The Tong Wars of New York's Chinatown (Part 1) | The China History Podcast | Ep. 171
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- In this long awaited and oft requested episode Laszlo explains about the Tong Wars of New York's Chinatown. With the help of Scott Seligman's latest book we go back to late 19th - early 20th century America and focus on New York's Chinatown. These were terribly unpleasant days for most citizens of Chinese ancestry and especially for those immigrants who either had not begun the process or lived in the shadows illegally.
The Chinese Exclusion Laws tarred these citizens like no other immigrant group in US history. The Tong Wars didn't happen because of these laws but they were certainly part of the story. With everything Chinese-Americans have done to make America great over the past century it's interesting to look back at another time when the ordinary law abiding Chinese and the bloodiest tong soldier were equally reviled in society that was loath to accept them.
The book is called "Tong Wars, The Untold Story of Vice, Money and Murder in New York's Chinatown" by Scott D. Seligman.
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Laszlo, You do an invaluable service in disseminating history. Hopefully, we learn from it. We all are humans struggling to survive in this unfair world. Thank you.
Thank you for your kind remarks Ray. Information and knowledge is the key to understanding and acceptance.
You really nailed this. Great job
Excellent history documentary .... Thank you !
I’m onto episode 2. Thanks for the in depth episodes. You are doing awesome
Thanks for giving it a shot. When you finish, and if the series met with your general approval, go check out this latest vid I posted a few hours ago on the Life of the Wild West Madam, Ah Toy th-cam.com/video/NXWJADmF8Ew/w-d-xo.html
Cinemax's 'Warrior' brought me here.
Yeah, I gotta watch that series.....The first time I heard about it I wanted to see it....Alas....too many streaming services already....You may have changed my mind....Looks great. Thanks for coming by to check out my stuff. I hope you find a few other things that interest you. Over 200 episodes from ancient to modern times.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast I just finished reading "Gangs of New York" - thanks much for filling me in on so much more!
Me too
Best ass show just finish season 2 man great show 💯
Phenomenal show. Season 3 is being made now. :3 :3 :3
Thanks for this. 😊
13:30 20 Mott Street! My dad used to run a restaurant called Home Village ar 20 Mott. They have since torn down that building. The new building has been left unfinished for a long time. 16:30 4 Mott Street. My grandpa lived there. He came to NYC in 1917.
Hah! That's wild. One can really do a whole history of NY Chinatown on just tracing the lives of all the occupants at 20 Mott St. going back to Wo Kee's time in the 1870's. Can you imagine all the history on just that one small square of 勿街？
Loving this one thanks for sharing very information blessed love to all knowledge is power hopefully everyone pays attention keep up the good work 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
My deepest thanks and appreciation.
Belíssimo documentário,as thongs Chinesa foram muito importante e muito influência na política Americana...por outro lado explorava a mão de obra Chinesa.
Hello there Laszlo! I've been thoroughly enjoying this series so far, and I'd like to suggest the Hatchet Men: The Story of the Tong Wars in San Francisco. It's an extremely interesting book about the tong wars on the other side of the US and are quite unique from New York in their own right. Cheers!
I got that one noted. SF Chinatown is another topic for the future. This book will come in handy! Thanks Fred.
You have a Dan Carlin style. A engaging confidence in the presentation that show mastery of the subject being discussed.
I'll take that as the ultimate compliment. Dan is the gold standard of history podcasting. Thank you sir.
it looks like u studied that topic , so much indept information , i wouldn t have had any chance to hear about the late 19th century in america. ..
thank you for all that "knowledge" greetings from vienna (austria)
Thanks Mad Max. One one of my dreams is to visit your city. I hope it comes true.
Hi Everyone.....my deepest and sincerest apologies to all for the slight reverb. I hope you won't hold me in too much contempt for this.
Intresting
I think China Mac is a descendent of these tongs as his dad was a Flying Dragon, with links to that triad and it's tong, but he left to join a local group called the Ghost Shadows.
Like Mac, a lot of us southern Chinese are tied these groups because for a long time you couldn't even be here without being connected to a family association. They were the foundation for their existence in many ways.
My folks are connected to Hip Sing and my great uncle was the treasurer for the local merchants association for decades. Growing up, I always just saw him as the kindly old cigar-smoking great uncle in the wheelchair. It wasn't until later that I was informed that he was a huge deal, a real OG. Never knew how much power and respect he had.
Like Will Leung-Richardson said, the Tongs ran Chinatown. They basically were the government as far as residents were concerned. They looked over all sorts of matters and nothing happens in the neighborhood (legal and illegal) without having to go through these associations. Everyone is in some way connected to the Tongs.
Yes, eventho he was kinda sort of forced out because his father became a rat and everyone in the family looked down on them.
Tea Cup Media, will ask you is that good? lol
Interesting
I worked constructing the MTR station in Hong Kong . The tattooed covered steel fixers we were told strictly to stay clear of them as they were exclusively tong members .
got to have legal jobs to wash the illegal money
this is a great channel ! subbed! Can you do a podcast on the indochina / china history ie:VN war
My deepest thanks for your appreciation. I did a 6-Part series on the history of China-Vietnam Relations. You might want to go check that out. th-cam.com/video/me3FXs7h6wU/w-d-xo.html The Vietnam War was also a big part of my 10-Year anniversary special featuring the story of Nixon's 1972 Visit: th-cam.com/video/ytOsuVLP4tU/w-d-xo.html
The Tongs an American Nightmare Movie bought me here.
The 1968 Classic Philip Chan film. I saw it when I was a kid. Thanks for stopping by!🤝
Cool video
Warriors badass show, man I got wait for season 3 hella pissed
You and me both brother!
A team and big trouble in little china brought me here
"China is here Mr burton"
I freaking LOVED Big Trouble in Little China. Kurt Russell at his best! I saw it in the theaters back in 1986 when it came out. Glad you found my channel. Check out the episodes on the Hong Kong Triads and the history of Chinese Martial Arts and Wing Chun style. Over 200 hours worth of Chinese history stuff. I hope you'll look around and find some episodes you like. Thanks for stopping by!
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast it's a classic you cant beat!.
Will do. Love me some history. Its fascinating
Everybody was kung fu fighting
This needs to be a Martin Scorsese movie
I'm gonna get on the phone with Marty and tell him so!
Scorsese lent his name to the production of "Revenge of the Green Dragons", not about Tong wars but about the Queens gang, which turned into a horrible disaster of a movie.
go watch better luck tomorrow.
The movie "Gangs of New York" now playing out by new arrivals from Asia against old Americanized Chinese immigrants such as I. My ancestors from Taishan built Chinatowns in America.
You got that right
I wouldn't doubt it even my Grandfather was born around 1886. He was in the same Tong as Mock Duck. It was the On Leung. I find it very odd that my Grandmother last name was Eng. It was change to Hom so she can be let into America. Bypassing San Francisco were the Hall of Records was destroyed during the Quake of 1906. There was alot of Racketeering in the Chin Family. I know that my Grandfather run Opium Den,Speakeasy and Gambling Halls.
Incredible! That's so interesting that this history touches your life. Thanks for sharing with me and my TH-cam community of listeners.
I like the skyle of the tong gangsters. Sharp looking for sure
How is there not a movie or tv series on this
I been asking the same thing even before I did this episode. Ten times better than all these mafia movies and series. (IMHO)
tons of Hong Kong movies and tv shows.... Though not set in NY - you often hear them discuss goings on in NY and San Fran
Watch warrior it's a series on this exactly
Is there a difference between a Triad and a Tong? I hear those Chinese gang names all the time and I’m curious if there are differences and similarities.
I would say the main difference is that Triads are illegal organizations that engage in organized crime. Tongs are legal entities that are comprised of good and decent law-abiding citizens as well as some criminals that provide both licit and illicit services to the Chinese communities.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Thanks for giving that bit of information.
@@alexs5744 The least I can do. My deep thanks Alex, for checking the vid out.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Your welcome.
😎🤘🏿
I am 32, this is the first time I heard coolie in America. last time I hear that was grandma from chaozhou, she said don't come to America and become a coolie! thank you!
Not a word you hear much anymore.
I am so suddenly interested in this topic that the Tang Dynasty can wait!
Read Scott Seligman's book if you want more details.....The story of the Tong's is a great American immigrant story.
Til this day Mock Duck is still one of the heroes that Chinese kids in the street are looking up to.
I wonder why that is.
OG Thy Lo!
@@soksdoerng174 Is that good?
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast You should try it sometime!
You know a kind old butter knife shared his experiences of the tong wars. But I have to say, my sympathies are solidly with the spoons on that one!!……What??
redone or reuploaded by mistake?
Yeah....deleted the one from a few days ago. Can you believe almost 30,000 downloads and not a single one said I repeated myself around the 25th minute. Are my listeners polite or what? There should only be one now.....the one I uploaded this morning.
Then ill be rude and tell you im very disappointed, for 30 seconds or so I thought it was part 2. If it wasnt for the fact that my mind is fat and lazy after binging through the cultural revolution and the voyages of Zheng He, id have harsh words for you.
Thanks for the great podcast :)
Part 2 is coming sooner than you think....And looks like there'll be a part 3 as well.
Good man.
si bai si shi wu
This video but without reverb would be amazing
You’re kidding me? When does the reverb start? Shoot! Can’t believe I didn’t catch that.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Its only this part 0:00 to 40:00
@@BlastBinary I guess I have to do it all over and delete this one. Can't believe 46,000 listeners later I learn about this screw-up. What a colossal blunder. Thanks, Blast Binary......I'm in your debt.
How an ethnic community survive or even grow when there is an exclusion act against you? If no new or young people coming in then no business.
There were all kinds of ways to sneak into the country.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Is that what happened though? Massive amounts of smuggling, and illegal migration occurring much like today with Mexico/Central America.
Ever heard of "paper sons"
@@georgieman1910 each man must be claiming like 20 sons then
@@MbisonBalrog
I don't know about 20 sons for each man...but 20 available slots would have certainly been plausible. Paper son/daughter slots were traded like currency. Now add the great SF Fire of 1906 and with all records destroyed, anybody can claim anything. Where there's a will, there's a way....
where are these tongs when we need them?
Isn't there some sort of Bat Signal for them?
when it comes to kung fu i wonder how realistic was the fighting? LOL i assume most chinese tong dudes knew martial arts to fight back, or is the TV show warrior just exaggerating
I'm sure, like all these fight scenes, it was very tightly choreographed. And with Brett Chan as the choreographer, it looked damn good.
7:24 didnt age well
Indeed it did not.
" Exclusion Law ". And anyone will criticize the Chinese for retaliation in that way 🤬🤬🤬
Hoodvlogs brought me here
Wow, great channel. Subscribed. I'm in LA too.
Sad irony Chinese and other East Asian people are still kicked around in the USA 🇺🇸.
Even my own wife has experienced it this past year.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast that’s terrible I’m glad she’s ok.
Yeah, America is peaceful with no gangs, no Al Pacino n the others. No bootlegging, no mafia... Lmao...
Who said it was?
Much is made of the Chinese Exclusion laws and restrictions against and exploitation of Chinese immigrants in the 19th century, but our society was much more open and welcoming to Chinese here in The USA than China's was to westerners in China. Foreigners in China were forbidden to travel outside of designated trade districts and several wars(SEE; The Boxer Wars) were fought due to said racist, xenophobic Chinese restrictions against westerners. The Chinese Exclusion Act was in response to Chinese restrictions against westerners in China.
Two sides to every story.
I see your point.
You mad, bro?
Maybe that's because westerners sought to take over and control China. Also China is not the one who pretended to be an immigrants paradise. There is no "pretend" statute of liberty in China saying "give me your poor and your tired". Context is key. The US was wide open land. China was and is far more crowded... Not even close.
@Unknown Unknown westerners were not poor immigrants into China. They sought to dominate. Not even remotely close. The Japanese straight out refused to even deal with westerners at all - until the gunboat diplomacy of Commodore Perry. Explain then why there was no "Japanese Exclusion Act". Well I can tell you it's because there weren't Japanese low wage workers brought to the US.
I don't seem to recall an official Western Exclusion Act in China, and in fact, jewish refugees fleeing from the Holocaust fled to Shanghai as there was no visa system back in the day. There were already foreigners, mostly missionaries living in China in the 1900s. In America, the Chinese were discriminated against, so much so that they had to open their own laundromats and restaurants because no one would employ them. Can you imagine if there were Buddhist and Taoist temples in the US at that time? The Boxers Rebellion was the best thing to happen to the foreign powers as they couldn't wait to dig their claws and take chunks of China. I don't recall when China tried to invade America and then took a port for 100 years?
The real American gangstas thugs
OG's fo sho
Looks Cambodian
Mos def ain't a northerner....
Actually looks Chinese, remember there's many Chinese tribes, not are all Hans.
@@soksdoerng174 southern Hans