At the time this video was uploaded. I had 47 years of welding experience. I was working in field service on garbage trucks and equipment. My rule of thumb was weld it like your kids' lives depended on it! The broken D-ring looked more like a rookie welded it. I used a #6 .035 wire with an argon -co2 mix 80-20 . Usually at 135 amps . But 90% of my welds were done with E-7018 1/8 inch. At 125 amps. I retired after 48 years.
Hey Greg, I wasn't able to find any contact info in the "about" section of your channel. I was hoping to reach out and tell you how appreciative I am of your content. I'll just put it here... The way you present your information is exactly what I value in a teacher. Thank you so much for taking the time to put these videos together. As a brand new welder (I've only welded twice) your knowledge is priceless to me in my journey and I can't wait to make my way through your whole stick welding course. Thanks again. Ps. Let me know how to get in contact with you and I'll send you some music 😎 At this point that's all I've got to offer in return for your content💪
Thanks for the kind words 😀. I wanted to share what I know with others for a few reasons. The first being that it’s sort of useless having all the knowledge I have if I don’t share it with someone (preferably multiple people. Second, I am doing things already so it’s not hard to bring a camera along for the ride. And third, I am hopeful I can inspire some people to pickup skills. Being able to make/build stuff is a great skill that I don’t want to see lost with time. It’s also a great way out of poverty/bad situations (something I know a lot about) so hopefully I can help be a part of helping others out. With that said the best thing you can do to learn stick is to commit to practicing. Stick welding can be frustrating and patience testing. Just focus on trying to be as smooth and consistent as possible. Even if you never weld for a living it’s a great skill to have. If you ever have something that’s broken like a tractor, tv stand, or a car exhaust, for a 100-200$ welder you can fix it yourself. Now a tv stand might be cheaper than that lol but that price is cheaper than a muffler shop would charge to replace a few pieces of exhaust. Not to mention you can make money doing repairs on the side like I do. Edit: my email is weldingoldschool@gmail.com. I will be switching it to a new one coming up but I can be reached there for the time being.
Thanks so much for the kind comment. My hope is that I can inspire people and give them some useable knowledge that will help with achieving whatever it is that they want. It’s my turn to pass the torch 😀.
You're entirely welcome. Nobody is ever too late for the game, what matters is showing up and putting in some effort. I poorly welded from 16 to 20, left it completely for 14 years or so, and came back to focus on mastering what I could. Being young has the disadvantage of poor patience and a lack of overall knowledge lol.
Good content. Thanks. Straight forward and to the point. I watched another video where it was said that welding tie-downs is an excellent idea to weld to a steel plate rather than directly to the equipment you are putting the tie-downs on. That way, more welds than just those placed on the D-ring are holding it in place and provide more resistance to failure.
Thanks for sharing and you are correct. If the tie down is being welded to thin material (under 1/4in) it is a benefit to weld the d ring to a plate and then weld the plate to the material. It will be less likely to fatigue crack the material vs direct welding it.
You are succeeding. I have 10 D-Rings in a box to weld on tractor, trailer, etc. I've been doing "farmer" welding for 25 years and I've learned things each time I've watched one of your vids. Look forward to your vids. Thanks😁
@@prow6586 well I bet you’ll do a great job for sure now 😀. Just remember to make sure the d ring is in the loop before you weld it. Yes I made that mistake once 😅
Thanks for the kind words 😀. My main hope was to help people make the right decision on how to tackle the project. It’s not a hard project per say, but if someone tackles it with the wrong tool or in the wrong way there is definitely some liability.
We have 2 older LTec mig welders, they hit that spray arc level with no problem, only reason we keep them around. Super heavy machines. But we still stick weld d rings and chain hooks, couplers and spring hangers.
I taught myself how to weld. Literally never saw a video on amps or rod size. What works for me: 150A with 1/8" 7018. I cant weld anything thinner than 3/16 because ill melt a hole right through it. Great penetration though
I have been welding a ton of hooks like that (and bigger sizes) onto excavator buckets lately. A bunch of the original hooks had failed welds due to someone doing a lot of things wrong (not enough weld, poor beveling, short circuit welded, etc). To date I have not had a single hook fail, it pays to do a solid job on them 😀
Hi Greg, I am not a weldor and my suggestion may amounts to nothing; but I think if you could have a 3/8"× the length of the forged hook cutout on the base plate and plug weld the hook and then weld on both sides of the hook on the top will give greater tensile strength to the welded joints. Thank you for your great videos
Not a bad idea, the biggest limitation to that thought is access to the backside. In the situation I had it was accessible but in many situations it may not be. Your idea would also likely somewhat reduce the warping of the plate. It really comes down to how thick of material you’re welding it too and what the access is.
Loved the video Greg, there were a lot of very good Do’s and Don’ts for securely welding Hooks and D-Rings. I really like the D-Ring part with 3/32 rod on one side and 1/8 rod on the other side. It would be very interesting if you could do a quick part 2 addendum where you cut and etch all the welds to demonstrate the penetration of those type of welds. I am curious if it would be advantageous to tack weld the hook on the sides rather than the ends since they are weak points, wouldn’t they benefit from the preheat of the two sides?
I have a new stick welder in the shop and a drawer full of those, I think I will tackle doing a part two soon. Tacking on the sides would work on the hooks. The main thing about tacking is if you must run hot to get fusion. With stick, tack welds generally have good fusion. With short arc Mig the fusion is more limited on a tack. It’s also wise to stager starts and stops of welds on a multi pass weld. The start and stop is the most likely place to have weld defects (porosity, lack of fusion, etc) so having all of them in a row is undesirable.
How can we tell if it melted and blended in with the hook. That’s my only worry is Melting in instead of just looking like it Melting. Thanks. Love your videos awesome I’ve learned a lot. Thank you for sharing.
Glad to hear you learned a lot 😀. So the only true way to know if your settings are appropriate is to visually look at it, and determine if it appears that the weld has melted the materials together. That is not concrete however, that is where a cut and etch counts. certain processes like stick welding are very consistent, if the weld appears a certain way there is going to be proper penetration/fusion. With processes like Mig, it’s possible for the weld to look decent but have poor penetration. Mig weld appearance is simply less trust worthy than stick. That’s why doing a simple test weld on identical thickness materials and cut&etch it matters.
Could you test the strength of single pass vs multi-pass? If I remember correctly the minimum spec for leg size is 3/16" up to 1/2" plate. So I'm curious if you could do a bending test of 1/2" plate fillet weld with a single pass of 3/32, versus a 3 pass weld of 3/32 with 7018.
Great thought. I do have 1/2 inch plate. The only potential problem I have is my shop press claims to be 12 ton but it’s pretty hard to pump it beyond 9ton. I will give it a shot. Worst case is I will have to use the 100 ton at my work lol.
You answered a question I had about mig welding. How thick of material can flux core .045 wire weld with a 170 amp welder? (Thinking about getting the HF Titanium 170) Great information on your channel! Thank you!
So there are a bunch of things to consider, hope this helps: Straight Gasless flux core Lincoln NR-211 wire is rated (per Lincoln) up to 5/16th thick (with .045). Hobart fabshield 21b is rated for up to 3/4 thick, but they don’t specify wire size. From a educated guess a 170amp welder could weld around 3/8th with Gasless flux core wire with decent penetration. Dual shield type (gas shielded flux core wire) in .045 would have no issue welding 1/2in plate plus, however there are some caveats to this. A 170 amp welder is only capable of outputting enough power to run the wire at the low end of suggested values. I would think you would tend to get unpredictable results running .045 dual shield on something 3/8th and thicker with only 170 amps (the machines max voltage would also play a role). Remember that the flux in the wire needs to be preheated before it hits the puddle (thus long stickouts are used). Well when you run a big wire on the low side of amperage it may cause issues with porosity due to flux turning to gas inside the weld pool. I am not sure if the titanium 170 has a .045 drive roll with it or available. They do make .035 dual shield wire that would work with a 170 amp machine (esab does) with a practical thickness limitation of probably around 3/8 to possible 1/2in thick. Again the thickness limitation is mostly a function of the limited voltage and amperage of the machine than the wire. The cheapest way to weld thick steel reliably is stick welding. Harbor freights 225 stick welder can weld virtually unlimited thickness metal for under 300$. With wire welders your best bet is flux core (gas or Gasless) but you still need around a 200 amp capable machine to really get solid clean welds and penetration on over 3/8th plates. In the future I will test a 140amp machine with .035 dual shield on thick plate to see what it does 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg wow, thank you! Earlier I was looking, no the 170 doesn’t come with a .045 drive roll. I couldn’t find one for sale either. The 200 multiprocess does come with a .045” drive roll. I just pricked up the Titanium stick 225 a few weeks ago. The project I’m working on requires vertical and upside down welds on 1/4- 1/2”. I haven’t stick welded in 25 years. Im getting the hang of it again. Meanwhile my Hobart 125 went down (kinda) so I used that as justification to get the Titanium 125 for $150 with coupon a couple days ago. Now I can get the Titanium 170 for $300 till the 30th. You’re spot on with 3/8 rating for it with .035” Thanks again for the advice. I’m probably just going to hone my stick welding skills so I can weld in different positions.
Really great videos and teaching, appreciated! One thing that's been nagging at me is, what is "penetration"? Clearly its that metal that gets a different color from the base metal when etched, but is that new metal, ie filler metal - if so, where did the base metal go? Maybe its clearest with tig: when you melt the base metal locally into a pool and then add filler, I suppose that molten puddle turns into an alloy that then has a different appearance when etched? And stick also melts the base metal and filler mixes with it, but it liquefies a pool deeper into the base than tig, I suppose. Then about the purpose of penetration (heh), I suppose if you're welding a fillet joint that isn't bevelled and you can't directly weld on all of the original edges, then deeper penetration helps to cover the original edges further in that you could directly reach. And if you bevel everything and tig it so that you can see that no original base metal edges remain then the joint is as good as it can get, even though you're not penetrating as deep as if you used stick - is that correct? Or is there some benefit to having that penetration past the edge of the base metal if there are no further edges to weld in there?
So penetration is considered anything past the 90 degree intersection on a fillet weld. The same thing would hold up on a lap weld or other joint. Root fusion is when the root of the joint is fused. Root fusion can happen with no penetration. Any penetration means the root would have fused. The weld “nugget” turns a different color because acid etches it at a different rate than the base steel due to it no longer being the same alloy as the base steel. Some rods actually produce very hard to etch weld nuggets because they are close to the base material. 6013 for me tends to produce poor cut and etches. The base material was more or less liquified, mixed with the molten metal from the filler, and then it solidified as a new alloy. Stainless steel and nickel alloys are very easy to etch because acid only polishes them, while it darkens the plate. For ultimate strength of say a fillet weld, it completely depends on what loading it might see and where the force is coming from. A simple fillet weld that is welded on both sides will be able to handle loads from both directions. If it’s only welded on one side it will be massively weaker if loaded towards the side with the weld (aka bend away from the face). In most cases a full fusion beveled weld is not needed. On a fillet weld that is done is primarily when access to weld the backside isn’t possible. On a butt joint it’s very common on everything from pipe to structural beams. It’s also common to weld from one side all the way out, gouge the backside to clean metal (or grind it) and then weld it. This allows 100% solid metal for a tie In with far less skill than an open root joint. Backing strips are also very common where you melt both plates and the backing strip together. Regarding tig and welding bevels, tig has a unique ability to achieve 100% root fusion. Because you control heat separate from filler, you can actually achieve 100% bevel break down/fusion on a beveled fillet weld. With stick and mig the issue is you need heat input to fuse the root, and the higher you put the heat input typically the more metal you deposit. So you wind up in this situation that you put down really big welds in an attempt to achieve root fusion on a bevel. On a butt joint with both plates beveled and a gap it’s much easier to achieve proper fusion, but most of what the average person welds will not be this. The importance of penetration really comes down to the joint and the loading. A lack of any penetration can directly cause failures because it can be easier for the metal to use the weld as a fulcrum point (fillet weld) and a lack of penetration/root fusion can leave a finished weld that’s functionally thinner than it should be. (Weld throat depth issues). Penetration isn’t desirable on very thin material generally, or on certain materials (like cast iron) because the base material weakens welds.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Wow nice answer, thanks! Makes sense, all of it. About penetration still, so I suppose the benefit of using a hotter process (6010 stick or spray transfer mig) is that its relatively easier and more consistent to get that root fused, whereas its still possible to get that root fused the same with tig (a low penetration process) and beveling, because of that ability to apply and control heat directly. So other less penetrating processes would also work but there can be issues with filler piling up in front of the root before fully fusing it and maybe just needing excessive amounts of that filler overall. But in the end, if the root is fully fused and fillets are the same sizes, the hotter processes liquifying metal deeper within the plates all around doesn't really matter - unless it has some metallurgical effects. Am I about getting it? 😃
Great video sir, I was wondering if you heat up the whole base plate with a torch would this help with warp? Theoretically it would reduce the gap in temperature difference. What do you think?
Heating the plate will make the metal more “pliable” and will lengthen the time it takes for the weld to cool which may reduce shrinkage of the weld. Warping is primarily a result of the molten pool (or hot steel) solidifying and reducing in size as it cools. It’s the opposite of water which expands when it cools. How much it would help is hard to say. Generally speaking a low 120-150 degree preheat helps on thicker steel across the board.
So I did a whole video with welding gaps/bevels, link at the bottom. The issue with welding a gap or bevel, is it doesn’t really increase root fusion, it only increases the depth of the weld. If the setup you have won’t get fusion with a normal fillet weld of the same thickness, beveling it won’t drastically increase it. If you have a 200amp mig welder I believe you could weld those particular d rings (that have a 1/4inch thick weld on hoop). If it’s a 3/8th thick hoop it would be best to stick to spray transfer or dual shield with wire. The main issue is you can’t weld the inside of the hoop, and poor root fusion on the first pass will make it easier for the hoop to be torn off under a shock load. Here is the video on beveling: th-cam.com/video/qrFH0995IgQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=72rgBtGwmfZ_FSZs
I assume with flux core wire, you want to have a wire # that is suited for multiple passes. Would .030 be suitable in a 220V machine normally? For 3/8" plate mounts.
So a couple tips. I can tell you from my own experience flux core has issues welding over 1/4in thick without porosity issues with .030 or .035 wire. Even if you don’t see it on the surface the internal weld is poor. How you solve this is running .045 or bigger self shielded wire. The unfortunate thing with this is many welders won’t run .045 wire (don’t have rollers, liners, tips, enough power, etc, available. If yours does have the capability you will likely be able to weld 3/8th without porosity issues. Edit: if you decide to give it a shot run a weld and cut it open with a cut/etch. If you see porosity you will have very weak welds. On a flat plate butt weld it will probably be ok, anything resembling a fillet weld it won’t be (too thick of a molten pool).
That could have been done that way yes. The issue I have with that is the part that holds the D ring is made of unknown steel. If it happens to be higher strength steel the hydrogen induced by the 6010 could cause cracking issues, especially if its being welded to higher strength base steel. Most of the benefit of the 6010 pass is negated by the slight bevel I made in the loop and the fact I welded around both edges. The penetration 6010 provides prevents the metal from lifting and using the weld as a fulcrum point, but wrapping around the corners along with the bevel prevents the loop from easily lifting off the plate also. I would trust the strength of 7018 over 6010 in the case of this. You must remember most things that are welded with 6010 as a root are things like pipe, and the stresses on pipe are completely different than a d-ring. They are either internally (pressurized pipe) or externally if they they are bent due to soil movement. What works for them (where you have full internal weld reinforcement) and what would work on a single sided weld without full fusion are completely different things. 7018 also performs far better when cold, and in my own testing it has proven to significantly surpass the strength of 6010.
I would have reached for small diameter 6011, but Greg is right, those forgings will have some carbon in them. (Let's hope they aren't mild steel!) Nice tips on how to make these welds strong. Thanks!
I would avoid it. In my testing the difference in strength between 7018 and 6013 is significant. Would it hold? Well it depends. For a small d ring that has a 3/16th thick or 1/8th weld on loop you would probably be ok. For 1/4in or thicker (like what’s in the video) I would say 7018 is the only rod I would use.
Based on my testing AC has less penetration than dc. My recommendation would be DCEP for sure. For people that have AC only obviously there won’t be that choice, but DCEP for everyone else 😀
From a standpoint of strength it would be best to stick weld it all the way out. If you have a 200+ amp mig welder it could safely weld a smaller d ring that has a 1/4in thick weld on “u”. For the thicker ones that are 3/8th I wouldn’t do it with short arc and instead use spray arc of .045+ dual shield.
For d rings I would say sure, if they aren’t going to be used for heavy lifting. For the chain hooks, they are forged and of high enough strength that you should use properly stored 7018 to avoid introducing hydrogen into the material. Realistically both would not likely fail welded with 6010 or 6011 but it really comes down to expected use. Hopefully that helps.
You could use 6010 to do a root pass but with the way the loading is I would avoid it. Since the stress will be pulling the u-plate straight off the plate, a lower tensile rods weld could fail.
have you ever worked with a structural engineer? My city said i need an engineer stamp to build a 17x17ft carport in my driveway from steel. nobody in my town has returned my inquiry and the guy I found in california wants 7k$ which seemed ludicrous and is way more than the materials cost. any idea what charge would be reasonable for a project like this?
Man I wish I could help but I don’t know anyone who is a structural engineer. What you’re talking about wouldn’t be hard to actually calculate out the design/strength requirements, but without a legit stamp a city doesn’t care :(.
So the titanium 125 can successfully weld 1/4inch in my hands on testing. The d shackles in the video could be welded on provided what they are getting welded to is 1/4 in thick or less. To prep it I would grind the weld on loop down to point and I would regrind the bevel a bit more open. Run hot and do 2 passes minimum. The hooks are realistically beyond the safe welding capability of the 125. It’s possible it would be able to weld it but I would do weld/cut/etches to look before I would call it strong enough. The d shackles are much easier and with proper prep (and some skill) shouldn’t be too hard. Edit: make sure you use Lincoln’s nr-212 or other E71T-mp wire that’s rated for multi pass welding. The -GS wire is not suitable for multi pass welds and the specification of that wire is almost nothing.
Very good video...don't take offense but you still need a lot of practice with your welds, and your starts are not proper...you always start a little behind and then long arc to where you want to start...it eliminates cold start porosity.
What about my welds isn’t proper? I literally welded left hand, right hand, left to right, right to left, and with a camera in my face. I showed a realistic approach to the task, talked about any mistakes that were present, and tips on how to do the job. I think you missed the point of the video, if everything was absolutely perfect there wouldn’t be much of a how to video. Also, starting porosity is non existent with 7018s that have graphite tips, there is little to no need to start ahead and long arc with such rods.
Grounding to a table is no different than grounding on a trailer near where you’re welding. Grounding on that particular plate would just mean the ground clamp gets spatter on it which is not ideal. You can also induce arc blow by clamping to your work piece over clamping to a thick table due to the resistance of hot metal. Also, regarding the angle grinder, I run a grinder the way I want to. Its not complacency when I have been up front about it in numerous videos. That particular grinder doesn’t have much power and I am wearing a welding hood, so the risk is virtually zero. You can choose to run the same grinder different, that’s up to you.
the hardest thing to weld togeter is spray cheese and crackers only 1 out of every 9999 welders can do these ok ok ok these is ment as a joke leve me alone
I’ve viewed a significant number of welding videos on TH-cam and without any doubt this guy’s videos are the best and most informative.
Your entirely too kind and thank you. I just want to help people out and provide useful information 😀
Right away we knew this guys a pro.
Well said Sir.
No short cuts! Nice video
At the time this video was uploaded. I had 47 years of welding experience. I was working in field service on garbage trucks and equipment. My rule of thumb was weld it like your kids' lives depended on it!
The broken D-ring looked more like a rookie welded it. I used a #6 .035 wire with an argon -co2 mix 80-20 . Usually at 135 amps . But 90% of my welds were done with E-7018 1/8 inch. At 125 amps. I retired after 48 years.
Hey Greg, I wasn't able to find any contact info in the "about" section of your channel. I was hoping to reach out and tell you how appreciative I am of your content. I'll just put it here...
The way you present your information is exactly what I value in a teacher. Thank you so much for taking the time to put these videos together. As a brand new welder (I've only welded twice) your knowledge is priceless to me in my journey and I can't wait to make my way through your whole stick welding course. Thanks again.
Ps. Let me know how to get in contact with you and I'll send you some music 😎 At this point that's all I've got to offer in return for your content💪
Thanks for the kind words 😀. I wanted to share what I know with others for a few reasons. The first being that it’s sort of useless having all the knowledge I have if I don’t share it with someone (preferably multiple people. Second, I am doing things already so it’s not hard to bring a camera along for the ride. And third, I am hopeful I can inspire some people to pickup skills. Being able to make/build stuff is a great skill that I don’t want to see lost with time. It’s also a great way out of poverty/bad situations (something I know a lot about) so hopefully I can help be a part of helping others out.
With that said the best thing you can do to learn stick is to commit to practicing. Stick welding can be frustrating and patience testing. Just focus on trying to be as smooth and consistent as possible. Even if you never weld for a living it’s a great skill to have. If you ever have something that’s broken like a tractor, tv stand, or a car exhaust, for a 100-200$ welder you can fix it yourself. Now a tv stand might be cheaper than that lol but that price is cheaper than a muffler shop would charge to replace a few pieces of exhaust. Not to mention you can make money doing repairs on the side like I do.
Edit: my email is weldingoldschool@gmail.com. I will be switching it to a new one coming up but I can be reached there for the time being.
Amazing content. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Videos with effective content like this one, is hard to come by nowadays.
Thanks so much for the kind comment. My hope is that I can inspire people and give them some useable knowledge that will help with achieving whatever it is that they want. It’s my turn to pass the torch 😀.
Thank you for your time and effort, very helpful , actually the most helpful to those that are late yo the game .
You're entirely welcome. Nobody is ever too late for the game, what matters is showing up and putting in some effort. I poorly welded from 16 to 20, left it completely for 14 years or so, and came back to focus on mastering what I could. Being young has the disadvantage of poor patience and a lack of overall knowledge lol.
Good content. Thanks. Straight forward and to the point. I watched another video where it was said that welding tie-downs is an excellent idea to weld to a steel plate rather than directly to the equipment you are putting the tie-downs on. That way, more welds than just those placed on the D-ring are holding it in place and provide more resistance to failure.
Thanks for sharing and you are correct. If the tie down is being welded to thin material (under 1/4in) it is a benefit to weld the d ring to a plate and then weld the plate to the material. It will be less likely to fatigue crack the material vs direct welding it.
Great advice for a new guy like me
Thank u Greg this series is Amazing thank u for taking ur time for us to learn Thank u God Bless🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Thanks. I appreciate the lessons plus explaining why you are doing something. I've learned a lot from your videos...🤠🍻👍
Glad I helped you out 😀. I am hoping to help people gain the knowledge and confidence to tackle projects
You are succeeding. I have 10 D-Rings in a box to weld on tractor, trailer, etc. I've been doing "farmer" welding for 25 years and I've learned things each time I've watched one of your vids. Look forward to your vids. Thanks😁
@@prow6586 well I bet you’ll do a great job for sure now 😀. Just remember to make sure the d ring is in the loop before you weld it. Yes I made that mistake once 😅
Very accurate information presented here. Nice job Sir. You got my vote.
Thanks for the kind words 😀. My main hope was to help people make the right decision on how to tackle the project. It’s not a hard project per say, but if someone tackles it with the wrong tool or in the wrong way there is definitely some liability.
We have 2 older LTec mig welders, they hit that spray arc level with no problem, only reason we keep them around. Super heavy machines. But we still stick weld d rings and chain hooks, couplers and spring hangers.
Honestly I am more of a fan of stick for stuff like that too. It seems to be flat out reliable, consistent, and strong.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg 7018 is a must in our shop for anything that could come apart and kill someone.
Very well explained technique and thought process. Thank you.
You’re welcome, glad it helped you out 😀
I taught myself how to weld. Literally never saw a video on amps or rod size.
What works for me: 150A with 1/8" 7018. I cant weld anything thinner than 3/16 because ill melt a hole right through it. Great penetration though
Excellent Instruction!!!
Thanks!
You’re welcome, glad the info helped 😀
Thank you so much for this video, this is exactly what I need to learn.
No problem, I am glad it helped 😃.
Thanks for this content!if that hook ever fails, I don’t want to be anywhere in the same zip code! That is ON THERE!
I have been welding a ton of hooks like that (and bigger sizes) onto excavator buckets lately. A bunch of the original hooks had failed welds due to someone doing a lot of things wrong (not enough weld, poor beveling, short circuit welded, etc). To date I have not had a single hook fail, it pays to do a solid job on them 😀
A really nice tutorial. Thank you.
You're welcome, glad I could help you out 😀
Again great explanation, thanks
No problem 😀
Hi Greg,
I am not a weldor and my suggestion may amounts to nothing; but I think if you could have a 3/8"× the length of the forged hook cutout on the base plate and plug weld the hook and then weld on both sides of the hook on the top will give greater tensile strength to the welded joints.
Thank you for your great videos
Not a bad idea, the biggest limitation to that thought is access to the backside. In the situation I had it was accessible but in many situations it may not be. Your idea would also likely somewhat reduce the warping of the plate. It really comes down to how thick of material you’re welding it too and what the access is.
Your video is AMAZING!
Loved the video Greg, there were a lot of very good Do’s and Don’ts for securely welding Hooks and D-Rings. I really like the D-Ring part with 3/32 rod on one side and 1/8 rod on the other side. It would be very interesting if you could do a quick part 2 addendum where you cut and etch all the welds to demonstrate the penetration of those type of welds. I am curious if it would be advantageous to tack weld the hook on the sides rather than the ends since they are weak points, wouldn’t they benefit from the preheat of the two sides?
I have a new stick welder in the shop and a drawer full of those, I think I will tackle doing a part two soon. Tacking on the sides would work on the hooks. The main thing about tacking is if you must run hot to get fusion. With stick, tack welds generally have good fusion. With short arc Mig the fusion is more limited on a tack. It’s also wise to stager starts and stops of welds on a multi pass weld. The start and stop is the most likely place to have weld defects (porosity, lack of fusion, etc) so having all of them in a row is undesirable.
You used my standard method on the 2nd side of that hook , weld poorly, grind and repeat 😂
How can we tell if it melted and blended in with the hook. That’s my only worry is Melting in instead of just looking like it Melting. Thanks. Love your videos awesome I’ve learned a lot. Thank you for sharing.
Glad to hear you learned a lot 😀. So the only true way to know if your settings are appropriate is to visually look at it, and determine if it appears that the weld has melted the materials together. That is not concrete however, that is where a cut and etch counts. certain processes like stick welding are very consistent, if the weld appears a certain way there is going to be proper penetration/fusion. With processes like Mig, it’s possible for the weld to look decent but have poor penetration. Mig weld appearance is simply less trust worthy than stick. That’s why doing a simple test weld on identical thickness materials and cut&etch it matters.
Could you test the strength of single pass vs multi-pass? If I remember correctly the minimum spec for leg size is 3/16" up to 1/2" plate. So I'm curious if you could do a bending test of 1/2" plate fillet weld with a single pass of 3/32, versus a 3 pass weld of 3/32 with 7018.
Great thought. I do have 1/2 inch plate. The only potential problem I have is my shop press claims to be 12 ton but it’s pretty hard to pump it beyond 9ton. I will give it a shot. Worst case is I will have to use the 100 ton at my work lol.
You answered a question I had about mig welding. How thick of material can flux core .045 wire weld with a 170 amp welder? (Thinking about getting the HF Titanium 170)
Great information on your channel! Thank you!
So there are a bunch of things to consider, hope this helps:
Straight Gasless flux core Lincoln NR-211 wire is rated (per Lincoln) up to 5/16th thick (with .045). Hobart fabshield 21b is rated for up to 3/4 thick, but they don’t specify wire size. From a educated guess a 170amp welder could weld around 3/8th with Gasless flux core wire with decent penetration.
Dual shield type (gas shielded flux core wire) in .045 would have no issue welding 1/2in plate plus, however there are some caveats to this. A 170 amp welder is only capable of outputting enough power to run the wire at the low end of suggested values. I would think you would tend to get unpredictable results running .045 dual shield on something 3/8th and thicker with only 170 amps (the machines max voltage would also play a role). Remember that the flux in the wire needs to be preheated before it hits the puddle (thus long stickouts are used). Well when you run a big wire on the low side of amperage it may cause issues with porosity due to flux turning to gas inside the weld pool.
I am not sure if the titanium 170 has a .045 drive roll with it or available. They do make .035 dual shield wire that would work with a 170 amp machine (esab does) with a practical thickness limitation of probably around 3/8 to possible 1/2in thick. Again the thickness limitation is mostly a function of the limited voltage and amperage of the machine than the wire.
The cheapest way to weld thick steel reliably is stick welding. Harbor freights 225 stick welder can weld virtually unlimited thickness metal for under 300$. With wire welders your best bet is flux core (gas or Gasless) but you still need around a 200 amp capable machine to really get solid clean welds and penetration on over 3/8th plates. In the future I will test a 140amp machine with .035 dual shield on thick plate to see what it does 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg wow, thank you! Earlier I was looking, no the 170 doesn’t come with a .045 drive roll. I couldn’t find one for sale either. The 200 multiprocess does come with a .045” drive roll. I just pricked up the Titanium stick 225 a few weeks ago. The project I’m working on requires vertical and upside down welds on 1/4- 1/2”. I haven’t stick welded in 25 years. Im getting the hang of it again.
Meanwhile my Hobart 125 went down (kinda) so I used that as justification to get the Titanium 125 for $150 with coupon a couple days ago.
Now I can get the Titanium 170 for $300 till the 30th. You’re spot on with 3/8 rating for it with .035”
Thanks again for the advice. I’m probably just going to hone my stick welding skills so I can weld in different positions.
Really great videos and teaching, appreciated!
One thing that's been nagging at me is, what is "penetration"? Clearly its that metal that gets a different color from the base metal when etched, but is that new metal, ie filler metal - if so, where did the base metal go? Maybe its clearest with tig: when you melt the base metal locally into a pool and then add filler, I suppose that molten puddle turns into an alloy that then has a different appearance when etched? And stick also melts the base metal and filler mixes with it, but it liquefies a pool deeper into the base than tig, I suppose.
Then about the purpose of penetration (heh), I suppose if you're welding a fillet joint that isn't bevelled and you can't directly weld on all of the original edges, then deeper penetration helps to cover the original edges further in that you could directly reach. And if you bevel everything and tig it so that you can see that no original base metal edges remain then the joint is as good as it can get, even though you're not penetrating as deep as if you used stick - is that correct? Or is there some benefit to having that penetration past the edge of the base metal if there are no further edges to weld in there?
So penetration is considered anything past the 90 degree intersection on a fillet weld. The same thing would hold up on a lap weld or other joint. Root fusion is when the root of the joint is fused. Root fusion can happen with no penetration. Any penetration means the root would have fused.
The weld “nugget” turns a different color because acid etches it at a different rate than the base steel due to it no longer being the same alloy as the base steel. Some rods actually produce very hard to etch weld nuggets because they are close to the base material. 6013 for me tends to produce poor cut and etches. The base material was more or less liquified, mixed with the molten metal from the filler, and then it solidified as a new alloy. Stainless steel and nickel alloys are very easy to etch because acid only polishes them, while it darkens the plate.
For ultimate strength of say a fillet weld, it completely depends on what loading it might see and where the force is coming from. A simple fillet weld that is welded on both sides will be able to handle loads from both directions. If it’s only welded on one side it will be massively weaker if loaded towards the side with the weld (aka bend away from the face). In most cases a full fusion beveled weld is not needed. On a fillet weld that is done is primarily when access to weld the backside isn’t possible. On a butt joint it’s very common on everything from pipe to structural beams. It’s also common to weld from one side all the way out, gouge the backside to clean metal (or grind it) and then weld it. This allows 100% solid metal for a tie In with far less skill than an open root joint. Backing strips are also very common where you melt both plates and the backing strip together.
Regarding tig and welding bevels, tig has a unique ability to achieve 100% root fusion. Because you control heat separate from filler, you can actually achieve 100% bevel break down/fusion on a beveled fillet weld. With stick and mig the issue is you need heat input to fuse the root, and the higher you put the heat input typically the more metal you deposit. So you wind up in this situation that you put down really big welds in an attempt to achieve root fusion on a bevel. On a butt joint with both plates beveled and a gap it’s much easier to achieve proper fusion, but most of what the average person welds will not be this.
The importance of penetration really comes down to the joint and the loading. A lack of any penetration can directly cause failures because it can be easier for the metal to use the weld as a fulcrum point (fillet weld) and a lack of penetration/root fusion can leave a finished weld that’s functionally thinner than it should be. (Weld throat depth issues). Penetration isn’t desirable on very thin material generally, or on certain materials (like cast iron) because the base material weakens welds.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Wow nice answer, thanks!
Makes sense, all of it.
About penetration still, so I suppose the benefit of using a hotter process (6010 stick or spray transfer mig) is that its relatively easier and more consistent to get that root fused, whereas its still possible to get that root fused the same with tig (a low penetration process) and beveling, because of that ability to apply and control heat directly. So other less penetrating processes would also work but there can be issues with filler piling up in front of the root before fully fusing it and maybe just needing excessive amounts of that filler overall. But in the end, if the root is fully fused and fillets are the same sizes, the hotter processes liquifying metal deeper within the plates all around doesn't really matter - unless it has some metallurgical effects. Am I about getting it? 😃
@@makingmistakeswithgregYou could compile all your answers and create a nice FAQ or book. Awesome content and answers for your viewers. Thanks.
Thanks! Very informative.
Glad it helped you out 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg You have no idea how much your videos help us out. Thanks again!
Great video sir, I was wondering if you heat up the whole base plate with a torch would this help with warp? Theoretically it would reduce the gap in temperature difference. What do you think?
Heating the plate will make the metal more “pliable” and will lengthen the time it takes for the weld to cool which may reduce shrinkage of the weld. Warping is primarily a result of the molten pool (or hot steel) solidifying and reducing in size as it cools. It’s the opposite of water which expands when it cools. How much it would help is hard to say. Generally speaking a low 120-150 degree preheat helps on thicker steel across the board.
nice job
Might the mig work on those hooks if you left a gap on the root pass?
So I did a whole video with welding gaps/bevels, link at the bottom. The issue with welding a gap or bevel, is it doesn’t really increase root fusion, it only increases the depth of the weld. If the setup you have won’t get fusion with a normal fillet weld of the same thickness, beveling it won’t drastically increase it. If you have a 200amp mig welder I believe you could weld those particular d rings (that have a 1/4inch thick weld on hoop). If it’s a 3/8th thick hoop it would be best to stick to spray transfer or dual shield with wire. The main issue is you can’t weld the inside of the hoop, and poor root fusion on the first pass will make it easier for the hoop to be torn off under a shock load.
Here is the video on beveling:
th-cam.com/video/qrFH0995IgQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=72rgBtGwmfZ_FSZs
Hey Brian. Tee Shirt link doesn't work.
I assume with flux core wire, you want to have a wire # that is suited for multiple passes. Would .030 be suitable in a 220V machine normally? For 3/8" plate mounts.
So a couple tips. I can tell you from my own experience flux core has issues welding over 1/4in thick without porosity issues with .030 or .035 wire. Even if you don’t see it on the surface the internal weld is poor. How you solve this is running .045 or bigger self shielded wire. The unfortunate thing with this is many welders won’t run .045 wire (don’t have rollers, liners, tips, enough power, etc, available. If yours does have the capability you will likely be able to weld 3/8th without porosity issues.
Edit: if you decide to give it a shot run a weld and cut it open with a cut/etch. If you see porosity you will have very weak welds. On a flat plate butt weld it will probably be ok, anything resembling a fillet weld it won’t be (too thick of a molten pool).
@@makingmistakeswithgreg 10-4, thanks a lot. Sounds like once again, the trusty stick welder still has its place 😁👍
For the first pass, would you not of been better to run a 6010 for the better penetration as they dig in deeper? Then second and third pass with 7018?
That could have been done that way yes. The issue I have with that is the part that holds the D ring is made of unknown steel. If it happens to be higher strength steel the hydrogen induced by the 6010 could cause cracking issues, especially if its being welded to higher strength base steel. Most of the benefit of the 6010 pass is negated by the slight bevel I made in the loop and the fact I welded around both edges. The penetration 6010 provides prevents the metal from lifting and using the weld as a fulcrum point, but wrapping around the corners along with the bevel prevents the loop from easily lifting off the plate also. I would trust the strength of 7018 over 6010 in the case of this. You must remember most things that are welded with 6010 as a root are things like pipe, and the stresses on pipe are completely different than a d-ring. They are either internally (pressurized pipe) or externally if they they are bent due to soil movement. What works for them (where you have full internal weld reinforcement) and what would work on a single sided weld without full fusion are completely different things. 7018 also performs far better when cold, and in my own testing it has proven to significantly surpass the strength of 6010.
I would have reached for small diameter 6011, but Greg is right, those forgings will have some carbon in them. (Let's hope they aren't mild steel!)
Nice tips on how to make these welds strong. Thanks!
For light duty use, could D rings be welded with 6013?
I would avoid it. In my testing the difference in strength between 7018 and 6013 is significant. Would it hold? Well it depends. For a small d ring that has a 3/16th thick or 1/8th weld on loop you would probably be ok. For 1/4in or thicker (like what’s in the video) I would say 7018 is the only rod I would use.
Would you use AC or DCEP? Or does it matter?
Based on my testing AC has less penetration than dc. My recommendation would be DCEP for sure. For people that have AC only obviously there won’t be that choice, but DCEP for everyone else 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I appreciate the reply! Thank you. The video was real helpful.
Could you mig the inner and stick the outer area?
From a standpoint of strength it would be best to stick weld it all the way out. If you have a 200+ amp mig welder it could safely weld a smaller d ring that has a 1/4in thick weld on “u”. For the thicker ones that are 3/8th I wouldn’t do it with short arc and instead use spray arc of .045+ dual shield.
Thanks for all the correct info, Great!
No problem 😀
Would 6010 or 6011 okay for this application?
For d rings I would say sure, if they aren’t going to be used for heavy lifting. For the chain hooks, they are forged and of high enough strength that you should use properly stored 7018 to avoid introducing hydrogen into the material. Realistically both would not likely fail welded with 6010 or 6011 but it really comes down to expected use. Hopefully that helps.
good commentary. gate hinge video maybe?
I probably could do that, I will have to see if I can find some weldable hinges :0
Sir, Fleet Farm destroys Farm and Fleet in a head to head battle, and I will die on that hill.
I 100% agree with that lol. Fleet farm has far more useful stuff, a gun store, and better clothing 😀
Really just giving me an excuse to get some 92/8 or something gas and try globular or spray MIG... oh, I see you just mentioned that.
Spray or globular can handle those d rings or chain hooks all day for sure 😀
Numb question: would a 6010 root…
You could use 6010 to do a root pass but with the way the loading is I would avoid it. Since the stress will be pulling the u-plate straight off the plate, a lower tensile rods weld could fail.
have you ever worked with a structural engineer? My city said i need an engineer stamp to build a 17x17ft carport in my driveway from steel. nobody in my town has returned my inquiry and the guy I found in california wants 7k$ which seemed ludicrous and is way more than the materials cost. any idea what charge would be reasonable for a project like this?
Man I wish I could help but I don’t know anyone who is a structural engineer. What you’re talking about wouldn’t be hard to actually calculate out the design/strength requirements, but without a legit stamp a city doesn’t care :(.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg yeah, love them gov workers. they are here to help you. lol
That failed D ring is inexperience plain and simple!
What if you shave half the flux off your electrode 😅
You will put down a solid bead of 98% porosity lol.
Now, cut across all 4 welds with saw and see what you have.
Thanks for teaching! Would a titanium 125 welder be sufficient to weld these to a dump trailer?
Thanks in advance!
So the titanium 125 can successfully weld 1/4inch in my hands on testing. The d shackles in the video could be welded on provided what they are getting welded to is 1/4 in thick or less. To prep it I would grind the weld on loop down to point and I would regrind the bevel a bit more open. Run hot and do 2 passes minimum. The hooks are realistically beyond the safe welding capability of the 125. It’s possible it would be able to weld it but I would do weld/cut/etches to look before I would call it strong enough. The d shackles are much easier and with proper prep (and some skill) shouldn’t be too hard.
Edit: make sure you use Lincoln’s nr-212 or other E71T-mp wire that’s rated for multi pass welding. The -GS wire is not suitable for multi pass welds and the specification of that wire is almost nothing.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg
Excellent info. Thanks again for the tips and replying man!
@@sjlouvieify no problem 😀
Very good video...don't take offense but you still need a lot of practice with your welds, and your starts are not proper...you always start a little behind and then long arc to where you want to start...it eliminates cold start porosity.
What about my welds isn’t proper? I literally welded left hand, right hand, left to right, right to left, and with a camera in my face. I showed a realistic approach to the task, talked about any mistakes that were present, and tips on how to do the job. I think you missed the point of the video, if everything was absolutely perfect there wouldn’t be much of a how to video. Also, starting porosity is non existent with 7018s that have graphite tips, there is little to no need to start ahead and long arc with such rods.
I was not aware of the start capabilities of 7018s...but as far as your welds...leaves much to be desired.
Angle grinder complacency. Ground complacency. You can hear the plate gliding on the dingleberries. Ground the work piece not the table.
Grounding to a table is no different than grounding on a trailer near where you’re welding. Grounding on that particular plate would just mean the ground clamp gets spatter on it which is not ideal. You can also induce arc blow by clamping to your work piece over clamping to a thick table due to the resistance of hot metal. Also, regarding the angle grinder, I run a grinder the way I want to. Its not complacency when I have been up front about it in numerous videos. That particular grinder doesn’t have much power and I am wearing a welding hood, so the risk is virtually zero. You can choose to run the same grinder different, that’s up to you.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg well at least clean the dingleberries off of your table.
Just weld them with 6013 and never look back.
Haha it might hold, but being fast at ducking will be a must under decent loads lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Yep, Weld and run. dont look back.
Root gap.
the hardest thing to weld togeter is spray cheese and crackers only 1 out of every 9999 welders can do these
ok ok ok these is ment as a joke leve me alone
thes comment made me hungary
for
cheese
and
crackers 4 months later