Thanks, Greg, and with this episode you bring home the point not to blindly trust 'general recommendation' in your specific application. With a few welds, cuts, and etches, ensures you know what you are doing. There are so many YT-welder channels that simply are basing their conclusion only by looking at the bead - and that is it. But thankfully, we have you to enlightening us with your amazing video content. This is much appreciated, and by the way, outdoor condition slowly turns favorable for welding practices again. Cheers.
Just wait until I get into MiG welding with short arc MiG, some of those tests will be eye opening as far as welds “looking good” compared to what’s under the surface lol
This was a great video for me as I was just getting to the point where I could wrap my head around the differences and applications of 6010 v 6013 v 7018 when all of a sudden you started talking about a bunch of other rod types and, as a noob to this, I was ready to throw in the towel. Lol With this test of all the ones you have been mentioning things make a lot more sense. Especially the cut and etch that you do to show what's actually going on inside the weld. That must take a lot of time to do but it makes a HUGE difference in actually understanding welding. Many thanks for this great work!!
I am glad the video helped. You are right, it is a ton of information, and never feel bad if you can’t retain/understand it all. I have years of retaining small bits of knowledge, it’s far too much to much to retain in a short time. The key to stick welding is mastering one rod, it doesn’t really matter what it is. When you can run solid passes consistently with one rod, the learning curve with any other is far less. In all of my stick welding work projects I pretty much either weld with 7018 or 6010 (occasionally 7024). I have no reason to use 6013,6011,7014. For thin material 1/16th 6013s work good, but that’s about it. 6011 and 7014 are more for AC buzz boxes and welders that struggle with 6010 and 7018. Again people have their own personal preferences but considering I could literally build anything from a bridge to a trailer with 7018 and 6010 I don’t need to be good at the other common rods. I don’t stick weld material under 3/16th thick, so the benefits some rods have on thin materials is of no use either. I look at stick as putting down metal on thick material, thin material I tig or MiG. It doesn’t hurt to be proficient at all common rods, it’s just that once you get good at 7018 and 6010 you look at 7014, 6011, and 6013 as sort of unnecessary outside of sheet metal. The 7014/6011/6013 rods aren’t bad to learn on and definitely can put down good welds, most people simply leave them behind if they run modern DC stick welders. Another way to look at it is what rod to use between 7018/6010 combo vs 6011/6013/7014 combo has more to do with the welder you have and not much to do with what rod is “better” for the situation.
I did go back and test 7014 again at 130 and 120 amps, that short video will be out tomorrow at 12noon. Those results are definitely interesting 🧐. What do you guys think of the results of the testing in this video?
Thanks for this test and your comments. I am just starting and you have confirmed other suggestions to focus on 6010 and 7018 until I can run them reliably. I agree with other comments that cutting and etching is the only way to really understand what is going on at the root of the beads. Thanks so much for doing this work for our community of welders and wanna be welders!
I have a friend that's a really good welder. He would never teach me anything. I've learn so much from your videos. I bought a cheep Chinese stick and MIG and learned flux core from you. Thank you so much.
Once again, you outdid yourself. That is the most helpful stick welding video I've ever seen, bar none. It really helps to see all the more common rods lined up like you did, cut and etched and with appropriate amperage. THANKS!!
Great video! if you had a 110 stick welder that could run 6010 you could probably weld a rusty battleship with it! The penetration is outstanding. Thanks for doing welding videos that nobody else is doing.
Thanks for the kind comment. 90 amps with a 110 welder is possible but is at the limit of a 20amp breaker. The esab rogue 180 will do it. And you’re right, pretty crazy to think a little welder the size of a shoe box could blast halfway through 1/4in plate on 110 volt lol. I am sure it would do the same on 3/8th plate too. Pretty hard to beat that kind of performance with any welding process on 110 volt.
I just bought a older esab i90 off market place for 50 bucks , tig welds as well as my maxstar 210. .... I almost feel like I should bring the guy a case of beer to make it right lol
Greg, I’ve watched a number of your videos and enjoy them very much with your results. I get the impression that you weld with only a DC welder and not an AC welder. In this particular video, you talk about the lack of penetration with 7014, 6013, 6011, and 7024 welding rod. Although, in this particular video, you have a decent amount of penetration with a 7024 rod and I think that’s because you cranked up the heat. In those mentioned welding rod, those are all AC welding rod in contrast to 6010 and a lot of 7018 which are DCEP. When welding with 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7024 on AC there is good penetration. So with your DC only welder I would crank up the arc force 100% for those particular rods and see how those results are compared the DC only rods. That would be the closest you could get your DC welder to emulate an AC welder. Also, you don’t mention the percentage of iron in 7014, 7024, and 7018. I believe all the welding rod that you used in this test were all 1/8” welding rod. I believe you will find that using 3/32” diameter rod you will find the amperage setting to be the same as 6010, 6013 (maybe), 6011, 1/8” diameter. Since 7014 and 7018 the flux is 30% iron and with 7024 for the flux is a whopping 70%. All that iron is not chipped off with the slag. It is part of the weld. So therefore, backing down to 3/32” on those rod will give better penetration results without changing the welder setting as much. I myself learned on a very old AC welder as a kid while living on a farm in Indiana. My father bought this welder from a very experienced welder who worked in the steel mills of northwest Indiana who did our farm welding. I currently own that welder after I restored it. It is a very early AC 240/440 VAC 175 amp industrial welder Glenn-Roberts brand with a patent from 1939 it also has a couple of very large power factor correction capacitors with very old date codes (1930’s?) on them. More recently, I have added a full-wave rectifier for DC operation for 100% arc force and a large inductor choke for no-arc force DC operation. It is the best AC welder I have used.
Greg, I cant get over how good your instructional videos are. After watching your series on stick welding they will be put away for reference.After watching this one along with your other videos I have come to the conclusion that stick welding is the way to go for almost everything except aluminum. A lot of videos on subjects other than welding seem to have a “ thanks” button somewhere but yours dont. I think you should be compensated in some manner for all the good work you produce. How do you have time to put these videos out? Are you a full time welder? I am an octogenarian and a retired physician who finds welding a fun subject. You are one helluva teacher and have helped me immensely. Many thanks indeed!
Thanks for the kind words and sorry for the delay in response. Stick welding is indeed very useful and I personally like it far more than wire processes. By skill level and experience I am mostly a tig welder, and it’s what I enjoy the most. I recently switched to doing more or less full time repair/welding, but ultimately I will likely become a college instructor. I am able to make videos and work a normal job because I am used to working 80+ hours a week. Prior to starting my channel I spent a decade restoring an old school I owned, which consumed all my time. I decided to sell it and seek the next adventure in my life, and due to not being able to work on it (for the over 1 year it took to sell) I decided to start a TH-cam channel. So here I am, a year later, still doing the TH-cam thing 😀. I haven’t exactly found what that next thing is in my life, I really want an old building to restore again, but nothing is for sale within a hour of me. Ultimately I just want to share skills with people and help people believe in themselves. The fact I have been able to do that through TH-cam has been a blessing for me 😀
Most admirable. The college instructor position would be a good goal. You certainly have the knack to be a great teacher. Good luck! Keep up the good humour👍
Greg, gotta give you a KUDOS for this vid. Truly surprising outcomes when I actually thought there would be some opposing outcomes from my 'knowledge'. So, I really appreciate what you share, and the commentary that goes with it. I've never been a 6013 fan and when I just started to get back into welding a couple years ago, I consistently failed to get a worthwhile bead out of it. The constant inclusions nearly killed me. However, I digress, I think manufactures certainly make these rods all differently, just like Flux-Cored wires are sometimes WAY better than others (E.G. Blue Demon over HF Vulcan). And to that, I've found most HF 'Vulcan' wire AND rods are consistently poor products in general. My point; could you elaborate on what manufacture of rods you were using please? I'm interested in burning some 7018's after watching this. Thanks again, Cheers!
Thanks for the kind comment 😃. I find that 6013 on ac runs good but when you have a bad day with it you have your work cut out for you lol. Those rods I was running definitely are old, and I probably should buy new ones to try, but the only reason for me have them around is to shoot a video. For rods the 7018s I was running are esab 7018 prime rods, they come in 4lb dry packs that don’t require a rod oven before use (for code work). I really like the way they run. The 6010 was Lincoln electric 5p red rods, which is a more aggressive 6010 vs the 5p plus. 7014 was esab standard, 6013 Hobart, and 7024 was blue demon. The 7018 primes have been my go to 7018 for a couple years. They are cheaper/more available at local places than Lincoln Excalibur (I like those too) and they come in perfect “job packs” for me. I stopped using a rod oven years ago because I burn through 70-90% of a pack on a job, and just put the few that are left in a communal practice container. When you have 5 or 10 lb packs it’s much harder to get through that many on a job which leaves far more leftovers that technically need to be in a rod oven. They also have solid starts because of a graphite tip, no starting porosity at all.
Love it. Thank you for doing these. I learned for sure. I've burned all those rods but very few 7024 or 7014's. I figured 6011 and 6010 would be very similar although they seem to burn differently. I think 6011 is easier and easier for filling holes and blow outs. Very interesting stuff.
6011 is really good on 1/8th and under. 6010 takes far more work to not blow holes and is far harsher of a arc. A lot of people don’t like 6011 but honestly it has its place.
I wonder whether a smaller diameter rod 3/32" at really high amps at DCEP and steeper angle could do the trick for burning out the root in case of 6013, 6011, 7014, 7018 compared to the 1/8" diameter. Jody of welding tips and tricks also had poor fusion of the root for 6011 especially downhill.
Greg, I cant get over how good your videos are. After watching your series on stick welding they will be put away for reference. After watching most of your videos I have come to the conclusion that stick welding is the way to go for almost everything except aluminum. . A lot of videos on subjects other than welding always have a thanks button somewhere but you dont. I think you should be recompensed for all the good work you produce. How do you have time to put these videos out? Are you a full time welder? I am an octogenarian and a retired physician who finds welding a fun subject. You are one helluva teacher and have helped me immensely. Many thanks indeed!!
Very informative. Thank you. I usually run 7014 at 120A. I like how it feels at that setting. I was surprised at the difference between 6010 and 6011. Like you I've considered them interchangeable. Clearly they aren't if strength and penetration are the goal,, which they should be for other than art work. Well done.
Thanks for the kind words and no problem 😀. In some sense it makes sense that 6011 would have less penetration, since it tends to work better on sheet metal. On thicker metal it’s far more significant than I would have thought.
Thank, Greg I do most of my welding with 6011 but seeing the results you got with 6010 at a much lower amperage ,I am going get a box and try it out. Have you tried 6010 in vertical up, vertical down and over head? I would love to hear about your results in these positions and any tips you could give. Thanks again for your videos.
I have done a lot of welding with 6010 in all positions. It runs fine out of position because of how fast the puddle freezes. The main downside to 6010 over 6011 is the arc is more aggressive. The red rod 6010 has a very aggressive arc and will make quick work of 1/8th thick steel when welding uphill (Aka blow holes). The grey rod (5p) 6010 has a softer arc and I think is better suited on thinner material out of position. 6011 to me works far better on thinner material out of position than 6010. The main benefit of 6010 over 6011 is huge penetration increase on 3/16th and thicker steel. The best tips I can give you is to practice running it out of position. It may sound stupid but 6011 out of position is a great way to practice for 6010 out of position, because it’s more forgiving but runs similar. You must keep a tight arc, which is tough to do when the rod burns off so aggressively. It’s very easy to have the rod burn off to a excessively long arc gap before you know it. 6010 and 6011 need to have more rod pushed in per inch of weld than 7018 so you need to feed the puddle a decent amount. It really helps if you take a step forward, stop & let the rod deposit metal, then take a step ahead. When you step out of the puddle it freezes which gives you the ability to stack “metal on metal”. Make sure your welder can run 6010 before you buy them, many welders claim to be able to but won’t keep the arc lit.
I agree, I am going to fool around with the 7014s I have on some 1/8th in and thinner material to see how they do 😀. I even have some 1/16th 7014s that did work really good on thin tube.
With 6013 and 7014 you get easily slag wormholes. Running with higher than recommended amperage but short arc works almost 100%. Also starting a good sized weldpool at the beginning of the weld( slower travelspeed) helps in preventing wormhole inclusions.
i think you need more amps for the 6013. had this problem once and with higher amps it was running fine. i welded 45 years old moist 6013 from a cellar some months ago, no problems.
I have tested varying amperages with rods and beyond a certain point penetration won’t increase because your travel speed must increase. You end up depositing more metal above the plate as the burn off rate increases, but the actual penetration when you’re in the range of normal for the rod doesn’t. Stepping up in rod size generally will increase penetration . That’s definitely something I need to test.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg i was not talking about penetration. 6013 doesnt penetrate much. i was talking about the problem of having holes and the arc wandering from one side to the other. if that happens you need more amps in my experinece for 6013.
Hi Greg, I know you've moved on from stick welding but just a question... Is there a correlation between penetration & tensile strength? As the 6010 seems to give more penetration than both 70,000 tensile strength rods. Cheers
Great question, and don’t worry I haven’t moved on from stick welding forever 😀. So tensile test is a test where a specimen (basically a specific cylinder of the alloy the filler is made from) is pulled and the max pressure is calculated into a PSI rating. A 70k tensile strength alloy will take far more pressure to pull apart than 60k. There are other important values as well, such as yield strength and elongation. You will find that a 7018 will outperform 6013 on virtually all testing. The interesting thing with this is depending on what steel your welding would likely have the steel fail before the weld, which negates the strength increase of 7018. Now when it comes to weld penetration, that is mechanical strength. A deep penetrated 6010 pass will easily handle more abuse than a poorly penetrated 7018. This has to do with mechanical reasons than the actual tensile strength of the rod alloy. This topic really requires a video topic, so I will cover it asap, because it relates to all welding not just stick 😀
Thanks for the kind comment 😀. I work as a plant operator of a municipal works facility (waste water). Welding is my hobby/side hustle employment. I actually got into it for artwork purposes and stuck with it because you can build cool stuff.
Very interesting results, one Saturday I ran out of 6010 and being a weekend the LWS was closed. I figured I'd just go to a Home Depot and get some. To my surprise they didn't have any, i went to several other big chain stores and it was the same story. They all caried 6011 not 6010! Having never used 6011 but knowing it was supposed to be equivalent I bought some. It ran terrible compared to 6010, I'm not sure if that was because it was a off brand low quality rod or it's just how 6011 is?
So 6011 is pretty much like a 6010 5p+ with the arc force on a welder turned way down. So basically a more liquid, slower freezing puddle. It tends to make better looking welds, but in my testing it produces less penetration. Welding big gaps or holes shut is harder with it over 6010 because a 6011 weld pool is more prone to dripping. I like 6011 for thin stuff, for welding downhill, and for making a cleaner looking weld on non critical stuff. I think the reason most stores sell 6011 only is due to the fact it will run on most welders, vs 6010 tends to run best on DC.
For the steel you’re talking about 3/32 and 1/8th rods will be what you need. When you increase the rod size you can gain some slight penetration, however you also deposit a bigger weld. Size your rod based on how big of a weld you need to put down. 1/8th material doesn’t need a 1/4inch high weld, so using 1/8th rod isn’t much of a benefit. With say 3/8 steel using 3/32 rods doesn’t make sense because of how many passes you will need to make. There is a lot of overlap between rod sizes.
So I believe I did all of those DCEP. I have a couple videos where I test AC as well as DCEN. In simple terms AC limits penetration, it tends to make a slightly wider weld with less penetration. DCEN tends to produce less penetration than DCEP but slightly more than AC.
Greg - just a quick comment. I watch a lot of welding videos, and learn a lot. But I seem to enjoy your no nonsense approach more than most others. I am not a welder by trade, rather a hobby/farm welder. For goodness sake my MIG is a Miller Multimatic 215. How good do you need to be with that great machine? One of my oldest & best friends is a welder fabricator master welder, but not a patient teacher. I NEED to up my skills stick welding. Buddy Jerry: "If'n you can stick weld well you'll be OK with everything else. My stick/TIG machine is an older but quality Thermal Arc 185 STW AC/DC CC with all the settings your thinking. That should be able to do anything I need stick wise right? Not welding pipes or critical structural elements, I just want to become proficient with an easy rod, then build on that base. One that stores well, doesn't need baked, and preferably doesn't spatter too much, if I do my part. EVERYone has their rec. Buddy Jerry's suggests 7018, but what if it sits around in my barn for a year before use? I need another option and respect your common sense approach. Would like to try YOUR rec for upping my stick skills w/o starting with 6010 & giving up. (I know I need to learn it for farm repairs tho) Sorry this went long. Value your opinion budroe.
So here are my thoughts, I hope they help: Two of the hard things when learning to stick weld is understanding what rod you should use and how good do you really need to be. The common rods 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018, 7014, 7018, and 7024 all (to me) serve different purposes. I also like each rod differently. To be fully competent as a stick welder you need to be able to run all of those. However you don’t actually need to be fully “competent” with all of them to build things. If all you do is build simple things with no liability, 6013 and 6011 are perfectly fine. If you need to build stuff that needs strength, or you need to weld higher strength steel, the only rod you should be looking at is 7018. The problem is, 7018 is harder to start and takes more skill to run than 6013. So the question becomes “is it worth it to learn 7018”. My answer to that question is yes it is worth it, and here’s why: I am pretty skilled in stick welding, and I can produce clean defect free welds with 7018 easier than I can with 6013. 6013 is easier to start than 7018, but it has such a tendency to get slag entrapment (and harder to run uphill) that I would take 7018 any day over it. 7018 is easier to clean the slag off of, it makes a smoother/better looking bead, and when welding it has a more defined weld puddle. There is no reason to avoid 7018, think of it as needing “a lot of practice to start the rod”. Is it the best place to start at for welding? Probably not, simply because of frustration. If I ran a welding school I would start everyone on 6013 so they can build confidence fast and get a feeling that they can do it. Once they can run a real solid bead with that I would switch to 7018 and likely never go back to 6013. The problem with you at home doing this is that your frustration level may tip the scale towards so frustrated that you give up. Working 1 on 1 with a expert would make the difficulty more palatable because they can see what you’re doing wrong and work with you. You will spend less time in the “frustrated I don’t know what I am doing stage” trying to teach yourself than working with a expert. In a nutshell what I am saying is that you need to consider your tolerance for being terrible at something and how long you can keep going despite making constant mistakes. If your tolerance is high, run 6013 until you can make a equal width and height bead and then switch to 7018 or 6011/10. If it’s medium to low tolerance start with 6013 and work at mastering it. Other than the easy start I rather run literally any other rod in my opinion. As far as 7018 and rod ovens/storage requirements, I highly suggest you watch this video: th-cam.com/video/wB6NJVGD5Y0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3LGPD1wHVKjra6_1 . The video covers some advanced topics with 7018 but there is a ton of useful information. The truth is 7018 gives the ability to weld high strength steel safely when it’s used out of a sealed pack or rod oven. If you use it out of a open container it will not be smart to weld high strength steel with it. However substituting another rod (like 7014) will not solve the issue because even a 7018 that has been improperly stored will impart less hydrogen into steel than other rods. In even simpler terms the rod oven is to keep moisture out of the rod so it can weld higher strength steel, all other non low hydrogen rods (7014, 6011, 6013, etc) can’t weld high strength steel safely. A improperly stored 7018 is not more likely to have failure than 6013 or 7014. The storage requirements exist to protect what you’re welding, not because the rod needs it to weld properly. Hopefully that makes sense. Just keep the 7018s in a decent plastic container and you’re fine for normal jobs. If you weld on something suspected to be higher strength steel (like a cutting edge of a plow blade) use ones out of a sealed pack. With all of that said you have to understand that stick welding is definitely within your capability of getting good at. You just need to understand it’s going to take time and a lot of pretty lame practice. To get decent at stick is about 1000 to 1200 hours of practice to be good with all rods all positions. To be capable of building stuff with a single particular rod, probably about 200-240 or so hours. That may sound like a lot but if you only weld in the flat position you could probably build simple stuff at around 120-140 hours. After a certain point your practice becomes building things instead of lame practice welds. On a final note I am working on doing a online course with all sorts of projects, tips, and pictures to learn welding. It’s taking longer than expected but I will announce it when it’s ready. It will give the average person a map/guide on how to get good at home. It will also provide structure so everyone knows what they should be doing so they can focus on meeting small goals which will ultimately lead them to the big goal of being competent.
So I have never ran those rods before. They are unclassified (per AWS standards) rods. That doesn’t mean they are bad or won’t do a good job. I have found a ton of non AWS spec rods that are really good. Many run real smooth, produce strong welds, and are easy to use. I tend to use 6010 and 7018 for everything but with oddball jobs (cast iron, spring steel, aluminum, etc) I will break out non classified rods without a doubt. I will have to do a video on some oddball rods soon 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgregLooking forward to that video. This XERGON #178 rod is very unusual, it's hollow, it appears as if they rolled up a sheat metal and formed it into a rod and coated it with flux. There is no information about them online, I was hoping you knew based on that brief description what the rod could be used for. The box I have for the XERGON #106 has date on the box 1975, I was able to find info for it on google it's a fool proof rod that welds itself.
Sir... Can you give an idea of how to evaluate welding rod quality. Especially e6013 compare with one brand to other brand. I'm from India. Here lot of locally produced e6013 manufacturers are there. Price also cheap. In this crowd market.how we select good rod. Can you give an some lecture to me.
I will likely get around to a video on this soon. In the mean time I can tell you that due to your situation you have a bunch of 6013s to pick from. I would find one that is reliably good. What I mean by that is look at the rods, if the flux is damaged in any way or inconsistent, that will only hurt the quality of your welds. When you weld with a particular rod if it runs different rod to rod or start to finish that isn’t a good sign. When I find a rod that I like that’s all I weld with, I don’t switch brands. Doing high quality welds requires eliminating variables as much as possible.
Yes. Sir. Physically we look at quality of welding rod coating and coating strength. And also my interest is there is any mechanical properties changes in brand to brand. Like root penetration and side wall fusion. Like this. Kindly make one video sir. Pls.
Thanks, Greg, and with this episode you bring home the point not to blindly trust 'general recommendation' in your specific application. With a few welds, cuts, and etches, ensures you know what you are doing. There are so many YT-welder channels that simply are basing their conclusion only by looking at the bead - and that is it. But thankfully, we have you to enlightening us with your amazing video content. This is much appreciated, and by the way, outdoor condition slowly turns favorable for welding practices again. Cheers.
Just wait until I get into MiG welding with short arc MiG, some of those tests will be eye opening as far as welds “looking good” compared to what’s under the surface lol
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I look forward to these episodes, and any interesting stuff you will share with us. Cheers.
This was a great video for me as I was just getting to the point where I could wrap my head around the differences and applications of 6010 v 6013 v 7018 when all of a sudden you started talking about a bunch of other rod types and, as a noob to this, I was ready to throw in the towel. Lol With this test of all the ones you have been mentioning things make a lot more sense. Especially the cut and etch that you do to show what's actually going on inside the weld. That must take a lot of time to do but it makes a HUGE difference in actually understanding welding. Many thanks for this great work!!
I am glad the video helped. You are right, it is a ton of information, and never feel bad if you can’t retain/understand it all. I have years of retaining small bits of knowledge, it’s far too much to much to retain in a short time. The key to stick welding is mastering one rod, it doesn’t really matter what it is. When you can run solid passes consistently with one rod, the learning curve with any other is far less.
In all of my stick welding work projects I pretty much either weld with 7018 or 6010 (occasionally 7024). I have no reason to use 6013,6011,7014. For thin material 1/16th 6013s work good, but that’s about it. 6011 and 7014 are more for AC buzz boxes and welders that struggle with 6010 and 7018. Again people have their own personal preferences but considering I could literally build anything from a bridge to a trailer with 7018 and 6010 I don’t need to be good at the other common rods. I don’t stick weld material under 3/16th thick, so the benefits some rods have on thin materials is of no use either. I look at stick as putting down metal on thick material, thin material I tig or MiG.
It doesn’t hurt to be proficient at all common rods, it’s just that once you get good at 7018 and 6010 you look at 7014, 6011, and 6013 as sort of unnecessary outside of sheet metal. The 7014/6011/6013 rods aren’t bad to learn on and definitely can put down good welds, most people simply leave them behind if they run modern DC stick welders. Another way to look at it is what rod to use between 7018/6010 combo vs 6011/6013/7014 combo has more to do with the welder you have and not much to do with what rod is “better” for the situation.
Come on people, click the like button, this is the video I've been waiting for.
Amen, brother!
I did go back and test 7014 again at 130 and 120 amps, that short video will be out tomorrow at 12noon. Those results are definitely interesting 🧐. What do you guys think of the results of the testing in this video?
Thanks for this test and your comments. I am just starting and you have confirmed other suggestions to focus on 6010 and 7018 until I can run them reliably. I agree with other comments that cutting and etching is the only way to really understand what is going on at the root of the beads. Thanks so much for doing this work for our community of welders and wanna be welders!
I have a friend that's a really good welder. He would never teach me anything.
I've learn so much from your videos.
I bought a cheep Chinese stick and MIG and learned flux core from you.
Thank you so much.
Glad to hear 😀. I will be hopping back into flux core next week and mig for a first time on the channel as well.
Once again, you outdid yourself. That is the most helpful stick welding video I've ever seen, bar none. It really helps to see all the more common rods lined up like you did, cut and etched and with appropriate amperage. THANKS!!
No problem 😀. I had a lot of fun making it and I learned some things too, it was a win/win.
Great video! if you had a 110 stick welder that could run 6010 you could probably weld a rusty battleship with it! The penetration is outstanding. Thanks for doing welding videos that nobody else is doing.
Thanks for the kind comment. 90 amps with a 110 welder is possible but is at the limit of a 20amp breaker. The esab rogue 180 will do it. And you’re right, pretty crazy to think a little welder the size of a shoe box could blast halfway through 1/4in plate on 110 volt lol. I am sure it would do the same on 3/8th plate too. Pretty hard to beat that kind of performance with any welding process on 110 volt.
I just bought a older esab i90 off market place for 50 bucks , tig welds as well as my maxstar 210. .... I almost feel like I should bring the guy a case of beer to make it right lol
Thanks for your story on the shock tower. It made me feel better about my lack of fusion welds that just fell apart 😝.
Haha welcome to the club :0
Great information, and I enjoyed your story about welding the shock mount.
Thanks, and I hope you had a good laugh over the story 😅.
Greg, I’ve watched a number of your videos and enjoy them very much with your results. I get the impression that you weld with only a DC welder and not an AC welder. In this particular video, you talk about the lack of penetration with 7014, 6013, 6011, and 7024 welding rod. Although, in this particular video, you have a decent amount of penetration with a 7024 rod and I think that’s because you cranked up the heat. In those mentioned welding rod, those are all AC welding rod in contrast to 6010 and a lot of 7018 which are DCEP. When welding with 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7024 on AC there is good penetration. So with your DC only welder I would crank up the arc force 100% for those particular rods and see how those results are compared the DC only rods. That would be the closest you could get your DC welder to emulate an AC welder. Also, you don’t mention the percentage of iron in 7014, 7024, and 7018. I believe all the welding rod that you used in this test were all 1/8” welding rod. I believe you will find that using 3/32” diameter rod you will find the amperage setting to be the same as 6010, 6013 (maybe), 6011, 1/8” diameter. Since 7014 and 7018 the flux is 30% iron and with 7024 for the flux is a whopping 70%. All that iron is not chipped off with the slag. It is part of the weld. So therefore, backing down to 3/32” on those rod will give better penetration results without changing the welder setting as much. I myself learned on a very old AC welder as a kid while living on a farm in Indiana. My father bought this welder from a very experienced welder who worked in the steel mills of northwest Indiana who did our farm welding. I currently own that welder after I restored it. It is a very early AC 240/440 VAC 175 amp industrial welder Glenn-Roberts brand with a patent from 1939 it also has a couple of very large power factor correction capacitors with very old date codes (1930’s?) on them. More recently, I have added a full-wave rectifier for DC operation for 100% arc force and a large inductor choke for no-arc force DC operation. It is the best AC welder I have used.
Excellent demonstration on various rods. Thanks!
No problem 😀
a very good episode i really like your way off telling your information
Thanks 😀, glad it helped you.
I'm learning to stick weld and your videos are really helping me. Thank you.
No problem, glad the videos are helping you 😀
22:44 6010 … holy 💩! That’s deep!!
Greg, I cant get over how good your instructional videos are. After watching your series on stick welding they will be put away for reference.After watching this one along with your other videos I have come to the conclusion that stick welding is the way to go for almost everything except aluminum.
A lot of videos on subjects other than welding seem to have a “ thanks” button somewhere but yours dont. I think you should be compensated in some manner for all the good work you produce. How do you have time to put these videos out? Are you a full time welder?
I am an octogenarian and a retired physician who finds welding a fun subject.
You are one helluva teacher and have helped me immensely.
Many thanks indeed!
Thanks for the kind words and sorry for the delay in response. Stick welding is indeed very useful and I personally like it far more than wire processes. By skill level and experience I am mostly a tig welder, and it’s what I enjoy the most. I recently switched to doing more or less full time repair/welding, but ultimately I will likely become a college instructor. I am able to make videos and work a normal job because I am used to working 80+ hours a week. Prior to starting my channel I spent a decade restoring an old school I owned, which consumed all my time. I decided to sell it and seek the next adventure in my life, and due to not being able to work on it (for the over 1 year it took to sell) I decided to start a TH-cam channel. So here I am, a year later, still doing the TH-cam thing 😀. I haven’t exactly found what that next thing is in my life, I really want an old building to restore again, but nothing is for sale within a hour of me. Ultimately I just want to share skills with people and help people believe in themselves. The fact I have been able to do that through TH-cam has been a blessing for me 😀
Most admirable. The college instructor position would be a good goal. You certainly have the knack to be a great teacher.
Good luck! Keep up the good humour👍
Fantastic information/comparisons! Thanks for doing such a great job.
You’re welcome 😀. Definitely major differences, it’s fun to look at what’s going on under the surface.
Greg, gotta give you a KUDOS for this vid. Truly surprising outcomes when I actually thought there would be some opposing outcomes from my 'knowledge'. So, I really appreciate what you share, and the commentary that goes with it. I've never been a 6013 fan and when I just started to get back into welding a couple years ago, I consistently failed to get a worthwhile bead out of it. The constant inclusions nearly killed me. However, I digress, I think manufactures certainly make these rods all differently, just like Flux-Cored wires are sometimes WAY better than others (E.G. Blue Demon over HF Vulcan). And to that, I've found most HF 'Vulcan' wire AND rods are consistently poor products in general. My point; could you elaborate on what manufacture of rods you were using please? I'm interested in burning some 7018's after watching this. Thanks again, Cheers!
Thanks for the kind comment 😃. I find that 6013 on ac runs good but when you have a bad day with it you have your work cut out for you lol. Those rods I was running definitely are old, and I probably should buy new ones to try, but the only reason for me have them around is to shoot a video.
For rods the 7018s I was running are esab 7018 prime rods, they come in 4lb dry packs that don’t require a rod oven before use (for code work). I really like the way they run. The 6010 was Lincoln electric 5p red rods, which is a more aggressive 6010 vs the 5p plus. 7014 was esab standard, 6013 Hobart, and 7024 was blue demon. The 7018 primes have been my go to 7018 for a couple years. They are cheaper/more available at local places than Lincoln Excalibur (I like those too) and they come in perfect “job packs” for me. I stopped using a rod oven years ago because I burn through 70-90% of a pack on a job, and just put the few that are left in a communal practice container. When you have 5 or 10 lb packs it’s much harder to get through that many on a job which leaves far more leftovers that technically need to be in a rod oven. They also have solid starts because of a graphite tip, no starting porosity at all.
Love it. Thank you for doing these. I learned for sure. I've burned all those rods but very few 7024 or 7014's. I figured 6011 and 6010 would be very similar although they seem to burn differently. I think 6011 is easier and easier for filling holes and blow outs. Very interesting stuff.
6011 is really good on 1/8th and under. 6010 takes far more work to not blow holes and is far harsher of a arc. A lot of people don’t like 6011 but honestly it has its place.
Thank you for the test!
I wonder whether a smaller diameter rod 3/32" at really high amps at DCEP and steeper angle could do the trick for burning out the root in case of 6013, 6011, 7014, 7018 compared to the 1/8" diameter. Jody of welding tips and tricks also had poor fusion of the root for 6011 especially downhill.
Fantastic video Greg, thank you
Thanks for the kind comment 😀
Greg, I cant get over how good your videos are. After watching your series on stick welding they will be put away for reference.
After watching most of your videos I have come to the conclusion that stick welding is the way to go for almost everything except aluminum. .
A lot of videos on subjects other than welding always have a thanks button somewhere but you dont. I think you should be recompensed for all the good work you produce. How do you have time to put these videos out? Are you a full time welder?
I am an octogenarian and a retired physician who finds welding a fun subject. You are one helluva teacher and have helped me immensely. Many thanks indeed!!
Awesome job on this video. The effort is deeply appreciated. Thank you.
No problem, glad the info helped you out 😀
Very informative. Thank you. I usually run 7014 at 120A. I like how it feels at that setting. I was surprised at the difference between 6010 and 6011. Like you I've considered them interchangeable. Clearly they aren't if strength and penetration are the goal,, which they should be for other than art work. Well done.
Thanks for the kind words and no problem 😀. In some sense it makes sense that 6011 would have less penetration, since it tends to work better on sheet metal. On thicker metal it’s far more significant than I would have thought.
Thank, Greg I do most of my welding with 6011 but seeing the results you got with 6010 at a much lower amperage ,I am going get a box and try it out. Have you tried 6010 in vertical up, vertical down and over head? I would love to hear about your results in these positions and any tips you could give. Thanks again for your videos.
I have done a lot of welding with 6010 in all positions. It runs fine out of position because of how fast the puddle freezes. The main downside to 6010 over 6011 is the arc is more aggressive. The red rod 6010 has a very aggressive arc and will make quick work of 1/8th thick steel when welding uphill (Aka blow holes). The grey rod (5p) 6010 has a softer arc and I think is better suited on thinner material out of position. 6011 to me works far better on thinner material out of position than 6010. The main benefit of 6010 over 6011 is huge penetration increase on 3/16th and thicker steel.
The best tips I can give you is to practice running it out of position. It may sound stupid but 6011 out of position is a great way to practice for 6010 out of position, because it’s more forgiving but runs similar. You must keep a tight arc, which is tough to do when the rod burns off so aggressively. It’s very easy to have the rod burn off to a excessively long arc gap before you know it. 6010 and 6011 need to have more rod pushed in per inch of weld than 7018 so you need to feed the puddle a decent amount. It really helps if you take a step forward, stop & let the rod deposit metal, then take a step ahead. When you step out of the puddle it freezes which gives you the ability to stack “metal on metal”.
Make sure your welder can run 6010 before you buy them, many welders claim to be able to but won’t keep the arc lit.
Awesome video sir, thanks again and keep up the good work!
Thanks 😀. I try to put a lot of effort in so everyone has a lot of stuff to think of/skills in their “tool belt”.
thanks great info , from this seems if all you have is stick on hand and are welding thinner material like 1/8 3/32 7014 would be pretty ideal
I agree, I am going to fool around with the 7014s I have on some 1/8th in and thinner material to see how they do 😀. I even have some 1/16th 7014s that did work really good on thin tube.
With 6013 and 7014 you get easily slag wormholes. Running with higher than recommended amperage but short arc works almost 100%. Also starting a good sized weldpool at the beginning of the weld( slower travelspeed) helps in preventing wormhole inclusions.
i think you need more amps for the 6013. had this problem once and with higher amps it was running fine. i welded 45 years old moist 6013 from a cellar some months ago, no problems.
I have tested varying amperages with rods and beyond a certain point penetration won’t increase because your travel speed must increase. You end up depositing more metal above the plate as the burn off rate increases, but the actual penetration when you’re in the range of normal for the rod doesn’t. Stepping up in rod size generally will increase penetration . That’s definitely something I need to test.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg i was not talking about penetration. 6013 doesnt penetrate much. i was talking about the problem of having holes and the arc wandering from one side to the other. if that happens you need more amps in my experinece for 6013.
Hi Greg, I know you've moved on from stick welding but just a question... Is there a correlation between penetration & tensile strength? As the 6010 seems to give more penetration than both 70,000 tensile strength rods.
Cheers
Great question, and don’t worry I haven’t moved on from stick welding forever 😀. So tensile test is a test where a specimen (basically a specific cylinder of the alloy the filler is made from) is pulled and the max pressure is calculated into a PSI rating. A 70k tensile strength alloy will take far more pressure to pull apart than 60k. There are other important values as well, such as yield strength and elongation. You will find that a 7018 will outperform 6013 on virtually all testing. The interesting thing with this is depending on what steel your welding would likely have the steel fail before the weld, which negates the strength increase of 7018.
Now when it comes to weld penetration, that is mechanical strength. A deep penetrated 6010 pass will easily handle more abuse than a poorly penetrated 7018. This has to do with mechanical reasons than the actual tensile strength of the rod alloy. This topic really requires a video topic, so I will cover it asap, because it relates to all welding not just stick 😀
thanks Greg. informative. great detail. what is your occupation now? welder?
Thanks for the kind comment 😀. I work as a plant operator of a municipal works facility (waste water). Welding is my hobby/side hustle employment. I actually got into it for artwork purposes and stuck with it because you can build cool stuff.
canbage rolls and vodka comrade 😂
Very interesting results, one Saturday I ran out of 6010 and being a weekend the LWS was closed. I figured I'd just go to a Home Depot and get some. To my surprise they didn't have any, i went to several other big chain stores and it was the same story. They all caried 6011 not 6010! Having never used 6011 but knowing it was supposed to be equivalent I bought some. It ran terrible compared to 6010, I'm not sure if that was because it was a off brand low quality rod or it's just how 6011 is?
So 6011 is pretty much like a 6010 5p+ with the arc force on a welder turned way down. So basically a more liquid, slower freezing puddle. It tends to make better looking welds, but in my testing it produces less penetration. Welding big gaps or holes shut is harder with it over 6010 because a 6011 weld pool is more prone to dripping. I like 6011 for thin stuff, for welding downhill, and for making a cleaner looking weld on non critical stuff. I think the reason most stores sell 6011 only is due to the fact it will run on most welders, vs 6010 tends to run best on DC.
The arc force, aka dig, may have skewed the results if you hadn't used any dig. Great video though, I so much appreciate it.
Arc force will help no doubt
How much differance does rod diamiter make with penatration and strenght in a fillet weld 1/8 3/16 1/4 5/16
For the steel you’re talking about 3/32 and 1/8th rods will be what you need. When you increase the rod size you can gain some slight penetration, however you also deposit a bigger weld. Size your rod based on how big of a weld you need to put down. 1/8th material doesn’t need a 1/4inch high weld, so using 1/8th rod isn’t much of a benefit. With say 3/8 steel using 3/32 rods doesn’t make sense because of how many passes you will need to make. There is a lot of overlap between rod sizes.
The one thing you didn't mention is what was done on AC and what was done on DC (+ & -) and how that affects penetration.
So I believe I did all of those DCEP. I have a couple videos where I test AC as well as DCEN. In simple terms AC limits penetration, it tends to make a slightly wider weld with less penetration. DCEN tends to produce less penetration than DCEP but slightly more than AC.
The music reminds me of Trailer Park Boys.......lol
Greg - just a quick comment. I watch a lot of welding videos, and learn a lot. But I seem to enjoy your no nonsense approach more than most others. I am not a welder by trade, rather a hobby/farm welder. For goodness sake my MIG is a Miller Multimatic 215. How good do you need to be with that great machine? One of my oldest & best friends is a welder fabricator master welder, but not a patient teacher. I NEED to up my skills stick welding. Buddy Jerry: "If'n you can stick weld well you'll be OK with everything else. My stick/TIG machine is an older but quality Thermal Arc 185 STW AC/DC CC with all the settings your thinking. That should be able to do anything I need stick wise right? Not welding pipes or critical structural elements, I just want to become proficient with an easy rod, then build on that base. One that stores well, doesn't need baked, and preferably doesn't spatter too much, if I do my part. EVERYone has their rec. Buddy Jerry's suggests 7018, but what if it sits around in my barn for a year before use? I need another option and respect your common sense approach. Would like to try YOUR rec for upping my stick skills w/o starting with 6010 & giving up. (I know I need to learn it for farm repairs tho) Sorry this went long. Value your opinion budroe.
So here are my thoughts, I hope they help:
Two of the hard things when learning to stick weld is understanding what rod you should use and how good do you really need to be. The common rods 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018, 7014, 7018, and 7024 all (to me) serve different purposes. I also like each rod differently. To be fully competent as a stick welder you need to be able to run all of those. However you don’t actually need to be fully “competent” with all of them to build things. If all you do is build simple things with no liability, 6013 and 6011 are perfectly fine. If you need to build stuff that needs strength, or you need to weld higher strength steel, the only rod you should be looking at is 7018. The problem is, 7018 is harder to start and takes more skill to run than 6013. So the question becomes “is it worth it to learn 7018”.
My answer to that question is yes it is worth it, and here’s why: I am pretty skilled in stick welding, and I can produce clean defect free welds with 7018 easier than I can with 6013. 6013 is easier to start than 7018, but it has such a tendency to get slag entrapment (and harder to run uphill) that I would take 7018 any day over it. 7018 is easier to clean the slag off of, it makes a smoother/better looking bead, and when welding it has a more defined weld puddle. There is no reason to avoid 7018, think of it as needing “a lot of practice to start the rod”. Is it the best place to start at for welding? Probably not, simply because of frustration.
If I ran a welding school I would start everyone on 6013 so they can build confidence fast and get a feeling that they can do it. Once they can run a real solid bead with that I would switch to 7018 and likely never go back to 6013. The problem with you at home doing this is that your frustration level may tip the scale towards so frustrated that you give up. Working 1 on 1 with a expert would make the difficulty more palatable because they can see what you’re doing wrong and work with you. You will spend less time in the “frustrated I don’t know what I am doing stage” trying to teach yourself than working with a expert. In a nutshell what I am saying is that you need to consider your tolerance for being terrible at something and how long you can keep going despite making constant mistakes. If your tolerance is high, run 6013 until you can make a equal width and height bead and then switch to 7018 or 6011/10. If it’s medium to low tolerance start with 6013 and work at mastering it. Other than the easy start I rather run literally any other rod in my opinion.
As far as 7018 and rod ovens/storage requirements, I highly suggest you watch this video: th-cam.com/video/wB6NJVGD5Y0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3LGPD1wHVKjra6_1 . The video covers some advanced topics with 7018 but there is a ton of useful information. The truth is 7018 gives the ability to weld high strength steel safely when it’s used out of a sealed pack or rod oven. If you use it out of a open container it will not be smart to weld high strength steel with it. However substituting another rod (like 7014) will not solve the issue because even a 7018 that has been improperly stored will impart less hydrogen into steel than other rods. In even simpler terms the rod oven is to keep moisture out of the rod so it can weld higher strength steel, all other non low hydrogen rods (7014, 6011, 6013, etc) can’t weld high strength steel safely. A improperly stored 7018 is not more likely to have failure than 6013 or 7014. The storage requirements exist to protect what you’re welding, not because the rod needs it to weld properly. Hopefully that makes sense. Just keep the 7018s in a decent plastic container and you’re fine for normal jobs. If you weld on something suspected to be higher strength steel (like a cutting edge of a plow blade) use ones out of a sealed pack.
With all of that said you have to understand that stick welding is definitely within your capability of getting good at. You just need to understand it’s going to take time and a lot of pretty lame practice. To get decent at stick is about 1000 to 1200 hours of practice to be good with all rods all positions. To be capable of building stuff with a single particular rod, probably about 200-240 or so hours. That may sound like a lot but if you only weld in the flat position you could probably build simple stuff at around 120-140 hours. After a certain point your practice becomes building things instead of lame practice welds.
On a final note I am working on doing a online course with all sorts of projects, tips, and pictures to learn welding. It’s taking longer than expected but I will announce it when it’s ready. It will give the average person a map/guide on how to get good at home. It will also provide structure so everyone knows what they should be doing so they can focus on meeting small goals which will ultimately lead them to the big goal of being competent.
Thanks for taking the time with the detailed reply Greg. I appreciate the advice and understand your comments.@@makingmistakeswithgreg
I really like these comparisons, great video! I was wondering if you ever used X-ERGON Dura Weld Gold #106 or the X-ERGON #178 ULTRA-BRADE?
So I have never ran those rods before. They are unclassified (per AWS standards) rods. That doesn’t mean they are bad or won’t do a good job. I have found a ton of non AWS spec rods that are really good. Many run real smooth, produce strong welds, and are easy to use. I tend to use 6010 and 7018 for everything but with oddball jobs (cast iron, spring steel, aluminum, etc) I will break out non classified rods without a doubt. I will have to do a video on some oddball rods soon 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgregLooking forward to that video. This XERGON #178 rod is very unusual, it's hollow, it appears as if they rolled up a sheat metal and formed it into a rod and coated it with flux. There is no information about them online, I was hoping you knew based on that brief description what the rod could be used for. The box I have for the XERGON #106 has date on the box 1975, I was able to find info for it on google it's a fool proof rod that welds itself.
What brand 6010 6011?
7014 brand may also be significant.
I generally buy esab 6011 but I believe I used Hobart in that video.
Sir... Can you give an idea of how to evaluate welding rod quality. Especially e6013 compare with one brand to other brand. I'm from India. Here lot of locally produced e6013 manufacturers are there. Price also cheap. In this crowd market.how we select good rod. Can you give an some lecture to me.
I will likely get around to a video on this soon. In the mean time I can tell you that due to your situation you have a bunch of 6013s to pick from. I would find one that is reliably good. What I mean by that is look at the rods, if the flux is damaged in any way or inconsistent, that will only hurt the quality of your welds. When you weld with a particular rod if it runs different rod to rod or start to finish that isn’t a good sign. When I find a rod that I like that’s all I weld with, I don’t switch brands. Doing high quality welds requires eliminating variables as much as possible.
Yes. Sir. Physically we look at quality of welding rod coating and coating strength. And also my interest is there is any mechanical properties changes in brand to brand. Like root penetration and side wall fusion. Like this. Kindly make one video sir. Pls.
AC or DC???
In that video they were all done DC. On a/c it tends to reduce penetration over DCEP.