Today's video looks at the possibility of a mistrial in the Lucy Letby e case. We look at a squashed conviction from Holland which also mirrors Lucy Letbys case, and how that lady was exonerated.
The coverage of this is misleading beyond belief. Baby G for instance - I was listening to a MSM programme about it and in the case of this child the presenter said: "Baby G was under the supervision of Lucy L" No! baby G wasn't under her supervision baby G was under the supervision of a different nurse who was working that night, in a different room to Lucy L. MISLEADING CLAIM! And did you know hours before baby G died 2 Doctors entered the room, closed the curtain and performed a procedure behind said curtain for a period of time on baby G? (Procedure here is to always open the curtains so babies can be seen at all times)!!!!!!!!! They then walked away from the cot leaving the curtains pulled closed. They then told the nurse who was assigned to baby G (not Lucy) that they had left the curtains closed and could she open them. which she did.... IT WAS MINS. AFTER ALL THIS that Lucy went into that room, where the baby milk was stored incidentally - everybody was in and out of here...... When she saw the baby G machine was unplugged? so within mins of the assigned nurse leaving she brought her back in. Both Doctors and that nurse blamed Lucy because she was in that room, They said they hadn't done anything? so it must be her....... just like that? Believed? Why? Why haven't these 3 been investigated and why were they never questioned as suspects? SHE WAS NOT THE ONLY NURSE TO TEND TO THIS CHILD THAT WASNT EVEN UNDER HER SUPERVISION. ITS A JOKE. Its also said that the Doctor who was a married man and who was having relations with Lucy Letby had anonymity in court? WHY? Also he was on duty everytime lucy supposedly killed a baby? Why wasn't he on the LIST? WHY WHY WHY ?
The media is twisting and bending the information, more so, since the conviction. It's difficult to get reliable information, who and what can you believe. I was expecting the powers that be, to release the evidence ie; full police interview. I'm not convinced about the verdict.
6 of the 7 babies Lucy was supposed to have murdered had autopsies and were found to have died from natural causes. Why then was a retired paediatrician allowed to overrule the pathologists by just looking at a few radiographs? Dr Dewi Evans was not a pathologist or forensic scientist and had no experience of investigating mass murder in a hospital setting. And Evans had already been discredited by a senior judge in a previous case for writing a report that was worthless. You'd think, at the very least, the bodies would need to be re-examined before accusing anyone of mass murder let alone charging them with mass murder. This case stinks more than the sewage that routinely leaked into the neonatal unit.
HUGE! How the hell has she been convicted twice? There seems to be reasonable doubt from multiple different angles?! The main stream media has been an utter disgrace in this case. They have gone so hard against her, dramatising everything. I am sure they want to turn this case into a movie they can make money off
All the women in my family are nurses ( wife, mum, sister and an Aunty ). They all say the same thing. She the scapegoat covering up for the bad management. I’ve heard all of them say at different times that the NHS is mismanaged very bad. They like covering things up too. My Mum worked with someone that got transferred from Stoke Mandeville hospital to Milton Keynes hospital. The reason she got transferred was because she was making sure the patients were ok. She walked into one room to check up on a woman that was paralysed from the neck down. A certain celebrity that wore tracksuits with long blonde hair was on top of her. So she reported what she had seen to the management, how told her they would handle it and for her to be quiet. Well nothing happened as he came back the next week so she kicked off this time. So they transferred her to MK hospital.
This is one of the bizarre aspects of our legal system. Courts routinely disregard or downplay serious professional work relevant to the case in favour of Court-ordered ad hoc superficial reports done after the fact by often less qualified people who know far less about the particular case. Pathologists' reports by pathologists who examined the bodies at the time? Pah! What we need is the less informed opinion of one of our panel of rent-a-quote "experts". Why on Earth do they do this?
I don't care if she is guilty or not I do care how they got a conviction ,no witness ,no confession imbedded or otherwise ,no motive only an imagined one by the prosecution ,and presented as evidence to emotionally sway the jury ,as if they needed it the media had already found her guilty . As for expert witnesses they are men of straw bought and paid for by the state. Now we all know how often they are wrong nearly always . cluster deaths are quite common in medicine a lot go unexplained . If the police want to convict you they will they will select ,what they know they can put forward to make you look guilty. Then the prosecution puts forward theories as evidence . She was fitted up, once they had spent money on the investigation police were pressured into "getting a result" as they say. I don't know how the prosecution and police sleep at nights
I agree with you entirely. It was a stitch up. There is no evidence that anyone was murdered. Nick Tucker is another case where somehow a jury found him guilty of murder when there was a complete lack of any evidence to suggest it. These things probably happen more than we think.
You have brought out some very important issues here.......all pointing to Lucy not being guilty as charged and, therefore, she must be given the opportunity to have formidable, accurate Defence in addition to not being beaten down when speaking for herself....and, not concentrating on her private life and vilifying her.
I don’t know if she is innocent however in my opinion there is absolutely not enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to to convict her. I don’t know how a jury convicted her
@@SKisatourist2010 there was no credible evidence. It's a clear case of a gross miscarriage of justice to anyone who has bothered to look at the evidence presented and who has the intellectual capacity to understand it.
@@janlittle2148 the jury got it completely wrong. Quite obviously. Hardly the first time that's happened. And I highly doubt that they understood most of the medical evidence.
It shows he or she has a background in mental health - it is quite appropriate to mention that, as far as interest in the case goes. I’m an artist, btw!
Thank for this. Thought i was going crazy and was the only british person who felt this wauy. Not saying she didnt do it but theres not enough evidence in my opinion to say she did. This is bad. She doesnt fit the profile at all, not one bit + theres only circumstantial evidence, none of it fits. People need to look at logic and not their feelings here. Ive never felt this strongly over a case. Until she confesses herself or theres hard evidence i dont think ill believe it
It seems to me that she was guilty in most people's minds before she set foot in court. Most people's responses are highly emotional to anything concerning babies. I don't know if she's guilty or not. What I do know is that lots of lawyers, scientists and statisticians are all expressing deep concerns re: the evidence presented and they should be taken seriously.
They are all crazy people, those who are "expressing deep concerns", don't pay any attention to them. They even think all those witches we burned, weren't really witches. Bloody idiots.
@@rolandhawken6628 totally tried by media. Everytime something pops up saying how evil she is I can't help but cringe. At first I fell for the media parade but piece by piece I'm like wtf actually is happening here. If this is wrong, which I'm thinking it is, this is disgusting.
@@ZoeW335Agreed there is not a lot of difference between now and the days of the Witchfinder General , when some thing goes wrong there has to be some one to blame . The media should know nothing until the trial is over ,the jury system should be scrapped ,and replaced by people who only deal in facts not theories , if facts and hard evidence is not forthcoming the trial is thrown out . I don't think the ward was even shut down as a crime scene ,she was fitted up by the police they probably overspent on investigating her and turned up SFA so then they got creative ,and poured in a hundred weight of paper and multiple charges to make an illusion of guilt . They had pressure from above and the good old press pushing for blood .
I disagree. Most people just couldn't believe that someone so young and angelic-looking could kill babies. It's also the reason that videos like this one even exist!
She is innocent imo but the miscarriage of justice is there was not even close to enough evidence to prove her guilt. Shame on the jury making emotional decisions
@@SendMeToTheVoidthank you for your question. Without going into an essay, there's just no evidence that she murdered any of the babies. The unit was incredibly understaffed and they were breaking their own policies regarding the ratio of nurses to babies. The CQC report for the year 2015-16 was just shocking. The unit was accepting extremely poorly babies that they were not equipped or specialised to take (this stopped after Lucy was removed from the unit. Post mortems were not done on the babies at the time of their death because the doctors believed they had died of natural causes. These same doctors and consultants only accused Lucy of murder after she had taken out a grievance against the hospital and after questions were being asked about the number of deaths. Having worked as a nurse for over 20 years I've seen cover ups and witnessed corruption at the most senior level. I've only listed a few reasons why I do not believe that she is guilty. I promise you there are many more. Take a look at the website Science on Trial and you'll see so many extremely specialist health care professionals (much more so than me) give multiple reasons as to why this conviction appears to be a gross miscarriage of justice.
The evidence that she is guilty is woefully lacking in my opinion. I can't see how it can be "beyond reasonable doubt". It's a high bar and it hasn't been met in this case, to my mind.
I feel she has been scapegoated. Just can’t see any actual proof of guilt. It all seems circumstantial. Feel she may be on the spectrum. High functioning but with poor communication and poor boundaries. Trouble processing negative thoughts. Naive. She also showed evidence of poor self esteem. Something not sitting right in my mind.
I totally agree with the spectrum thing. I'm on the spectrum and I can totally see the way she's responding is how somebody with autism would, not somebody whose guilty. Assertive yet totally socially unaware, this is all I'm seeing Sorry I'd like to add a little before somebody jumps on me and says, yeah but she's out all the time and has friends. She's a woman, women respond to things very differently to men, most of the research before 2000s was solely based on men. Women are naturally much more social beings. You can definitely appear social but still be socially unaware and have social anxieties. Trust me I have lived through it, it's exhausting and part of the masking we do to fit in. At letbys age she still has a lot of energy, I gave up with masking 10 years ago
@@sarahchapman7863 I'm not a nurse but I do know a hell of a lot about autism and neuro diversity. She looks proper autistic to me and everything people are saying about the way she responds is stuff I've heard so many times. 'youre lying you can't even look at me' was one of mine, well no I don't really look at anyvody lol. People have this idea of how everyone should be and it sucks. I want facts to say she's guilty, not this nonsense. I'm really not sure on her guilt here people keep sh*****g on me for it but it's a feeling I just can't shake and the more I deep dive the more my fears and suspicions seem to be coming true. This is nuts.
She was dating a married doctor who is being protected. He is obviously a manipulative and devious psychopathic narcissist. When someone like that gets into you your whole self is confused by the gaslighting, the sly and consistent demeaning etc. She is young and susseptible to the manipulations of a coward who is probably guilty. What are the chances he set her up to cover his own arse? I would say 90%. A lot higher than the chances that this young lady doing the crime. Narcissists spend time spying on and assessing people to date for nefarious reasons all the time. He didn't have too look far to find her did he? They cannot get dates with people who are together with themselves and have strong boundaries. This is wrongful on every level and yet again the mainstream media ask no questions but are submitting a lot of lies. We need to shake this tree. If a hospital across town is losing babies in greater numbers he is using her like a false flag to take the heat. He could be doing it himself or simply part of the handshake cult.
Not sure she did it. Most serial killers are noted by others as being odd or strange. They dont have many friends. They usually have personality issues that society notices. She doesnt. She has many friends and an active social life. The evidence is circumstantial.
@conniebarkdull NOT TRUE Ted Bundy was attractive and had a large number of friends, BTK was popular, he was head of a church and he doted on his children. The Smiley Face murderer was sociable, had a doting girlfriend. The Green River Killer had a lot of close friends and neighbours and a wife who loved him dearly..etc etc. These serial killers lead a double life and they become serial killers because no one suspects them.
That finger clicking thing reminds me of a U2 story, during a concert Bono starts clicking his fingers saying "everytime i do this a baby dies of starvation", someone in the audience shouts back "stop doing it then!"
Thank you for raising these issues. I am extremely concerned about this case particularly the "expert witnesses" , the data interpretation and the lack of investigation into the plumbing issues and subsequent effects, e.g. pathogens. LL may be guilty but I don't feel any confidence that a thorough investigation was done and that is worrying.
While justice has to be truthful, and sometimes mistakes happen, there are those who will always look for the "get out of jail free" card. Weigh up everything - events, time lines, who was present when babies were harmed..... Babies do not inject themselves with insulin. Dodgy plumbing dies not induce insulin into a body. Babies do not ram medical instrument's down their throats. All you people who think letby is innocent - it may be worth a re-think?
@@melgrant7404 Next time proper scientific experts are needed not so called experts like discredited retired paediatrician Dewi Evans and his NHS mates who just agreed with him.
@@SKisatourist2010 Quality is needed not quantity. The prosecution and trial of Lucy Letby was nothing short of modern day witch burning with Dewi Evans being the chief witchfinder general.
I feel very concerned about this verdict! She has not been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt as most of the evidence was circumstantial even as to what caused the baby's deaths. At the time they did not know the cause of death in most cases, as to why was a best guess by so called experts
What are you talking about? Circumstantial evidence is evidence, you don’t need a video tape of someone committing a crime for them to be found guilty. If the jurors wanted to find her guilty for the hell of it then they would have found her guilty on all counts.
@@Ragdollcatlover It is way more complicated. Circumstantial evidence alone is not usually sufficient to find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The burden of proof was lower in Lucy's trial. See my other comments for details. The judge would have directed the jury to a guilty verdict because there was no choice. Lucy had to be found guilty, regardless of her actual guilt or innocence. Maybe, if she survives in prison, she can one day be released and compensated, like Lucia de Berk (who I suspect actually was guilty, but that is another story!)
The fact that she Facebook search the victims parents and took screenshots of sympathy cards as trophies is not circumstantial! These are predatory behaviours.
Lucy is 100% innocent and S.O.T will get her a decent appeal with proper witnesses and proper evidence so lets have Lucy free a very weak defence and trail. MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS VERDICT, anyone who disagrees needs to look at the case properly and try and put what she is accused of to one side and look at it with a blank canvas it's hard but it has to be done as this is really bad example of a miscarriage of justice.
Yeah this is BS regardless of any of this she doesn't fit the profile, what hard evidence actually is there? I at first was like evil woman then I started to notice things and was like shit, she hasn't done this. When I deap dived I was left horrified. I could find an exploration for everything, her responses - socially awkward. She took medical things home when she knew she was being investigated - trying to solve it herself. She comes across in a manner in front of some parents that isn't the norm - socially unaware. Just because she has friends it doesn't mean she doesn't have social struggles. Collecting random things - ocd as heck, I am autistic you wouldn't believe the things I've hung onto. Searching Facebook on aniversarys of babys's deaths - she cares she wants to know how people are doing. A lot of people do this noways. This is horse sh"t, pardon my language but I'm getting angry somebody is being destroyed by the media and society when they're potentially innocent and have just been sent down for a whole life term. I feel a bit sick
Anybody who says she is 100% innocent does not know what they are talking about - there was a lot of evidence against her, but the case is circumstantial and there are some doubts - maybe 85% she is a monster and guilty, 15% a miscarriage of justice?
@@chrisj8764 Not only was there no compelling evidence against her but there was not even any evidence that anyone was murdered. The pathologist reported natural causes at the post mortems.
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast There's a YTer called crime scene to courtroom who attended the whole trial and he said he thinks Lucy Letby herself jeopardised her defense in her cross examination by contradicting herself
I'll have to take a look at that. Again, just playing devil's advocate but she's on trial in 2023 for things that happened in 2016. Can you remember in detail what happened on particular days 7-8 years ago?
Her defense didn't do much because they knew a guilty verdict was inevitable. There was nothing that could be done for Lucy. She is either guilty or very unlucky to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time (like many other people who suffer horrible fates as a result of such bad luck).
I normally am the first person to want to lynch someone like this from the nearest lamppost, been into true crime since I was about 12 or so (I'm now 37). However I cannot gain any hatred for Lucy Letby at all, something just seems wrong and I'm sticking with she is innocent. Controversial I know but it's a massive gut feeling. Strangest case I have ever witnessed to be honest
@@evab.2099 don’t struggle. If the evidence presented by Scott mclahan is correct it’s clearly shows that the hospital was on serious trouble and was failing. Lucy was sacrificed to divert attention. Eventually all lies come to the surface and the light is shone upon them.. I just wish more people would wake up to this.
Of course you cannot tell what person is capable of by mere looks, however you cannot help being influenced by someone appearance , the Jury sat for many weeks and the deliberation took long too, however this would not the first time a mistake was made (if indeed there was one) it really wouldn't surprise me it they did get it wrong, there seems to be no indication of any mental illness, no known motive, people who knew for long time only had goof things to say about her, something doesn't feel right.
I worked in NICU for 3 years. It is a stressful and very busy place. Babies that you thought would never make it pulled through amazingly but also seemingly much better babies died despite all efforts. Drug doses were so tiny and even a decimel point could kill but these doses were checked and double checked with 2 nurses. Drs and nurses tend to work well together but when trouble arises Drs generally don't support nurses and scape goat them ( not always). Is she guilty? I don't know but it is strange that the deaths stopped when she was moved. If guilty then jail is for her but I don't think we have heard the end of this case.
It could also be because in June 2016 CoCH's neonatal unit stopped admitting high-risk babies. The hospital had been upgraded to allow this, but they didn't have the capacity or expertise to cope.
If u watched the whole video it is pointed out that the exsess deths simingly stoped be ause the ward was made smaaler and changed to care for less terminal babies. So that is the reason, not that Lucy was gone
You’ve summed up this up perfectly. I Also have worked in HDU and ITU as a HCA. The truth is that when on these units it can be 50/50 if a person lives or dies, this case is built on pure circumstantial evidence from What I’ve heard and read and If they can convict her on this weak evidence then they can do this to Anyone of us. This will have such a detrimental effect on recruitment potentially
This was a horrible day for nurses and I wouldn’t want to be one. How the hospital was able to avoid scrutiny by blaming a nurse is beyond me. We have seen this in the past (Lucia de Burke) and clearly never learn from our mistakes. A nurse effectively lost the rest of her life based on wild medical speculation and office gossip. None of the evidence holds up to actual scientific scrutiny
Excellent video. Did you hear of the story coming out of a Birmingham hospital that another killer nurse has been arrested? Is this at all likely? Is this sort of story going to become commonplace? What's more likely, to me, is an underfunded, understaffed healthcare system that isn't very proficient in certain areas and is looking for scapegoats to cover for their failings. I was convinced of LL's guilt at the start of the trail, now I am 70/30 in favour of her being innocent.
I would hate to be a nurse right now. I wouldn’t be able to show any kindness or compassion without it potentially being called predatory behaviour. I would also be terrified of upsetting any doctor with a touchy ego. It must be horrible.@@annazrelli4954
I didn't follow this case but since the sentence I've had a read of so called evidenc e. It seems to me that so called experts don't have any convincing scientific evidence. Her rambling notes which have been taken as damning evidence could have been the confused feeling of a very caring nurse. I can't see that the case was proved beyond any doubt. It seems like a miscarriage of justice to me. I hope she appeals and gets less 'hysterical examination & willingness to accept guilt without convincing evidence. Disgraceful.
There was another English nurse who got sent down for insulin poisoning a few years ago, it turned out it wasn't her in the end and they arrested the real culprit a male phillipino nurse, strange that this was hardly publicised isn't it? The Innocent nurses name was Rebbeca Leighton and the phillipino was called victorino chua, he is doing 35 years now for 2 Murds ant 20 attempted and was found not guilty of another one that he probably did do.
I heard about the male nurse but didn’t know about this nurse who was falsely accused. In work in the nhs but I’m so glad I don’t have to give drugs. Understaffing and stress are making loads of staff leave the service and this will just add to that exodus
She was not sent down. She was arrested, which they have to do if they have suspicion and want to interview you properly I think, all charges were dropped before there was a trial. So the system worked properly. She never went to prison. She was in custody for a week only.
I never seen a case in which it's all about notes and zero fingers prints even being caught red-handed. And why didn't anyone watch her on shift, and set up CCTV.
I've met Lucy a couple of times. She seemed normal and like a game of roulette surely the odds are going to be on your side sooner or later. Meaning if I bet number 7 then the odds are great but not impossible for that number to be spun in 7 times in a row.and this is the same a circumstantial evidence. She was unlucky on her shifts.or maybe someone else was harming the babies and knowing Lucy would be to blame.
I was born in the countess. And being a chester taxi driver I've picked her up a dozen times over the years. Looking at it this way if a woman was murdered on a Wednesday by a guy who.arived home late covered in blood driving a black car and had blonde hair and was wearing Nike trainers.....well that's exactly the description off the murderer. But this pretend guy is unlucky because he got mugged getting into his car and he just happens to fit the description. And he could go to jail because off circumstantial evidence..
Oh really? What do you think of the verdict? One of the things that struck me was how many babies in this case were either multiples (twins, triplets) or conceived through IVF. Both multiples and IVF babies have an increased risk of birth defects and neonatal death.
The rota evidence is statistically fraudulent. See Prof Norman Fenton. You can fit any nurse up if you're allowed to pick and choose which deaths to include. You just keep going until you find a combination where only one nurse is present for all. The rota evidence should have been rejected but the defence barrister dropped the ball by the looks of it.
There are just too many things don't seem right with her conviction. Many other TH-cam channels analyzing this case and saying she is guilty often convince me even more that she may be innocent, just by exposing how gullible and biased people can be.
Some of these babies died within minutes of her being on shift. They went from seemingly stable to a life threatening collapse within minutes. That's all I keep thinking, that is strange to me.
I’ve worked in adult ITU and have seen people who were absolutely fine one minute and then arresting the next. I’ve also seen really sick patients who you think will never survive and then pull through. I don’t believe a word that is coming from these doctors who accused her and the so called expert witnesses. If anything happens to this woman then those bastards are responsible. Oh and one of the doctors was making videos pushing the covid vaccine. We all know how that ended up for some of the people who took it. This country has become a place of pure evil
@@holycannoli64 that wasn't the only piece of evidence, there were many different vantage points which converged & pointed towards only one possible outcome.
@@holycannoli64 what kind of direct evidence would you expect in a case like this? Motive can be established through psychiatric evaluation. I don't know if she's had one though.
The clincher for me was Lucy Letby herself. She is a cold fish, showed very little emotion during her trial, and refused to turn up to her sentencing. If you were innocent you would want every opportunity to shout, scream your innocence, including in your sentencing hearing.
I understand, but she's been inside for 2 and a half years. Possibly innocent with only circumstantial evidence against you and you get found guilty. There's only so much you can fight back
@@michellew4637 If I may hijack this question, I think it is the wrong question to be asking! Nobody knows if LL is guilty or innocent. The point is that she MIGHT be innocent. There are reasons for thinking that she would have been found guilty regardless of her actual guilt or innocence, but that this, although it seems wrong, might actually be justified under the rather unique circumstances of the case.
I believe lucy is innocent. I have been in hospital more times than i can count there is a lot of crap doctors and nurses in the NHS. I had 4 doctors misdiagnosed my cancer as glandular fever. I was eventually diagnosed with lymphoma after multiple returns to the GP and going to get an ultrasound. I believe that Lucy was just a terrible nurse who didn't know what she was doing. I still believe that she should be in jail but not for murder and not for a life time. I do believe that this case was all over media at the right time to distract the nation from certain political problems. I believe Lucy had mental health issues because she knew she was a terrible nurse and may have lead to the deaths. She probably seen herself as a killer because she accidentally put air in the iv and overdosed the insulin. I had insulin for gestational diabetes it's easily done. I accidentally overdosed my insulin because i required a different level of insulin during a heatwave, i needed less insulin during heatwaves.
They weren't prescribed insulin, none of the babies on the ward at that time were supposed to be taking insulin - that is unquestionable deliberate poisoning not a miscalculation in dosage
This case is so strange and unlikely. She fits no pattern known so far of a serial killer. She may be guilty but given the standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt' it does seem wrong that she was convicted based on circumstances and interpretations of written evidence......which could be interpreted differently depending in ones bias.
@@terencebates6808 he was odd..agreed.. but there was direct evidence to link him to the murders. The drugs he acquired to do the job. Majority of serial killers do fit some sort of serial killer profile. The only profile Letby fits so far is that of an innocent person.
@@terencebates6808 so what? There was clear evidence against him. The smoking gun so speak. No such thing with Letby. There are many cases like Lucy letby quashed eventually because the convictions were unsafe.
Between June 2015 and June 2016 fifteen babies died with a further eighteen suddenly collapsing and were successfully resuscitated. In the 7 years since LL was removed there has been ONE fatality. The babies were not injecting themselves with air and insulin. LL was doing it.
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast but if you look at the fatalities per year leading up to the 12 months in question, the numbers were in keeping with the national average. One death in 2010. Three deaths in 2011. Two in 2012. Two in 2013.. sick babies were cared for during those years. I understand what you are saying but LL final 12 months were jaw dropping w/ regards to a surge in numbers. Even with an extra baby to care for or being understaffed here and there... That's NO excuse for hearts to be stopping.
@@caz8929 what is odd that if she does it and then writes about it knowing it is a confession note. they why go to court and say your innocent. this is a very inteligent person; not some dum school drop out. That is what doesn't make sense. Think about it.
I agree that this *may* be a miscarriage of justice, but to say she doesn't look like a serial killer is the problem with people like you and those who think like you. There are possibly thousands of people who fit her image who have gotten away with the most heinous crimes because of this viewpoint. Conversely, there are possibly thousands of people who are innocent, languashing in prison because they present outside of what you and others perceive to be 'social norms'.
Most killers don’t look like her. And those that do often show troubling signs when you dig into their history or personal. Not always, but often. So yes, her look, conduct, character, personal relations and home life are all viable evidence and help paint a picture of her.
Everyone is a little bit crazy, as u mentioned regarding the paper she took home. Beeing a bit crazy and looking people up online does not make somone a murderer. I was in a high pase high stress job with lots of notes and paperwork going hear and there and several times a week I ended bringing papers home with me just because of the stressful job I had. I just forgot to leave them as we had aprons with pockets on as work wear. Simmilair as nurse with pojets on her uniform. I too like to look up people, just from curiosity, doesn't make me a killer and I feel those things have been spun out of control in Lucys case. Not saying she is or isn't guilty, just that the "evidence" is quite thin
@@Spaceghost5446 I honestly don't know where you're going with this. What are you saying? She looked up people on Facebook. Isn't that what people do on Facebook? What else is it for? So people who look up other people on Facebook are murderers? I am not seeing the intent of your question so I'm keeping an open mind as to what you are asking me.
I believe that Lucy is guilty, But I do acknowledge that the evidence against Letby is circumstantial, How ever unlikely it seems it is actually possible that she is innocent. She has a right to an appeal and if she is innocent I hope she can prove it.
Scapegoat. I want to see staffing spreadsheet for everyone present. Cleaners, cooks, EVERYONE. Also I'd like to see stock details for insuline with clear indications of sound recording.
She was doing a lot of overtme and worked nights where children die more of sudden death baby syndrome, so statistically it would seem that she was present more than anyone else when babies died because she was.
This element points to the statistics argument. Ask yourself the chances of tossing a coin 7 times and getting heads with every toss?. The odds are a lot lower than you think; 128-1 it is not millions to 1. Plenty of proof out there highlighting the chances of this happening, including lottery winners. It is dangerous to convict on statistics. Lucia DeBerk in Holland is a good reference point where 'experts' using stats get it wrong.
I was in a jury for over 4 months on the same case that involved torture and murder. One male was on trial in this particular case. Other jurors were pressurizing the rest of us into giving a guilty verdict because they wanted to do some Christmas shopping and didn't want to prolong the trial. This trial was also based on circumstantial evidence. It was also a retrial, because the previous jury couldn't reach a verdict. I have since found out through research, that there were actually 4 re trials altogether.
Very insightful and balanced. My own experience of doing night work (as Lucy mostly did) is, that your mind is in a different place as opposed to daytime, you cannot afford to wander onto your own fantasies (ie a serial killer thinking about who is next) you have to go into autopilot about the tasks you are expected to do otherwise you will make mistakes and even doze off. Likewise when you are coming to the end of the shift around 6-9 am you certainly don't want to create dramas or be involved in any, you just want to get home and sleep. The post-it notes I would suggest are just the stream of conscious ramblings (many of us have done this when facing an ordeal ) of someone tired (due to the night for day life) and alone and just has to dump all these anxieties onto paper as they rush around your mind like a river.
Good Morning William, Thank you for your video and insight on the ‘innocent hypothesis’ - you are amongst the VERY few content creators exploring this. If we examine the diary and notes entries we note from both content and style of writing, Lucy demonstrates polar opposite personality traits. In her diary her notes are well written and the hand writing looks ‘normal’ however of the paper post it notes she comes across as someone who is mentally disturbed. Will, you mention the child unit being downgraded to taking in less seriously ill babies - true but please remember in 2013, 2014, 2015, up till June 2016 it was not downgraded and the death rate was not high in the earlier prior to LUCY COMPLETING A MEDICAL COURSE ON CATHETERS AND COVERED AIR EMBOLISM RISKS. After two weeks of completing the course, the baby morality rates and ‘desaturation’ frequencies increased in the same high risk baby intensive care unit which had not seen this previous to Lucy completing her course. On a personal side, those doubters out there launching a campaign, who would they trust in looking after their own baby - Lucy Letby OR the four Consultants who campaigned to bring awareness to what was going on in the baby unit? I know who I’d trust with the care of my baby. There is a TH-cam video detailing the Police Investigation ‘Operation Hummingbird: The Investigation behind the conviction of Lucy Letby’ This video interviews all the key Police investigators in detail.
What the same doctors who placed tubes incorrectly or not writing the rashes down on the notes at the time only mentioned them in court. I think we should be looking closely at the doctors as well.
Thank you Andy & Holly, There is always doubt on everything in life - nothing is absolute But let’s consider carefully that the Consultants were bringing their concerns to hospital management. If they have an error in their own medical care practices, they wouldn’t be highlighting these issues to management. Please think over how many ‘de-saturation’ of infant mortality was being recovered prior to June 2015. When Lucy completed her course and returned to the intensive care unit, within two weeks the incidents soar. Andy and Holly, would you be capable of writing those notes that Lucy wrote? I think not. Lucy is a highly disturbed person and a highly likeable person ‘nice Lucy’ as she was known in the intensive care unit. The unfortunate victims were innocent premature babies. I am not 99% sure but 100% sure the team of investigating officers did their very best. I would have done likewise. Guys, we have to trust them in their work. Cheshire Police have release a video ‘Operation Hummingbird’ to demonstrate their professionalism and integrity in this case.
@@NA78666 you're 100 per cent sure that they did their best in investigating? Well that's good enough for me. And it's good enough for the Guildford 4. And the Birmingham 6. And David Sellu agrees with you too.
@@holycannoli64 Good Morning holycannoli64. I understand your reasoning. I can see where you are coming from. There are some important things you, me and everyone else who is deeply hurt by this case ought to do. 1) view the Cheshire Police video that I have left a message in this video message section as a ‘stand alone message’ with only the link to the video. 2) Please note the life and times of those above named cases. The situation was different back then. I can name STEPHEN LAWRENCE as a Police miscarriage of justice too. BUT THE SITUATION HERE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (Intensive care unit) and the people here are different (Professional - Consultants, Registrars, Nurses). Here you’ve got BOTH hospital consultants AND police reaching the same decision about Lucy Letby. I have medical training and I understood EVERYTHING the Consultants said in their interviews. 3) THE TEST OF ALL TESTS - WOULD YOU ‘holycannoli64’ HOLD THE SAME OPINON IF YOUR BABY HAD BEEN A VICTIM? I guess it’s easy huh to stand by the way side, not be involved in any part of the investigation, perhaps have no medical knowledge and cast doubt over the dedicated work done by all the professionals in order to bring Lucy Letby to justice. So holycannoli64, ARE YOU SAYING EVEN THE PRESIDING JUDGE GOT IT WRONG TOO, BECAUSE IN HIS SENTENCING, EVERYONE KNEW WHAT MR JUSTICE JAMES GOSS THOUGHTS WERE ON LUCY LETBY Yeah holycannoli64, we are all wrong and you naming completely different events of different times and without any professional records (here we had medical records), miscarriage of justice from the 1970s and 1980s are right. On the basis of completely different cases of different timelines, you display the audacity of doubting the work of the nurses, the consultants, the investigating police teams over many years, the prosecuting team and finally JUDGE MR JUSTICE JAMES GOSS - they have all got it wrong but keyboard warrior holycannoli64 has ‘doubts’ yes by a person who has not had any part in this trial. You are an embarrassment and I feel ashamed of even communicating with a complete idiot as you have shown yourself as here.
Also same happened in Italy & nurse was exonerated in 2021! Letby had been advised to write her bad feelings down? Why was the jury not told this?More babies died year before Lucy Letby began working at that hospital??
Im not sure how we can ignore the spike of deaths followed by that spike disappearing the second she was removed from the ward? I do agree though that this is an extraordinary case and that she does not fit a lot of the social criteria of many serial killers.
Her being removed coincides with the wing being downgraded from neonatal, so there were many less sick babies. So that answers the downturn. There were also other unexplained deaths that she wasn't on shift for, so they didn't include those.
......someone trying to generate / massage the figures against Lucy perhaps ? What about the years BEFORE the 2015 / 2016 apparent spike - anyone looked closely there ? Lucy worked for several years on the same Unit prior to 2015 / 2016. Funny, no abnormal spike(s) seemed apparent then ?
I would asume the medical notes lucy is described as taking home are actually the "handover" notes. At the start of each shift a nurse has a list of patients and the latest information their condtion is written and added to during shift. Its easy to leave in pocket at the end of a shift but usually youd throw it away. It would be extreamy difficult for a nurse to leave the ward with a patients actual medical notes as they are in a A4size file . These notes are viewed and documentation added on a continual basis during each shift by drs ,nurses,pharmacists physios etc. It would be noticed within minuites if they went missing and had lucy taken these home on a regular basis over the years it would have been picked up and been a major issue
You are not allowed to take medical notes home!! The reason for this is the fact that notes can be tampered or fabricated at home!! Why is a nurse taking confidential notes home??? This evidence alone compared to her co-workers shows guilty.
I've kept detailed carbon copies of patient notes for one year. We were the first doctors to describe dengue, decide relevant lab tests and treatment. But, yes I've kept absolute secrecy plus destroyed them once the notes on dengue was established. 😊
@@solapowsj25interesting. Im just getting over dengue after returning from Jamaica 2 weeks ago. They (hospital) said it was mild, headache was anything but!
The only thing that particulair thing shows her beeing guilty at is taking paperwork with her home. It doesn't proove why it was done. I know from personal experiance that bringing paperwork with me home from work happenes wether I like it or not, just because the stress of some professions makes you forget about it and you end up finding it in your pocket at home. It doesn't make me a killer and it doesn't proove anything.
They were from what it sounds, report sheets, not actual notes. We kept these in the Medex, but idk if they handed them off to each other freely. You’d be surprised what nurses inadvertently take home after a long shift. Nothing illegal, but all kinds of stuff gets shoved in your pockets through the day.
Still not 100% convinced either way, but the point about her taking home hospital documents (handover sheets) could be interpreted in various ways. Maybe she was also surprised by the increase in deaths and wanted to do her own research. Maybe she suspected someone else could be causing harm. Maybe she thought she would be accused/framed at a later date and wanted to retain proof of her innocence. Unless there's a confession, how could we know for certain the reason?
Maybe she was also surprised by the increase in deaths and wanted to do her own research: Oh come on Why would anyone want to do their own research :Maybe she suspected someone else could be causing harm". Absolutely not, Then you would tell the police in order to stop babies dying, you would have a duty to do so.. "Maybe she thought she would be accused/framed at a later date and wanted to retain proof of her innocence". Nope Unless there's a confession, how could we know for certain the reason? Guilty people do profess their innocence through fear, denial and simply being an evil person.
@@74griffo it is illegal....it's a big no-no... You cannot take patient identifiable information home. She would have known that, they were there for a reason.
I believe they most definitely have. Remember what we lived through back in 2020/21. That was orchestrated by government and the media is essentially an arm of the government
OK this is my view. The doctors complained That didn't work Letter of apology to Lucy. Doctors probably incensed. How to get own back? A look at work schedule Lucy in tomorrow night 6 pm At 5pm doctor interferes with baby. Result is on Lucy's shift and baby need Resuscitation or dies.
I am ex Police. When a person is arrested for a crime they usually deny it BUT IF the Police arrest an innocent person,who also denies it! The Police think they are being fooled and it may go to trial. I have seen an innocent man go to prison this was. NB He was exonerated later.
Not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt for my liking. It certainly wasn’t what I would of called a fair trial, and for that reason I fully support Lucy’s appeal for a retrial. Examples of Incompetence can clearly be seen right from the most senior of management. So let’s hope they get it right next time.
I'd like to see her appeal it and see what the outcome is - simply because this case has shook my trust in even the most seemingly innocuous of human beings in this world, and my mind feels easier thinking that we can somehow identify, by sight, those who might be capable of such depravity, rather than the alternative, which is that anyone, anywhere, regardless of how ordinary, or caring they may appear, could possibly execute such acts. And i know that the so-called experts tell us constantly that it isn't the case that people engaged in this level of criminality look like stereotypical monsters or offenders, that they're often very normal, often charming and seemingly thoughtful and kind. That said, an appeal would most definitely traumatise the families of these babies more than they already are, and i wouldn't wish that for anyone. It is somebody's life at stake here also , though...and I've followed enough wrongful conviction cases to know that these miscarriages of justice do happen. Right now, though, i do believe she did it. I think this trial was too big for mistakes to be made and i found the consultants involved to be credible and sincere in their concern and their knowledge of what and why this involved criminality. Fyi, your voice is very soothing and easy to listen to and i think it's good that you're covering all angles of this..thanks for the great content .
I think this woman has been stitched up for multiple failings at the trust and specifically in that neonatal unit. The system cannot cope and the truth is people will Die needlessly because the nhs is being decimated in my opinion deliberately. Nurse Recruitment will definitely drop now.
@@andyryan3756 I completely agree with you. Many of my fellow nurses are saying that none of us are safe from horrendous allegations whenever someone chooses. The aftermath of this case should make every nurse shudder
@@annazrelli4954 im sorry to sound like a tin foil hat wearing nut job here but i wouldn’t be surprised if this is all been set up to further the privatisation agenda.. or am I just wearing that hat to tight. I fee so sorry for those babies and there parents but I also Gee sorry for Lucy and her family and friends. I maybe wrong here but there have been other nurses who were prosecuted and there has not been this much public support for them
@@annazrelli4954I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Lucy's lettbys every move was scrutinized so much even down to her childhood bedroom! You'd be scared to breathe as a nurse noe
Before accusing, let alone charging anyone with mass murder it is a good idea to actually re-examine the bodies. Especially bodies that had post mortems and were found to have died from natural causes.
I was gona comment this on your other video but been thinking about it for a few days, seen youd put another letby one up 😊 knowing that you have experience with the system and been around people in the system I for sure know what u mean that she doesn't look like the type it's that and a whole lot of other things. She's said she's the victim of a conspiracy which I kind of believe. It could be possible someone else is to blame and framed Lucy hence why the baby's stopped dying when she'd been taken off the ward. The notes I think were her in a really dark place not a confession! I've not seen everything to do with the case but I think she's innocent. She seemed sentimental that's why she was looking up the parents because she cared not because she'd killed the babies. I've also been done for something I didn't do and even tho minor its followed me my whole adult life so know how they can get it wrong. It seems like a mob mentality!!
She wasn't convicted bc ''there wasn't enough evidence''....it wasn't that there was NO evidence, just not enuf to convict. If she took the hospital paperwork for a reason,she would have had that as her defence. her defence to taking them home (against hospital data protection) ''they came home with me'' ''I collect paper'' -257mediacl notes which were meant to go in the hospital shredder, (on one occasion she waited after shift, stayed late, and stole another nurses handover sheet out of the confidential bin, and took it home) - they had her in court about it, cuz the time she clocked out the hospital-much later than the end of her shift(plus her fav Doctor txt her and said, oh, how come you stayed late?), and the other nurse said i put that in the bin, the cops found it at her house. And the reason she took it, is to Facebook search the Babies parents, AND they had a really hard name to spell, so she needed it steal it. When asked about it in court, she had a moment of ''mask slip'', as she was asked about that parent, and he said, ''Really hard spelling is that name, isn't it''. and she said ''yea'', and he said ''yes, very hard'', and she snapped ''YES!'' cuz she had clocked what he was getting at. he then said, ''u searched them on ur facebook, didn't you''......(yes~she said) and then he said, ''spell it for me?'' and she said ''i cnt.'' And he said, ''Try''.....and she tried but cudnt, and then she got all flustered, and asked for a break. But the court knew that the only way she was able to search facebook, for such a hard unique spelling, of the dead babies family name, was that she stayed late at wrk, and stole it out the confidential shredder box. That is not normal. Trophies that call it.
I don't see how that proves she murdered those babies, it proves she took the note and Facebook searched but that could be for several reasons, Humans are complicated, it could be guilt that she couldn't prevent death and dread seeing the parents so wanted to see them online first to visualise how she will interact with them, it could be to put names to faces so she could acknowledge them or avoid them it could be to send a message on Facebook to them it could be a trophy from a woman who murdered the babies but this is all speculation. What I will say is I suffer from mental health issues and I know in a situation where something serious has happened I would probably look guilty because I do have strange behaviour due to OCD, I wouldn't have done anything wrong but because of my OCD I would have to prove it to myself which would lead me to do strange things, I can't help it I know it's not logical but I still react emotionally. If I was taking notes home and searching for parents on Facebook it would be because I'm piecing parts of my memory together of events and using visual and text aids to prove to myself I didn't do it even though I already know I didn't I would still do this because of my OCD. Then in court when asked why I took notes and Facebook searched I would be nervous saying to prove to myself I didn't do it because that shows doubt and people don't understand OCD. I would likely be very sketchy around the questioning which will make me look even more guilty. Do you see how complicated we humans are? This is speculation but this could have happened to Lucy, she could have developed an OCD fearing mistakes she made cost lives but her memory is blurred and she needs confirmation she didn't do anything wrong, She may even struggle to remember the baby by physical identity or have doubts so draws on memory of the parents of those babies to piece them together using visual aids of the parents on Facebook and hoping for pictures of the baby too. If she was already being suspected she could easily develop OCD and go down this route even if she was confident she never made mistakes or harmed babies intentionally or unintentionally. If this theory was true would also explain the confession notes she did because that's OCD trate, I don't have it this far but many people with OCD develop false memories she may of believed she did do it or again needing to confirm she didn't do it and write it down to confront it, if these notes was done when she was under alot of scrutiny it's very easy for the mind to go down this path even if she had no history of mental illness before. Now im not saying this happened I have no idea what happened im just showing how easily we can all project and speculate out our views and be very convincing, it's dangerous.
I'm following the channel of Jon "Crime Scene 2 Courtroom" ......... and the channel is brilliant !!! . Wow i'm perplexed and addicted to the narration !!! . I feel that we can't see "the elephant in the room" 😞
Several negligence cases are pending relating to this neonatal unit, involving Drs working there during this time. This conviction at best is very unsafe, the Judge addressed the Jury as to the significant amount of circumstantial evidence involved in this case, this is unusual
I'm not claiming any qualifications. This guy has self published a pile of books about narcissism and has a TH-cam channel. Presumably, he's tackling this from the angle of 'she's a narcissist' as that is his claimed area of expertise. It doesn't qualify him to analyse this case any more than you or I. @@Charlie3vans
At 14.17 you suggest she might be a ‘Columbo-style’ nurse trying to find a pattern in the deaths of those little babies - I said exactly that in a couple of posts! I’m so glad you said that too!!!
The notes Lucy had were handover sheets - nurses are sometimes encouraged to keep handover sheets which could help them to support their actions on the wards if it is called into question. I hope they exonerate her.
Baby died at same hospital as Drs put tube into stomach instead of windpipe but that was deemed accidental? Statistics given to jury have been shown to be utterly wrong??
If she didn’t do it, she doesn’t help herself because she doesn’t speak up. Remember the English nanny Louise Woodward in America who was accused of killing two doctors baby. She apparently acted strangely,but when she was convicted she cried out and said she didn’t do it. Later medical evidence showed she didn’t.
she did speak up - she denied it. Not sure what more you wanted. When I see footage of her in custody etc i see someone who just appears shell shocked as the weight of the system comes down on top of her. And her action to not attend the sentencing seems more in line with an innocent person than the psycho narcissist she is said to be. Imagine being innocent and then having to sit through your sentence and the parents of the babies telling you how you have destroyed their lives. Dont think Id want to attend either.
Did Ted Bundy look like a serial killer. You tell me what does a serial killer look like. Even her male best friend who visits her in prison, says she is damaged and in his opinion she is guilty.
He clearly hasn't heard all the word-for-word court transcripts from Crime Scene to courtroom. It's awful to see uninformed randomers making opinion pieces on such an incredibly sensitive topic such as the murder of multiple babies. My heart goes out to the victims families.
If LL is guilty beyond reasonable doubt, why is there doubt? Overwhelming doubt? LL could be the fall guy for someone other individual, or for the Hospital she was employed by.
She’s as guilty as sin, all the evidence and circumstances of the case point to her. The letters she wrote only point to her as the source of the death of those innocent babies.
@@samsung63 If you were perfectly innocent, and squeaky clean, why would you write "I did this" and "I am evil"on a notes in your house? Why would you deny under oath that you didn't know what an air embolus was, immediately before the prosecution produced the evidence of you successfully passing an exam to prevent them in hospital, which proved you clearly lied in court. That alone merits a custodial sentence.....
This case is perplexing. More questions then answers. I an not convinced she is guilty. I can't stop thinking about her mental state now. Locked up for life if you never did anything wrong is more then hell
the Deburgh case is indeed similar. the reason i am opposed to the death penalty : mistakes can be made, and there can be no proper redress for an inaccurate state-sanctioned murder.
I'm keeping an open mind on this but it seems that people are putting too much emphasis on innocuous things - for example the handover notes. Nurse uniforms have pockets, handover at beginning of a busy shift, notes go in pocket along with whatever else they pick up through the shift, go home at end of shift and find the notes there when they go to do the laundry. Not ideal but it happens way more often than most of us would think, hopefully they go in the shredder on the next shift but it is totally plausible that they could pile up and remain on the to do list indefinitely. The Facebook searches - I bet there are way more of us guilty of a good old facebook stalking session than we'd like to admit. The number of deaths is hugely significant as Lucy being on shift at every single collapse is constantly parroted in the media when in reality it looks like they filtered the list down significantly to discount the ones she could not be linked to. The friends and family sticking by her is not really a huge shock whether she did it or not, I don't think many people would manage to accept that someone they knew and loved would be capable of doing something so unthinkable
The police did a thorough 3 year investigation but something doesn't feel right. I'm sure if she's innocent then justice should be done . Feel for the families of the babies and for letby's parents and for the people who believe she's innocent.
The latest trial is very disturbing (Baby K death). The judge directed the jury to consider that Letby has already been found guilty of similar crimes and thus this was acceptable to utilise this information in the deliberation of this case. Talk about furnishing an outcome. This was certainly not a fair trial.
No they didn't. Rose West was known for her awful temper. I'd recommend watching 'Appropriate Adult' which covers Fred's and Rose's capture and arrest. She is a proper nasty witch.
Confirmation bias is a problem, especially where there is no clear evidence of any murder. Just a tragic string of deaths, probably a result of understaffing, under training and hospital acquired infections.
Thanks William. Your video is definitely food for thought. I often see people on social media crying out for the return of capital punishment in the UK, and this seems like a perfect example of why it was abolished in the first place. Bit off topic I know, sorry. Personally I do have faith in this conviction, the jury felt confident 'beyond reasonable doubt' so it's going to be very odd if it turns out if wasn't Letby. Anyway! hope you have a great week.
The Jury apparently were not, as a whole, cognisant of Medical matters and their expertise (and subsequent decision) appears to rest solely, or very largely, with the emotional content of the trial. Several Jurors wished for "time out" at one point in the trial, and i believe the Judge, Mr. Justice Goss, acceeded to this request. That should have been investigated more.........i remember one Juror retired from the case on personal grounds - whether that reason would have any connection with the tenor of the case we will probably never know........were they unhappy to proceed, knowing, or feeling, that Lucy's conviction was on shaky ground, and therefore, in doubt........questions, and more questions.....
if she was innocent she would have turned up to her sentenceing and would have been hysterical in tears and screams saying i did not do this after been giveing a life term for each child but no she stayed away guilty as sin and knows she has been caught,,her actions are an admission in itself,,
The verdicts were given in stages. She was present for the first few verdicts and she WAS in a severely distressed state. She didn’t appear for the latter verdicts or the sentence. Perhaps that was her way of disputing the verdicts?
@17:11; You are correct, that is the tactics they use. How extreme are they with though? If they found evidence that completely exonerates her and proves she's innocent, that evidence would be discarded, would it? They need to change the law, this practice is insane. They're are supposed to be the 'good guys'.
Thank you very much for your video. We must be sure she did this and she is in the right place. The department was downgraded, because it was not well organised and the nurses incl Lucy Letby had to do extra shifts all the time. And that is wrong when you look after tiny and very sick babies.
@@ZoeW335 it’s a complete coverup, she was used as a patsy to divert attention away from what has been really going on. Those kids were not murdered they died through gross mismanagement by the doctors i suspect. I’m not saying the management are innocent but have you noticed that only the chief nurse has been suspended. I think her name is Alison Kelly or something like that. I pray that Lucy gets a retrial because that poor woman is going to go insane if she is not mentally strong. She was sacrificed to save the trust and by proxy the government yet another hospital scandal
@@andyryan3756 yeah am not great with words but I know when something doesn't feel right and this doesn't feel right at all. They're also picking at the way she responds to things. I am autistic, some people don't respond in ways that suit everyone and people are focussing on that. That proves nothing either. I'm not saying she is autistic but I'm seeing a lot of autistic behaviours here (yes some of us do socialise and are successful) collecting random things, loneliness, obsession, perfectionism. Sorry to anyone who doesn't like this im only seeing what is there Until she confesses herself I won't believe it. Even if they find more evidence it wouldn't surprise me if it was planted Im terrified to say this offline but I'm only going on what's there
I agree also LL IS GUILTY---- THE FOCUS HAD TO BE ALL ABOUT LUCY GETTING ATTENTION--- SHALLOW MINDED INDEED --- CHILDISH BEHAVOUIR--- BEEN AN ONLY CHILD BOUGHT UP GETTING HER OWN WAY---- HER MIND SET IS WAY OFF FRM WORKING IN KIND OF HOSPITAL ----
If lucy was innocent then why didn't she scream and shout for the crimes she didn't do.!!We have not seen or heard all the evidence for this trial ,I worked in a hospital on a ward and we wasn't allowed to take any notes or papers on the patients,so I find that weird they were under her bed in a bag.!! We are never going to know the full details but I still think she is guilty.
Who knows how one would react under this awful experience, if she is innocent. Some people freeze up under extreme circumstances. I also have a suspicion she might be autistic. These types are renound for honesty. If anything
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The coverage of this is misleading beyond belief. Baby G for instance - I was listening to a MSM programme about it and in the case of this child the presenter said: "Baby G was under the supervision of Lucy L" No! baby G wasn't under her supervision baby G was under the supervision of a different nurse who was working that night, in a different room to Lucy L. MISLEADING CLAIM!
And did you know hours before baby G died 2 Doctors entered the room, closed the curtain and performed a procedure behind said curtain for a period of time on baby G?
(Procedure here is to always open the curtains so babies can be seen at all times)!!!!!!!!!
They then walked away from the cot leaving the curtains pulled closed. They then told the nurse who was assigned to baby G (not Lucy) that they had left the curtains closed and could she open them. which she did....
IT WAS MINS. AFTER ALL THIS that Lucy went into that room, where the baby milk was stored incidentally - everybody was in and out of here...... When she saw the baby G machine was unplugged? so within mins of the assigned nurse leaving she brought her back in.
Both Doctors and that nurse blamed Lucy because she was in that room, They said they hadn't done anything? so it must be her....... just like that? Believed? Why?
Why haven't these 3 been investigated and why were they never questioned as suspects? SHE WAS NOT THE ONLY NURSE TO TEND TO THIS CHILD THAT WASNT EVEN UNDER HER SUPERVISION. ITS A JOKE.
Its also said that the Doctor who was a married man and who was having relations with Lucy Letby had anonymity in court? WHY? Also he was on duty everytime lucy supposedly killed a baby? Why wasn't he on the LIST? WHY WHY WHY ?
The media is twisting and bending the information, more so, since the conviction.
It's difficult to get reliable information, who and what can you believe.
I was expecting the powers that be, to release the evidence ie; full police interview.
I'm not convinced about the verdict.
They treated a relationship with a doctor as if it were worse than murder
6 of the 7 babies Lucy was supposed to have murdered had autopsies and were found to have died from natural causes. Why then was a retired paediatrician allowed to overrule the pathologists by just looking at a few radiographs? Dr Dewi Evans was not a pathologist or forensic scientist and had no experience of investigating mass murder in a hospital setting. And Evans had already been discredited by a senior judge in a previous case for writing a report that was worthless.
You'd think, at the very least, the bodies would need to be re-examined before accusing anyone of mass murder let alone charging them with mass murder.
This case stinks more than the sewage that routinely leaked into the neonatal unit.
HUGE! How the hell has she been convicted twice? There seems to be reasonable doubt from multiple different angles?! The main stream media has been an utter disgrace in this case. They have gone so hard against her, dramatising everything. I am sure they want to turn this case into a movie they can make money off
All the women in my family are nurses ( wife, mum, sister and an Aunty ). They all say the same thing. She the scapegoat covering up for the bad management. I’ve heard all of them say at different times that the NHS is mismanaged very bad. They like covering things up too. My Mum worked with someone that got transferred from Stoke Mandeville hospital to Milton Keynes hospital. The reason she got transferred was because she was making sure the patients were ok. She walked into one room to check up on a woman that was paralysed from the neck down. A certain celebrity that wore tracksuits with long blonde hair was on top of her. So she reported what she had seen to the management, how told her they would handle it and for her to be quiet. Well nothing happened as he came back the next week so she kicked off this time. So they transferred her to MK hospital.
This is one of the bizarre aspects of our legal system. Courts routinely disregard or downplay serious professional work relevant to the case in favour of Court-ordered ad hoc superficial reports done after the fact by often less qualified people who know far less about the particular case. Pathologists' reports by pathologists who examined the bodies at the time? Pah! What we need is the less informed opinion of one of our panel of rent-a-quote "experts". Why on Earth do they do this?
Heavens above. So much evil in this world.
I have also felt that she is not guilty. There is a nagging feeling that something doesn't add up.
I agree, solely from my experience around criminals, I don't believe she is one
The more I read about her case; the more I feel uneasy about her conviction!..
I don't care if she is guilty or not I do care how they got a conviction ,no witness ,no confession imbedded or otherwise ,no motive only an imagined one by the prosecution ,and presented as evidence to emotionally sway the jury ,as if they needed it the media had already found her guilty . As for expert witnesses they are men of straw bought and paid for by the state. Now we all know how often they are wrong nearly always . cluster deaths are quite common in medicine a lot go unexplained . If the police want to convict you they will they will select ,what they know they can put forward to make you look guilty. Then the prosecution puts forward theories as evidence . She was fitted up, once they had spent money on the investigation police were pressured into "getting a result" as they say. I don't know how the prosecution and police sleep at nights
I agree with you entirely. It was a stitch up.
There is no evidence that anyone was murdered.
Nick Tucker is another case where somehow a jury found him guilty of murder when there was a complete lack of any evidence to suggest it.
These things probably happen more than we think.
@@marvins42 T'is true , I must red through before pressing button
You have brought out some very important issues here.......all pointing to Lucy not being guilty as charged and, therefore, she must be given the opportunity to have formidable, accurate Defence in addition to not being beaten down when speaking for herself....and, not concentrating on her private life and vilifying her.
Watch the vids on Operation Hummingbird and Crime Scene to Courtroom to see. There is a mountain of evidence solidifying her guilt!
If she didnt do it just imagine how terrible her life must be right now. Shes unlikely to survive in one piece in prison
And even if she get free one day:
The whole world is pointing at her
@@evab.2099 She won't be getting free one day. Not even half a day.
Or, she is tremendously brave and resilient.......
@@Brian-om2hh A year later and the prosecution case has fallen apart. Lucy will be freed and exonerated sooner rather than later.
I don’t know if she is innocent however in my opinion there is absolutely not enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to to convict her. I don’t know how a jury convicted her
You were not at court you did not see and hear the evidence , why would your opinion matter?
Because there was actually enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt, contrary to your opinion, perhaps?
@@SKisatourist2010 there was no credible evidence. It's a clear case of a gross miscarriage of justice to anyone who has bothered to look at the evidence presented and who has the intellectual capacity to understand it.
Luckily the jury sat through a 9 month trial and don't agree with you or are you saying they did not havw the intellectual capacity. How arrogant.
@@janlittle2148 the jury got it completely wrong. Quite obviously.
Hardly the first time that's happened. And I highly doubt that they understood most of the medical evidence.
I am a psychiatrist. I too believe there should be more evidence before accusing some one with something THIS serious
What's your job got to do with any of that?
It shows he or she has a background in mental health - it is quite appropriate to mention that, as far as interest in the case goes. I’m an artist, btw!
Thank for this. Thought i was going crazy and was the only british person who felt this wauy. Not saying she didnt do it but theres not enough evidence in my opinion to say she did. This is bad. She doesnt fit the profile at all, not one bit + theres only circumstantial evidence, none of it fits. People need to look at logic and not their feelings here. Ive never felt this strongly over a case. Until she confesses herself or theres hard evidence i dont think ill believe it
NO
Something is not sitting right with me. I just get a feeling she hasn't done it.
It seems to me that she was guilty in most people's minds before she set foot in court. Most people's responses are highly emotional to anything concerning babies. I don't know if she's guilty or not. What I do know is that lots of lawyers, scientists and statisticians are all expressing deep concerns re: the evidence presented and they should be taken seriously.
They are all crazy people, those who are "expressing deep concerns", don't pay any attention to them.
They even think all those witches we burned, weren't really witches. Bloody idiots.
You are correct ,she was tried by media she did not stand a chance in hell of getting a fair trial
@@rolandhawken6628 totally tried by media. Everytime something pops up saying how evil she is I can't help but cringe. At first I fell for the media parade but piece by piece I'm like wtf actually is happening here. If this is wrong, which I'm thinking it is, this is disgusting.
@@ZoeW335Agreed there is not a lot of difference between now and the days of the Witchfinder General , when some thing goes wrong there has to be some one to blame . The media should know nothing until the trial is over ,the jury system should be scrapped ,and replaced by people who only deal in facts not theories , if facts and hard evidence is not forthcoming the trial is thrown out . I don't think the ward was even shut down as a crime scene ,she was fitted up by the police they probably overspent on investigating her and turned up SFA so then they got creative ,and poured in a hundred weight of paper and multiple charges to make an illusion of guilt . They had pressure from above and the good old press pushing for blood .
I disagree. Most people just couldn't believe that someone so young and angelic-looking could kill babies. It's also the reason that videos like this one even exist!
She is innocent imo but the miscarriage of justice is there was not even close to enough evidence to prove her guilt. Shame on the jury making emotional decisions
Oh let's blame the jury then. For goodness sake get a grip
@@janlittle2148 The jurors just fell in line. It’s a microcosm of the lack of free thinkers today
@@janlittle2148 The jury was presented with flawed evidence.
@@ruthbashford3176 And you were there, and saw the evidence for yourself, so you'll know, right?
Hear, hear....++++
I'm a registered nurse who has followed this case closely. I do NOT believe that she is guilty
Why? I'm genuinely curious and not trying to start a fight🧡
I started out with the view that she was guilty, after learning more about the case and hearing the evidence, I'm not so sure.
@@SendMeToTheVoidthank you for your question. Without going into an essay, there's just no evidence that she murdered any of the babies. The unit was incredibly understaffed and they were breaking their own policies regarding the ratio of nurses to babies. The CQC report for the year 2015-16 was just shocking. The unit was accepting extremely poorly babies that they were not equipped or specialised to take (this stopped after Lucy was removed from the unit. Post mortems were not done on the babies at the time of their death because the doctors believed they had died of natural causes. These same doctors and consultants only accused Lucy of murder after she had taken out a grievance against the hospital and after questions were being asked about the number of deaths. Having worked as a nurse for over 20 years I've seen cover ups and witnessed corruption at the most senior level. I've only listed a few reasons why I do not believe that she is guilty. I promise you there are many more. Take a look at the website Science on Trial and you'll see so many extremely specialist health care professionals (much more so than me) give multiple reasons as to why this conviction appears to be a gross miscarriage of justice.
@@annazrelli4954very interesting
The evidence that she is guilty is woefully lacking in my opinion. I can't see how it can be "beyond reasonable doubt". It's a high bar and it hasn't been met in this case, to my mind.
I feel she has been scapegoated. Just can’t see any actual proof of guilt. It all seems circumstantial. Feel she may be on the spectrum. High functioning but
with poor communication and poor boundaries. Trouble processing negative thoughts. Naive. She also showed evidence of poor self esteem. Something not sitting right in my mind.
I totally agree with the spectrum thing. I'm on the spectrum and I can totally see the way she's responding is how somebody with autism would, not somebody whose guilty. Assertive yet totally socially unaware, this is all I'm seeing
Sorry I'd like to add a little before somebody jumps on me and says, yeah but she's out all the time and has friends. She's a woman, women respond to things very differently to men, most of the research before 2000s was solely based on men. Women are naturally much more social beings. You can definitely appear social but still be socially unaware and have social anxieties. Trust me I have lived through it, it's exhausting and part of the masking we do to fit in. At letbys age she still has a lot of energy, I gave up with masking 10 years ago
Yes agree, I’m also a nurse on the spectrum, and this is one of the things I noticed when researching this case.
@@sarahchapman7863 I'm not a nurse but I do know a hell of a lot about autism and neuro diversity. She looks proper autistic to me and everything people are saying about the way she responds is stuff I've heard so many times. 'youre lying you can't even look at me' was one of mine, well no I don't really look at anyvody lol. People have this idea of how everyone should be and it sucks. I want facts to say she's guilty, not this nonsense. I'm really not sure on her guilt here people keep sh*****g on me for it but it's a feeling I just can't shake and the more I deep dive the more my fears and suspicions seem to be coming true. This is nuts.
She was dating a married doctor who is being protected. He is obviously a manipulative and devious psychopathic narcissist. When someone like that gets into you your whole self is confused by the gaslighting, the sly and consistent demeaning etc. She is young and susseptible to the manipulations of a coward who is probably guilty. What are the chances he set her up to cover his own arse? I would say 90%. A lot higher than the chances that this young lady doing the crime. Narcissists spend time spying on and assessing people to date for nefarious reasons all the time. He didn't have too look far to find her did he? They cannot get dates with people who are together with themselves and have strong boundaries. This is wrongful on every level and yet again the mainstream media ask no questions but are submitting a lot of lies. We need to shake this tree. If a hospital across town is losing babies in greater numbers he is using her like a false flag to take the heat. He could be doing it himself or simply part of the handshake cult.
Even as a carer in a home I can see how easily the people at the top use the frontliners as scapegoats
Not sure she did it. Most serial killers are noted by others as being odd or strange. They dont have many friends. They usually have personality issues that society notices. She doesnt. She has many friends and an active social life. The evidence is circumstantial.
Unfactual!
False. Check Chris Watts casse and Brian and Gabby Pettito. Psychos can wear masks long time
Ted Bundy was very nice with his girlfriend, looked normal, but was a sycopathic killer. Stupid to say you can spot a serial killer.
Agree. This case has giant red flags for miscarriage of justice. Over reliance on uncontested expert medical opinion for one.
@conniebarkdull NOT TRUE Ted Bundy was attractive and had a large number of friends, BTK was popular, he was head of a church and he doted on his children. The Smiley Face murderer was sociable, had a doting girlfriend. The Green River Killer had a lot of close friends and neighbours and a wife who loved him dearly..etc etc. These serial killers lead a double life and they become serial killers because no one suspects them.
That finger clicking thing reminds me of a U2 story, during a concert Bono starts clicking his fingers saying "everytime i do this a baby dies of starvation", someone in the audience shouts back "stop doing it then!"
Brilliant, ha ha…@@50milliondownthedraintonym16
There are so many deaths at the said hospital, that everytime LL walks onto the ward a baby dies……
@@marinka424 and every time I've seen a fire I've seen a fireman. Doesn't mean the fireman started the fire though does it
That's actually apocryphal. And the punchline is "stop clicking... you evil bastard"
She has no history indicating anything criminal. Something stinks.
Yeah cause in all of history there has never been someone who committed a crime with no previous history. Pull your head out of your ass
Exactly she has no red flags , I honestly believe the NHS is at fault medical negligence and Lucy’s is being used as a scapegoat
Neither did Myra Hindley
@@Nick_80599 yeah and she had someone influencing her like this letby girl probly had
Thank you for raising these issues. I am extremely concerned about this case particularly the "expert witnesses" , the data interpretation and the lack of investigation into the plumbing issues and subsequent effects, e.g. pathogens. LL may be guilty but I don't feel any confidence that a thorough investigation was done and that is worrying.
I think she is being made a scape goat
O so called plumbing issues induce insulin in anybogy?
While justice has to be truthful, and sometimes mistakes happen, there are those who will always look for the "get out of jail free" card. Weigh up everything - events, time lines, who was present when babies were harmed..... Babies do not inject themselves with insulin. Dodgy plumbing dies not induce insulin into a body. Babies do not ram medical instrument's down their throats. All you people who think letby is innocent - it may be worth a re-think?
There were 17 deaths, she was present at 7 of them.@danswhite8544
The 'Science On Trial' site goes into detail re the insulin.@@user-iq3mp5zo8z
I would deem it necessary more experts look at this case of Lucy Letby.
How many more. It won't make a difference.
250 witnesses and you won’t accept what they have to say. WTF?
@@melgrant7404 Next time proper scientific experts are needed not so called experts like discredited retired paediatrician Dewi Evans and his NHS mates who just agreed with him.
@@SKisatourist2010 Quality is needed not quantity. The prosecution and trial of Lucy Letby was nothing short of modern day witch burning with Dewi Evans being the chief witchfinder general.
@@ruthbashford3176 So, you'd be more than happy to allow Letby to look after an infant of yours then?
I feel very concerned about this verdict! She has not been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt as most of the evidence was circumstantial even as to what caused the baby's deaths. At the time they did not know the cause of death in most cases, as to why was a best guess by so called experts
I'm also concerned
What are you talking about? Circumstantial evidence is evidence, you don’t need a video tape of someone committing a crime for them to be found guilty. If the jurors wanted to find her guilty for the hell of it then they would have found her guilty on all counts.
@@Ragdollcatlover It is way more complicated. Circumstantial evidence alone is not usually sufficient to find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The burden of proof was lower in Lucy's trial. See my other comments for details. The judge would have directed the jury to a guilty verdict because there was no choice. Lucy had to be found guilty, regardless of her actual guilt or innocence. Maybe, if she survives in prison, she can one day be released and compensated, like Lucia de Berk (who I suspect actually was guilty, but that is another story!)
The fact that she Facebook search the victims parents and took screenshots of sympathy cards as trophies is not circumstantial! These are predatory behaviours.
They can be seen that way, but they are also actions of someone who cares
Lucy is 100% innocent and S.O.T will get her a decent appeal with proper witnesses and proper evidence so lets have Lucy free a very weak defence and trail.
MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS VERDICT, anyone who disagrees needs to look at the case properly and try and put what she is accused of to one side and look at it with a blank canvas it's hard but it has to be done as this is really bad example of a miscarriage of justice.
Yeah this is BS regardless of any of this she doesn't fit the profile, what hard evidence actually is there? I at first was like evil woman then I started to notice things and was like shit, she hasn't done this. When I deap dived I was left horrified. I could find an exploration for everything, her responses - socially awkward. She took medical things home when she knew she was being investigated - trying to solve it herself. She comes across in a manner in front of some parents that isn't the norm - socially unaware. Just because she has friends it doesn't mean she doesn't have social struggles. Collecting random things - ocd as heck, I am autistic you wouldn't believe the things I've hung onto. Searching Facebook on aniversarys of babys's deaths - she cares she wants to know how people are doing. A lot of people do this noways. This is horse sh"t, pardon my language but I'm getting angry somebody is being destroyed by the media and society when they're potentially innocent and have just been sent down for a whole life term. I feel a bit sick
Anybody who says she is 100% innocent does not know what they are talking about - there was a lot of evidence against her, but the case is circumstantial and there are some doubts - maybe 85% she is a monster and guilty, 15% a miscarriage of justice?
So what was the solid evidence in your opinion?
@@ZoeW335she is not being found guilty by society and the media.she was found guilty by a jury.
@@chrisj8764 Not only was there no compelling evidence against her but there was not even any evidence that anyone was murdered. The pathologist reported natural causes at the post mortems.
What about if she's innocent, but her defense simply didn't do a good enough job. Would that justify a re-trial, surely not?
New evidence or collapse of previous evidence is needed.
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast There's a YTer called crime scene to courtroom who attended the whole trial and he said he thinks Lucy Letby herself jeopardised her defense in her cross examination by contradicting herself
I'll have to take a look at that. Again, just playing devil's advocate but she's on trial in 2023 for things that happened in 2016. Can you remember in detail what happened on particular days 7-8 years ago?
Her defense didn't do much because they knew a guilty verdict was inevitable. There was nothing that could be done for Lucy. She is either guilty or very unlucky to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time (like many other people who suffer horrible fates as a result of such bad luck).
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast Totally understand your point. Just commenting on this guy who had a very unique perspective than most other people.
So many more questions about this case, that need to be answered.
I normally am the first person to want to lynch someone like this from the nearest lamppost, been into true crime since I was about 12 or so (I'm now 37). However I cannot gain any hatred for Lucy Letby at all, something just seems wrong and I'm sticking with she is innocent. Controversial I know but it's a massive gut feeling. Strangest case I have ever witnessed to be honest
Go with your human instinct. In most cases it’s normally right
I agree with you entirely
Same…I struggled a lot with the fact she did it-
It did just not feel right….
@@evab.2099 don’t struggle. If the evidence presented by Scott mclahan is correct it’s clearly shows that the hospital was on serious trouble and was failing. Lucy was sacrificed to divert attention. Eventually all lies come to the surface and the light is shone upon them.. I just wish more people would wake up to this.
but not always. @@andyryan3756
Yes brother! Let's keep deep diving into this case! I think there's so much more to come out!
The verdict is on very soft sand and there's a history of people getting these decisions wrong
@@WilliamBonneyPodcastwhat history? What cases are you referring to?
@@Ragdollcatlover Do some research. You'll find many miscarriages of justice, throughout history.
Lucia de berk is a good example
Yes more horrific deaths caused by Letby.
Of course you cannot tell what person is capable of by mere looks, however you cannot help being influenced by someone appearance , the Jury sat for many weeks and the deliberation took long too, however this would not the first time a mistake was made (if indeed there was one) it really wouldn't surprise me it they did get it wrong, there seems to be no indication of any mental illness, no known motive, people who knew for long time only had goof things to say about her, something doesn't feel right.
Cant wait for Lucy to get justice and sue the NHS and the police.
I worked in NICU for 3 years. It is a stressful and very busy place. Babies that you thought would never make it pulled through amazingly but also seemingly much better babies died despite all efforts. Drug doses were so tiny and even a decimel point could kill but these doses were checked and double checked with 2 nurses. Drs and nurses tend to work well together but when trouble arises Drs generally don't support nurses and scape goat them ( not always). Is she guilty? I don't know but it is strange that the deaths stopped when she was moved. If guilty then jail is for her but I don't think we have heard the end of this case.
It could also be because in June 2016 CoCH's neonatal unit stopped admitting high-risk babies. The hospital had been upgraded to allow this, but they didn't have the capacity or expertise to cope.
If u watched the whole video it is pointed out that the exsess deths simingly stoped be ause the ward was made smaaler and changed to care for less terminal babies. So that is the reason, not that Lucy was gone
Did you not hear that when she moved they stopped taking in sick babies. So it’s not suspicious actually
You’ve summed up this up perfectly. I
Also have worked in HDU and ITU as a HCA. The truth is that when on these units it can be 50/50 if a person lives or dies, this case is built on pure circumstantial evidence from
What I’ve heard and read and If they can convict her on this weak evidence then they can do this to
Anyone of us. This will have such a detrimental effect on recruitment potentially
This was a horrible day for nurses and I wouldn’t want to be one. How the hospital was able to avoid scrutiny by blaming a nurse is beyond me. We have seen this in the past (Lucia de Burke) and clearly never learn from our mistakes. A nurse effectively lost the rest of her life based on wild medical speculation and office gossip. None of the evidence holds up to actual scientific scrutiny
Excellent video.
Did you hear of the story coming out of a Birmingham hospital that another killer nurse has been arrested?
Is this at all likely?
Is this sort of story going to become commonplace?
What's more likely, to me, is an underfunded, understaffed healthcare system that isn't very proficient in certain areas and is looking for scapegoats to cover for their failings.
I was convinced of LL's guilt at the start of the trail, now I am 70/30 in favour of her being innocent.
I think that she's innocent. God help all of us nurses
I would hate to be a nurse right now. I wouldn’t be able to show any kindness or compassion without it potentially being called predatory behaviour. I would also be terrified of upsetting any doctor with a touchy ego. It must be horrible.@@annazrelli4954
@@annazrelli4954I have my doubts too. Please reply to me.
Amen.
@@annazrelli4954 Why?
I didn't follow this case but since the sentence I've had a read of so called evidenc e. It seems to me that so called experts don't have any convincing scientific
evidence. Her rambling notes which have been taken as damning evidence could have been the confused feeling of a very caring nurse. I can't see that the case was proved beyond any doubt. It seems like a miscarriage of justice to me. I hope she appeals and gets less 'hysterical examination & willingness to accept guilt without convincing evidence. Disgraceful.
There was another English nurse who got sent down for insulin poisoning a few years ago, it turned out it wasn't her in the end and they arrested the real culprit a male phillipino nurse, strange that this was hardly publicised isn't it? The Innocent nurses name was Rebbeca Leighton and the phillipino was called victorino chua, he is doing 35 years now for 2 Murds ant 20 attempted and was found not guilty of another one that he probably did do.
Not surprising at all tbh, welcome to our new world where only certain people are EVIL ;)
@@merrymeditation 100%
I heard about the male nurse but didn’t know about this nurse who was falsely accused. In work in the nhs but I’m so glad I don’t have to give drugs. Understaffing and stress are making loads of staff leave the service and this will just add to that exodus
She was not sent down. She was arrested, which they have to do if they have suspicion and want to interview you properly I think, all charges were dropped before there was a trial. So the system worked properly. She never went to prison. She was in custody for a week only.
@@EvilGrapefruit but it most definitely has got it wrong on this case.
I never seen a case in which it's all about notes and zero fingers prints even being caught red-handed.
And why didn't anyone watch her on shift, and set up CCTV.
Police wear cameras. Perhaps medical staff in acute situations should?
I've met Lucy a couple of times. She seemed normal and like a game of roulette surely the odds are going to be on your side sooner or later. Meaning if I bet number 7 then the odds are great but not impossible for that number to be spun in 7 times in a row.and this is the same a circumstantial evidence. She was unlucky on her shifts.or maybe someone else was harming the babies and knowing Lucy would be to blame.
Exactly what I have always thought .... in my view, she was stitched up
I was born in the countess. And being a chester taxi driver I've picked her up a dozen times over the years. Looking at it this way if a woman was murdered on a Wednesday by a guy who.arived home late covered in blood driving a black car and had blonde hair and was wearing Nike trainers.....well that's exactly the description off the murderer. But this pretend guy is unlucky because he got mugged getting into his car and he just happens to fit the description. And he could go to jail because off circumstantial evidence..
Oh really? What do you think of the verdict?
One of the things that struck me was how many babies in this case were either multiples (twins, triplets) or conceived through IVF. Both multiples and IVF babies have an increased risk of birth defects and neonatal death.
How about throwing that 7 23 times on the trot?
The rota evidence is statistically fraudulent. See Prof Norman Fenton.
You can fit any nurse up if you're allowed to pick and choose which deaths to include. You just keep going until you find a combination where only one nurse is present for all. The rota evidence should have been rejected but the defence barrister dropped the ball by the looks of it.
There are just too many things don't seem right with her conviction. Many other TH-cam channels analyzing this case and saying she is guilty often convince me even more that she may be innocent, just by exposing how gullible and biased people can be.
Except you obviously
@@janlittle2148 No, there are other people who are not convinced she is guilty.
Some of these babies died within minutes of her being on shift. They went from seemingly stable to a life threatening collapse within minutes. That's all I keep thinking, that is strange to me.
Not sufficient evidence to send someone to jail for life though.
I’ve worked in adult ITU and have seen people who were absolutely fine one minute and then arresting the next. I’ve also seen really sick patients who you think will never survive and then pull through. I don’t believe a word that is coming from these doctors who accused her and the so called expert witnesses. If anything happens to this woman then those bastards are responsible. Oh and one of the doctors was making videos pushing the covid vaccine. We all know how that ended up for some of the people who took it. This country has become a place of pure evil
@@holycannoli64 that wasn't the only piece of evidence, there were many different vantage points which converged & pointed towards only one possible outcome.
@@leen1q84 no direct evidence. No motive. All circumstantial. Overall very weak. Hard to see how it meets beyond reasonable doubt standard.
@@holycannoli64 what kind of direct evidence would you expect in a case like this? Motive can be established through psychiatric evaluation. I don't know if she's had one though.
The clincher for me was Lucy Letby herself. She is a cold fish, showed very little emotion during her trial, and refused to turn up to her sentencing. If you were innocent you would want every opportunity to shout, scream your innocence, including in your sentencing hearing.
I understand, but she's been inside for 2 and a half years. Possibly innocent with only circumstantial evidence against you and you get found guilty. There's only so much you can fight back
Nah, she was withdrawn becuase of the horror of it all, that's all. She was a deer in the headlights.
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast Agreed. She was a deer in the headlights.
@WilliamBonneyPodcast in your opinion, do you think LL is innocent?
@@michellew4637 If I may hijack this question, I think it is the wrong question to be asking! Nobody knows if LL is guilty or innocent. The point is that she MIGHT be innocent. There are reasons for thinking that she would have been found guilty regardless of her actual guilt or innocence, but that this, although it seems wrong, might actually be justified under the rather unique circumstances of the case.
I believe lucy is innocent. I have been in hospital more times than i can count there is a lot of crap doctors and nurses in the NHS. I had 4 doctors misdiagnosed my cancer as glandular fever. I was eventually diagnosed with lymphoma after multiple returns to the GP and going to get an ultrasound. I believe that Lucy was just a terrible nurse who didn't know what she was doing. I still believe that she should be in jail but not for murder and not for a life time. I do believe that this case was all over media at the right time to distract the nation from certain political problems.
I believe Lucy had mental health issues because she knew she was a terrible nurse and may have lead to the deaths. She probably seen herself as a killer because she accidentally put air in the iv and overdosed the insulin. I had insulin for gestational diabetes it's easily done. I accidentally overdosed my insulin because i required a different level of insulin during a heatwave, i needed less insulin during heatwaves.
The incident was deliberately added to the fluid bag.
'believing' is not the same as 'knowing'.
They weren't prescribed insulin, none of the babies on the ward at that time were supposed to be taking insulin - that is unquestionable deliberate poisoning not a miscalculation in dosage
This case is so strange and unlikely. She fits no pattern known so far of a serial killer. She may be guilty but given the standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt' it does seem wrong that she was convicted based on circumstances and interpretations of written evidence......which could be interpreted differently depending in ones bias.
Shipman was a serial killer who was a well respected 'normal' GP. Serial killers come in all forms, it is not a simple label to apply.
@@terencebates6808 he was odd..agreed.. but there was direct evidence to link him to the murders. The drugs he acquired to do the job.
Majority of serial killers do fit some sort of serial killer profile. The only profile Letby fits so far is that of an innocent person.
You are so right......flimsy at best.....
You need to be careful with this. Shipman came across as perfectly normal.
@@terencebates6808 so what? There was clear evidence against him. The smoking gun so speak. No such thing with Letby. There are many cases like Lucy letby quashed eventually because the convictions were unsafe.
Between June 2015 and June 2016 fifteen babies died with a further eighteen suddenly collapsing and were successfully resuscitated.
In the 7 years since LL was removed there has been ONE fatality.
The babies were not injecting themselves with air and insulin. LL was doing it.
At the same time as they removed her they downgraded the ward to stop taking sick babies, it makes sense then that there have been no deaths
@@WilliamBonneyPodcast but if you look at the fatalities per year leading up to the 12 months in question, the numbers were in keeping with the national average. One death in 2010. Three deaths in 2011. Two in 2012. Two in 2013.. sick babies were cared for during those years.
I understand what you are saying but LL final 12 months were jaw dropping w/ regards to a surge in numbers. Even with an extra baby to care for or being understaffed here and there... That's NO excuse for hearts to be stopping.
@@reeva5735exactly 👍
she definitely done it and even wrote it herself SHE IS TRULY EVIL AND I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE THINK SHES INNOCENT OMG !!!!!!!
@@caz8929 what is odd that if she does it and then writes about it knowing it is a confession note. they why go to court and say your innocent. this is a very inteligent person; not some dum school drop out. That is what doesn't make sense. Think about it.
I agree that this *may* be a miscarriage of justice, but to say she doesn't look like a serial killer is the problem with people like you and those who think like you. There are possibly thousands of people who fit her image who have gotten away with the most heinous crimes because of this viewpoint. Conversely, there are possibly thousands of people who are innocent, languashing in prison because they present outside of what you and others perceive to be 'social norms'.
Factual
Well said.
Most killers don’t look like her. And those that do often show troubling signs when you dig into their history or personal. Not always, but often. So yes, her look, conduct, character, personal relations and home life are all viable evidence and help paint a picture of her.
@@Dudjdhsbsnshh I'm struggling to understand your point and how it relates to my comment.
@@RachelLondonmaybe read again? You are suggested how people look and act is irrelevant when accessing guilt, which clearly isn’t the case.
There are not enough channels that are talking about this. Thanks for this 🙏🏼
Anyone who thinks it really was a fair trial really has not looked into it very deeply.
Everyone is a little bit crazy, as u mentioned regarding the paper she took home. Beeing a bit crazy and looking people up online does not make somone a murderer. I was in a high pase high stress job with lots of notes and paperwork going hear and there and several times a week I ended bringing papers home with me just because of the stressful job I had. I just forgot to leave them as we had aprons with pockets on as work wear. Simmilair as nurse with pojets on her uniform. I too like to look up people, just from curiosity, doesn't make me a killer and I feel those things have been spun out of control in Lucys case. Not saying she is or isn't guilty, just that the "evidence" is quite thin
It is but she did look up the families many many times. Little odd
@@fourleaf8055 hardly proof that she murdered anyone though
@@holycannoli64 but why would she look up only the people who had babies that passed away
@@Spaceghost5446 I honestly don't know where you're going with this. What are you saying?
She looked up people on Facebook. Isn't that what people do on Facebook?
What else is it for?
So people who look up other people on Facebook are murderers?
I am not seeing the intent of your question so I'm keeping an open mind as to what you are asking me.
@@Spaceghost5446 I agree it does not look good
I wouldn't let her look after my fish!
HAHA nice one! 👏
LOL!
I don’t suppose I would either .
I'm crying! 😂
I would let her, because it's not my fish.
At times like this all you can do is laugh or cry I prefer a laugh! I recon she would salt the water or something along those lines
I don't know either way but I do know the statistical evidence is shaky as I have experience with clusters and outliers.
I believe that Lucy is guilty, But I do acknowledge that the evidence against Letby is circumstantial, How ever unlikely it seems it is actually possible that she is innocent. She has a right to an appeal and if she is innocent I hope she can prove it.
Scapegoat. I want to see staffing spreadsheet for everyone present. Cleaners, cooks, EVERYONE. Also I'd like to see stock details for insuline with clear indications of sound recording.
She was doing a lot of overtme and worked nights where children die more of sudden death baby syndrome, so statistically it would seem that she was present more than anyone else when babies died because she was.
Well said 👏 statistically it’s a know fact that more people die at night than during the day.
This element points to the statistics argument. Ask yourself the chances of tossing a coin 7 times and getting heads with every toss?. The odds are a lot lower than you think; 128-1 it is not millions to 1. Plenty of proof out there highlighting the chances of this happening, including lottery winners. It is dangerous to convict on statistics. Lucia DeBerk in Holland is a good reference point where 'experts' using stats get it wrong.
I believe That's true more people die at night time - even Shakespeare describing the death of Sir John Falstaff
I was in a jury for over 4 months on the same case that involved torture and murder. One male was on trial in this particular case.
Other jurors were pressurizing the rest of us into giving a guilty verdict because they wanted to do some Christmas shopping and didn't want to prolong the trial.
This trial was also based on circumstantial evidence. It was also a retrial, because the previous jury couldn't reach a verdict. I have since found out through research, that there were actually 4 re trials altogether.
........in other words, a travesty and farce.
Very insightful and balanced. My own experience of doing night work (as Lucy mostly did) is, that your mind is in a different place as opposed to daytime, you cannot afford to wander onto your own fantasies (ie a serial killer thinking about who is next) you have to go into autopilot about the tasks you are expected to do otherwise you will make mistakes and even doze off. Likewise when you are coming to the end of the shift around 6-9 am you certainly don't want to create dramas or be involved in any, you just want to get home and sleep. The post-it notes I would suggest are just the stream of conscious ramblings (many of us have done this when facing an ordeal ) of someone tired (due to the night for day life) and alone and just has to dump all these anxieties onto paper as they rush around your mind like a river.
Good Morning William, Thank you for your video and insight on the ‘innocent hypothesis’ - you are amongst the VERY few content creators exploring this.
If we examine the diary and notes entries we note from both content and style of writing, Lucy demonstrates polar opposite personality traits. In her diary her notes are well written and the hand writing looks ‘normal’ however of the paper post it notes she comes across as someone who is mentally disturbed.
Will, you mention the child unit being downgraded to taking in less seriously ill babies - true but please remember in 2013, 2014, 2015, up till June 2016 it was not downgraded and the death rate was not high in the earlier prior to LUCY COMPLETING A MEDICAL COURSE ON CATHETERS AND COVERED AIR EMBOLISM RISKS. After two weeks of completing the course, the baby morality rates and ‘desaturation’ frequencies increased in the same high risk baby intensive care unit which had not seen this previous to Lucy completing her course.
On a personal side, those doubters out there launching a campaign, who would they trust in looking after their own baby - Lucy Letby OR the four Consultants who campaigned to bring awareness to what was going on in the baby unit? I know who I’d trust with the care of my baby.
There is a TH-cam video detailing the Police Investigation ‘Operation Hummingbird: The Investigation behind the conviction of Lucy Letby’
This video interviews all the key Police investigators in detail.
What the same doctors who placed tubes incorrectly or not writing the rashes down on the notes at the time only mentioned them in court. I think we should be looking closely at the doctors as well.
Nothing you cited constitutes compelling proof that she murdered anyone.
Thank you Andy & Holly,
There is always doubt on everything in life - nothing is absolute
But let’s consider carefully that the Consultants were bringing their concerns to hospital management. If they have an error in their own medical care practices, they wouldn’t be highlighting these issues to management.
Please think over how many ‘de-saturation’ of infant mortality was being recovered prior to June 2015.
When Lucy completed her course and returned to the intensive care unit, within two weeks the incidents soar.
Andy and Holly, would you be capable of writing those notes that Lucy wrote? I think not. Lucy is a highly disturbed person and a highly likeable person ‘nice Lucy’ as she was known in the intensive care unit.
The unfortunate victims were innocent premature babies. I am not 99% sure but 100% sure the team of investigating officers did their very best. I would have done likewise. Guys, we have to trust them in their work. Cheshire Police have release a video ‘Operation Hummingbird’ to demonstrate their professionalism and integrity in this case.
@@NA78666 you're 100 per cent sure that they did their best in investigating?
Well that's good enough for me. And it's good enough for the Guildford 4. And the Birmingham 6.
And David Sellu agrees with you too.
@@holycannoli64 Good Morning holycannoli64. I understand your reasoning. I can see where you are coming from.
There are some important things you, me and everyone else who is deeply hurt by this case ought to do.
1) view the Cheshire Police video that I have left a message in this video message section as a ‘stand alone message’ with only the link to the video.
2) Please note the life and times of those above named cases. The situation was different back then. I can name STEPHEN LAWRENCE as a Police miscarriage of justice too. BUT THE SITUATION HERE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (Intensive care unit) and the people here are different (Professional - Consultants, Registrars, Nurses).
Here you’ve got BOTH hospital consultants AND police reaching the same decision about Lucy Letby.
I have medical training and I understood EVERYTHING the Consultants said in their interviews.
3) THE TEST OF ALL TESTS - WOULD YOU ‘holycannoli64’ HOLD THE SAME OPINON IF YOUR BABY HAD BEEN A VICTIM?
I guess it’s easy huh to stand by the way side, not be involved in any part of the investigation, perhaps have no medical knowledge and cast doubt over the dedicated work done by all the professionals in order to bring Lucy Letby to justice.
So holycannoli64, ARE YOU SAYING EVEN THE PRESIDING JUDGE GOT IT WRONG TOO, BECAUSE IN HIS SENTENCING, EVERYONE KNEW WHAT MR JUSTICE JAMES GOSS THOUGHTS WERE ON LUCY LETBY
Yeah holycannoli64, we are all wrong and you naming completely different events of different times and without any professional records (here we had medical records), miscarriage of justice from the 1970s and 1980s are right.
On the basis of completely different cases of different timelines, you display the audacity of doubting the work of the nurses, the consultants, the investigating police teams over many years, the prosecuting team and finally JUDGE MR JUSTICE JAMES GOSS - they have all got it wrong but keyboard warrior holycannoli64 has ‘doubts’ yes by a person who has not had any part in this trial.
You are an embarrassment and I feel ashamed of even communicating with a complete idiot as you have shown yourself as here.
Also same happened in Italy & nurse was exonerated in 2021!
Letby had been advised to write her bad feelings down? Why was the jury not told this?More babies died year before Lucy Letby began working at that hospital??
Im not sure how we can ignore the spike of deaths followed by that spike disappearing the second she was removed from the ward? I do agree though that this is an extraordinary case and that she does not fit a lot of the social criteria of many serial killers.
Her being removed coincides with the wing being downgraded from neonatal, so there were many less sick babies. So that answers the downturn. There were also other unexplained deaths that she wasn't on shift for, so they didn't include those.
......someone trying to generate / massage the figures against Lucy perhaps ? What about the years BEFORE the 2015 / 2016 apparent spike - anyone looked closely there ? Lucy worked for several years on the same Unit prior to 2015 / 2016. Funny, no abnormal spike(s) seemed apparent then ?
Then we have SEPSIS.........
Also same happened in Italy & nurse was exonerated in 2021!
Letby had been advised to write her bad feelings down? Why was the jury not told this?
I would asume the medical notes lucy is described as taking home are actually the "handover" notes. At the start of each shift a nurse has a list of patients and the latest information their condtion is written and added to during shift. Its easy to leave in pocket at the end of a shift but usually youd throw it away. It would be extreamy difficult for a nurse to leave the ward with a patients actual medical notes as they are in a A4size file . These notes are viewed and documentation added on a continual basis during each shift by drs ,nurses,pharmacists physios etc. It would be noticed within minuites if they went missing and had lucy taken these home on a regular basis over the years it would have been picked up and been a major issue
You are not allowed to take medical notes home!! The reason for this is the fact that notes can be tampered or fabricated at home!! Why is a nurse taking confidential notes home??? This evidence alone compared to her co-workers shows guilty.
I've kept detailed carbon copies of patient notes for one year. We were the first doctors to describe dengue, decide relevant lab tests and treatment. But, yes I've kept absolute secrecy plus destroyed them once the notes on dengue was established. 😊
@@solapowsj25interesting. Im just getting over dengue after returning from Jamaica 2 weeks ago. They (hospital) said it was mild, headache was anything but!
The only thing that particulair thing shows her beeing guilty at is taking paperwork with her home. It doesn't proove why it was done. I know from personal experiance that bringing paperwork with me home from work happenes wether I like it or not, just because the stress of some professions makes you forget about it and you end up finding it in your pocket at home. It doesn't make me a killer and it doesn't proove anything.
this doesn't show she guilty at all
They were from what it sounds, report sheets, not actual notes. We kept these in the Medex, but idk if they handed them off to each other freely. You’d be surprised what nurses inadvertently take home after a long shift. Nothing illegal, but all kinds of stuff gets shoved in your pockets through the day.
Still not 100% convinced either way, but the point about her taking home hospital documents (handover sheets) could be interpreted in various ways.
Maybe she was also surprised by the increase in deaths and wanted to do her own research.
Maybe she suspected someone else could be causing harm.
Maybe she thought she would be accused/framed at a later date and wanted to retain proof of her innocence.
Unless there's a confession, how could we know for certain the reason?
How would you do research on handover sheets? I think they are not what you think they are, there is no valid reason why she would have these at home.
Lots of nurses say they take handover sheets home. Also, she had over 200, which makes it seem unlikely that it’s to do with trophies.
Maybe she was also surprised by the increase in deaths and wanted to do her own research: Oh come on Why would anyone want to do their own research
:Maybe she suspected someone else could be causing harm". Absolutely not, Then you would tell the police in order to stop babies dying, you would have a duty to do so..
"Maybe she thought she would be accused/framed at a later date and wanted to retain proof of her innocence". Nope
Unless there's a confession, how could we know for certain the reason? Guilty people do profess their innocence through fear, denial and simply being an evil person.
@@74griffo it is illegal....it's a big no-no... You cannot take patient identifiable information home. She would have known that, they were there for a reason.
@@terencebates6808 how can you even do research from a handover sheet... Good god.
this is insane! have they put a innocent women in jail and conspired to do it?
I believe they most definitely have. Remember what we lived through back in 2020/21. That was orchestrated by government and the media is essentially an arm of the government
No. The trail of dead infants suggests otherwise.....
Yes exactly
OK this is my view. The doctors complained
That didn't work
Letter of apology to Lucy. Doctors probably incensed. How to get own back? A look at work schedule Lucy in tomorrow night 6 pm At 5pm doctor interferes with baby. Result is on Lucy's shift and
baby need Resuscitation or dies.
I am ex Police.
When a person is arrested for a crime they usually deny it
BUT IF the Police arrest an innocent person,who also denies it! The Police think they are being fooled and it may go to trial. I have seen an innocent man go to prison this was.
NB He was exonerated later.
Not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt for my liking.
It certainly wasn’t what I would of called a fair trial, and for that reason I fully support Lucy’s appeal for a retrial.
Examples of Incompetence can clearly be seen right from the most senior of management.
So let’s hope they get it right next time.
There won't be a next time.
I wrote to my MP who is also a Barrister. He replied indicating the appeal coming up and not wishing to interfere.
I'd like to see her appeal it and see what the outcome is - simply because this case has shook my trust in even the most seemingly innocuous of human beings in this world, and my mind feels easier thinking that we can somehow identify, by sight, those who might be capable of such depravity, rather than the alternative, which is that anyone, anywhere, regardless of how ordinary, or caring they may appear, could possibly execute such acts.
And i know that the so-called experts tell us constantly that it isn't the case that people engaged in this level of criminality look like stereotypical monsters or offenders, that they're often very normal, often charming and seemingly thoughtful and kind.
That said, an appeal would most definitely traumatise the families of these babies more than they already are, and i wouldn't wish that for anyone. It is somebody's life at stake here also , though...and I've followed enough wrongful conviction cases to know that these miscarriages of justice do happen.
Right now, though, i do believe she did it. I think this trial was too big for mistakes to be made and i found the consultants involved to be credible and sincere in their concern and their knowledge of what and why this involved criminality.
Fyi, your voice is very soothing and easy to listen to and i think it's good that you're covering all angles of this..thanks for the great content .
I think this woman has been stitched up for multiple failings at the trust and specifically in that neonatal unit. The system cannot cope and the truth is people will
Die needlessly because the nhs is being decimated in my opinion deliberately. Nurse Recruitment will definitely drop now.
@@andyryan3756 exactly. Look at what happened to Dr bawa garba.
@@andyryan3756 I completely agree with you. Many of my fellow nurses are saying that none of us are safe from horrendous allegations whenever someone chooses. The aftermath of this case should make every nurse shudder
@@annazrelli4954 im sorry to sound like a tin foil hat wearing nut job here but i wouldn’t be surprised if this is all been set up to further the privatisation agenda.. or am I just wearing that hat to tight. I fee so sorry for those babies and there parents but I also Gee sorry for Lucy and her family and friends. I maybe wrong here but there have been other nurses who were prosecuted and there has not been this much public support for them
@@annazrelli4954I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Lucy's lettbys every move was scrutinized so much even down to her childhood bedroom! You'd be scared to breathe as a nurse noe
What does a serial killer look like? Rose West doesn't look like a serial killer but she is.
Also mentioning that the accused persons friends & parents stand by them is a bit pointless
Before accusing, let alone charging anyone with mass murder it is a good idea to actually re-examine the bodies. Especially bodies that had post mortems and were found to have died from natural causes.
I was gona comment this on your other video but been thinking about it for a few days, seen youd put another letby one up 😊 knowing that you have experience with the system and been around people in the system I for sure know what u mean that she doesn't look like the type it's that and a whole lot of other things. She's said she's the victim of a conspiracy which I kind of believe. It could be possible someone else is to blame and framed Lucy hence why the baby's stopped dying when she'd been taken off the ward. The notes I think were her in a really dark place not a confession! I've not seen everything to do with the case but I think she's innocent. She seemed sentimental that's why she was looking up the parents because she cared not because she'd killed the babies. I've also been done for something I didn't do and even tho minor its followed me my whole adult life so know how they can get it wrong. It seems like a mob mentality!!
She wasn't convicted bc ''there wasn't enough evidence''....it wasn't that there was NO evidence, just not enuf to convict.
If she took the hospital paperwork for a reason,she would have had that as her defence. her defence to taking them home (against hospital data protection) ''they came home with me'' ''I collect paper'' -257mediacl notes which were meant to go in the hospital shredder, (on one occasion she waited after shift, stayed late, and stole another nurses handover sheet out of the confidential bin, and took it home) - they had her in court about it, cuz the time she clocked out the hospital-much later than the end of her shift(plus her fav Doctor txt her and said, oh, how come you stayed late?), and the other nurse said i put that in the bin, the cops found it at her house. And the reason she took it, is to Facebook search the Babies parents, AND they had a really hard name to spell, so she needed it steal it. When asked about it in court, she had a moment of ''mask slip'', as she was asked about that parent, and he said, ''Really hard spelling is that name, isn't it''. and she said ''yea'', and he said ''yes, very hard'', and she snapped ''YES!'' cuz she had clocked what he was getting at. he then said, ''u searched them on ur facebook, didn't you''......(yes~she said) and then he said, ''spell it for me?'' and she said ''i cnt.'' And he said, ''Try''.....and she tried but cudnt, and then she got all flustered, and asked for a break. But the court knew that the only way she was able to search facebook, for such a hard unique spelling, of the dead babies family name, was that she stayed late at wrk, and stole it out the confidential shredder box. That is not normal. Trophies that call it.
I don't see how that proves she murdered those babies, it proves she took the note and Facebook searched but that could be for several reasons, Humans are complicated, it could be guilt that she couldn't prevent death and dread seeing the parents so wanted to see them online first to visualise how she will interact with them, it could be to put names to faces so she could acknowledge them or avoid them it could be to send a message on Facebook to them it could be a trophy from a woman who murdered the babies but this is all speculation.
What I will say is I suffer from mental health issues and I know in a situation where something serious has happened I would probably look guilty because I do have strange behaviour due to OCD, I wouldn't have done anything wrong but because of my OCD I would have to prove it to myself which would lead me to do strange things, I can't help it I know it's not logical but I still react emotionally.
If I was taking notes home and searching for parents on Facebook it would be because I'm piecing parts of my memory together of events and using visual and text aids to prove to myself I didn't do it even though I already know I didn't I would still do this because of my OCD.
Then in court when asked why I took notes and Facebook searched I would be nervous saying to prove to myself I didn't do it because that shows doubt and people don't understand OCD. I would likely be very sketchy around the questioning which will make me look even more guilty.
Do you see how complicated we humans are?
This is speculation but this could have happened to Lucy, she could have developed an OCD fearing mistakes she made cost lives but her memory is blurred and she needs confirmation she didn't do anything wrong, She may even struggle to remember the baby by physical identity or have doubts so draws on memory of the parents of those babies to piece them together using visual aids of the parents on Facebook and hoping for pictures of the baby too. If she was already being suspected she could easily develop OCD and go down this route even if she was confident she never made mistakes or harmed babies intentionally or unintentionally. If this theory was true would also explain the confession notes she did because that's OCD trate, I don't have it this far but many people with OCD develop false memories she may of believed she did do it or again needing to confirm she didn't do it and write it down to confront it, if these notes was done when she was under alot of scrutiny it's very easy for the mind to go down this path even if she had no history of mental illness before.
Now im not saying this happened I have no idea what happened im just showing how easily we can all project and speculate out our views and be very convincing, it's dangerous.
I'm following the channel of Jon "Crime Scene 2 Courtroom" ......... and the channel is brilliant !!!
.
Wow i'm perplexed and addicted to the narration !!!
.
I feel that we can't see "the elephant in the room" 😞
Several negligence cases are pending relating to this neonatal unit, involving Drs working there during this time.
This conviction at best is very unsafe, the Judge addressed the Jury as to the significant amount of circumstantial evidence involved in this case, this is unusual
H G Tudor covers this case brilliantly
and what are his qualifications for doing so ?
@KingBee24 probably more than yours.
I'm not claiming any qualifications. This guy has self published a pile of books about narcissism and has a TH-cam channel. Presumably, he's tackling this from the angle of 'she's a narcissist' as that is his claimed area of expertise. It doesn't qualify him to analyse this case any more than you or I. @@Charlie3vans
@@Charlie3vans 👊 owned it lol
@@KingBee24As an ultra narcissist and psychopath himself, he can readily spot anyone who has the same traits. His work is painstakingly accurate!
I believe Lucy is innocent, and I also think she should have a real trial because all the evidence is circumstantial
At 14.17 you suggest she might be a ‘Columbo-style’ nurse trying to find a pattern in the deaths of those little babies - I said exactly that in a couple of posts! I’m so glad you said that too!!!
She won't be getting out. Period.
Nor should she.
@@melgrant7404 Me neither. I paid mine off years ago.
The notes Lucy had were handover sheets - nurses are sometimes encouraged to keep handover sheets which could help them to support their actions on the wards if it is called into question. I hope they exonerate her.
Baby died at same hospital as Drs put tube into stomach instead of windpipe but that was deemed accidental?
Statistics given to jury have been shown to be utterly wrong??
Do this man a favor and subscribe, he deserves it. Very well spoken!
If she didn’t do it, she doesn’t help herself because she doesn’t speak up. Remember the English nanny Louise Woodward in America who was accused of killing two doctors baby. She apparently acted strangely,but when she was convicted she cried out and said she didn’t do it. Later medical evidence showed she didn’t.
she did speak up - she denied it. Not sure what more you wanted. When I see footage of her in custody etc i see someone who just appears shell shocked as the weight of the system comes down on top of her. And her action to not attend the sentencing seems more in line with an innocent person than the psycho narcissist she is said to be. Imagine being innocent and then having to sit through your sentence and the parents of the babies telling you how you have destroyed their lives. Dont think Id want to attend either.
1) CCTV.
2) Two keys turned at the same time 20 ft apart for entry into the entire ward.
3) No one allowed alone inside the ward at any time.
it might help. Police wear cameras perhaps certain situations in hospital might warrant body cams?
Did Ted Bundy look like a serial killer. You tell me what does a serial killer look like. Even her male best friend who visits her in prison, says she is damaged and in his opinion she is guilty.
How much have you read about the case? She was incredibly manipulative.
Really? In what way. I've not heard anything like that
He clearly hasn't heard all the word-for-word court transcripts from Crime Scene to courtroom. It's awful to see uninformed randomers making opinion pieces on such an incredibly sensitive topic such as the murder of multiple babies. My heart goes out to the victims families.
It is such a problematic, thorny issue....
I still think she’s guilty… all the evidence that they do have completely points at her …plus the parents of the babies observations
Yes....
If LL is guilty beyond reasonable doubt, why is there doubt? Overwhelming doubt?
LL could be the fall guy for someone other individual, or for the Hospital she was employed by.
I'm so glad i'm not the only one that thinks Lucy is innocent as i knew from the
beginning! Only way i would believe she is guilty is if she admits it
Or if they find some damning evidence
She did. One note said "I did this".
you can't say you 'knew', you can say you had 'doubts'. The only person that 'knows' for certain is Letby.
The more I read and listen to people who are experts in the field, the more I can see that this is a massive miscarriage of justice.
She’s as guilty as sin, all the evidence and circumstances of the case point to her. The letters she wrote only point to her as the source of the death of those innocent babies.
Explain yourself please?
@@samsung63 If you were perfectly innocent, and squeaky clean, why would you write "I did this" and "I am evil"on a notes in your house? Why would you deny under oath that you didn't know what an air embolus was, immediately before the prosecution produced the evidence of you successfully passing an exam to prevent them in hospital, which proved you clearly lied in court. That alone merits a custodial sentence.....
This case is perplexing. More questions then answers. I an not convinced she is guilty. I can't stop thinking about her mental state now. Locked up for life if you never did anything wrong is more then hell
Thank you for the courage to put this up.
the Deburgh case is indeed similar. the reason i am opposed to the death penalty : mistakes can be made, and there can be no proper redress for an inaccurate
state-sanctioned murder.
I'm keeping an open mind on this but it seems that people are putting too much emphasis on innocuous things - for example the handover notes. Nurse uniforms have pockets, handover at beginning of a busy shift, notes go in pocket along with whatever else they pick up through the shift, go home at end of shift and find the notes there when they go to do the laundry. Not ideal but it happens way more often than most of us would think, hopefully they go in the shredder on the next shift but it is totally plausible that they could pile up and remain on the to do list indefinitely. The Facebook searches - I bet there are way more of us guilty of a good old facebook stalking session than we'd like to admit. The number of deaths is hugely significant as Lucy being on shift at every single collapse is constantly parroted in the media when in reality it looks like they filtered the list down significantly to discount the ones she could not be linked to. The friends and family sticking by her is not really a huge shock whether she did it or not, I don't think many people would manage to accept that someone they knew and loved would be capable of doing something so unthinkable
She didn’t have an automatic right to appeal. No such thing as right to appeal in UK. She was refused permission to appeal
this ‘trial’ of Lucy Letby has all of the evidentiary integrity of a medieval witch hunt.
The police did a thorough 3 year investigation but something doesn't feel right. I'm sure if she's innocent then justice should be done . Feel for the families of the babies and for letby's parents and for the people who believe she's innocent.
Would you let her baby sit your kids, grandkids
@@channelwright9137 Yes of course but I'm not so sure I'd be happy with the consultants at CoCH looking after my children.
The latest trial is very disturbing (Baby K death). The judge directed the jury to consider that Letby has already been found guilty of similar crimes and thus this was acceptable to utilise this information in the deliberation of this case. Talk about furnishing an outcome. This was certainly not a fair trial.
Everyone said Rose West looked and acted like a sweet lady
Rose west looks like a wrongen
No they didn't. Rose West was known for her awful temper. I'd recommend watching 'Appropriate Adult' which covers Fred's and Rose's capture and arrest. She is a proper nasty witch.
I'm pretty sure they said she was a crazy, demonic nimphomaniac 😆
Confirmation bias is a problem, especially where there is no clear evidence of any murder. Just a tragic string of deaths, probably a result of understaffing, under training and hospital acquired infections.
Thanks William.
Your video is definitely food for thought.
I often see people on social media crying out for the return of capital punishment in the UK, and this seems like a perfect example of why it was abolished in the first place. Bit off topic I know, sorry. Personally I do have faith in this conviction, the jury felt confident 'beyond reasonable doubt' so it's going to be very odd if it turns out if wasn't Letby.
Anyway! hope you have a great week.
The Jury apparently were not, as a whole, cognisant of Medical matters and their expertise (and subsequent decision) appears to rest solely, or very largely, with the emotional content of the trial. Several Jurors wished for "time out" at one point in the trial, and i believe the Judge, Mr. Justice Goss, acceeded to this request. That should have been investigated more.........i remember one Juror retired from the case on personal grounds - whether that reason would have any connection with the tenor of the case we will probably never know........were they unhappy to proceed, knowing, or feeling, that Lucy's conviction was on shaky ground, and therefore, in doubt........questions, and more questions.....
if she was innocent she would have turned up to her sentenceing and would have been hysterical in tears and screams saying i did not do this after been giveing a life term for each child but no she stayed away guilty as sin and knows she has been caught,,her actions are an admission in itself,,
The verdicts were given in stages. She was present for the first few verdicts and she WAS in a severely distressed state. She didn’t appear for the latter verdicts or the sentence. Perhaps that was her way of disputing the verdicts?
@17:11; You are correct, that is the tactics they use. How extreme are they with though? If they found evidence that completely exonerates her and proves she's innocent, that evidence would be discarded, would it?
They need to change the law, this practice is insane.
They're are supposed to be the 'good guys'.
Thank you very much for your video. We must be sure she did this and she is in the right place. The department was downgraded, because it was not well organised and the nurses incl Lucy Letby had to do extra shifts all the time. And that is wrong when you look after tiny and very sick babies.
Well said and so true
Yes serious workload issues and tiredness can cause errors even in very well trained professionals.
Don't want to think it's wrong but there's nothing concrete. I dno how she's been sent down for a whole life term for this on circumstantial evidence
@@ZoeW335 it’s a complete coverup, she was used as a patsy to divert attention away from what has been really going on. Those kids were not murdered they died through gross mismanagement by the doctors i suspect. I’m not saying the management are innocent but have you noticed that only the chief nurse has been suspended. I think her name is Alison Kelly or something like that. I pray that Lucy gets a retrial because that poor woman is going to go insane if she is not mentally strong. She was sacrificed to save the trust and by proxy the government yet another hospital scandal
@@andyryan3756 yeah am not great with words but I know when something doesn't feel right and this doesn't feel right at all. They're also picking at the way she responds to things. I am autistic, some people don't respond in ways that suit everyone and people are focussing on that. That proves nothing either. I'm not saying she is autistic but I'm seeing a lot of autistic behaviours here (yes some of us do socialise and are successful) collecting random things, loneliness, obsession, perfectionism. Sorry to anyone who doesn't like this im only seeing what is there
Until she confesses herself I won't believe it. Even if they find more evidence it wouldn't surprise me if it was planted
Im terrified to say this offline but I'm only going on what's there
I am a retired nurse and midwife and I believe that she is most definitely guilty.
I agree also LL IS GUILTY---- THE FOCUS HAD TO BE ALL ABOUT LUCY GETTING ATTENTION--- SHALLOW MINDED INDEED --- CHILDISH BEHAVOUIR--- BEEN AN ONLY CHILD BOUGHT UP GETTING HER OWN WAY---- HER MIND SET IS WAY OFF FRM WORKING IN KIND OF HOSPITAL ----
If lucy was innocent then why didn't she scream and shout for the crimes she didn't do.!!We have not seen or heard all the evidence for this trial ,I worked in a hospital on a ward and we wasn't allowed to take any notes or papers on the patients,so I find that weird they were under her bed in a bag.!! We are never going to know the full details but I still think she is guilty.
I wouldn't. Dengue was new and many doctors were attacked, even killed because we didn't know the disease first. Screaming won't help. 😮
Who knows how one would react under this awful experience, if she is innocent. Some people freeze up under extreme circumstances. I also have a suspicion she might be autistic. These types are renound for honesty. If anything
She just throw stuff under beds, she is always at the hospital doing the shifts no one wants. Delia Morris
Why was her house full of so much hospital paperwork and her diaries saying she did it all?