i learnt something about parallel caps and voltage rating of caps today. Thanks. i usually buy 250V caps or lower due to cost and size not knowing that it could affect the sound.
I've had these same speakers about 8 years. Listen to them daily - I am very satisfied. High quality. They will surprise you given the right amplification pairing, how much of a sound stage they will put out, with impressive bass. It took me a while to get the right combination, but once I had it dialed in they are really nice. Vinyl sounds great on here too. I am using Luxman R-117 to drive them.
Great video for the people who say Danny only likes his stuff. Remember, people send stuff they want to fix. The good stuff tends to be enjoyed and not messed with.
Yep, agreed. Plus, many of the speakers he gets in to improve are usually on the relatively inexpensive side too, and so the manufacturers of those relatively cheaper speakers are ALWAYS having to cut corners to make them to a price point, so for the mass majority of speakers he gets in, there is usually a HUGE margin for significant improvement, especially within the crossover network itself, because THAT is the most common part of pretty much ANY "budget friendly" speaker, that gets compromised first and foremost, partly because truly Great quality parts are indeed quite expensive, AND because the crossover network of a speaker is usually never seen by the consumer because it's totally enclosed in the box, plus it's ALSO the least well understood and usually the most complex part of a speaker, so unless you REALLY know a good bit about speakers, then that is the place that manufacturers can most easily get away with using cheap quality parts, because most people don't even know what they're looking at if they ever actually DO see one, OR what is good and bad about a specific design, so potentially the MOST cost savings combined with the misunderstandings of AND the "out of sight, out of mind" aspect, is why most speaker companies cut corners in their crossovers... Which then in turn, leaves the MOST significant sound quality improvements to be able to be made by Danny. If a speaker TRULY DOES actually have REALLY Great quality parts in its crossover network, and the box and drivers are also well designed, like many/most MUCH higher end speakers more oftentimes are, then they are ALREADY making whoever buys them happy for the most part, and that's why Danny usually doesn't see too many TRULY awesome speakers in for upgrades, because those higher end speakers more oftentimes don't need to be changed much, if even at all.
I have used the Aurum Cantus G2Si tweeter in my main Quintetta speakers since 2004. i still thoroughly enjoy them, they sound great. Ribbons sound so airy and effortless.
I follow a lot of audio related utube channels and GR Research is absolutely my favorite! Danny has forgot more than 99% of others know. Your passion and attention to details is unparalleled! Would love to see you and Jay from Jay's Audio Lab collaborate on something, that would be epic! Keep up the great content.😊
Jay is anti diy that's the problem. I've also meet him and I'm a huge promotion for gr research. Danny take a look at my recent video nx otica smoking a 1 million dollar system posted by Jay. Please comment. 😊
I used the 7” cantus with a seas aluminum dome fantastic dynamic range used a basic 2 nd order with Ansar silver,owe forget I used kimber tc wire it’s so clean Teflon is a great dielectric.
I would like to see a ranking of the various influences on the quality of a loudspeaker. In the following, I will try to list all the influences and ask you to put them in the correct order. In doing so, I assume that the drivers used are of a decent quality and will not be considered further. Rounded housing edges Iron-free coils Iron-free connection terminals Spacing of the drivers Time-correct design Internal cables with large cross-section PVC - free cable insulation Flush-mounted drivers Feel free to list further influences
This is what it looks like when someone does this day in and day out for decades. Just like my brother whom has worked on cars for decades, they know and can get directly to what is the problem and what the fix is. The downside is having to put up with all the enthusiasts that have all there half baked theory's on how things work.
Manufactures use components that are to hand and as cheap as possible, so if they have a lot of higher than required voltage ones in a big batch, they will use them expediently, trading off a potential slight audible difference. Having Mundorf in the promotional blurb if good enough.
Hey Danny, I've just discovered your channel and loving it, that tweeter made me think of some vintage ESS speakers I have with the Heil tweeters, have you ever upgraded any of those? I have the AMT4 model which is a 10 inch woofer and the Heil tweeter is about 3/4 the size of the big Heil's and it sits on top of a sealed woofer cabinet and is open in the back so I guess you would consider the tweeter an open baffle. Would love to send one in for an upgrade but man these things are so heavy, still may do it at some point. Your open baffle designs have me thinking about experimenting with a long side and short side on that Heil tweeter to upgrade it's performance and possibly make it more dimensional.
😢That sounds like a great design. But, those and I mean all true ribbon drivers have similar distortion profiles. You can not get around it even in a line array. If you want accuracy, a high-quality dome out performs ribbons every time!
21:21 I'm glad you chose to make the tweeter play down a bit lower instead of the woofer playing up a bit more. No pun intended! Doing what you did was the right thing to do cos (if the tweeter can handle it) those frequencies would be way more accurate and defined than done with the woofer. And also it's more point source, making the voice sound more defined as well.
@@dannyrichie9743 I thought certain levels of distortion could be easily heard. Why do you recommend air core inductors above 200 Hz? Isn't that because the most of iron core inductors significantly distort signal at higher frequencies while at lower frequencies their distortion is very low and can be ignored?
@@IliyaOsnovikov When distortion levels are +/-1 to 2% (typical) there is no real difference there. It is also a number that can be easily manipulated several ways including just changing the volume. So it is not a good way to measure as a gauge of quality. There isn't even any industry standard for measuring that way. If there is a high level of distortion somewhere it can also be seen in other measurements. Iron core inductors hold a residual charge that causes smearing. So as frequency ranges get up around and above 200Hz that smearing can easily be heard. That smearing can be called a distortion, but it is not a harmonic distortion as distortion is typically measured.
I wonder how many speaker manufacturers actually send in a speaker to GR-Research so you can iron out any possible problems that they don't have the chops to suss out themselves.
Interesting Xover explanation. In common, I‘m with your theoretics. What too might matter with bigger high voltage caps is the microphonic footprint in a well shaken speaker case. But this is nitpicking, only listening tests can tell whether the smearing by thicker cap foil is higher than the microphonic behavior of a higher mass cap.
pretty interesting review and xover mod. Do not know what era these were from but would guess they are from 10-15 years ago when Mundorf was all the rage in capacitors. Today there are much better copper foil caps if a person is willing to spend a few bucks for them. Also found it curious why the mfgr would spend the money for Mundorfs, then not use an air core inductor. Sort of akin to installing racing brakes on your performance car but then using the cheapest tires you can find that will fit the rims.
@@miheadhurts I have found the Sonicaps to be the best go to capacitor for a clean signal transfer without coloration and at a reasonable price. I also like the Miflex, Jupiter, and Dueland Copper foil caps, but they do get a little pricy.
@@dannyrichie9743 appears still a current model but the original review dates to 2008. wonder if the current copies are still using same parts or not....
I'd would rather put in a modern bass driver, I feel thats what holding this speaker back. Better sensitivity overall and deeper bass could easily be had with a modern inexpensive driver. I think the off axis response could be problematic in a small room with lots of sidewall reflections, i wonder how the peak in 2-3kHz area will manifest IRL. Wide female vocals or just a forward sound character? As always great vid!
Curious to how the PVC coating on top of the nylon affects the wire if the PVC doesn't touch the actual copper. I would not think that anything past the first dielectric would affect the signal. Just curious since I made some interconnects with 2 layers of cotton dielectric then coated that in PTFE to protect the cotton and give the cable some thickness.
Not at all. Try comparing the sound through the same caps that are lower and higher voltage rated to hear the difference. I have. The lower voltage rated caps have a thinner film that distorts the signal less and provides a cleaner sound.
18:00 Hello, I know that I’ve haven’t heard these speakers, but that bump at 4 khz is pretty nasty, that’s around where the ear is the most sensitive. It’s better to have a dip than a bump. But I’m only speaking for my self.
Danny I feel you are being a bit nit picky on this one. The PVC covering the nylon is not really going to change air getting into the wires. I understand that you don't like PVC, but in this case I don't think it would make a huge difference.
It isn't about air getting into it. PVC has a higher dielectric constant. It adds the potential for more stored energy or residual charge that it can hold.
Only some of us know the difference, even me it took several years to come to the conclusion , like always Danny a great videoand enjoyable. @@dannyrichie9743
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Yep, anything you put around on on the wire changes how the signal is conducted by the wire, even setting it on a carpeted floor.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK I was under the impression that the whole "lift the cables off the floor" thing was more about electrical interference isolation, not changing any properties of the wire. Learn something new every time I watch a video of yours.
Oh yes it can. Anything on or around the wire can hold an electrical charge that effects the signal. Even laying the wire on a carpeted floor will have an effect.
in our school books, they showed us little minus signs wiggling back and forth in a wire to represent current. All current creates fields and all fields are influenced by the dielectric properties of the materials they flow in. all materials, even air, have unique dielectric properties. The field in turn, affects the current that created them.
A question for you, would the tweeter’s work better laying 3” sideways instead of in height? Will this give the same results but on a different axis? Always interesting
@@rodm1949 A ribbon is connected and suspended on the top and bottom. It is really suspended in the gap by the top connection and then connected at the bottom. Laying the ribbon on its side will cause it to sag.
@@dannyrichie9743 That seems pretty definitive. Were I bit younger with more time (and money) on my hands, I would take that as a challenge. My first attempt would be some ~3/8" "U" shaped rigid tubes/rods about 1/4" apart covering the top & bottom 1/3 of the driver. Place them about 1/2"-1" in front of the driver. My second attempt might be a wave guide of sorts with a "hump" on either side of the center of the driver. (This wouldn't work well with this enclosure, but for a DIY enclosure it might be OK.
No, what I said about the Mundorf caps is from direct A/B comparisons. This has also involved a lot of comparisons involving every cap they make. I have a lot of fans in Germany. I just wore a t-shirt in one of the video's that I just shot, that is from a German soccer team (Dorfdverein). I have also worn a t-shirt with Kramaric on it in another video. I even grew up working in a German bakery. The German family that owned it was my second family.
I did, just that bought one and upgraded it. I wear hearing aids and I can tell a difference. It was an immediate notice. I just wish I had seen Danny sooner and bought his DIY systems. But will soon enough.
And Danny did not even mention - "No holes in the bottom for little feet, good job"!
i learnt something about parallel caps and voltage rating of caps today. Thanks. i usually buy 250V caps or lower due to cost and size not knowing that it could affect the sound.
I’m so impressed with the Knowledge and sensible approach you take to upgrade stuff it takes a lot of work to get to this level .
I love seeing these various speakers.
I've had these same speakers about 8 years. Listen to them daily - I am very satisfied. High quality. They will surprise you given the right amplification pairing, how much of a sound stage they will put out, with impressive bass. It took me a while to get the right combination, but once I had it dialed in they are really nice. Vinyl sounds great on here too. I am using Luxman R-117 to drive them.
Great video for the people who say Danny only likes his stuff. Remember, people send stuff they want to fix. The good stuff tends to be enjoyed and not messed with.
Yep, agreed. Plus, many of the speakers he gets in to improve are usually on the relatively inexpensive side too, and so the manufacturers of those relatively cheaper speakers are ALWAYS having to cut corners to make them to a price point, so for the mass majority of speakers he gets in, there is usually a HUGE margin for significant improvement, especially within the crossover network itself, because THAT is the most common part of pretty much ANY "budget friendly" speaker, that gets compromised first and foremost, partly because truly Great quality parts are indeed quite expensive, AND because the crossover network of a speaker is usually never seen by the consumer because it's totally enclosed in the box, plus it's ALSO the least well understood and usually the most complex part of a speaker, so unless you REALLY know a good bit about speakers, then that is the place that manufacturers can most easily get away with using cheap quality parts, because most people don't even know what they're looking at if they ever actually DO see one, OR what is good and bad about a specific design, so potentially the MOST cost savings combined with the misunderstandings of AND the "out of sight, out of mind" aspect, is why most speaker companies cut corners in their crossovers... Which then in turn, leaves the MOST significant sound quality improvements to be able to be made by Danny.
If a speaker TRULY DOES actually have REALLY Great quality parts in its crossover network, and the box and drivers are also well designed, like many/most MUCH higher end speakers more oftentimes are, then they are ALREADY making whoever buys them happy for the most part, and that's why Danny usually doesn't see too many TRULY awesome speakers in for upgrades, because those higher end speakers more oftentimes don't need to be changed much, if even at all.
@@JoeJ-8282 agree. People are too focused on pretty to be concerned with what's inside.
I have used the Aurum Cantus G2Si tweeter in my main Quintetta speakers since 2004. i still thoroughly enjoy them, they sound great. Ribbons sound so airy and effortless.
Fantastic tech talk video love hearing the why behind doing upgrades or changes to make something have better clarity. 👍
I follow a lot of audio related utube channels and GR Research is absolutely my favorite! Danny has forgot more than 99% of others know. Your passion and attention to details is unparalleled! Would love to see you and Jay from Jay's Audio Lab collaborate on something, that would be epic! Keep up the great content.😊
We've met and talked about it. We'll do something together one of these days.
Jay is anti diy that's the problem. I've also meet him and I'm a huge promotion for gr research. Danny take a look at my recent video nx otica smoking a 1 million dollar system posted by Jay. Please comment. 😊
That was difficult. They allmost had it. But Danny corrected it to perfection😃
Thanks for the video. Learned something new about power ratings in caps, how it affects the sound.
I used the 7” cantus with a seas aluminum dome fantastic dynamic range used a basic 2 nd order with Ansar silver,owe forget I used kimber tc wire it’s so clean Teflon is a great dielectric.
The pvc jacket did what?
All it did was hold the wires together,
You already mentioned the wire was great
I would like to see a ranking of the various influences on the quality of a loudspeaker. In the following, I will try to list all the influences and ask you to put them in the correct order. In doing so, I assume that the drivers used are of a decent quality and will not be considered further.
Rounded housing edges
Iron-free coils
Iron-free connection terminals
Spacing of the drivers
Time-correct design
Internal cables with large cross-section
PVC - free cable insulation
Flush-mounted drivers
Feel free to list further influences
This is what it looks like when someone does this day in and day out for decades. Just like my brother whom has worked on cars for decades, they know and can get directly to what is the problem and what the fix is. The downside is having to put up with all the enthusiasts that have all there half baked theory's on how things work.
Yes. Too many people think they're an "expert."
Nice job Danny... Enjoyed this one!!
Good job, Danny.
Manufactures use components that are to hand and as cheap as possible, so if they have a lot of higher than required voltage ones in a big batch, they will use them expediently, trading off a potential slight audible difference. Having Mundorf in the promotional blurb if good enough.
I'm shocked you don't have way more subs.
Hey Danny, I've just discovered your channel and loving it, that tweeter made me think of some vintage ESS speakers I have with the Heil tweeters, have you ever upgraded any of those? I have the AMT4 model which is a 10 inch woofer and the Heil tweeter is about 3/4 the size of the big Heil's and it sits on top of a sealed woofer cabinet and is open in the back so I guess you would consider the tweeter an open baffle. Would love to send one in for an upgrade but man these things are so heavy, still may do it at some point. Your open baffle designs have me thinking about experimenting with a long side and short side on that Heil tweeter to upgrade it's performance and possibly make it more dimensional.
😢That sounds like a great design. But, those and I mean all true ribbon drivers have similar distortion profiles. You can not get around it even in a line array. If you want accuracy, a high-quality dome out performs ribbons every time!
Well mr Eficion just got a master class from Danny for free ;)
Looks like he failed the class 😂
actually he is called Peigen Jiang or PJ for friends. Seems to be selling some sort of fitness torture machine now as well.
21:21 I'm glad you chose to make the tweeter play down a bit lower instead of the woofer playing up a bit more. No pun intended! Doing what you did was the right thing to do cos (if the tweeter can handle it) those frequencies would be way more accurate and defined than done with the woofer. And also it's more point source, making the voice sound more defined as well.
Well done! I'm curious, if there are any speakers you would like in terms of engineering point of view? Regards, A.
If you've watched my video's then you will have noticed quite a few.
Would be nice to compare distortion curves before and after the upgrade.
"Distortion" is much more a term for marketing than any real measuring stick.
@@dannyrichie9743 I thought certain levels of distortion could be easily heard. Why do you recommend air core inductors above 200 Hz? Isn't that because the most of iron core inductors significantly distort signal at higher frequencies while at lower frequencies their distortion is very low and can be ignored?
@@IliyaOsnovikov When distortion levels are +/-1 to 2% (typical) there is no real difference there. It is also a number that can be easily manipulated several ways including just changing the volume. So it is not a good way to measure as a gauge of quality. There isn't even any industry standard for measuring that way.
If there is a high level of distortion somewhere it can also be seen in other measurements.
Iron core inductors hold a residual charge that causes smearing. So as frequency ranges get up around and above 200Hz that smearing can easily be heard. That smearing can be called a distortion, but it is not a harmonic distortion as distortion is typically measured.
I wonder how many speaker manufacturers actually send in a speaker to GR-Research so you can iron out any possible problems that they don't have the chops to suss out themselves.
Interesting Xover explanation. In common, I‘m with your theoretics. What too might matter with bigger high voltage caps is the microphonic footprint in a well shaken speaker case. But this is nitpicking, only listening tests can tell whether the smearing by thicker cap foil is higher than the microphonic behavior of a higher mass cap.
Danny, did you measure T-S parameters of the woofers 'cause AC midwoofers almost never measure what the factory specs say.
No, I went by factory specs.
pretty interesting review and xover mod. Do not know what era these were from but would guess they are from 10-15 years ago when Mundorf was all the rage in capacitors. Today there are much better copper foil caps if a person is willing to spend a few bucks for them. Also found it curious why the mfgr would spend the money for Mundorfs, then not use an air core inductor.
Sort of akin to installing racing brakes on your performance car but then using the cheapest tires you can find that will fit the rims.
I think they are fairly current: eficion.com/F200.html
So what is your choice of capacitors?
@@miheadhurts I have found the Sonicaps to be the best go to capacitor for a clean signal transfer without coloration and at a reasonable price. I also like the Miflex, Jupiter, and Dueland Copper foil caps, but they do get a little pricy.
Mundorf caps r current and sanely price relative to the caps u mention
@@dannyrichie9743 appears still a current model but the original review dates to 2008. wonder if the current copies are still using same parts or not....
I believe this is a re badged Aurum Cantus speaker .
i was thinking the same
aurum cantus has made a lote of speakers for other brands , ....like red rose music (mark levinson)
I like this one, have not heard of this speaker but nice alteration
I'd would rather put in a modern bass driver, I feel thats what holding this speaker back. Better sensitivity overall and deeper bass could easily be had with a modern inexpensive driver. I think the off axis response could be problematic in a small room with lots of sidewall reflections, i wonder how the peak in 2-3kHz area will manifest IRL. Wide female vocals or just a forward sound character? As always great vid!
Problem with people today you can't have your own opinion
Curious to how the PVC coating on top of the nylon affects the wire if the PVC doesn't touch the actual copper. I would not think that anything past the first dielectric would affect the signal. Just curious since I made some interconnects with 2 layers of cotton dielectric then coated that in PTFE to protect the cotton and give the cable some thickness.
never heard of them but that odd circuit is a strange thing. easy speaker to drive for sure.
Typo in the video title: Should be Eficion F200.
Danny, higher voltage film capacitors always have better quality. Lower distortion, lower dissipation factor (losses) etc.
Not at all. Try comparing the sound through the same caps that are lower and higher voltage rated to hear the difference. I have. The lower voltage rated caps have a thinner film that distorts the signal less and provides a cleaner sound.
@@dannyrichie9743you can parallel 2 identical caps without issues correct? Same capacitance and voltage?
@@alexw890 Yes, no issues.
Looks like a LSA cabinet….?..
18:00 Hello, I know that I’ve haven’t heard these speakers, but that bump at 4 khz is pretty nasty, that’s around where the ear is the most sensitive. It’s better to have a dip than a bump. But I’m only speaking for my self.
Huh? There is nothing nasty at 4kHz. It is not even 1db above the average. Energy at 4kHz will easily get attenuated in the in-room response.
Danny I feel you are being a bit nit picky on this one. The PVC covering the nylon is not really going to change air getting into the wires. I understand that you don't like PVC, but in this case I don't think it would make a huge difference.
It isn't about air getting into it. PVC has a higher dielectric constant. It adds the potential for more stored energy or residual charge that it can hold.
Only some of us know the difference, even me it took several years to come to the conclusion , like always Danny a great videoand enjoyable. @@dannyrichie9743
@@dannyrichie9743 even as a cover over the nylon coated wires?
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Yep, anything you put around on on the wire changes how the signal is conducted by the wire, even setting it on a carpeted floor.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK I was under the impression that the whole "lift the cables off the floor" thing was more about electrical interference isolation, not changing any properties of the wire. Learn something new every time I watch a video of yours.
Now we need a lesson on how to hear the difference.
An interesting mod.
Love to find that brand online lol
We added a link.
If you measure those drivers you will find published specs are way off. They have much higher Qts than .19.
PVC jacket it not in contact with conductors. So it just can't affect sound in any way.
Oh yes it can. Anything on or around the wire can hold an electrical charge that effects the signal. Even laying the wire on a carpeted floor will have an effect.
in our school books, they showed us little minus signs wiggling back and forth in a wire to represent current. All current creates fields and all fields are influenced by the dielectric properties of the materials they flow in. all materials, even air, have unique dielectric properties. The field in turn, affects the current that created them.
@@markwilding3828 Correct.
Did you pull the top down with a small inductor?
Yes.
@@dannyrichie9743 Sweet! A favorite trick of mine. I learned it from watching your videos my friend!I’d love to let you hear some of my designs.
$3400 list
Thank you.
For the 2 sets of binding posts, could one just solder the leads together and use a single set? Is there anything to gain by that?
That still doesn't solve all of the issues. If you get our upgrade kit then it replaces both sets of binding posts with one set of tube connectors.
The 2k area hotspot is caused by the baffle, correct?
In the off axis? Yes.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks!
A question for you, would the tweeter’s work better laying 3” sideways instead of in height? Will this give the same results but on a different axis? Always interesting
In short, no.
@@dannyrichie9743 Has it been tried or just theorized? I see it the same as orientating a 6x9 driver.
@@rodm1949 A ribbon is connected and suspended on the top and bottom. It is really suspended in the gap by the top connection and then connected at the bottom. Laying the ribbon on its side will cause it to sag.
What is the “1 k hurt” that is mentioned several times during this video?
1kHz
To resolve the 4" tweeter's vertical response issue could something be added to the front of the tweeter to redirect some of the sound vertically?
No.
@@dannyrichie9743 That seems pretty definitive.
Were I bit younger with more time (and money) on my hands, I would take that as a challenge.
My first attempt would be some ~3/8" "U" shaped rigid tubes/rods about 1/4" apart covering the top & bottom 1/3 of the driver. Place them about 1/2"-1" in front of the driver.
My second attempt might be a wave guide of sorts with a "hump" on either side of the center of the driver. (This wouldn't work well with this enclosure, but for a DIY enclosure it might be OK.
Peter Walker of Quad is dead... If he wasn't he cudv rung Danny for advice on how to significantly improve his pioneering 57 Electrostatic
Jamo Concert VII cmon......
Why can’t Ficion be googled?
try eficion
Falcon made the BBC LS3.5
I don't think it's that Falcon it's Ficion
@@stephenyoud6125 I could not find any info online for either name myself.
@@willbrink Falcon Acoustics in UK you can definitely find, but Ficion I never heard of before
@@stephenyoud6125 speakers says Ficion, but the company is called Eficion. Look for Eficion F200
This one is Eficion. It's the F200.
👍👍😎✌️🤟
Not a fan of mundorf caps. Germany is not a fan from you. A little bit of arrogance.
Having an informed opinion on something isn’t an attack on you. Perhaps he has an experience versus other options that you don’t. Grow up.
@@umiami91bullshit. Überzogene Arroganz. Er meint er beherrscht alles. Preislich total überteuerte Upgrades.
@@thomasschafer7268 classy insulting the guy auf Deutsch. Du bist sicherlich einer dieser AFD Idioten oder?
No, what I said about the Mundorf caps is from direct A/B comparisons. This has also involved a lot of comparisons involving every cap they make.
I have a lot of fans in Germany. I just wore a t-shirt in one of the video's that I just shot, that is from a German soccer team (Dorfdverein). I have also worn a t-shirt with Kramaric on it in another video. I even grew up working in a German bakery. The German family that owned it was my second family.
@@thomasschafer7268 IME, Mundorf caps are good, but not the best.
Are these videos legit? Or are they just to promote his high-dollar upgrade kits???
Our upgrades are as legit as it gets.
Build one. Find out.
I did, just that bought one and upgraded it. I wear hearing aids and I can tell a difference. It was an immediate notice. I just wish I had seen Danny sooner and bought his DIY systems. But will soon enough.