In our current system, managers are paid too much, simply by being managers. Skilled workers should be paid well, according to their merit. Same for skilled managers. Skilled managers should be paid more than their unskilled workers. And skilled workers should be paid more than their unskilled managers. To see this played out would actually discourage bad managers from seeking management positions, as their compensation would be lower than that of the people they manage, depriving them of at least one power they currently hold over the skilled worker, which is higher pay. The management 'skill tree' should run 2D parallel to the worker 'skill tree', not 3D over it.
Totally agree. I was a teacher for 17 years. Topnotch the pay scale, the managers were crap at thrir job, they were all teachers who had no training. I refused to be s manager as I knew nothing about managing...
Be a manager but be the best manager. Doing this makes life so much better for employees that suffer under poor management. When you become a manager study, learn and be conscientious. The fact you are here says you can be.
Yeah, this happens all too often in the Civil Service. I was pretty good at my job, and after a few years they made me the deputy manager of this particular department. I went for it as it meant more money, but after a couple of months I had a nervous breakdown with the stress of having to manage *people*, rather than just doing the job. I asked to be demoted back to my old position and all went well after that. I saw this happen many times over.
Yes I was in the Civil Service for all my working life. The only way to get more money was to get promoted. Unfortunately, this lead to a lot of people in jobs that they were totally unsuitable for.
Very brave asking to be demoted. His extended theory, that people are employed until they leave that job through retirement, redundancy or being fired. We have had a couple of people who decided to revert to their previous grade. Mentioned with a sort of stigma - probably envied by some in the same position.
I'd recommend to everyone reading the Peter Principal book. If you wonder where society and those in expertise's default state of mediocrity has come from these days, it's all explained in the book. Nearly 50 years later and it's even more applicable today.
Uh somebody got a new machine for making titles for this little video. Apart from that this sounds like a valid principle and some great observations the good doctor made here. Why oh why is this not better known.
In the book one example is a man that takes the promotion to impress other people like family and wife and does not like the job but can’t ever leave without destroying his “life.”
Lovely to see the man himself. Another great book is Parkinson’s Law. The main law is quite well known but the book is satirically written and draws numerous conclusions upon the causes of poor management. And once again, it was written 60+ years ago
The military used to do this very well (US Army at least). After rising from Private to Private First Class, there was the Specialist rank. From there you would either be an Non-Commissioned officer and help lead troops or you could take the Spec path up to E-8 with pay increases for your mastery of whatever job you held. Now, for enlisted personnel, you either stay as an e-4 or you move up as an NCO forcing great soldiers who are poor leaders to fail in a role they had no choice but to take. I had too many senior NCO's that had 0 talent for personnel management, but were encyclopedia's of knowledge for weapons systems and small unit tactics. The other way around as well. Specialists or E-5s who had excellent people skills and macro knowledge but didnt have the autistic level knowledge the poor leaders had and were either passed up and were stuck in a poor position or they left for greener pastures.
They seldom even teach managers at universities. I have a bachelor and master degrees in management and business administration. These 2 are actually uselles pieces of paper, since 90% of the stuff that is taught at university is plainly wrong and incomplete. Now wonder that the average lifespan of a firm is so low, most of them are managed by incompetent people.
The mechanic example he used is a good way on how to overcome the problem. Said mechanic would have been incompetent when he first started, but over several years would have mastered his craft. The same process applies as a foreman. He has to learn and be taught how to be a foreman. That takes time. So the boss now has to help his new foreman settle into the role over several months, or by giving him the responsibility gradually. The incompetence is with the boss, not the mechanic/foreman.
It would be interesting to know how does a person got his/her mastery ? Probably self determination, tenacity and focus would have been important ingredients ? But it is also important to know if other external elements participated like teachers, trainers, coaches and mentors. Probably a way to overcome that situation is to acquire new skills and try, experiment, monitor and adjust in a calculated conscious way.
This principle makes sense but the level of incompetence in organisations can not be boiled down to just that. I have seen as many incompetent people being promoted as competent ones. It has a lot to do with social factors and dumb lazy people not wanting to have competition that would put pressure on them.
if there are regulations on businesses which require or incentivize HR to increase salaries each year then there is pressure to promote people to positions commensurate with salaries
There is a flaw with this logic. It is a survivorship bias. It isn't that they put you into a role for which you're incompetent... it is that you get promoted no further because of the incompetence in that present level.
Pity the poor sparrows who are dumped on by the crows. Laurence fails to mention the numerous examples of persons being promoted due to favouritism, nepotism and cronyism, and those who are promoted as a precautionary measure to minimise harm to an organisation. Perhaps we could call this precautionary promotion.
I meet such people every day where I work, quite often several times a day.
From 1974 and how accurate this still is!
More accurate than ever, it would seem!
This guy is great. I love listening to him. He’s funny without trying to be funny. 😄
He also makes some great points. 🙂
This is why I don’t want to be a manager. Unfortunately, management is the only way to get decent pay.
@DnB and Psy Production yes but the ratio is 100:1
In our current system, managers are paid too much, simply by being managers. Skilled workers should be paid well, according to their merit. Same for skilled managers. Skilled managers should be paid more than their unskilled workers. And skilled workers should be paid more than their unskilled managers. To see this played out would actually discourage bad managers from seeking management positions, as their compensation would be lower than that of the people they manage, depriving them of at least one power they currently hold over the skilled worker, which is higher pay. The management 'skill tree' should run 2D parallel to the worker 'skill tree', not 3D over it.
Totally agree. I was a teacher for 17 years. Topnotch the pay scale, the managers were crap at thrir job, they were all teachers who had no training. I refused to be s manager as I knew nothing about managing...
@@mourtejin how would the low skilled workers who'd make great managers get promoted?
Be a manager but be the best manager. Doing this makes life so much better for employees that suffer under poor management. When you become a manager study, learn and be conscientious. The fact you are here says you can be.
Yeah, this happens all too often in the Civil Service. I was pretty good at my job, and after a few years they made me the deputy manager of this particular department. I went for it as it meant more money, but after a couple of months I had a nervous breakdown with the stress of having to manage *people*, rather than just doing the job. I asked to be demoted back to my old position and all went well after that. I saw this happen many times over.
It’s sad that being good at your job isn’t reason enough to give you more money. You have to do management, which is an entirely different job.
Yes I was in the Civil Service for all my working life. The only way to get more money was to get promoted. Unfortunately, this lead to a lot of people in jobs that they were totally unsuitable for.
4:55
Very brave asking to be demoted. His extended theory, that people are employed until they leave that job through retirement, redundancy or being fired. We have had a couple of people who decided to revert to their previous grade. Mentioned with a sort of stigma - probably envied by some in the same position.
Dr Laurence J. Peter 1919-1990🙏
50 years later and employers still haven't caught on to this paradox?
Especially government employees!
@@theantiqueactionfigureyou would know, as their senior comedy writ5
Just imagine! This is 50 years ago! Very advanced graphics for its time!
some great Paddy Kingsland music in that. One piece sounds like it's a variation on his "Earthmen" track.
I'd recommend to everyone reading the Peter Principal book. If you wonder where society and those in expertise's default state of mediocrity has come from these days, it's all explained in the book. Nearly 50 years later and it's even more applicable today.
princiPLE. It was even written on the interstitials.
Be careful with things that sound true and explain everything. I'd question the assumption that there wasn't "mediocrity" before.
Does it need a whole book to explain a principle that can be explained in a couple of sentences.
@@vjosullivan you can also explain how to do jaw surgery in a couple of sentences
Lol people getting so triggered
The Peter Principle is the only entrance exam required at Westminster Parliament.
4:55
This is like a Peter Serafinowicz
Sketch,especially the music.
Great stuff.
lol
Goes to show how well realised the satire of Serafinowicz and Time Trumpet etc actually was.
Almost if all his shows contained parody’s.
thoughtful! we discovered the maximum incompetence in USA and UK recently! but you solved it better. (like the vintage synth music + vfx!)
@@jimb12312 Yes, I think that is exactly what makes it vintage. 😉 what definition do you have for that word?
The graphics are amazing.
not really, they were crap when I remember them in the 70s and still crap now
The Peter principle definitely has a place in workplace theories
Uh somebody got a new machine for making titles for this little video.
Apart from that this sounds like a valid principle and some great observations the good doctor made here. Why oh why is this not better known.
The Peter Principle is very well known! (Especially by HR people)
Everything in this is abaolutely Brillient!
In the book one example is a man that takes the promotion to impress other people like family and wife and does not like the job but can’t ever leave without destroying his “life.”
Adore the music and animations in this 🥰
Those animators and syth wizards need a promotion!
I find them silly and annoying. Too loud as well. However, they look dated in a nostalgic way, so that's a plus.
Lovely to see the man himself. Another great book is Parkinson’s Law. The main law is quite well known but the book is satirically written and draws numerous conclusions upon the causes of poor management. And once again, it was written 60+ years ago
Had to look it up: Parkinson’s Law - Originally published: 1942 ... 80 years old! and just as the US joined the war. Even more impressive...
Always has and will be this way.
Still happening with frightening regularity.
Every Single Office in the UK
The military used to do this very well (US Army at least). After rising from Private to Private First Class, there was the Specialist rank. From there you would either be an Non-Commissioned officer and help lead troops or you could take the Spec path up to E-8 with pay increases for your mastery of whatever job you held. Now, for enlisted personnel, you either stay as an e-4 or you move up as an NCO forcing great soldiers who are poor leaders to fail in a role they had no choice but to take. I
had too many senior NCO's that had 0 talent for personnel management, but were encyclopedia's of knowledge for weapons systems and small unit tactics. The other way around as well. Specialists or E-5s who had excellent people skills and macro knowledge but didnt have the autistic level knowledge the poor leaders had and were either passed up and were stuck in a poor position or they left for greener pastures.
I agree that they seldom put people in managerial positions with proper training and preparation
They seldom even teach managers at universities. I have a bachelor and master degrees in management and business administration.
These 2 are actually uselles pieces of paper, since 90% of the stuff that is taught at university is plainly wrong and incomplete.
Now wonder that the average lifespan of a firm is so low, most of them are managed by incompetent people.
This only has 57k views...what a shame.
The 70's electronic music is great 😀
Yeah I kinda wanna know where the person “doing digital” in 1974 ended up 😂
@@KarmasAbutch He might have got a gig opening for Kraftwerk 😆
The mechanic example he used is a good way on how to overcome the problem. Said mechanic would have been incompetent when he first started, but over several years would have mastered his craft. The same process applies as a foreman. He has to learn and be taught how to be a foreman. That takes time. So the boss now has to help his new foreman settle into the role over several months, or by giving him the responsibility gradually. The incompetence is with the boss, not the mechanic/foreman.
What if the boss is also at his own level of incompetence?
It would be interesting to know how does a person got his/her mastery ? Probably self determination, tenacity and focus would have been important ingredients ? But it is also important to know if other external elements participated like teachers, trainers, coaches and mentors. Probably a way to overcome that situation is to acquire new skills and try, experiment, monitor and adjust in a calculated conscious way.
This principle makes sense but the level of incompetence in organisations can not be boiled down to just that. I have seen as many incompetent people being promoted as competent ones. It has a lot to do with social factors and dumb lazy people not wanting to have competition that would put pressure on them.
if there are regulations on businesses which require or incentivize HR to increase salaries each year then there is pressure to promote people to positions commensurate with salaries
6:05 promotion, reward
I've only question my education during my college years, . I drop out most of my subjects 😓
Competency complicates agendas.
Yeah man gimme a badge
I’m having questions in my mind to about everything
He looks like my neighbor my dad made him an omelette I don’t think he was a bad guy but he was a prison officer I think 🤔
The Peter Principle quit working when DEI showed up!
Next, they'll want me to pay the freaking TV license for having watched their 1974 content on TH-cam, posted over 2 years ago. Down with the BBC.
Very strange life
❤️
There is a flaw with this logic. It is a survivorship bias. It isn't that they put you into a role for which you're incompetent... it is that you get promoted no further because of the incompetence in that present level.
That is exactly his point. The way he says it is humorous way…ha..ha.
Applies to politics as well, yeah?
Pity the poor sparrows who are dumped on by the crows. Laurence fails to mention the numerous examples of persons being promoted due to favouritism, nepotism and cronyism, and those who are promoted as a precautionary measure to minimise harm to an organisation. Perhaps we could call this precautionary promotion.
Computer says... bald man sad.
This explains biden and kamala
Trump also!