Destiny 2 Lore - The potential origins of The Dread & The Witness' twisted vision of perfection.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story from The Final Shape tells us of The Dread. These new enemies are the Witness' own faction and are found in the Pale Heart of The Traveller, but they also seem to indicate something far darker about The Witness' vision of The Final Shape. Observing these enemies it appears to be the case that they're all twisted variants of the many peoples that The Witness has conquered or received allegiance from. Be they the Psions, The Hive or its Disciples.
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Even when I stop playing, I’ve never stopped listening to Byf.
Same here 🫡 tried to get back into the game multiple times but I love the lore
Byf’s been telling the amazing story of the game, which says a lot about the storytelling of the game itself
Same.
We do love listening to our Lore Daddy
Same. No point in playing the game with loredaddy here.
The dread have instantly become my favourite faction just due to the subjugators alone, they carry a strange respect towards us [as shown by the bow at the start of the fight] which makes me excited to see any major dread characters.
They should call the Stasis one Subjugator and give the Strand one another name. The Psions are Weavers and Attendants.
@EternalFount Oppressor? It's another word for Subugator
Respectful 🤔. They’re definitely not clones of Rhulk then 😂
@@STUFFfromthegooddaysCould be his race
The grim and subjugators are automatically my favorite enemies but I’m sure I’ll get frustrated fighting them soon lol.
If the dread are made off of the collected bodies of the hive and other species, it could mean that all of the frozen bodies in the pyramid ships are there waiting to be dreaded.
There is also the possibility that some of the Dread are chimeric in nature, being stitched together from the templates of different species.
Like xcom and viltrumites!
I'm surprised no one brought up the stark similarities between the Grim and the Venus bats
Also, keep in mind all the cabal, hive, and scorn that were locked in those amber blocks on the pyramid ship.
Wasn't there a flying species that Oryx defeated? If i remember correctly the lore talked about their leader being taken by him and something about a giant pillar of light being feasted on by the hive once they lost. Could be the remnants of those people were turned like Byf suggested Rhulk's people were? That'd be really cool lore connection from TTK if true
We know this to be true. Both Nezarec and tormentors have been developed with the idea of them being chimeras. They directly been said as much in concept art descriptions.
My theory is that the caretaker is a prototype for the husk. It’s not worm and hive. It’s worm and scorn.
Very interesting theory. I'd like to hear more on that
Husk’s hood is almost identical to the Caretaker’s hood.
Makes sense to me, the Geists it shoots out on death remind me of the projectiles Caretaker bombards us with in VotD.
The thing is scorn have 4 arms like fallen and the docked ones that have 2 arms have little stumps like dregs and abominations do.
@jira6423 If you look closely, Husks seem to have two big rib-like spikes right around their waist that could be a sharpened remnant of their nub arms.
Considering the Tormentor and Subjugator are based off of Nezarec and Rhulk, respectively, my gut tells me the Dread may be based on the other Disciples the Witness had in the past.
Same idea I believe the pyramid ships have clone labs with DNA samples of disciples to make a loyal army for himself or the disciples if they live
Tormentors = Nezarec
Subjugators = Rhulk
Husks = ?
Grim = ?
The Weavers and Adjuncts (psions) worship Nezarec and some of them is in the shadow legion is the Witness reshaping them is like rewarding them like cloning it's disciples
If so; than get your undies ready for the boss design for the flying Dread lol.
PS:
To be honest, these new guys are *Creepy as heck~*, to me at least...
@@cjopticon2378a giant flying Dread as a raid boss would go hard imo
@@cjopticon2378 Don't you mean
GUN BAT
You could also connect the husk with the second phase of the calus discple boss fight, with the worm things being like those spinning pyramid shots from his first phase, or they could be a prelude to xivu and her worm or something
Husks to me seem more like the final step of Rhulk's Scorn/Worm experiments. Their hooded apparel is just too similar to the caretaker for me to ignore.
I thought the same when the worm came flying out
That’s a really good point
That would be awesome to see
Thats what I thought too, bloated chest cavity and a dreg like appearance was a big give a way.
Not to mention the Geist being a "Worm" that has taken on a sort of Skreeb self detonation aspect.
Perhaps it's a combination of Scorn and Hive. As in the meat suit was Scorn, implanted with a worm and wrapped in a Hive to use the Carapace as a form of Armour.
Would make them into a more complex Compound Creature than the Hive alone.
Grims may be what's left of the Hive after the worm and most of the Carapace has been flayed from them for the Husk, sort of a Moth with batwings out of it's cocoon perhaps. With the three eyes being taken by the Husk, the Grims stump of a head would need replacment.
Nezarec has all the right ingredients to the next great, “big bad” for the next saga. He’s very hard to kill, he is fear itself, and he could possibly be a threat to even the Hive Gods and Worms. Contorting those he kills, into monstrous Taken/Dread hybrids potentially. To inspire more fear.
Maybe he will take control of the remaining forces of the witness and recreate it into his new empire of terror
I just hope we get nightmare as the final darkness subclass if we are to get 3 dark for the 3 light
My current theory is that these creatures, aside from the attendants, are all creations in the image of former Disciples, as a twisted way to honor their memory. The reason that Subjugators weren't deployed alongside Tormentors on Neomuna is because while Tormentors had been created after Nezarec's death in the Collapse, Subjugators were still being worked on, as the Witness only began creating them after Rhulk died. Them being a recent creation also explains why they use Strand like we do, even though the Witness previously had no idea Strand could be used that way. Strand powers were likely a last minute addition to account for our new abilities.
And my current theory is that the Grimm are based on the mysterious disciple that attacked the exodus indigo from the winterbite glaive and here are 3 reasons.
First of all: the lore stated that a disciple of the Witness was on the hull of the exodus indigo. If a disciple was able to reach the exodus indigo meant that this disciple must have wings. Secondly: the winterbite glaive was used tear open the hull by the disciple wielding it. And lastly: this glaive was given to the disciple by Rhulk, just Nezarec was given a glaive of his own.
The Psion Conclave that joined Calus and the Witness must feel very regretful now, being changed into these mutant creatures. I bet the ones who remain unchanged will join with Caiatls Ascendancy, right?
Well no. Caiatl has made it very clear that she has no mercy to give to traitors. Every time you do a Vox Obscura Exotic Mission to shut off the Psion Conclaves Broadcast, she reacts with glee at the sight of you killing them “Eliminate these Traitors! For the honor of the Vanguard and the Empire!” And in the Shadow Legion Lost Sector you can get this exchange:
Caiatl: “Traitors and deserters, the lot of them. You do the Cabal Empire a great service, Guardian.
Ghost: All of them?
Caiatl: *Any Cabal* who have wound up here are no longer Cabal. There was ample opportunity to turn back.”
Now you might think that “Well, the Shadow Legion are completely mindless and emotionless so who cares about wiping them out?”
Well, that’s not actually true. Caiatl admits this in the Lightfall Campaign:
Caiatl: The soldiers Calus sends. While *some* of these may be the mindless clones you saw on the Leviathan, *many more* are deserters and traitors... Those who have forgotten what it means to be Cabal.
And lastly, not to mention back in Season of the Chosen, Caiatl broadcasts the Execution of a Psion Conclave Member ON AIR. Really, it seems like the idea that the Shadow Legion and Psion Conclave being just mindless clones is just Propaganda for Caiatl to dehumanize her enemies and motivate Guardians to wipe them out.
So this means Amtec, Yirix, and the Psion Conclave is trapped. Either they accept the Dreads Transformations, or they get exterminated by Caiatls “honorable” Ascendancy. That’s kinda tragic.
To be fair, what they're doing is basically FAFO, and they've never even given out an olive branch in the first place.
@@chriswu772 what’s FAFO? The Psion Conclaves goal of building an independent Psion nation is not a bad one. They have years of enslavement to catch up on.
And Caiatl makes no secret that she sees the Shadow Legion as basically “subhuman”
Ghost: “I've been wondering: Can they really have just stopped being Cabal? Just like that? Even the Humans we don't particularly like are still, you know, Human.
Caiatl: This Shadow Legion has chosen to set aside centuries of our history to revel in destruction at the command of a despot. Would a Guardian who turned on your Last City still be Human?
Ghost: ...I don't know.”
Just because your enemies commit atrocities doesn’t give you an excuse to. You need to set a standard.
@markricheard1870 I'm guessing F.. Around and Find Out.
If only the OXTA could show them a third way right...
So to clear up some points, you forgot to mention the second half of Caiatl's convos with Osiris. She regrets that this kind of thing had to occur at all- that there's infighting and division amongst the Cabal. Even throughout the Gilded Precept lost sector, she pities the Shadow Legion when not hating on the fact that they chose to side with someone who cares so little about the cabal he actively uses clones and wished to join the one entity capable of ending all of creation. You even mention the part where she says, "They had ample opportunity to turn back". She was more than willing to take them back in, and she even issued warnings to those heading into the Europa pyramid. It's pretty clear she gave them chances, and rather than take it, they chose to oppose the alliance and what remains of the Cabal Empire. It's pretty obvious why they need to go
You're also forgoing WHY she shot that Psion. They straight up tried to kill Zavala during a peace talk. They undermined both her authority and potentially the last chance for the Cabal to survive in Sol.
She's not even dehumanizing her enemies? The Psions of the conclave are treated as intelligent enemies that need to go because they are actively making propaganda for Calus. Him and his master anyways, showing the Traveler killed, Calus ruling everything Cabal related, and conveniently forgoing the whole calcify all of existence bit. She doesn't need to dehumanize them either, the Psion conclave was responsible for launching the Almighty at the Last City, its pretty clear why it should be on sight for Guardians. You also admit that she says some of the Cabal in the Shadow Legion are deserters, so she debunks the whole mindless drones part of her supposed propaganda.
Even still, actually, is that she could be an unreliable narrator. Amanda, who had first hand experience with the Shadow Legion, described them as husks and without any sort of sentience beyond following orders. There could simply be a lot more clones that Caiatl could ever account for.
The Psion convlave's goals of making an independent nation are swell, until you realize they chose to side with the cabal emperor that couldn't give them their freedom over the one that actually did. They're clearly not in it for freedom, and if it's true that under Calus, Psions were given higher status than typical cabal, they're only in it for their ego. I mean, Otzot literally helped overthrow Calus to keep her high status. It's not like it isn't a precedent already
Finally, yes, you are typically allowed to commit atrocities against individuals trying to actively annihilate all of existence. I don't know about you, but that just seems like the obvious choice. Even more than that, what standard is she supposed to set? Yeah, you betrayed your people, tried to ruin the Empire, willingly left and sided with a hedonistic maniac, and actively fight against the people trying to save their solar system (and beyond), but you totally dont deserve to be stopped. Im sorry for the sarcasm, but there's so much more nuance you're missing here
The scariest part of Nezarec possibly gaining use of the new enemies, is that Bungie heavily implied that Nezarec has connections to the Vex Network. That meaning he could possibly send the Dread through all time lines or take them from the list timelines
One of the episodes is about the Vex. What if it also involves Nezarec and the Dread?
One theory I had based off of the one image we get for the first episode is that Clovis Bray would manage to merge Exo-Tech with the Vex, as the image of the darkened Vex in the episode teaser has a dark silhouette in the center of the vex crown that very much resembles a human head. Now with this information I could totally tie in Nezarec. We know that the Vex of the Black Garden worship the Witness, so what if after its death Nezarec is able to worm his way through to the Black Garden and convince the Vex there to not only worship him but flood through the Glassway into Europa and make their way to Clovis. Nezarec being who he is and Clovis being a giant exo head who has been manipulated by the Witness before, it’s completely possible that Nezarec could scare Clovis into thinking that merging his exo-tech with the Vex would be the only way for him to build and protect the Bray Legacy™. Nezarec could then instruct the new modified Black Garden progeny to go forth and spread terror. The only holes in my theory off the top of my head are 1. If any of the Vex stuff is possible. I know the Vex of the Black Garden can leave, so they could theoretically make it to Europa. It’s also completely based off of whether or not they’d see Nezarec as a figure worthy of worship.
2. I don’t know how much control Nezarec actually has over the Vex network, if any at all. Not only that, but it seems like quite a leap in logic and also a very practical step for an entity who very much seems like he would want to inflict fear personally and spread his name. I don’t know if the Vex knowing his name counts because if so, to kill Nezarec would mean the eradication of the Vex themselves to scrub his name from their filthy little data banks.
3. I also don’t know how much control Clovis has for the exo factory facility, and with the destruction of the Morning Star if making more exos would even be possible. While he’d definitely do it for the reason stated, I don’t know if he actually has the means to do it seeing as, again, he is just a big exo head.
I am so excited to see the Final Shape’s Campaign!!! The gameplay looks so good and I hope there is no “training arc” and it’s just good story!!!
Yeah they said they would just give you the Prismatic subclass right off the rip in the first mission. Then you have to earn the rest of the aspects, fragments, and abilities by doing things in the Campaign and in the Pale Heart.
I as well am SO VERY HYPED AND EXCITED!
Honestly I'm fine for just only one mission being the training arc That's it
@@DarthLevicor You can actually see where we get the power of Prismatic in the trailer they released. It's during the part where Crow says "something has changed in the Guardian". We are fighting tons of forces and they push us back and we fall into a pit where the Travelers energy is on the ground and then we go Prismatic mode.
We got strand during the first mission @@DarthLevicor
@xreptarbreex yet somehow we still get overwhelmed in later scenes
something interesting about the language used to describe these enemies. its been established that the precursors had words with multiple different meanings. as seen in the tesselation and collectors edition lore entries, these words have to be translated to show their multiple meanings, otherwise the full context is lost.
compare this to the language the witness uses for the dread. each unit reduces the race its based on down to a single descriptor. the hive are husks thatre haunted and possesed. the psions are either attendants to the cabal or weavers of their own fate. rhulk was a subjugator, nezarec was a tormentor. theres a linguistic aspect to the final shape that involves reducing entire people and entire races down to their simplest, plainest form, a stark contrast to how the precursors used to view the world as one of many possibilities and meanings.
100% this.
I wonder what this means about the Grim, then.
These guys really remind me of the corrupted Twili from Zelda: Twilight Princess. The flyers in particular. I hear that strange trumpet noise in my head when I see the grim
Riding the honking bat thing through the lake hylia chasm is audio- ingrained into my mind
Oh nice! They do look kinda like the flyers from Twilight Princess. Especially with their flat faced heads
The flyers remind me of the Venus bats
I thought i was the only one lol
What if the dread species was what the drifter's crew encountered on that frozen planet?
This is a good idea, though the creatures in that lore entry were described like inky black serpents, I didn't get the jmpression they were humanoid at least. Maybe a reread will prove me wrong C:
@@ghoulishgoober3122 1:38
Seeing as every one of the Dread is based on an ally or disciple of the Witness I assume that the Gun Bats are based on a yet-seen Disciple. One that we may meet in the raid.
They give me Batdactyl vibes…
I feel like some of the ground dreads were humans that were able to be brought away from the guardians reachs during that season where the witness told its troups to capture humans
Doesn't seem to be true unless they are the Grim. Otherwise, everything Byf has talked about here is most likely correct. We know Psions are the Attendant and Weavers as this was confirmed by Bungie. We know that the Tormentors are based on Nezarec and existed before shadow legion took humans. We also know Subjugators are based on Rhulk from some lore. The only speculation is on the Husks but given the evidence here, I think it is very likely Byf is right.
A dread guardian boss fight would be incredible.
Witness reshapes our enemy like we reshape our weapons
theory: the humans being captured by shadow leigon in defiance we going to be turned into dread
Oh that's absolutely a possibility. I don't know if any of these enemies were once people but maybe the gun bats are. The weavers and atrendants are confirmed psions but the bats look more bloated and warped from their original form, aside from that general humanoid look
I was about to say the same thing. If that's true, there MIGHT be one more dread unit we haven't seen yet
In hindsight, that would _definitely_ fit with the Witness' modus operandi in Season of Defiance.
Honestly, the Dread convince me even more of my own personal theory about the interior of the Traveler. I think it's a place where thought/memory becomes material. You could think of it like a forge the Traveler uses to create the various life it sows across the universe. It's been my theory that when a ghost dies, its light returns to the Traveler. And when it arrives, the "memory" of the ghost's light will essentially conjure their guardian there, sort of like a final resurrection inside what some might consider a "heavenly" place. This would explain how we're going to see Cayde again. We've seen the floating islands that are sort of twisted versions of locations we're already familiar with. The places were born from the various guardians and ghosts who have died over the years. The twisting, I think, is due to the Witness's presence in this place. His mind is extremely powerful and appropriately twisted, so it may be warping the creations of those already there. I also think the Dread aren't really being converted from actual members of the various races. I think it's more likely that they're created whole cloth from the mind of the Witness. He wants subjects and an army to slow us down, and what does anybody use to create something new but inspiration from something they already know? Especially if they're on a budget or a time crunch. So he's basically just thinking "the Hive have served me for eons, and I know them well...but what would a PERFECT Hive look like?"
EDIT: I guess we did see Tormentors before the Witness entered the Traveler...so the theory's not without flaws.
The manner in which Oryx weilded the power to Take was crude and with brute force.
My money is on The Dread being a perfected version of Taken, where the one doing the Taking has the skill and finesse to fully define & even completely alter those whom they Take.
The Taken and Blights (Taken Energy) are essentially malformed, imperfect copies of existing creatures that seem to be partially trapped in the Sea of Screams or Ascendant Plain.
Basically, they are not made correctly with refined detail and only partially manifested into reality via the Ascendant Plain, making them the globular & unstable Taken with their blights we know.
Where as, the Dread appear to be a fully developed, refined, reshaped and manifested version. As in they were made by someone who knew how to weild the power to "Take" correctly.
Its also pretty much confirmed that Cayde was wished back into existance by crow in season of the wish.
I recall Tormentors being referred to as combinations of Witness and Calus' clone tech. Maybe those Grim are clones of a unseen Disciple?
Raid boss Maybe??
Calling it now, there’s still a hidden model for Dread. And it’s based on the humans they were capturing during the first season of LF
I like the way you think, but it definitely would’ve been leaked by now if that were a thing.
3:17
Titans: “You fools! Now I don’t have to walk to get closer to you!”
What if Yirix is a boss in the Final Shape raid where she is a Weaver/Attendant that uses both Strand and Stasis? Or a dungeon boss. Point is, what if she becomes a Dread that is boss class and can use both Darkness powers? Would make for an interesting fight.
Hot take: these enemies should have been the inhabitants of the pyramid ships under the witness the whole time. We should have fought them in the vow of the disciple raid, the root of nightmares raid, and they should have been here when the black fleet first arrived in our system all those years ago.
that requires effort, sadly
AGREED
Agreed, but Bungie decided to retroactively edit a new faction in the game
you know you would have bitched for a new enemy faction in TFS if they did that. STFU.
Do less and less work for more and more money is the name of this game, unfortunately.
The Husk first looked like a Hunter to me. But now, it more feels like it looks more like a Lucent Hive Acolyte.
which, is kinda the same thing really.
Lightbearer Acolytes become hunters
I hope we see other reshaped species. The Taken didn't get many new additions, nor did the Scorn. I think it'd just make sense for one or two more dread enemies to be reshaped Cabal and Scorn, respectively. Would bring a sense of cohesion to the darkness factions we've been fighting; batch-bred Shadow Legion and former House Salvation Scorn.
Your point about the psions turned dread made me think that we might see Yurix in the raid as a boss with stasis and strand powers
By looking at art of the tormentors from lightfall, I always got the idea that they, and possibly the rest of the dread in turn, were crafted similar to how our weapons are at the enclave. The art shows that the skin color of some tormentors is different colors in a square like pattern, like the table at the enclave. I always thought a nice faction name for the witness’ forces could have been “the crafted” or “the shaped” since it seems like the witness is crafting/shaping its own forces to meet its needs.
I cannot wait to watch this video!!!! A Byf a day keeps the blues away
Dude I’ve been listening to you for years. Years! You continue to help me understand the grander story in place and make me appreciate this game even more. It’s really hard to say about the grim, I like the idea that they were reshaped from a different species outside of what we know. Considering they are in inside the traveler now, it may be a species the traveler came across as well
When I first saw all the Dread standing next to eachother I was immediately reminded of the reaper ground forces in Mass Effect, but instead of body horror as an underlying design, they're all linked by having designs similar to the geometry of pyramid tech.
Love all the content. I have not played destiny in 2 years, but I was always in it for the lore, and it is starting to really excited me again.
Always love a new lore video
Here's a terrifying thought- if the throughline of all of these enemies is that they were subsurvient to the witness before becoming twisted into their new shape, then isn't it possible that some guardians have already come to this fate? it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that some guardians like the Shadows of Yor were inadvertently worshiping at the metephorical altar of the Witness.
The witness’ creations give me super awesome reaper vibes, but more terrifying
I don’t think the psions have been reshaped twisted and mutilated like the rest were. If you look at the weavers and attendant all their limbs and features are intact and all that’s changed is their armour and that they have darkness powers, they aren’t headless or twisted like the tormentors and husks are. It’s more likely they’re willing servants of the witness and the witness has rewarded Yirixs psions with its power.
The corrupted psions could be clones like the shadow legion. Remember, Yirix also threw in with Calus, meaning she got access to his cloning facilities, and those mindless clones could be exactly what the witness needs to make the dread.
Love your vids byf keep it up!!
I sadly stopped playing Destiny 2 a few years ago now but every now and again, I return to Byf's videos to catch up because at the end of the day, I do very much love this franchise and the world within it.
Words will never be able to express how grateful I am for all you've done and all that you continue to do Byf.
I always remember the Shadowkeep teaser for the Witness, “We are not your friends, we are not your enemies, we are your salvation.”
What is the “salvation” that the Witness wants for us Guardians? I hope some truly messed up and interesting things happens for us Guardians. I’ve been waiting years for that initial meeting to gain more context and development.
We might just get the answer during the expansion. I could see some Guardians being corrupted and turned by the Witness inside the Traveller. :/
Spinfoil Hat Byf! Since the Dark Below and the Taken Kings have we seen such a rich subject for speculation and intrigue (I hope).
This reveal was up there with the Taken’s reveal on Phobos. I hope we get all the lore in regards of the dread and wanting to read all the lore surrounding the new faction.
Meant to say on a different video i think the mysterious voice in the trailer is Sundance
That would be extremely disappointing if true
@@LordTonzilla not arguing but just curious why you feel that way? I am indifferent on being correct or not
i wouldve thought it would be the traveller herself
I wonder if the species Drifter ran into long ago were part of the dread, stasis frozen for one reason or another. He mentioned Nazerec and these light dampening creatures. Nazarec was real, so maybe they are attached to that storyline. I'm truly excited for Final Shape
Love your shorts keep it up 👍
Couple of points.
1: One thing you didn't mention that I was hoping you were was that Osiris stated his belief that the Tormentors were the "Fruits of an unholy alliance between the witness and Calus."
2: It's already been stated that the Witness has no real power or connection to the light, hence it's reliance on using the Traveller to enact the Final Shape. Ergo, it can't create life.
3: While it isnt as clear with Caiatl's empire, Calus at least makes heavy use of very powerful cloning technology.
4: When nezarec was first killed by Savathun, his head was returned to the Witness and preserved in a similar manner as the specimens we see in various pyramid vessels, which is what led to his resurrection when influenced by the Travellers light.
5: As you say, the Witness desires absolute obedience from it's servants.
6: The physiology of each Dread seems to be modified by pyramid tech in some form or fashion, such as the heads of the Tormentors and Grim, or the face of the "Worm" that the Geist is.
Given these points, I can draw two primary conclusions.
1: At least part of the Dread are created using Cabal cloning technology and capped with pyramid tech to create perfectly obedient soldiers based on genetic templates preserved by the Witness and/or it's Disciples. This would explain how Torments are a result of the alliance between the Witness and Calus, and why they dont have true heads.
2: Given that the majority of the dread hadn't appeared until we enter the Traveller, it could be that the Witness required it's light as a means to create them in a more efficient or expedient manner. It could also explain why the Grim don't seem to be based on any other race we've encountered.
Byf: *speculating the background lore of the witness' henchmen*
Bungie: *taking notes *
Take a shot everytime Byf says "disconcerting".
Thanks for the interesting video.
when d2s back byf is back, its a good year, lets go boiz
Origins this, lore that - let’s just all agree that “The Dread” is such a baller name
could the grim be War Beasts? the witness could potentially see perfection in them as digits to hold(guns) and wings to fly. they seem to have matching coloration, a tail, the spikes seem to kind of match the wing design, and the paws seem similar, although reversed (it looks like warbeasts have 4 toes on hind and 3 on front legs)
Though I have stopped playing for now, (waiting for the gameplay reviews for the final shape) it's good to know there is still a community that loves this world. It's a difficult task and the creative teams deserve more credit.
I really like your analysis here. The origin of where the bodies come from is a very interesting aspect to consider.
I know you basically already alluded to it, but the husks' worms are almost exactly like the caretaker's worms from Vow. Could the experimentations of rhulk have been the stepping stone for the husk?
I had the same thought when they first showed off the Subjugators, but I’m not a fan of the psuedo-repeats of enemy design and role. Stasis/Strand Subjugators and Weavers/Attendants just feel kinda redundant to me, I’d honestly prefer there was just one of each pair.
Outside of that, though, the Dread seem really cool. Shame it took three years from the Pyramids showing up to get to them, but hey, I’ll take it.
Hey Byf...can I ask for a HUGE favor. I mean its Massive...
You did "An Entire Storyline and Lore Explained" Video when Shadow Keep was coming out...
Is there anyway you could do one to cover up to the Final Shape?
Im a truck driver you see...and so i dont get to play destiny anymore due to time and such. I've missed seasons and most of the Expansions.
I love the way you tell Lore and The Story itself, which is why I'm asking. The long trips I do across the country make for an excellent time to catch up. I know you have dozens of Videos out but i cant exactly click on new ones...ya know?
Anyway, rambling.
Man, tormentors appearing always got me feeling nervous and anxious, now theres an entire faction of them.
I have an ongoing bet with a friend where I say that Bungie is gonna bring Nezarec back through Osiris. In the season of plunder, we have to go and fetch the relics which in the end turn out to be body parts of Nezarec, and through lore, we learn that all the prior beings that had those relics ended up being corrupted by Nezarec. Well, at the end of that season, we feed Osiris a "Darkness tea" made from those Nezarec bits, so, in my opinion, it would make sense for Osiris to end up being taken over by Nezarec, plus, Bungie has already set a precedent for this, Savathun has already taken him over.
Another point in favor of this theory is that one of the dialogue lines from Nezarec that we hear in the Root of Nightmares raid is " Nezarec: As I've gathered, there was barely anything left of me for the Witness to collect. Hmm... has anyone suffered from the pieces they took? I wonder if I could track them down. Do you happen to know who took them. Consider the information reparations for my untimely death. ", so he also has taken interest in the effect his remains have had.
Plus, the 2nd episode of the Final Shape is called Revenant which is used to refer to someone who returns after death, and just for the sake of supporting this argument, I'm Gonna say that it's referring to Nezarec after possessing Osiris.
Anyway, please tell me what you think, we wagered buying each other The Final Shape Deluxe edition and I really don't wanna pay 140€ in a month, please give me all your opinions on this topic.
IIRC All the way back in the 2014 Gameinformer about Destiny, when showcasing the enemy factions encountered in the game, Acolytes were referred to as Husks at the time before having their names changed
If I may ask what is the song used for the begging of the video whether it's a song made for the chanel or is it an in game song?
I've always seen Destiny 2 the way The Final Shape comes out. It's amazing that we're finally getting a full-fledged new enemy race. I can't wait for June 4th)
Hey Byf, I've found a secret room in the hall of heroes that contains a concordat flag and what looks like a very old map, aswell as d1 cabal shields, swords, a vault (doesn't work) and a few other things.
This channel is like therapy
My thoughts on the Husks is that they are not necessarily Hive, but they are in fact husks, created by the worms-turned-geist themselves made the bodies to be piloted.
If you look at a standard hive worm, it has two sets of ridges going down its back, which the Husk has on its back as well, which are larger. Also the Geists' head armor is more reminiscent of the Worm Gods... I think these are purely Worm beings who no longer need a Hive body
Yeah their core looks like a Worm overloaded with Resonant energy.
They’re Scorn. They look like Fallen Marauders. The Caretaker has the same drip as them
the first time i saw the grim art and in game design my mind immediately went to "IS THAT AN AHAMKARA???" and it still looks so much like it on the way the head opens up and the original concepts shape
Hey Byf have you poked around the new social space at all? I suspect not all is as glamorous as it seems. I found a room with a TON of dead ghosts all piled up, Concordat banners, and some sort of map on the wall. It also has various props from the D1 tower such as the kiosks, FWC, NM, and DO banners, and the old jukebox from the hunters lounge. I also found a freshly dead ghost still radiating light in front of a housecat. While some things, like the faction banners, can be excused by the space being a storage facility/cryptarch vault, I'm really curious about the mounds and mounds of dead ghosts.
The Grim could be a twisted version of the species described in the Collector’s Edition lore that was destroyed and recreated by the Witness?
I think that the dread could definitely be the remnants of the Ecumene. I also think that all of diced up worms and scorn in rhulks pyramid shows us how the witness creates the dread, and that the Librarian in rhulks pyramid was the first dread like creature we’ve seen
I had an idea that would be pretty cool and kind of fitting considering what we know now.
We enter the traveler and are treated to a cutscene of crow being overwhelmed by a large dread enemy, just as crow is about to die, you hear a golden gun activate and the enemy in question is destroyed. Crow looks up to see cayde standing there, cayde then walks over, extends a hand to help crow up.
Obviously this more than likely won't happen unless they somehow give cayde his ghost back but it would be a cool thought because it would fit with crows theme of redemption
So based on everything and what you have described. The influence of the witness is equal to the extent of the reapers from mass effect no? For when the final shape comes. Each of these races and being are preserved in one way or another. A damned but similar echo of what the beings once were before such. I do like the concepts they show for these. Rhulk and his people being kept around in some exact way is very similar to harbinger. The original reaper, took their most influential foe, the protheans, the precursor races to humanity in their universe. And altered them in a mocking way into the husks of what they now are, the collectors. ^^ much love on the content and much love over the speculation that makes us all think♡
Byf giving writer more future lore and story .
There is dialogue on Neomuna that confirms tormentors are clones of Nezerac and that most likely goes for the subjugaters as well
As far as getting explanations for the Tormenters (and whatever the strand guys are called) and what makes up their “infantries”, maybe that was a benefit of the Witness’ alliance with Calus and the shadow legion. Maybe the witness has samples of Rhulk and Nezarec and it’s applying cabal cloning tech to them. Food for thought and in my opinion is supported with tormenters only appearing during and after the Lightfall campaign when the shadow legion is the main force we’re fighting.
My current Grim theory is that they are the Ahslid, the sepcies that Rhulk was supposed to reshape into weapons of the Whitness. We never get a physical description of them, but it would make sence that, even after Rhulks failure, the Whitness would still find use for them if it so wanted to.
14:49 i think the power to change these species is shown off on the emperor calus and how he emerges from pyramid tech with modifications to himself
Woah i just realized that the fighting sequence at the beginning of this video takes place on the old tower. Holy shit.
So the grim I had a thought (bit late to discuss this but here we go) When they shriek their head plate seems to open up in all directions much like the ahamkara when they use the massive laser or roar. On top of that they have extra limbs and only 4 digits on their claws. Now ik they don’t have wings but they do have strange tendrils that could be morphed into wings. Not only that but further evidence could be in the new strike there is ahamkara bones that are being tormented by the witness in some way.
This video made me remember just how imperative the hidden are to the city’s survival. Winning the fight is only half the battle with paracasual beings, and Ikora with the hidden do just as much if not more than we the player do.
My theory for a boss in The Final Shape raid is that it'll be a flying boss who is the last disciple of The Witness.
This theory is based on each new enemy type of the Dread being similar to a race following the Witness. Tormentors are based on Nezarec, with some of them being called 'imprint if Nezarec'. Subjucators are based on Rhulk. Attendants and Weavers are based on Psions who we know defected to the Witness recently. Husks look a lot like Hive, as they have three eyes and the Ghiest that spawns out of them when they die is just the worm then pops out sometimes when you kill a hive acolyte.
So that leaves only the Grim, the flying gun bat. Who is that based on? Must be someone who followed the Witness at some point, as they use each of their disciples as a pattern to make a member of their forces
And we know that there is another disciple from the Lore Book: Inspiral, and the entry within called Cave. Its from the perspective of an unknown disciple and speaks of how it doesn't understand its final shape plan, but will follow anyway. It also references the other known disciples, Rhulk, Nezarec and Savathun.
I'm gonna call that the boss before the final boss of the raid will be a flying boss and the final disciple of the Witness we've yet to meet.
It could be the bat enemies are twisted from a race we haven’t seen yet, maybe it’s from creatures from the lore tab of the Crytarachne’s Facade and their home planet.
I like the idea that the Dread are derived from The Witness twisting the memories The Traveler has of these beings with Darkness so I feel like everything in this video reasonably lines up, but the bats do seem strange even among the rest of the Dread
Imagine she misspoke and meant that they were comparable to Psions, not literally. I'm just happy that they didn't completely scrap their unused race. I don't think we needed another one, but I'm liking what I'm seeing, so far.
Their creation is just like the taken, but more complicated... meaning it should be done without the witness
If that's the case, and the taken were prototypes of the dread... I'm afraid not only Nezarec will try getting control over them
In the cutscene where mithrax described how the eliksni saw saint 14, saint was depicted as more minsterous and having a tail. If that's how the Fallen saw him, perhaps the Grim are a combination of both eliksni and some winged creature with a tail from Riis
The Subjugators do seem a lot like Rhulk with how they bowed at the Ghosts. This could also be a possible explanation as to why the SL were collecting civilians.
Byf look at the wraps and hoods of the Husk. The Caretaker has the same drip. Husks are scorn, they have the same model as Fallen Marauders as well as being another species able to fuse with worms.
he's been mixing and matching pieces of his armies, the geists are organic version of what we saw the caretaker spawning within VOTD, I believe he's taken bits he sees as most practical and weaved them together to create perfect killers for various needs.
for example perhaps Tormentors are shards of Nezerac combined with cabal, large, sluggish, suppression/suppressive, heavy hitter followups.
apply similar thinking to the rest and you can answer them for yourselves.
With a Name like Husk, its likely that the Geist (German for Ghost btw) is the actual living part. Makes sense since the Wormgods are Dark Aligned fully. Its also possible that these Husk are former part of the Lucent hive, since they would be considered traitors, giving the Worm full controll over the body.
why do I feel like the Vex, after so long, became this side quest race that never played out again.
If Rhulk and Nezarec had units fashioned in their likeness, then it's possible that the other Dread units are also modeled in the likeness of other Disciples.
The Grim could be derivatives of a Disciple we've yet to see. It could possibly be that one unnamed Disciple in a previous lore entry who contemplated what the Final Shape actually was. The Attendants and Weavers could allude to the possibility of Yirix becoming a Disciple, thus becoming the base template for these units. On the topic of a possible "Eliksni" unit for the Dread, we technically already got that all the way back in Forsaken with the Scorn. They were initially created by Fikrul, who may ALREADY be in league with the Witness. Whether or not he's an actual Disciple is uncertain, but the Scorn are already part of the Witness' army and have already been seen wielding Pyramid Tech in Savathun's Throne World. As for the Husks, the concept art labels their body as "armor" and the Geist as a "pilot creature" for the Husk. This implies that the actual body of the Husk really is just this empty vessel, and the Geist is the actual creature, much like how a Vex is just white gunk piloting a mech suit except..... INFINITELY more horrifying if your theory about the husks being Hive is correct. However, they also bear a striking resemblance to the Caretaker from Vow, which raises the idea of them being a result of Rhulk's Scorn Worm experiments. A more tragic possibility is that this could be the fate that awaits Xivu Arath now that she's been evicted from her Throne World. Being desperate and angry without a way to collect tithes to feed her worm, she may end up BECOMING a Husk just to survive. She could perform a ritual to transfer her consciousness into her worm and BECOME a Geist while her original body becomes the Husk. Of course, that's assuming she doesn't die and the worm is turned into a Geist by itself. Either way, we may not get a Husk Disciple so much as a Geist Disciple.
Tormentors…”these lumbering beasts”…lmao I love that explanation
Whoooah the Psions got me thinking, what if we end up getting the could-have-been Psion boss from the Planets encounter in RoN, reshaped with pyramid tech and wielding darkness.
That would be sick af
Just a thought byf, do you think the dread well the grim to be more on the point are at all connected to those dark creatures drifter saw on that ice plant he got standed on when he had to modify his ghost?
Do you think the Husks could be Eliksni with Hive worms? They seem like they move very similarly to the Fallen enemies with swords.
I find it interesting that the Husk's concept art refers to the flying bomber as a "pilot creature" and the dead Husk as "armour." Perhaps the Husk's humanoid form is just an exoskeletal suit and the actual Husk creature is the flying thing that pops out when you kill it. Definitely a stretch, but it sort of reminds me a bit of the Vex. The robots we see are just exoskeletal suits whilst the radiolaria fluid inside them make up the actual Vex creature piloting them.
They actually explain where the Tormentors come from in the lightfall campaign. Osiris mentions, after your first encounter with one, that they're made using the cabal cloning technology Calus uses for most of his guards/shadow legion.
Yes. Also, Tormentors are created in the image of Nazarec.
The quote you are thinking of is from the first mission and states that they are “the fruits of an unholy alliance between the witness and Calus”. In one of the patrols Quinn speculated that the tormentors were clones. People seem to be taking Osiris and Quinn’s speculation as fact. It’s vague enough that they could have a different origin.
Nah, Calus turned off his cloning facilities on the Leviathan. Osiris was just using flowery words to say, “These guys are the Witness’s and are hired by Calus”
@@neilanderson3114 Dude for real. They also say, “They’re called Imprints of Nezarec!” But don’t realize only two tormentors have that name while many others are called “Cavum” which means something different.
Yeah no, he does not claim they are clones.
So the witness seems to collect samples of the civilizations it interacts with. You can sort of see this in the cells within any pyramid ship. Thinking back to his precursor species they seemed very clinical and scientific about their work and research I think this aspect stuck with him. In the fantastic Hive story you made wasn't one of the early Hive opponents a species that had avian characteristics? I wonder if this is a sample of it.
I guess we now know exactly what was mentioned in Winterbite's lore tab. The "thing" that attacked the ship and left behind the Glaive. It's most likely a dread, or a Stasis Subjugator to be specific. Since they're the only dread that use a glaive.
One thing to remember is that Osiris called the first tormenter “the fruits of the unholy alliance between the Witness and Calus” and given that the witness had access to the Nezerac’s head for centuries, along with Calus well known use of vat grown clones, the Tormentor’s could be vat grown clones of Nezerac, and the witness could have absolutely have obtained a copy of Rhulk’s DNA from a certain moment…a moment that leads into my other theory
Recall from the twin suns lore that Rhulk was in some sort of pool of black substance that the witnesses called a “metamorphosis” before awakening as the first disciple. Who’s to say the psions weren’t transformed in a similar way?
Hey Byf a thought acurred. What if the husk aren't the hive , but the scorn that where in rulkes pyramid ship. I distinctly remember a lot of scorn. That were in cased in stasis that that looks like worms were being attempted to fuse with them. Maybe the husks were the results of the ralks experiments.