Yes, ironically yes. I have a degree in game dev since 2018 and I'm still not working in the industry. I've already accepted that I can't join any game dev company withou a game published yet to show them my work
I went to a game dev school (Chris actually gave a talk for our IGDA chapter!) and can definitively say that the classes and curriculum did mostly nothing for me. I had 1 really good professor in my concentration and we had an on-campus organization that got me internships and lots of real-life experience. I don't necessarily regret going because of all the opportunities I got, but I had to do it all on my own time outside of school - the actual classes I paid for were not worth the money I spent. And the kicker - I don't work in games, I work in software. Oh, and the school I went to is likely going to close down so that's fun.
Most education is a scam, like many say here. That being said, I am in a gamedev college( that also teaches other things) that won't let me graduate without getting an internship. Our capstone is literally making a 3D game, so it'll put me through the wringer
Its been a year since your game released. Can we get an update on your sales and how you feel about the launch/marketing and would you do anything different. And did you do anything to sell more copies throughout the year?
Go for Graphic Design or Computer Science instead. Game Design is vague and doesn't make it obvious what skills you have that a company wants. Plus, you won't be pigeonholed into one industry in which you're not guaranteed a job anyway. Take Game Design classes if you want, but don't pick it as your major.
I'll just stick to programming since that is what I know. Technologies come and go, but programming more or less stays the same. There are new languages with new nifty features and computers can do more things, but a computer-science degree that focusses on math and programming will last you better than any school teaching the latest tools (which you can pick up in a month or two if you know the basics). You need to know how algorithm complexity works, state machines, automata theory, imperative programming, object-oriented programming, functional programming, logic programming; it helps to know how operating systems work and be able to write a simple one, how compilers work and how to write a simple one. If you do this in Rust, or Ada, or Go, or C++ is less important. The core fundamentals remain the same. If I were to go into games programming, I'd still look at a solid foundations in computer science and from there move to develop the types of games that I want. Now, most game devs that I've talked to say that degrees matter much less than your resume. If you have been writing mods for a long time you can get hired with or without a degree. But if you're asked to optimise a program and you can't tell the difference between a linear, a quadratic, or an exponential algorithm then you have a problem.
I am in a university MultiMedia/GameGesign branch and can say that in the end no one cares about the degree. And actually everyone knows that. No one enrolls in a school with the hope of getting a job because the degree sounds good. At least I don't know anyone who does that. Why you go to schools like this outside of America is because there is no other way to generate any attention on yourself at all. If you are an American GameDev it sounds much better on paper than someone from Europe. It sounds banal but that's just the way it is. Since the biggest game scene is in America, you better get someone from there and not from overseas. To be seen at all by bigger companies you have to shine. And such a piece of paper together with the education looks better than having nothing at all.
That's honestly, a pretty simple and reasonable way to explain it. I would argue about "making a game or 2 in that time is better" but considering all the variables/chances (aka procrastinating) I cant really disagree that your way of thinking is more solid.
Absolutely not. Full Sail is a for-profit university, meaning they do not have your best interest in mind - they want to get as much money out of you as possible. They're very expensive and from what I hear, they're not properly accredited so some of your credits won't transfer to other schools. If you're 100% set on game dev programs, USC is a lot better from what I hear. Otherwise, I'd say to do something else to get the degree and learn game animation online outside of school. It's like Tim and Chris said - game studios don't care what your degree is, they care if you can do the thing.
I'm not sure about a scam but I don't think they teach properly. I have worked with right out of college and a couple years out of college kids and there is one very common mistake they always make. They are more concerned with how something is done rather than getting it done. Making a meeting to make a meeting. I once got critiqued, "you should make it in zbrush." That is not helpful. There are a thousand ways to make a game but when you teach to only create one way then you are severely limiting your students. Personally I went to the DAVE School when it was hard and a trade school. That pressure they put on me was the best thing I could of ever done for myself. What I learned in a day was more than a year of trying to teach myself. So if you can find a trade school like the DAVE School was, you will be golden.
Frankly, you can learn better and faster doing a good online course. It's more direct too without the needless fluff that college forces on you. Unless you go to an Ivy League school, the only thing college is good for is networking.
You're fools if you don't think education to the point of earning degree won't; benefit you in life. "Getting hired" out of college and "being able to do a specific thing" has nothing to do with the rest of your actual life. Very bad advice in this video.
The point of the video was basically "the education you get (related to game dev*) in 3 years of college is equivalent to 1 year of studying by yourself, a gamedev degree isnt worth it the time and money"
@@imnotgoodwithnames8502 And the point of my comment was specifically "not what you can learn the quickest" - there is far more value in your life from what you get out of college than what you get learning about a state machine in 1 month.
@@b-l1969 Fair, what you say is actually correct, but problem is that you and me are argueing about different points. They never hated on colleges, *they do have valuable stuff to teach,* they just hated in "game dev focused" degrees. -Btw, I edited in "(parentheses)" my first comment to make it clearer, but yeah you right about colleges giving valuable experience, just not the gamedev degree :v
Yes, ironically yes. I have a degree in game dev since 2018 and I'm still not working in the industry. I've already accepted that I can't join any game dev company withou a game published yet to show them my work
Like a lot of major education. It often is.
I went to a game dev school (Chris actually gave a talk for our IGDA chapter!) and can definitively say that the classes and curriculum did mostly nothing for me. I had 1 really good professor in my concentration and we had an on-campus organization that got me internships and lots of real-life experience. I don't necessarily regret going because of all the opportunities I got, but I had to do it all on my own time outside of school - the actual classes I paid for were not worth the money I spent. And the kicker - I don't work in games, I work in software. Oh, and the school I went to is likely going to close down so that's fun.
Most education is a scam, like many say here.
That being said, I am in a gamedev college( that also teaches other things) that won't let me graduate without getting an internship.
Our capstone is literally making a 3D game, so it'll put me through the wringer
short version: yes
Its been a year since your game released. Can we get an update on your sales and how you feel about the launch/marketing and would you do anything different. And did you do anything to sell more copies throughout the year?
I gained a considerable amount of debt because of college. That's what I gained.
Go for Graphic Design or Computer Science instead. Game Design is vague and doesn't make it obvious what skills you have that a company wants. Plus, you won't be pigeonholed into one industry in which you're not guaranteed a job anyway. Take Game Design classes if you want, but don't pick it as your major.
-A man of culture, I see- honestly yeah, just go Computer Science and study on your own in the side, that shit goes along with everything
college education is out dated.
I'll just stick to programming since that is what I know.
Technologies come and go, but programming more or less stays the same. There are new languages with new nifty features and computers can do more things, but a computer-science degree that focusses on math and programming will last you better than any school teaching the latest tools (which you can pick up in a month or two if you know the basics).
You need to know how algorithm complexity works, state machines, automata theory, imperative programming, object-oriented programming, functional programming, logic programming; it helps to know how operating systems work and be able to write a simple one, how compilers work and how to write a simple one.
If you do this in Rust, or Ada, or Go, or C++ is less important. The core fundamentals remain the same. If I were to go into games programming, I'd still look at a solid foundations in computer science and from there move to develop the types of games that I want.
Now, most game devs that I've talked to say that degrees matter much less than your resume. If you have been writing mods for a long time you can get hired with or without a degree. But if you're asked to optimise a program and you can't tell the difference between a linear, a quadratic, or an exponential algorithm then you have a problem.
I am in a university MultiMedia/GameGesign branch and can say that in the end no one cares about the degree. And actually everyone knows that. No one enrolls in a school with the hope of getting a job because the degree sounds good. At least I don't know anyone who does that. Why you go to schools like this outside of America is because there is no other way to generate any attention on yourself at all. If you are an American GameDev it sounds much better on paper than someone from Europe. It sounds banal but that's just the way it is. Since the biggest game scene is in America, you better get someone from there and not from overseas. To be seen at all by bigger companies you have to shine. And such a piece of paper together with the education looks better than having nothing at all.
That's honestly, a pretty simple and reasonable way to explain it. I would argue about "making a game or 2 in that time is better" but considering all the variables/chances (aka procrastinating) I cant really disagree that your way of thinking is more solid.
Hey, I wanna go to full sail university for game development, but I wanna go and do art like 2d gane animation. Is that a good choice or not?
Absolutely not. Full Sail is a for-profit university, meaning they do not have your best interest in mind - they want to get as much money out of you as possible. They're very expensive and from what I hear, they're not properly accredited so some of your credits won't transfer to other schools. If you're 100% set on game dev programs, USC is a lot better from what I hear. Otherwise, I'd say to do something else to get the degree and learn game animation online outside of school. It's like Tim and Chris said - game studios don't care what your degree is, they care if you can do the thing.
Well, now im happy i studied something different
I'm not sure about a scam but I don't think they teach properly. I have worked with right out of college and a couple years out of college kids and there is one very common mistake they always make. They are more concerned with how something is done rather than getting it done. Making a meeting to make a meeting. I once got critiqued, "you should make it in zbrush." That is not helpful.
There are a thousand ways to make a game but when you teach to only create one way then you are severely limiting your students.
Personally I went to the DAVE School when it was hard and a trade school. That pressure they put on me was the best thing I could of ever done for myself. What I learned in a day was more than a year of trying to teach myself. So if you can find a trade school like the DAVE School was, you will be golden.
This is soo true, watching the full podcast now
Frankly, you can learn better and faster doing a good online course. It's more direct too without the needless fluff that college forces on you. Unless you go to an Ivy League school, the only thing college is good for is networking.
I'd say it's a scam, but I'm still in college 🙃.
T. brush *cough*
Can confirm.
Facial hair helped Tim. It is NOT helping Chris...
Nice ;D
You're fools if you don't think education to the point of earning degree won't; benefit you in life.
"Getting hired" out of college and "being able to do a specific thing" has nothing to do with the rest of your actual life.
Very bad advice in this video.
Kinda hard to live the rest of your life without getting hired somewhere...We kinda need money to live?
The point of the video was basically "the education you get (related to game dev*) in 3 years of college is equivalent to 1 year of studying by yourself, a gamedev degree isnt worth it the time and money"
@@imnotgoodwithnames8502 And the point of my comment was specifically "not what you can learn the quickest" - there is far more value in your life from what you get out of college than what you get learning about a state machine in 1 month.
@@b-l1969 Fair, what you say is actually correct, but problem is that you and me are argueing about different points. They never hated on colleges, *they do have valuable stuff to teach,* they just hated in "game dev focused" degrees.
-Btw, I edited in "(parentheses)" my first comment to make it clearer, but yeah you right about colleges giving valuable experience, just not the gamedev degree :v