Well, the thing is, if I could get every player to use the same mods, then fixing this would be a waste of that power. The real way to use that power would be to fix the pvp balance of the entire game in the ways that can't reasonably be done now because of client sync issues.
Glad you're back! On the topic of those mods - I think that they're cheating and if there's no way to restrict it on the program level, they should get detected the same way the chess cheating does, even though it's difficult to moderate it this way. Not a pvp player myself, but I think it would be just for everyone so the gameplay on vanilla clients doesn't get behind all the modded ones.
Chess cheaters use bots, making a fair few patterns that can give them away. These patterns are hard to find in a game like mindustry, especially considering it could just be someone making guesses as to what their opponent will do, or quick reactions, rather than mods.
What if we could set it up so everyone had the ui? Or maybe made a repository for extended ui resources to even the playing field since removing it is so hard.
@@evanpettijohn4049letting everyone cheat is a slippery slope and will eventually lead to players developing more and more advanced cheats. And it's difficult to balance an entire server around everyone having cheats
Mom wake up! He uploaded! Also, I'm thinking of making a hex PVP series because I already uploaded one and it's still my most popular uploaded video! I'm happy to see that my uploads are helping you!
when i was first introduced to mindustry pvp i was told that mods like extended UI were mandatory. Some things like army size saves a ton of time, and while you can do it manually it was always just really annoying, imo most of extended UI's features(not the really broken autofill stuff) should be either base game, or the fog of war shouldnt be disableable clientside. however clientside FoW is too engrained into the games code to be fixed, and most of the game's playerbase are very casual players who would just get overwhelmed if they saw the UI so i dont think either of those changes would happen. The unit counting which I was always confused why you never used it gives a massive advantage but its just replacing really annoying screen panning stuff that shouldnt be required anyways since a pvp rts with no FoW is kinda scuffed at the end of the day. IMO extended UI minus the autofill is the least of all evils here but having some advantage over people like you who dont want any mods at all is just pretty cringe and makes any win feel kinda hollow. I never felt bad about extended UI since most pvp players use it and prefer the QoL it gives, but watching a good player loose because they didnt install the "manditory mods" is kinda just sad. Also tbf, this seeing enemy move orders thing wasnt around when i played and kinda seems really messed up since the stuff in extended UI was usually just info anyone could get manually but it would take like 20-30 seconds to get normally just because of cringy screen panning
yeah sad situation all around, i only plan to use the same mods everyone else uses, and i just hope the ones that are used are the ones that actually encourage skillful gameplay and dont just remove it
You pointed out what was considered cheating spot on. I'm not too competitive but trying to get everyone to use the exact same tools seems extremely frustrating
being able to see enemy resources, mouse movement and rts commands gives you extra information that you should not have access to and makes playing the game easier (similar to x-ray or wallhacks in other games) and since x-ray and wallhacks are considered cheating I don't see a reason to not categorize these mods as cheats
Yea 100% agree. It's unfair advantages so it's cheating. That being said, I kinda think schematics are borderline cheating. The most fair PvP in this game is no schemes, all skill and practice.
@@googlygoo4575 imo schems are the reason why mindustry is so unique compared to other rts games rather than everyone using the same structures (eg: all zerg players use the same hive structure in sc2) each player can get slight variations on their structures (eg: my early game core to 7 flare vs viro's core to 8 flare) and have it affect their gameplay as a whole and since schems are a built-in feature anyone can just spectate 2 or 3 rounds and steal all the schems required to get started
@@Arzee4991 Oh yea I get you for sure. Schemes make the game stand out tremendously among other rts. But imo, anything you can do outside of a match that has a different affect within it has potential to be unfair. Just for the simple fact that one person may have access to more than their opponent. And there's nothing they could do about it other than be more prepared before the game even started.
I think the responsibity for fairness is on the mod author. They should either make it give a warning to all on the server that is being used, or they should somehow make that bonus info available to the opponents as well.
well, there will always be authors trying to give their players an advantage, you can't blame the cheating problem on the ones making the cheat client or the ones using it as it doesn't fix anything
@@justenoughrandomness8989 I can get people making cheat clients for big games, or streamable games, or PVP focused games, but cmon. There isn't a need for that in Mindustry.
Hey laro, do you have a link for schematic? Because I've been suffering through low efficiency power and etc and also units in pvp,campaign and costume😢.
Well I can't identify people using these things or not, so you don't need to do anything. I would prevent "information you shouldn't have" if I could. Decent people will turn those features off voluntarily. Things like resource rates or larger zoom I have no complaint with.
It's up to you and your personal ethics. I don't use them because I know most new players don't, even if it puts me at a disadvantage against other players who do
I think that seeing where someone is going to send their units is 100% cheating. In many rts games this information is absolutely massive, and generally shuts down a lot of potential plays and ideas by allowing people to have nearly perfect micro without any of the game sense or unpredictability of vanilla micro.
the only mod i use is a map making utility that shows the colors for all the teams >6, so that i could choose team colors for the server that don't look too similar to each other
@@social-imperium Testing Utilities But i'll repeat, unless you're making maps or doing some other obsessive-compulstive investigation of low level mindustry details, it's not going to be useful for you.
my schematics are very out of date currently. the server discord has a schematics channel that is quite active, other people there will be able to show you better stuff
yeah that stuff is definitely cheating. since mindustry uses deterministic lockstep (or something like it i think) every client has to know what everything in the map is doing or else the sim doesn't work (which is why the fog of war bypass can't be fixed, right?), but for some stuff that doesn't affect the game state, like the cursor position, could you not send that until it's relevant? i.e. don't send the "this player's cursor is here" packet until right when they click, so players can't see ahead of time where someone else is thinking, but once they click the clients still know where the units should target. idk that might not be possible with whatever server modding resources exist for mindustry yet, i'm not familiar with how much control mods have over the engine.
Yes, mods give some advantages, but for example me, I use extended UI but I don't use most of its features cuz they are too op and I don't want to cheat. And I still win reshetka who uses I guess all features that mod gives. So actually I don't think people can complain about someone using mods
![[Mindustry hex pvp] Brutal free-for-all match](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6_OjZ2jGuXY/mqdefault.jpg)
Well, the thing is, if I could get every player to use the same mods, then fixing this would be a waste of that power.
The real way to use that power would be to fix the pvp balance of the entire game in the ways that can't reasonably be done now because of client sync issues.
I have an idea. The entire map of the next eviction season will be water, which means you will have to build B O A T S.
do a special challenge where the server has one more game called "flood" where all map is covered in water so you have to build B O A T S
Glad you're back! On the topic of those mods - I think that they're cheating and if there's no way to restrict it on the program level, they should get detected the same way the chess cheating does, even though it's difficult to moderate it this way. Not a pvp player myself, but I think it would be just for everyone so the gameplay on vanilla clients doesn't get behind all the modded ones.
Chess cheaters use bots, making a fair few patterns that can give them away. These patterns are hard to find in a game like mindustry, especially considering it could just be someone making guesses as to what their opponent will do, or quick reactions, rather than mods.
bro can i ask your nick on the server?
AHHHH NO WAY HE IS ALIVE
I use extended ui but I only have it for the power ui, I don't have anything else turned on
Micah wanna play again sometimes? you didnt listen me last time please.
@lingwloke1521 I've been away from a Lotta games for a good few months lol. Life has been keeping me busy
I think it is cheating. I've had to play against people like that before, and while I suck at the game, it's still demoralizing.
What if we could set it up so everyone had the ui? Or maybe made a repository for extended ui resources to even the playing field since removing it is so hard.
@@evanpettijohn4049letting everyone cheat is a slippery slope and will eventually lead to players developing more and more advanced cheats. And it's difficult to balance an entire server around everyone having cheats
Mom wake up! He uploaded!
Also, I'm thinking of making a hex PVP series because I already uploaded one and it's still my most popular uploaded video! I'm happy to see that my uploads are helping you!
Oh sweet i didn't know there was a dome minder video out there, i'll need to find some time to watch.
LET‘S GOOOO
Finally a new serpulo eviction video
Pob
"cheater" :D
Im relatively new to hex pvp, and Im glad you're uploading hex again. Personally i absolutely love eriker. its way harder to attack from no where.
when i was first introduced to mindustry pvp i was told that mods like extended UI were mandatory. Some things like army size saves a ton of time, and while you can do it manually it was always just really annoying, imo most of extended UI's features(not the really broken autofill stuff) should be either base game, or the fog of war shouldnt be disableable clientside. however clientside FoW is too engrained into the games code to be fixed, and most of the game's playerbase are very casual players who would just get overwhelmed if they saw the UI so i dont think either of those changes would happen. The unit counting which I was always confused why you never used it gives a massive advantage but its just replacing really annoying screen panning stuff that shouldnt be required anyways since a pvp rts with no FoW is kinda scuffed at the end of the day. IMO extended UI minus the autofill is the least of all evils here but having some advantage over people like you who dont want any mods at all is just pretty cringe and makes any win feel kinda hollow. I never felt bad about extended UI since most pvp players use it and prefer the QoL it gives, but watching a good player loose because they didnt install the "manditory mods" is kinda just sad. Also tbf, this seeing enemy move orders thing wasnt around when i played and kinda seems really messed up since the stuff in extended UI was usually just info anyone could get manually but it would take like 20-30 seconds to get normally just because of cringy screen panning
There's also that whole thing about how some people play on mobile. I wouldn't consider having a computer cheating.
yeah sad situation all around, i only plan to use the same mods everyone else uses, and i just hope the ones that are used are the ones that actually encourage skillful gameplay and dont just remove it
Its been a long time since last hex video!
You pointed out what was considered cheating spot on. I'm not too competitive but trying to get everyone to use the exact same tools seems extremely frustrating
Background music very nice
I turned the Mindustry music back on and let it cook. It's nice to not have to concern about copyright for sound.
@@larofeticus agreed
@@larofeticusyes the mindustry music is so good. Whoever made it cooked in the studio
Great to see you back on serpulo again!
being able to see enemy resources, mouse movement and rts commands gives you extra information that you should not have access to and makes playing the game easier (similar to x-ray or wallhacks in other games)
and since x-ray and wallhacks are considered cheating I don't see a reason to not categorize these mods as cheats
Yea 100% agree. It's unfair advantages so it's cheating.
That being said, I kinda think schematics are borderline cheating. The most fair PvP in this game is no schemes, all skill and practice.
@@googlygoo4575 imo schems are the reason why mindustry is so unique compared to other rts games
rather than everyone using the same structures (eg: all zerg players use the same hive structure in sc2) each player can get slight variations on their structures (eg: my early game core to 7 flare vs viro's core to 8 flare) and have it affect their gameplay as a whole
and since schems are a built-in feature anyone can just spectate 2 or 3 rounds and steal all the schems required to get started
@@Arzee4991 Oh yea I get you for sure. Schemes make the game stand out tremendously among other rts.
But imo, anything you can do outside of a match that has a different affect within it has potential to be unfair. Just for the simple fact that one person may have access to more than their opponent. And there's nothing they could do about it other than be more prepared before the game even started.
hello larofetacheese here is a comment for engagement
no i will not marry you i am already taken
When I look at the server logs. It's amazing just how many people are automatically kicked for using unnecessary mods.
My favorite is the category of stupid mod names getting people kicked that literally have the word "cheat" in the name of the mod.
I think the responsibity for fairness is on the mod author. They should either make it give a warning to all on the server that is being used, or they should somehow make that bonus info available to the opponents as well.
well, there will always be authors trying to give their players an advantage, you can't blame the cheating problem on the ones making the cheat client or the ones using it as it doesn't fix anything
@@justenoughrandomness8989 I can get people making cheat clients for big games, or streamable games, or PVP focused games, but cmon. There isn't a need for that in Mindustry.
Hey laro, do you have a link for schematic? Because I've been suffering through low efficiency power and etc and also units in pvp,campaign and costume😢.
Personally I'm not I'd go as far as to call it cheating but it definitely is unfair
Hey babe wake up. Larofeticus' new video just dropped 🗣️🗣️
Hey laro. I have to ask, I happen to use some mods like this. Foo’s client, schem size, and extended ui. Will I need to do something about them or not
Well I can't identify people using these things or not, so you don't need to do anything. I would prevent "information you shouldn't have" if I could.
Decent people will turn those features off voluntarily. Things like resource rates or larger zoom I have no complaint with.
It's up to you and your personal ethics. I don't use them because I know most new players don't, even if it puts me at a disadvantage against other players who do
@@jacob.thaxton I dont use things like the mouse or unit tracker but just the info for total units and power
I think that seeing where someone is going to send their units is 100% cheating. In many rts games this information is absolutely massive, and generally shuts down a lot of potential plays and ideas by allowing people to have nearly perfect micro without any of the game sense or unpredictability of vanilla micro.
In my opinion... very unfair
yayyy more hex pvp
hey bro! which mods do you use?
the only mod i use is a map making utility that shows the colors for all the teams >6, so that i could choose team colors for the server that don't look too similar to each other
@@larofeticus could u say name of mod?
@@social-imperium Testing Utilities
But i'll repeat, unless you're making maps or doing some other obsessive-compulstive investigation of low level mindustry details, it's not going to be useful for you.
@@larofeticus thank u, im agree about this
@larofeticus hello one more time, i have a question: where u took the schemes?
can you give us a file with all your schematics please ? im struggling to find some good schems
my schematics are very out of date currently. the server discord has a schematics channel that is quite active, other people there will be able to show you better stuff
@@larofeticus alright thanks
Yeah its map hacking, no two ways about it.
yeah that stuff is definitely cheating. since mindustry uses deterministic lockstep (or something like it i think) every client has to know what everything in the map is doing or else the sim doesn't work (which is why the fog of war bypass can't be fixed, right?), but for some stuff that doesn't affect the game state, like the cursor position, could you not send that until it's relevant?
i.e. don't send the "this player's cursor is here" packet until right when they click, so players can't see ahead of time where someone else is thinking, but once they click the clients still know where the units should target. idk that might not be possible with whatever server modding resources exist for mindustry yet, i'm not familiar with how much control mods have over the engine.
Yes, mods give some advantages, but for example me, I use extended UI but I don't use most of its features cuz they are too op and I don't want to cheat. And I still win reshetka who uses I guess all features that mod gives. So actually I don't think people can complain about someone using mods
A
"I cheat but not too much because I don't want to be categorized as a cheater"
-giselle
@@Arzee4991 is sand mining cheating
You could just give everyone the cheats so it’s fair
Or make a repository for all extended ui resources so they’re easily available to everyone which would even the playing field.
Yeah they cheating
tell me the mods
Cheating