when talking to my non furry friends about furries i realized that the fandom's fox stereotype and non furries idea of a "furry" stereotype are practically the same (at least from the people I've talked to) and i think this makes sense because they are the most popular fursona by far and thus the "furry fox" stereotype is more of just the "online furry" stereotype maybe?
for me, when i hear about fox sonas, first thing that comes to my mind are all of the irl fox memes of them making several screeching or squeaking sounds
Nah when I hear fox furry my mind instantly goes to a furry version of that spider man meme with them all pointing at each other with fox head PNGs stickered on top haha
Am a fox furry, been around real foxes. Nothing is new. They live in a matriarchal society meaning females are top in hiarchy. Being submissive is a way to get along and play. That may be why foxes may be perceived as being femboyish other than generally having slender bodies and silky fur.
Furry fox too. Not feminine at all here. 100% will trick you. 100% alpha male too. But i respec the hell outta you, my friend. I am the incarnation of fox stereotype. And, like real foxes, as a tod, i only get hard for vixens. Sorry to break it to you, but the only canid who engage in homo stuff is the jackal
Can’t I be cute without being called "submissive", a "femboy" or a "bottom" geez how can you even call me a bottom, I’m not even in a relationship nor looking for one !! I’ve never even worn thigh highs
@@aydenator27 It depends on your definition. If by relationships you mean any relationship between two human beings at all, including friendships, one-night stands, etc. Then yes it has something to do with relationships. But if you're talking only romantic relationships, which is what the OP is most likely meaning, then no, it has nothing to do with solely romantic relationships, because sex =/= romance
@@Gustav_Kuriga i guess i can see what you mean, but your statement of “it has nothing to do with relationships” is an exaggeration because it has something to do with SOME relationships. I guess you meant to say romantic ones? But simply the word “relationship” applies to a lot of things.
@aydenator2770 apply that logic to the original comment and it makes zero sense. Are you saying that person has no family or friends? Clearly the only way it makes sense is if they meant romantic relationships, as I said. My point is that sexual relationships (which is where being a "bottom" is relevant) and romantic relationships aren't the same thing. They made an assumption that is too narrow, while yours is too broad.
One interesting thing I notice is that the sub femboy fox fursona stereotype is very specifically a MALE fox fursona stereotype. The female fox fursona stereotype still seems to be very much be the sly trickster stereotype
Having become a furry AFTER becoming very interested in foxes IRL and in mainstream media, then creating a fursona, then interacting with the general furry community, the general fox furry stereotypes are very annoying. Furries always assume nearly the exact opposite of what me and my character are really like. I've considered making a new main character, but I identify much to closely to real life foxes to be comfortable with that change (well, except maybe for dragons, but they come with their own problematic furry stereotypes too).
6:09: "One of the big stereotypes I've seen a lot of furries associate with fox fursonas is that they're bottoms." Me, having defaulted to a fox fursona because I'm still new to furry spaces and I'm just basic: 👁👄👁
@@kuroiphox989It’s both. Huskies were joked about as having tails that were, uh, begging for something. But I’ve spoken to many older furries who have told me that the fox stereotype is an old fandom joke going wayyy back.
Back in the day, the only generalization I heard was "All Fox Fursonas are gay." Sure it's not true that all are gay, but it did seem that many of them were. Also, you need to watch Robin hood.
Yeah, but now all gays are femboys ;P Okay, I’m being facetious, but I think those stereotypes are less two different ones and more a continuity of the same one. Fox furries were always joked about as being the gay ones, and now I think you’re just seeing that the common archetype of what’s considered “desirable gay male furry” has shifted so incredibly hard in a fem direction. So then this “foxes are gay” stereotype becomes “foxes are femboys.” I think this probably comes from foxes being a “scrawnier” and softer canine than others, hunting in a way that lines up less with stereotypical masculinity, and being somewhat associated with beauty and femininity in some cultures. So if you’re male and select a fox to relate to-rather than something seen as more masculine like a wolf-people will have their assumptions based on that.
I chose my fursona based off the general idea of foxes and kitsunes. Keepers of forbiden knowledge, sly chaotic neutral/evil dominating forces. Rather than the common fox furry that is ridiculously submissive.
In my experience (SaveAFox) depicts them as always running, doing a specific Fox chuckle, and enjoying frozen treats (pupsicles) in the summer heat. Actual Foxes I mean, not our interpretation.
Foxes are small, light, airy, slender, appear to be wearing gloves and pantyhose's with their leg patterns, have a long tail they use to hide their faces when shy or sheepish, and make high pitched squealing and feminine screaming sounds... Yeah, you see why they're femboys if not just feminine?
The stereotype has to do with how the perceived attributes of foxes translate to human gender roles. Avoiding conflict, being small, being cheeky, mischivious, devious and sneaky. That's not what we call "masculine" attributes. With those "feminine" traits, they will therefore take up the more "feminine" role within a gay relationship: the bottom. These feminine traits are seen as weak in men, but they are a source of power for women. There is a reason another word for an incredibly attractive woman is *vixen*. I don't necessarily agree with those stereotypes. But they are extremely prevalent and will probably stick around for a while longer.
i want more masculine foxes, cuz we need more of them than feminine ones. Like, yes I understand, there's mainly female kitsune goddesses in asian culture, BUT WE NEED MALE FOXES!!
I'm not a furry myself but because of friends and other connections I am sometimes exposed to a bunch of furry art and frankly I have a hard time imagining a foxboy to be portrait as swole as they often make wolves and the like
Oh I've seen some foxes that are manly and strong and ones that strive to get what they want and trick people. And I find it a bit more interesting than the more feminine ones. I do love femboys cause they're adorable but something about them manly foxes just makes me so interested. Like when they're sophisticated and know what they're doing and they'll never let anyone mess with them. I think my favorites are the foxes that are dominant with their choices and behavior. Not in relation to who they're dating, but their personality aspects. I've made a few fox characters and I try to differentiate between the feminine ones who wanna wear a dress and play video games, and the ones who will be passively mean to you so you do what they want. Cause it's a nice contrast. They can be loving, but they also have a goal in mind and that just identifies with me so perfectly. Sorry if this was long lol but I just wanted to give my thoughts on foxes. Cause so many people see them as a helpless toy and it's annoying cause most actual foxes are the complete opposite.
It is interesting to me how much the fandom fixates upon the sexually receiving half of the fandom. I've understood that 'bottoms', receivers, before the 00s, were mostly bunnies before it shifted to foxes. Since then, foxes have dominated the receiver end of the furry LGBTQIA+ section of furry. There was a short shift to otters that I remember, back in 2019, but fandom foxes have been predominantly 'bottoms'. On the giving 'top' half there seems to be more variety, and that's why there's no way to pin down (pun not intended?) a stereotypical masculine furry species.
I feel like there's a bit of a "self-fulfilling prophecy" angle to these stereotypes that has created this mass impetus behind the foxes as bottoms thing. I remember the bunnies thing as well, and I think them and foxes have been picked up in this way largely from their physique. Like with the real world gay community, there are stereotypes based on the physique of people. From bears to twinks to dad bods, each one has its own stereotype on the top/bottom debate, and the rise of femboys through the 2010s created yet another one of these. Foxes and bunnies both are physically small and thin, and often considered more cute than cool, and you add in stuff like the moment in time during the cat memes period where foxes had a similar meme status as silly animals, the period where the stereotype in the fandom was that all foxes are gay, etc, and I think femboys/bottoms gravitated towards bunnies and then foxes, which led to the stereotype, which then caused even more people to gravitate towards them as they joined the fandom, and now there's this momentum to the stereotype that just keeps it going all on its own.
Here's my take on it Furries are typically made up by men (not always obviously) Foxes are a smaller animal, with a lot of feminine traits - they're seen as pretty, graceful, etc, especially with the long black fur patterns on the legs Because of this, men using a feminine, small animal as their fursona may conjure up ideas of femboys or being submissive. There are a lot of big animals like bears, wolves, dogs, etc that have a more stereotypically masculine appearance that when you choose that animal, people assume it's for that reason Also thigh highs match the fur pattern As for media, foxes aren't usually made to represent a person or a human the way furries do, usually an idea or a metaphor. I grew up Japanese so I can't speak on Western ideas of foxes, but I'm pretty sure across many cultures they are tricksters and cunning because they are scavenger animals with sounds that are eerily similar to humans. So when popular media uses foxes, those thoughts are applied instead more than how furries think of the physical nature-based facts about animals and how it applies to the person using them
I'm a 40 year old non-binary (afab), and my fursona is a 2.5 ft tall fennec fox named Kitsi who is aro-ace, pronouns are she/her, she's a klepto, and her one true love is pie.
Oh, wow. I'm wearing my fox ears and tail while watching this. X3 As a fox furry, I can confirm the stereotype has some merit to it. As they say "stereotypes exist for a reason", and I happen to embody a number of them. It took me a long time to accept that, actually. Took me down a path of self discovery and acceptance, though~ I agonized for years, getting by with an Arcanine fursona while I pondered "what species fits me the best?" Was deep in denial about the fox thing for a long time, due to a mental hangup over needing a "unique fursona", mixed with how foxes are so common within the fandom. How they're considered "unoriginal". Yet my heart and gut screamed "you're a fox!" for years. It would take the encouragement of a friend to help me accept that and decide to express that side of myself. Help me realize that I'm definitely a "genuine" fox and not one of those "newbies who picked a fox for their first 'sona". Been so much happier after I switched to a foxy 'sona. Haven't looked back since~ Also, I do act like the species of my 'sona, but there's a different reason for that in my case. (Look up "therian" ;3)
5:11 I have… I was both doing the stalking and being stalked… shortly before the foxes started yelling at me, and holy crap… their yell is terrifying when they’re close by and you’re not expecting it.
I haven’t even started the video, and I’m looking at the description. My fursona is a fox, because I like foxes. I myself am a femboy irl. My sona reflects that, and is startlingly close to looking like the one in the thumbnail. Ig this video is for me lmao
@@_shy_fox_ If people think ur gay because you have a fox fursona I think it's more of the fact that ur a furry, not so much that ur sona is a fox. The furry community is famous for being 70% LGBT+ people compared to the national 10% of the population. Meaning that statisticly, if you're a furry there's a solid 70% chance ur queer. Obviously not all furries are queer (doing the math that's 30% of them), but most are. I doubt it has anything to do with you liking foxes. Also for the record, even though the stereotype is that fox sonas are fembois, you don't have to be gay to be a femboi. You can be completely straight and still think wearing a skirt is fun
I always thought the animal association was similar to how LGBT categorize body types and behaviors but with a more artistic touch. I think "fox being bottoms" thing may be because some foxes in media are depicted as females or have feminine traits. In the fandom i think that stereotype is dismissive of Feminine tops and power bottoms tbh.
It makes me very confused every time people say foxes are the most common fursona when every third person is a wolf. Edit: someone in a comment said wolves are the most common to non-furries so idk anymore. I engage w the fandom superficially, mostly, so maybe that's it. I have no clue.
Well Bootles my fursona base is a fox. And as a technical fox furry i started as a femboy fox and as the years progressed my facination with mythologies has bled into my fox fursona. I id as a bi male with male prounouns but as a furry i id as a female which helped shaped my fursona. Now my fursona is a vampiric fea kitsune whose personality is kind loving and maternal. Most of my online friends call me Aunty Skye or Aunty Leah And my fursonas full name is Leah Arrean Primavera. In my opinion ( how i percieved my self as a fox furry) the whole femboy bottom sub thing was comes probably from how most (myself) was coming to terms their sexuality and their peers in the LGBTQ+ community have taken them under their wing and experimenting some may have stayed as such because that was their prefrence others like me grew out of it and found our own way. Ya know?
It may be hard to make it on a TH-cam video due to its policies, but it would be really interesting diving into the overlap between the gay community and furry community, since I do see a lot of overlap on social media, and makes sense since there's a good chunk of furries that are LGBT men, how do these communities interact between each other, and how they blend since a lot of people kinda belong to both. Also I didn't know this stereotype was a thing, so great vid!
I love the differences between the media, the animal themselves, and then fandom's perception. It's so cool to see the many unique perspectives. My sona is a raccoon and we have a stigma in the fandom similar to foxes in general media (that we're always up to something, or we're tricksters) and as someone who is not about all that, I found it absolutely amazing that media from outside the fandom portrayed a raccoon exactly how i like to carry my fursona.
Good video, Beta! As the owner of a Fox Fursona, an Arabian Red Fox named Abid, (not a Fennec) I always saw him as a the one to break these stereotypes mentioned. Sure, he started out rather unfit and immature sometimes in his story, but I see him as what I can do if I want to improve my life; such as exercising and learning more as my character did. Basically, Abid is what a 50s and 60s movie protagonist is from a less fit former self.
Being from the UK, where we have large urban fox populations, it always sounds strange to me when I hear people say they've never seen a fox. I see them pretty frequently. You can never get close to them.
Other furries choosing their fursona: "I like this because it represents my personality" "I like this animal" "I'm going to put a bunch of detail and research into this" Me: *It came to me in a dream*
I wonder if this is why I've had several friends say I don't really seem like a fox? I never understood that, as I built my sona's personality around the cunning and mischief associated with foxes in fairytales. I am also thoroughly surprised that, as a furry, you haven't seen Robin Hood. Can recommend. Cute, fun, and has some really catchy tunes.
Weird. Just realized how few of my friends have fox fursonas, and of those who do, they're either tops or switches. Considering I've been in the fandom for 20 years, that's really interesting to me.
In the '00 the Fox stereotype was already started to shift from sly trickster into all are gay, then around the '10 the present day stereotypes started to spread with more common art depictem like that and i think Taurinfox animation contributing to it too
There is a weird hierarchy when it comes to wolf, fox, bunny. The wolf will always be a top and the bunny will always be a bottom (unless their partner is of the same species). So when it's a fox with a wolf, the fox bottoms (DreamWorks' Bad Guys). But when the fox is with a bunny, it will top (Disney's Zootopia). Foxes are the ultimate Verses.
When I was in my femboy phase (I'm now in my legally and hormonally female phase) I wanted to make a fox fursona purely because they are femboy bottoms. I think that reinforcement of the stereotype is also contributing to the situation
Years ago when I found my way to my first Furry cons I was actually told to my face that my cursing couldn't be a Fox because I'm not a gay male. 😹 Joke for you: What do you call two Fox furries sitting quietly in a room together? A conspiracy.
As someone who was sort of kind of apart of the fandom for about 5 or so years and only making a sona this year, I very much noticed the stereotype that came to foxes, and it's part of why I avoided that species when I actually came to making my own sona. Because I myself don't identify with that personality type and didn't want people to make that assumption. It's not really exclusive to foxes either, some other species have their own stereotypes around them, and they tend to be the more common species like dogs, wolves, cats etc. Thankfully I never much of an interest in the common species so I did end up avoiding alot of the popular stereotypes.
Am just a mouse and I follow most all of the stereotypes ^w^ (I think we fall into the same stereotypes as foxes a lot of the time with the added bonus of "the smol")
been a furry for 3-4 years (don't know why i always want to point that out) and recently started feeling my fursona is a fox/dragon and I'm definitely not gay, I say this because I know that fox fursonas get lumped in is "most likely to be ___" but that only thing about me that might be close to the stereotype is that I'm not sporty, very horny (not sure if this counts), overly emotional, having anxiety, and I'll do the stereotype "gay hand thing" without thinking, and generally lazy, other than that...I still see myself as straight
It seems to me that foxes' fursons are more introverted and wolves' extroverted. As for femboys, there are just as many of them in each type of fursona, but as foxes are the most, they are most often seen there.
*confused highpotched screeching in a pattern resembling a mix of english and german words of how it pitches up/down and screech gaps *then steals your chimken nugget
idk I think furries kinda slot the trickster/sly aura from folklore onto Coyote sonas, simply cause foxes already took the brunt of being the "you're a bottom' punching bag. I feel like both of them can be seen as tricksters but I can definitely see why people slot coyotes into the trickster role
Between foxes and wolves, I avoided them like the plague when I first joined the fandom. Funny because my mom continues to think a fox fits me. Nowadays I don’t particularly care. I like wolves more than foxes, but they are cute even if they don’t think they are.
My take on fox furries is that they’re kind of the vanilla of fursona species. It’s a very common pick that doesn’t really say anything about your character; their prevalence has even flattened out that slyness. I speak as part of the problem. While I have no proper fox OCs, I’ve realized I tend to default to foxes a lot when spinning the furry roulette making one offs. Same with cats, another basic choice that I do have OCs for. Think it says a lot that I keep defaulting to these, that they’ve ended up as the species I pick to just slap randoms together.
I feel like part of the stereotype of foxes being bottoms or submissive femboys also comes from the fact that the two default fursonas are foxes and wolves. The common traits wolves have been given are of being very manly and dominant, like a stereotypical top. So, since one of the two has the stereotype of being the top, it then requires the other to be the exact opposite. Sort of like the yin to the yang
curious if these stereotypes apply to just red fox fursonas or if this also applies to those who use fennec foxes or arctic foxes or some other sort of fox
My fursona is a fox, am I a bottom or a femboy, no, do I like thigh highs, and feminine clothing, yes. If anything my fursona wearing that stuff is actually me being rebellious against how society see me. I look like a generic man, stoic in the face, and masculine, my fursona is me embracing my femininity. His lore on the other hand, my guy is a street fighter, because lots of dudes feel emasculated when the feminine dude in a skirt pile drives them into oblivion
I picked my fursona out when I was like 12 and ended up growing into the stereotypes but if I had to guess as to why they fit so many people, those who choose a fox as their fursona are probably like me thinking "dog but elegant and pretty" which also conicidentally is how I feel about my gender :P
i think one of the reasons fox fursonas have weird stereotypes because people have weird thoughts about characters like robin hood and nick wilde. they are just attracted to it so they want it lol. also calling women "foxes" has been a thing in adult 18+ media for a while so it could have gone over from that too
a little off topic but I think we should tone down with the stereotypes according to our irl appearance, I've met people irl and have told me 'you know you don't look like your species you're more like a [random species that is not my fursona]'
Fennec sona here. The stereotypes do not apply in my case, but then again, my interactions within the fandom have been limited, so I don't think I've been a force in contradiction to said stereotypes. On second thought, are there any kind of stereotypes that are distinct between specific fox breeds?
What are you guys talking about? This is CLEARLY the Bootles channel!
@@BetaEtaDelota Vulpines and vixens and paws, oh my. ;)
Okay I believe you
(Your nails look amazing btw!)
Oh for sure
It took me YEARS of watching the two channels to realize that they were both run by the same person... I still have no clue how I missed that.
Yo beta Dimitar video bout wolves and huskies what media adsodiate trades with thos4 animals and how it is in the furry Fandom ttjankd
when talking to my non furry friends about furries i realized that the fandom's fox stereotype and non furries idea of a "furry" stereotype are practically the same (at least from the people I've talked to) and i think this makes sense because they are the most popular fursona by far and thus the "furry fox" stereotype is more of just the "online furry" stereotype maybe?
What are you doing here purple?
Graaa
@@Lore_SearcherPurple is a certified Beta enjoyer!
The funny thing is, multiple studies have found that *Wolves* are actually the most popular/common species in the Furry Community.
5th
Me? Mischief, sly and bottom?
Nah, I'm just a loaf.
Literally tho 😂
Loaf moment 🍞🦊
@@ndrew_B This is a Certified Loaf Moment.
Loaf❤❤❤
loaf
for me, when i hear about fox sonas, first thing that comes to my mind are all of the irl fox memes of them making several screeching or squeaking sounds
This is very accurate to us foxes.
Nah when I hear fox furry my mind instantly goes to a furry version of that spider man meme with them all pointing at each other with fox head PNGs stickered on top haha
NGL, my first reaction is femboys. :P
Am a fox furry, been around real foxes. Nothing is new. They live in a matriarchal society meaning females are top in hiarchy. Being submissive is a way to get along and play. That may be why foxes may be perceived as being femboyish other than generally having slender bodies and silky fur.
Hm. Intruiging.
Furry fox too. Not feminine at all here. 100% will trick you. 100% alpha male too. But i respec the hell outta you, my friend. I am the incarnation of fox stereotype. And, like real foxes, as a tod, i only get hard for vixens. Sorry to break it to you, but the only canid who engage in homo stuff is the jackal
So male foxes are like male hyenas, right ?
And us vixens are aggressively horny.😂
huh that makes sense
Disney’s Robin Hood corrupted my soul.
FR😭
Krystal Fox. >w
Watching that 7 times a week when I was in 3 rd grade changes a person
@@MotionlessKnight yeah... I really liked using that staff in that game.
@@wrongname2702 Mhm. She was like my ultimate awakening though cause she was hot and didn't leave much to the imagination. Lol
Can’t I be cute without being called "submissive", a "femboy" or a "bottom" geez how can you even call me a bottom, I’m not even in a relationship nor looking for one !!
I’ve never even worn thigh highs
bottom has nothing to do with relationships?
@@Gustav_Kurigahow does it not have anything to do with relationships?
@@aydenator27 It depends on your definition. If by relationships you mean any relationship between two human beings at all, including friendships, one-night stands, etc. Then yes it has something to do with relationships. But if you're talking only romantic relationships, which is what the OP is most likely meaning, then no, it has nothing to do with solely romantic relationships, because sex =/= romance
@@Gustav_Kuriga i guess i can see what you mean, but your statement of “it has nothing to do with relationships” is an exaggeration because it has something to do with SOME relationships.
I guess you meant to say romantic ones? But simply the word “relationship” applies to a lot of things.
@aydenator2770 apply that logic to the original comment and it makes zero sense. Are you saying that person has no family or friends? Clearly the only way it makes sense is if they meant romantic relationships, as I said. My point is that sexual relationships (which is where being a "bottom" is relevant) and romantic relationships aren't the same thing. They made an assumption that is too narrow, while yours is too broad.
Real foxes are described as: Dog hardware - Cat software. They have the moodiness and weirdness of cats, but dogs.
I hate that description. There is SO MUCH incorrect about it.
@@Gustav_Kurigareal
And then there is the most chaotic, evil and powerful version, the fennec foxes.
With love to all the foxes
One interesting thing I notice is that the sub femboy fox fursona stereotype is very specifically a MALE fox fursona stereotype. The female fox fursona stereotype still seems to be very much be the sly trickster stereotype
dem vixens are fine
Having become a furry AFTER becoming very interested in foxes IRL and in mainstream media, then creating a fursona, then interacting with the general furry community, the general fox furry stereotypes are very annoying. Furries always assume nearly the exact opposite of what me and my character are really like. I've considered making a new main character, but I identify much to closely to real life foxes to be comfortable with that change (well, except maybe for dragons, but they come with their own problematic furry stereotypes too).
Stay yourself and stay a fox! The more foxes that break the stereotypical mold, the more that stereotype will diminish.
Dom foxes are real and valid. Subvert the stereotype |3
As a submissive fennec (technically a fox), dom foxes are great. We need more of you.
I feel too close to foxes to change aswel. It feels generic but... FOX!
@@rodylermglez I'm a dom fox and my bf is a sub wolf. We make a fun suversion of the expectations when people see our sona's together
As someone who's bwen dissociating into a subby gay femboy lately, I clicked on the thumbnail bc I thought "Oh wait that's like me"
6:09: "One of the big stereotypes I've seen a lot of furries associate with fox fursonas is that they're bottoms."
Me, having defaulted to a fox fursona because I'm still new to furry spaces and I'm just basic: 👁👄👁
Exactlyyy
Yah... I heard the joke that foxes are 🍆 warmers for over 15 years now, so it's probably been a thing for longer than that :P
Really? Cause I remember that being like, husky fursonas at one point.
@@kuroiphox989me too
@@kuroiphox989It’s both. Huskies were joked about as having tails that were, uh, begging for something. But I’ve spoken to many older furries who have told me that the fox stereotype is an old fandom joke going wayyy back.
Back in the day, the only generalization I heard was "All Fox Fursonas are gay." Sure it's not true that all are gay, but it did seem that many of them were.
Also, you need to watch Robin hood.
Yeah, but now all gays are femboys ;P Okay, I’m being facetious, but I think those stereotypes are less two different ones and more a continuity of the same one. Fox furries were always joked about as being the gay ones, and now I think you’re just seeing that the common archetype of what’s considered “desirable gay male furry” has shifted so incredibly hard in a fem direction. So then this “foxes are gay” stereotype becomes “foxes are femboys.” I think this probably comes from foxes being a “scrawnier” and softer canine than others, hunting in a way that lines up less with stereotypical masculinity, and being somewhat associated with beauty and femininity in some cultures. So if you’re male and select a fox to relate to-rather than something seen as more masculine like a wolf-people will have their assumptions based on that.
Don't be offended by me.
I love foxes, I have a fox fursona, but I'm not gay!
@@_shy_fox_ Don't worry, we are just sharing what 'stereotypes' we've heard about. No judgements.
I recently went with a fox sona a artic fox to be specific as my second. And I'm female and bisexual
Fuck Robin Hood, Br'er Fox was always superior
I chose my fursona based off the general idea of foxes and kitsunes. Keepers of forbiden knowledge, sly chaotic neutral/evil dominating forces. Rather than the common fox furry that is ridiculously submissive.
I just see them as creatures as a small colourful wolf with a cat soundboard, and a race car engine and softwhere built in
Foxes are dog hardware, running on cat software... ;-)
No no, you got it wrong. Dog hardware, running on cat software with a dolphin soundboard
@@kuroiphox989 exactly!
There's a food disposal unit in there too, for urban foxes anyway.
2:00 ah yes, Robin hood from Zootopia
In my experience (SaveAFox) depicts them as always running, doing a specific Fox chuckle, and enjoying frozen treats (pupsicles) in the summer heat.
Actual Foxes I mean, not our interpretation.
The Carfox is definitely the biggest trickster of all the foxes
Foxes are small, light, airy, slender, appear to be wearing gloves and pantyhose's with their leg patterns, have a long tail they use to hide their faces when shy or sheepish, and make high pitched squealing and feminine screaming sounds...
Yeah, you see why they're femboys if not just feminine?
The stereotype has to do with how the perceived attributes of foxes translate to human gender roles. Avoiding conflict, being small, being cheeky, mischivious, devious and sneaky. That's not what we call "masculine" attributes. With those "feminine" traits, they will therefore take up the more "feminine" role within a gay relationship: the bottom.
These feminine traits are seen as weak in men, but they are a source of power for women. There is a reason another word for an incredibly attractive woman is *vixen*.
I don't necessarily agree with those stereotypes. But they are extremely prevalent and will probably stick around for a while longer.
hot women are called "foxy" for a reason
i want more masculine foxes, cuz we need more of them than feminine ones. Like, yes I understand, there's mainly female kitsune goddesses in asian culture, BUT WE NEED MALE FOXES!!
I mean... I would but i don't exactly consider myself a furry, i just support the fandom... But I'm still considering...
I'm not a furry myself but because of friends and other connections I am sometimes exposed to a bunch of furry art and frankly I have a hard time imagining a foxboy to be portrait as swole as they often make wolves and the like
Oh I've seen some foxes that are manly and strong and ones that strive to get what they want and trick people. And I find it a bit more interesting than the more feminine ones. I do love femboys cause they're adorable but something about them manly foxes just makes me so interested. Like when they're sophisticated and know what they're doing and they'll never let anyone mess with them. I think my favorites are the foxes that are dominant with their choices and behavior. Not in relation to who they're dating, but their personality aspects. I've made a few fox characters and I try to differentiate between the feminine ones who wanna wear a dress and play video games, and the ones who will be passively mean to you so you do what they want. Cause it's a nice contrast. They can be loving, but they also have a goal in mind and that just identifies with me so perfectly. Sorry if this was long lol but I just wanted to give my thoughts on foxes. Cause so many people see them as a helpless toy and it's annoying cause most actual foxes are the complete opposite.
If foxes were just a female only species, they wouldn't be the butt of all jokes. They'd just have to find a coyote or wolf bf to reproduce
Mine fought a third world war against the Russians. Does that count?
Foxes are great :3
It is interesting to me how much the fandom fixates upon the sexually receiving half of the fandom. I've understood that 'bottoms', receivers, before the 00s, were mostly bunnies before it shifted to foxes. Since then, foxes have dominated the receiver end of the furry LGBTQIA+ section of furry. There was a short shift to otters that I remember, back in 2019, but fandom foxes have been predominantly 'bottoms'. On the giving 'top' half there seems to be more variety, and that's why there's no way to pin down (pun not intended?) a stereotypical masculine furry species.
I feel like there's a bit of a "self-fulfilling prophecy" angle to these stereotypes that has created this mass impetus behind the foxes as bottoms thing. I remember the bunnies thing as well, and I think them and foxes have been picked up in this way largely from their physique. Like with the real world gay community, there are stereotypes based on the physique of people. From bears to twinks to dad bods, each one has its own stereotype on the top/bottom debate, and the rise of femboys through the 2010s created yet another one of these. Foxes and bunnies both are physically small and thin, and often considered more cute than cool, and you add in stuff like the moment in time during the cat memes period where foxes had a similar meme status as silly animals, the period where the stereotype in the fandom was that all foxes are gay, etc, and I think femboys/bottoms gravitated towards bunnies and then foxes, which led to the stereotype, which then caused even more people to gravitate towards them as they joined the fandom, and now there's this momentum to the stereotype that just keeps it going all on its own.
As a wolf that's been railed by foxes and otters, et al...they're not exclusively sub but there is something to it.
Here's my take on it
Furries are typically made up by men (not always obviously)
Foxes are a smaller animal, with a lot of feminine traits - they're seen as pretty, graceful, etc, especially with the long black fur patterns on the legs
Because of this, men using a feminine, small animal as their fursona may conjure up ideas of femboys or being submissive. There are a lot of big animals like bears, wolves, dogs, etc that have a more stereotypically masculine appearance that when you choose that animal, people assume it's for that reason
Also thigh highs match the fur pattern
As for media, foxes aren't usually made to represent a person or a human the way furries do, usually an idea or a metaphor. I grew up Japanese so I can't speak on Western ideas of foxes, but I'm pretty sure across many cultures they are tricksters and cunning because they are scavenger animals with sounds that are eerily similar to humans. So when popular media uses foxes, those thoughts are applied instead more than how furries think of the physical nature-based facts about animals and how it applies to the person using them
Wolves and dogs also get the femboy treatment, but usually more fluffy. Bears, have that bear stereotype. There's also otters and red pandas.
@Jo-Heike I think red pandas can fall into the marking thing
Dogs and wolves I assume because puppyplay is so common too
I like how Beta is acting a lot more like the random guy on a camera and not the guy that knows every single word to say.
I'm a 40 year old non-binary (afab), and my fursona is a 2.5 ft tall fennec fox named Kitsi who is aro-ace, pronouns are she/her, she's a klepto, and her one true love is pie.
yes we care about that very much, thank you for telling us
omg that broke my brain ROBIN HOOD FROM ZOOTOPIA
Oh, wow. I'm wearing my fox ears and tail while watching this. X3 As a fox furry, I can confirm the stereotype has some merit to it. As they say "stereotypes exist for a reason", and I happen to embody a number of them. It took me a long time to accept that, actually. Took me down a path of self discovery and acceptance, though~
I agonized for years, getting by with an Arcanine fursona while I pondered "what species fits me the best?" Was deep in denial about the fox thing for a long time, due to a mental hangup over needing a "unique fursona", mixed with how foxes are so common within the fandom. How they're considered
"unoriginal". Yet my heart and gut screamed "you're a fox!" for years. It would take the encouragement of a friend to help me accept that and decide to express that side of myself. Help me realize that I'm definitely a "genuine" fox and not one of those "newbies who picked a fox for their first 'sona". Been so much happier after I switched to a foxy 'sona. Haven't looked back since~
Also, I do act like the species of my 'sona, but there's a different reason for that in my case. (Look up "therian" ;3)
i still dont understand therians tbh
@@StrandedOnDuna Seeking answers?
5:11 I have… I was both doing the stalking and being stalked… shortly before the foxes started yelling at me, and holy crap… their yell is terrifying when they’re close by and you’re not expecting it.
I haven’t even started the video, and I’m looking at the description. My fursona is a fox, because I like foxes. I myself am a femboy irl. My sona reflects that, and is startlingly close to looking like the one in the thumbnail. Ig this video is for me lmao
I love foxes, but I'm not gay.
I don't like someone thinking I'm gay just because, I like foxes and I have a fox fursona.
@@_shy_fox_ If people think ur gay because you have a fox fursona I think it's more of the fact that ur a furry, not so much that ur sona is a fox. The furry community is famous for being 70% LGBT+ people compared to the national 10% of the population. Meaning that statisticly, if you're a furry there's a solid 70% chance ur queer. Obviously not all furries are queer (doing the math that's 30% of them), but most are.
I doubt it has anything to do with you liking foxes.
Also for the record, even though the stereotype is that fox sonas are fembois, you don't have to be gay to be a femboi. You can be completely straight and still think wearing a skirt is fun
I just like foxes as animals. I always have since I was a kid, and my first few fursonas were foxes. Also, Nick Wild corrupted my soul lmao.
I always thought the animal association was similar to how LGBT categorize body types and behaviors but with a more artistic touch. I think "fox being bottoms" thing may be because some foxes in media are depicted as females or have feminine traits. In the fandom i think that stereotype is dismissive of Feminine tops and power bottoms tbh.
As a flying fox, I've always wondered if anyone groups us in with foxes.
I feel attacked. Please don’t stop. 👀👉👈
It makes me very confused every time people say foxes are the most common fursona when every third person is a wolf.
Edit: someone in a comment said wolves are the most common to non-furries so idk anymore. I engage w the fandom superficially, mostly, so maybe that's it. I have no clue.
Well Bootles my fursona base is a fox. And as a technical fox furry i started as a femboy fox and as the years progressed my facination with mythologies has bled into my fox fursona. I id as a bi male with male prounouns but as a furry i id as a female which helped shaped my fursona. Now my fursona is a vampiric fea kitsune whose personality is kind loving and maternal. Most of my online friends call me Aunty Skye or Aunty Leah
And my fursonas full name is Leah Arrean Primavera. In my opinion ( how i percieved my self as a fox furry) the whole femboy bottom sub thing was comes probably from how most (myself) was coming to terms their sexuality and their peers in the LGBTQ+ community have taken them under their wing and experimenting some may have stayed as such because that was their prefrence others like me grew out of it and found our own way. Ya know?
Me, who's fursona is a snow leopard, before Tailung was a thing: Unique!
After Tailung: WHERE DID ALL THESE CLONES COME FROM?!?!?!?
It may be hard to make it on a TH-cam video due to its policies, but it would be really interesting diving into the overlap between the gay community and furry community, since I do see a lot of overlap on social media, and makes sense since there's a good chunk of furries that are LGBT men, how do these communities interact between each other, and how they blend since a lot of people kinda belong to both. Also I didn't know this stereotype was a thing, so great vid!
I am fox and people are jealous that we have no limits and easily loved more then other people lol
Foxy fluffs are EVERYTHING... and that's what makes them confusing. ;)
2000s: huskies are the new foxes
2010s: yeens are the new huskies
2020s: what are the new yeens?
It's a stereotype because this is the huge majority of the furry fandom. Almost 90% of the fursonas you see always have pointed ears.
I love the differences between the media, the animal themselves, and then fandom's perception. It's so cool to see the many unique perspectives. My sona is a raccoon and we have a stigma in the fandom similar to foxes in general media (that we're always up to something, or we're tricksters) and as someone who is not about all that, I found it absolutely amazing that media from outside the fandom portrayed a raccoon exactly how i like to carry my fursona.
Good video, Beta! As the owner of a Fox Fursona, an Arabian Red Fox named Abid, (not a Fennec) I always saw him as a the one to break these stereotypes mentioned. Sure, he started out rather unfit and immature sometimes in his story, but I see him as what I can do if I want to improve my life; such as exercising and learning more as my character did.
Basically, Abid is what a 50s and 60s movie protagonist is from a less fit former self.
They're all bottom! Lol
I prefer to be the fox that just likes to cuddle with friends.
Foxes are bottoms.
Reynard the Fox is turning in his grave so fast it's registering as a seismic event.
Being from the UK, where we have large urban fox populations, it always sounds strange to me when I hear people say they've never seen a fox. I see them pretty frequently. You can never get close to them.
The Robin Hood character... they chose a fox because that's just how Robin Hood, as a character in general, is. Sly, conniving, clever, confident.
My bf has a fox sona and he gets called bottom a bit too often it kinda sours the mood when ppl do make said joke tbh he is anything but that
We got furry racism (speciesism?) before GTA 6
Other furries choosing their fursona:
"I like this because it represents my personality"
"I like this animal"
"I'm going to put a bunch of detail and research into this"
Me: *It came to me in a dream*
I wonder if this is why I've had several friends say I don't really seem like a fox? I never understood that, as I built my sona's personality around the cunning and mischief associated with foxes in fairytales. I am also thoroughly surprised that, as a furry, you haven't seen Robin Hood. Can recommend. Cute, fun, and has some really catchy tunes.
I can only ever see foxes through the lens of Vixen from Fox and the Hound 😳 and I'm not even a feral.
2:00 robin hood from … zootopia?
Did they just say they've never really seen a fox IRL!? Im suddenly very appreciative of my lil red scavengers everywhere.
Wolf, cat, dragon, & fox furries come off as creatively bankrupt, bog.standard, bare minimum, vanilla, milktoast to me.
Weird. Just realized how few of my friends have fox fursonas, and of those who do, they're either tops or switches.
Considering I've been in the fandom for 20 years, that's really interesting to me.
of course I learn about this weeks after finishing my sona, maybe gray foxes are spared form this stereotype 😭😭
In the '00 the Fox stereotype was already started to shift from sly trickster into all are gay, then around the '10 the present day stereotypes started to spread with more common art depictem like that and i think Taurinfox animation contributing to it too
I have 2 fox sonas but im the stereotypical mischievous trickster gremlin chaotic energy one
There is a weird hierarchy when it comes to wolf, fox, bunny.
The wolf will always be a top and the bunny will always be a bottom (unless their partner is of the same species).
So when it's a fox with a wolf, the fox bottoms (DreamWorks' Bad Guys).
But when the fox is with a bunny, it will top (Disney's Zootopia).
Foxes are the ultimate Verses.
Felines, canines and vulpines seem like the three most popular.
I think the fox bottom stereotype is closely tied (pun intended) to the wolf top stereotype.
Im friends with the person that owns that fox fursona in the thumbnail
When I was in my femboy phase (I'm now in my legally and hormonally female phase) I wanted to make a fox fursona purely because they are femboy bottoms. I think that reinforcement of the stereotype is also contributing to the situation
1:58 "robinhood from zootopia"
Years ago when I found my way to my first Furry cons I was actually told to my face that my cursing couldn't be a Fox because I'm not a gay male. 😹
Joke for you: What do you call two Fox furries sitting quietly in a room together? A conspiracy.
It seems to me that by having a furry fursuit, fursone then I am considered gay.
Other guys try to talk to me and are surprised that I'm straight.
im a fox and i am submissive gay femboy bottom... but its not beacuse im a fox!
maybe its a fox curse.....
I thought the stereotypical ones were the methed-up dogs
AKA blue dogs
which are common
How can I confuse you? I'm an innocent fox! Foxes are innocent animals :3
As someone who was sort of kind of apart of the fandom for about 5 or so years and only making a sona this year, I very much noticed the stereotype that came to foxes, and it's part of why I avoided that species when I actually came to making my own sona. Because I myself don't identify with that personality type and didn't want people to make that assumption.
It's not really exclusive to foxes either, some other species have their own stereotypes around them, and they tend to be the more common species like dogs, wolves, cats etc. Thankfully I never much of an interest in the common species so I did end up avoiding alot of the popular stereotypes.
Am just a mouse and I follow most all of the stereotypes ^w^
(I think we fall into the same stereotypes as foxes a lot of the time with the added bonus of "the smol")
been a furry for 3-4 years (don't know why i always want to point that out) and recently started feeling my fursona is a fox/dragon and I'm definitely not gay, I say this because I know that fox fursonas get lumped in is "most likely to be ___" but that only thing about me that might be close to the stereotype is that I'm not sporty, very horny (not sure if this counts), overly emotional, having anxiety, and I'll do the stereotype "gay hand thing" without thinking, and generally lazy, other than that...I still see myself as straight
It seems to me that foxes' fursons are more introverted and wolves' extroverted.
As for femboys, there are just as many of them in each type of fursona, but as foxes are the most, they are most often seen there.
*confused highpotched screeching in a pattern resembling a mix of english and german words of how it pitches up/down and screech gaps
*then steals your chimken nugget
idk I think furries kinda slot the trickster/sly aura from folklore onto Coyote sonas, simply cause foxes already took the brunt of being the "you're a bottom' punching bag. I feel like both of them can be seen as tricksters but I can definitely see why people slot coyotes into the trickster role
huh guess that explains why they are at the top of "fursonas that confuse me" list
yes i have a list of fursonas that confuse me
Man I'm a hybrid...
Prolly I still count
Between foxes and wolves, I avoided them like the plague when I first joined the fandom. Funny because my mom continues to think a fox fits me.
Nowadays I don’t particularly care. I like wolves more than foxes, but they are cute even if they don’t think they are.
My take on fox furries is that they’re kind of the vanilla of fursona species. It’s a very common pick that doesn’t really say anything about your character; their prevalence has even flattened out that slyness.
I speak as part of the problem. While I have no proper fox OCs, I’ve realized I tend to default to foxes a lot when spinning the furry roulette making one offs. Same with cats, another basic choice that I do have OCs for. Think it says a lot that I keep defaulting to these, that they’ve ended up as the species I pick to just slap randoms together.
I feel like part of the stereotype of foxes being bottoms or submissive femboys also comes from the fact that the two default fursonas are foxes and wolves. The common traits wolves have been given are of being very manly and dominant, like a stereotypical top. So, since one of the two has the stereotype of being the top, it then requires the other to be the exact opposite. Sort of like the yin to the yang
As a foxxo fur myself, i dont know. XD foxes are the fandom's biggest mystery and confusing aspect of the fandom.
1:58 bro really said "Robin hood from zootopia" 💀💀💀
curious if these stereotypes apply to just red fox fursonas or if this also applies to those who use fennec foxes or arctic foxes or some other sort of fox
Foxes are everyone’s second ‘sona.
I'm gonna go make a story where a fox fursona based off of base media fox stereotypes meets a fox fursona based off of furry community stereotypes. XD
I feel called out 😭😭😭🙏
You should watch the Disney movie Robin Hood. It’s a classic, and probably one of the reasons people got started with the furry fandom as a kid.
My fursona is a fox, am I a bottom or a femboy, no, do I like thigh highs, and feminine clothing, yes. If anything my fursona wearing that stuff is actually me being rebellious against how society see me. I look like a generic man, stoic in the face, and masculine, my fursona is me embracing my femininity. His lore on the other hand, my guy is a street fighter, because lots of dudes feel emasculated when the feminine dude in a skirt pile drives them into oblivion
Yea it’s kinda like Raymond and the maid dress
I picked my fursona out when I was like 12 and ended up growing into the stereotypes but if I had to guess as to why they fit so many people, those who choose a fox as their fursona are probably like me thinking "dog but elegant and pretty" which also conicidentally is how I feel about my gender :P
i think one of the reasons fox fursonas have weird stereotypes because people have weird thoughts about characters like robin hood and nick wilde. they are just attracted to it so they want it lol. also calling women "foxes" has been a thing in adult 18+ media for a while so it could have gone over from that too
a little off topic but I think we should tone down with the stereotypes according to our irl appearance, I've met people irl and have told me 'you know you don't look like your species you're more like a [random species that is not my fursona]'
It’s no stereotype, Foxes are just yummy delicious fluffy things or something! I like em’
4:15 ..... he's a furry who hasn't seen Robin Hood? o_O
Ikr, Robin Hood should also be in the Zootopia 2 movie.
Yes, we exist. stop asking /j
@@WarrezTheWolfFuck Robin Hood, Br'er Fox from Splash Mountain would be cooler
Yeah, we can be quite confusing sometimes...
Fennec sona here. The stereotypes do not apply in my case, but then again, my interactions within the fandom have been limited, so I don't think I've been a force in contradiction to said stereotypes.
On second thought, are there any kind of stereotypes that are distinct between specific fox breeds?