Fascinating episode. It is important to look into the original sources as you have done. Kudos to Ron. It does not change my opinion of Brigham Young overall as an irredeemable racist. The white savior servitude compromise was clever, if still appalling. It does add a lot of nuance and perspective that there were indeed abolitionists among the Utah Mormon leadership. This would make some sense given how many were northerners. That said, being anti-slavery is not the same thing as antiracist. However, for that time period the quotes from Pratt were quite progressive. Also, the distinction between Native Peoples and African Americans in law and attitudes - both prejudiced but due to different rationales - is something I missed as a NeverMo for a long time. It really comes out here, too. People are complicated. 160 years after the Civil War the political struggles and direct consequences are still playing out.
SUPERB at every turn!!! At first I started to turn off, but then realized you were reading from Wormtongue's conflatulations. Your observations (Rebecca and Landon), as always both ASTUTE and hilarious before you even finish a sentence. 💕🎉💕🎉💕🎉 Many thanks.
Yeah, it was tough going through Brigham Young's quotes. Many of them seemed contradictory too, so it made things harder to figure out what he real ideas were.
@whites. For all their BLACK and WHITE literalism, they are governed by a hard-drive compulsion to LIE and pretend everyone else will account their loopy linguistics as sheer genius by which they cover their malevolent motives presented as with great good intentions. And perfectly logical, to boot!
@Wren. And he was a TRULY beautiful MIND. An even greater threat to js and b.y. It is astonishing, however, how such as Orson can be - so often are - "outdone" by likes of truly base men. It seems to be, empirically, the default fate of mankind. "Good" guys almost always finish last. If at all. 😶😶
Totally off subject: I was invited to an LDS memorial and looked up the address. This listing from “Church of Jesus Christ”. (Only when you click in do you see it’s LDS - does that count as a victory for satan?) “Attend church at 144 West 15th Street to reflect, worship God, strengthen your spiritual connections, and focus on Jesus ...” WHAAAT? Focus on Jesus? Not in the church I grew up in. One of the reviews said he learned about their history and PROFITS. 😀 I’m convinced RMN bought a fancy business development plan that recommended emphasizing Jesus then drizzle converts with the crazy sh*t gradually.
The European individuals who owned American plantations knew slavery was coming to an end in America when the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 was ratified in Great Britain. Under British Admiralty Law, they could establish a religious “Denomination” as a tax free shelter for their wealth to be transferred into. The explosion of new denominations during the “Second Great Awakening” historical period were protected under Admiralty Law. The LDS Church has a CEO or corporate “president” for this very reason. Many religious denominations in America are Masonic corporations…incorporated by Freemason and Jesuit bankers. The mandatory tithes can be used for financial and banking leverage-even the leverage to borrow long term on the potential earnings of members. This is why the LDS never updates their member rolls despite members no longer being active. 💰💰💰
@grand. IF so, then EVEN SO, MOMO keeps up declaring that it is, ALONE and SINGULARLY, the most correct and acceptable church on Earth. THEY SET THE BAR by which they mean to be both INCOMPARABLE and, there- fore, THEY MUST BE JUDGED BY THEIR OWN "STANDARDS". And THEY FAIL. DISMALLY and irreparably.
Concerning all this bigoted tripe trotted out by LD$ Inc... I was just told by a TBM that it was all just "policy" not doctrine. And they went on to say that today's prophet trump former prophets and all these changes is a further testament Christ leads the church and is changing it all as needed.
My Mormon sister trots out the policy v doctrine rubbish too. Completely missing the point in my opinion. In this case the Jesus I know would never have been okay with treating people like this in the first place.
If past prophets were wrong, and today’s prophet trump past prophets, who’s to say today’s prophet isn’t also wrong and tomorrow’s prophets will correct him. In other words what good is a prophet if he can’t get it right in real time? Members would be better off developing their own moral compass to follow, rather than relying on prophets who don’t seem to have one.
While the video is informative, it is too bad that the hosts have an axe to grind. It is my experience that the LDS, Community of Christ and The Church of Jesus Christ Restoration Branch have worked in cooperation to show the Kirtland temple and have been giving balanced explanations of this sacred place. A lot of speculative discussions to which explanations from all points of view exist. The mild demonization of the LDS by the hosts really subtracts from an otherwise good video. Most of the questions posed by the female host are in fact answered long ago by the respective points of view. The male host takes the low road and gives colloquial opinions and banter that shows he really COULD be more objective but wants to express his disdain for the LDS faith in general. His conclusions on WHY the Utah church passed on some properties and bought others is pure prejudicial option. It still has some good material despite all this sad commentary.
Servitude vs slavery is like polygamy vs spiritual wifery. Changing the name doesn’t change the thing.
@Wren. Wormtongue
SOAKING.
Ding ding ding!!!
My questions about parley Pratt got me kicked out of seminary more than once. Why couldn’t they just answer? Now I know. Thank you Ron!
Hahaha, they only seem to like questions that can be answered with "faith, prayer & read the scriptures" 😅
I'm glad I watched this episode,the information is so amazing and horrifying,wow!
They gaslight now about this disgraceful doctrine..brigham young was an absolute piece of work.😢
The Mexican government abolished the slave trade in 1824 and the institution of slavery in 1829.
Fascinating episode. It is important to look into the original sources as you have done. Kudos to Ron. It does not change my opinion of Brigham Young overall as an irredeemable racist. The white savior servitude compromise was clever, if still appalling. It does add a lot of nuance and perspective that there were indeed abolitionists among the Utah Mormon leadership. This would make some sense given how many were northerners. That said, being anti-slavery is not the same thing as antiracist. However, for that time period the quotes from Pratt were quite progressive. Also, the distinction between Native Peoples and African Americans in law and attitudes - both prejudiced but due to different rationales - is something I missed as a NeverMo for a long time. It really comes out here, too. People are complicated. 160 years after the Civil War the political struggles and direct consequences are still playing out.
So impressed with Mormon.ish ❤️ Rebecca and Landon!
Ron, as always, is a fantastic guest!
Hey, Ron. I learned some things today. Thanks.
SUPERB at every turn!!! At first I started to turn off, but then realized you were reading from Wormtongue's conflatulations.
Your observations (Rebecca and Landon), as always both ASTUTE and hilarious before you even finish a sentence.
💕🎉💕🎉💕🎉 Many thanks.
Yeah, it was tough going through Brigham Young's quotes. Many of them seemed contradictory too, so it made things harder to figure out what he real ideas were.
This is fascinating information! Thank you! The only thing more interesting is Ron’s smoking jacket and pipe prop. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Please watch Hell on Wheels. It goes over BR and Utah railroad history. It will blow your mind.
Excellent content on Mormon black and white thinking and culture👏
@whites. For all their
BLACK and WHITE
literalism,
they are governed by a hard-drive compulsion to LIE and pretend everyone else will account their loopy linguistics as sheer genius by which they cover their malevolent motives presented as with great good intentions. And perfectly
logical, to boot!
Is it just me, or was Orson Pratt kind of hot? Joseph didn’t stand a chance with Sarah.
@Wren. And he was a
TRULY beautiful
MIND.
An even greater
threat to js and b.y. It is astonishing, however, how such as Orson can be - so often are - "outdone" by likes
of truly base men. It seems to be, empirically, the default fate
of mankind.
"Good" guys almost always finish last.
If at all. 😶😶
Rebecca and Landon, It was my pleasure to meet you at Thrive. You are both lovely people! Barry
We enjoyed meeting you as well Barry! Thanks for your kind words.
Totally off subject: I was invited to an LDS memorial and looked up the address. This listing from “Church of Jesus Christ”. (Only when you click in do you see it’s LDS - does that count as a victory for satan?)
“Attend church at 144 West 15th Street to reflect, worship God, strengthen your spiritual connections, and focus on Jesus ...” WHAAAT? Focus on Jesus? Not in the church I grew up in. One of the reviews said he learned about their history and PROFITS. 😀
I’m convinced RMN bought a fancy business development plan that recommended emphasizing Jesus then drizzle converts with the crazy sh*t gradually.
The European individuals who owned American plantations knew slavery was coming to an end in America when the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 was ratified in Great Britain. Under British Admiralty Law, they could establish a religious “Denomination” as a tax free shelter for their wealth to be transferred into. The explosion of new denominations during the “Second Great Awakening” historical period were protected under Admiralty Law. The LDS Church has a CEO or corporate “president” for this very reason. Many religious denominations in America are Masonic corporations…incorporated by Freemason and Jesuit bankers. The mandatory tithes can be used for financial and banking leverage-even the leverage to borrow long term on the potential earnings of members. This is why the LDS never updates their member rolls despite members no longer being active. 💰💰💰
Only Freemasons had slaves. Only Freemasons we're landowners.
Some of those BY quotes are SO cringe!!!! Yikes 🫣
Landan, check out the book, "Indian Slavery in Colonial America" . It was a very common practice and just as disgusting.
@grand. IF so, then EVEN SO,
MOMO keeps up declaring
that it is, ALONE and SINGULARLY, the most
correct and acceptable church on Earth. THEY SET THE BAR
by which they mean to be both
INCOMPARABLE and, there- fore, THEY MUST BE JUDGED BY THEIR OWN "STANDARDS".
And THEY FAIL.
DISMALLY and irreparably.
slaves aren't paid and wouldn't tithe. Church leaders would want wage earning members
Concerning all this bigoted tripe trotted out by LD$ Inc... I was just told by a TBM that it was all just "policy" not doctrine. And they went on to say that today's prophet trump former prophets and all these changes is a further testament Christ leads the church and is changing it all as needed.
My Mormon sister trots out the policy v doctrine rubbish too. Completely missing the point in my opinion. In this case the Jesus I know would never have been okay with treating people like this in the first place.
Hint that you don't approve of closed door masterbation details demands of children as young as seven, and that masterbation isn't next to murder.
If past prophets were wrong, and today’s prophet trump past prophets, who’s to say today’s prophet isn’t also wrong and tomorrow’s prophets will correct him. In other words what good is a prophet if he can’t get it right in real time? Members would be better off developing their own moral compass to follow, rather than relying on prophets who don’t seem to have one.
@@Wren402 agreed, they are wrong. All of them.
While the video is informative, it is too bad that the hosts have an axe to grind. It is my experience that the LDS, Community of Christ and The Church of Jesus Christ Restoration Branch have worked in cooperation to show the Kirtland temple and have been giving balanced explanations of this sacred place. A lot of speculative discussions to which explanations from all points of view exist. The mild demonization of the LDS by the hosts really subtracts from an otherwise good video. Most of the questions posed by the female host are in fact answered long ago by the respective points of view. The male host takes the low road and gives colloquial opinions and banter that shows he really COULD be more objective but wants to express his disdain for the LDS faith in general. His conclusions on WHY the Utah church passed on some properties and bought others is pure prejudicial option. It still has some good material despite all this sad commentary.
What a load of Mormon Apologist crap to try to change Church history.