Cafelat Robot vs Flair Pro: The Best Manual Espresso Maker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- We’re currently going through a renaissance for manual espresso machines.
In recent years we have seen a bunch of exciting lever espresso makers, all capable of making genuine crema-covered shots.
However, two models have emerged as the most popular ones: Cafelat Robot and Flair Espresso.
Shop Robot at Prima Coffee ($449)
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CAFELAT ROBOT VS FLAIR PRO ESPRESSO MAKER
I have reviewed the Flair in another post (link below) but to be entirely fair, you’d have to make distinctions between the basic Flair (Signature) and the “Pro” version in comparison to the Robot.
The Flair Signature is significantly cheaper than the Robot - at the time of writing, it’s just one-third of its rival’s price.
That puts it in a different category with entirely different expectations. If you wish to dabble a bit in espresso without committing too much, then this is the obvious entry point.
The Flair Pro is closer to the Robot in terms of price. The shots of the two devices are close in terms of quality; however, there are some small advantages that tip the scales towards the Robot as my overall favorite. See the video for the full explanation or read the review below.
(Disclaimer: I'm using the 1st iteration of the Flair Pro basket, which has a shorter collar compared to the newest version. This should help to mitigate separation as a result of pressure release after the brew)
Cafelat Robot review:
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Flair Pro & Flair Signature Review
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Please note: The Flair used in the video is the first version of the 'Pro'. Since then an updated version has been released. However, my points in the comparison are still valid since the "Pro 2" is mostly a minor update. It still requires extensive preheating and has the same work flow.
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Which one are you going to get? 😊
Robot review: coffeechronicler.com/cafelat-robot-review
Flair Review: (Signature & Pro) coffeechronicler.com/flair-espresso-maker-review/
I have the Flair Pro, and quite like it. The Robot also looks neat. I use my Flair with the Kanso Hiku grinder, and get some nice shots of espresso. I am still dealing it in, and I have to work on the consistency a bit, however.
robot b/c of workflow as you said, I fear Lead in my espresso, so I need Stainless Steel in the brew chamber
Robot and a niche zero.
@@Edfireman1 or The Robot and a Solis grinder (Seattle Coffee Gear) using a pressurized filter. Remarkable value for $100 or less.
Niche when you can find or afford.
Manual grinder: Chestnut X will work well. Maybe the Kinu M47 over the Chestnut X because support is solid. The Rok grinder is another option. Easy and works beautifully for espresso. Still manual, yes, but easier given the contraption’s design.
After using my Cafelat Robot on a practically daily basis for over a year now, I can only be extremely happy with the choice I made.
Workflow is easy and pleasant and you can make excellent espresso with it.
Back-to-back espresso and cappuccino or affogato is no problem.
Using pressure profiling it's even fairly forgiving for a less than excellent grinder. The 1Zpresso JX I use now is brilliant, but even with the Hario Skerton I started with it was possible to make decent espresso.
It's a good idea to always push the full amount of water through. Lifting the arms after your shot can unseat the shower screen which can cause it to be damaged if you push the remaining water through afterwards. It's fairly easy to work out how many grams of water you need to pour in the basket to yield your desired shot size.
Turbo shots (lower dose-coarser grind-faster flow) work surprisingly well with the Robot. Feeling the much cooler piston after the shot - compared to a traditional shot - I suspect the smaller temperature drop during the shot helps in extraction.
For really light roasted coffee I usually put my basket upside down on top of my water kettle spout for a little extra heat.
This is great, doesn’t bother doing the whole unboxing thing, just gets straight to the point
Great walkthrough! I just got the flair pro 2 recently. I found preheating with the chamber on top of the kettle (I have a bonavita with 3 holes on top) and covering it with the lid to trap the steam helps preheat really quickly as the kettle boils. In terms of cleanup, using the lid to cover up and knock out the puck has been efficient without splattering.
Some good ideas! Never tried the steam method, but will give it a go 👍
I've had the Robot for close to a year and my wife and I love it. It's solid yet light, and easy to use and clean, with no pre-heating necessary. I hand-grind the beans every day in under a minute, and the grounds are fine enough to give me a 25-30 second pull. Yes, the arms should have a rounder shape for added comfort, but they're alright. As for the gauge, you only really need it if you're a beginner, as I was. After a few months, you can stop looking at it and instead go by feel and look alone.
I got a flair 58 and a robot. I returned the flair.
The robot is just easier - even with the flair self heating! I also found that it’s easier to dial in the pressure on a robot without the gauge.
As far as grinders, the 1zpresso j-max has been great for me. It’s a hand grinder, but for 18g it takes about 30s. Not bad.
Pair with a nano foamer and you’ve got an easy to clean and use setup that outperforms most. Robot without the gauge is $310. Grinder was $110. Nano foamer, non contact thermometer and oven cafe milk jug were $75.
This total setup is less than the cost of the flair 58, and priced equally good coffee that I found easier to clean and with an easier workflow
That's mt dream setup! I just got the J-Max and now I am going to buy the Robot.
I’m working with the J-Max and picopresso. About to order the Robot. The J-Max is so nice!
I had issues with separation using the Flair early on, but a more gradual release of pressure at the end of the shot has eliminated that issue 100%. Doesn’t need to slow, just progressive, and it sorts it nicely. I kinda like how the solution actually fits with the manual concept of pressure profiling in general! I don’t regard this as a flaw any more, since it ended up being so easy to address by technique instead.
Preheating is critical tho, for sure. Always with water off the boil, always at least twice, and always be ready to pull the shot immediately after the second heating cycle, to minimise any heat loss. Much more consistent and higher quality shots with two preheats rather than one, for sure.
Overall, a fantastic machine that I am very happy to own and use.
From what I'm told it's also less of an issue on the newest version of the basket, which has a slightly taller collar. I'll be more careful about releasing the pressure slowly from now on. Good to hear it worked for you!
The Coffee Chronicler I’ve got the Signature Pro (so basically the same as the Pro 2, with gauge but the old-style brew head)
Thanks for a detailed comparison. We are ready for more manual espresso making & testing in the office!
Thanks, guys. Manual espresso is the best!
Nice work! Good to see detailed criticisms of each I haven’t seen elsewhere. I think the Flair deserves more credit for being portable, it might outweigh the number of parts for those who travel.
I love my Flair Pro 2. Got it for a few days now and start to improve. It is a truly fascinating machine. It is true that the process of disassembling, preheating and re-assembling is tedious, but I also sort of like the ritual (all parts really feel premium so they're a joy to work with) - for my quick and easy shots I got my E61 pump machine.
No matter which machine - I think using a fully manual machine like these, is a huge benefit also for pump machine users.
And as much as I love my E61: the manual lever is just so satisfyingly tactile and having full control over pressure is incredibly cool.
The best comparative review I've ever watched online, KUDOS! Finally I don't feel like the manufacturers are influencing the detailed evaluations with no punches pulled. I have a Flair Signature Pro and can verify after two years of use the gaskets become worn out and the machining, in general, doesn't feel as good as when it was new, and even can split open between the basket and the chamber as you extract, causing an annoying need to use a thumb to keep the axis from the handle roller so no accidents occur. This is intrinsically a design flaw of the flair that has no perfect solution since the roller is canterlevered as it applies pressure. The Robot is new to me and I think it addresses all the issues that are problematic for me with the Flair, but I don't know how happy I'd be with cleaning the bottom of the piston. Still, a superior design and the additional surface area makes Robot a slam dunk in my mind. Flair also does drip weak dishwater coffee after pulling the shot and the basket is annoying to get the grounds inside without getting the countertop gritty.
Thanks David. I actually got the Pro 2 basket after the review, that has really improved the experience. It has a higher edge, so you don't get the splitting, and the machining and design is better overall.
@Christopher Bortle I’ve had my pro since it came out and never did it split on me. Only issue I had was with the piston sticking and stuttering but I pretty much fixed that by rubbing inside is the brew head throughly each time. I tried some semi automatic machines but it was too much a hassle to maintain and use special water. I felt I needed to purge the machine of old water if it haven’t been used in a few days. Also took too long to heat up. The actual pulling of shots is no comparison with its ease on an semi automatic especially consecutive shots and having a built in steam wand is a bonus
So far every comparison between Flair and Robot brings me to the same conclusion: I still can't decide which one.
Both are good, so you can also let price be a deciding factor. Since this review, I have had the chance to use the Flair Pro 2 basket, which is a big upgrade over the previous one. It actually fixes a few of my complaints regarding donut shaped preinfusion and water running out.
@@coffeechronicler Good to know! Thanks. I'm leaning towards the Flair. Does having a small diameter basket bring any concerns? It sounds like it might actually be more forgiving of grind size (which is good).
@@coffeechronicler Currently 15% off on all Flair models through cyber Monday. Ordered a Pro2. Can't wait for it to get here!
Same lol
@@spidersNsquirrels get a robot, you'll be really happy
Regarding the extra water that remains in the brew head of the Flair after pressing out the excess water, I would recommend removing the piston out of the brew head first as opposed to the removing the portafilter basket first. This way you can pour the remaining excess water out of the top and that makes removing the basket and knocking out the puck less messy.
Great video! Thanks for making it. When I was in the market for the Flair the Cafelat Robot was still very new and there weren’t many reviews out at the time, but I think the conclusion I came to then stills holds up now, which is that the majority of the decision comes down to work flow vs form factor. The Robot has a smoother workflow but some find it’s aesthetics and some design choices to not be to their taste. Although the Flair has a relatively more cumbersome workflow, it’s aesthetics and design choices are much more preferable to some that they are willing to take on its workflow.
Like so much in coffee, it seems to become a subjective value judgement rather than an objective ruling on which machine is superior, since both are competent at making quality espresso, but take different routes of getting to that end goal.
Since making the video, I have changed my workflow in many ways. I also got the Pro 2 basket which doesn't leak, so overall the Flair is much more enjoyable to use with these tweaks! I should probably make a little update video soon :)
Thank you for helping me choose brother. I got the robot and after tuning out the channeling I was getting I'm loving it!
btw my dad is from Denmark so I always feel at home when I find Danish youtubers ✌
Thanks again.
I have both. I find that both basket assemblies need pre heating to give the best expresso shot. For the Cafelat, I nuke some water in a glass bowl, and drop the basket assembly in to heat it up before brewing. When brewing water and basket are all warm, I load the coffee and brew. A paper filter over the puck but beneath the dispersion screen seems to help the brew. Gotta beware of channeling and puck lift with the Cafelat. Also, the accessory button caps for the levers are beneficial to comfortable pressing. I think they should come as part of the original assembly.
Hey Endo! Which one do you prefer? Robot or flair ?
Great review thank you, I have a flair pro 2 and have no issues at all with pre heating, it takes one preheat at 2mins to get the chamber to 98/99, I find the variables are more related to the force of your pull, a 6 bar pull is considerably more balanced and lighter than the same grind at a 9 or 10 bar, good luck with the robot!
I have started using the steam vents on my kettle for preheating, and have to admit that it makes things a whole lot easier! Yup, 6 bars seems to be the magic number for both these devices.
I love my robot, its so easy to pull a decent shot, brings out all the tastes listed on the beans package. I use it along with jmax s hand grinder. Perfect duo. Also frothing milk with nanofoamer. I do preinfusion and pull shots at 6 bar. This is something that my bezzera mitica cant even do yet. I don't think any other semi auto can come close out of the box at 400 euros. Naked porta filter, pressure profiling etc..
I bought the flair first and really did not like the workflow and the number of parts. I was too obsessed with preheating. I now have the robot and I definitely like it better but in all fairness I have not been so obsessed with preheating the flair and it's still producing very good shots. But if I had only one it would definitely be the robot
I'd love to see a comparison between the Robot and La Pavoni Europiccola!
Both good makers, I used to have Flair, but now have the Robot. Shot quality is a amazing when paired with a good grinder (I have bplus apollo). For those who like light roasts, you can really easily preheat the portafilter & piston if you seal up the double spout with food grade silicone. Attach it to the PF, pour in a little boiling water & attach to the robot whilst you prepare your puck. Makes a huge difference to temperature stability and allows for long pre-infusion/bloom that is often required for light roasts. I mainly drink full city, but still preheat in this way as its so easy.
Thanks, for the idea! I guess that's the best way to pre-heat the piston. Actually, you can also get a pretty decent seal on the basket with the Flair preheat cap :)
Hey! Do you see a big difference in term of shot quality between the 2
there’s a better way in disassembling the flair without getting hot water all over your hands. first you take off the pressure gauge first and discard the residual water from brew head, then proceed in getting the puck out. hope it helps.
Been doing it this way recently and it does work better. Surprisingly, it's actually easier to get out the wet puck with the flair
I have the original flair, I turn the cylinder and piston upside down and leave it on my draining board until the next day, then I simply remove the piston and blow into the cylinder to release the puck cleanly into my bin. I wouldn't go bottomless as I would lose this simplicity of cleaning
Flair owner here, and must admit the robot is cool looking. Maybe will buy a robot as well. Cheers!!
Excellent comparison. There are now add-ons from Cafelat that turn the uncomfortable handle ends into rounded pucks, which are more comfortable.
Thanks, Eric. Yes, I'm also very curious about those mittens :)
@@coffeechronicler Mine arrived this week, and by espresso #3, it was a winner. The little mittens are very good, and the self-leveling tamper is worth the money. If you don't get the coffee level, and press down hard all the way, you can break the puck of coffee at the end of the shot. To pre-heat everything, I boil water in a small pan with the portafilter and basket in the pan. Then I grind the coffee, put the portafilter+basket on a towel which helps it dry and stay hot, add the coffee, tamp, put on the screen, add the boiling water from the pan up to 7-8mm below the top, and 'go'. When I"m done, I use the remaining hot water to rinse off everything.
I usually preheat the flair cylinder with the steam from the kettle while I boil water. The cylinder gets hot(around 95C) pretty fast.
Tried it for the first time a few days ago. Really awesome hack!
Thanks for this video.
I have the Flair Signature Pro 2. The only reason I would consider the Robot over the FSP is the 58mm portafilters (which Flair are working on). Personally I don't find the brew or cleaning procedure an issue (ok sometimes I long for a very nice semiautomatic especially when paired with the OE Pharos hand grinder, but that is only after 2 weeks at home making 4 coffee's a day, my usual 1 in the morning (different coffee at work) and 4 on the weekend are fine). I set everything up ready to go before bed for my morning coffee. I preheat using the base of a moka pot to steam (although the new kettle funnel hack looks great (not compatible with my kettle). I find cleaning easy, I do not press out excess liquid, I just take out the plunger and tip it out. Press a little on the screen, bang out the puck and a little rinse.
I have not had any issues with the silicone gaskets and not notice any leaking water
I use a Jam funnel on top of the small plastic funnel to assist getting grinds from the large OE Pharos catch cup into the FSP portafilter without spilling over the counter
I’ve been waiting for this comparison, thanks!
Really want a Robot… but it would take a year or more to save for it. Purchased the NEO on sale for $104 shipped. Added a bottomless Portafilter to have on hand when my skills improve. As is, using the pressurized port filter, it already beats Starbucks. I’m setting those funds aside for a competent hand grinder and my eventual robot. 😅
Just picked up the flair and I really love it! Thanks for the advice about double preheating. It helped a lot
Excellent factual video. No annoying rubbish, distracting music etc
i have: cafelat robot (i don't like the temperature managment in flair and it's many parts complexity , where the robot is more elegant solution) , OE Lido-E manual grinder(great for espresso/turkish grind , the cheap hario plus grinder is great for drip coffee not espresso grind) , xiaomi induction cooker for boiling water (fastest/optimal way to boil, better then any kettle even better than chemex chettle , i use only bottled water like san benedetto / evian / voss...) , wpm ms130d manual milk steamer for frothing milk , vacutech coffee vacuum jars (i have 3-4 for flexibility when i want single origin or when i want to blend), acaia lunar coffee scale/timer , kalita wave style for drip coffee , recommend this setup very much , no need for expensive coffee machine like ranchilo silva v6 with pid , because machine is limited and pre-programmed , with the robot and manual grinder , you are the machine with your own espresso style, and you feel and connect with the coffee more deeply and pull a shot with pressure profile that is optimized especially for these beans at there specific roast level , btw thermapen mk4 is great instant milk/espresso thermometer
btw , the robot basket is not exactly 58mm , but 57.5-57.75mm probably , meaning you can't buy regular tamper from amazon , nor OCD v3 distributor for this , but there is a new cool tamper at cafelate store , which is more comfortable for it , and there are handles to the robot hands , for more comfort , also , for distribution i use a very small whisk then with the robot tamper i slowly spin it to and lower it's height bit by bit , and then i make sure tamper x/y is centered then i tamp at least 7kg pressure, and then twist the tamper again for evenness , then i slowly put the filter screen , from there on i don't touch/move the basket a bit at any angle till i have my boiled water , when i put water in it , i put it very slowly and even so the tamping won't get lost, then in a very steady move not causing any waves/weird angles or knocks , i lock it inside the robot , it actually very cool to see in cafelat instagram , they have transparent basket video, to see how the robot work internally , so you know how to better adjust your technique , and how not to bend the filter screen , btw in addition to the robot pressure gauge it's a good idea to put a kitchen scale beneath it too, to correlate bars and kg , the robot works best with 16-18g dark roast , for light roast it's better to pre-heat a little, the robot worth every penny , very elegant and durable design and materials(just get backup filter screens when needed), you need to make sure you stop pressure before you get to the end , count the seconds in your mind and use espresso cups , not cappuccino to remember the height of a good profile to stop at , or better than this , get acaia lunar beneath the cup (not acacia pyxis , has less modes , less smart , need more calibrations , the lunar has a mode for extra accuracy it's the best there is right now) , btw it's very important to totally clean the basket/filter screen with water and soap, also wipe the robot piston below, on every shot you pull , so you start clean every time, if you pull back 2 back, couple of shots , you can get away with just cleaning the basket/filter screen with water and quick wipe to dry it , but don't let it stay hours without cleaning, and then make a shot with it , also always use fresh coffee grounds, make sure it's not from retention inside the grinder so it's totally fresh grind
@@igalk474 Nice routine, sounds like you got it down to a science :) Will check out the Xiaomi induction kettle, they make some good products.
@Igal Abachi Thank you for sharing your routine. Can you tell me how much time to boil water with the xiaomi induction ? I'm interested in bonavista kettle but 1000w seems low.
@@sebastiencarre2416 1000w , just says that it will take longer to boil , it will still boil if you give it time , if chettle by chemex was higher watt , i would have used it , but xiaomi is twice as fast to boil , i think that i have boiling water from cold(2-5 degrees) to 100 degrees , in less than 90sec-2 minutes , on microwave 3:30 , on electric boiler 6 minutes , so 1 hack , is to fill the pot with only the water you need , don't fill it till the end , another hack is to close the pot till it's about to boil, so heat won't run out
so after i have boiling water . i wait 5 seconds , (it's approximately decreases in 1 degree every 5 sec ) , then i pour it gently on the screen filter , similar motion like v60 , when the water hit the screen, it goes down in 4 degrees more , so coffee itself , get 88-95 degrees water probably
@@sebastiencarre2416 i think the best combination is to use , xiaomi induction cooker , with fellow stagg kettle (analog 1L)
Thanks for the honest comparison. I am looking at getting my very first espresso machine, and I was going to be going with a Flair until I saw more about the robot and not needing the preheating so much. Their design makes a lot more sense to me. I also don't mind the more retro styling.
I see you have a Lido 3 on your shelf there. How do you like it? I've had mine for about seven years now and it has become a great morning companion. She certainly stands out compared to all of the newer grinders, but she was the best option available back when I got her.
Do you think the Lido 3 would work well for espresso on the Robot? I'm not afraid of a little work, and due to my own ineptitude I was grinding espresso fine for my aeropress for a few years before I actually started deeply researching the best brew methods. If you think 18g is hard, try doing a whole Lido hopper of regular bulk-sized coffee, lol. I think I increased my caffeine tolerance doing 30g brews with espresso-fine coffee over the years.
Doug has a video going through the workflow with his new Lido OG and the Robot, so I would think that the Lido grinders are sufficient for the thinner puck sizes (the burs are the same). I am considering upgrading to the OG because of its nicer adjustment system that makes it easy to swap between espresso and brew coffee grind sizes without losing your place like you do on the Lido 3. The 3 does look like it was meant to be paired with an aeropress, though.
The new Flair 58 is tempting, but something about having a power wire on a lever machine doesn't sit right with me.
I was very impressed with your video thank you. I have subscribed and look forward to more of this type of thing in the future.
I think I saw your Flair review on a website. I didn't know you had a channel. Nice!
I ended up with a Flair Pro 2. I thought its thermal management was better for Flair because it's cylinder could be separately heated whereas Robot's piston cannot be removed.
I preheat while I boil brewing water by using a steamer basket in a pot which gets the cylinder to 212F which is a notch above 205F.
Yeah, that's a good point! Recently, I have been preheating by using the steam vents on the kettle by and placing the brew head on top, and that actually works very well.
I personally like the flair though it has a smaller basket making regular tools not usable. But it comes with its own tamp and everything and CREMA has a 49mm distributor and tamp that fits perfectly. I use the flair multiple times a day and I do think if you plan out everything you can make a pretty good work flow in my opinion. Also the design to me is better, it looks more like a coffee maker than the robot
I also got the Cafelat Robot as per your video (I replaced Flair 58X for it). Thanks!
I migrated from semi automatic Espresso machine to manual.
1. Less maintenance - no pumps, boilers and other stuff that can break
2. Better tasting coffe!
Got the flair pro 2 first, the preheating is too finicky (on top of kettle), sold it and got the robot instead.
I just had Flair Pro2 for 2 weeks but I am going to return it for a Robot. The amount of time for preparation and clean up is ridiculous (i.e. preheating 2-3 times?!, touching the piping hot brew chamber twice to screw/unscrew, harder to get a puck and the screen out...). ESPRESSO is supposed to be fast and I think I can get 5 mins at work to make coffee but Flair is like a 10+ min commitment for one shot and nearly impossible to do back to back in a reasonable amount of time for everyone to enjoy.
Portability-wise, if travelling by a car, why does it even matter given they take up almost the same amount of space? And is sacrificing up to a week's worth of T-shirt space for this when packing for a carry-on worth it? Better to stick with local coffee shops or Aeropress at that point. (also, Flair is still quite heavy when on foot)
Nice comparisons, you made me order the robot
Me too. I almost pulled the trigger on a flair a few times. I just can’t imagine that work flow early in the morning before your coffee. It’s already manual espresso. You need a convoluted work flow to make things more difficult
I love my Robot. The design of the Robot just walks all over the Flair and makes it look like a toy in comparison.
I have the Flair base model, the Signature, the one black and red, and w/o the pressure reader. It takes time and attention to operate and to clean, but the coffee is so delicious, smooth, and sweet. I use it several times a day! I have not tried the Cafelat Robot, mostly because it is more expensive and requires more space.
I really enjoy brewing with the basic Flair actually - in some ways I prefer it over the more advanced model!
@@coffeechronicler I use the flair neo, except i do not get huge amount of crema, and also sometimes its hard to push as it get stuck.. and i have to redo the entire process again
@@rakeshjonnalagadda1766 sounds like your grinder is the problem
Flair also may be more portable with the cute little case some models come with. So might be better if you plan on traveling with it more.
In terms of shot quality what makes richer and more obvious notes when using speciality coffee
That's typically a mix of grinder performance and even extraction
Thank you, very helpful. That's the decision I'm trying to make right now.
Some questions, if I may:
1. Would a Comandante produce good enough grinds for great experience with the Robot? Does it grind really slow? Would a Kino be better for ground quality? How horrible would my current Hario Mini Slim Plus be? Have you heard the Rok handgrinder only has two or three available adjustements for espresso?
2. Do the Robots all come with pressure gauge, or is that an expensive add on? I looked, and the gauge is not listed as included in the box.
3. The electric Flair 58 seems to not quite be perfected yet. (James Hoffmann calls it frustratingly close to excellent.) But it's really expensive!
Nice review! very helpful.
Do you think a standard JX grinder that I have is good enough for a non-pressurized basket in the Flair?
Very nice review, coz till now i haven't really decided which one i will take for manual espresso in my counter.. considering in my country, both have similarly price around 375 bucks for PRO 2 but Robot standard version without pressure gauge..
I went with robot without gauge. Really like it and agree with most of the points in the video.
Yo just read your cafflano kompresso review that convinced me to buy it over flair... Why not video about it? Also which device you have at home. Would be good if you make more videos on Different devices. You have much better analysis than james hoffman or what is his name . You are much more diligent and thorough
Thanks, that's almost too kind :) The plan is to release a video about the Cafflano within the next months. It takes a lot of time to record and edit, so at the moment I actually have a long line of content just waiting to be produced.
@@coffeechronicler ok that seems you are perfectionist and that will make lot of effort. You can try to do it on the go with minimum edit and just produce it quick. you can get views in the process before releasing more polished videos
Really like your style of reviewing. Would you consider reviewing the 9barista please? Very much appreciate your thoughts on it and potentially comparison against the Robot and Flair.
I recommend ROBOT the reason why which machine is more convenient for total process of making coffee. ROBOT WIN!!!
I've had a Flair Classic, upgraded with the pressure gauge and paired with a Lido-E manual grinder. I'm very happy with my setup.
All the fuzz I read about preheating, I guess it has to do with people having just the black coffee. I drink my shots with milk, in like capuccino/flat white cups. So I just put the chamber in the cup, and fill it with boiling water for a few secs. This way I preheat both the brew chamber and the cup I'm going to have my drink in.
Anyway, I"ve been checking the Robot lately (I wonder how it works with my Lido grinder), but also waiting for the upcoming 58mm Flair...
Curious what kettle you use in this video ? Great comparison and content !
Thanks for the HQ review. Cheers!
You say that a premium manual grinder will not give you the quality that the robot is capable of, but then I have read many times how a grinder like the Kinu M47 rivals some of the better espresso grinders in the market. Would you say the M47 is not a good match for the Robot? Thanks for the comparison. It helped me in choosing the Robot over the Flair.
I don't have personal experience with M47 so it's a bit hard to say. The main issue is that the Robot requires a really fine grind, so some hand grinders don't have much burr traction in that area, which means you need more rotations per gram. So it can take quite some time to grind.
@@coffeechronicler Do you think the Lido E can grind fine enough at a reasonable time? Have you any experience with it or just the Lido 3?
@@ilantaub4039 Sorry, only Lido 3...
I have the robot, niche zero and the kinu m47 classic. I use the niche for the robot and my kinu for pour overs. (Just for time) The burrs that come in the kinu are great for espresso. in fact I bought a separate set of burrs that are specifically designed for pour overs and courser grinds, because the burrs that come in the kinu has too many fines when ground coffee courser than espresso.
@@coffeechronicler having both at home, my experience is that although the Kinu M47 is not as incredibly good tasting as the Comandante, filter and espresso, the M47 however is still excellent and much quicker to grind, especially easier to grind fine espresso. With a really light roast on some very resistant beans, grinding espresso on Comandante and most manual grinders is not ideal. I got used to it but still. On Comandante it breaks the lid quicker too on the long term. On the M47 there is a thumb stop for the holding hand, and for the hand grinding the action is just so nice. Easiest action and quickest manual portable grinder on the market, the only one I would consider viable for daily espresso.
Really well done! I have both espresso makers and pretty much agree with your assessment. However, I think you also lose quite a bit of heat on the robot from the piston which Preheat as well.
Thanks for the fair and excellent reviews.
Thanks, that's good to hear! Yes, it would be interesting to factor the piston in somehow. It probably sucks out some energy, but I wonder how much since the shots are still quite good without pre-heating.
What roast level are you using to pull shots with primarily?
Also, have you tried pulling a shot with the lido grinder on the robot? I have the lido e and felt it worked well with the flair but feel it may be reaching its limit with the robot.would be really curious what you thought since it looks like you have various grinders in your collection.
I was thinking of doing a similar video comparison since I have both machines but you beat me to it. And you did a great job. Thanks so much.
Flair all day Baby... Paired with my Kinu M47 Classic
Nice combo 👌
What is your set using Kinu M47
Also do you have to preheat twice?
@@hansyeung It's recommended to preheat twice. However, since doing the video I learned that the best way to preheat is by putting the brew head on top of the steam vent of your kettle while heating the water. That usually does the job very well.
@@coffeechronicler how long to do it?
great channel! have my flair pro 2 on the way. Mostly chose it over the Robot for portability, lower price, and active online community. Have you tried the 9barista yet?
Congrats with the Flair! Haven't tried the 9barista yet, but would like to :)
great recipe/profile for robot:
i input 18g fresh dark roast beans ,
ground fine enough for espresso(till the robot hands don't have too much
resistance or bending,which is great feedback , and then i play with grind setting around there, to loosen it a bit) ,
i use [1:2.2] ratio , means i expect 40g espresso out of 18g beans,
so
i tamp , and add water , for dark roast(from full city to italian
roast) it doesn't need any temperature management , only boiling temp
water,
then i do pre-infusion of 2 bar pressure , till i see some
drops,that are not only from the outside ring of the cake,but from the
middle too,
probably couple of seconds , not too long ,
then i do 70% of the extraction at 7-9 bars gradual pressure, usually 8,
than in the last 10g , i lower to 6-4 bars gradual pressure,
so 5% 2 bar , then 70% 8 bars , then 25% at 4 bars...
it produces a lot less channeling then automatic machine that do straight 9 bars from start to end,
turns out pretty good , must use scale & timer for this , like acaia lunar or similar
hey, i. was wondering: i see a kompresso in the back....what do you think of this in comparison to the flair or the robot?
It's a device but a bit more of a toy. I will prbably do a comparison soon!
Thanks man, nice review. I have a flair pro and a faemina baby, which is the ancestor of the cafelat robot. I use faemina baby daily for espresso and for milk drinks, and I am very happy with it. As you said it is just simpler to use. But one thing I noticed is that flair pro just gives you more crema than the faemina baby. And it is easier to get a very good espresso with flair pro, cause it is more forgiving than the faemina baby. What do you think about those two things ? Is it the same for you or not ?
Besides, which hand grinder do you recommend to a pair with flair pro for a voyage ?
Hi Murat, some interesting observations! My take on it, is that it's easier to make consistent espresso with the Robot because of the simple workflow. Once dose and grind size is locked in, it's very straightforward.
But on the other hand the Flair is more forgiving when it comes to grinders. And because the grind is coarser, you actually get more crema. I think there is a correlation between coarser grinds, lower 5-6 bar pressure and crema.
The Flair Pro will work well many hand grinders, I have used it a lot with Jx Pro.
PS: That Faemina is so classy!
@@coffeechronicler Thanks, that explains a lot. Hope to get a "not so expensive" hand grinder not for the next vacation, to avoid the days without good espresso. Will check out Jx Pro. Have you had any experience with Timemore Slim ? Cheers.
@@murataht I haven't tried Slim but I believe that the burr set is the same as C2, so that means not really suitable for espresso, unfortunately.
@@coffeechronicler Thanks. I think I will save up a bit for something like kinu or comandante. I have checked up Jx Pro and other products, unfortunately there is no local distributor in France, and I am afraid the tax will make the final price as expensive as a comandante if I buy from their website. cheers.
Nice comparison, thanks!
how do you compare cafflano with these? I have it, but it seems the pressure is not what they claim. no matter how fine I grind. I get ok espresso, but nowhere near the foamy crema I had with machine. I am ok with it, and will never go back to machine, but perhaps cafelat one day, because the crema seems much richer than from cafflano
Thanks for the great review. I have a Commandante Grinder at home to prepare my V60 and Aeropress. Looking to get into espresso now. Would you consider that a good enough grinder for the robot? Considering your last remarks, I am more tempted to go with the Flair now.
I think you'd need the red clix add-on for both applications. Yes, I'd be bit sceptical about its use with the Robot
@@coffeechronicler what about the 1zpresso KX pro paired with the robot?
so recommend something to basically tell how they work, for the newbies.
Wonderful video! Cheers mate ☕️
Great video, thank you.
There should be a pressurized basket for Robot, which reduces the requirements from the grinder
Yes, there's an option for that on Cafelat's website. But IMO it kinda takes away from the overall appeal of the device.
That would make Robot less appealing than Flair... by a big margin
I’m wondering which of these you think is better for splitting shots? My partner and I sip on espresso all day but prefer to split a double shot (currently on bambino regular). The robot spouts look a little more sturdy, although Hoffman seems to think they need preheating?
The Robot comes with the spout add-on in the box, but I have never used it. Not sure if you have to buy it separately for the Flair Pro or if it's included. With the Flair 58 it should be easy to find a spouted portafilter.
He never mentioned the flair price. It's like a robot at 450 vs a flair at 160. Plus if using a manuel grinder with some course ground, flair isn't bad.
The Flair Pro is $309-329. The price you mention is the most basic Flair model with the smaller basket and no pressure gauge.
Can you be sure that the silicone gasket on the robot is food grade, because it's made in China?
Awesome review. Cheers mate.
How did you get the robot arms to stay up without holding them prior to putting the basket on and after. Always see people have to hold them.
Nice video and ordered a white robot last week with the hands, upgraded tamper and extra filter screen.
I'm not sure if the design has been changed slightly. I think it might have. I have never had to do anything special to keep the arms up. Congrats with the new Robot!
13:56, does that mean the Robot wouldn't be such a good pairing for the Comandante C40 (even with the red clix)?
I will test it soon :)
Looking forward to your test results!
I make espresso every day with a c40 with red clix. It works well.
@@nicholasscott4138 I just bought the red clix too! Around 11 clicks is the sweet spot for a bag of Squaremile Sweetshop in brewing with right now...
@@nicholasscott4138 what's your setting usually?
Thank you
Suggestions for a good grinder to pair with the robot?
Eureka Mignon Specialita is probably the best option at the moment
@@coffeechronicler i heard that its good only when the hopper is full & not half full, and before dosing on the morning you need to throw away any coffee retention from yesterday compared to single dose grinder,
how does it compares to niche zero grinder ?
is Baratza Sette 270Wi worth mentioning , or eureka is in a different league?
what are your thoughts about other flat burr grinders:
Ceado e37j , OPTION-O LAGOM P64...
how those will be compared to niche zero & eureka?
will grinding by hand brings better results then electric machine?
@@igalk474 The Mignon Specialita is decent for single dosing but it's not really designed for it the same way the Niche is. Other than that it's flat burrs vs conical, so again two different things. IMO both are amazing grinders but very different, so it depends on your need.
I like hand grinders but for espresso, the convenience of an electric one is just a huge benefit.
@@coffeechronicler what about the Kinu m47?
How does the Rok compare?
Anyone know why the Robot is so much cheaper on the Cafelat website? The link for this video says $449, but the cafelat website lists it as $300. Am I missing something?
The Robots come in two versions. The one with the pressure gauge is $370 and the one without is cheaper. I guess the price difference from the American distributor is due to logistics and import tax. I think in the end it works out to be around the same price if you order from Cafelat in Hong Kong.
Robot all day everyday. Love mine with my NZ grinder
how about the ROK?
Maybe a future video :)
They have a lot of QC issues that have supposedly been made better in the newer generation, but they don't have a reputation for quality the way that flair and cafelat do. Also no pressure gauge.
Their grinder on the other hand is supposed to be one of the best.
I have to agree with you on this.
manual grinder no good for robot?
That is something I've been waiting for! Thanks a lot! What do you think about pairing Robot with 1zpresso JX Pro? Does the grinder has enough range for tweaking your grind for Robot?
You're welcome. I have been using it with Jx Pro plenty of times. It's definitely do-able but you'll be operating around 1 rotation where the burrs don't have that much 'catch' -- meaning that it will take a longer to grind compared to when you're using the same grinder for the Flair (which starts around 1 rotation, mark 3") Dialing in will be slightly frustrating so that's why I see the 'handgrinder+flair" combo as more suitable.
@@coffeechronicler really appreciate your response. Can you recommend a handgrinder best suited for Robot? That is because I am already pretty much settled on Robot
Dilmurod Avalbaev sorry to interject. How about the Kinu M47 Classic, also placed in the same league as the 1Zpresso? Wouldn’t it give a great quality espresso grind?
My workaround has been, adjust the dose once you get to the range of grinder setting that you want. (same ratio)
@@coffeechronicler completely agree, i was using kompresso at 9 clicks c40, now i have to go to 6 clicks with robot! Good taste but quite a long grind in the morning. Thankfully robot can go to 13-14g no problem so i grind less coffee, and taste better with the same amount of milk (compared to kompresso)
hey what about uniterra nomad? i think this beats the others for convenience and elegance. what do you say?
Never tried it, but looks interesting for sure. It does seem like it never really got much traction though.
@@coffeechronicler yes a very different sort of traction 🤣 can see the nomad world competitions here facebook.com/nomadplus/videos
Very useful! Instant sub 😎
Thanks!
What nice semi-automatic machines were you referring to as a comparison to the Robot?
Probably something like Gaggia Classic Pro
I'm considering a Flair Pro + a 1zpresso JX pro. Would you have any recommendations for standalone milk steamers?
For steaming milk, just use a french press. Any cheap one from goodwill will do the job, or they make dedicated "milk frothers" Just heat the milk in the stove or microwave and give it a few pumps with the press to make foam. There is a stovetop steamer you can buy but they are scary. It's high pressure and there is no gauge or anything you just put it on the stove until it's about to blow up and then pray it doesn't. And it's $100.
However, if you regularly make coffee with milk, I would say skip the manual machine altogether and get a breville barista express or something similar. You just aren't going to get a decent steamed milk without a real milk steamer. And the breville comes with a usable grinder, the brewer, and a great milk steamer for 600. You're going to be spending 300 for the flair pro, 150 for the grinder, 100 for the steamer and you need a good kettle. That's about the same price, plus you have to deal with manually grinding and pre-heating.
That's the problem when you start adding milk into the equation, you end up with a bunch of equipment that isn't saving work or money, might as well just buy a machine that makes that kind of coffee to begin with.
There's a very interesting crowdfunding product on the way named NanoFoamer. Otherwise Bellman and the RED steamer (from Indonesia) seems to be the most popular options among Flair users.
Seems like robot is better at every angle and the only thing detracting from it is the price.
I always wondered: how much strength do you need to get the needed pressure? it looks like you need to work pretty hard (like you said, it's good that you can lean onto the flair). so for someone like me with preeeetty weak arm strength... do I need to do my workouts before I get my coffee?
It takes some effort, but with a bit of practice you can use body weight instead of raw strength :)
Kayane Sing Apik....Cafelat....Tinimbang Flair.... Iyo tho Boss....
Hej, jeg kan tilfældigvis høre at du er dansker, og jeg har ledt efter Cafelat Robot i Danmark, men uden held. Så jeg vil gerne høre hvor du har købt din henne? :)
Godt hørt :) Den er købt i deres officielle web-butik.
@@coffeechronicler jeg har overvejet den meget i stedet for noget som en gaggia classic, den bliver bare noget dyrere når man køber den udenfor EU desværre.
Hownice !
Flair > Robot.
The cons stated in the video is easily fixed with proper technique.
1) you dont want to preheat you water cylinder? Just steam it with kettle when you boil your water.
2) Water leaking after done pulling your shot? Stop at what you doing. Dont press the handle to remove excess water. Take the cylinder, pour the water out, remove the puck and throw it to sink. 100% no water leakage and easy cleaning.
The only thing that Robot do better is 58mm portafilter basket. With good grind size, you gonna pull better shot. But! Really strong but! You must have good espresso grinder ready (ie. Niche Zero). Any premium hand grinder wont do it
I have been doing 1 and 2 recently and that really helps the work flow. But I think that the Robot has a few other pros, besides the basket size. To me it seems to be more consistent and less fussy when it comes do dose size as well
If Cafelat Robot is machine used by hands, why, why it would not be possible to make a great tasting espresso totally by hands, also as to grinder? I know, I know, Niche Zero is brilliant coffee grinder but why electric with non-electric...
"any premiun grinder wont do it". LoL, BS
Preheating flair and workflow is massive. I don't get how you content creators get good result from flair without preheating. You just boil water and go on but for anyone who tends to buy flair please note that it will take too much workflow to preheat your flair and it dramatically loses temparature in seconds. Its has also 46mm basket. I am kind a regret for buying flair and I wish someone warned me before I buy it however almost all content creators just boil water and brew with flair and make it seem how easy to use instead.....
Preheating is one of the first things I talk about in this comparison. And if you check out the review on my website, I go into it even deeper. Preheating is definitely essential to get good shots with the Flair.
Domo arigato cafelat roboto
I have to agree they are both overpriced crap. Now if they sold them for say $100 to $150 they would be worth it but $549 canadian PLUS tax, you are looking at almost $650 for a manual? Thats a lot for something that you could have a semi-automatic do
It's a bit unfair to compare mass market products vs new start ups in a small niche. I don't think Cafelat or Flair have bigger profit margins than Gaggia or Breville - it's probably the other way around. As an early adopter, you do end up paying extra, but for some people it still makes sense. The price will probably come down in a few years, when more brands enter the manual espresso game, but it's a long time to wait to save a few hundred bucks :)
3:46 no, you're not Putin
Get an electric
Nice comparisons, you made me order the robot
Great video! Thank you.