Is Serve and Volley Still Effective at USTA 4.5?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2023
- Smoker was a Division 1 baseball player and picked up tennis at the age of 40. He is 47-30 as a USTA 4.5 player in 2022 and 2021 (white shirt). He plays singles, dubs, and mixed. As a 4.5 player, Smoker's record is 191-106 since 2014.
TennisTroll won 58 singles matches for a Division 1 university from 1999-2003. He is currently a USTA 4.5 player and currently UTR is 7+. His goal is to be a UTR 6 by end of year (started as a UTR 9 in 2022).
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#TennisTroll - กีฬา
Anyone else notice the only time Smoker doesn’t SV was the first point of match? : ]
I thought another time on 1st serve he didn’t but missed the serve. Then SV on 2nd serve. But maybe wrong.
@@Michael-Boyer second serve is better to do SV. I think troll should do it always, because he has the right serve to do it and he has a great net game
@@alvaromena7548 not what I’m talking about but no way. The strength of the serve is the main reason for SV success. The pros when they SV are doing it much more on 1st than 2nd naturally. It’s a risky play even with a great serve and net game. Smoker does have a solid serve and net game but he almost has to live at net based on his movement.
@@Michael-Boyer every time you go to the net you should make a shot that isn’t fast enough, so you can cover the net. It’s the same type of serve that you need to do when you do a second serve from the baseline
@@alvaromena7548 not sure what you’re saying. But watch the pros or any level. If you’re coming to net off weaker shots, you’re losing a much higher % of points. SV % definitely goes down considerably from 1st to 2nd serves.
Smoker’s overheads were great. Low effort, great accuracy, and didn’t miss.
SV definitely at a high-level. This video a great show case of what not to do. You can't force the point by simply running up when your serve doesn't hurt your opponent. This is more in essence serve and run up and let see
He won though
He also doesn't split step at all
At 4.5 level the combination of serve and volley plus a lot of drop shots and slice can be very effective. Most guys want to bang away with heavy topspin so the slicer and S&V provide a big change up and people have a hard time adjusting.
When you're a serve and volley guy but cant serve or volley LOL
Great to see you back TT after a small hiatus.
Smoker made a huge comeback.
Cheers!
M
What a tough opponent! There are definite holes in his game, but true serve-and-volley is so rare nowadays that it's almost impossible to prepare for it (and he really started making it work to perfection midway through the second set), plus that slap forehand is really hard to gauge. Hope Smoker hangs around to play some of the other regulars, would love to see him vs. the Boss!
Weird seeing that SV game is ancient. I just started picking up the game in my 40s and it feels like such a natural approach. Maybe why it has come and gone but now. Anybody in Myrtle Beach area looking for a game hit me up!
There’s a video of Smoker vs Boss from about a year ago. Boss got smoked. I’ll show myself out.
@@kjtennis1254 I don’t know the backstory, is he actually a chain smoker?
@@mfzoom5401 I don’t know if he smokes or not.
Smoker clearly serves inside the court 🤣 - great game!
To me it looks like he hit the ball before he stepped into the court.
Yeah, it’s more like he doesn’t do ALL the time but it’s too damn close and you can see that several times he steps into the court before hitting the ball.
@@VeioPescador you can also hear his front foot sliding into the court before he makes contact
I paused at 0:07 to watch that ad side serve frame by frame - yikes. His left foot is a full 8 or 10 inches inside the baseline during the racquet drop. 😮
@@EP-yc2gu yeah, you can easily hear the footstep before the racket hitting the ball as well.
Nice match guys! Fun to watch the contrasting styles
Yes. But troll should get into the net too
Crazy notion, but I was always taught that if you're gonna come to net, you need to hit one of these things called a "decent approach shot".
Troll on fire with the groundies!!!
Dang that was interesting. I'm surprised he stayed with the serve and volley after how the first set went...but I think as the match went on it gets harder to keep hitting quality passing shots when you're tired. Gotta credit Smoker for sticking to his guns, it paid down the stretch. Dude also didn't miss overheads which is so much easier said than done.
However, the foot fault is an automatic disqualifier.
I like Smoker's sportsmanship spirit, you could tell he didn't want to win on a net call during the tiebreak.
Foot faults are pretty bad from smoker. Considering that serving is a big part of his game he needs to fix it. Surprised to see this from a 4.5.
Great match guys 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻..
Welcome back TennisTroll and Smoker..👍🏻
Serve and Volley is not a dieing art..😎
It's an effective skill to have in your Tennis 🎾 arsenal.. 👍🏻
(Gives Variety in your game).. 👌
Tennis.. Fun and Exciting as ever..👍🏻
(Pete Sampras
Pat Cash
Patrick Rafter
Roger Federer
Arthur Ashe
Etc)...
👍🏻 👍🏻 😃 😁 😎
This might be one of the first actually really good 4.5 serve and volleyers I have seen
Love Smoker’s game. Definitely shows that S&V is still viable and you don’t even need a big game to do it.
That being said, Smoker does have a nasty serve with a quick motion a la Roscoe Tanner and some biting slice. And he mixes up his placement well.
I think he could probably shade the court a bit better when coming in depending on where he served. Looked like the vast majority of split steps were happening right on the T, which left him turned sideways a few times.
I think he could also benefit from occasionally staying back. Basically mixing it in as change of pace like a normal baseline would do with S&V.
I play a lot of serve and volley and I feel like when I stay back and rally my opponent is so tense and ready to attempt a pass, they tighten up and start spraying balls.
Awesome match on both ends!
I tried to serve and volley during casual points last night (stayed back on serve during my league doubles match though!!). And is it just me, or every time I go forward, the return is down the line for a pass, and every time I stay back, it's a soft floater down the middle? No? Just me then.
Smoker is like me…just go for it no matter what happens!
Inspiring match! You don't need to be perfect for serve and volley, there will be some passing shots. But it can also be a very quick win.
took him a while to get the timing on his volleys right but after that he killed it
4:07 nice
I want to learn Smoker's funky forehand. it is so deceiving.
Great match! Love watching serve volley style. Plus TT is always solid. Also is Smoker foot faulting a lot or that just me?
He’s not foot faulting
@@tennisone6376 he definitely is!!! He is a foot faulting machine
The pressure he put on you finally paid dividends for him in the second set and tiebreaker! Even so, he needed plenty of nice volleys to offset you hitting a ton of winners! Smoker has some real skills, but seems just a bit too loosey-goosey. That being said, it's probably also his super-power... LOL
The match could have gone either way, honestly, on any given day...
Very entertaining style to watch. Way to stick to his guns even though he got baggled first set.
So pickleball lines are everywhere! 😂
Been awhile, Smoker might want to try a different strain....it does help.
Really good match. TT was on fire in the first set. Smoker was having to hit too many half volleys at his feet. He should come to the net only on his best servers and deep groundstrokes, Smoker won because TT's level dropped a bit. Both solid players.
I really like Smoker's game style!!! He just needs to tighten up on his volley skills more. I want to see more of him playing- this was great!
I like to see him and MEP play in future.
Nice match thanks for sharing
Better than Pickleball? : ]
@@TennisTrollChannel Yes loved watching smoker come to the net .and not losing the point because he was in the damn "kitchen"
Easier said than done.. but you can't be so off balance using serve and volley. I noticed the issue begins immediately when the feet land off of the service motion. Also, I would try to be less predictable and not serve and volley every point.. unless you're Pete Sampras.
Nice match. Thought troll would run away with it but other guy was a fighter.
old school S&V 🤘
Probably works even better in doubles?
Where's the full MEP-MFP match?
It's been 3 months, is it still uploading? :D
Funny : ] I think the highlights are sufficient for now.
I think Serve. & Volley definitely can be effective at this level... IF you have a good serve. First thing that struct me was that Smoker's serve was fairly average or maybe even below the 4.5 level. No big kickers.. speed was not too fast. I was expecting a guy with a bomb first serve and nasty kicking second. If you want to S&V a big kicker is a must... you need that time to get to the net and crazy ball spin to throw off your opponent's return. So the problem is guys like TT end up hitting alot of great returns off his serve and usually pass him, etc. Smoker does a good job given the serve he has, but if he really worked on it.. (put his legs into it more / add more spin/speed). then he'd be much tougher.
There's some pretty big foot faults in this one. Just pause it at 0:48 for one example.
I feel like the Smoker guy foot faulted 90% of the times.
At about 9:11 into the video, "That is so bad." YES it was.
Wow! That is the lowest toss I've ever seen! I'm surprised he doesn't serve into the net more often
Smoker vs MEP - who says no? Aside from smoker…
It's happened twice in USTA. Smoker won 6-7, 6-3, 6-1 in 2019 and I won 4-6, 6-4, 7-6 in 2021. Both were long hot matches in mid July.
We discussed in past- believe both are willing so shall see.
Smoker got a Federer game
SV is very effective at any level. The real question is should you do it every time, should you do it against an opponent that has proven to hit consistent winners off your serve. Is your serve effective against the returner, etc. I believe Smoker has a great SV, the problem is if you do it every time its easy to predict and expect and someone with tennis troll skills can counter him easy if Smoker is predictable. Smoker has a much better chance serving more into the body or waiting for a good serve to go in then run in for the volley. If the serve is not enough to make a difficult shot Smoker will get smoked as you seen in the first set. Second set, TT stopped hitting cross court. Played it safe and hit it directly back to Smoker at the net. Not sure why Troll didnt continue his cross court winners, unless the serves got more difficult? Overall, both great players, Both players just has to be flexible with his game plan. If it's not working, got to figure out quickly and change your game plan. Good example of one player continuing to do the same SV even thought he got beat 6-0. The baserliner instead of doing what he did to win the prior game changed his game plan and lost. I guess its easier to look back and realize what was happening vs. during the game.
I would love to watch Smoker play against MEP. Just to see how someone with a good net game fares against MEP.
We are planning to have them play when it gets a little cooler (phones are currently overheating). Will say, they have played several times in league matches and it’s always a close match.
Smoker seems to step into the court before contacting the ball. Lots of foot faults.
Damn where the troll been?
Suggestion for the rematch - dont lob.
Is it me or I see SM doing foot faults?
I get the SV game, I play it myself for the most part, but Smoker seems to give up on way too many balls he could play.
Imo just cuz you S&V doesn’t mean you need to do it on every point. Theres no adaptation to your opponent.
Smoker just needs some footwork and he could be a menace at the net. Split stepping and a decent step with the proper foot would go a mile for him - he's running through his volleys. TT, you just need to loosen your shoulder and arm on that serve and you will get so much more power for less effort. Looked like a fun, competitive match. Cheers to ya both.
Or do serve and volley
This may be the worst footwork I’ve seen on the channel. He’s got hand skills though. The thing is he’s gotten away with it for so long that it’s nearly impossible for him to change now. Thanks Troll for posting.
Sv would me more effective if he hit targets better on first serves and stopped waddling in on crap second serves.
Is SM making foot fault?? 😌
Smoker has a nice easy game. You could play that style of tennis all day. Just let your hands do all the work.
To play S&V, you need athleticism and quickness in addition to skill. If you are not quick then you have to have a big serve. Look at the best S&V pros like Edberg, Rafter, Sampras, Becker. They all possess either athleticism or power or both (like Sampras). At rec level, unless you're significantly more athletic or powerful, S&V is suicide.
Rublev/Medvedev would kill for Smoker's net-game lol.
Felt like the match turned around when Smoker started incorporating more body serves.
Wow did not see that coming after the 1st set.That was not your best match Tennis Troll I know that.But you should have made him stay in the points longer with moon balls deep top spin .And on your returns cut off his angles on his serves. But he surprised you and me in the tie breaker.Rematch
BRB buying a carton of cigs and hopefully I can find my dad
wtf are all these foot faults lmao
nobody cares
Until you're a realistic 5.0, your primary focus should be physical fitness in relation to your weight. Everything else is an avid tennis player mirage.
so true, i realised that a long time ago, hence why now i only play doubles. Singles u need to be super fit & i used to lose most of my matches, mainly just down to fitness, nothing else.
@@kw2142 I've lost more due to fitness in my tennis history than anything else. It exposes you instantly and magnifies your weak spots. Until I got my fitness in order, it was impossible to determine what I needed to work on.
Smoker foot faults on literally every serve LOL
Foot fault!
troll, u are a UTR 7+, but your year-end goal is UTR 6? something is wrong here i can feel it lol
Correct. Think my latest utr is 7.32. I’ve managed to go 4-1 yet drop my UTR from 9.20 to 7.32 : ]
I'll just say it... if you slow it down to 1/4 speed, smoker has alot of foot faults. Hate me all you want, but see it for yourselves
Troll, the dude basically played the same the 2nd and tiebreak set as the first. Why did you go away from a winning formula. You had such great topspin returns that were dipping at his feet. You have to be prepared that the only shot he has left is just to touch a half volley drop shot and that's all he did. Once you hit your shot, understand that he'll do that and you'll need to hit a shorter ball. I'm surprised you lost this seeing you destroy him in the first set. Just rematch him and gameplan the corrections.
Smoker picked up his game in the second set. He made some adjustments that made me pop up the ball just a bit more and he took advantage of that as you said.
Bro thinks he's Stefan Edburg 😂
Troll I think you lost some mental power by the end of the second set. Yes, when Smoker opens 5-3 after losing the first set 0-6, it might have been frustrating, but you could have turned it back. Also, there was a game Smoker didnt deserved to win because you counted wrongly. So after the second set, overall, you still have played a better match than your opponent. So maybe it was time to have regrouped for the tie break because you surely was the better player. Howevewer I understand that sometimes fatigue and metal tiredness and frustration can lead to losing the focus at the end of the match. But looking at the footage sometimes it appeared that you simply gave up the points too quickly at the super tie break.
lots of foot foul
TT, you just got quite tired on the 2nd set.
Smoker executed better in my opinion.
Foot fault much? LOL.
Smoker needs to change his name to Foot Faulter
Yeah, you can hear the sound of his foot stepping on the court before hitting the ball.
perhaps show someone who is 5"7 then we talk
Lol these guys are definitely not 4.5 wtf. A 4.5 will not do a foot fault every single time
Actually they do. I see lots of 4.5s and even 5.0s foot fault regularly. A lot of people just don’t care if they do it. With no officials, there’s nobody to stop players from doing it.
I dont think any players know if they are or are. It unless someone tells them. They arent looking down at their feet when hitting a serve.
@@TennisTrollChannel yea, maybe partially. But I know some do and don’t care. I feel like it’d be hard not to know you’re moving your feet into the court before making contact though. But I think it’s personality partially too-some people just lack self awareness.
Well the short answer is tennis needs to get rid of these giant fake artificial rackets and strings first then you will see the actual game of tennis come back. he has the right idea but he committed a lot of unforced errors in the first set and made some mistakes by coming in at the wrong time. His opponent made errors that allowed the s/v to win but these rackets are so fake and they are giving a false impression.
i do agree, tennis 30yrs ago was better in many ways
@@kw2142 very much so. It was an art form. A chess match. It had intrigue with all the personalities. It possessed charisma. It was a Broadway show. Now it is void of all of that. It’s like artificial intelligence took over. Tennis was never created for speed. Speed kills the game. It’s not a giant football baseball stadium or golf course. It is a mere 82 feet. They took the element away that made it interesting.
I agree with this. I think poly strings (which I use) should be illegal.
tennis troll ahaha
TennisTroll i have tip
Lean IN to your groundstrokes and your serve
You are not transfering your body weight into you shots, so your missing out on a lot of power!
It’s funny how much worse people look on video.
smoker record should be 0-297 cus he foot faults every serve
I think he’s played more than 297 matches : ]
Not sure what match you watched - he was fine and even gave himself extra room on numerous occasions.
@@300andDeadStraight if you pause at the point of contact and use the < > arrows to scrub the frames, his front foot is clearly touching the ground. giving him an advantage on the serve and an edge as a serve and volleyer
@@300andDeadStraight watch is sl mo. he is footfaulting galore
@@famikazi It's close but doesn't warrant a footfault in casual play. This isn't the finals of the US open vs Kim Clijsters.
Foot fault heaven