I think the problem is, we don't know how much Mastered Ultra Instinct multiplies from Goku Blue, and if its bigger or smaller than the gap between Base and Blue
Definetly Is,Goku and vegeta could barely harm moro during their final confrontation,with ultra instinct Goku closed the gap and surpassed the guy Blue boys couldnt scratch the guy UI could Definetly way higher than what Blue gives Also,to be able to keep up with Beast Who defeated Cell max supposedly almost stronger than Broly at fullpower if fully completed,MEANS IT'S a pretty High Power up And they still didnt know how to use their ki to IT'S best form unlike their opponents(funnily enough,even though they're masters at ki control and yet they still cant help but waste it😂)
@Spadeaswell That's such a dumb argument, if you have a stronger opponent of course you will have a harder time lmao Despite how Toei unsurprisingly messed up, Toriyama himself wrote Super Hero and made it clear Jiren wasn't even that much stronger than them. Which makes perfect sense as UI is supposed to be a tecnique about dodging, not about power. It also fits perfectly with the Moro and Granolah arcs.
@gioric0458 None of that proves it's a big power boost. We have seen bigger combat gaps than the Moro73 fight in the Namek arc and the difference in power levels then which we can literally check was ridiculously small.
When they stated that “jiren wasnt all that stronger looking at raw strength” it made me respect Jiren even more. If this is true that just means that Jiren is just a force to be reckoned with. This man had such skill that he was able to overpower them both and still fight someone with a technique which makes their own body move autonomously. It’s a crazy feat.
Tbh that statement vegeta made completely disregards everything that was both shown by jirens feats and the statements made by all the gods and angels. It was honestly stupid.
@@hub5916 no. He straight was more powerful and was shown to have greater power. Not only that but it was just straight up stated by both supreme Kai and whis. And there were multiple implications about his “intense heat” implying greater power. And this is while he was suppressed a majority of the TOP. We even see vegeta in his evolution blue form release all his power at once and it didn’t come anywhere close to the power jiren showed. You can’t tell me that statement isn’t complete bs
@@hub5916 also there’s just straight up a statement of jiren surpassing a majority of the gods of destruction with sheer POWER alone and not by how he used it while vegeta and goku still hadn’t surpassed most gods till near the end
I think you guys misunderstand. In the manga vegeta and goku can do what is essentially a...perfected blue? Basically, it is like x10 kaioken, but technically speaking is no different from normal blue. It's the same amount of power but no leaks. But if you didnt know what the difference was anyone would say that *perfected blue* was FAR FAR more powerful than normal blue, even though its the exact same amount of power, just being used much more efficiently. So it is entirely possible that jiren was similar in raw power, but because jiren used it so much more efficiently, to everyone else it looked like jiren had more raw power. And anyways, i think the whole point of that detail is to detach goku and vegeta from the standard dragonball z power-scaling.
I wonder if ultra ego can combine with ultra instinct. Logic says no because both require different mental states. But a form that dodges automatically and gets stronger if you somehow manage to hit it would be absolutely insane.
@@sebagomez4647Honestly, I wonder if a fusion could even use any of those forms. Gogeta and Vegito end up being new beings. What if their new personalities and states of beings don't allow them to easily use UI or UE at all? Like, I know they are made up of Vegeta and Goku, but it's a combination. A combination that results in a whole new person. Similar to the two people who make them up but still different. Or maybe they could both switch between UI and UE at will depending on the current mindset they have in a fight.
@@nycto5335 That's a good question... idk but my guess is yes since while they are a new being they still gain everything goku and vegeta has gained hence why they can use attacks of both that goku and vegeta haven't even practiced. Now i would say probably not because UI and UE are totally different forms that don't tie to saiyan genetics... but then we have to remember that fusions can use kaioken and kaioken is a technique from king kai and not a saiyan thing. So yeah they can definetly tap into UI or UE when fused. And lastly, i'd say they could potentially combine both forms. Remember Goku has mastered his own UI variant aka True Ultra Instinct (TUI) which allows him to use his emotions and easily tap into the form without any drawbacks, however is less powerful than Perfected Ultra Instinct (PUI). But seeing this is the case, Gogeta or Vegito could tap into TUI and combine it with UE since they'd be able to use any emotion in TUI so they could then focus on using a destructive mindset while having TUI active. Their form would then be purple hair (UE colour) and the TUI aura mixed with UE aura and maybe silver eyes because TUI is black hair just like UI sign. Thus bringing to life *True Ultra Gogeta/Vegito* ???
Since this wasn't covered: True Ultra Instinct is just Goku using Sign, which is weaker but doesn't require nearly as much focus to use, allowing Goku to use it more effectively that MUI as well as tap into his emotions, allowing him to gain even more power out of Sign and fight more effectively to the point where he was about on par with Gas after he was curbstomping Goku in MUI and Vegeta in Ultra Ego. It's "Mastered" Sign, similar to how Mastered Super Saiyan works.
So does that mean MUI would still be stronger if he actually masters it completely or does it have a hard restriction of not being emotional which messes with the natural saiyan way of getting stronger that makes it inherently weaker than UI Sign where Goku can utilize his emotions?
@@cannibalman8175 Nothing about it implies a hard restriction of being emotional. It's most likely just a skill issue. In fact, Whis literally says that Goku is just mimicking how Whis uses his innate UI, and that he needs to find his "own UI". So it's more or less stated that Goku can at least eventually use MUI without having to focus so hard, but at his current skill level, it's better to use Omen/True UI due to lower strain and restrictions, saving the added power of MUI for when he really needs it.
Pretty much, yet Ui Goku and Jiren Fanboys will say otherwise >.> i have no idea wth is wrong with DB Fanbase thinking that a character that is part of the fusion....... would be stronger than the fusion... thats just dumb haha, people dont realize that Fusion/Potara literally takes the 2 people.. at their max , combines them together, THEN multiplies them by w/e ammount... That alone equals to Base Fusion stronger than Whatever UI Goku or Jiren can pull out of their ass.
@@tchrono12 …Goku can become stronger over time… UI could definitely defeat Vegito Blue from Black arc, but if they fused during the ToP base Gogeta would be stronger than UI Goku
@@tchrono12 Base Vegito is NOT as strong as MUI Goku…Base Gogeta/Base Vegito is only Blue Goku and Vegeta Level as Gogeta in Base Form was able to perform a bit better than SSJB Goku but he still had to go SSJ against SSJ Broly to win. And Goku in the Moro Arc surpass SSJB Gogeta from the Broly movie, as not only is the Moro Arc several Arcs later after the Broly movie as the Manga is more ahead than the Anime, but Goku also states that Moro is his strongest fight yet, which includes Broly because Goku definitely fought Broly before and is aware of how strong he is
I feel how ui works is it scales on your current power, the stronger forms you get the stronger your ui becomes? Like how water when pressurized can cut through anything or make a strong barrier , so it depends on how much power your vessel can contain without losing it's efficiency pretty much a better kaioken.
Goku and Vegeta power up to their Ultra levels And then they put on the earrings Ultra Malevolence is born I'm thinking with the lavender colored hairstyle😂 in all of that would be their "base"😮
@brandonleemoss Ultra Ego/Instinct fusion won't work. Since both form literally have opposite mindset, a calm mind and a destroyer mind which is impossible to do together, and also the form would be useless since UI automatically dodge attacks and UE gets stronger each damage it takes.
@@BeautifulRoppi of course it would work it would be something else altogether 😎 This time last year you didn't even know Ultra ego existed 🌚 And considering how deep the emotional spectrum is I think you would be doing this franchise a great disservice to think it won't inevitably happen in the future anyway Also what makes you think that there's only two different types of ultra Forms??? We've seen people power up using the power of love, the power of friendship etc and honestly I think with potara fusion they can unlock something new altogether don't you?
Gogeta (Z) is the original ultra instict and ego combined. Go look at Gogeta Vs Janemba and you will realize that that is the birth of ultra instict and ego. This Gogeta in super is a pussy and fake.
in short words: fusion SOLO Edit: ok this had no reason to blow up and start a war in the comments fusion still solo Edit 2: ok I didn’t think this would blow up this much didn’t think anyone would notice thanks for the likes tho
3:35 DB Toriyama: I think all of Goku’s friends are too… irresponsible so to say. I think we need to have someone who is able to properly look out for people, while also being interesting… DBZ Toriyama: What’s a launch?
The POTARA fusion is definitely stronger than mui as it multiplies A(MAXIMUM STRENGTH) x B(MAXIMUM STRENGTH) = c(base). I have no idea about the dance though
Fusions are just the peak of power in Dragon Ball. I would go as far as say that SSB would beat Beerus or at least give him a very close battle. Any higher form I'm confident it would.
The vegeta statement on jiren not being stronger then him and goku but just better at ki usage and control always rub me the wrong way as even if he had such refinement of ki it wouldn't allow him to utterly dog walk everyone around him and blue was stated to also be the peak of ki control and usage (ignore the manga for a minute) so sun wukong and prince vegetable who have access to the forms lack the refinement that jiren has? But then I remember this claim was followed by vegeta saying broly of all people had better ki control then them so to me a majority of super hero power scaling is BS
8:55 I really like that Mastered UI is just like Kaioken. Techniques created by gods/angles that when mortals use it, Increases their strength and defense, but can only do so for a limited time or else it completely wrecks their body.
In the anime Goku once enraged literally defeated Jiren with no sweat, while Gogeta with a super and 2 ultimates attacks couldnt even put Broly down until the kamehameha. Broly and Jiren have statements being as strong if not stronger than the gods, but this was Jiren in base not Awaken. Meaning Mui might be on an even higher tier than Broly and not only that but in the manga he states Moro 73 was the strongest foe meaning beyond Broly and Jiren. The same Moro who broke his hand with Gokus body, a level of superiority that even Gogeta didnt display with Broly. Vegito's Beerus statement doesnt matter since Broly, Jiren, and even Goku ui sign have similar claims of being beyond the gods of destruction or beerus. So yeah Goku is stronger than fusions with MUI. Also comparing Kefla to Gogeta or Vegito doesn make sense as she in base is supposed to be stronger than Kale full power whos on ssg/ssb tier.
That’s not true. 3500 is piccolos last officially stated power level but that’s before he trained with king Kai. Piccolos power level also highly impressed nail. Do you really think nail with a power level of over 40,000 would be impressed by a mere 3500? Piccolos power level was closer to around 200,000 by the time he fuses with nail making it about a 5x boost
i wonder if you were to get an enitre race of namekians make them all split into twos, train untill near the end of their lifespan have one create a young namekian and fuse with the entire species how strong of a being would that create
@@shane7051 The daizenshuu is canon, you can cry about that all you want. Elder kai also states that potara has a greater effect (power) than fusion in the manga. Cope
@@johnstrife7 toriyama didnt state that. A promo piece from V Jump did. V jump has also said that Gogeta < Berserk Broly Fusion Reborn Goku is weaker than 1st form frieza I dont think you wanna start using V jump as a source. Stop glazing the weaker fusion. Daizenshuu 7 and the Z manga both state Potara is stronger. Black frieza also states he is stronger than Gogeta blue, but he is confirmed weaker than beerus. However Vegito in the zamasu arc is stated to be stronget than beerus in the manga. Vegito Blue (Zamasu)> Beerus > Black Frieza > Gogeta Blue (Broly)
MUI being stronger than fusion was believable at a time. But then we get to the Tournament of power where not only is Kefla overpowered, but Vados states Potara takes the full power of both characters and multiplies their power by 10s of time for a base fusion. This means that canonically, base Vegito from the Goku Black arc was 10s of times stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta combined and went SSB on top of that. They think Goku and Vegeta alone scale above Vegito because of some statements made about Jiren but Vegeta saying Jiren was not much stronger is more recent so that takes more priority. Regardless of you believe this or not, for Goku to surpass Vegito from the black arc, he'd have to get billions of times stronger. Base fusions being stronger than the sum of their parts is further proven in Broly when Base Gogeta easily evades Broly's blasts and fights equally with him as a Super Saiyan.
This also proves that the Fusion Dance and Potara are equal in strength since both get dozens of times stronger than the max of the sum of their parts.
@@righteousone5119 I disagree since Potara has the rival boost and doesn't need characters to be equal in strength. Strength isn't everything though. The promotional material never actually said they were equally but that they were equally viable options which is true. Fusion dance can be redone after an hour, but if you fail with Potara, you're probably screwed. Additionally, Daizenshuu says Potara is indeed stronger, not just better and that's approved by Toriyama. The promotional material had nothing to do with Toriyama.
@@righteousone5119 Fusion Dance is pretty op too. Potara may be stronger but that doesn't necessarily mean better. Elder Kai would be biased but think of it like this. If Gogeta is up against a foe that can evade him enough so that he'll defuse, Gogeta can come back with knowledge of their tricks after an hour. Vegito will have more time, but unless they have another set of Potara earrings, they're screwed.
@@phantomrogue7894DBS: Broly promo piece describing Gogeta and Vegetto as “equally-matched ultimate trump cards”. Lowering other power don't mean that power is gone. Both equal confirmed,+ same person doing it.
Totally agree But I feel like you forgot about one point, once Gogeta went Blue, Broly couldn't land a single hit, the gap in strength was insanely huge, even if UI goku is stronger than Broly I don't see it closing the gap to Gogeta Blue also a side note, Gohan didn't win against Cell max alone, first his skull was cracked a bit due to one of the gamma's attack and Picolo was holding him, so it isn't really clear if he could win on his own especially if Max was conscious
There are several implications that the Ultra forms are near fusion level multipliers across all media Anime Dragon Ball Heroes -Goku defeats Cumber who is shown on par with Xeno and Blue Vegetto -Goku is confident that he could defeat Hearts if had access to UI it takes Blue Gogeta, Jiren, and Hit to do a feat Goku is confident he could do alone in Ui - UI Goku bodies Ssj3 Goku Black who then powers up and Gogeta uses blue evolution which is at least 20x that of Blue to defeat him -Jiren is superior to Cumber who beat two Vegetto and was shown holding his own against Xeno Broly who was shown battling Limit Breaker Vegetto and Blue Vegetto Manga -Fusion is suggested against Moro 73 but it is shut down because of forced spirit fission keep in mind you have to damage your opponent for the technique to work meaning Moro 73 is capable of damaging Gogeta something even Broly couldn't achieve this fusion level threat is destroyed by a refined Mui Goku and then further transforms and even then Goku was still confident against Angel Moro -Granola arc Goku and Vegeta surpassed Broly -Chapter 93 has Broly placed around the same level as other UI level characters such as Moro, Jiren, and Gas Broly was obviously a fusion-level threat -it is implied in 102 that Ultimate Gohan is a fusion-level multiplier with Goten and Trunks attempting to use fusion to match it -Beast Gohan defeats cell max which in raw power was comparable to Broly again Broly being a fusion-level threat -Mui rivals Beast Gohan this speaks for itself -A fatigued Beast Gohan has the upper hand on the fusion level threat Broly who in the manga doesn't have Lssj Games -Xenoverse Has Jiren going Equal with a stronger Broly who fought Gogeta -DB Legends has Gogeta more interested in fighting Jiren than Broly -Both Gogeta and Jiren are confident that Mui could defeat Lssj Broly -Jiren beats Broly in a scuffle before being overpowered by Gogeta -Establishes the scale of Gogeta>>Mui>Jiren>Broly Dragon ball heroes -The arcade has Jiren fight Zamasu, Cumber, and Hearts at the same time three fusion level opponents -Sparking Zero -We will see Gogeta and Hercule fight Jiren I doubt Gogeta will not one-shot Jiren making them somewhat on par Jiren is obviously Mui-level -Mui Goku will fight lssj Broly and most likely win
I like a lot of your points but the games and especially dragon ball heroes shouldn't be used for any canon facts. That includes DB legends cause i assume you mean the story which is just an odd what if. Not completely shutting down your theory but you really shouldn't cite some of those as evidence yk? And editing to clarify i mean both dragon ball heroes the game and the super dragon ball heroes anime
@@bardock7784all respect to toriyama, but lets not act like everything he says is cannon as he messes up, forgets, and just contradicts himself quite a bit
Wow thanks for the information, now that you mention it i think you got it right. But i wish ultra instinct and ultra ego would get an anime show off [lol]
If it a current gogeta blue or vegito blue vs a current (using time machine to find another current goku) mui goku the fusion wins in my opinion both anime and manga. I feel like fusion is a+b’s strongest forms (that they can access) 10’s of times (so 30-100) is equal to base form fusion. Therefore for example broly movie gogeta cuz goku couldnt access ui when fused base gogeta is stronger than broly who was stronger than ssb. And this is fusion dance and it’s shown to be at least slightly weaker than potara and it still is stronger than the strongest form (accessible). So if a current fusion were to occur in the manga the fusion would be in base stronger than mui and ultra ego so yeah.
The Potara is (A+B)× 10 as what vados claimed. For gogeta he said our powers aren't just added together, they're significantly magnified. Which u might think of the Potara Multiplier but that's wrong. Gogeta meant that Goku and Vegeta's power aren't just added together but they're magnified to each other which is A×B.
@@amirram8308 vados said (a+b) times tens-fold or tens of times (30-100) and gogeta isnt timesing ppls power together cuz then it would be like trillion times a trillion and gogeta would solo any1 basically if that was case. Additionally it said they aren’t JUST added together suggesting that they are added and times. So ik no confirmation but prob similar to vados statement as in (a+b) x 30-100 weather it less or more than vegito (prob less). Additionally vegito is stated to have a rival boost and u don’t need to be on the same power to fuse together hence why vegito is prob> gogeta who arl OP
@@Timmyk987 it does and it is A×B. Since vados claimed the potara earrings multiplier is (A×B)× tens of time but we can't take that into the account for gogeta since Magnifying Is the same as Multiplying and what he meant was their powers aren't just added together, but they're magnified to each other which means they're multiplied To Each other. Toriyama himself described Vegito as ( their power is amplified ) which means their powers will be added together and will get amplified to tens of time. Amplifying is different from magnifying which amplifying means the combined powers will get Multiplied to some amount but Magnifying means the two powers combined together by multiplying. And the fusion dance isn't dozens of times more powerful than Potara. The Vados said tens of times which means (100 or even slightly above like 1000) which means it will get closer to Gogeta since it was stated that Gogeta and Vegito are equal to each other since the users are also equal to each other. Vegito isn't stronger at all. The only Advantage Vegito has over gogeta is his time limit being about an hour. Otherwise Vegito will also defuse Midway/Midbattle and quicky due to having a power limit and transforming draining the timer even faster. But although the fusion dance only lasts for 30 guaranteed minutes, it doesn't have any power limits and could go full and beyond his power without any chance of getting defused
@@amirram8308 vegito is stronger than gogeta for 2 reasons. 1 for example gogeta is b+b x10s of times whereas vegitos is a+b x10s of times. What this means is that gogeta needs both fighters to be on the same power lvl. So if A is 10 and B is 8 A needs to go to 8 to fuse whereas vegito can have 10+8. Secondly vegito has a rivalry boost. Also vados statement is added together than multiplied. Again if gogeta was axb and power levels are in quadrillions then gogeta solos all. And is stronger than vegito which he isnt
@@Timmyk987 Vegito isn't stronger than Gogeta. it's Still Gogeta who's slightly stronger than Vegito. And u didn't even read what i said at all. First let's talk abt the Limits and Drawbacks of The Fusions. There was another Thing that stated in the black goku arc that If the potara fusion Transforms to a strong form, it will reduce the timer even lower. Not only that, if he uses too much power, he'll defuse midbattle due to how broken the Potara earrings are for the powerful mortals with Powerful and strong forms. Vegito defusing cuz of imperfected ssjb is an excuse that Vegito fans say to make Vegito an Unlimited Fusion. The overall reason is just cuz Vegito can't handle strong Forms And has a powerlimit. The drawbacks of Potara are more clear than the fusion dance. Like After u defuse u can't perform it for a while. But u can perform the fusion dance no matter what the situation is. Goku and Vegeta are Equal to each other that means they don't need to Lower their power which also means Gogeta and Vegito are equal. The only advantage Vegito has over gogeta is his time limit. Otherwise Gogeta is slightly stronger and more powerful and can go full and beyond his current power to end the opponent faster despite being only 30 mins as what he showed to us in the broly movie. Fusion dance limits are only having a equal and similar power levels ( which goku and Vegeta are equals so they don't need to lower their powers ) and perform the dance correctly. But U can't find Potara earrings everywhere. And just for a slight boost u'll defuse if u Transform to a strong and powerful form or if u use a powerful Attack/technique. Gogeta won't defuse even if their blue form was imperfect. It doesn't have a power limit at all. One of potara's Weaknesses is Using Too much power. The second is Transforming draining the potara timer even faster as what that Kai looking thing stated in the manga. If ur Saying "it was cuz of ssjb being imperfect" Then answer my question : if it was because of Imperfect ssjb, why Not and didn't goku Nor Vegeta tap out of the form and never run out of stamina Not a Single Time? If the imperfect ssjb relly drains the stamina?? If the ssjb Requires and drains more ki as if it is stronger which might drain ur stamina quicker and faster, why didn't they run out of stamina themselves?? Cuz it's not cuz of imperfected ssjb, it's cuz of Transforming draining the Potara earrings Timer ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Imo it depends, if they currently fuse then the fusions are superior but the power growth of the saiyans is crazy, especially when Goku surpassed omen 1 with omen 2 and surpassed omen 2 in his base ssgss as stated by Jiren then omen 3 being above all these and MUI who also grows in power after kuririn's pep talk this Goku and Vegeta would destroy the vegito blue in the black arc since he was struggling against zamas and shin stated Jiren is far and away the strongest they ever faced even above zamas merged with the timeline which was felt all the way in the present, in the broly movie it seems they got even stronger and when they fused Gogeta in base was waay stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in their full power, now the Moro arc Goku's power in MUI even made Beerus start complimenting Goku and from whis' reaction nobody gets that easily, Beerus never gave that form of respect or acknowledgement to Gogeta and he was there he just says they managed somehow, Now going into super hero Gohan states that Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to beat cell max with piccolo not disagreeing remember piccolo witnessed Gogeta blue and his power yet he still agrees they wouldn't be able to beat cell now let's go back a little to when Goku was talking to Moro he said Moro was the strongest one he has ever faced with him having memories of Gogeta's power yet he still said such a thing proving that in his state at the current time he was above fusion now at the end of the granolah arc black freezer one shots both Goku and Vegeta in their most powerful forms at the time and remember he witnessed Gogeta and his power and trained to surpass all of them he left Goku and Vegeta alive despite knowing first hand what power they can muster in short periods of time yet he is still confident that he would decimate them meaning he trained for a hypothetical ultra Gogeta or Vegito. Point is currently I believe even their base god forms would destroy all the other past fusions but if they were to fuse now then it would be the opposite and this shows how crazy their growth in power actually is
@@GuyVickat the very least, we could have Gogeta/Vegito swapping between Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct depending on what would be the most useful form in a given situation in a fight. Since they're a combination of Goku and Vegeta, they should atleast be capable of using UI and UE alone
It can't be. UI and UE are literal opposites and you can't mske them work together as the fusion would be evading the very same hits he needs to take in order to get stronger.
According to the manga Goku is way stronger than Broly Let me explain Gas and granola wish to become the strongest worrior in universe 7 and Goku and Vegeta continuous caught up with gas as the fight continue and even surpassed gas at some point bt coz of the wish to remain the strongest no matter wat gas grew stronger than Goku This fact put Goku way stronger than Broly at this point th-cam.com/users/shortsgP8L4-w-ST0?si=G19vLcqxTe_pia7X
DBHype, why are you completely ignoring the Dragon Ball Super anime? The continuity most people are familiar with and use. For example you say that UI Isn't much stronger than SSB, because of the extremely odd statement in super hero that doesn't make any sense. Why are you using this, instead of just using what actually happens in the TOP? In the TOP Jiren SOLOS SSBKKX20 Goku with ease no issue, this Jiren at FULL POWER, gets tossed like a toddler by MUI. So clearly the line in Super Hero doesn't make any sense at all with what happened in the TOP, so why are you using it, instead of what actually happened in the TOP?
Its about how they use there power Even if you have greater energy if your opponent can still beat you if you exhaust yourself to fast or cant use the power to its fullest
@@supadokkaner6954 No???? In the anime MUI Goku surpassed Jiren, therefore surpasses the gods of destruction. This is consistent in the anime In the manga, Belmod is comparable to Beerus, who is weaker than jiren, who is weaker than MUI goku, who is weaker than beerus by a MILE See the GIGANTIC inconsistency here? How the heck is Beerus both comparable to Belmod, who is weaker than Jiren, and Jiren is weaker than MUI Goku, while also Beerus being stronger than MUI Goku by a MILE, it literally is objectively a retcon that makes zero sense Tell me how Beerus >>> MUI Goku > Jiren > Belmod = Beerus How does this scale make any sense??
Simple. The anime is full of rhe usual Toei stupid inconsistencies including Krillin fighting SSB, or Goku Black skupping Super Saiyan despite the later being Toriyama's draft. Super Hero was literally written by Toriyama, so we go by what he actually wanted to happen. It fits with the manga as well.
6:50 Thank you for using Incomplete and Complete Ultra Instinct. (Or basically unawakened and awakened) It's not the same as using Mastered. Complete (completed or awakened) is the better term to use. If Goku really had "Mastered" UI, he would have reached Whis's level but in reality that really didn't happen AND LET'S ALSO CONSIDER that the Tournament of power or T.O.P. didn't last a day or weeks or months but 1 hour, 1 hour right? 48 minutes, so saying that Goku "MASTERED" Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, or roughly 10-15min TO BE PRECISE, is a super huge stretch. Seriously, why was the awakened ultra instinct named "Mastered" and not complete or awakened, like I mentioned just now. Just like with Gohan... But I think Ultimate is better than using Mystic and Beast should have been named Ultra. Why Ultimate instead of Mystic (I think Zenkai would have been a better name), because ultimate is supposed to represent and means "the pinnacle of something". The top of the top. Final. The best achievable or imaginable. And why should Gohan's Beast form be named Ultra and not Ultimate? Because Beast form is like a Hyper or Ultra form of a Super Saiyan. (And this concept was borrowed in Dragon Ball Multiverse and the creators giving Goku & Vegeta a new transcendental Super Saiyan form) NOT THAT IT IS SUPER SAIYAN or related to it BUT that's what it seems to be. I mean... Spiky hair, color changes and the user is from the saiyan race (though hybrid) so yeah. Another iteration of Super Saiyan forms. That's what it gives, the feeling, what we see, what it seems to be.
Knowing Google exists allows me to easily answers this question, the second definition Google provides is to gain control over something which is very accurate to the interpretation in the T.O.P. So based on the definition the names we are looking for is controlled or “Autonomous Ultra Instinct” especially since attacks are fully autonomous in this variant.
@@Arichson No the description he uses if how the forms are officially recognized. There is only ui sign/ omen that whis describes as the gate ay to ui, and then the actual technique manifest as a form which is what silvered hair ui is.
Could you do "What if Goku & Vegeta never attained God ki?" i know you don't really do what-ifs anymore, but i havent seen anyone else do this yet, and you're the best "what-iffer" that i know of. Realistically they would die by beerus if they didnt attain god ki, but i wanna see what you would come up with. im guessing in your what-if, they would go down a primal path, similiar to ssj4 or ssj5(fanfic).
Without God Ki, those two are probably left in the dust with no hope of catching up. When you think of how Frieza, Broly and Gohan (among others) reach such ridiculous levels WITHOUT God Ki, it ALMOST makes Goku and Vegeta look like frauds.
You're talking about Super Dragon Ball Heroes, not Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, 2 completely different storylines. SDBH is a storyline that split off from 2 storylines, one from DBGT, and the other from the anime version of DBS. Hearts never appeared in DBS.
@cameronstevens2053 someone commented on a reply from a year ago. Whatever you're on, please stay away from it. I have to say that Way too many times to people.
@@ohhellwhereami2574 I saw a statement somewhere that Cell Max is around at Brolys power, and Gohan literally didnt even flinch when fighting Cell Max in his beast form, so Gohan is equal or stronger than Gogeta(Broly Movie), so yeah
if both fusion participants have different mindsets then mindset based transformations can’t or shouldn’t work gogeta/vegito shouldn’t be able to use UE or MUI(transformation, technique still should be possible there)
that and if the people doing the fusion via potara are too strong that fusion will end in such a short period of time that it becomes useless, can’t remember if the metamorman one has the same limit with being too strong
I think by this point Toriyama was basically done with power scaling. What I'm seeing is that super Saiyan blue and the other forms comparable to it are basically the same tier of power, like a soft ceiling, and victory and defeat is basically dependent on your skill. Just like how top tier MMA fighters arent separated much by their physical strength but rather their skill and experience. Therefore, the idea with ultra instinct is that it bypasses the need for experience such that all your reactions are "perfect" and contains no openings.
@@LibtarDemonRat Nah thats some insane downplay on UI, i dont think its the whatever the fuck *THAT* number the OP said but its def WAYYYY past a million You have time to read? Cause I can explain why using Super Saiyan God's multiplier and Super Vegito SSG >> Super Vegito Post Buu Arc (possibly a SSJ3 Vegito) SSG >> Super Vegito > Base Vegito is >> SSJ3 Goku SSJ3 multiplier is 400x. So on the LOWEST BALL POSSIBLE, Vegito would be also be 400x, meaning 400*50 which is a 20,000x multiplier for Super Vegito. Now Lets say for the sake of easier arguments that SSG is equal and not higher multiplier than Super Vegito from the Buu Arc (even though he very much is) and that Goku and Vegeta didn't get stronger at all. This mean SSGSS multiplier is 20,000x times 50 (its SSG but SSJ, so 50x again --> 20,000*50) This makes SSGSS multiplier already 1,000,000x which is already past your theory. Then you do 20x to that and its 20,000,000x multiplier. This is the *LOWEST BALL POSSIBLE* UI sign was doing leagues better than Blue KKx20, so using this low ball, I'd say its multiplier would be 40,000,000 and MUI as a lowball only being double that at 80,000,000 I know I said it a lot but THIS IS A LOW BALL, which I just wanna further emphasize
@@PricklyPringle12 ui omen fight on par with jiren then jiren power up to the point his aura cover arena itself and charged ki blast that was meant to end ui omen goku then goku turn mui and vaporised that blast completely out of existence by just move finger a little in ep129 so the gap between ui omen and mui has to be very massive
one small detail you missed is that Gohan Beasts fight with ultra instinct Goku. Goku wasn’t trying to fight seriously he was measly trying to see how strong he was, if he was fighting seriously it would have been a different story
Potara fusions are more powerful than their Dance counterparts because the fighters have to match their power level (decrease it) in order to do the fusion dance and the power of the fusion doesn't have it maximum power making them weaker than potara fusions because both current power levels of the warriors combine and multiply, while potara fusions dont have such matching power level restrictions.
Fusion/merging just puts together both characters, adds their overall power plus their potential and multiplies it by 10. The thing with UI sign Is that we see Jiren handle SSJBKKX20 Goku and SSJBE Vegeta, Android 17 who’s equal to ssjb Goku as with Golden Frieza. And we can see in some points Jiren and UI Goku are near the same in terms of power and other hax. In the manga SSJB Perfected Goku uses some technique we don’t know about or the multiplier but he seems to do way better using that technique than he and the Z fighters did against Jiren in the anime. Another good point is the fact Ikari Broly seems slightly weaker than ssjb Goku yet closes the gap with ssj. He should actually be just as strong as both of them in his ssj. So Gogeta blue is weaker or somewhere near the same strength as Goku UI sign.
I feel like the reason why Black Frieza form was created was to basically topped Both MUI and Ultra Ego so that they would require to fuse to beat him. The thing is as Goku and Vegeta gets stronger their fusion form will be even stronger as well, also retconning in DB is a thing so we dont really know for sure. Also we dont even know the full strength of Beerus cause he never shown it to anyone beside Whis. Any statement about "Might be Stronger than beerus" isnt mean anything.
just bec goku said fusing w vegeta wont be enough doesnt mean its weaker than ssg, even when goku reached ssg he said its a lvl of power he never thought he could reach on his own which means fusion could hypothetically match or surpass it and even ssg wasnt enough against beerus, hypothetical ssj3 vegito would slam ssg goku
I want fusion to be phased out in future story lines because it feels like a cheap get out of a jail card. And the one way I can see that happening is Gogeta/Vegito can’t access those forms because UI and UE are the opposite of each other and therefore incompatible. This means they’ll only be able to access Blue when fused and not UI/UE, forcing more strategic story telling like in the Frieza and Cell arc.
I think when Vegeta mentioned Jiren's power isn't that different from them, yet he was so amazing... he was saying Jiren's power during ToP is not that much different from theirs IN the DBS: Super Heroes Arc, yet they are still not as good as him. And not saying Jiren was equal to them in terms of raw power during ToP. Since Broly, Moro, Granolah and Super Heroes, 4 Arcs have passed since ToP, they are over 10,000 times stronger than they were during ToP and they have become relative to Jiren in terms of raw power. Though my theory will indirectly hints that UI is quite a bit more than 10,000 times stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. PS: For those who don't know where I get the 10,000x, its based off Goku needing SSJBKKx10 to draw with Hit in their 1st fight but only needed SSJB alone to draw with him in their 2nd fight, 1 Arc later. So to simplify, I just use Broly = 10x, Moro = 100x, Granolah = 1000x and Super Heroes = 10,000x stronger than themselves in ToP.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
‘They all reached 120% of their potential’ ahh thumbnail 💀
LoL
I clicked on this video for the thumbnail lol
@@grantgarbour same
I may be missing the joke, but that is LITERLY that scenes' poses
I think the problem is, we don't know how much Mastered Ultra Instinct multiplies from Goku Blue, and if its bigger or smaller than the gap between Base and Blue
Toriyama said it multiplies his strongest form by 4x or 3x
Definetly Is,Goku and vegeta could barely harm moro during their final confrontation,with ultra instinct Goku closed the gap and surpassed the guy
Blue boys couldnt scratch the guy
UI could
Definetly way higher than what Blue gives
Also,to be able to keep up with Beast Who defeated Cell max supposedly almost stronger than Broly at fullpower if fully completed,MEANS IT'S a pretty High Power up
And they still didnt know how to use their ki to IT'S best form unlike their opponents(funnily enough,even though they're masters at ki control and yet they still cant help but waste it😂)
Which one beat the bricks out of Jiren and which one was constantly manhandled?
@Spadeaswell That's such a dumb argument, if you have a stronger opponent of course you will have a harder time lmao
Despite how Toei unsurprisingly messed up, Toriyama himself wrote Super Hero and made it clear Jiren wasn't even that much stronger than them. Which makes perfect sense as UI is supposed to be a tecnique about dodging, not about power. It also fits perfectly with the Moro and Granolah arcs.
@gioric0458 None of that proves it's a big power boost. We have seen bigger combat gaps than the Moro73 fight in the Namek arc and the difference in power levels then which we can literally check was ridiculously small.
When they stated that “jiren wasnt all that stronger looking at raw strength” it made me respect Jiren even more. If this is true that just means that Jiren is just a force to be reckoned with. This man had such skill that he was able to overpower them both and still fight someone with a technique which makes their own body move autonomously. It’s a crazy feat.
Tbh that statement vegeta made completely disregards everything that was both shown by jirens feats and the statements made by all the gods and angels. It was honestly stupid.
@@cj4ev3r26No it doesn't. He was as strong as he was because of how he UTILIZED his power, making him seem much more powerful than he actually was.
@@hub5916 no. He straight was more powerful and was shown to have greater power. Not only that but it was just straight up stated by both supreme Kai and whis. And there were multiple implications about his “intense heat” implying greater power. And this is while he was suppressed a majority of the TOP. We even see vegeta in his evolution blue form release all his power at once and it didn’t come anywhere close to the power jiren showed. You can’t tell me that statement isn’t complete bs
@@hub5916 also there’s just straight up a statement of jiren surpassing a majority of the gods of destruction with sheer POWER alone and not by how he used it while vegeta and goku still hadn’t surpassed most gods till near the end
I think you guys misunderstand. In the manga vegeta and goku can do what is essentially a...perfected blue? Basically, it is like x10 kaioken, but technically speaking is no different from normal blue. It's the same amount of power but no leaks. But if you didnt know what the difference was anyone would say that *perfected blue* was FAR FAR more powerful than normal blue, even though its the exact same amount of power, just being used much more efficiently.
So it is entirely possible that jiren was similar in raw power, but because jiren used it so much more efficiently, to everyone else it looked like jiren had more raw power.
And anyways, i think the whole point of that detail is to detach goku and vegeta from the standard dragonball z power-scaling.
The jjk reference thumbnail goes hard😭🔥
Ong I was waiting for someone to comment this
"Why Fusions vs Ultra Instinct Goku Isn't Close!"
Also Him: Its hard to tell, maybe
@secoTheSonicFan ikr
He only said that, if you're going off of the manga it will be close, he said anime wise fusions are better
😭
This is honestly the perfect analysis. I have nothing I could offer I completely agree
A current fusion in the manga with how much stronger they are now would be horrifyingly powerful
I wonder if ultra ego can combine with ultra instinct.
Logic says no because both require different mental states.
But a form that dodges automatically and gets stronger if you somehow manage to hit it would be absolutely insane.
@@sebagomez4647 Ultra Gogeta would be mad
@@sebagomez4647Honestly, I wonder if a fusion could even use any of those forms. Gogeta and Vegito end up being new beings. What if their new personalities and states of beings don't allow them to easily use UI or UE at all?
Like, I know they are made up of Vegeta and Goku, but it's a combination. A combination that results in a whole new person. Similar to the two people who make them up but still different.
Or maybe they could both switch between UI and UE at will depending on the current mindset they have in a fight.
@@nycto5335 That's a good question... idk but my guess is yes since while they are a new being they still gain everything goku and vegeta has gained hence why they can use attacks of both that goku and vegeta haven't even practiced.
Now i would say probably not because UI and UE are totally different forms that don't tie to saiyan genetics... but then we have to remember that fusions can use kaioken and kaioken is a technique from king kai and not a saiyan thing. So yeah they can definetly tap into UI or UE when fused.
And lastly, i'd say they could potentially combine both forms. Remember Goku has mastered his own UI variant aka True Ultra Instinct (TUI) which allows him to use his emotions and easily tap into the form without any drawbacks, however is less powerful than Perfected Ultra Instinct (PUI). But seeing this is the case, Gogeta or Vegito could tap into TUI and combine it with UE since they'd be able to use any emotion in TUI so they could then focus on using a destructive mindset while having TUI active. Their form would then be purple hair (UE colour) and the TUI aura mixed with UE aura and maybe silver eyes because TUI is black hair just like UI sign. Thus bringing to life *True Ultra Gogeta/Vegito* ???
@@sebagomez4647nah it would be pretty week cuz it’s so different from eachother.. they’re basically countering themselves
3:38 "you know how toriyama WAS" 😟😟😔😔
😢😢
Since this wasn't covered:
True Ultra Instinct is just Goku using Sign, which is weaker but doesn't require nearly as much focus to use, allowing Goku to use it more effectively that MUI as well as tap into his emotions, allowing him to gain even more power out of Sign and fight more effectively to the point where he was about on par with Gas after he was curbstomping Goku in MUI and Vegeta in Ultra Ego. It's "Mastered" Sign, similar to how Mastered Super Saiyan works.
So does that mean MUI would still be stronger if he actually masters it completely or does it have a hard restriction of not being emotional which messes with the natural saiyan way of getting stronger that makes it inherently weaker than UI Sign where Goku can utilize his emotions?
@@cannibalman8175
Nothing about it implies a hard restriction of being emotional. It's most likely just a skill issue. In fact, Whis literally says that Goku is just mimicking how Whis uses his innate UI, and that he needs to find his "own UI". So it's more or less stated that Goku can at least eventually use MUI without having to focus so hard, but at his current skill level, it's better to use Omen/True UI due to lower strain and restrictions, saving the added power of MUI for when he really needs it.
Me: so would you lose?
SSJB Gogeta: if he went full power it might cause me a bit of trouble but would I lose? Nah I’d win.
Shows them defusing offscreen
Beerus: Finally a worthy opponent you made me use 0.00000002% of my power
@@Fodd976lol kiddo vegito blue >beerus stated by kaioshin go and read the manga and shut up
@Fodd976 glazing. but nah truly talking whis said that if Goku and Vegeta fuse together they might win
Fusions are too OP and their powers are definitely unlimited because Goku and Vegeta keep getting stronger and stronger
Not unlimited
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatmanhe right
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman They are right
Thumbnail goes hard🔥🔥🔥
Fusion is just a whole different realm of power, I’m confident to say future saga vegito blue washes jiren
Fp Jiren vs either of the two wouldn't go in their favor.
Nah Jiren slams
Pretty much, yet Ui Goku and Jiren Fanboys will say otherwise >.> i have no idea wth is wrong with DB Fanbase thinking that a character that is part of the fusion....... would be stronger than the fusion... thats just dumb haha, people dont realize that Fusion/Potara literally takes the 2 people.. at their max , combines them together, THEN multiplies them by w/e ammount... That alone equals to Base Fusion stronger than Whatever UI Goku or Jiren can pull out of their ass.
@@tchrono12 …Goku can become stronger over time… UI could definitely defeat Vegito Blue from Black arc, but if they fused during the ToP base Gogeta would be stronger than UI Goku
@@tchrono12 Base Vegito is NOT as strong as MUI Goku…Base Gogeta/Base Vegito is only Blue Goku and Vegeta Level as Gogeta in Base Form was able to perform a bit better than SSJB Goku but he still had to go SSJ against SSJ Broly to win. And Goku in the Moro Arc surpass SSJB Gogeta from the Broly movie, as not only is the Moro Arc several Arcs later after the Broly movie as the Manga is more ahead than the Anime, but Goku also states that Moro is his strongest fight yet, which includes Broly because Goku definitely fought Broly before and is aware of how strong he is
this was a great video. thanks for uploding this exactly before i start power scaling it myself XD
Hence proved, that fusions are the ultimate trump-cards.
if thats true why they didnt use it against moro or gas in the manga ? that is just not true
@@Sinu_han1there’s plenty of times in DB that they should’ve used fusion but they didn’t. That proves nothing 😂
@@MylesJayy exactly, i was gonna say the same thing
@@jaykilz1544 right. The TOP would’ve been done a lot quicker if Gogeta or Vegito pulled up
@@Sinu_han1dumb argument. And fusion being used less makes it more hype
I feel how ui works is it scales on your current power, the stronger forms you get the stronger your ui becomes? Like how water when pressurized can cut through anything or make a strong barrier , so it depends on how much power your vessel can contain without losing it's efficiency pretty much a better kaioken.
Now that Ultra Instinct and Ego are a thing, imagine when or if the Vegito/Gogeta get their ultra power up. They would be a menace.
Goku and Vegeta power up to their Ultra levels
And then they put on the earrings
Ultra Malevolence is born
I'm thinking with the lavender colored hairstyle😂 in all of that would be their "base"😮
@brandonleemoss Ultra Ego/Instinct fusion won't work.
Since both form literally have opposite mindset, a calm mind and a destroyer mind which is impossible to do together, and also the form would be useless since UI automatically dodge attacks and UE gets stronger each damage it takes.
@@BeautifulRoppi of course it would work it would be something else altogether 😎
This time last year you didn't even know Ultra ego existed 🌚
And considering how deep the emotional spectrum is I think you would be doing this franchise a great disservice to think it won't inevitably happen in the future anyway
Also what makes you think that there's only two different types of ultra Forms???
We've seen people power up using the power of love, the power of friendship etc and honestly I think with potara fusion they can unlock something new altogether don't you?
@@brandonleemoss even if they did the fusion would last only for 10 seconds probably.
@@BeautifulRoppilol it's not impossible. All it takes is for the writer to want it to happen
They did vegito dirty with the fusion ending too fast saying if he use too much power they will unfused.
Dude, it depends on the Earings
Well you should be happy that potara earings can't control vegito's power , always see things from positive perspective 🙂
Hearing "you know how toriyama was" instead of "is" still just doesn't sit right
Would be neat to see Vegito/Gojeta ultra instinct someday, but that tier of power would probably solo everything else.
Gogeta (Z) is the original ultra instict and ego combined. Go look at Gogeta Vs Janemba and you will realize that that is the birth of ultra instict and ego. This Gogeta in super is a pussy and fake.
nah their form would be egotiscal instinct
@@Jamlord2061🤣💀
in short words: fusion SOLO
Edit: ok this had no reason to blow up and start a war in the comments fusion still solo
Edit 2: ok I didn’t think this would blow up this much didn’t think anyone would notice thanks for the likes tho
Facts
Other way around but okay
ui bodies them
Keep dreaming
@@sebastianamarebrown8671I don’t think he’s the one dreaming here
Ever since that GT short I cannot trust any of these powerscaling vids you make lmao
About the kefla scaling: Kefla was destroying ssg Goku because he was tired after fighting jiren
THANK YOU!
People are so stupid and just ignore that blatant fact.
The fact that she wasn’t “destroying” him as well, she still struggled
3:35
DB Toriyama: I think all of Goku’s friends are too… irresponsible so to say. I think we need to have someone who is able to properly look out for people, while also being interesting…
DBZ Toriyama: What’s a launch?
Bro knows the facts!
Love your video
For the thumbnail you should put Goku in the middle to make it look better
The POTARA fusion is definitely stronger than mui as it multiplies A(MAXIMUM STRENGTH) x B(MAXIMUM STRENGTH) = c(base).
I have no idea about the dance though
Fusions are just the peak of power in Dragon Ball. I would go as far as say that SSB would beat Beerus or at least give him a very close battle. Any higher form I'm confident it would.
The vegeta statement on jiren not being stronger then him and goku but just better at ki usage and control always rub me the wrong way as even if he had such refinement of ki it wouldn't allow him to utterly dog walk everyone around him and blue was stated to also be the peak of ki control and usage (ignore the manga for a minute) so sun wukong and prince vegetable who have access to the forms lack the refinement that jiren has? But then I remember this claim was followed by vegeta saying broly of all people had better ki control then them so to me a majority of super hero power scaling is BS
That thumbnail is Goated
4:35 WAS PURE FAACTS!!!!
SO TRUE LOL
That thumbnail was sick man
Bro whats with that Jujutsu Kaisen ahhh Thumbnail😂😂😂
Thank god someone said it
Shut up
Sup Hype Great Video!
8:55 I really like that Mastered UI is just like Kaioken. Techniques created by gods/angles that when mortals use it, Increases their strength and defense, but can only do so for a limited time or else it completely wrecks their body.
I’m so ready for Mastered Ui Fusions or Ultraegoinstinct😆 or Ultra Beast Instinct🗣👀🤯
In the anime Goku once enraged literally defeated Jiren with no sweat, while Gogeta with a super and 2 ultimates attacks couldnt even put Broly down until the kamehameha. Broly and Jiren have statements being as strong if not stronger than the gods, but this was Jiren in base not Awaken. Meaning Mui might be on an even higher tier than Broly and not only that but in the manga he states Moro 73 was the strongest foe meaning beyond Broly and Jiren. The same Moro who broke his hand with Gokus body, a level of superiority that even Gogeta didnt display with Broly. Vegito's Beerus statement doesnt matter since Broly, Jiren, and even Goku ui sign have similar claims of being beyond the gods of destruction or beerus. So yeah Goku is stronger than fusions with MUI. Also comparing Kefla to Gogeta or Vegito doesn make sense as she in base is supposed to be stronger than Kale full power whos on ssg/ssb tier.
8:02 hmm, chi-chi would love to know that UI hardens some of goku’s vital points
The fusion base form is as powerful as the fusees strongest form so for the broly movie it mean base gogeta>ssjg goku&vegeta
Love u DB🎉🎉🎉
0:56 the piccolo fusion is 25x Multiplier
Nail 43k + 3 500 piccolo x 25 = 1.1 mil
That’s not true. 3500 is piccolos last officially stated power level but that’s before he trained with king Kai. Piccolos power level also highly impressed nail. Do you really think nail with a power level of over 40,000 would be impressed by a mere 3500? Piccolos power level was closer to around 200,000 by the time he fuses with nail making it about a 5x boost
i wonder if you were to get an enitre race of namekians make them all split into twos, train untill near the end of their lifespan have one create a young namekian and fuse with the entire species how strong of a being would that create
THE EYE THING 🗣️ 🔥
Daizenshuu 7 states Potara is stronger than fusion.
Also Fusion dance fusions can also defuse early from straining their power (SSJ3 gotenks)
Daizenshuu is just a guide book, GUIDE book. Nothing about it is canon. Daizenshuu even contradicts itself many times within the same volume
@@shane7051 The daizenshuu is canon, you can cry about that all you want.
Elder kai also states that potara has a greater effect (power) than fusion in the manga.
Cope
@@OverlyEpuxtoriyama already stated that they're equal stop glazing the fraudtara earrings
@@johnstrife7 toriyama didnt state that.
A promo piece from V Jump did. V jump has also said that
Gogeta < Berserk Broly
Fusion Reborn Goku is weaker than 1st form frieza
I dont think you wanna start using V jump as a source. Stop glazing the weaker fusion. Daizenshuu 7 and the Z manga both state Potara is stronger.
Black frieza also states he is stronger than Gogeta blue, but he is confirmed weaker than beerus. However Vegito in the zamasu arc is stated to be stronget than beerus in the manga.
Vegito Blue (Zamasu)> Beerus > Black Frieza > Gogeta Blue (Broly)
@@OverlyEpuxi agree vegito is just better these gogeta kids wont stop glazing him even tho its obvious who will win.
The thumbnail went so hard 🥹
"Ultra instict has 2 flavors 😂”
When Jiren does that weird eye thingy 👁👁🤜🤜🤜🤜🤜🤜🤜🤜
That thumbnail is SO HARD
MUI being stronger than fusion was believable at a time. But then we get to the Tournament of power where not only is Kefla overpowered, but Vados states Potara takes the full power of both characters and multiplies their power by 10s of time for a base fusion. This means that canonically, base Vegito from the Goku Black arc was 10s of times stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta combined and went SSB on top of that. They think Goku and Vegeta alone scale above Vegito because of some statements made about Jiren but Vegeta saying Jiren was not much stronger is more recent so that takes more priority. Regardless of you believe this or not, for Goku to surpass Vegito from the black arc, he'd have to get billions of times stronger. Base fusions being stronger than the sum of their parts is further proven in Broly when Base Gogeta easily evades Broly's blasts and fights equally with him as a Super Saiyan.
This also proves that the Fusion Dance and Potara are equal in strength since both get dozens of times stronger than the max of the sum of their parts.
@@righteousone5119 I disagree since Potara has the rival boost and doesn't need characters to be equal in strength. Strength isn't everything though. The promotional material never actually said they were equally but that they were equally viable options which is true. Fusion dance can be redone after an hour, but if you fail with Potara, you're probably screwed. Additionally, Daizenshuu says Potara is indeed stronger, not just better and that's approved by Toriyama. The promotional material had nothing to do with Toriyama.
@@righteousone5119 Fusion Dance is pretty op too. Potara may be stronger but that doesn't necessarily mean better. Elder Kai would be biased but think of it like this. If Gogeta is up against a foe that can evade him enough so that he'll defuse, Gogeta can come back with knowledge of their tricks after an hour. Vegito will have more time, but unless they have another set of Potara earrings, they're screwed.
Goku + Vegeta in SSB lose to Broly
Gogeta SSJ is equal to Broly
Yep...
@@phantomrogue7894DBS: Broly promo piece describing Gogeta and Vegetto as “equally-matched ultimate trump cards”.
Lowering other power don't mean that power is gone.
Both equal confirmed,+ same person doing it.
Totally agree
But I feel like you forgot about one point, once Gogeta went Blue, Broly couldn't land a single hit, the gap in strength was insanely huge, even if UI goku is stronger than Broly I don't see it closing the gap to Gogeta Blue
also a side note, Gohan didn't win against Cell max alone, first his skull was cracked a bit due to one of the gamma's attack and Picolo was holding him, so it isn't really clear if he could win on his own especially if Max was conscious
fusions outspeed ui by far. that's all you need to know.
Cool thumbnail
There are several implications that the Ultra forms are near fusion level multipliers across all media
Anime
Dragon Ball Heroes
-Goku defeats Cumber who is shown on par with Xeno and Blue Vegetto
-Goku is confident that he could defeat Hearts if had access to UI it takes Blue Gogeta, Jiren, and Hit to do a feat Goku is confident he could do alone in Ui
- UI Goku bodies Ssj3 Goku Black who then powers up and Gogeta uses blue evolution which is at least 20x that of Blue to defeat him
-Jiren is superior to Cumber who beat two Vegetto and was shown holding his own against Xeno Broly who was shown battling Limit Breaker Vegetto and Blue Vegetto
Manga
-Fusion is suggested against Moro 73 but it is shut down because of forced spirit fission keep in mind you have to damage your opponent for the technique to work meaning Moro 73 is capable of damaging Gogeta something even Broly couldn't achieve this fusion level threat is destroyed by a refined Mui Goku and then further transforms and even then Goku was still confident against Angel Moro
-Granola arc Goku and Vegeta surpassed Broly
-Chapter 93 has Broly placed around the same level as other UI level characters such as Moro, Jiren, and Gas Broly was obviously a fusion-level threat
-it is implied in 102 that Ultimate Gohan is a fusion-level multiplier with Goten and Trunks attempting to use fusion to match it
-Beast Gohan defeats cell max which in raw power was comparable to Broly again Broly being a fusion-level threat
-Mui rivals Beast Gohan this speaks for itself
-A fatigued Beast Gohan has the upper hand on the fusion level threat Broly who in the manga doesn't have Lssj
Games
-Xenoverse Has Jiren going Equal with a stronger Broly who fought Gogeta
-DB Legends has Gogeta more interested in fighting Jiren than Broly
-Both Gogeta and Jiren are confident that Mui could defeat Lssj Broly
-Jiren beats Broly in a scuffle before being overpowered by Gogeta
-Establishes the scale of
Gogeta>>Mui>Jiren>Broly
Dragon ball heroes
-The arcade has Jiren fight Zamasu, Cumber, and Hearts at the same time three fusion level opponents
-Sparking Zero
-We will see Gogeta and Hercule fight Jiren I doubt Gogeta will not one-shot Jiren making them somewhat on par Jiren is obviously Mui-level
-Mui Goku will fight lssj Broly and most likely win
I like a lot of your points but the games and especially dragon ball heroes shouldn't be used for any canon facts.
That includes DB legends cause i assume you mean the story which is just an odd what if. Not completely shutting down your theory but you really shouldn't cite some of those as evidence yk?
And editing to clarify i mean both dragon ball heroes the game and the super dragon ball heroes anime
@@bardock7784 still official material and it gives us a hint of what the writers think of the hypothetical scenario
@@ty-ray1307 Almost none of which are the same writers? So that doesnt really make sense lol
@@ty-ray1307 if it was straight from toriyama i would more so agree but those writers have nothing to do with any canon content
@@bardock7784all respect to toriyama, but lets not act like everything he says is cannon as he messes up, forgets, and just contradicts himself quite a bit
Dbz is coming out with a new series
Wow thanks for the information, now that you mention it i think you got it right. But i wish ultra instinct and ultra ego would get an anime show off [lol]
Goku alone just doesn’t have the fighting mind that him and Vegeta as one warrior has. They’re the “ultimate warrior” when they fuse for a reason.
Can you do one where it's ultra ego
Same result
Its the same result tho unless if vegito or gogeta failed to one shot him it'll be some problem
Dbhype mark your days for having freaky Vegito in that thumbnail
Wow, zero views in zero seconds?
Nice video 💯👍😎
If it a current gogeta blue or vegito blue vs a current (using time machine to find another current goku) mui goku the fusion wins in my opinion both anime and manga. I feel like fusion is a+b’s strongest forms (that they can access) 10’s of times (so 30-100) is equal to base form fusion. Therefore for example broly movie gogeta cuz goku couldnt access ui when fused base gogeta is stronger than broly who was stronger than ssb. And this is fusion dance and it’s shown to be at least slightly weaker than potara and it still is stronger than the strongest form (accessible). So if a current fusion were to occur in the manga the fusion would be in base stronger than mui and ultra ego so yeah.
The Potara is (A+B)× 10 as what vados claimed.
For gogeta he said our powers aren't just added together, they're significantly magnified. Which u might think of the Potara Multiplier but that's wrong. Gogeta meant that Goku and Vegeta's power aren't just added together but they're magnified to each other which is A×B.
@@amirram8308 vados said (a+b) times tens-fold or tens of times (30-100) and gogeta isnt timesing ppls power together cuz then it would be like trillion times a trillion and gogeta would solo any1 basically if that was case. Additionally it said they aren’t JUST added together suggesting that they are added and times. So ik no confirmation but prob similar to vados statement as in (a+b) x 30-100 weather it less or more than vegito (prob less). Additionally vegito is stated to have a rival boost and u don’t need to be on the same power to fuse together hence why vegito is prob> gogeta who arl OP
@@Timmyk987 it does and it is A×B. Since vados claimed the potara earrings multiplier is (A×B)× tens of time but we can't take that into the account for gogeta since Magnifying Is the same as Multiplying and what he meant was their powers aren't just added together, but they're magnified to each other which means they're multiplied To Each other. Toriyama himself described Vegito as ( their power is amplified ) which means their powers will be added together and will get amplified to tens of time. Amplifying is different from magnifying which amplifying means the combined powers will get Multiplied to some amount but Magnifying means the two powers combined together by multiplying. And the fusion dance isn't dozens of times more powerful than Potara. The Vados said tens of times which means (100 or even slightly above like 1000) which means it will get closer to Gogeta since it was stated that Gogeta and Vegito are equal to each other since the users are also equal to each other. Vegito isn't stronger at all. The only Advantage Vegito has over gogeta is his time limit being about an hour. Otherwise Vegito will also defuse Midway/Midbattle and quicky due to having a power limit and transforming draining the timer even faster. But although the fusion dance only lasts for 30 guaranteed minutes, it doesn't have any power limits and could go full and beyond his power without any chance of getting defused
@@amirram8308 vegito is stronger than gogeta for 2 reasons. 1 for example gogeta is b+b x10s of times whereas vegitos is a+b x10s of times. What this means is that gogeta needs both fighters to be on the same power lvl. So if A is 10 and B is 8 A needs to go to 8 to fuse whereas vegito can have 10+8. Secondly vegito has a rivalry boost. Also vados statement is added together than multiplied. Again if gogeta was axb and power levels are in quadrillions then gogeta solos all. And is stronger than vegito which he isnt
@@Timmyk987 Vegito isn't stronger than Gogeta. it's Still Gogeta who's slightly stronger than Vegito. And u didn't even read what i said at all. First let's talk abt the Limits and Drawbacks of The Fusions. There was another Thing that stated in the black goku arc that If the potara fusion Transforms to a strong form, it will reduce the timer even lower. Not only that, if he uses too much power, he'll defuse midbattle due to how broken the Potara earrings are for the powerful mortals with Powerful and strong forms. Vegito defusing cuz of imperfected ssjb is an excuse that Vegito fans say to make Vegito an Unlimited Fusion. The overall reason is just cuz Vegito can't handle strong Forms And has a powerlimit. The drawbacks of Potara are more clear than the fusion dance. Like After u defuse u can't perform it for a while. But u can perform the fusion dance no matter what the situation is. Goku and Vegeta are Equal to each other that means they don't need to Lower their power which also means Gogeta and Vegito are equal. The only advantage Vegito has over gogeta is his time limit. Otherwise Gogeta is slightly stronger and more powerful and can go full and beyond his current power to end the opponent faster despite being only 30 mins as what he showed to us in the broly movie. Fusion dance limits are only having a equal and similar power levels ( which goku and Vegeta are equals so they don't need to lower their powers ) and perform the dance correctly. But U can't find Potara earrings everywhere. And just for a slight boost u'll defuse if u Transform to a strong and powerful form or if u use a powerful Attack/technique. Gogeta won't defuse even if their blue form was imperfect. It doesn't have a power limit at all. One of potara's Weaknesses is Using Too much power. The second is Transforming draining the potara timer even faster as what that Kai looking thing stated in the manga. If ur Saying "it was cuz of ssjb being imperfect" Then answer my question : if it was because of Imperfect ssjb, why Not and didn't goku Nor Vegeta tap out of the form and never run out of stamina Not a Single Time? If the imperfect ssjb relly drains the stamina?? If the ssjb Requires and drains more ki as if it is stronger which might drain ur stamina quicker and faster, why didn't they run out of stamina themselves?? Cuz it's not cuz of imperfected ssjb, it's cuz of Transforming draining the Potara earrings Timer ❤️❤️❤️❤️
"But what does he know, he thought they were permanent." lmao lmao
So fusion SOLO
In a fight no, but for reliability more than likely
@@CattusTheDevourerYes in a fight. It’s not a contest.
@@kingades1013 because MUI wins yeah we know, no need to start a conversation about it I've had like 3 already
Imo it depends, if they currently fuse then the fusions are superior but the power growth of the saiyans is crazy, especially when Goku surpassed omen 1 with omen 2 and surpassed omen 2 in his base ssgss as stated by Jiren then omen 3 being above all these and MUI who also grows in power after kuririn's pep talk this Goku and Vegeta would destroy the vegito blue in the black arc since he was struggling against zamas and shin stated Jiren is far and away the strongest they ever faced even above zamas merged with the timeline which was felt all the way in the present, in the broly movie it seems they got even stronger and when they fused Gogeta in base was waay stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in their full power, now the Moro arc Goku's power in MUI even made Beerus start complimenting Goku and from whis' reaction nobody gets that easily, Beerus never gave that form of respect or acknowledgement to Gogeta and he was there he just says they managed somehow, Now going into super hero Gohan states that Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to beat cell max with piccolo not disagreeing remember piccolo witnessed Gogeta blue and his power yet he still agrees they wouldn't be able to beat cell now let's go back a little to when Goku was talking to Moro he said Moro was the strongest one he has ever faced with him having memories of Gogeta's power yet he still said such a thing proving that in his state at the current time he was above fusion now at the end of the granolah arc black freezer one shots both Goku and Vegeta in their most powerful forms at the time and remember he witnessed Gogeta and his power and trained to surpass all of them he left Goku and Vegeta alive despite knowing first hand what power they can muster in short periods of time yet he is still confident that he would decimate them meaning he trained for a hypothetical ultra Gogeta or Vegito.
Point is currently I believe even their base god forms would destroy all the other past fusions but if they were to fuse now then it would be the opposite and this shows how crazy their growth in power actually is
I still think "Ultra" Gogeta or Vegito needs to be a thing.
It can’t be a thing
@@GuyVickat the very least, we could have Gogeta/Vegito swapping between Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct depending on what would be the most useful form in a given situation in a fight. Since they're a combination of Goku and Vegeta, they should atleast be capable of using UI and UE alone
@@righteousone5119 Exactly.
"Ultra" just means either one, or them having some Buddha level Zen, mastering the ☯️
It can't be. UI and UE are literal opposites and you can't mske them work together as the fusion would be evading the very same hits he needs to take in order to get stronger.
@@gokunenn4243 facts
Fusion multipliers are insane especially if the two fusees have some sort of connection/bond
According to the manga
Goku is way stronger than Broly
Let me explain
Gas and granola wish to become the strongest worrior in universe 7 and Goku and Vegeta continuous caught up with gas as the fight continue and even surpassed gas at some point bt coz of the wish to remain the strongest no matter wat gas grew stronger than Goku
This fact put Goku way stronger than Broly at this point
th-cam.com/users/shortsgP8L4-w-ST0?si=G19vLcqxTe_pia7X
I’m going to need the music used in this video, respectfully
DBHype, why are you completely ignoring the Dragon Ball Super anime? The continuity most people are familiar with and use.
For example you say that UI Isn't much stronger than SSB, because of the extremely odd statement in super hero that doesn't make any sense.
Why are you using this, instead of just using what actually happens in the TOP? In the TOP Jiren SOLOS SSBKKX20 Goku with ease no issue, this Jiren at FULL POWER, gets tossed like a toddler by MUI. So clearly the line in Super Hero doesn't make any sense at all with what happened in the TOP, so why are you using it, instead of what actually happened in the TOP?
Its about how they use there power
Even if you have greater energy if your opponent can still beat you if you exhaust yourself to fast or cant use the power to its fullest
cos anime scaling makes absolutely 0 sense, the manga is much more reliable
@@deku_6655 "Its about how they use there power"
What are you responding to?
@@supadokkaner6954 No???? In the anime MUI Goku surpassed Jiren, therefore surpasses the gods of destruction. This is consistent in the anime
In the manga, Belmod is comparable to Beerus, who is weaker than jiren, who is weaker than MUI goku, who is weaker than beerus by a MILE
See the GIGANTIC inconsistency here? How the heck is Beerus both comparable to Belmod, who is weaker than Jiren, and Jiren is weaker than MUI Goku, while also Beerus being stronger than MUI Goku by a MILE, it literally is objectively a retcon that makes zero sense
Tell me how
Beerus >>> MUI Goku > Jiren > Belmod = Beerus
How does this scale make any sense??
Simple. The anime is full of rhe usual Toei stupid inconsistencies including Krillin fighting SSB, or Goku Black skupping Super Saiyan despite the later being Toriyama's draft. Super Hero was literally written by Toriyama, so we go by what he actually wanted to happen. It fits with the manga as well.
6:50 Thank you for using Incomplete and Complete Ultra Instinct. (Or basically unawakened and awakened)
It's not the same as using Mastered. Complete (completed or awakened) is the better term to use. If Goku really had "Mastered" UI, he would have reached Whis's level but in reality that really didn't happen AND LET'S ALSO CONSIDER that the Tournament of power or T.O.P. didn't last a day or weeks or months but 1 hour, 1 hour right? 48 minutes, so saying that Goku "MASTERED" Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, or roughly 10-15min TO BE PRECISE, is a super huge stretch.
Seriously, why was the awakened ultra instinct named "Mastered" and not complete or awakened, like I mentioned just now.
Just like with Gohan... But I think Ultimate is better than using Mystic and Beast should have been named Ultra. Why Ultimate instead of Mystic (I think Zenkai would have been a better name), because ultimate is supposed to represent and means "the pinnacle of something". The top of the top. Final. The best achievable or imaginable. And why should Gohan's Beast form be named Ultra and not Ultimate? Because Beast form is like a Hyper or Ultra form of a Super Saiyan. (And this concept was borrowed in Dragon Ball Multiverse and the creators giving Goku & Vegeta a new transcendental Super Saiyan form)
NOT THAT IT IS SUPER SAIYAN or related to it BUT that's what it seems to be. I mean... Spiky hair, color changes and the user is from the saiyan race (though hybrid) so yeah. Another iteration of Super Saiyan forms. That's what it gives, the feeling, what we see, what it seems to be.
Knowing Google exists allows me to easily answers this question, the second definition Google provides is to gain control over something which is very accurate to the interpretation in the T.O.P. So based on the definition the names we are looking for is controlled or “Autonomous Ultra Instinct” especially since attacks are fully autonomous in this variant.
@@Arichson No the description he uses if how the forms are officially recognized. There is only ui sign/ omen that whis describes as the gate ay to ui, and then the actual technique manifest as a form which is what silvered hair ui is.
Bro, it IS called Completed Ultra Instinct.
It has NEVER been officially called "Mastered" Ultra Instinct.
@maxdrags3115 it's officially referred to as just ultra instinct. Ui sign is incomplete so in a sense your still right.
its simple, Gogeta is a movie form, Vegito and Ultra instinct are anime forms, Gogeta by default wins by budget standards 🤓
“🤓”
who drew the thumbnail it looks awesome
Its not even a debate...... Fusion is strongest than ui
Yeah
**cough cough** vegitos stronger **cough cough**
@@Turkey-fq5lv bro you literally heard it from DB hype Gogeta is stronger
@@GokuDB-ur6ky idc what hype says, potara has been stated multiple times to be stronger than the dance and vegito has the rivalry boost
@@Turkey-fq5lv elder Kai knows nothing about the dance plus they are basically equal
Could you do "What if Goku & Vegeta never attained God ki?" i know you don't really do what-ifs anymore, but i havent seen anyone else do this yet, and you're the best "what-iffer" that i know of. Realistically they would die by beerus if they didnt attain god ki, but i wanna see what you would come up with. im guessing in your what-if, they would go down a primal path, similiar to ssj4 or ssj5(fanfic).
Without God Ki, those two are probably left in the dust with no hope of catching up. When you think of how Frieza, Broly and Gohan (among others) reach such ridiculous levels WITHOUT God Ki, it ALMOST makes Goku and Vegeta look like frauds.
fusion is litterally a multiplier between the host’s strength, UI goku cant win because they LITTERALLY have ui’s strength + more bc of vegeta 💀
where did you find the thumbnail? that jjk reference looks sick!
Gogeta even defeated hearts (who wanted to defeat zeno sama) in DBS super hero arc only released in Japan
Wut..
Not in the DBS super hero arc only in the Super dragon Ball heroes storyline arc in which takes place in a entirely different continuity.
You're talking about Super Dragon Ball Heroes, not Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, 2 completely different storylines.
SDBH is a storyline that split off from 2 storylines, one from DBGT, and the other from the anime version of DBS.
Hearts never appeared in DBS.
Amazing 🎉🎉
It's fusion straight up
Yes but no
@@CattusTheDevoureryes but yes lol
@@cameronstevens2053 you're a week late
@@CattusTheDevourer you cannot be late in a comment section, that’s why there’s no time limit on who can comment. But you tried
@cameronstevens2053 someone commented on a reply from a year ago.
Whatever you're on, please stay away from it.
I have to say that Way too many times to people.
Yah the eye thingy was really a pain
The eye thingy is the ultimate technique that not even zeno can master it
Gohan was so powerful that ultra instinct stopped dodging automatically. Fussion is more powerful
Gohan is stronger than fusion as well at least broly movie gogeta
@@ohhellwhereami2574 I saw a statement somewhere that Cell Max is around at Brolys power, and Gohan literally didnt even flinch when fighting Cell Max in his beast form, so Gohan is equal or stronger than Gogeta(Broly Movie), so yeah
The thing is: fusion gets stronger if the 2 fused characters also get stronger.
So it’s something that never can reached by one fused person alone
if both fusion participants have different mindsets then mindset based transformations can’t or shouldn’t work gogeta/vegito shouldn’t be able to use UE or MUI(transformation, technique still should be possible there)
that and if the people doing the fusion via potara are too strong that fusion will end in such a short period of time that it becomes useless, can’t remember if the metamorman one has the same limit with being too strong
Vegito is the strongest ❤❤❤
I think by this point Toriyama was basically done with power scaling. What I'm seeing is that super Saiyan blue and the other forms comparable to it are basically the same tier of power, like a soft ceiling, and victory and defeat is basically dependent on your skill. Just like how top tier MMA fighters arent separated much by their physical strength but rather their skill and experience. Therefore, the idea with ultra instinct is that it bypasses the need for experience such that all your reactions are "perfect" and contains no openings.
Using sdbh in this debate would be helpful
hell no
@@SRN_RANGER why not?
@@zguy.1sbecause it’s not canon
It's also inconsistent
@@bxnnel Cannon to it's own Timeline plus it's the Same Techniques even if they are different version of Goku
Those jjk poses are still hitting
06:35 Tell that to the powerscalers who insist that UI is a x 999999999999999999999999999999999999999 multiplier
I saw that those numbers too 😭
@@LibtarDemonRat Nah thats some insane downplay on UI, i dont think its the whatever the fuck *THAT* number the OP said but its def WAYYYY past a million
You have time to read? Cause I can explain why using Super Saiyan God's multiplier and Super Vegito
SSG >> Super Vegito Post Buu Arc (possibly a SSJ3 Vegito)
SSG >> Super Vegito > Base Vegito is >> SSJ3 Goku
SSJ3 multiplier is 400x. So on the LOWEST BALL POSSIBLE, Vegito would be also be 400x, meaning 400*50 which is a 20,000x multiplier for Super Vegito. Now Lets say for the sake of easier arguments that SSG is equal and not higher multiplier than Super Vegito from the Buu Arc (even though he very much is) and that Goku and Vegeta didn't get stronger at all. This mean SSGSS multiplier is 20,000x times 50 (its SSG but SSJ, so 50x again --> 20,000*50)
This makes SSGSS multiplier already 1,000,000x which is already past your theory. Then you do 20x to that and its 20,000,000x multiplier. This is the *LOWEST BALL POSSIBLE*
UI sign was doing leagues better than Blue KKx20, so using this low ball, I'd say its multiplier would be 40,000,000 and MUI as a lowball only being double that at 80,000,000
I know I said it a lot but THIS IS A LOW BALL, which I just wanna further emphasize
@@PricklyPringle12 ui omen fight on par with jiren then jiren power up to the point his aura cover arena itself and charged ki blast that was meant to end ui omen goku then goku turn mui and vaporised that blast completely out of existence by just move finger a little in ep129 so the gap between ui omen and mui has to be very massive
Why not both, ui vegito
one small detail you missed is that Gohan Beasts fight with ultra instinct Goku. Goku wasn’t trying to fight seriously he was measly trying to see how strong he was, if he was fighting seriously it would have been a different story
16:04 could have use db heroes too when its clear than gogeta >> mui or jiren
Potara fusions are more powerful than their Dance counterparts because the fighters have to match their power level (decrease it) in order to do the fusion dance and the power of the fusion doesn't have it maximum power making them weaker than potara fusions because both current power levels of the warriors combine and multiply, while potara fusions dont have such matching power level restrictions.
you forgot about vegito but here what would happend vegito would absoulty destroy ui goku
He would not
@@ImaPullThruyes he would
Vegito or Gogeto aren't doing crap to UI Goku, and you can't prove otherwise.
@DBnationx Nope, and you can't prove it.
@@maxdrags3115 do you really think that a fusion of goku and vegeta multiplied with multiplied speed cant beat a ui goku
Fusion/merging just puts together both characters, adds their overall power plus their potential and multiplies it by 10.
The thing with UI sign Is that we see Jiren handle SSJBKKX20 Goku and SSJBE Vegeta, Android 17 who’s equal to ssjb Goku as with Golden Frieza. And we can see in some points Jiren and UI Goku are near the same in terms of power and other hax.
In the manga SSJB Perfected Goku uses some technique we don’t know about or the multiplier but he seems to do way better using that technique than he and the Z fighters did against Jiren in the anime.
Another good point is the fact Ikari Broly seems slightly weaker than ssjb Goku yet closes the gap with ssj. He should actually be just as strong as both of them in his ssj.
So Gogeta blue is weaker or somewhere near the same strength as Goku UI sign.
Gogeta blue would wipe the floor with mui goku
I feel like the reason why Black Frieza form was created was to basically topped Both MUI and Ultra Ego so that they would require to fuse to beat him. The thing is as Goku and Vegeta gets stronger their fusion form will be even stronger as well, also retconning in DB is a thing so we dont really know for sure. Also we dont even know the full strength of Beerus cause he never shown it to anyone beside Whis. Any statement about "Might be Stronger than beerus" isnt mean anything.
cringe thumbnail
Why?
Bruh
@@bepbobbap not everything needs to be a reference, that stuff is cringe. Just keep it dragon ball.
@@HIHi-os1lr so what's the reference?
I think it's a Jujutsu kaisen reference from yuji and Todo Vs mahito@@bepbobbap
Vegito looking mad freaky in that thumbnail
just bec goku said fusing w vegeta wont be enough doesnt mean its weaker than ssg, even when goku reached ssg he said its a lvl of power he never thought he could reach on his own which means fusion could hypothetically match or surpass it and even ssg wasnt enough against beerus, hypothetical ssj3 vegito would slam ssg goku
Not to mention, in the movie broly went full power but against gohan he was using some power to control it.
I want fusion to be phased out in future story lines because it feels like a cheap get out of a jail card. And the one way I can see that happening is Gogeta/Vegito can’t access those forms because UI and UE are the opposite of each other and therefore incompatible. This means they’ll only be able to access Blue when fused and not UI/UE, forcing more strategic story telling like in the Frieza and Cell arc.
I think when Vegeta mentioned Jiren's power isn't that different from them, yet he was so amazing... he was saying Jiren's power during ToP is not that much different from theirs IN the DBS: Super Heroes Arc, yet they are still not as good as him. And not saying Jiren was equal to them in terms of raw power during ToP.
Since Broly, Moro, Granolah and Super Heroes, 4 Arcs have passed since ToP, they are over 10,000 times stronger than they were during ToP and they have become relative to Jiren in terms of raw power. Though my theory will indirectly hints that UI is quite a bit more than 10,000 times stronger than Super Saiyan Blue.
PS: For those who don't know where I get the 10,000x, its based off Goku needing SSJBKKx10 to draw with Hit in their 1st fight but only needed SSJB alone to draw with him in their 2nd fight, 1 Arc later. So to simplify, I just use Broly = 10x, Moro = 100x, Granolah = 1000x and Super Heroes = 10,000x stronger than themselves in ToP.
What if Whis would get a run for his money if not lose to UI Gogeta or UI Vegito. It'd be crazy.