stress, and don't overdo the training, it should be fine. However, there is a risk with everything and that risk is going to be individual, so it is impossible for me to give you an honest assessment of the risk associated with it. Proper preparation and form are the best you can do for mitigating injury risk.
training to failure, based on my experience, is nice for the people who is beginner in the workout (first week) but after a one month of training to failure, I feel like my performance is decreasing like my reps is going down and my joints are crying, I think the main contributor on why i hit plateu is because I train to failure twice a week for every muscle group for 2 months
Agreed! It can be great in certain contexts. For others it can make you go backwards.
Excellent advice. TTF has it's limitations overall trying to compete with daily demands. TTF is exhausting.
I've also heard that training to failure causes issues with nerve function in the body later in life that can lead to various serious diseases. So better to stay away from failure unless neccessary
I'm not familiar with that, so I can't say one way or another, but just in terms of fatigue management, it's a no brainer.
Honestly this is so fucking true but it's so hard to admit it.
It seems those that can train to failure with out to much stress are those that don't know how to push to true failure.
Yeah this is an amazing point. I totally agree.
How many days per wk should you do the pullup, pushup sets? Every day or take days off.
Depends on quite a lot. Many can definitely train them daily if done properly.
Amazing content man!✨
what are your thoughts on pushing through a phase where your not getting omptimall recover but training your body to take that work load. I remember a while back, I would just do a 150 pullups a day spread out through out the day, and after 2-3 weeks i would be able to do this everyday not feel sore and swim every day for my swim team. I felt so strong back then.
Yeah dude this is a great question. I think there is something to it but I don't have research on hand to support it, though I could dig around to see what is out there in the way of overreaching research. I feel that there is a benefit. I've made some pretty big gains while over reaching, dialing it back and then ramping back up.
When doing a set till failure how many sets do you think is enough per excercise? Or sets per week
It depends on the individual and the overall training program. I would say on average, 10-20 sets per week, taken a few reps shy of failure, is going to work well for a lot of people using exercises that are not overly fatiguing for them.
I feel like failure hasn't been worth it for me. It seems to make me more prone to getting sick. I don't know why but I got healthier when I stopped going to failure.
Thank you so much for this valuable knowledge 👍
It's my pleasure!
Love your Vids..!! Great Bro!! I'm 64 been training for over 50 years HARD, no injuries.... Very Flexible .. BJJ, Karate, Boxing Swimming Yoga CALI. I Train 6 days a week...
Awesome to hear, brother! I'm trying to be like you when I'm your age. Very inspirational! Thank you for reaching out!
@@Kboges Great Bro...!!
if i train to failure I KNOW im gonna give up training in general i could NEVER COULDVE IMAGINE that i would EVER be consistent in ANY type of exercise EVER the only thing that finally KEPT me consistent is DOING WAY LESS BUT EVERY SINGLE DAY= I END UP DOING MORE VOLUME OF EXERCISE THAT A N Y O N E ELSE THAT KILLS THEMSELVES 4 DAYS A WEEK IN A COURSE OF A YEAR
I do push, pull and leg split (calisthenics) and in every set i train to faliure and when in finished with my workout i don’t get fatigued the next day i guess It’s ok for me to train to faliure.
Yeah, for sure. There is a good amount of individual variability. As a coach, I have seen some guys be able to hit failure over and over again, day after day, with seemingly no issues. I've seen other guys get absolutely crushed from a single set to failure. Most people fall in the middle of this.
@@Kbogesbtw thanks for this video it helped my a lot.
@Kboges Always appreciate your insights, thank you! For this next year we're looking at total work volume over months, quarters, and the year. For push-ups, pull-ups, and body weight squats. Since all of these can be done shy of failure, we can leave reps in reserve, we can space them out over the course of each day (do some in the morning, noon, evening, for example) - how do you respond to fun goals like 140 push-ups per day for the year (like 25-35 reps for four-or-five careful-good-form-sets)? It would yield 50,000 reps for the year and that sounds like a goal I'd like to hit.
You don't have to start of going to faliure...
Etc..
right
Failure beats rep ranges
Excellent point.
@@Kboges I was just curious should you go near or to failure every single set or just the last few sets?
This video answers my big soreness problem question. I am probably always overdoing it. But I do not feel when exactly my last pull up should be, or should I do one more...
I only train last set to failure. I tried training all sets to failure but I just get light headed halfway through my workout and it sucks.
I think that's a solid way to go!
I was far too focused on training to failure, based on the understanding that the closer to failure, the better the gains. Was a complete failure for me, and I mean it. aprox. 4 year stall, no real improvement. Structuring my training, and getting closer to failure near the end of a training cycle has greatly helped me make incremental, but predictable results - and being able to perform predictably. So yeah, totally agree with you on this one, and I believe this is the biggest mistake the calisthenics community suffers from. Just shutting our ears and wanting to go all out, all hard. Might work fine, if you are 1,60m tall and the total fatigue is quite small; becomes much more difficult if you are 1,80m and weigh 25kg more. Totally different ballpark of total fatigue to manage by basically the same biology. If we look over to powerlifting, none of the guys who put up any respectable weight whatsoever would even dream of "just going hard because it feels good for the moment". Different ball park due to high external loads, yes, but we want to work ourselves towards higher loads/ higher fatiguing variations/ rep schemes/ exercises in calisthenics too, aka make progress, eh?
Superb comment. I agree 100%
These videos are excellent - easily the best on the internet
Thank you, Jeff!
Don’t burn out. Keep some strength in the bank, focus on quality reps.
This works for beginners too , right? I mean a beginner can start with daily doing 1 set of push, pull, squat and core. Then once that becomes easy, add another set. But never go to fatigue. Just shy of failure.
Yes, but it really begins on how you define beginner. Most beginners are great with this, and others need to prepare for this. It all depends on where you are at.
@@Kboges by prepare you mean even more basic than 1 set daily?
@@debanjansengupta6606 Yeah. Some people need to may do 1 set every other day. It really just depends on their history and physical capacities.
I'm Dutch and not really good to understand English. So I have a question.
How many reps before failure do you suggest?
k, why when i do push ups, i try doing slowly(with a good technique, because feels way better) but i note in a camera, that my left arm, makes the retraction normally, but in the right arm the shoulder goes forward and hits the floor, causing one arm to be retracted up and the other not, I don't know if you know why this happens, since it causes pain on that side and can cause some injury Do you have any tips?
I trained to failure for years, but one day I reduce repetitions and no to work to the failure and for some reason my muscles grow a lot to this day and now I'm my best shape ever and I don't even drink shakes. I work 5 or 6 days a week and eat everything. I think that train to the failure reduce a lot muscles...well at last for me.
Been seeing better progress sickness I stopped going to failure (only blast my triceps and calves to failure)
I don’t trust myself to *just* hit that threshold, alot of people don’t actually know how hard they are actually going mid set.
I mean, if you can stop the set earlier, why not? The human mind can subconsciously tell you “okay that’s pretty near failure” when in reality you might have been 5 reps away still..
Wow, proud of you!
Thanks so much, Sifu🙏