1:32:50 Funny how HFM used The Witcher and Mandalorian as examples of shows using stoic and heroic men. Two shows that dragged their male leads further and further into the backseats in order to push their female leads and support roles to the forefront.
@@mr_jyggalag Don't exactly blame him for that. ROP is such an insult on every level to Tolkien's life of work that there is no word in any of Tolkien's languages to describe it. Legit brain rot occurs watching that series. I'm still not sure I've recovered all the IQ points I lost.
Platoon just released the first part of his Dune review and in that review he covers history, the history of Whigism and it's connections in popular scifi, the subversion of whog thought present in Dune, and he's just getting warmed up...😮
"Why can't they honestly have these beliefs you disagree with?" I love this line because it shows a base level of respect towards people that you don't necessarily agree with. "They are obviously lying" isn't a helpful rebuttal and all it does is lionizes your audience.
It's weird in current year that it's so easy for lefties to slander an individual with little to no evidence, and essentially no repercussions towards them for potentially unfair defamation of character, (at least in a moral sense, not a legal one) but when you generalize a very large group, like accusing Hollywood writers of being kinda lefty, for example, then those same lefties crawl out of the walls to accuse YOU of being unfairly prejudiced. And they don't even blink when you bring it up.
I mean... the entire basic concept of the anti SJW movement is riling up people against an alleged political conspiracy to ruin IPs with wokeness and that all the big studios are in cahoots to change culture and that having modern sensibilities about minorities in your writing somehow ruins it. It seems a bit hypocritical to then complain about others making bad faith assumptions about them. That doesn't make it okay, but I feel like both sides need to think about how they view their "opposition".
I think it's worth noting that most of the anti-woke critics were making fun of Desa for constantly bragging about being the first female dwarf, only to cite her as one of the few characters they enjoyed after watching the series. It's almost like most of them will respond positively to a good performance even after they've been primed to dislike someone.
Hello Future Me is trying to reconcile the fact that his analysis of Rings of Power lines up with someone who holds different political beliefs from himself. And the only way he can do that is attributing malice or nefarious intent to the other person.
Yes but the reason that he's doing it is because everyone that criticised the show (or other shows/movies from mainstream companies) was immediatly labeled as a nazi, ist and phobe and he is trying his hardest to signal to his woke-minded peers that he is still an ally despite criticising the show.
@alex9x9 to be fair, some of those peeps are definitely either ists or feeding into ists to make a buck. Heelonbabyface, notably, being the "fucking pronouns" guy. I wouldnt trust that man an inch when it cones to media critique
HelloFutureMe's claims can easily be disproven by house of the dragon. It was viewed the same way as rings of power until it came out and the "woke bros" reviewed it fairly on its own merrits.
I'm pretty sure he mentioned HOTD in the video, and his argument was "Well, that was good, and these people only go for the low-hanging fruit, so of course they didn't criticize it." Because, of course, it couldn't be that these people are just being honest... No, they must be intentionally picking badly written targets to shield themselves from criticism! He even claims they use a motte and bailey argument where they'll claim "agenda", but when their claims are confronted they quickly abandon them, because they're "indefensible", and hide behind "Woah! I'm just critiquing bad writing!"
@@deamongimli I often hear the argument that because HotD was so popular, that's why critics switched the narrative and they also apply this argument to something like Arcane where it's too popular to criticize. However this does not account for Drinker praising something like Pray or Andor, media that most of his audience probably doesn't like/have any interest in seeing.
@@shnobby3547 I understand the thought process, and it's probably true in some cases, but it's also a dangerous one as it just lets him dismiss anything that might disprove his argument.
@@HenryLeslieGrahamso many people take him seriously, too. which is just so funny to watch. that's like reading an article by the Babylon Bee or the Onion and then analyzing+criticizing everything about it as if it's a legit news story and not at all sarcastic, satirical, and comedic hahah.
I get why, but I am sad about it. Not everyone wants to watch hour long plot breakdowns of movies and TV shows. I personally love it, but I have never been able to get anyone else to watch one of his videos. Most people just watch movies/ TV shows, and think they are good or bad. They don't want to know why they are good or bad. Unfortunately.
Agree. Breakdown wise he is the best. The hours and work that he does is insane. My favorite for sure. I do like Platoon as well. Mauler does some good ones too.
One more thing, Gary was the first to have already given up the show months before not only for interviews, statements, press releases... But he had in his hands actual Leaks from someone inside the production, they already knew how everything would go and if you are one who knows what's going to happen in that bin of a show you can't help but mock it in advance
Even without that, we can make certain assumptions that will usually be correct. Not always but when you look at the state of Hollywood and then a trailer that has all the same woke tropes, it’s not crazy to make an assumption. You’ll be wrong occasionally like with house of the dragon or d&d but you’ll have one hell of a high batting average.
@@joshcowart2446 Especially when it's the focus; if your advertising is "Lots of black people!" then I assume your actual product sucks, because otherwise you'd tell me something substantial about it, get normal, non-race-obsessed people excited.
I don't have a problem with people having assumptions regardless of how negative or positive if they're willing to claim their assumptions were incorrect after watching the show when applicable. I don't have a problem with Gary's attitude even without that explanation. If trailers/promotional material really put you off, that's not inherently wrong.
The original video by HFM has been edited to remove the hour plus long section of the video. Shame that he thought so little of his own principles that he couldn't leave them up in face of overwhelming disapproval.
@@ОлегВысоков-л8й Maybe but I would suggest that the way to do that is to mention your opinion has changed but leave the old one up as an honest admission that you did think that at one point. Trying to cover it up will always seem kinda scummy to me even if I know the intent behind it was genuine.
I used to openly publish ideas that I now find reprehensible and initially I decided to leave that part of me online and made an apology and explanation of why my ideas changed. However, people kept little linking to the ideas I no longer held, so they were still active in the world. I decided to remove all of the things I had published so they couldn’t be linked back to, but I kept and still keep my apology and explanation up. It’s possible that he removed parts of his video in order reduce the number of people who would be able to use those parts out of context after his admission that he misread some people.
@snakesnoteyes So, removing it did nothing but make you seem dishonest? Should of left them up, honest actors will accept it's the past, dishonest ones will just get it from the way back machine.
Scared to be lumped in with the wrong people who agree with him the show is bad, but also too scared to look into it closely because he may find out it's not that simple. Yeah, I think I know where his "anxiety" comes from.
To me Arcane proves HFM's overall point wrong. Arcane has received near-universal praise, including from "woke bros" like Critical Drinker, and yet on paper Arcane is extremely "woke." The two lead characters are female who are extremely proficient in combat, one is a butch with a female love interest who beats up men more than twice her size, and the other is a terrorist with one of most complex and sympathetic portrayals of childhood trauma and mental illness I've ever seen. And that's to say nothing of the heavy themes of social inequality and critiques of capitalism in the show. Yet I have never seen a detailed review of Arcane lambasting it for being woke. On the contrary, Vi is often contrasted with Galadriel in ROP for how to write a "girl boss" female protagonist well. Which indicates that what critics like Critical Drinker actually have a problem with is hamfisted political messaging that takes priority over good storytelling, like in Rings of Power, rather than certain politics per-se.
People who hate on the "Woke bros" wave that off as them "Saying that they like Arcane to prove that they aren't a bigot" which is basically a kafka trap.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Yeah, if those critics were actually the straw men HFM describes, they absolutely would have dragged Arcane for being woke, you can’t convince me otherwise.
Haven't they been almost silent on Arcane though? I honestly have never heard a word from the Quartering, Despot of Antrim, Disparu or Heeves or Shadiversity on this show, not to mention full fledged reviews. I may have missed it, sure, but I get the impression they mostly ignore good stuff that doesn't fit their narrative.
@katarinakremberg1319 Most of them rarely cover animation, but I think I recall Critical Drinker doing a video on it and I think Shad reacted to an episode a few years ago. Also since when was the Quartering a film critic? He tends to just cover pop culture news
Goodness sake! I like Hello Future Me, but with his attitude, I don’t know how he will respond to women reviewers like the Authentic Observer who called out Galadriel the same way the men did! He’ll be flabbergasted!
While I understand the fact that the anti woke media review ytbers can get annoying. You shouldn't just blanket describe people as that thing because they criticised a piece of media, and his doing so says a lot about his integrity, lack of research, and care for fairness and accuracy.
Despot and Drinker aren't even anti woke unless that stuff affects the quality of work/is clearly the motivation behind some terrible plot points or characterisation. If woke writers were just better writers it wouldn't even come up in their videos
It says a lot about how puritanical of a social bubble he's in too, to find the reeing about these things enough to sour the waters totally. I hate woke shit but I used to forgive HFMs woke takes because I liked his content.
I don't want to come off as saying he should stay in his lane. But he's a writer and world builder first, making a hit piece about other creators takes time, and a lot of research because if you get it wrong, you are not simply criticizing their creation, but them, their world view and people who agree with them.
I’m not surprised in the least. I used to watch his channel, back before he needed to be seen in every shot, there was a point where you could tell his popularity was getting to him. His channel started gravitating to focusing on him and his thoughts were instead of just talking about the facts of writing, he needed to add his views. Eventually the videos became more and more about him just staring into a camera and talking. Once he started using bait and switch videos and shifting the focus to him, I left the channel.
Yeah, whenever someone starts talking more and more about themselves instead of the subject people click the video for, that's usually a warning sign that the person's ego has grown bloated and incapable of discussing anything through an objective lens. It's a sign of a narcissist who thinks he's above it all, no matter how hard he tries to appear to be reasonable or kind.
It's sad to see isn't it, I had a similar experience with Jim Stirling years ago. Makes you wonder if they ever believed in the stuff they'd say back before they went crazy.
Weirdly DJPeachCobbler did that transition better, he went from a slightly more nuanced video game reviewer with his little pie-man persona, to a crazy eyed dude looking into your soul while eating chalk and going on unhinged hour long rants on Roman and Aztec history that are only interrupted by schizo-tangents.
I honestly believe that this should be a main channel video, since anyone who DOES visit the channel because of HFM can be able to see your response and set the record straight.
Update: within 48 hours of this video going live, Hello Future Me has entirely cut the "Wokebros" section of his video. While Hello Future Me has not made a community post or other official statement regarding the change and/or addressing/apologizing to any of the creators he mentioned, he has replied in the comment section of the video; to paraphrase his replies, "I removed that section. While I think the topic is important, it didn't fit this video, the section as a whole had some problems, and it was causing me a lot of anxiety."
Y'know what irritates me the most about people like him? People like him who's morals are so weak that they can't ever stand by their own words. Even if the majority disagree with him, at the very least stand your ground if that's what you truly believe in. This action alone says how sleazy and disingenuous he really is, more than his words ever could. What happened to all that confidence? He seemed pretty damn sure he was right about everything, even to insulting people right out the gate, only to quietly sweep it under the rug. Absolutely pathetic.
The crazy thing is that literally every person on his list loved Arcane, and the vast majority (but, to be fair, not all) of them loved the Spider-verse movies.
@Opener73 implying Spider-Verse isn't good is actually a scientific sign of neurodegeneritive illness, please seek a doctor you may only have so long to live.
I thought that the "cannon event" premise of the second Spider-verse movie was stupid. Multiverse stuff as a whole is kinda watering down all comic book movies. Animation is cool tho
Freakin coward he talked trash about them when they call him out he just delete it, and the "woke bros" will have an argument or just want to have a conservation with him if he just asks them. But he choose the coward way.
I agree. I haven’t subscribed to him for a while now I thought he was still doing his writing tips video with Avatar being 80% of reference for writers but I guess not lol.
Hello Future Me is lying about galadriel taking part in battles. She never did. She was very tall in stature, and that is all Tolkien meant by "Amazon". She was a magic user and had no need to battle physically.
Agreed. From what I understood by the quotes he brought on screen, I got the impression she could've (and apparently did) took the role as a commander. In the sense of a tactician; having an intimate understanding of warfare, making plans, giving orders and etc. But not an on-the-field frontline fighter - She didn't need to. It also stated she "brought down the walls" - Which honestly sounds perfectly on track with her magical powers. Just like The Witch King basically "brought down the gates" during the siege of Minas Tirith; since he cast spells on the siege ram and weakened the gates with his powers. It's not like he walked over and just went all "Hulk Smash" on the darn thing with his mace.
Would have to look up the exact reference if you're interested, but there is one instance in the Silmarillion. During the first Kinslaying by Fëanor, Galadriel is said to have "taken part against him", fighting to defend her kin. But that's all I can think of.
It wouldn't be out of character either. There is no such thing as a "magic user" in Tolkien's universe, like character classes in an rpg, it's fine for a millennia old elf to have learned to fight at some point during the multiple world wars she was engaged in.
@@Arphemius I'm actually fine with that too, but Tolkien clearly did emphasize things BESIDES martial ability, yet that's most of what she does in RoP. It'd be like, I dunno, Obi Wan, a master lightsaber duelist, mostly using a gun for no reason--he CAN use a gun, it's not impossible, but it's really not who he is.
@@billjacobs521 It's not quite equivalent, because there is no such thing as a magic combatant in LOTR. If they're fighting, they will always use weapons, usually swords. Gandalf has Glamdring, Sauron fights in a duel with Elendil and Gil-Galad,... If Galadriel were fighting in a wizard's duel, like Gandalf and Saruman, then maybe she would abstain form using a weapon, but against orcs? She also isn't yet as powerful and accomplished, she doesn't have her own kingdom, she is not yet a ringbearer and she's a few thousand years younger. All in all, it's difficult to find a rational reason why she shouldn't fight orcs with a sword in hand.
I think, oddly, the Orc thing is worth addressing as an example, because I doubt anyone would've particularly cared had a bunch of imbeciles not made a big stink insisting that Orcs are "coded black" which is a ridiculous (and racist) position that seems to have been promoted seriously by extreme leftists (I only found out about it b/c EFAP justifiably mocked it). Channels that comment on pop culture in general might be more inclined to look at depictions of Orcs with that context in mind, while channels more focused specifically on storytelling may not. Meanwhile, political channels, which are also included under this one silly umbrella, are also less likely to pay attention to the design of the Orcs, just like the story-focused channels, only for different reasons, but none of it matters, because HFM seems to make no effort to distinguish different types of channels from each other. What do Matt Walsh or the Quartering have to do with media analysis or critique? What does a self described religious conservative like Shad have to do with liberal atheists who are not straight, like Just Some Guy or Platoon? What do 15 minute quick reviews have to do with hours long deep dive critiques? The only Venn diagram that would reasonably contain everyone catching strays here is "TH-camrs HFM has a bad opinion of." I don't watch all the channels named or alluded to in this video, but every single one of these youtubers that I do watch has explained repeatedly, at length, why they find the way women and various minorities are depicted in recent mainstream media so lacking in comparison with the many, many previous depictions in older, better media, which they adore. It's easy to come in at the tail end of years long conversations about the state of media in general and pluck a sarcastic comment here, or half a statement there, and then point and say "SHAME!" but it's cheap and disingenuous. Speaking of cheap and disingenuous, how about assuming the audience is made up of mindless (young male) sheep? I happen to be a reasonably well educated middle aged woman and HFM's incoherent, unsubstantiated rant has turned me away from ever wanting to watch his stuff again. I did, however, discover RFT, and am looking forward to digging in, so that's something, at least.
It's especially absurd since the actual cultural "coding" on Orcs was and really has always been The Mongols. It really speaks to their literal black and white frame of thinking and total historical illiteracy that they could reach that conclusion at all.
Also worth noting that the orcs in the LotR trilogy came in a variety of skin tones, making their uniformity of hue in RoP more conspicuous in comparison, if one is paying attention to that sort of thing. For what it's worth, Tolkien himself described orcs as sallow, if memory serves.
I'm not sure if that's where it started but I believe this mindset started cropping up when the channel Extra Credits compared orcs to.. uhh folk with darker tones.. Just avoiding the bots there.. So it makes sense why people would notice such a drastic change to the orcs here, but of course extremists then take an issue for noticing said drastic change and it's just exhausting to hear these people screeching. It never ends.
Actually you got it completely wrong. The idea with orcs is that they are sapient beings who are nonetheless born evil and incapable of growth or change. The entire idea that matter might conquer mind was taken by some stupid leftists to affirm the general position of biological determinism and therefore racism. A bunch of imbeciles on the right who are so unfathomably idiotic that they don't understand what analogies are simply said, "So you're saying orcs are black people!?" and ran with that narrative. EFAP rightly pointed out the flaws in the former argument and managed to avoid being taken in by the narrative of the latter. Because the rightwingers in their audience are still too idiotic to get it, they did not even understand that EFAP didn't agree with them either.
I'm a subscriber to HFM, as well as Critical Drinker, and HFM does not do himself any favours in this video. I think the thing that grates is the sneering condescension, coupled with the idea that a best-selling multi-book author can't understand media as well as he can. Furthermore, his analysis of the series is remarkably similar to most of the critics he complains about, but not as harsh. It's fascinating that he seems to have done very little research into the critics either, given that Little Platoon is gay, and Drinker's recommended several shows/films that could be seen as 'woke', such as Arcane and Blue-Eyed Samurai.
I was thinking the same thing. HFM seemed to cover topics that were also criticized in detail by the so-called "woke bros" and his video was actually pretty good until he started that section about them. And yeah, at the point he said that the woke bros hate women and the LGBT community is where he lost me. The Little Platoon is openly gay and Critical Drinker has recommended movies like Prey, Arcane and often loves to talk about Ripley. HFM was clearly over generalizing.
I genuinely dont think he knows those things about anyone on the list. I honestly think he saw nerdrotic, and assumed everyone else was all the same because they do podcasts together. JSG also considers himself a lefty if I recall correctly, and attacks the right in his videos as well.
I don’t subscribe but have generally liked his videos that I’ve seen. I was disappointed as well. If you disagree with them, that’s fine. I watch most of them and I think they do go over the top at times with the woke thing. Considering platoon and RFT were included tells me he didn’t research this at all. If it was just AZ, Shad, and Gary then he’d have a better argument. Thats not a shot because I like those guys but they’ve definitely found their niche of anti-woke and that’s mostly their focus. I agree that he was very condescending. I get tired of this sort of elitist attitude that if you disagree with how I view things, you must be dishonest. It’s a very arrogant mindset to think that people couldn’t possibly disagree with you. It’s when worse to assume malice rather than ignorance. It’s also elitist to view people as so stupid that they can’t possibly know what content is best for them. They need hello future me to tell them what’s good or those poor dummies could get hurt. Maybe it’s the libertarian in me but I get so tired of this nanny state mentality in everything.
@@joshcowart2446 I'm in complete agreement with you there. The elitist "we know better than you little viewer, and certainly better than *those* people" attitude chafes something chronic. Ironically, the call to expand beyond the echo chamber masks the call to actually enter their echo chamber. As with all commentary and analysis, particularly on the Internet, the maxim of 'caveat emptor' applies. I could've missed it, but I never heard HFM ask why people were attracted to these 'Woke Bros', and why they have such large, successful audiences.
He also showed Just Some Guy's avatar multiple times. JSG is a bisexual black man who takes any excuse he can to drag the right in his comic reviews, apt or not. He speaks Tolkien's elvish and rereads the books every year to boot!
I like that he accused all the reputable, actually skilled and knowledgable reviewers and critics of all sorts of underhanded and dishonest actions and yet never supported any of his claims with evidence such as video clips or direct quotes. Thats the mark of a good and honest argument. Wild and unsubstantiated accusations.
@@CassianStone Clips taken out of context, as well as many of their more objectionable takes. Its still not fair to represent them, regardless of whether you object to their beliefs or not.
@@CassianStone If you watch THIS video, RFT actually gives some examples. But I agree it was hilarious he said "No clips or direct quotes" which proves he also didn't watch the video.
@@billjacobs521 I have to admit, I didn't see all of it, but I was a bit confused when RFT says "Critical Drinker is being taken out of context", but then didn't actually explain what was being taken out of context or where. I am genuinely curious, because I enjoy HFM's content and if he was being genuinely deceitful, instead of just making bad faith assumptions, I would very much like to know. I do not, however, want to spend 2 hours watching the entire video, if it's not too much to ask, could you give me an example of him taking someone out of context? I know it seems a bit unfair to ask that, when I could watch the video myself, but you do seem relatively well in the know.
Fun fact: Hello future me cut the whole "woke-bros" section out of the review. You might be just some rando film talker, but your response videos are quite potent.
I love how HFM's explanation for removing the section is "I was in a bad place, I care a lot about men's mental health, and it didn't really fit with the video's message anyway" and not the fact that he, y'know, accused an openly gay man of being homophobic over Rings of Power, or that he conflated a wide pool of critics with his two biggest pet peeves (IE: Drinker and Shad).
@@edwardreed67 At the time of my comment that was what HFM had said to people asking about the cut section in his own video. If there's been more said since then, or on some other platform, I wouldn't know.
@@edwardreed67 He did, so I was initially encouraged, but then I saw LP's account of their interaction: "I left a snarky comment on the video, which was deleted"
Exactly. People always think their position is the normal one, even when (perhaps especially when) they're well outside any kind of baseline of the average.
I love that in his list of political enemies that are "right wing anti lgbt" he includes a black guy who multiple time purged his right wing subscribers by telling them to f* off with their bigotery, a gay guy, and a guy who hasn't even remotely touched on politics
I've seen a lot of Despot of Atrim and he is very knowledgeable of history and rips 'historical' TV shows and movies a new one with excellent wit. I think it was him who did a comparison of Rings of power to Schindler's list wherein he details how the orc captain (and antagonist?) is more like Schindler and Galadriel was more like the sadistic camp commander. A very original and entertaining viewpoint.
@@OrangePikmin-cv9ui The thread of Galadriel being a villain/bad person is one of the more consistent plot threads in the show. If the characters reacted more appropriately, it could be genuinely good material.
I am so glad one of the channels he called out is actually doing a thorough pushback on his claims. Because Ill admit some of it did make me pause for thought, do a little introspective analysis on perhaps my own echo chamber, but the largest segment of the video is devoted to denegrating and undermining these channels with such insistence and surety that I couldnt help but wonder "couldn't everything youre saying about *them* ALSO be said of you or your political tribe? Is it possible that you also so deep in your echo chamber that everyone who criticizes it is perceived as toxic and hateful?" Im only 4 minutes it, but I'm strapping in for all 108 of them, RFT!
I think you're in a good place if you're somewhere in the middle. You agree with him sometimes and sometimes he goes too far. Just like the "woke bros", they also have a point sometimes and other times go too far. Middle of the road means you're still thinking for yourself right?
It's very simple to check yourself. Are you agree on ALL terms? Or only on certain points? If the latter is true than you are good. For example I like shad but I don't agree with him on every point. Same with Az, he is passionate but it can get a bit much for me at times.
@richardduska1558 I'm of the same regard for some of the very right-wing commentators (especially those that lean into their religious bias/faith, because I don't share their beliefs), but that doesn't detract from the fact that a LOT of their points are valid, especially with how long I've been paying attention to it, and if there is one thing I've consistently noticed, ever since the original GamerGate like 10 years ago: whenever any of the woke/progressive ideals get called out, criticized, or even just scrutinized, the person doing the critique is labeled every single demeaning anti-left "ist & phobe" in the book so as to sully their reputation, poison the well, and encourage mobs of all kinds to suppress them. I did keep my eye out for anything equivalent of this type of reaction from the right (or just the non-Left), and the only that measured up is the genuinely vehemently kooky fundamentalists (who seem to be withering away). I don't know. At this point, it just feels pure gaslighting, like I'm being treated like the looney person when I'm noticing exactly what is happening.
@@Dabedidabe I think being middle of the road *usually* coincides with being fair and logical, but don't see too much into it. E.g. theoretically, if 99% of people are on one side, the fair and logical person will be on "the other side". It takes brain power to overrule tribalistic instincts, so just checking that you're middle of the road can be economical, but it's still worth occasionally checking that we're actually being fair and logical
“ these channels target young and vulnerable men” Me, 37 years of age with a PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience, can DEFINITELY concur to that. The guy had us all brilliantly covered!
The person I'd equate you to most in terms of political leaning is Mauler, I don't know what your politics are and I don't care. You're focused on the story and nothing else, even if you do bring up politics in your coverage you really only do it to understand the story more as it might be the writer's intention.
Or just because a critic reviews something politically charged unfavourably. You're not even allowed to dislike something that agrees with these people's politics without them seeing it as an attack on their very being. Absolutely delusional.
If a critic is commenting on "politics" that hasn't been "inserted into the media," then that makes the critic a liar who lies to make things seem political. The Little Mermaid being played by a black actress is not political in any way. You are a racist if you think black people being in movies is "political."
If a critic's entire identity revolves around rooting out a specific concept from every piece of media they touch then yes, it's the critic being political. The nice thing about politics is that it's all just defensible word babble so you can divine a "woke" or "anti-woke" or "political" stance from anything as long as you're willing to put in the work. Kinda like how Cinemasins just puts points on the board to flesh out the score. People are making money from, and designing their identities around, their commentary careers. Expecting anything from the whole endeavor but an ouroboros of outrage is missing the entire point
@@normalgraham if a filmmakers stated intention is to insert their politics and push their agenda then their agenda and their politics will be included in the criticism of the work. I'm really Unsure how you don't grasp that concept. Actually I do know how you can't it's because you don't want to.
I'm at 1:26:42 and HFM has completely failed to mention the multiple movies and shows that have superficially woke aspects that the majority of the "woke bros" have lauded as incredible examples of storytelling. He is currently pretending that someone like Critical drinker would have hated Arwen in the Jackson Trilogy when Critical drinker had nothing but praise for the character work in Blue Eye Samurai and Arcane, both of which are far more reasonably considered "girl boss" stories than anything that was in Lord of the Rings. You are right to point out that there will always be people who scream at false positives but the majority of the people he's citing here, Critical Drinker in particular, have a proven track record of spotting great writing regardless of gender and hair color. Hell, Drinker wrote a book that heavily features a girl-boss.
Its less that and more that critical drinker knows that he cant spin good shows/movies as "feminist trash" because to many people find the movie good. He only points out "wokeness" when something isnt super popular while ignoring the instances in actually popular media
I've seen commenters on his video claim the "Woke Bros" ignoring the "woke elements" of HOTD "proves" they are disingenuous. I tried to explain that having black characters isn't "woke" but I don't think I got through
So they think adding a black character instantly makes something "woke"?... What? How do you get your brain to think that- no, that's just... What? I think I've lost a brain cell because of that. (By his video do you mean Hello Future Me's video? I only ask because I've been a fan of his stuff for helping me with writing that's all... I don't know why I added this, sorry XD)
RFT I was one of the commentators caling out Hello Future Me on his video - I found it to be in incredibly bad faith especially regarding you. Keep up the good work mate, your analysis is fantastic.
I got the impression from Hello Future Me's video that he views wokeness only in its charicature version, and is unable to see its more subtle expressions, like Miriel, Galadriel and Village girl being made de facto leaders of the Numenor-South Land alliance, without doing anything resembling of leadership leading up to that moment
Well, I trust Kronk way more than Hello future me, so.. P.S. on my second listen, just the amount of hypocrisy, misrepresentation and disingenuousness is off the charts. He really let the mask slip on this one. Such a shame.
Either he didn't know about the podcast (like i did until recently), or he knew that if he did, he'd have a higher chance of having a 4 hour video (tbf they'd probably only criticise his rant) be criticised for a minute on every few seconds
Well he knows he'd be outnumbered if they retaliated, and his morals aren't strong enough to handle one person pushing back, let alone like six of them at once.
His inability to recognize what drinker calls the Message really displays his lack of pattern recognition. It's so mainstream that South Park recognized it.
But can’t pattern recognition be generalising though? It’s like all those conspiracy theories about the pyramids and aliens and things, just because there looks like there is a pattern doesn’t mean that there is.
@edwardreed67 Sure, but we aren't talking about common designs across the world, we are talking about a fairly tightly knit community that historically has been trapped in an ideological and socioeconomic bubble.
Hello Future Me deleted that entire section of video. I only knew it existed via internet gossip that caused me to seek this response video out. The part of the video that remains up is so reasonable and fair, and such a sharp contrast to the second half. On the bright side I learned about your channel.
If you haven't watched RFT's videos on Arcane, and like the show - I highly recommend you check it out! It's a breath of fresh air listening to someone explaining in 'autistic detail', to use that phrase, as to why a show is great as opposed to bad.
I think when people call stuff woke, I think it often refers to the priority of progressive messaging over good storytelling or respect for the craft in general. I've heard that Arcane has some progressive elements (I haven't seen it yet) yet the "Woke Bros" like it. Because it is apparently quite good. People point out politics because they took precedent over quality control.
Oh Arcane definitely has woke elements, but it's so well written that I don't care. The elements are not the main part of the story. Definitely give it a watch it's so good.
@@Angrenost02 I would never call woke progressive. If anything woke is regressive. Progressive is a positive term. There is nothing positive about woke ideology. Edited clarity.
@@Angrenost02Completely agree. The world of Arcane is a mess and it's amazing. I would have never have watched it if it wasn't for a lot of the people HFM is incompetently calling out. Their recommendations got me to look past that it was based on league of legends.
I think most of my knowledge of the series came from Platoon, as someone who's never read the books or watched the movies. It's helped me understand and appreciate the medieval fantasy genre overall actually.
It's funny that this comes out on the heels of your Arcane review, since that show pretty much dispels a lot of his claims about these creators. If you just "hated" ideas like stong women or LGBTQ representation, then there is no way in hell you would be making multi-hour positive reviews where those ideas weren't warped to be portrayed in a negative light. It's almost as if the criticism is of the execution, not the ideas themselves. One has to wonder if he even clicked on your channel to see the first part of your Arcane review, of if he just searched "Rings if Power review" and jotted everyone he saw down in a Google doc.
People like HFM are legit scumbag he think because certain people doesn't share the same view as him they are horrible people that want to silent anyone for having a different opinion even thought the "woke bros" will want to have a civil discussing with him if he just ask them
Ralph the movie maker made a video about joker where he sarcastically whined a bunch about people who disagreed with him and I unsubscribed from overly sarcastic productions because of reds constant smug assumptions about what I believed. What a joke, hello future me cameoed on overanalysing avatar once and his reasoning was so bad it made me cringe. Good to know my instinct about him was right.
Oh god he was on Overanalyzing? This is news to me, but i'm assuming this was during one of OA's legend of Korra episode reviews, I stopped watching OA when he started covering Korra because i find that show insufferable and would rather just stick to E;R's korra reviews.
@@Slender_Man_186 It's siege of the north part 1, at the end of OG avatar season 1. Don't judge OA too harshly, I think he is definitely over-generous to Korra but I don't think he's particularly unreasonable about it.
@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 Saw one of HFM's replies to the removal. 'Hey everyone - I ended up removing the "wokebros" section of the video because: [1] while my central message around men's mental health and masculinity is vital, and I will continue to talk about men's issues and how men get caught up in this stuff, I want my channel to be a positive place, and I don't feel I lived up to that in the best way I could in that secti9n, and [2] frankly, I have not been dealing with this video mentally very well from the day it dropped. 'Hope you all understand. '~Tim' Don't know about you but, to quote one of TCD's preferred clips: 'ah, yes, that's definitely shite.'
@@Natusian As an edit to my above statement, I'm being told that it was a lie - this part has been removed from Nebula. I still think it is cowardly to remove it at all - stand by what you say, or amend it to admit your wrongs. Don't hide behind "oh, I don't feel good about being called out."
1:43:37 HFM shows his hand here. “Their warped view of society is getting in the way of [media criticism].” He does not like the worldview of the “Woke Bros,” therefore they cannot be good media critics. Not only has HFM lumped people with very different worldviews together under a collective ideological banner (Shad and RFT cannot possibly be taken to have the same worldview, for example), but he’s also taken a handful of their clips and applied the composition fallacy to claim that he’s proven the whole coven of “woke bros” to be arguing in bad faith. Why can’t the man just say he despises them for having a different worldview, and leave it at that?
Whats funny is that in the review section of HFM's video he absolutely tears most of RoP to shreds, praises a couple of scenes, then calls it mediocre instead of bad/terrible. I get the feeling he only called it mediocre to not be lumped in with the 'wokebro' and so he could launch into his badly researched and ill thought out attack on other youtubers. He also accuses those he's attacking of making up nefarious political intent in the media they criticise, while doing exactly the same thing to those he's attacking. What a shame, it was the first video of his i had seen and it fell off a cliff after the actual review finished.
His video is reading like its going off an NPC script. These people target "young and vulnerable men." What? He's decided all their intent and machinations using conspiracy logic The comspiracy logic continues when he says they do this as a trojan horse when they're explicit that all these are criticisms they hold
It comes across like HFM suddenly flipped his video into a hit job against these other channels in order to place himself at the tippy-top of Moral Mountain, which is childish. He's 2 years late to the RoP party, and it seems like he's attacking others to get his video/channel at the top of the algorithm.
@@Truffle_Pup part of the reason he's 2 years late is because he was afraid of being associated with these people he views as megamind conspiracy theorists
@@AjayRiver Which means this could've been something that's been brewing for all that time. In that case, perhaps this is a situation where he'd been bottling up resentment and frustration over certain, generally popular opinions that he felt were just covers for people to deliver their political views to their audience. Maybe he wouldn't have said any of this normally, but as he felt increasingly isolated in his perspective of the situation, it eventually led him to doing something he wouldn't normally do: target individual creators in order to make himself feel more validated and less alone in his feelings. In his emotional state, he compiled a list of people he SUSPECTED to be conspirators, but didn't bother to fact check or reconsider his decision (which is, of course, extremely irresponsible). Leading to all this.. That's my theory, at least. All I can really do is hope he doesn't continue going down this direction, because I actually really enjoyed his videos over the years.
I stopped watching HFM a couple of years ago, and it was just because his videos were so milquetoste and bland, and Mauler and Efap were rising and invigorating the long form content. Long man good.
I loathe people like Hello future me, they genuinely believe themselves to be "the good guys" and when they think people are on a different side or political view to them (even if those people aren't) they consider it perfectly acceptable to slander, insult and lie. Because as far as they are concerned "I'm the good guy, they are the bad guy, anything I do to them is justified."
It’s hubris mixed with a lack of self awareness that’s a scary problem. And HFM clearly doesn’t realize this. Drinker and the others aren’t perfect but there’s a reason why they have such a huge following. The craft and storytelling out of modern Hollywood in recent has been horrendous. And when paired with on the nose, partisan messages; it makes it worse. Like sludge topped with urine( I apologize for those who are eating). It’s funny because I’ve seen folks call me right leaning mysognist, sexist etc. but I’m far from that. I’m center left. And I loved Arcane and Blue Eye Samurai. All in all, I dislike these types who hide behind toxic positivity and want to scarlet letter their enemies. They are no better than the folks they claim to hate.
Yeah I agree. I haven't seen HFM's videos, but from the clips Charlie has used in this, it seems his RoP video turns into an out-and-out hit job on all these other channels in order to put himself on top of the moral mountain. What a dickhead lol.
@@Avarn388 Blue Eye Samurai is so sick. Well written, great VA's, great art, great action, great intrigue... One of my favourite shows of last year. I will admit, even in the first scene when I figured out Mizu is definitely a woman, ashamedly I did roll me eyes thinking "here we go again", but Wow was I wrong. It's just an awesome story and can't wait for season 2.
In regards to how he's reasoning he's no better than a conspiracy theorist saying that they are being secretive with what they believe and sneaking it in
Ill be honest I bet the main motivation for him being critical of these creators is because he is also being critical of the show and so risked being lumped in with them and so made this to preemptively say "Don't worry I am still woke."
@JasperLane If that’s the case, it makes him more pathetic. Any reasonable person can see ROP sucked and you don’t need to even talk about political elements or anything social. It’s horrendously written, shot etc. but leave it to these terminal ideologies to be so dogmatic in thinking even agreeing with their “enemies” ( even if for different reasons) is somehow association.
I think that’s a little disingenuous. Drinker at multiple times for example has called out reviewers, that, whilst he agrees them ideologically, have taken things too far in lacking in self awareness. Take his South Park review
"We listen to people we disagree with", my entire thought process as I watched this and have been massively enjoying your Arcane videos. It's extra funny cause I agree with some points and at the very least the theory of "there are bad actors who push an agenda first and care about quality second". It has always been true that some people care about their politics more than well crafted media. It does not mean that an criticism that aligns to a political ideology is inherently bad criticism, if anything it is very telling of the critic which helps the viewer understand biases.
As many have noted, this last part of HFM's review is completely unacceptable. It is hypocritical at best and manipulative at worst to make all these assumptions and accusations. Where would we even start to deconstruct this mess? Why is everyone that angrily or emotionally criticizes the show supposed to be some neo-conservative anti-woke shill? People have deservedly rejected this abhorrent amalgamation of Tolkien distortions and that's fair and correct. It is evident, even by media illiterate children that this show is bad. Some of the costumes are bad, the writing is awful, the heroes are villainous or buffoons, the dialogue is just straight up meme material and the LoR canon is actively attacked. Putting aside the politics, should i not listen to anything "the other side" has to say? Even if it is valid? I am currently and always has been checking myself, to see if i have been absorbed by an echo chamber and have turned to radicalisation. But I don't think this is the best or even a half-competent way to go about this. What, should i accept the vilification of "anti-woke" creators and people that share their beliefs? For what? Does that not only fuel polarization and build up this gender, race, sexuality, political or whatever else have you war? I will not be complicit in this. For the record, and I don't mind anyone hating on me for my beliefs, I consider myself to be somewhat progressive. I believe in equal rights for all people, be they women, LGBTQ+ or men, black, white, asian, mexican, ALL PEOPLE. And since I have been on this essay formated media critic side of TH-cam for some time now it seems to me that HFM is having a very bad faith argument right here. I have been subbed to him for a long time, and I considered him thorough and professional when it came to his research as well as his opinions. The opposite can be seen here. You cannot lump all these channels up into a neat camp of hateful bigots. Even if I personally have grown tired of Shad's commentary and maybe the critical's drinker because of the politics, that does not mean I can completely disregard their opinion or criticisms when they are accurate. On the other side your channel and the little platoon for example are ALWAYS in depth. Can there be a miniscule amount of jokes? Sure. Do we have to agree or laugh at them every time? No, to each their own. But it is incredibly disingenuous to proclaime that this channel or little platoon do shallow reviews only to attack the creators for some underlying political agenda. I believe that these two channels AT LEAST love Tolkien and are ver frustrated with RoP. On an endnote I will give my insight on the despot. Here's a channel that I believe perfectly encapsulates the problem with HFM's assertions in his review. Despot will NEVER shy away from his personal beliefs or politics, but he also ALWAYS provides useful insight or knowledge of the creative process. These two are NOT mutually exclusive. I can disagree with his personal beliefs but I can agree with the concrete information he provides. Screw that, I can LAUGH at his jokes, be they offensive or not, EVEN if we disagree. Because as with the Little Platoon, they both are very articulate and seem to have a knack for masterfully using language to construct a very nice and tight joke. We are not forced to watch them, or are led to trap while innocently looking for a RoP review. We are not illiterate. I might CHOOSE to continue watching because of the great script, the valid points the very much needed cold-hard criticism and also for catharsis. Yes, although it may seem an inadequate reason to watch a video, the feeling of retribution or catharsis we might get from someone hating or liking the same media as we do is immeasurably euphoric. Some of these people you, or whoever else, might think they are some dumb angry nerdy anti-woke bigots. But I think that's very unfair and also very rude as some of them put as much if not more effort into their work as HFM. As other commenters have pointed out, it really feels like fear-morgering, which I guess is done by everyone of any political leaning at some point in time. That however doesn't make it right. I wouldn't stand for it if conservatives proclaimed that gays or jews, or whatever else strawman you can imagine, are taking over and corrupting the youth. Equally, I will not stand for a progressive to suggest that supposedly conservative channels are hatebombing current media because they have empowered women or black elves or homosexual depictions. Sometimes a show is bad. That show is tarnishing something I hold very dear to me and is of great quality. I ,as anyone would, feel entitled to get angry with all that wasted budget on a complete turd. Seeing people explain the reasons for that dissatisfaction better than I can, scratches an itch. It feels, again, cathartic. I don't have to agree with their politics, everyone has their own. I don't have to laugh at their jokes. I can just enjoy the deep dive and nitpicking.
(the argument i make below is considered discriminatory and really - it is not but it shows what their values are. they are not global values - they are american values) To a non-American the casting in these shows is incredibly strange and immersion breaking because they come in all shapes, sizes and ethnicities in every single group. However the rational man will point out immediately that this fictional world Tolkien presents is not a global one, hence having American levels of population diversity is just unreasonable. There are no trade ports receiving goods and merchants from the other side of the world in this setting. And to get from one point to another on the map takes a long while. I would just actually argue that there would be more diversity, if they didn't cast Africans, Asians, Caucasians and mixed people together as if they all belonged. Fact is in a non-global world there are ethnic boundaries. Regions where people will have their own cultures and look like they belong. What you got in Rings of Power is the Americanized version of Middle Earth. Well, they even use some of the American political talking points too sometimes.. like.. Elves taking your jobs... They took yer jewb.. It's not discriminatory to point this out. It's the truth. It is fiction sure, but fiction has rules or else it becomes bad fiction. Usually fiction borrows its rules from reality unless otherwise mentioned.
@@whitegoose2017 I appreciate you taking the time to express some of your own thoughts. I feel I am required to respond to them with my own. Although I think this is the respectful thing to do, I am in no way trying to open up a debate. This is nothing more than a good faith, honest conversation. After reading your comment, I have but two things to say: 1) it seems that the casting choice is of utmost importance to you in strengthening the believability of Tolkien's fictional world, in other words your immersion in the story and world building. I have to admit, I am rather lenient when it comes to casting, as long as the acting is good and some basic key characteristics are in line, you'll hear no complaint from me. By basic key characteristics, I am refering to the obvious limitations when depicting the different races of middle earth. I wouldn't take a 6' foot man to play a hobbit, the same way a midget couldn't play a high elf. In that sense, the ethnicity of the actor, or their skin colour for that matter, matters little, except in the cases where it impedes on the organic and harmonious blending with their environment. In so, you would be correct to point out that a darker than coal black man wouldn't be normal to, let's say, be siblings with a white man who's as pale as snow. I also agree with you that time and space matters when we try to understand topographic external characteristic. If we are to agree that Tolkien's world is loosely based off of west-northern medieval Europe, it would be quite dramatic to suddenly see a mix of all the world's ethnicities living under the same roof, as you would see in the States today. I don't personally mind diversity, I don't have any hairs to split with african, asian, middle eastern or american men and women living in Europe together. But I can understand how it might break immersion for some, in the same way that seeing a black woman in Mulan would be distracting or a white guy living together with an african tribe in 2000BC wouldn't really make much sense. It has to do with time and place, not with the rejection of diversity in and of itself. There are ofc some that argue against the literal parallelism of Middle Earth with west-northern medieval Europe, and on the grounds of fiction it becomes extremely difficult to agree on this. I'm not a Tolkien scholar so I'm not familiar with his views on the matter of casting and realism in his story, but I'll leave it at that since this is hardly a productive debate. Some people are distracted by diverse casting, others are not, my issues lay with a reimagining of older media and the brute force changes we see in casting, take for example the newer live action of The Little Mermaid. In the beloved animated version she was drawn as white, in the live action they chose to cast a black woman (terrible acting btw). That to me is of bigger concern, than say the plausibility of darker skin tones in Middle Earth. Changing the depiction of already established characters is something that I will not stand for. And of course, as you pointed out, there are more organic ways to diversify the casting, by let's say writing new characters with proper world building and backstory that would explain their particular diversity (like your city-port example that would excuse a diverse citizenry). 2) My second point has to do with the particularities of race and skin colour when it comes to the USA. I wholeheartedly agree, that for any non-american like myself, their understanding of diversity is a bit...weird? At least interesting. I can't find any other country that unironically groups up people based on their skin colour, or doesn't make any effort to differentiate between skin colour and skin tone. It boggles my mind. From an American POV, someone from the Mediterranean and someone from Scandinavia would be both considered "white". How does that work? Yes we're both Europeans in a sense, but you can't erase all other cultural and genetic differences based on the fact that you think we both look "white". Even in the same country, even with homogeneity, you would still find anywhere from pale to pink to olive skined to tanned. One has blonde hair blue eyes, the other dark brown eyes and hair. One is hairy the other is not, one has a big nose the other doesn't. But they're all the same countrymen. They were all born and raised in the same country, with the same traditions and cultural. But in the eyes of an american one would be "a true European/Caucasian" and the other would be an Arab of some sort. There is so much diversity on each continent of the world, but it is simply reduced to stupid colours like white, black, yellow and brown. Even in Europe there are so many differences between so many peoples like Francs, Slavs, Anglo-Saxons, German, Celtics, Balkans, Scandinavian, Spanish, Italian, so on and so forth. It is utterly ridiculous. Even in medieval Europe, you would expect the aristocracy to look extremely white in comparison to the average plebeian due to their different diets and lifestyles, one working under the sun day after day, the other never even letting a single sun ray touch their skin. A European might see this reflected on the casting and accept it for what it is, but Americans will proudly proclaim how proud they are of their diverse casting. Like what? Is the aristocrat Caucasian/white but the plebeian Black/tanned? When they come from the same place, grew in the same place and live on the same place, for ages? I think this obsession with skin colour and race is rather unproductive, not to say disappointing and takes a lot of time, money and energy. I think it strips creativity and handles the audience like they're little children with no understanding of the world, of differences/actual real diversity and of true identity, not just the colour of your skin. To end this very long essay, I'm not particularly against "diverse" casting, but I will not accept the sloppy, boring and weirdly immature handling of it by some American producers. Time and place as well as historical background SHOULD be considered and should be taken as seriously as diversity, all of these components are NOT mutually exclusive, but complementary and work best in tandem with each other. Finally, for the love of god, stop making sequel after sequel, stop letting AI write your script or do your visual effects, and stop REMAKING older media. Just make something new that's good, that's all everybody's asking.
@@antonypastrikos7036 Yeah I don't want to debate either. I think that because we both already have different ideas regarding as to what is culture, what is ethnicity and so on compared to the American value system that debate would just be pointless, because we would mostly agree. However Americans cannot express themselves as we can because we don't have a cultural stigma attached to these types of conversations. But alas I think that the problem is kind of obvious: the American cosmopolitan culture. That's what is wrong with Rings of Power. Once you see it you can't unsee it. And yes I AGREE SO MUCH. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THE UNKNOWABLE GODS I DON'T BELIEVE IN, DO NOT MAKE GLADIATOR 2... That story was FINISHED. No one asked for Gladiator 2..
In my experience with channels that try to give writing advice there are very few that are of any value. I am very picky because fundamentally anyone can do it, but very few give you something to actually keep in mind. Good example of this is Jed Herne who gives advice to beginning writers that they can actually use to get out of fanfiction level writing and improve on their own. While he does not go into the complications that can arise, he does a very good job of reminding you to stay on point instead of going off wildly and well beyond your skill level. His notes about structure are also very useful.... I am speaking from experience here. Hello Future Me has always had very basic takes that anyone with eyes could tell you... as well as some pretty wild claims that make no sense at all, but seem right before you look deeper into the topic. Which is just his content. He's the guy who will give you the mainstream way of thinking most of the time without the experience of analytical ability to make it worth my or anyone else's time. That's how you get over million subs. It's easy digestible content that will not offend the smooth monkey brain but those who delved deeper than the surface can gain absolutely nothing of value.
When it comes to writing the fundamentals are what you can easily explain under an hour or so (like cause and effect. Yes it is basic but many movies fail even at that nowdays). When you go into more complicated stuff than it gets trickier since they depend on the situation so you don't have 1 answer.
I don't understand why he has done this. Future Me seems like a general good guy, had create videos about world building, very polite. I watched him for years, But I don't get why he did this, normally he is well researched and quite respectful. Does not get mixed into the political squabbles, I don't get why all of a sudden he decided to throw his hat into that ring. Don't know how he does not see your reviews are very fair, you let the film or show be judged on it's own merits not by any connection to any other sources of lore, a fair shot in a vacuum. No politics are drawn in. I say he went as far as doing all the things he claimed these other reviewers did, many of them had good points about how poor Rings of power was, some of them where also very strong Tolkien fans (like myself) so of course their reactions would be emotional and harsh. The other half of his video just seemed like a vailed attack on others about politics, using their criticism of ROPs as the cover story for his attack.
@@jxw457 I mean why? Why go down this road to begin with, starting possible flame wars over what? Rings of Power the trash tv show. But now after thinking about it for a while, I noticed over the last few years HFM has slowly been slipping from none political to more left leaning in his videos, he even started to push it to a degree in some of his later world building videos. I do wonder if HFM himself might have fallen victim to someone manipulating him to become a political activist. HFM is better than this, or was. I use to watch him to get away from the politics.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD I think he just let his mask slip on this one more than usual. He's always been a bit left of center but I never minded because he wasn't shoving it down our throats.. but yeah...
@@jxw457 Yeah he was but he always avoided attacking other TH-camrs. I just wonder why now? I do wonder if something in his private life changed or pushed him to do this?
I bet if you asked the man, he'd consider MauLer and the EFAP crew to be part of the wOkEbRoS as well, simply because they have dared to criticize what should never ever be criticized
@@doctorsleep8766 I don't think so, they're not mentioned directly, it's more political than media focused, the main video is 4 hours long, which translates to roughly 2 weeks Fap Time
@@lennynull-funf-zehn5416ehh they did a massive video when drinker got attacked before, almost all of these guys are their friends and often guests on the show
he doesn't, he has said he doesn't consider the efap guys the same, which just baffles me more on why tf he criticized people like RFT and little platoon.
I don’t even like Just Some Guy like I used to because of instances of him being just as obnoxious and wrong/disingenuous about some of the same people Hello Future Me is targeting, but the man would rant in elvish during his Rings of Power videos and they were filled with book quotes for evidence. The man LOVES Tolkien’s writing and is not just an associated media fan.
The difficult part about people who think they're "centrist" but are actually way more to the left than even they realize - because they've absorbed the larger progressive media messaging and internalized it - is that they cannot see how far away from normal they actually are. So when they accuse people who are more actually in the center of being, effectively more to the right of the center than they actually are, it largely stems from this lack of introspection. But worse, actually left-wing activists who comment on media also never admit to this. You cannot really convince anyone of anything through debate. Particularly someone who refuses to introspect. And with so many dishonest bad actors in the space, there's especially no way to have a real conversation on this topic. The best you or anyone can really do is simply put out your own stuff and let the audience decide.
Well... the "good" news is centrists get demonised by both extremes, so you have be fully committed to nuance and anti-tribalism to continue calling yourself a centrist for any length of time
Agreed. You keep seeing the pattern; the extreme left does something with fanfare, and the "centrist" says nothing, but when most non-progressive leftists object to what was done, the "centrist" leaps into action to attack them while trying to claim they hate both sides equally and are totally not biased.
Most of those "good reviewers" he rattles off towards the 1:43:00 mark are either subtly left-leaning or rather blatantly left-leaning when giving their opinion on movies, so it seems it has a lot to do with what type of bias the creator is "infecting" young men with
It’s just one side of politics seeing the winds change and trying to shore up their audiences so they don’t get convinced by the other side. Overton window is shifting back a little to the center
@@mojorn8837 Considering the overton window has been forcibly moved to the left so much over the last 20 years, this shift *is* decidedly a rightward one, which does make noticing the vibe shift mean you are noticing a shift to the right accurately. But part of the problem with the media class trying so hard to hold onto the leftward lean of the overton window for so long is that a lot of people freak out waaaay too much about what is effectively, simple normalization to a mean.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe correct analysis. They are terrified of a return to old normals because it is a repudiation of the “arch of history” and them being on the right side of that arch in perpetuity. They see themselves through the eyes of the Marxist “man at the end of history.”
@@edwardreed67 I only know OSP, so can only speak on them, but yes they have unnecessary political messages in their videos. I also remember their tweet bemoaning the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action has replies filled with the judge's home addresses and calls for assassination. I asked if they would ask followers to follow the law, or at least just delete the tweet, but they did nothing. It's crazy to list them as exemplifying apolitical creators
I don't know how people reacted before the trailer, but i do know how terrible the promotions were. There were super fans (who most likely paid of) talked about the show and the only thing i remember about is, and i kid you not, one of the guy said that, he could fix Sauron. And then a video where Disa's actress instead of talk about the show she started talking about how great it is to be the first black female dwarf ever. So, yeah, the promotions were terrible and focused on diversity therefor everyone called it woke and terrible.
One of those super-fans was later interviewed, asked what she thought of the show, but she hadn't watched it because she was watching House of the Dragon instead...! I cannot fathom the entitlement and lack of loyalty/gratitude... getting a sneak preview and being paid to talk about LOTR, seemingly because of your immutable characteristics, and not even bothering to watch the show on release, and then openly telling everyone that..! Anti-marketing
It seems like a common thread that middle-right youtubers respect the intelligence of their audiences and left-wing youtubers don't. If you watch content from the former, they encourage viewers to look at other perspectives, especially those that disagree with them, because they're confident in their beliefs and believe they can withstand criticism. But whenever the left-wing youtubers are addressing their viewers, it's all about how other youtubers are "brainwashing the masses" and how you have to be careful to avoid them for fear of poisoning your soft dough-like brain. I don't have any particular stance on this spectrum, but when one side is constantly urging you to not listen to the other, you have to wonder who's making the better points.
That is a bad faith argument on its own, man. Both middle-left and middle-right youtubers are mostly respectful. It's when you go further right or further left is when you find the crazy people. And yes, that's on either side.
Pretty much, right wing youtubers will actively show you first hand how insane someone like Vaush or Hasan Piker is, while left wing youtubers will demonize people as milquetoast as our favorite Gronk boy here for daring to call out the most hamfisted insertion of contemporary politics into a setting where it simply doesn't belong.
@@blinkachu5275 He's not saying far-right creators aren't whackjobs, he's saying they either actively encourage, or at least don't discourage, their audience's consumption of differing points of view.
This whole thing with Hello Future Me reminds me of the NeverKnowsBest situation that EFAP covered with PatricianTV and Creetosis. Both creators randomly include whats essentially a hit piece on several TH-camrs in a video that had no reason to include such a section. They provide the targets full channel names several times, take them out of context at many points, and have a very half-hearted disclaimer to not harras these people who they've claimed are manipulative, horrible, and loathsome in every conceivable way. Its honestly sickening to see these creators who I had some respect for, devolve into drama baiting and attempting to sneakily send their audience to attack those they disagree with. Unfortunately, many people in their comments section fall for these kind of "subtle" tactics because they trust these entertainers without taking any time to critically think about what's happening here.
I'm subscribed to HFM, but watching his take on RoP I think I will now unsubscribe. I am not a fan of some of these ytubers, but HFM sure found a lot of ways to not mention that RoP was "crap" while actually proving it is crap. So he lost my respect.
In the first half of his video he does nothing but mention that RoP isn't good. It's just that in the last half he's, what he assumes to be doing is targeting disingenuous takes. He in no ways likes RoP nor thinks it's good writing based on the first 2.5 hours of the video he made.
To be fair to his point, hw said basically that "RoP is not good, but it's not teh worst thing ever nor is a piece of evil political propaganda." And he is right. The problem is when he starts the second point "These people are saying that RoP is a piece of evil political propaganda, so actually they are the ones doing evil political propaganda" and that's the part in which he is wrong.
People always say that if X came out today youtubers would complain that it's woke but the problem is that when the same thing gets adapted it gets change not to be offensive we saw that with avatar, people have been saying for years that because of katara or toph the show would get called woke, and then the live action comes out and they deliberately cut stuff out to not be offensive, despite the cut stuff being part of the characters and their arcs
They also tried this with Bayonetta by saying feminists love her even though they used to hate Bayonetta for being too sexualized just like they hate Eve from Stellar Blade now. It's shifting the goal posts by accusing the other of doing the shifting.
I hate seeing this take so much I see red. it pops up all over instagram or many woke or progressive channels and not once do they ever do anything to back it up or do any and all research to see that no, we would NOT call Terminator or Star Wars woke if they came out because they weren’t preachy horribly written crap.
I've watched Hello Future Me's video and while I don't think he's wrong all the time, he clearly didn't watch your videos. What I found interesting though, is that a few years ago there was a big discussion about orcs in DnD being coded black and everything bad about orcs was automatically racist. And while I don't remember The Drinker talking about it, I remember Shad being pretty outspokenly against it. And just for the record, I would agree that it's a bad faith argument. But I think it's funny that now Shad is arguing that of course the Rings of Power orcs are clearly a racist stereotype, because they are pale and enslave people.
I certainly think Shad is over-sensitive, seeing red flags and automatically claiming there's malice behind them (like HFM). But I do believe there is gentle discrimination at work. If you had an artistic vision that required changing the orcs from green to black, that idea would be vetoed very quickly. Similarly with the Harkonnens in Dune... can you imagine Villeneuve telling the producers: "I want the evil guys to be pure black-skinned"...? But white (or blue, green, purple, ...) is allowed. So Shad is very much exaggerating, but he's not totally wrong... there is some kind discrimination there with the white orcs. I REALLY would prefer not to be noticing these things but in recent years we've been told to see everything through the lens of race
If the definition of 'Cherry Picking' meant [The act of cutting open, removing everything inside and analyzing every facet with a proverbial fine-toothed comb with the intent of cataloguing and presenting the findings to a logical conclusion], then RFT is ABSOLUTELY guilty of 'cherry picking'.
On the Orc question; All of the clips he showed of Shad and Nerdrodic are them taking the topic of REPRESENTATION seriously from the point of view of the "media literate" crowd, who about twice a year rediscover incredibly stupid argument that "OrcS ArE BlACk PeoPLe/GOblIns aRe JeWs/ThE BuGs arE PoC." They are making fun of the representation argument of "if I cannot see it, I cannot be it" (the "it" being the exact race, sexual orientation, and gender identity that is identical to mine). They are taking that argument and applying it to the bad guys to see if the writers are consistent/biased. Representation is so important the the cultures and the world building are shattered, but not so important that the bad guys are diverse(which is our strength). And by diverse(which is our strength) we mean not White..... or Asian..... or Jewish (depending on the day).
I believe what Nerdrotic is trying point out about the female orcs, is there was an announcement that Rings of Power would have female orcs and the studio, etc tried making a big deal out of it but for all that you can't tell if any of them are female, so what was the point? The weird warg was female though, we pointed that out in GrimMedia's video on that scene.
You only cry and throw a temper tantrum about "inserting poltiics into franchises" when it is politics that you disagree with. You're exactly the type of mouthbreather who pretended that Sound of Freedom was good because it aligned with your politics.
Filmmaker: Let's make this one female character anything other than submissive and fertile. Shadiversity: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS WOKE GARBAGE!? WHAT IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD, JESUS CHRIST, IS POSSESSING THESE PEOPLE TO RUIN BELOVED CHARACTERS FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL AGENDA! DIDNT ANYONE READ MY BOOK!?
Just Some Guy being listed is especially hilarious since he is a 2000s-era urban liberal who has beef with the MAGA crowd and other right-wingers on the regular.
I recall the Mario movie last year produced the same reaction as the Dungeons and Dragons movie, where the "bros" expressed concerns about the movie due to its portrayal of Peach in the trailer. When it came out, there were accusations of disingenuous flipflopping since most of them liked the movie(I believe Shad was the only one that actively disliked it after seeing it). To this day, people cite the Mario movie as an example of why a reviewer shouldn't be taken seriously if they use the word "woke" unironically.
Pretty sure subbing to The Little Platoon got the Algorithm to suggest your channel to me. On that note I can also vouch for Just Some Guy: politics comes up a lot more often in his videos, but that's more because comics are a lot more overt about beating their audience over the head with political messages. Hello Future Me is doing a fairly standard type of grift: 'These people are doing a nefarious thing with their politics, you need to get outraged about it'. Whether the targets are actually guilty or not is of minimal importance. EDIT: He also has things ass-backwards. I'm subbed because of the long-form critique and acerbic wordplay; I actually wound up _leaving_ the sort of subculture bubble he's describing because so many of the channels I was following started radicalizing and engaging in blatant scaremongering. In other words, exactly the kind of thing Hello Future Me is currently doing.
That was PillarofGarbage for me, I subbed to him long before I knew of Mauler or Critical Drinker but gradually he was getting less into the concepts of a Marvel or Community episode or movie and would bring up content about how grifters are lying to you about wokeness. When I warned him of his content going more towards the same grift-material he was critical of, and using the word "lying" in his Critical Drinker video; he just assumed I was an anti-fan and told me this was fun content his **paid members asked him to do** while he works on a longer video essay...
@@silenceyouidiot Yeah, the warning signs started to show with POG's video on Drinker's She Hulk review. I waved it off, but as time went on, he started to get deeper and deeper into the anti-anti woke pipeline, and by now he's pretty much gone off the deep end.
It’s especially ironic to include just some guy. He’s as left as they come. One of his most famous things was a few years ago when him and rekieta got into it. Rekieta basically called him a commie which isn’t far off based on the argument he was making at the time. After that he went super left and started going after many people in the circle listed in the video. He’s on the outs currently for that reason. It seems like he’s on this list simply because he’s a big lord of the rings fan and probably had similar criticisms as the rest. So to include him who’s a lefty that criticizes woke stuff and platoon and RFT who generally don’t talk politics, it almost tells me he searched rings of power critics and just listed the names that popped up. Also the diversity of opinions of all the people listed pretty much destroys his whole argument.
He openly admitted that if you weave disingenous lies into honest critique often enough, that the people he sees as his audience can be effectively brainwashed into believing anything. And only believes thats bad because theyre being brainwashed into the WRONG POLITICAL FACTION LMAO
I'd agree with HFM if not for all the marketing Amazon did for RoP saying they intentionally made it "modern day". That and the fact that HFM pointed out earlier in his video that modern day politics were injected into the show where it didn't belong
Or You know every work out there has some value to it, and making things is hard so calling something terrible is insulting and disrespectful? That could also be the reason.
@@Angrenost02 because people worked on it, put parts of themselves into it. Calling it terrible dwindles all that work down as if it were nothing. Personally I think that's wrong. Key word "Personally".
HelloFutureMe is really disingenuous and hypocritical with a lot of his take. I used to like him until he said that black gnome queen in Rings of Power is okay, despite him also shitting on The Last Airbender because they casted white actors to play main trio instead of asians, like what the fuck? So in one case race swapping is okay, but in the other it's rahcism?
If you mean the movie, that's even funnier because while the different tribes were all different races from the original cartoon, they were still all the same race within the tribe, which makes sense, as opposed to random black people who somehow don't get bred out of the gene pool after centuries.
That reminds me of a dude that criticized Mauler's awesome dissection of Multiverse of Madness. He actually skips to the memory store fragment looking for criticism of two moms thing and is visibly dissapointed when he finds no comment on that point :D
Your response is brilliantly constructed, and effectively presented. I, a very feminist and highly educated female fan of yours, am very pleased with your video, as usual. I hope all of you Bros, (especially you, TLP and TCD, of whom I'm an avid follower) keep on with the academic-level good work 🍻🥂
HelloFutureMe is one of those people how doesn't care to take in information if he even *thinks* he'll disagree with it on any of it He's actually lucky this attitude has only led him to not understanding other TH-camrs well because this same attitude is why we have flaterthers or cults, it is very bad for your brain
I am honestly shocked that HFM has the sheer fucking audacity to call people like you, Mauler, Drinker and Nerdrotic "political" grifters. Drinker gave the Daily Wire movie Lady Ballers a negative review, mere weeks after being interviewed by Ben Shapiro. Mauler and the EFAP crew have torn apart biased movie reviews from the left and right including TYT and DW! Mauler himself to me has always seemed politically neutral. To call him of all people a "gifter" is fucking absurd! He's bought on all kinds of people on his podcast, not just conservatives. Sure, Shad is an outspoken Mormon, but he's always been honest about his personal biases. HFM is being incredibly dishonest; he should be ashamed of himself for not doing the research and acting in bad faith.
I'm a massive fan of Brad Taste In Music, and in the comments section of his Djesse Vol 4 review, 2 commenters got on me for "going down the alt right pipeline" and "shouting out hateful channels." One of them said that "I want to believe that you have a good heart, but the fact that you endorsed people who spread hateful ideas, makes me doubt you. No left leaning person would say Nerdrotic, Mauler, etc. are cool people. If you paid closer attention to what they’re saying instead of taking their dogwhistles and talking points at face value, you’ll notice it." I just didn't really know what to do, because I've gotten a couple comments like that, but they were from some randos that I didn't really care about. Whereas these people were part of a community that I really enjoyed being a part of, so it made me feel more awkward. I haven't really interacted with either commenter since, but the interaction just kind of left me feeling very weird. Like 2 communities I loved were grabbing my arms and trying to pull me towards their side, when I just want to be a part of both of them.
1:21:20 Picard in that scene immediately disagrees with that sentiment and is looking for more peaceful compromise between two parties. TNG was political (sometimes, there are many episodes with little to no political discussion), but it absolutely did not pander and Triggenometry in their video have an example of a movie that is barely political (Jurassic park), so IDK how HFM thought that one clip somehow countered what Drinker said.
I think Future Me might be spinning those three quotes about Galadriel to suit his opinion that she is a great general, combattant, and leader of Elves. Throwing in the quote about her hair for good measure, I would read it as thus: Galadriel was of amazonian stature, being tall and with defined musculature. She put up her hair when engaging in athletic activities - such as running, climbing, wrestling, and so on. While combat requires athleticism, it is not an athletic activity per se. Galadriel and Celeborn faught heroically in defence of a place. She was there, not on her own but with her husband, and together they did battle with the enemy in a heroic way. Celeborn was the one who led the host of Lorien, and Galadriel was with him. She cast down the walls, presumably with magic, and not with her sword-arm. She looked upon the Dwarves with the eye of a commander, suggesting that her experience as part of an army, especially when taken with the above readings, allowed her to see in them the qualities that would make them good vs orcs. She simply knew what to look for, as any veteran probably would.
I think it funny because by far her greatest quality as a leader was her wisdom. Yet in ROP that trait is outright missing. Why the hell you would want to portray Galadriel as just some dumb sword fighter is insane. None of those other traits he states from the books and lore, I would say, come anywhere close to importance as wisdom. Being wise is by far the most important trait for a leader of a kingdom or an army. Being a great fighter or magician wouldn't mean your side wins. If that was the case how the hell did Sauron or Melkor ever lose in the first place? Whereas if you position your men correctly and make the best use of the troops than you are highly more likely to win and suffer less losses. That's how I see Galadriel. She's very much capable of fighting if absolutely necessary but otherwise takes a more passive role and commands from a central position whereas her husband is the one on the front lines giving the moral boast and is the better frontliner as it were. But she uses her wisdom and everything she's learned from a few thousand years into making more of her resources. Let's not forget she's trained in magic but doesn't protect herself with a barrier which we know she's capable of as doesn't she have one around her kingdom in the books? So no ROP actively weakened her and turned into a brawler. I just don't see her chasing after Sauron for hundreds or thousands of years when she actively wanted to be a ruler. We know that.
Thank you for saying this, because I was just about to comment something similar. I watched this video yesterday and returned to it because the part where HFM uses those quotes just didn't sit well with me. He took those passages out of context -- the former ones being from the First Age when she was actually very young (if I remember correctly), before certain events of the First Age cause her to learn wisdom and become who she will be in LotR. This certainly happened long before the Second Age. And I don't know how you can look at those quotes from LotR and think she was some sword-slinging girlboss in context, without having already seen Rings of Power. I certainly never thought of that, and I've lost track of how many times I've read the book. Casting down the walls sounds a lot like magic to me, and the other quotes are about her leadership, not being a frontline warrior.
After close to 2 hours of this I'm not sure where to start. It feels close to the recent Neverknowsbest video where he seemed to go after people he had a chip on his shoulder about. I'm getting the same vibes here, like he'll get credit if he is seen rebuking these channels or cause people to watch his video to get the full context, I don't know. The thing with the "wokebros" is that I bet if we asked them what they thought of Sarah Conner, Ellen Ripley, Samantha Carter, Xena, Buffy or The Bride as examples, then they would like them. The problem with the modern female characters seems to entirely be the writing that creates and supports them rather than the fact that they can kick ass just as well as the boys. Hell, to use a relevant example I'm pretty sure most of the people he talks about here love Arcane. I don't know what he says about him but it's kind of weird seeing Just Some Guy be included. I haven't watched JSG in years, always found him a bit mixed, but as far as I remember he describes himself as being on the left.He is also however a massive Tolkien fan to the point where I think he can speak Elvish to a certain degree. I'm pretty sure his criticisms were largely based on lore accuracy and even if he did care about woke inclusion then he is on the side of the fence that is supposed to like that. I feel that if even left wing people are pointing to this and calling it out then maybe it really is a problem that is damaging the quality of the story you are trying to tell. Regardless of all this, you're good RFT. If he actually watched your content he would have seen the final autopsy videos where you admit to faults and offer corrections which to me shows you are only interested in the truth of what is there in the media rather than pushing some agenda.
Your onto something there, I do feel like HFMs video is really a chip on his shoulder video, if you watch his eyes and facial movements you can see real distain, hatred in them. It really does seem like he is doing this second part of the video not out of care for criticism for just out of a desire to attack his political 'enemies'.
Many of these channels were not political a while ago. Drinker was just a media critic. Many are just fans pointing out their gripes with current media. Only one or two of those channels is actually a political channel, the quartering. This guy was poorly researched, glad to see him taken to task by a pro.
Don't you just *_love it_* when critics of critics criticize based on the assumptions these critics have in their heads of creators in a certain political leaning rather than the actual content of their works. It's like Organized Chaos changed his channel name and grew facial hair.
Absolutely fascinated by him having introduced you as a guy who can't explain why something is bad and instead describes it slowly and condescendingly then scoff at it, only to then respond to your point by repeating it slowly and condescending then scoff at it. Absolutely brilliant
Hello Future Me's imitation of The Critical Drinker is incredibly inaccurate as The Critical Drinker has recommended/highly praised both Arcane and the Queens Gambit on Netflix 😂.
@@FionalahHe also likes stuff like Kill Bill or Everything Everywhere, to me it seems pretty obvious Critical just likes entertainment and its' not focused on the diversity at large.
I bet you 10 bucks that in both of thoses reviews he says something that completely undermines the praise he gives and/or twists what ever is being said to be more like his morals and beliefs.
The reaction or summary you gave on rings of power is the most thoughtful one i've seen. You do mention the strong female characters from time to time but you are just pointing out the obvious. Maybe he watched parts of this and assumed you are just hating, idk.
Hello Future Me claiming that we, as a species, have gone past bio-essentialism is laughable considering how people in less developed and more religious societies think. Which includes the majority of the people on Earth. HFM is so isolated and uneducated that it is incredible.
To the point of seeing wokeness in everything. It become difficult to not assume when studios say it's a goal to insert these things into films. I do agree they get it wrong sometimes. However after so many years of things like Cpt. Marvel, Madam Webb, GB2016, Halo, and Rings of Power etc it becomes hard not to see it everywhere.
1:17:37 Um, no, no, NO! Okay, I do not have the grace to give Hello Future Me the benefit of a doubt here, for the simple reason that he took the trouble of finding and uploading the actual quote. This was a blatant misrepresentation of this one-time, never elsewhere depicted description of Galadriel at one specific point in her life. I call it a misrepresentation because he specifically ties this quote to Galadriel "at this point in her life": i. e. during the Second Age, thousands of years after she left Valinor. This quote had *nothing* to do with Galadriel during the Second Age. In fact, it didn't even have anything to do with Galadriel during the First Age. This quote is *specifically* referring to Galadriel's youth in Valinor during the Age of Starlight (or Age of the Trees, if you prefer). The only battle that took place in Valinor *EVER* was Feanor's slaughter of the Sea Elves who refused to give him their ships so he could chase Morgoth to Middle Earth. Galadriel had no part in that, although I think some versions have her brothers trying to prevent it. Galadriel and her brothers got to Middle Earth by following Feanor's brother Fingolfin across the ice cap Morgoth created between Valinor and Middle Earth. Once they got to Middle Earth, Tolkien specified that Galadriel went to stay with Luthien's parents for the thousands of years of the First Age, learning how to be a lady and how to use non-combative magic from Luthien's powerful but non-combative mother Melian (Luthien of "Beren and Luthien," ancestors to Elrond and Aragorn). In fact, the only reason Galadriel is able to stay there and learn most of the skills she will later use to orotect Lothlorien is because she *didn't* take part in the slaughter of the Sea Elves or follow Feanor, who slaughtered them. Luthien's Dad was related to the Sea Elves and understandably furious over what was done to them. I give Hello Future Me this much benefit of a doubt that, towards the end of the First Age, she may have unavoidably been caught up in battles I haven't read about yet, but not by her own choice. Luthien's parents' realm was eventually destroyed in that war. During the Second Age, Tolkien again specified that Galadriel took *no* part in the battles against Sauron. Her role was strictly advisory and she spent most of those thousands of years wandering Middle Earth, trying to find a good place to found her own realm and keeping her company of wandering Elves *away* from the combat zones. During the Third Age (LOTR takes place at the end of this one) Galadriel's husband Celeborn steps in to take Stewardship of Lothlorien after his cousin, Lothlorien's proper king...drowns. Trying to swim from a ship bound for Valinor back to Middle Earth. Which is a story the show-runners absolutely have the rights to use. So, no. This quote has nothing to do with Galadriel being an active warrior. Any desire she ever had for battle was crushed beneath witnessing the reality of the carnage left by the slaughter of the Sea Elves and the grim losses suffered crossing the ice to Middle Earth. Her "Amazonian disposition" was almost certainly tied to her pride, the hot temper she had at in her youth, and her enjoyment of taking part in the "athletic feats," which included combat sports. Combat sports are *very* different from actual combat.
Not to be that guy, but "in command" and "on the front lines" are two very different things. It's not like General Esienhower stormed the beaches of Normandy personaly. So when it says in command it doesn't mean neccasarily that Galadriel was actually fighting. She could have been, she was an immensly powerful elf even before the ring of pwer but again just because it says "in command" doesn't mean wielding a sword in the middle of the combat.
Yeah I also think the guy brings and mentions that she was described as being of an Amazon disposition but again that means very little. Not every Amazon would have a lot of combat experience or went into battle. Yes in Greek myth they are described as super strong female warriors and that is likely what Tolkien is aiming towards but again not all warriors are equal in the art of sword fighting. Galadriel probably would have been trained with the sword BUT again in real life noble ladies were also known to fence and taught to defend themselves. Doesn't mean you had ladies of the house on the walls defending a castle alongside the men. The other thing that bothers me is that Galadriel displays so little wisdom in ROP. She was a wise ruler by the time we reach the 2nd age. She was trained by a Maia like Gandalf in the ways of magic. If given the choice I'm sure Galadriel would blow someone away from her than attack them with the sword. I see her as a more defined older woman who would view a sword as an unwieldy tool that she could use when she has no other choice (Especially in the 2nd age maybe you could get away with it in the 1st age). LOTR is tricky as magic can be very undefined as it's a very loose system where we don't fully understand how it works or what abilities or powers a person could have access to. BUT Galadriel should be using her magic or did ROP forget about magic existing? Like that Volcano explosion would have a great time to show her powers of barrier creation which we know are in place around her kingdom which should also exist in ROP but doesn't because she's been chasing after Sauron for a thousand years. How the hell she hasn't searched the entire middle earth at that point I don't know.
Gonna add this as a separate comment to back up your point on ROP in opposition to HFM. Under no circumstance would a sailor allow anyone to wear plate armour on a boat at sea. Doesn't matter what rank they are that would be outright stupid to ignore an obvious risk. Did sailors, pirates and so on wear armour at sea. YES but under very strict circumstances aka when they're under attack, not when they're just sailing about. After all it's very hard to sneak up on a boat at sea and so as long as someone is on look-on, you'll have plenty of time to equip yourself. Sailors would also wear headscarves and light clothes because it is boiling hot out at sea. The sun heats the water and guess what happens than yes warm water vapour rises up into the sky. So armour on a boat would feel like being cooked in a hotpot, your organs would shrivel and die. Also you don't want to be overheated on a boat as a fresh water would be heavily rationed. So yes it is a criticism of the show not to put Galadriel in reasonable clothes out at sea. FFS they gave her warmer or more clothes in the snow environment didn't they? As for the sea is always right... I don't think I need to even discuss how that is a criticism as you summed it up perfectly. You can't have a character who watched or knows his wife drowned at sea sprout the line that the sea is always right. Unless you want him to be a villain or psychopath who enjoyed his wife being down on the seabed. Could he still have a love of the sea or complex relation with it. Yes? Sure? Maybe? I don't know because ROP is a mess of writing mistakes. But in that case the writers just have choose a less definite slogan or phrase than the sea is always right. The sea is a brutal mistress OR The tides bring good and bad to these waters. LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE! I am not being paid or care enough to give ROP writers actual good lines. Edit : Sod it. I want to prove a point. After a few more minutes of thinking I came up with this. The sea is the giver and the taker. That line would should a bit of complexity... rather than the sea is always right. You could get away with exchanging the sea for an actual gods name but OOOPPS forgot they don't have the rights to it so they went with the sea is always right which is going to be a real hit of a line when Numenor gets the Atlantis treatment. That line would also imply that the characters and everyone on Numenor would be fine with what happens to their civilisation and that all of them just deserve to die because that's what the sea and the god(s) is going want that in the future. Don't forget folks the sea is always right... which hold on a moment If the sea destroyed the ship Sauron was on and Galadriel somehow came across in the first place and than also sent a sea serpent after them than wouldn't it be wanting Sauron and Galadriel to drown and die? So would the character believe that the sea changed its mind and wanted Sauron to live... the ultimate evil?
To be fair, I've never seen RFT and cinemasins run by Matt Walsh in the same room
I would non ironically watch Cinema Sins run by Matt Walsh and I don't even like the guy
Yeah I saw that video but didn't watch every second because who's got time /focus to listen to a 4 hour video
@@sky0kast0 Long man bad
@@sky0kast0kind of a weird thing to post in the comments of the second channel of someone who posts 4hr long videos😂
its like that
1:32:50 Funny how HFM used The Witcher and Mandalorian as examples of shows using stoic and heroic men. Two shows that dragged their male leads further and further into the backseats in order to push their female leads and support roles to the forefront.
Claiming that The Little Platoon doesn't care about Tolkien is absolutely insane! He's knowledgable AF about everything Tolkien's ever written!
i was there for the 3 hour argument about magic and how it works during rings of power i can vouch for platoon
Same with Despot and Drinker, they speak at length about how special Tolkien's work is to them
I was grateful that he blessed EFAP with his knowledge of Tolkien's work. Sadly, his series of RoP videos remains unfinished...
@@mr_jyggalag Don't exactly blame him for that. ROP is such an insult on every level to Tolkien's life of work that there is no word in any of Tolkien's languages to describe it. Legit brain rot occurs watching that series. I'm still not sure I've recovered all the IQ points I lost.
Platoon just released the first part of his Dune review and in that review he covers history, the history of Whigism and it's connections in popular scifi, the subversion of whog thought present in Dune, and he's just getting warmed up...😮
"Why can't they honestly have these beliefs you disagree with?" I love this line because it shows a base level of respect towards people that you don't necessarily agree with. "They are obviously lying" isn't a helpful rebuttal and all it does is lionizes your audience.
It's weird in current year that it's so easy for lefties to slander an individual with little to no evidence, and essentially no repercussions towards them for potentially unfair defamation of character, (at least in a moral sense, not a legal one) but when you generalize a very large group, like accusing Hollywood writers of being kinda lefty, for example, then those same lefties crawl out of the walls to accuse YOU of being unfairly prejudiced. And they don't even blink when you bring it up.
I mean... the entire basic concept of the anti SJW movement is riling up people against an alleged political conspiracy to ruin IPs with wokeness and that all the big studios are in cahoots to change culture and that having modern sensibilities about minorities in your writing somehow ruins it.
It seems a bit hypocritical to then complain about others making bad faith assumptions about them. That doesn't make it okay, but I feel like both sides need to think about how they view their "opposition".
Propaganda> "fairness" " unbiased"
Lionize or radicalize?
I think it's worth noting that most of the anti-woke critics were making fun of Desa for constantly bragging about being the first female dwarf, only to cite her as one of the few characters they enjoyed after watching the series. It's almost like most of them will respond positively to a good performance even after they've been primed to dislike someone.
Hello Future Me is trying to reconcile the fact that his analysis of Rings of Power lines up with someone who holds different political beliefs from himself. And the only way he can do that is attributing malice or nefarious intent to the other person.
Yes but the reason that he's doing it is because everyone that criticised the show (or other shows/movies from mainstream companies) was immediatly labeled as a nazi, ist and phobe and he is trying his hardest to signal to his woke-minded peers that he is still an ally despite criticising the show.
@alex9x9 to be fair, some of those peeps are definitely either ists or feeding into ists to make a buck. Heelonbabyface, notably, being the "fucking pronouns" guy. I wouldnt trust that man an inch when it cones to media critique
HelloFutureMe's claims can easily be disproven by house of the dragon. It was viewed the same way as rings of power until it came out and the "woke bros" reviewed it fairly on its own merrits.
I'm pretty sure he mentioned HOTD in the video, and his argument was "Well, that was good, and these people only go for the low-hanging fruit, so of course they didn't criticize it."
Because, of course, it couldn't be that these people are just being honest... No, they must be intentionally picking badly written targets to shield themselves from criticism! He even claims they use a motte and bailey argument where they'll claim "agenda", but when their claims are confronted they quickly abandon them, because they're "indefensible", and hide behind "Woah! I'm just critiquing bad writing!"
@@deamongimli I often hear the argument that because HotD was so popular, that's why critics switched the narrative and they also apply this argument to something like Arcane where it's too popular to criticize. However this does not account for Drinker praising something like Pray or Andor, media that most of his audience probably doesn't like/have any interest in seeing.
@@deamongimli"well you see, that show was good so they didn't hate it." The fact that he would say that as though it proves his point is just... wow
@@shnobby3547 I understand the thought process, and it's probably true in some cases, but it's also a dangerous one as it just lets him dismiss anything that might disprove his argument.
@@deamongimlithis slope looks very slippery to me.
Wait, he's claiming that someone named "The Woke Critic" is secretly a political channel? I for one am absolutely shocked! 😂
It's so overt, it's covert 🤫
Wait, wasn't The Woke Critic the one who didn't sleep during his videos?
woke critic's sarcasm is very pleasing to me
The people who claim to hear "dog whistles" everywhere even see dog whistles when the whistle in question is a straight up air horn.
@@HenryLeslieGrahamso many people take him seriously, too. which is just so funny to watch. that's like reading an article by the Babylon Bee or the Onion and then analyzing+criticizing everything about it as if it's a legit news story and not at all sarcastic, satirical, and comedic hahah.
It baffles me that RFT doesn't have more subs. You're awesome, dude.
I get why, but I am sad about it. Not everyone wants to watch hour long plot breakdowns of movies and TV shows. I personally love it, but I have never been able to get anyone else to watch one of his videos. Most people just watch movies/ TV shows, and think they are good or bad. They don't want to know why they are good or bad. Unfortunately.
He's already got like three of them docked, how many subs does a man need?
@@Vaguer_Weevil I meant the sandwiches.
Agree. Breakdown wise he is the best. The hours and work that he does is insane. My favorite for sure. I do like Platoon as well. Mauler does some good ones too.
One more thing, Gary was the first to have already given up the show months before not only for interviews, statements, press releases... But he had in his hands actual Leaks from someone inside the production, they already knew how everything would go and if you are one who knows what's going to happen in that bin of a show you can't help but mock it in advance
Even without that, we can make certain assumptions that will usually be correct. Not always but when you look at the state of Hollywood and then a trailer that has all the same woke tropes, it’s not crazy to make an assumption. You’ll be wrong occasionally like with house of the dragon or d&d but you’ll have one hell of a high batting average.
@@joshcowart2446 Especially when it's the focus; if your advertising is "Lots of black people!" then I assume your actual product sucks, because otherwise you'd tell me something substantial about it, get normal, non-race-obsessed people excited.
@@billjacobs521 couldn’t agree more.
I don't have a problem with people having assumptions regardless of how negative or positive if they're willing to claim their assumptions were incorrect after watching the show when applicable. I don't have a problem with Gary's attitude even without that explanation. If trailers/promotional material really put you off, that's not inherently wrong.
The original video by HFM has been edited to remove the hour plus long section of the video. Shame that he thought so little of his own principles that he couldn't leave them up in face of overwhelming disapproval.
Maybe he just realized his mistake and decided to hide it. Also possible.
@@ОлегВысоков-л8й Maybe but I would suggest that the way to do that is to mention your opinion has changed but leave the old one up as an honest admission that you did think that at one point. Trying to cover it up will always seem kinda scummy to me even if I know the intent behind it was genuine.
I used to openly publish ideas that I now find reprehensible and initially I decided to leave that part of me online and made an apology and explanation of why my ideas changed. However, people kept little linking to the ideas I no longer held, so they were still active in the world. I decided to remove all of the things I had published so they couldn’t be linked back to, but I kept and still keep my apology and explanation up.
It’s possible that he removed parts of his video in order reduce the number of people who would be able to use those parts out of context after his admission that he misread some people.
booo fucking lame
@snakesnoteyes So, removing it did nothing but make you seem dishonest?
Should of left them up, honest actors will accept it's the past, dishonest ones will just get it from the way back machine.
Scared to be lumped in with the wrong people who agree with him the show is bad, but also too scared to look into it closely because he may find out it's not that simple. Yeah, I think I know where his "anxiety" comes from.
To me Arcane proves HFM's overall point wrong. Arcane has received near-universal praise, including from "woke bros" like Critical Drinker, and yet on paper Arcane is extremely "woke." The two lead characters are female who are extremely proficient in combat, one is a butch with a female love interest who beats up men more than twice her size, and the other is a terrorist with one of most complex and sympathetic portrayals of childhood trauma and mental illness I've ever seen. And that's to say nothing of the heavy themes of social inequality and critiques of capitalism in the show.
Yet I have never seen a detailed review of Arcane lambasting it for being woke. On the contrary, Vi is often contrasted with Galadriel in ROP for how to write a "girl boss" female protagonist well. Which indicates that what critics like Critical Drinker actually have a problem with is hamfisted political messaging that takes priority over good storytelling, like in Rings of Power, rather than certain politics per-se.
People who hate on the "Woke bros" wave that off as them "Saying that they like Arcane to prove that they aren't a bigot" which is basically a kafka trap.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Yeah, if those critics were actually the straw men HFM describes, they absolutely would have dragged Arcane for being woke, you can’t convince me otherwise.
Facts
Haven't they been almost silent on Arcane though? I honestly have never heard a word from the Quartering, Despot of Antrim, Disparu or Heeves or Shadiversity on this show, not to mention full fledged reviews. I may have missed it, sure, but I get the impression they mostly ignore good stuff that doesn't fit their narrative.
@katarinakremberg1319 Most of them rarely cover animation, but I think I recall Critical Drinker doing a video on it and I think Shad reacted to an episode a few years ago.
Also since when was the Quartering a film critic? He tends to just cover pop culture news
Goodness sake! I like Hello Future Me, but with his attitude, I don’t know how he will respond to women reviewers like the Authentic Observer who called out Galadriel the same way the men did! He’ll be flabbergasted!
Politically possessed people don't listen to things that point out their own hypocrisy.
Being kind is not the same as being effeminate. One can be kind and masculine.
It used to be quite the masculine trait to be kind and polite. It was a sign of discipline and being well-adjusted.
Henry Cavill builds and donates PCs, he's the chad of the modern age
While I understand the fact that the anti woke media review ytbers can get annoying. You shouldn't just blanket describe people as that thing because they criticised a piece of media, and his doing so says a lot about his integrity, lack of research, and care for fairness and accuracy.
Despot and Drinker aren't even anti woke unless that stuff affects the quality of work/is clearly the motivation behind some terrible plot points or characterisation. If woke writers were just better writers it wouldn't even come up in their videos
It says a lot about how puritanical of a social bubble he's in too, to find the reeing about these things enough to sour the waters totally. I hate woke shit but I used to forgive HFMs woke takes because I liked his content.
I don't want to come off as saying he should stay in his lane. But he's a writer and world builder first, making a hit piece about other creators takes time, and a lot of research because if you get it wrong, you are not simply criticizing their creation, but them, their world view and people who agree with them.
I’m not surprised in the least. I used to watch his channel, back before he needed to be seen in every shot, there was a point where you could tell his popularity was getting to him.
His channel started gravitating to focusing on him and his thoughts were instead of just talking about the facts of writing, he needed to add his views. Eventually the videos became more and more about him just staring into a camera and talking. Once he started using bait and switch videos and shifting the focus to him, I left the channel.
Yeah, whenever someone starts talking more and more about themselves instead of the subject people click the video for, that's usually a warning sign that the person's ego has grown bloated and incapable of discussing anything through an objective lens.
It's a sign of a narcissist who thinks he's above it all, no matter how hard he tries to appear to be reasonable or kind.
I watched his magic system series and other creating advices. Sad to see he went to "I must insert politically charged comment" road :(.
It's sad to see isn't it, I had a similar experience with Jim Stirling years ago. Makes you wonder if they ever believed in the stuff they'd say back before they went crazy.
@@Vaguer_Weevil They only believe what gives them the attention they want, and what gets them invited to special events before everyone else.
Weirdly DJPeachCobbler did that transition better, he went from a slightly more nuanced video game reviewer with his little pie-man persona, to a crazy eyed dude looking into your soul while eating chalk and going on unhinged hour long rants on Roman and Aztec history that are only interrupted by schizo-tangents.
I honestly believe that this should be a main channel video, since anyone who DOES visit the channel because of HFM can be able to see your response and set the record straight.
I absolutely agree. This video would be a better fit for the main channel.
I agree, not that they would watch it for the most part.
Update: within 48 hours of this video going live, Hello Future Me has entirely cut the "Wokebros" section of his video. While Hello Future Me has not made a community post or other official statement regarding the change and/or addressing/apologizing to any of the creators he mentioned, he has replied in the comment section of the video; to paraphrase his replies, "I removed that section. While I think the topic is important, it didn't fit this video, the section as a whole had some problems, and it was causing me a lot of anxiety."
Y'know what irritates me the most about people like him? People like him who's morals are so weak that they can't ever stand by their own words. Even if the majority disagree with him, at the very least stand your ground if that's what you truly believe in.
This action alone says how sleazy and disingenuous he really is, more than his words ever could. What happened to all that confidence? He seemed pretty damn sure he was right about everything, even to insulting people right out the gate, only to quietly sweep it under the rug. Absolutely pathetic.
@@Vaguer_Weevil Or he could actually admit he was wrong.
The crazy thing is that literally every person on his list loved Arcane, and the vast majority (but, to be fair, not all) of them loved the Spider-verse movies.
@Opener73would they normally not be good?
@Opener73 implying Spider-Verse isn't good is actually a scientific sign of neurodegeneritive illness, please seek a doctor you may only have so long to live.
@Opener73arcane is a masterpiece no matter the spot
@Opener73 care to explain why?
I thought that the "cannon event" premise of the second Spider-verse movie was stupid. Multiverse stuff as a whole is kinda watering down all comic book movies. Animation is cool tho
He deleted an hour & half of the video that mentioned "woke bros"
Freakin coward he talked trash about them when they call him out he just delete it, and the "woke bros" will have an argument or just want to have a conservation with him if he just asks them. But he choose the coward way.
I agree. I haven’t subscribed to him for a while now I thought he was still doing his writing tips video with Avatar being 80% of reference for writers but I guess not lol.
Hello Future Me is lying about galadriel taking part in battles. She never did. She was very tall in stature, and that is all Tolkien meant by "Amazon". She was a magic user and had no need to battle physically.
Agreed. From what I understood by the quotes he brought on screen, I got the impression she could've (and apparently did) took the role as a commander. In the sense of a tactician; having an intimate understanding of warfare, making plans, giving orders and etc. But not an on-the-field frontline fighter - She didn't need to.
It also stated she "brought down the walls" - Which honestly sounds perfectly on track with her magical powers. Just like The Witch King basically "brought down the gates" during the siege of Minas Tirith; since he cast spells on the siege ram and weakened the gates with his powers. It's not like he walked over and just went all "Hulk Smash" on the darn thing with his mace.
Would have to look up the exact reference if you're interested, but there is one instance in the Silmarillion. During the first Kinslaying by Fëanor, Galadriel is said to have "taken part against him", fighting to defend her kin.
But that's all I can think of.
It wouldn't be out of character either. There is no such thing as a "magic user" in Tolkien's universe, like character classes in an rpg, it's fine for a millennia old elf to have learned to fight at some point during the multiple world wars she was engaged in.
@@Arphemius I'm actually fine with that too, but Tolkien clearly did emphasize things BESIDES martial ability, yet that's most of what she does in RoP. It'd be like, I dunno, Obi Wan, a master lightsaber duelist, mostly using a gun for no reason--he CAN use a gun, it's not impossible, but it's really not who he is.
@@billjacobs521 It's not quite equivalent, because there is no such thing as a magic combatant in LOTR. If they're fighting, they will always use weapons, usually swords. Gandalf has Glamdring, Sauron fights in a duel with Elendil and Gil-Galad,... If Galadriel were fighting in a wizard's duel, like Gandalf and Saruman, then maybe she would abstain form using a weapon, but against orcs? She also isn't yet as powerful and accomplished, she doesn't have her own kingdom, she is not yet a ringbearer and she's a few thousand years younger.
All in all, it's difficult to find a rational reason why she shouldn't fight orcs with a sword in hand.
I think, oddly, the Orc thing is worth addressing as an example, because I doubt anyone would've particularly cared had a bunch of imbeciles not made a big stink insisting that Orcs are "coded black" which is a ridiculous (and racist) position that seems to have been promoted seriously by extreme leftists (I only found out about it b/c EFAP justifiably mocked it).
Channels that comment on pop culture in general might be more inclined to look at depictions of Orcs with that context in mind, while channels more focused specifically on storytelling may not. Meanwhile, political channels, which are also included under this one silly umbrella, are also less likely to pay attention to the design of the Orcs, just like the story-focused channels, only for different reasons, but none of it matters, because HFM seems to make no effort to distinguish different types of channels from each other.
What do Matt Walsh or the Quartering have to do with media analysis or critique? What does a self described religious conservative like Shad have to do with liberal atheists who are not straight, like Just Some Guy or Platoon? What do 15 minute quick reviews have to do with hours long deep dive critiques? The only Venn diagram that would reasonably contain everyone catching strays here is "TH-camrs HFM has a bad opinion of."
I don't watch all the channels named or alluded to in this video, but every single one of these youtubers that I do watch has explained repeatedly, at length, why they find the way women and various minorities are depicted in recent mainstream media so lacking in comparison with the many, many previous depictions in older, better media, which they adore. It's easy to come in at the tail end of years long conversations about the state of media in general and pluck a sarcastic comment here, or half a statement there, and then point and say "SHAME!" but it's cheap and disingenuous.
Speaking of cheap and disingenuous, how about assuming the audience is made up of mindless (young male) sheep? I happen to be a reasonably well educated middle aged woman and HFM's incoherent, unsubstantiated rant has turned me away from ever wanting to watch his stuff again. I did, however, discover RFT, and am looking forward to digging in, so that's something, at least.
I'm pretty sure The Hobbit's two main Orc antagonists are also white, or "pale".
It's especially absurd since the actual cultural "coding" on Orcs was and really has always been The Mongols. It really speaks to their literal black and white frame of thinking and total historical illiteracy that they could reach that conclusion at all.
Also worth noting that the orcs in the LotR trilogy came in a variety of skin tones, making their uniformity of hue in RoP more conspicuous in comparison, if one is paying attention to that sort of thing.
For what it's worth, Tolkien himself described orcs as sallow, if memory serves.
I'm not sure if that's where it started but I believe this mindset started cropping up when the channel Extra Credits compared orcs to.. uhh folk with darker tones.. Just avoiding the bots there.. So it makes sense why people would notice such a drastic change to the orcs here, but of course extremists then take an issue for noticing said drastic change and it's just exhausting to hear these people screeching. It never ends.
Actually you got it completely wrong. The idea with orcs is that they are sapient beings who are nonetheless born evil and incapable of growth or change. The entire idea that matter might conquer mind was taken by some stupid leftists to affirm the general position of biological determinism and therefore racism.
A bunch of imbeciles on the right who are so unfathomably idiotic that they don't understand what analogies are simply said, "So you're saying orcs are black people!?" and ran with that narrative.
EFAP rightly pointed out the flaws in the former argument and managed to avoid being taken in by the narrative of the latter. Because the rightwingers in their audience are still too idiotic to get it, they did not even understand that EFAP didn't agree with them either.
I'm a subscriber to HFM, as well as Critical Drinker, and HFM does not do himself any favours in this video. I think the thing that grates is the sneering condescension, coupled with the idea that a best-selling multi-book author can't understand media as well as he can. Furthermore, his analysis of the series is remarkably similar to most of the critics he complains about, but not as harsh.
It's fascinating that he seems to have done very little research into the critics either, given that Little Platoon is gay, and Drinker's recommended several shows/films that could be seen as 'woke', such as Arcane and Blue-Eyed Samurai.
I was thinking the same thing. HFM seemed to cover topics that were also criticized in detail by the so-called "woke bros" and his video was actually pretty good until he started that section about them.
And yeah, at the point he said that the woke bros hate women and the LGBT community is where he lost me. The Little Platoon is openly gay and Critical Drinker has recommended movies like Prey, Arcane and often loves to talk about Ripley. HFM was clearly over generalizing.
I genuinely dont think he knows those things about anyone on the list. I honestly think he saw nerdrotic, and assumed everyone else was all the same because they do podcasts together. JSG also considers himself a lefty if I recall correctly, and attacks the right in his videos as well.
I don’t subscribe but have generally liked his videos that I’ve seen. I was disappointed as well. If you disagree with them, that’s fine. I watch most of them and I think they do go over the top at times with the woke thing. Considering platoon and RFT were included tells me he didn’t research this at all. If it was just AZ, Shad, and Gary then he’d have a better argument. Thats not a shot because I like those guys but they’ve definitely found their niche of anti-woke and that’s mostly their focus. I agree that he was very condescending. I get tired of this sort of elitist attitude that if you disagree with how I view things, you must be dishonest. It’s a very arrogant mindset to think that people couldn’t possibly disagree with you. It’s when worse to assume malice rather than ignorance. It’s also elitist to view people as so stupid that they can’t possibly know what content is best for them. They need hello future me to tell them what’s good or those poor dummies could get hurt. Maybe it’s the libertarian in me but I get so tired of this nanny state mentality in everything.
@@joshcowart2446 I'm in complete agreement with you there. The elitist "we know better than you little viewer, and certainly better than *those* people" attitude chafes something chronic. Ironically, the call to expand beyond the echo chamber masks the call to actually enter their echo chamber.
As with all commentary and analysis, particularly on the Internet, the maxim of 'caveat emptor' applies.
I could've missed it, but I never heard HFM ask why people were attracted to these 'Woke Bros', and why they have such large, successful audiences.
He also showed Just Some Guy's avatar multiple times. JSG is a bisexual black man who takes any excuse he can to drag the right in his comic reviews, apt or not. He speaks Tolkien's elvish and rereads the books every year to boot!
I like that he accused all the reputable, actually skilled and knowledgable reviewers and critics of all sorts of underhanded and dishonest actions and yet never supported any of his claims with evidence such as video clips or direct quotes. Thats the mark of a good and honest argument. Wild and unsubstantiated accusations.
Isn't the segment full of clips?
@@CassianStone Clips taken out of context, as well as many of their more objectionable takes. Its still not fair to represent them, regardless of whether you object to their beliefs or not.
@@Mariodash23 Which context for which clip was missing? They seemed fairly clear in their intent.
@@CassianStone If you watch THIS video, RFT actually gives some examples. But I agree it was hilarious he said "No clips or direct quotes" which proves he also didn't watch the video.
@@billjacobs521 I have to admit, I didn't see all of it, but I was a bit confused when RFT says "Critical Drinker is being taken out of context", but then didn't actually explain what was being taken out of context or where. I am genuinely curious, because I enjoy HFM's content and if he was being genuinely deceitful, instead of just making bad faith assumptions, I would very much like to know. I do not, however, want to spend 2 hours watching the entire video, if it's not too much to ask, could you give me an example of him taking someone out of context? I know it seems a bit unfair to ask that, when I could watch the video myself, but you do seem relatively well in the know.
Fun fact: Hello future me cut the whole "woke-bros" section out of the review.
You might be just some rando film talker, but your response videos are quite potent.
I love how HFM's explanation for removing the section is "I was in a bad place, I care a lot about men's mental health, and it didn't really fit with the video's message anyway" and not the fact that he, y'know, accused an openly gay man of being homophobic over Rings of Power, or that he conflated a wide pool of critics with his two biggest pet peeves (IE: Drinker and Shad).
Didn’t he say he had talked with Platoon?
@@edwardreed67 At the time of my comment that was what HFM had said to people asking about the cut section in his own video. If there's been more said since then, or on some other platform, I wouldn't know.
@@edwardreed67 did he really?
@@edwardreed67 He did, so I was initially encouraged, but then I saw LP's account of their interaction: "I left a snarky comment on the video, which was deleted"
My politics are not politics. My politics are the correct way to think.
Your politics are an agenda.
O Tim, what are the Killer Rabbit's politics?
"My politics are the correct way to think"
Oh boy.
How fucking cringe
Exactly. People always think their position is the normal one, even when (perhaps especially when) they're well outside any kind of baseline of the average.
lmao. objectivism ladies and gentlemen.
I love that in his list of political enemies that are "right wing anti lgbt" he includes a black guy who multiple time purged his right wing subscribers by telling them to f* off with their bigotery, a gay guy, and a guy who hasn't even remotely touched on politics
I've seen a lot of Despot of Atrim and he is very knowledgeable of history and rips 'historical' TV shows and movies a new one with excellent wit.
I think it was him who did a comparison of Rings of power to Schindler's list wherein he details how the orc captain (and antagonist?) is more like Schindler and Galadriel was more like the sadistic camp commander. A very original and entertaining viewpoint.
Hello Future Me couldn’t respond to Despot calling guyladriel a villain because he knew it would be impossible to refute
@@OrangePikmin-cv9ui The thread of Galadriel being a villain/bad person is one of the more consistent plot threads in the show. If the characters reacted more appropriately, it could be genuinely good material.
I am so glad one of the channels he called out is actually doing a thorough pushback on his claims. Because Ill admit some of it did make me pause for thought, do a little introspective analysis on perhaps my own echo chamber, but the largest segment of the video is devoted to denegrating and undermining these channels with such insistence and surety that I couldnt help but wonder "couldn't everything youre saying about *them* ALSO be said of you or your political tribe? Is it possible that you also so deep in your echo chamber that everyone who criticizes it is perceived as toxic and hateful?"
Im only 4 minutes it, but I'm strapping in for all 108 of them, RFT!
I think you're in a good place if you're somewhere in the middle. You agree with him sometimes and sometimes he goes too far. Just like the "woke bros", they also have a point sometimes and other times go too far.
Middle of the road means you're still thinking for yourself right?
It's very simple to check yourself. Are you agree on ALL terms? Or only on certain points?
If the latter is true than you are good. For example I like shad but I don't agree with him on every point. Same with Az, he is passionate but it can get a bit much for me at times.
@richardduska1558 I'm of the same regard for some of the very right-wing commentators (especially those that lean into their religious bias/faith, because I don't share their beliefs), but that doesn't detract from the fact that a LOT of their points are valid, especially with how long I've been paying attention to it, and if there is one thing I've consistently noticed, ever since the original GamerGate like 10 years ago: whenever any of the woke/progressive ideals get called out, criticized, or even just scrutinized, the person doing the critique is labeled every single demeaning anti-left "ist & phobe" in the book so as to sully their reputation, poison the well, and encourage mobs of all kinds to suppress them.
I did keep my eye out for anything equivalent of this type of reaction from the right (or just the non-Left), and the only that measured up is the genuinely vehemently kooky fundamentalists (who seem to be withering away).
I don't know. At this point, it just feels pure gaslighting, like I'm being treated like the looney person when I'm noticing exactly what is happening.
@@Dabedidabe I think being middle of the road *usually* coincides with being fair and logical, but don't see too much into it. E.g. theoretically, if 99% of people are on one side, the fair and logical person will be on "the other side". It takes brain power to overrule tribalistic instincts, so just checking that you're middle of the road can be economical, but it's still worth occasionally checking that we're actually being fair and logical
“ these channels target young and vulnerable men”
Me, 37 years of age with a PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience, can DEFINITELY concur to that. The guy had us all brilliantly covered!
My 38 year old self with a MSc in developmental psychology concurs with your concurrence.
As a 32 year old with a law degree I am glad Hello Future Me is protecting me from wrong think and bad arguments.
54 year old woman, not young, vulnerable or male
@@TurielD Sorry but sounds to me like you fit the discription quite well.
Me, 60 years of age, having studied physics and archaeology in Berlin 35 years ago. He sure got me there! ;)
The person I'd equate you to most in terms of political leaning is Mauler, I don't know what your politics are and I don't care. You're focused on the story and nothing else, even if you do bring up politics in your coverage you really only do it to understand the story more as it might be the writer's intention.
I'd say he's more of a Rag's then a Mauler, you can get *some* his politics they just affect his quality judgments
To be fair, him and MauLer could be polar opposites politically, and we wouldn't know.
Which is remarkably refreshing.
So if a critic comments on politics inserted into media, somehow it's the critic being political and not the filmmaker? What a hypocritical joke.
Or just because a critic reviews something politically charged unfavourably. You're not even allowed to dislike something that agrees with these people's politics without them seeing it as an attack on their very being. Absolutely delusional.
@@plebisMaximus Everything you said is made up.
If a critic is commenting on "politics" that hasn't been "inserted into the media," then that makes the critic a liar who lies to make things seem political. The Little Mermaid being played by a black actress is not political in any way. You are a racist if you think black people being in movies is "political."
If a critic's entire identity revolves around rooting out a specific concept from every piece of media they touch then yes, it's the critic being political. The nice thing about politics is that it's all just defensible word babble so you can divine a "woke" or "anti-woke" or "political" stance from anything as long as you're willing to put in the work. Kinda like how Cinemasins just puts points on the board to flesh out the score. People are making money from, and designing their identities around, their commentary careers. Expecting anything from the whole endeavor but an ouroboros of outrage is missing the entire point
@@normalgraham if a filmmakers stated intention is to insert their politics and push their agenda then their agenda and their politics will be included in the criticism of the work. I'm really Unsure how you don't grasp that concept. Actually I do know how you can't it's because you don't want to.
I'm at 1:26:42 and HFM has completely failed to mention the multiple movies and shows that have superficially woke aspects that the majority of the "woke bros" have lauded as incredible examples of storytelling. He is currently pretending that someone like Critical drinker would have hated Arwen in the Jackson Trilogy when Critical drinker had nothing but praise for the character work in Blue Eye Samurai and Arcane, both of which are far more reasonably considered "girl boss" stories than anything that was in Lord of the Rings.
You are right to point out that there will always be people who scream at false positives but the majority of the people he's citing here, Critical Drinker in particular, have a proven track record of spotting great writing regardless of gender and hair color. Hell, Drinker wrote a book that heavily features a girl-boss.
"Regardless of gender and hair colour." Okay, that made me laugh.
Its less that and more that critical drinker knows that he cant spin good shows/movies as "feminist trash" because to many people find the movie good.
He only points out "wokeness" when something isnt super popular while ignoring the instances in actually popular media
@andrewpotts7952 are you implying that marvel movies and disney star wars movies arent popular? Because he hates those
I've seen commenters on his video claim the "Woke Bros" ignoring the "woke elements" of HOTD "proves" they are disingenuous. I tried to explain that having black characters isn't "woke" but I don't think I got through
So they think adding a black character instantly makes something "woke"?... What? How do you get your brain to think that- no, that's just... What? I think I've lost a brain cell because of that.
(By his video do you mean Hello Future Me's video? I only ask because I've been a fan of his stuff for helping me with writing that's all... I don't know why I added this, sorry XD)
RFT I was one of the commentators caling out Hello Future Me on his video - I found it to be in incredibly bad faith especially regarding you. Keep up the good work mate, your analysis is fantastic.
I got the impression from Hello Future Me's video that he views wokeness only in its charicature version, and is unable to see its more subtle expressions, like Miriel, Galadriel and Village girl being made de facto leaders of the Numenor-South Land alliance, without doing anything resembling of leadership leading up to that moment
4 hour review of RoP but 110 minutes of it is ranting about people who don't share his political views?
By all accounts, it doesn't make any sense.
"Wokism" doesn't.
Well, I trust Kronk way more than Hello future me, so..
P.S. on my second listen, just the amount of hypocrisy, misrepresentation and disingenuousness is off the charts. He really let the mask slip on this one. Such a shame.
disingenuity?
Ngl was kind of suprise Efap wasn't mentioned
Either he didn't know about the podcast (like i did until recently), or he knew that if he did, he'd have a higher chance of having a 4 hour video (tbf they'd probably only criticise his rant) be criticised for a minute on every few seconds
Well he knows he'd be outnumbered if they retaliated, and his morals aren't strong enough to handle one person pushing back, let alone like six of them at once.
Shoutout to that one guy who tried to paint Mauler as a bigot and then got upset that he wasn’t homophobic
His inability to recognize what drinker calls the Message really displays his lack of pattern recognition. It's so mainstream that South Park recognized it.
To be fair, South Park is on a whole different level of understanding of things than most people.
It's not even pattern recognition man, they openly tell us what their goal is and how they are doing it. No crystal ball needed.
I think he does see "the message" but since he agrees with it, he'd just describe it as movies adapting to modern times.
But can’t pattern recognition be generalising though? It’s like all those conspiracy theories about the pyramids and aliens and things, just because there looks like there is a pattern doesn’t mean that there is.
@edwardreed67 Sure, but we aren't talking about common designs across the world, we are talking about a fairly tightly knit community that historically has been trapped in an ideological and socioeconomic bubble.
Hello Future Me deleted that entire section of video. I only knew it existed via internet gossip that caused me to seek this response video out. The part of the video that remains up is so reasonable and fair, and such a sharp contrast to the second half. On the bright side I learned about your channel.
If you haven't watched RFT's videos on Arcane, and like the show - I highly recommend you check it out!
It's a breath of fresh air listening to someone explaining in 'autistic detail', to use that phrase, as to why a show is great as opposed to bad.
I think when people call stuff woke, I think it often refers to the priority of progressive messaging over good storytelling or respect for the craft in general. I've heard that Arcane has some progressive elements (I haven't seen it yet) yet the "Woke Bros" like it. Because it is apparently quite good. People point out politics because they took precedent over quality control.
Oh Arcane definitely has woke elements, but it's so well written that I don't care. The elements are not the main part of the story. Definitely give it a watch it's so good.
@@Techsupport243 I'd say progressive rather than woke, but yeah.
@@Angrenost02 I would never call woke progressive. If anything woke is regressive. Progressive is a positive term. There is nothing positive about woke ideology.
Edited clarity.
@@Techsupport243 I agree, which is why I think Arcane has progressive elements, not woke.
@@Angrenost02Completely agree. The world of Arcane is a mess and it's amazing. I would have never have watched it if it wasn't for a lot of the people HFM is incompetently calling out. Their recommendations got me to look past that it was based on league of legends.
Imagine thinking someone like Platoon is unfamiliar with Tolkien’s work 😂😂😂
Platoon in particular seems incredibly knowledgeable.
I think most of my knowledge of the series came from Platoon, as someone who's never read the books or watched the movies. It's helped me understand and appreciate the medieval fantasy genre overall actually.
This dude obviously hasn't bothered to watch any of Platoon's content.
Or that Platoon might be homophobic, lol
@@Jamie_E_Pritchardthats the funniest fucking shit given how Lp has made it clear he is, in his own words “practically gay”
It's funny that this comes out on the heels of your Arcane review, since that show pretty much dispels a lot of his claims about these creators.
If you just "hated" ideas like stong women or LGBTQ representation, then there is no way in hell you would be making multi-hour positive reviews where those ideas weren't warped to be portrayed in a negative light. It's almost as if the criticism is of the execution, not the ideas themselves.
One has to wonder if he even clicked on your channel to see the first part of your Arcane review, of if he just searched "Rings if Power review" and jotted everyone he saw down in a Google doc.
I'm not even sure he did that. A bunch of the critics he highlighted are just the usual lineup on drinker's podcast.
The fact that he included Just Some Guy is a dead giveaway.
GUYS!!! HELLO FUTURE ME JUST CUT THE SECOND HALF OF THE VIDEO!!! (pointing and laughing)
People like HFM are legit scumbag he think because certain people doesn't share the same view as him they are horrible people that want to silent anyone for having a different opinion even thought the "woke bros" will want to have a civil discussing with him if he just ask them
Ralph the movie maker made a video about joker where he sarcastically whined a bunch about people who disagreed with him and I unsubscribed from overly sarcastic productions because of reds constant smug assumptions about what I believed.
What a joke, hello future me cameoed on overanalysing avatar once and his reasoning was so bad it made me cringe. Good to know my instinct about him was right.
Oh god he was on Overanalyzing? This is news to me, but i'm assuming this was during one of OA's legend of Korra episode reviews, I stopped watching OA when he started covering Korra because i find that show insufferable and would rather just stick to E;R's korra reviews.
@@Slender_Man_186 It's siege of the north part 1, at the end of OG avatar season 1.
Don't judge OA too harshly, I think he is definitely over-generous to Korra but I don't think he's particularly unreasonable about it.
I unsubscribed for similar things
LOL! HFM's only gone and erased the whole wokebros section in his video.
A man of conviction, I see!
I'm told it is still up on Nebula - if true, that is the most cowardly action possible
Edit: I am being told this is not true
@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 Saw one of HFM's replies to the removal.
'Hey everyone - I ended up removing the "wokebros" section of the video because: [1] while my central message around men's mental health and masculinity is vital, and I will continue to talk about men's issues and how men get caught up in this stuff, I want my channel to be a positive place, and I don't feel I lived up to that in the best way I could in that secti9n, and [2] frankly, I have not been dealing with this video mentally very well from the day it dropped.
'Hope you all understand.
'~Tim'
Don't know about you but, to quote one of TCD's preferred clips: 'ah, yes, that's definitely shite.'
@@Natusian As an edit to my above statement, I'm being told that it was a lie - this part has been removed from Nebula. I still think it is cowardly to remove it at all - stand by what you say, or amend it to admit your wrongs. Don't hide behind "oh, I don't feel good about being called out."
Kinda funny how Hello Future Me didn't bring up any of the other female commentators that had negative reviews on Barbie 🤔
He sort of did with Shad, because his wife is the one that did more than half of the review. But I'm not sure he even watched the video.
These more Left leaning, oh so pro-feminist, commentators frequently try to erase women who don't agree with them.
Then he should've looked into JLongbone's review of Barbie. But then yet again she's below his radar.
@@pressedv3017Or Baggage Claim and Nutsa.
1:43:37 HFM shows his hand here. “Their warped view of society is getting in the way of [media criticism].”
He does not like the worldview of the “Woke Bros,” therefore they cannot be good media critics.
Not only has HFM lumped people with very different worldviews together under a collective ideological banner (Shad and RFT cannot possibly be taken to have the same worldview, for example), but he’s also taken a handful of their clips and applied the composition fallacy to claim that he’s proven the whole coven of “woke bros” to be arguing in bad faith.
Why can’t the man just say he despises them for having a different worldview, and leave it at that?
Whats funny is that in the review section of HFM's video he absolutely tears most of RoP to shreds, praises a couple of scenes, then calls it mediocre instead of bad/terrible. I get the feeling he only called it mediocre to not be lumped in with the 'wokebro' and so he could launch into his badly researched and ill thought out attack on other youtubers.
He also accuses those he's attacking of making up nefarious political intent in the media they criticise, while doing exactly the same thing to those he's attacking. What a shame, it was the first video of his i had seen and it fell off a cliff after the actual review finished.
His video is reading like its going off an NPC script. These people target "young and vulnerable men." What? He's decided all their intent and machinations using conspiracy logic
The comspiracy logic continues when he says they do this as a trojan horse when they're explicit that all these are criticisms they hold
It comes across like HFM suddenly flipped his video into a hit job against these other channels in order to place himself at the tippy-top of Moral Mountain, which is childish. He's 2 years late to the RoP party, and it seems like he's attacking others to get his video/channel at the top of the algorithm.
@@Truffle_Pup part of the reason he's 2 years late is because he was afraid of being associated with these people he views as megamind conspiracy theorists
@@AjayRiver Which means this could've been something that's been brewing for all that time.
In that case, perhaps this is a situation where he'd been bottling up resentment and frustration over certain, generally popular opinions that he felt were just covers for people to deliver their political views to their audience. Maybe he wouldn't have said any of this normally, but as he felt increasingly isolated in his perspective of the situation, it eventually led him to doing something he wouldn't normally do: target individual creators in order to make himself feel more validated and less alone in his feelings. In his emotional state, he compiled a list of people he SUSPECTED to be conspirators, but didn't bother to fact check or reconsider his decision (which is, of course, extremely irresponsible). Leading to all this..
That's my theory, at least. All I can really do is hope he doesn't continue going down this direction, because I actually really enjoyed his videos over the years.
I stopped watching HFM a couple of years ago, and it was just because his videos were so milquetoste and bland, and Mauler and Efap were rising and invigorating the long form content. Long man good.
Just by including JustSomeGuy within the "wokebros" immediately showed me that this guy had done zero to no research.
Yeah he straight up ripped Matt Walsh for doing the same shit he calls out leftists for
I loathe people like Hello future me, they genuinely believe themselves to be "the good guys" and when they think people are on a different side or political view to them (even if those people aren't) they consider it perfectly acceptable to slander, insult and lie. Because as far as they are concerned "I'm the good guy, they are the bad guy, anything I do to them is justified."
It’s hubris mixed with a lack of self awareness that’s a scary problem. And HFM clearly doesn’t realize this. Drinker and the others aren’t perfect but there’s a reason why they have such a huge following. The craft and storytelling out of modern Hollywood in recent has been horrendous. And when paired with on the nose, partisan messages; it makes it worse. Like sludge topped with urine( I apologize for those who are eating). It’s funny because I’ve seen folks call me right leaning mysognist, sexist etc. but I’m far from that. I’m center left. And I loved Arcane and Blue Eye Samurai. All in all, I dislike these types who hide behind toxic positivity and want to scarlet letter their enemies. They are no better than the folks they claim to hate.
Yeah I agree. I haven't seen HFM's videos, but from the clips Charlie has used in this, it seems his RoP video turns into an out-and-out hit job on all these other channels in order to put himself on top of the moral mountain. What a dickhead lol.
@@Avarn388 Blue Eye Samurai is so sick. Well written, great VA's, great art, great action, great intrigue... One of my favourite shows of last year. I will admit, even in the first scene when I figured out Mizu is definitely a woman, ashamedly I did roll me eyes thinking "here we go again", but Wow was I wrong. It's just an awesome story and can't wait for season 2.
In regards to how he's reasoning he's no better than a conspiracy theorist saying that they are being secretive with what they believe and sneaking it in
@@Avarn388 I completely agree. I'm left leaning too, but I've been called "far right", simply because I support people like Drinker.
Ill be honest I bet the main motivation for him being critical of these creators is because he is also being critical of the show and so risked being lumped in with them and so made this to preemptively say "Don't worry I am still woke."
@JasperLane If that’s the case, it makes him more pathetic. Any reasonable person can see ROP sucked and you don’t need to even talk about political elements or anything social. It’s horrendously written, shot etc. but leave it to these terminal ideologies to be so dogmatic in thinking even agreeing with their “enemies” ( even if for different reasons) is somehow association.
@@Avarn388 Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend him. I said it specifically to show how much of an ass hat he is
I think that’s a little disingenuous. Drinker at multiple times for example has called out reviewers, that, whilst he agrees them ideologically, have taken things too far in lacking in self awareness. Take his South Park review
"We listen to people we disagree with", my entire thought process as I watched this and have been massively enjoying your Arcane videos. It's extra funny cause I agree with some points and at the very least the theory of "there are bad actors who push an agenda first and care about quality second". It has always been true that some people care about their politics more than well crafted media. It does not mean that an criticism that aligns to a political ideology is inherently bad criticism, if anything it is very telling of the critic which helps the viewer understand biases.
As many have noted, this last part of HFM's review is completely unacceptable. It is hypocritical at best and manipulative at worst to make all these assumptions and accusations.
Where would we even start to deconstruct this mess? Why is everyone that angrily or emotionally criticizes the show supposed to be some neo-conservative anti-woke shill? People have deservedly rejected this abhorrent amalgamation of Tolkien distortions and that's fair and correct. It is evident, even by media illiterate children that this show is bad. Some of the costumes are bad, the writing is awful, the heroes are villainous or buffoons, the dialogue is just straight up meme material and the LoR canon is actively attacked.
Putting aside the politics, should i not listen to anything "the other side" has to say? Even if it is valid? I am currently and always has been checking myself, to see if i have been absorbed by an echo chamber and have turned to radicalisation. But I don't think this is the best or even a half-competent way to go about this. What, should i accept the vilification of "anti-woke" creators and people that share their beliefs? For what? Does that not only fuel polarization and build up this gender, race, sexuality, political or whatever else have you war? I will not be complicit in this.
For the record, and I don't mind anyone hating on me for my beliefs, I consider myself to be somewhat progressive. I believe in equal rights for all people, be they women, LGBTQ+ or men, black, white, asian, mexican, ALL PEOPLE. And since I have been on this essay formated media critic side of TH-cam for some time now it seems to me that HFM is having a very bad faith argument right here. I have been subbed to him for a long time, and I considered him thorough and professional when it came to his research as well as his opinions. The opposite can be seen here. You cannot lump all these channels up into a neat camp of hateful bigots. Even if I personally have grown tired of Shad's commentary and maybe the critical's drinker because of the politics, that does not mean I can completely disregard their opinion or criticisms when they are accurate.
On the other side your channel and the little platoon for example are ALWAYS in depth. Can there be a miniscule amount of jokes? Sure. Do we have to agree or laugh at them every time? No, to each their own. But it is incredibly disingenuous to proclaime that this channel or little platoon do shallow reviews only to attack the creators for some underlying political agenda. I believe that these two channels AT LEAST love Tolkien and are ver frustrated with RoP.
On an endnote I will give my insight on the despot. Here's a channel that I believe perfectly encapsulates the problem with HFM's assertions in his review. Despot will NEVER shy away from his personal beliefs or politics, but he also ALWAYS provides useful insight or knowledge of the creative process. These two are NOT mutually exclusive. I can disagree with his personal beliefs but I can agree with the concrete information he provides. Screw that, I can LAUGH at his jokes, be they offensive or not, EVEN if we disagree. Because as with the Little Platoon, they both are very articulate and seem to have a knack for masterfully using language to construct a very nice and tight joke. We are not forced to watch them, or are led to trap while innocently looking for a RoP review. We are not illiterate. I might CHOOSE to continue watching because of the great script, the valid points the very much needed cold-hard criticism and also for catharsis. Yes, although it may seem an inadequate reason to watch a video, the feeling of retribution or catharsis we might get from someone hating or liking the same media as we do is immeasurably euphoric.
Some of these people you, or whoever else, might think they are some dumb angry nerdy anti-woke bigots. But I think that's very unfair and also very rude as some of them put as much if not more effort into their work as HFM. As other commenters have pointed out, it really feels like fear-morgering, which I guess is done by everyone of any political leaning at some point in time. That however doesn't make it right. I wouldn't stand for it if conservatives proclaimed that gays or jews, or whatever else strawman you can imagine, are taking over and corrupting the youth. Equally, I will not stand for a progressive to suggest that supposedly conservative channels are hatebombing current media because they have empowered women or black elves or homosexual depictions.
Sometimes a show is bad. That show is tarnishing something I hold very dear to me and is of great quality. I ,as anyone would, feel entitled to get angry with all that wasted budget on a complete turd. Seeing people explain the reasons for that dissatisfaction better than I can, scratches an itch. It feels, again, cathartic. I don't have to agree with their politics, everyone has their own. I don't have to laugh at their jokes. I can just enjoy the deep dive and nitpicking.
(the argument i make below is considered discriminatory and really - it is not but it shows what their values are. they are not global values - they are american values)
To a non-American the casting in these shows is incredibly strange and immersion breaking because they come in all shapes, sizes and ethnicities in every single group. However the rational man will point out immediately that this fictional world Tolkien presents is not a global one, hence having American levels of population diversity is just unreasonable. There are no trade ports receiving goods and merchants from the other side of the world in this setting. And to get from one point to another on the map takes a long while. I would just actually argue that there would be more diversity, if they didn't cast Africans, Asians, Caucasians and mixed people together as if they all belonged.
Fact is in a non-global world there are ethnic boundaries. Regions where people will have their own cultures and look like they belong. What you got in Rings of Power is the Americanized version of Middle Earth. Well, they even use some of the American political talking points too sometimes.. like.. Elves taking your jobs... They took yer jewb..
It's not discriminatory to point this out. It's the truth. It is fiction sure, but fiction has rules or else it becomes bad fiction. Usually fiction borrows its rules from reality unless otherwise mentioned.
@@whitegoose2017 I appreciate you taking the time to express some of your own thoughts. I feel I am required to respond to them with my own. Although I think this is the respectful thing to do, I am in no way trying to open up a debate. This is nothing more than a good faith, honest conversation.
After reading your comment, I have but two things to say:
1) it seems that the casting choice is of utmost importance to you in strengthening the believability of Tolkien's fictional world, in other words your immersion in the story and world building. I have to admit, I am rather lenient when it comes to casting, as long as the acting is good and some basic key characteristics are in line, you'll hear no complaint from me. By basic key characteristics, I am refering to the obvious limitations when depicting the different races of middle earth. I wouldn't take a 6' foot man to play a hobbit, the same way a midget couldn't play a high elf. In that sense, the ethnicity of the actor, or their skin colour for that matter, matters little, except in the cases where it impedes on the organic and harmonious blending with their environment. In so, you would be correct to point out that a darker than coal black man wouldn't be normal to, let's say, be siblings with a white man who's as pale as snow. I also agree with you that time and space matters when we try to understand topographic external characteristic. If we are to agree that Tolkien's world is loosely based off of west-northern medieval Europe, it would be quite dramatic to suddenly see a mix of all the world's ethnicities living under the same roof, as you would see in the States today. I don't personally mind diversity, I don't have any hairs to split with african, asian, middle eastern or american men and women living in Europe together. But I can understand how it might break immersion for some, in the same way that seeing a black woman in Mulan would be distracting or a white guy living together with an african tribe in 2000BC wouldn't really make much sense. It has to do with time and place, not with the rejection of diversity in and of itself. There are ofc some that argue against the literal parallelism of Middle Earth with west-northern medieval Europe, and on the grounds of fiction it becomes extremely difficult to agree on this. I'm not a Tolkien scholar so I'm not familiar with his views on the matter of casting and realism in his story, but I'll leave it at that since this is hardly a productive debate. Some people are distracted by diverse casting, others are not, my issues lay with a reimagining of older media and the brute force changes we see in casting, take for example the newer live action of The Little Mermaid. In the beloved animated version she was drawn as white, in the live action they chose to cast a black woman (terrible acting btw). That to me is of bigger concern, than say the plausibility of darker skin tones in Middle Earth. Changing the depiction of already established characters is something that I will not stand for. And of course, as you pointed out, there are more organic ways to diversify the casting, by let's say writing new characters with proper world building and backstory that would explain their particular diversity (like your city-port example that would excuse a diverse citizenry).
2) My second point has to do with the particularities of race and skin colour when it comes to the USA. I wholeheartedly agree, that for any non-american like myself, their understanding of diversity is a bit...weird? At least interesting. I can't find any other country that unironically groups up people based on their skin colour, or doesn't make any effort to differentiate between skin colour and skin tone. It boggles my mind. From an American POV, someone from the Mediterranean and someone from Scandinavia would be both considered "white". How does that work? Yes we're both Europeans in a sense, but you can't erase all other cultural and genetic differences based on the fact that you think we both look "white". Even in the same country, even with homogeneity, you would still find anywhere from pale to pink to olive skined to tanned. One has blonde hair blue eyes, the other dark brown eyes and hair. One is hairy the other is not, one has a big nose the other doesn't. But they're all the same countrymen. They were all born and raised in the same country, with the same traditions and cultural. But in the eyes of an american one would be "a true European/Caucasian" and the other would be an Arab of some sort. There is so much diversity on each continent of the world, but it is simply reduced to stupid colours like white, black, yellow and brown. Even in Europe there are so many differences between so many peoples like Francs, Slavs, Anglo-Saxons, German, Celtics, Balkans, Scandinavian, Spanish, Italian, so on and so forth. It is utterly ridiculous. Even in medieval Europe, you would expect the aristocracy to look extremely white in comparison to the average plebeian due to their different diets and lifestyles, one working under the sun day after day, the other never even letting a single sun ray touch their skin. A European might see this reflected on the casting and accept it for what it is, but Americans will proudly proclaim how proud they are of their diverse casting. Like what? Is the aristocrat Caucasian/white but the plebeian Black/tanned? When they come from the same place, grew in the same place and live on the same place, for ages? I think this obsession with skin colour and race is rather unproductive, not to say disappointing and takes a lot of time, money and energy. I think it strips creativity and handles the audience like they're little children with no understanding of the world, of differences/actual real diversity and of true identity, not just the colour of your skin.
To end this very long essay, I'm not particularly against "diverse" casting, but I will not accept the sloppy, boring and weirdly immature handling of it by some American producers. Time and place as well as historical background SHOULD be considered and should be taken as seriously as diversity, all of these components are NOT mutually exclusive, but complementary and work best in tandem with each other. Finally, for the love of god, stop making sequel after sequel, stop letting AI write your script or do your visual effects, and stop REMAKING older media. Just make something new that's good, that's all everybody's asking.
@@antonypastrikos7036 Yeah I don't want to debate either. I think that because we both already have different ideas regarding as to what is culture, what is ethnicity and so on compared to the American value system that debate would just be pointless, because we would mostly agree.
However Americans cannot express themselves as we can because we don't have a cultural stigma attached to these types of conversations.
But alas I think that the problem is kind of obvious: the American cosmopolitan culture.
That's what is wrong with Rings of Power. Once you see it you can't unsee it.
And yes I AGREE SO MUCH. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THE UNKNOWABLE GODS I DON'T BELIEVE IN, DO NOT MAKE GLADIATOR 2... That story was FINISHED. No one asked for Gladiator 2..
In my experience with channels that try to give writing advice there are very few that are of any value. I am very picky because fundamentally anyone can do it, but very few give you something to actually keep in mind. Good example of this is Jed Herne who gives advice to beginning writers that they can actually use to get out of fanfiction level writing and improve on their own. While he does not go into the complications that can arise, he does a very good job of reminding you to stay on point instead of going off wildly and well beyond your skill level. His notes about structure are also very useful.... I am speaking from experience here.
Hello Future Me has always had very basic takes that anyone with eyes could tell you... as well as some pretty wild claims that make no sense at all, but seem right before you look deeper into the topic. Which is just his content. He's the guy who will give you the mainstream way of thinking most of the time without the experience of analytical ability to make it worth my or anyone else's time. That's how you get over million subs. It's easy digestible content that will not offend the smooth monkey brain but those who delved deeper than the surface can gain absolutely nothing of value.
When it comes to writing the fundamentals are what you can easily explain under an hour or so (like cause and effect. Yes it is basic but many movies fail even at that nowdays). When you go into more complicated stuff than it gets trickier since they depend on the situation so you don't have 1 answer.
I don't understand why he has done this. Future Me seems like a general good guy, had create videos about world building, very polite. I watched him for years, But I don't get why he did this, normally he is well researched and quite respectful. Does not get mixed into the political squabbles, I don't get why all of a sudden he decided to throw his hat into that ring.
Don't know how he does not see your reviews are very fair, you let the film or show be judged on it's own merits not by any connection to any other sources of lore, a fair shot in a vacuum. No politics are drawn in.
I say he went as far as doing all the things he claimed these other reviewers did, many of them had good points about how poor Rings of power was, some of them where also very strong Tolkien fans (like myself) so of course their reactions would be emotional and harsh. The other half of his video just seemed like a vailed attack on others about politics, using their criticism of ROPs as the cover story for his attack.
Yeah man. Watched him for years myself, very surprised and very off-putting for him to throw this in out of nowhere
@@jxw457 I mean why? Why go down this road to begin with, starting possible flame wars over what? Rings of Power the trash tv show. But now after thinking about it for a while, I noticed over the last few years HFM has slowly been slipping from none political to more left leaning in his videos, he even started to push it to a degree in some of his later world building videos. I do wonder if HFM himself might have fallen victim to someone manipulating him to become a political activist.
HFM is better than this, or was. I use to watch him to get away from the politics.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD I think he just let his mask slip on this one more than usual. He's always been a bit left of center but I never minded because he wasn't shoving it down our throats.. but yeah...
@@jxw457 Yeah he was but he always avoided attacking other TH-camrs. I just wonder why now? I do wonder if something in his private life changed or pushed him to do this?
Because he's a leftist NPC and he can't help himself.
I bet if you asked the man, he'd consider MauLer and the EFAP crew to be part of the wOkEbRoS as well, simply because they have dared to criticize what should never ever be criticized
There is a good chance Mauler and the EFAP boys will cover this video.... and DESTROY IT 😅
@@doctorsleep8766 I don't think so,
they're not mentioned directly,
it's more political than media focused,
the main video is 4 hours long, which translates to roughly 2 weeks Fap Time
@@lennynull-funf-zehn5416ehh they did a massive video when drinker got attacked before, almost all of these guys are their friends and often guests on the show
he doesn't, he has said he doesn't consider the efap guys the same, which just baffles me more on why tf he criticized people like RFT and little platoon.
Wouldn't he have just called out mauler if that was the case, I think I've heard mauler bring up politics one time in a video.
I don’t even like Just Some Guy like I used to because of instances of him being just as obnoxious and wrong/disingenuous about some of the same people Hello Future Me is targeting, but the man would rant in elvish during his Rings of Power videos and they were filled with book quotes for evidence. The man LOVES Tolkien’s writing and is not just an associated media fan.
JSG defended Cuties. Nuff said.
@@amusingmoose9924 🤢 One of the reasons I don’t like him anymore
I was also surprised you were on the list given how thorough your rings of power videos were.
Glad you are calling him out.
The difficult part about people who think they're "centrist" but are actually way more to the left than even they realize - because they've absorbed the larger progressive media messaging and internalized it - is that they cannot see how far away from normal they actually are. So when they accuse people who are more actually in the center of being, effectively more to the right of the center than they actually are, it largely stems from this lack of introspection. But worse, actually left-wing activists who comment on media also never admit to this.
You cannot really convince anyone of anything through debate. Particularly someone who refuses to introspect. And with so many dishonest bad actors in the space, there's especially no way to have a real conversation on this topic. The best you or anyone can really do is simply put out your own stuff and let the audience decide.
Well... the "good" news is centrists get demonised by both extremes, so you have be fully committed to nuance and anti-tribalism to continue calling yourself a centrist for any length of time
Agreed. You keep seeing the pattern; the extreme left does something with fanfare, and the "centrist" says nothing, but when most non-progressive leftists object to what was done, the "centrist" leaps into action to attack them while trying to claim they hate both sides equally and are totally not biased.
Most of those "good reviewers" he rattles off towards the 1:43:00 mark are either subtly left-leaning or rather blatantly left-leaning when giving their opinion on movies, so it seems it has a lot to do with what type of bias the creator is "infecting" young men with
It’s just one side of politics seeing the winds change and trying to shore up their audiences so they don’t get convinced by the other side. Overton window is shifting back a little to the center
Rather generalising, don’t you think?
@@mojorn8837 Considering the overton window has been forcibly moved to the left so much over the last 20 years, this shift *is* decidedly a rightward one, which does make noticing the vibe shift mean you are noticing a shift to the right accurately. But part of the problem with the media class trying so hard to hold onto the leftward lean of the overton window for so long is that a lot of people freak out waaaay too much about what is effectively, simple normalization to a mean.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe correct analysis. They are terrified of a return to old normals because it is a repudiation of the “arch of history” and them being on the right side of that arch in perpetuity. They see themselves through the eyes of the Marxist “man at the end of history.”
@@edwardreed67 I only know OSP, so can only speak on them, but yes they have unnecessary political messages in their videos. I also remember their tweet bemoaning the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action has replies filled with the judge's home addresses and calls for assassination. I asked if they would ask followers to follow the law, or at least just delete the tweet, but they did nothing. It's crazy to list them as exemplifying apolitical creators
I don't know how people reacted before the trailer, but i do know how terrible the promotions were. There were super fans (who most likely paid of) talked about the show and the only thing i remember about is, and i kid you not, one of the guy said that, he could fix Sauron. And then a video where Disa's actress instead of talk about the show she started talking about how great it is to be the first black female dwarf ever.
So, yeah, the promotions were terrible and focused on diversity therefor everyone called it woke and terrible.
One of those super-fans was later interviewed, asked what she thought of the show, but she hadn't watched it because she was watching House of the Dragon instead...! I cannot fathom the entitlement and lack of loyalty/gratitude... getting a sneak preview and being paid to talk about LOTR, seemingly because of your immutable characteristics, and not even bothering to watch the show on release, and then openly telling everyone that..! Anti-marketing
It seems like a common thread that middle-right youtubers respect the intelligence of their audiences and left-wing youtubers don't. If you watch content from the former, they encourage viewers to look at other perspectives, especially those that disagree with them, because they're confident in their beliefs and believe they can withstand criticism. But whenever the left-wing youtubers are addressing their viewers, it's all about how other youtubers are "brainwashing the masses" and how you have to be careful to avoid them for fear of poisoning your soft dough-like brain. I don't have any particular stance on this spectrum, but when one side is constantly urging you to not listen to the other, you have to wonder who's making the better points.
That is a bad faith argument on its own, man. Both middle-left and middle-right youtubers are mostly respectful. It's when you go further right or further left is when you find the crazy people. And yes, that's on either side.
Pretty much, right wing youtubers will actively show you first hand how insane someone like Vaush or Hasan Piker is, while left wing youtubers will demonize people as milquetoast as our favorite Gronk boy here for daring to call out the most hamfisted insertion of contemporary politics into a setting where it simply doesn't belong.
Ah yes, it's the guys who scream about woke mind viruses and tourist infiltrators with agendas that are respectful.
It is lopsided today, though
@@blinkachu5275 He's not saying far-right creators aren't whackjobs, he's saying they either actively encourage, or at least don't discourage, their audience's consumption of differing points of view.
This whole thing with Hello Future Me reminds me of the NeverKnowsBest situation that EFAP covered with PatricianTV and Creetosis.
Both creators randomly include whats essentially a hit piece on several TH-camrs in a video that had no reason to include such a section.
They provide the targets full channel names several times, take them out of context at many points, and have a very half-hearted disclaimer to not harras these people who they've claimed are manipulative, horrible, and loathsome in every conceivable way.
Its honestly sickening to see these creators who I had some respect for, devolve into drama baiting and attempting to sneakily send their audience to attack those they disagree with.
Unfortunately, many people in their comments section fall for these kind of "subtle" tactics because they trust these entertainers without taking any time to critically think about what's happening here.
I'm subscribed to HFM, but watching his take on RoP I think I will now unsubscribe. I am not a fan of some of these ytubers, but HFM sure found a lot of ways to not mention that RoP was "crap" while actually proving it is crap. So he lost my respect.
In the first half of his video he does nothing but mention that RoP isn't good. It's just that in the last half he's, what he assumes to be doing is targeting disingenuous takes.
He in no ways likes RoP nor thinks it's good writing based on the first 2.5 hours of the video he made.
To be fair to his point, hw said basically that "RoP is not good, but it's not teh worst thing ever nor is a piece of evil political propaganda." And he is right. The problem is when he starts the second point "These people are saying that RoP is a piece of evil political propaganda, so actually they are the ones doing evil political propaganda" and that's the part in which he is wrong.
People always say that if X came out today youtubers would complain that it's woke but the problem is that when the same thing gets adapted it gets change not to be offensive
we saw that with avatar, people have been saying for years that because of katara or toph the show would get called woke, and then the live action comes out and they deliberately cut stuff out to not be offensive, despite the cut stuff being part of the characters and their arcs
They also tried this with Bayonetta by saying feminists love her even though they used to hate Bayonetta for being too sexualized just like they hate Eve from Stellar Blade now. It's shifting the goal posts by accusing the other of doing the shifting.
I hate seeing this take so much I see red. it pops up all over instagram or many woke or progressive channels and not once do they ever do anything to back it up or do any and all research to see that no, we would NOT call Terminator or Star Wars woke if they came out because they weren’t preachy horribly written crap.
I've watched Hello Future Me's video and while I don't think he's wrong all the time, he clearly didn't watch your videos.
What I found interesting though, is that a few years ago there was a big discussion about orcs in DnD being coded black and everything bad about orcs was automatically racist.
And while I don't remember The Drinker talking about it, I remember Shad being pretty outspokenly against it. And just for the record, I would agree that it's a bad faith argument. But I think it's funny that now Shad is arguing that of course the Rings of Power orcs are clearly a racist stereotype, because they are pale and enslave people.
I certainly think Shad is over-sensitive, seeing red flags and automatically claiming there's malice behind them (like HFM). But I do believe there is gentle discrimination at work. If you had an artistic vision that required changing the orcs from green to black, that idea would be vetoed very quickly. Similarly with the Harkonnens in Dune... can you imagine Villeneuve telling the producers: "I want the evil guys to be pure black-skinned"...? But white (or blue, green, purple, ...) is allowed. So Shad is very much exaggerating, but he's not totally wrong... there is some kind discrimination there with the white orcs. I REALLY would prefer not to be noticing these things but in recent years we've been told to see everything through the lens of race
I don't really see it as bad faith though--you've just explained why it actually makes sense.
If the definition of 'Cherry Picking' meant [The act of cutting open, removing everything inside and analyzing every facet with a proverbial fine-toothed comb with the intent of cataloguing and presenting the findings to a logical conclusion], then RFT is ABSOLUTELY guilty of 'cherry picking'.
Hahahaha
On the Orc question;
All of the clips he showed of Shad and Nerdrodic are them taking the topic of REPRESENTATION seriously from the point of view of the "media literate" crowd, who about twice a year rediscover incredibly stupid argument that "OrcS ArE BlACk PeoPLe/GOblIns aRe JeWs/ThE BuGs arE PoC." They are making fun of the representation argument of "if I cannot see it, I cannot be it" (the "it" being the exact race, sexual orientation, and gender identity that is identical to mine).
They are taking that argument and applying it to the bad guys to see if the writers are consistent/biased. Representation is so important the the cultures and the world building are shattered, but not so important that the bad guys are diverse(which is our strength). And by diverse(which is our strength) we mean not White..... or Asian..... or Jewish (depending on the day).
I believe what Nerdrotic is trying point out about the female orcs, is there was an announcement that Rings of Power would have female orcs and the studio, etc tried making a big deal out of it but for all that you can't tell if any of them are female, so what was the point? The weird warg was female though, we pointed that out in GrimMedia's video on that scene.
Filmmaker: "I'm inserting my politics into your beloved franchises."
Critic: "That's a bad idea."
Hello Future Me: "cRiTicS ArE sO pOliTiCaL!!"
You only cry and throw a temper tantrum about "inserting poltiics into franchises" when it is politics that you disagree with. You're exactly the type of mouthbreather who pretended that Sound of Freedom was good because it aligned with your politics.
Filmmaker: Let's make this one female character anything other than submissive and fertile.
Shadiversity: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS WOKE GARBAGE!? WHAT IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD, JESUS CHRIST, IS POSSESSING THESE PEOPLE TO RUIN BELOVED CHARACTERS FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL AGENDA! DIDNT ANYONE READ MY BOOK!?
In a nut shell
Just Some Guy being listed is especially hilarious since he is a 2000s-era urban liberal who has beef with the MAGA crowd and other right-wingers on the regular.
Yep. He had some things to say about the homophobes when Kevin Conroy died. He is also probably why HFM removed it.
I recall the Mario movie last year produced the same reaction as the Dungeons and Dragons movie, where the "bros" expressed concerns about the movie due to its portrayal of Peach in the trailer. When it came out, there were accusations of disingenuous flipflopping since most of them liked the movie(I believe Shad was the only one that actively disliked it after seeing it). To this day, people cite the Mario movie as an example of why a reviewer shouldn't be taken seriously if they use the word "woke" unironically.
Pretty sure subbing to The Little Platoon got the Algorithm to suggest your channel to me.
On that note I can also vouch for Just Some Guy: politics comes up a lot more often in his videos, but that's more because comics are a lot more overt about beating their audience over the head with political messages.
Hello Future Me is doing a fairly standard type of grift: 'These people are doing a nefarious thing with their politics, you need to get outraged about it'. Whether the targets are actually guilty or not is of minimal importance.
EDIT: He also has things ass-backwards. I'm subbed because of the long-form critique and acerbic wordplay; I actually wound up _leaving_ the sort of subculture bubble he's describing because so many of the channels I was following started radicalizing and engaging in blatant scaremongering. In other words, exactly the kind of thing Hello Future Me is currently doing.
That was PillarofGarbage for me, I subbed to him long before I knew of Mauler or Critical Drinker but gradually he was getting less into the concepts of a Marvel or Community episode or movie and would bring up content about how grifters are lying to you about wokeness. When I warned him of his content going more towards the same grift-material he was critical of, and using the word "lying" in his Critical Drinker video; he just assumed I was an anti-fan and told me this was fun content his **paid members asked him to do** while he works on a longer video essay...
also JSG sticks it to the Right as often as he does to the Left
@@silenceyouidiot Yeah, the warning signs started to show with POG's video on Drinker's She Hulk review. I waved it off, but as time went on, he started to get deeper and deeper into the anti-anti woke pipeline, and by now he's pretty much gone off the deep end.
Same here, Drinker to Platoon to Mauler to Random, process of refinement. 👍
It’s especially ironic to include just some guy. He’s as left as they come. One of his most famous things was a few years ago when him and rekieta got into it. Rekieta basically called him a commie which isn’t far off based on the argument he was making at the time. After that he went super left and started going after many people in the circle listed in the video. He’s on the outs currently for that reason. It seems like he’s on this list simply because he’s a big lord of the rings fan and probably had similar criticisms as the rest. So to include him who’s a lefty that criticizes woke stuff and platoon and RFT who generally don’t talk politics, it almost tells me he searched rings of power critics and just listed the names that popped up. Also the diversity of opinions of all the people listed pretty much destroys his whole argument.
He openly admitted that if you weave disingenous lies into honest critique often enough, that the people he sees as his audience can be effectively brainwashed into believing anything. And only believes thats bad because theyre being brainwashed into the WRONG POLITICAL FACTION LMAO
I'd agree with HFM if not for all the marketing Amazon did for RoP saying they intentionally made it "modern day". That and the fact that HFM pointed out earlier in his video that modern day politics were injected into the show where it didn't belong
I'm pretty sure the only reason Future Me describes the show as mediocre and not terrible is that he doesn't want to be the same as the "wokebros".
Or You know every work out there has some value to it, and making things is hard so calling something terrible is insulting and disrespectful? That could also be the reason.
@@TiredMoonRabbit And why, pray, would be calling something that is terrible terrible insulting and disrespectful, especially if I paid for it?
@@Angrenost02 because people worked on it, put parts of themselves into it. Calling it terrible dwindles all that work down as if it were nothing. Personally I think that's wrong. Key word "Personally".
@@TiredMoonRabbit Are we Hollywood's therapists now?
@@TiredMoonRabbit Calling it terrible doesn't make it as if it was nothing. It just means they did a bad job.
Hello Future's hair is terrible, it's hard to focus on what he's saying.
HelloFutureMe is really disingenuous and hypocritical with a lot of his take. I used to like him until he said that black gnome queen in Rings of Power is okay, despite him also shitting on The Last Airbender because they casted white actors to play main trio instead of asians, like what the fuck? So in one case race swapping is okay, but in the other it's rahcism?
If you mean the movie, that's even funnier because while the different tribes were all different races from the original cartoon, they were still all the same race within the tribe, which makes sense, as opposed to random black people who somehow don't get bred out of the gene pool after centuries.
That reminds me of a dude that criticized Mauler's awesome dissection of Multiverse of Madness. He actually skips to the memory store fragment looking for criticism of two moms thing and is visibly dissapointed when he finds no comment on that point :D
Odd that he starts swinging at Little Platoon, but then quickly drops him from his lineup of “woke bros.” Wonder why he did that?
Your response is brilliantly constructed, and effectively presented. I, a very feminist and highly educated female fan of yours, am very pleased with your video, as usual. I hope all of you Bros, (especially you, TLP and TCD, of whom I'm an avid follower) keep on with the academic-level good work 🍻🥂
HelloFutureMe is one of those people how doesn't care to take in information if he even *thinks* he'll disagree with it on any of it
He's actually lucky this attitude has only led him to not understanding other TH-camrs well because this same attitude is why we have flaterthers or cults, it is very bad for your brain
I am honestly shocked that HFM has the sheer fucking audacity to call people like you, Mauler, Drinker and Nerdrotic "political" grifters.
Drinker gave the Daily Wire movie Lady Ballers a negative review, mere weeks after being interviewed by Ben Shapiro. Mauler and the EFAP crew have torn apart biased movie reviews from the left and right including TYT and DW! Mauler himself to me has always seemed politically neutral. To call him of all people a "gifter" is fucking absurd! He's bought on all kinds of people on his podcast, not just conservatives.
Sure, Shad is an outspoken Mormon, but he's always been honest about his personal biases. HFM is being incredibly dishonest; he should be ashamed of himself for not doing the research and acting in bad faith.
I'm a massive fan of Brad Taste In Music, and in the comments section of his Djesse Vol 4 review, 2 commenters got on me for "going down the alt right pipeline" and "shouting out hateful channels." One of them said that "I want to believe that you have a good heart, but the fact that you endorsed people who spread hateful ideas, makes me doubt you. No left leaning person would say Nerdrotic, Mauler, etc. are cool people. If you paid closer attention to what they’re saying instead of taking their dogwhistles and talking points at face value, you’ll notice it." I just didn't really know what to do, because I've gotten a couple comments like that, but they were from some randos that I didn't really care about. Whereas these people were part of a community that I really enjoyed being a part of, so it made me feel more awkward. I haven't really interacted with either commenter since, but the interaction just kind of left me feeling very weird. Like 2 communities I loved were grabbing my arms and trying to pull me towards their side, when I just want to be a part of both of them.
@@jeremyusreevu237 My advice is: Not listen to some strange Randoms on the internet, love what you love.
1:21:20 Picard in that scene immediately disagrees with that sentiment and is looking for more peaceful compromise between two parties. TNG was political (sometimes, there are many episodes with little to no political discussion), but it absolutely did not pander and Triggenometry in their video have an example of a movie that is barely political (Jurassic park), so IDK how HFM thought that one clip somehow countered what Drinker said.
Jurassic park is a very political movie, what are you talking about.
The dinosaurs are ALL female! Woke af :P
I think Future Me might be spinning those three quotes about Galadriel to suit his opinion that she is a great general, combattant, and leader of Elves. Throwing in the quote about her hair for good measure, I would read it as thus:
Galadriel was of amazonian stature, being tall and with defined musculature. She put up her hair when engaging in athletic activities - such as running, climbing, wrestling, and so on. While combat requires athleticism, it is not an athletic activity per se.
Galadriel and Celeborn faught heroically in defence of a place. She was there, not on her own but with her husband, and together they did battle with the enemy in a heroic way.
Celeborn was the one who led the host of Lorien, and Galadriel was with him. She cast down the walls, presumably with magic, and not with her sword-arm.
She looked upon the Dwarves with the eye of a commander, suggesting that her experience as part of an army, especially when taken with the above readings, allowed her to see in them the qualities that would make them good vs orcs. She simply knew what to look for, as any veteran probably would.
I think it funny because by far her greatest quality as a leader was her wisdom. Yet in ROP that trait is outright missing. Why the hell you would want to portray Galadriel as just some dumb sword fighter is insane. None of those other traits he states from the books and lore, I would say, come anywhere close to importance as wisdom. Being wise is by far the most important trait for a leader of a kingdom or an army. Being a great fighter or magician wouldn't mean your side wins. If that was the case how the hell did Sauron or Melkor ever lose in the first place? Whereas if you position your men correctly and make the best use of the troops than you are highly more likely to win and suffer less losses. That's how I see Galadriel. She's very much capable of fighting if absolutely necessary but otherwise takes a more passive role and commands from a central position whereas her husband is the one on the front lines giving the moral boast and is the better frontliner as it were. But she uses her wisdom and everything she's learned from a few thousand years into making more of her resources. Let's not forget she's trained in magic but doesn't protect herself with a barrier which we know she's capable of as doesn't she have one around her kingdom in the books? So no ROP actively weakened her and turned into a brawler. I just don't see her chasing after Sauron for hundreds or thousands of years when she actively wanted to be a ruler. We know that.
Thank you for saying this, because I was just about to comment something similar. I watched this video yesterday and returned to it because the part where HFM uses those quotes just didn't sit well with me.
He took those passages out of context -- the former ones being from the First Age when she was actually very young (if I remember correctly), before certain events of the First Age cause her to learn wisdom and become who she will be in LotR. This certainly happened long before the Second Age. And I don't know how you can look at those quotes from LotR and think she was some sword-slinging girlboss in context, without having already seen Rings of Power. I certainly never thought of that, and I've lost track of how many times I've read the book. Casting down the walls sounds a lot like magic to me, and the other quotes are about her leadership, not being a frontline warrior.
After close to 2 hours of this I'm not sure where to start. It feels close to the recent Neverknowsbest video where he seemed to go after people he had a chip on his shoulder about. I'm getting the same vibes here, like he'll get credit if he is seen rebuking these channels or cause people to watch his video to get the full context, I don't know.
The thing with the "wokebros" is that I bet if we asked them what they thought of Sarah Conner, Ellen Ripley, Samantha Carter, Xena, Buffy or The Bride as examples, then they would like them. The problem with the modern female characters seems to entirely be the writing that creates and supports them rather than the fact that they can kick ass just as well as the boys. Hell, to use a relevant example I'm pretty sure most of the people he talks about here love Arcane.
I don't know what he says about him but it's kind of weird seeing Just Some Guy be included. I haven't watched JSG in years, always found him a bit mixed, but as far as I remember he describes himself as being on the left.He is also however a massive Tolkien fan to the point where I think he can speak Elvish to a certain degree. I'm pretty sure his criticisms were largely based on lore accuracy and even if he did care about woke inclusion then he is on the side of the fence that is supposed to like that. I feel that if even left wing people are pointing to this and calling it out then maybe it really is a problem that is damaging the quality of the story you are trying to tell.
Regardless of all this, you're good RFT. If he actually watched your content he would have seen the final autopsy videos where you admit to faults and offer corrections which to me shows you are only interested in the truth of what is there in the media rather than pushing some agenda.
Your onto something there, I do feel like HFMs video is really a chip on his shoulder video, if you watch his eyes and facial movements you can see real distain, hatred in them. It really does seem like he is doing this second part of the video not out of care for criticism for just out of a desire to attack his political 'enemies'.
Many of these channels were not political a while ago. Drinker was just a media critic. Many are just fans pointing out their gripes with current media. Only one or two of those channels is actually a political channel, the quartering.
This guy was poorly researched, glad to see him taken to task by a pro.
Don't you just *_love it_* when critics of critics criticize based on the assumptions these critics have in their heads of creators in a certain political leaning rather than the actual content of their works.
It's like Organized Chaos changed his channel name and grew facial hair.
Absolutely fascinated by him having introduced you as a guy who can't explain why something is bad and instead describes it slowly and condescendingly then scoff at it, only to then respond to your point by repeating it slowly and condescending then scoff at it. Absolutely brilliant
Hello Future Me's imitation of The Critical Drinker is incredibly inaccurate as The Critical Drinker has recommended/highly praised both Arcane and the Queens Gambit on Netflix 😂.
He's also praised Blue-Eye Samurai and the 'gay episode' of Last of Us.
@@FionalahHe also likes stuff like Kill Bill or Everything Everywhere, to me it seems pretty obvious Critical just likes entertainment and its' not focused on the diversity at large.
I bet you 10 bucks that in both of thoses reviews he says something that completely undermines the praise he gives and/or twists what ever is being said to be more like his morals and beliefs.
@TiredMoonRabbit You just lost 10 bucks.
@@TiredMoonRabbit Even if it is true, why it is a problem? It is not okey to praise a show for it's quality but argue agains some of it's messaging?
The reaction or summary you gave on rings of power is the most thoughtful one i've seen. You do mention the strong female characters from time to time but you are just pointing out the obvious. Maybe he watched parts of this and assumed you are just hating, idk.
Hello Future Me claiming that we, as a species, have gone past bio-essentialism is laughable considering how people in less developed and more religious societies think. Which includes the majority of the people on Earth. HFM is so isolated and uneducated that it is incredible.
To the point of seeing wokeness in everything. It become difficult to not assume when studios say it's a goal to insert these things into films. I do agree they get it wrong sometimes. However after so many years of things like Cpt. Marvel, Madam Webb, GB2016, Halo, and Rings of Power etc it becomes hard not to see it everywhere.
1:17:37 Um, no, no, NO! Okay, I do not have the grace to give Hello Future Me the benefit of a doubt here, for the simple reason that he took the trouble of finding and uploading the actual quote. This was a blatant misrepresentation of this one-time, never elsewhere depicted description of Galadriel at one specific point in her life. I call it a misrepresentation because he specifically ties this quote to Galadriel "at this point in her life": i. e. during the Second Age, thousands of years after she left Valinor. This quote had *nothing* to do with Galadriel during the Second Age. In fact, it didn't even have anything to do with Galadriel during the First Age.
This quote is *specifically* referring to Galadriel's youth in Valinor during the Age of Starlight (or Age of the Trees, if you prefer). The only battle that took place in Valinor *EVER* was Feanor's slaughter of the Sea Elves who refused to give him their ships so he could chase Morgoth to Middle Earth. Galadriel had no part in that, although I think some versions have her brothers trying to prevent it. Galadriel and her brothers got to Middle Earth by following Feanor's brother Fingolfin across the ice cap Morgoth created between Valinor and Middle Earth.
Once they got to Middle Earth, Tolkien specified that Galadriel went to stay with Luthien's parents for the thousands of years of the First Age, learning how to be a lady and how to use non-combative magic from Luthien's powerful but non-combative mother Melian (Luthien of "Beren and Luthien," ancestors to Elrond and Aragorn). In fact, the only reason Galadriel is able to stay there and learn most of the skills she will later use to orotect Lothlorien is because she *didn't* take part in the slaughter of the Sea Elves or follow Feanor, who slaughtered them. Luthien's Dad was related to the Sea Elves and understandably furious over what was done to them. I give Hello Future Me this much benefit of a doubt that, towards the end of the First Age, she may have unavoidably been caught up in battles I haven't read about yet, but not by her own choice. Luthien's parents' realm was eventually destroyed in that war.
During the Second Age, Tolkien again specified that Galadriel took *no* part in the battles against Sauron. Her role was strictly advisory and she spent most of those thousands of years wandering Middle Earth, trying to find a good place to found her own realm and keeping her company of wandering Elves *away* from the combat zones.
During the Third Age (LOTR takes place at the end of this one) Galadriel's husband Celeborn steps in to take Stewardship of Lothlorien after his cousin, Lothlorien's proper king...drowns. Trying to swim from a ship bound for Valinor back to Middle Earth. Which is a story the show-runners absolutely have the rights to use.
So, no. This quote has nothing to do with Galadriel being an active warrior. Any desire she ever had for battle was crushed beneath witnessing the reality of the carnage left by the slaughter of the Sea Elves and the grim losses suffered crossing the ice to Middle Earth. Her "Amazonian disposition" was almost certainly tied to her pride, the hot temper she had at in her youth, and her enjoyment of taking part in the "athletic feats," which included combat sports. Combat sports are *very* different from actual combat.
Not to be that guy, but "in command" and "on the front lines" are two very different things. It's not like General Esienhower stormed the beaches of Normandy personaly. So when it says in command it doesn't mean neccasarily that Galadriel was actually fighting. She could have been, she was an immensly powerful elf even before the ring of pwer but again just because it says "in command" doesn't mean wielding a sword in the middle of the combat.
Yeah I also think the guy brings and mentions that she was described as being of an Amazon disposition but again that means very little. Not every Amazon would have a lot of combat experience or went into battle. Yes in Greek myth they are described as super strong female warriors and that is likely what Tolkien is aiming towards but again not all warriors are equal in the art of sword fighting. Galadriel probably would have been trained with the sword BUT again in real life noble ladies were also known to fence and taught to defend themselves. Doesn't mean you had ladies of the house on the walls defending a castle alongside the men.
The other thing that bothers me is that Galadriel displays so little wisdom in ROP. She was a wise ruler by the time we reach the 2nd age. She was trained by a Maia like Gandalf in the ways of magic. If given the choice I'm sure Galadriel would blow someone away from her than attack them with the sword. I see her as a more defined older woman who would view a sword as an unwieldy tool that she could use when she has no other choice (Especially in the 2nd age maybe you could get away with it in the 1st age). LOTR is tricky as magic can be very undefined as it's a very loose system where we don't fully understand how it works or what abilities or powers a person could have access to. BUT Galadriel should be using her magic or did ROP forget about magic existing? Like that Volcano explosion would have a great time to show her powers of barrier creation which we know are in place around her kingdom which should also exist in ROP but doesn't because she's been chasing after Sauron for a thousand years. How the hell she hasn't searched the entire middle earth at that point I don't know.
Gonna add this as a separate comment to back up your point on ROP in opposition to HFM. Under no circumstance would a sailor allow anyone to wear plate armour on a boat at sea. Doesn't matter what rank they are that would be outright stupid to ignore an obvious risk. Did sailors, pirates and so on wear armour at sea. YES but under very strict circumstances aka when they're under attack, not when they're just sailing about. After all it's very hard to sneak up on a boat at sea and so as long as someone is on look-on, you'll have plenty of time to equip yourself. Sailors would also wear headscarves and light clothes because it is boiling hot out at sea. The sun heats the water and guess what happens than yes warm water vapour rises up into the sky. So armour on a boat would feel like being cooked in a hotpot, your organs would shrivel and die. Also you don't want to be overheated on a boat as a fresh water would be heavily rationed. So yes it is a criticism of the show not to put Galadriel in reasonable clothes out at sea. FFS they gave her warmer or more clothes in the snow environment didn't they?
As for the sea is always right... I don't think I need to even discuss how that is a criticism as you summed it up perfectly. You can't have a character who watched or knows his wife drowned at sea sprout the line that the sea is always right. Unless you want him to be a villain or psychopath who enjoyed his wife being down on the seabed. Could he still have a love of the sea or complex relation with it. Yes? Sure? Maybe? I don't know because ROP is a mess of writing mistakes. But in that case the writers just have choose a less definite slogan or phrase than the sea is always right. The sea is a brutal mistress OR The tides bring good and bad to these waters. LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE! I am not being paid or care enough to give ROP writers actual good lines.
Edit : Sod it. I want to prove a point. After a few more minutes of thinking I came up with this. The sea is the giver and the taker. That line would should a bit of complexity... rather than the sea is always right. You could get away with exchanging the sea for an actual gods name but OOOPPS forgot they don't have the rights to it so they went with the sea is always right which is going to be a real hit of a line when Numenor gets the Atlantis treatment. That line would also imply that the characters and everyone on Numenor would be fine with what happens to their civilisation and that all of them just deserve to die because that's what the sea and the god(s) is going want that in the future. Don't forget folks the sea is always right... which hold on a moment If the sea destroyed the ship Sauron was on and Galadriel somehow came across in the first place and than also sent a sea serpent after them than wouldn't it be wanting Sauron and Galadriel to drown and die? So would the character believe that the sea changed its mind and wanted Sauron to live... the ultimate evil?