Destiny 2 Lore - If the Witness is defeated, which Disciples will take its power?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- Check out Starforge and grab yourself a new gaming setup today: starforgepc.com/MynameisByf Destiny 2's Lore and Story in the Final Shape will likely lead to the defeat of The Witness. But in the aftermath of that defeat, there will be a significant power vacuum and the question will inevitably arise. Who will replace the Witness? There are several strong contenders such as Nezarec, but the question really boils down to which Disciple will take the lead with the forces of Darkness.
Subscribe to My name is Byf: th-cam.com/users/subscription_c...
Support my lore content on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?ty=h&u=2...
Check out my channel: / mynameisbyf
Follow me on Twitter: / mynameisbyf - เกม
Check out Starforge and grab yourself a new gaming setup today: starforgepc.com/MynameisByf
Hey Byf have you thought of doing a TSLAYP of Palworld. The game has undergone updates to make it more user friendly and new content is on the near horizon. Plus the game represents a positive change in the game development scene prioritizing what players want with no aggressive monetization (the developers are even understanding enough to accept that people will take breaks from their game and that is ok). Supporting this game with some TSLAYP coverage would be amazing to see and no doubt hilarious.
Another question remains. Just how dead is Calus? He was a Disciple of the Witness and fully invested in his power. So the possibility remains that he could return. He certainly does not have the power of Nezarec, but he does have power enough to at least challenge him and dtill commands the full might of the Shadow Legion..
Do you think it would be possible that when we defeat the witness, instead of it dying, it splits back into the precursors?
Randal the Vandal, it's your time to shine.
This is the only right answer
Can we all take a moment to raise a glass and cheers that Randal the Vandal is FINALLY Officially cannon???
Randal got nothing on the great glorbo
@@DredgenStormHe was canon in Rise of Iron, he was a super rare enemy that could spawn in the server room in Wrath of the Machine
Our Guardian’s John Wick story after he tried trapping Archie
It would be a shame if Nezarec would regenerate while my guradian is wearing him.
🤨📸
Ayo
That'd just keep him in stabbing range
Fatalis
Now you become nezarec
The fact that Nezarec was the guy the witness chose to lead the collapse is alone terrifying enough. the fact that Nezarec only failed because Savathun pulled some shenanigans is even more terrifying. THEN the fact that a newly reborn Nezarec was in a severely weakened state and his heartbeat alone was enough to kill some of the strongest guardians ever is the more horrifying thing. Nezarec is just built different
Where can I read more plss
@@RD-qj1co check the destiny 2 lore vault, or the lore books in the collection menu.
@@RD-qj1co the ishtar collective is a really cool website where you can look up basically all of the lore
Yet hes one of the easiest raid bosses ever created
@@OrphanCrippler1I mean that’s how gameplay vs lore typical goes. Rhulk could’ve instakilled us but decided to toy with us
I feel like Xivu is going to do something unthinkable in order to regain her power and in the process become worthy of commanding the dread.
Perhaps. But Lore wise the Hive wouldnt have a reason to exist after the Witness is killed. They're their "Boss". And in such a strongly stratified society as the Hive, killing the very being that was the closest to the "Final Shape" and key to What their society was working for... Theyd be purposeless. Its as Calus said, theyd be offing themselves as their logic is proven faulty without a shadow of a doubt
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 Maybe, but keep in mind that the Hive are sort of a cult. If their worldview collapses, that's a power vacuum. Something (or in this case someone) will most likely try to fill it, it happened with Oryx, so I don't doubt it would happen with the Witness as well. Besides, imagine how the Hive's culture could shift. On one side, Savathun's already convinced some of them to abandon the Witness and embrace the Light, so who's to say that Xivu couldn't brandish some new philosophy, power, or logic as a last effort to reclaim her people's position?
Maybe she follows Savathûn’s example and abandons sword logic to acquire new power. That would be “Heresy” for her, and she is horribly conflicted. Delving into Necromancy, wish magic, maybe she tries to follow Oryx’s footsteps and slay a worm god or all of them (if any still exist - I think they’re in the ascendant plain).
Even without a throne world, she could become more powerful and she might be able to bend her not having a throne world to her benefit. Now she has no safety net so she HAS to fight harder and smarter if she wants to win. Meaning every victory she earns now is MORE impressive. It would be like Hawthorne or Holliday clearing a Legend Lost Sector, or Petra and her Corsairs doing a flawless Raid/Dungeon.
I think we are all miss presuming the fact that the witness power or statute is something that can be attained by another other than it. We all have to consider the fact these are beings created out of the connection between the witnesses resonant power and the actual darkness the result of which being beings like the dread. The allure of not knowing exactly what the witness was was apart of why things worshipped it the way they did oryx worshipping the witness via its worship of the deep
@@redcrystal7xgiven the episode which is hives themed is called 'heresy' makes me think Nokirs more than anything else.
His necromancy could become the new belief system when the sword logic fails them.
The obvious one to take over the Witness's power is Taniks, Kell of Worms
I honestly want some unholy unkillable union of Kegorath and Taniks to emerge.
With a SIVA infused Exo-Randall army.
That would be hell of a fight.
@@soulsurvivor8293 “KELGORNIKS, THE KELL-KNIGHT ABOMINATION, thirsts for your light.” **massive health bar appears**
Guardians: **sigh** “They won’t ever learn…”
**readies Gjallarhorn**
“they were all exceedingly powerful individuals”
“except calus”
IDK man... That final lightfall fight was no raid boss but it was at least a neat challenge... (Propped up by tormentors, endless ad spawns and everyone believing that they needed to use strand without any fragments)
@@MynameisByf I GOT A REPLY FROM BYF WTF IS LIFE BRAH
@@MynameisByfnot to mention the knockback he deals in an arena with nothing on the edges
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 its almost frustrating how grapple can be used to save yourself from falling but the void slam the tormentors do just shuts that off completely
@MynameisByf speaking of that final calus fight, has anyone managed to figure out what calus's last words, "cemali" mean? My theory is that was the name of caiatl's mother but I have zero evidence, it's just a guess
Rhulk would've probably been the only worthy successor to the Witness.
What an incredible saga that might've been...
We were totally robbed.
@@MynameisByf He is one my favorite characters in all of Destiny. He will be missed
@@MynameisByf can you really rob yourself?
@@MynameisByf I feel like the issue with Rhulk was Bungie casually made him way too powerful at creator god-like levels with his involvement with the Hive's inception(something I'm not personally into) , piling on all this importance yet the throw him into the game just so late into things that it all just feels ungodly forced and cheapened. It simultaneously felt larger than life and almost like we were missing a hell of a lot for somebody so strong, yet virtually an unknown to us. To have his entrance into the story also subvert ages of Hive context and history just felt a bit much.
The Disciples system also begins to bring up more questions because the power imbalance between actual Disciples and candidates/newer recruits is way out of whack and it also begins to make one wonder, where was the Witness at earlier points in the story when we had some ungodly big bads who would've infinitely been a better Disciple than Eramis or Calus, why didn't Aksis get a phone call with a weird voice on the other line? On top of that the system begins to crumble when the Witness just ends up doing whatever it wants anyhow. It's very flimsy and arbitrary. Even Nezarec's involvement was a bit railroaded and spoonfed.
Don't get me wrong I do think there is some decent stuff with the tragedy of the Krill being deceived and further stuff how a lot of the Hive society is a big charade scam, but man to just throw Rhulk in so late with things feels weird. I also am not crazy how Bungie can't make up their minds and changed the story again in barely a year's time when Ahsa's story begins to contradict Rhulk's story, and it inadvertently ruins a lot of ancient being lore as the Leviathans go from being a separate thing to now being what Worm Gods used to be. It was such a bizarre tweak this late in the game and if more people followed the lore they would be so irritated how needless a lot of tweaking was.
I understand this game isn't Shakespeare but good grief were there a lot of cool ideas that went nowhere or played out very poorly. I hate how demystified so much has been.
Imagine a madman Rhulk determined to destroy us for defeating the Witness.
Someone else in here already said it, but Im going to say it, too. I think it's Clovis Bray. He's been so suspiciously quiet since Season of the Seraph, and with how big of a deal they made him during that season...that silence is concerning. He made Rasputin to make him feel like he had the power of a God, like he could challenge the Traveler. He always wanted to be a God and to have that potential power just out there? He would be clawing to get ahold of it.
Yea no keep coping buddy
@@EncoreBesti why do you say keep coping?
To add onto this, the lore of the Revision Zero quest revealed that Hakke Heavy Industries and Clovis Bray (the Corp) worked together to create weapons from the Luna Anomaly. In the modern lore, Hakke consistently displays anti-Traveler and darkness aligned interests (lore of Salvager’s Salvo, Judgement of Kelgorath, Hoarfrost-Z). Hakke would probably welcome partnering with Clovis on Europa, given he still has significant resources and power as well as immense scientific knowledge around exos, Stasis, and the Vex.
clovis is dead af. lol.
@r3mxd No, he's not. He's currently restricted to Europa after his bs during Season of the Seraph. So he's just there, sitting and stewing in anger. He is incredibly intelligent and has likely figured some sort of scheme to get out of his limited space
what if instead of the witness it was the freakness instead and instead of witnessing us it got freaky with us
Ayo
The final freak
What if instead of Garden of Salvation, it was the Garden of Freak and the Sanctified mind was the Sanctified Freak
Woah, freaky
@@submachinegun5737 The Freaky Shape
I can easily see Nezarec being the next big bad. Unlike most of our foes, he has no qualms about using Light or Darkness, and he may be the most difficult to be rid of. Not just us, he’d be willing to make Savathun and her brood suffer as well for his defeat that consequentially led to his dismemberment, years ago. He could even Take the Dread, crating terrors that could terrorize his foes. How do you defeat your enemy without conflict? You demoralize them. Something Nezarec is an expert in.
Something to point out is that at least 2/3 members of the dread now that are specifically modelled after a disciple (the tormentors for Nezarec and the Harbingers/Omen for Rhulk). With that in mind and disregarding the attendants and weavers since they’re corrupted psions and POTENTIALLY the husks if they are indeed corrupted hive…consider the GRIM.
If this theory is true…there might be a disciple out there with a design that inspired the grim. A disciple with dragon/bat like wings and tail. Now THAT would be wild to face.
Could you imagine a Darkness-infused Dragon boss fight as the second-to-last raid encounter before the Witness as the final boss in the final shape raid?
And it would actually fly around like Alduin from Skyrim (except with D2 graphics/mechanics) and spew dark fire?? That would go SO hard.
I would also kill for the Witness to be riding it like the Nameless King and his stormdrake, King of the Storm in Dark Souls III, but that’s too much to ask and not really the Witness’s vibe so it wouldn’t happen.
There is ONE flaw with the Husk = Hive theory, and that's the eyes. Yes, the Husks have three-fingered hands and three eyes, and the only other race in Destiny THAT WE KNOW OF that has those features is the Hive. However, we should take into account that the ORIENTATION of their eyes is different. The Hive's eyes are oriented in a triangular pattern, and the same goes for their Worms. The Husks and their Geists, however, both have their eyes in a linear over-under orientation. Now, this doesn't necessarily disprove the theory on its own, but there is another potential distinction that could possibly set the Husks and the Hive apart. In their concept art, the Geist is described as a "pilot creature" while the Husk's body is just described as armor. This could potentially mean that the Husk is a single living thing as opposed to the Hive who are composite organisms.
Long story short, don't rule out the possibly of a Husk Disciple.
I would personally have the next arc after light and dark be about this. New and old threats trying to sweep up the power vacuum left behind. I'd much rather the next episodes be build up of this idea rather than tying up loose threads like echoes having the actual full force of the vex coming to vist, Fikrul regaining all the scorn and maybe some taken stuff, Xivu commiting some heresy to get back on top etc. Maybe throw in some nine or a whole new faction.
I just feel like it'd be the easiest way to start the next arc a full on power grab frenzy from all sides each fighting each other and us for control. And also I just really don't want the episodes to be the end of the scorn or Xivu or whatever echoes is (probably vex)
Maybe paracausal Vex for Echoes? And perhaps Fikrul trying to become akin to a Scorn God?
I thnk archie the robot dog could be a disciple because lately he has gone to some pretty dark areas
I feel like unlike the taken or scorn, the dread and disciples seem completely lost without the witness, as not only does he control them but he gave them purpose. Maybe they'll just follow their last given order, or maybe some disciple will pull a psion flayer-type move and try to finish the job themselves like season of the worthy. only time will tell.
Disciples aren't mindless they are allowed to have free will, and of the dread units we see, its all different races/disciples that have failed or died. Having a dread unit seems to be a punishment or open mockery of whatever they are supposed to be based off of.
Seems like the Taken would be extra lost without the witness. They're only ever kind of officially under the control of other factions at the whim of the witness, right?
@@atomic_wait taken without a leader are like wild animals acting on instinct or last known command.
The Winterbite Disciple is just Messmer the Impaler who got a little lost in the Lands Between
Personally I believe that nezerec will be the person to fill in the witnesses power vacuum. However we wouldn’t see it in the world for some time, I think the story is going to try to take a look more at the nine after this, which has the possibility of introducing a new character that may be able to control the forces of the witness
Yeah Nez will sit in the background and grow his power until you least expect him to return, he knows how to be subtle unlike a lot of our enemies.
A full power nezarec would be nice to fight. We seen him at a fraction of his power in ron.
I’m assuming Clovis Bruh will take the witnesses power given he’s wanted to become a god for so long.
That's my thought too. Clovis has been too quiet since Season of the Seraph. It's suspicious
@@StupidCatLadydefinitely and watch him return with a telesto glaive 😂
@TwiceBubaigawara-dl5ln I swear, if he comes back, I will lose my shit
@@StupidCatLady fr but it only makes sense given how he left while saying “they know”
I posted something similar on Reddit back during Season of the Seraph and I was surprised how many people agreed that Clovis was a good fit as a Disciple. Maybe not as obeisant as Rhulk or as reliant on the Witness as Nezarec (reliant in the sense that the Witness’ presence as an omen of total annihilation thus a potent avenue for Nezarec’s feeding on fear), Clovis exhibits the maniacle narcissism both Rhulk and Calus possessed in order to take up Disciple mantles. And while not explicitly a Disciple, Savathûn served a very Disciple-like role and indeed had as much of a genuine connection to the Witness as Rhulk (which is to say very little but more than everyone else). I could see Clovis’ arrogance and unbridled self-preservation instinct being more than enough for him to at the very least try and sneak back onto the stage as as a devotee of The Witness, if only to supplant it (again, no one really rivals Clovis in narcissism and if he knows Savathûn was able to rebel against The Witness he probably assumes he’s just as capable, regardless if that’s true)
Hear me out: Xivu, in an act of desperation, slays Ur, the Ever-Hunger, dealing a massive blow to Savathun’s source of imbaru and teaching her a new power of the Deep. Then, at Yul’s urging, she slays Eir, Keeper of Order, making her the most powerful Hive god and Yul the sole worm god.
but why?
@@TerrariaGolem well Ur is the weakest of the remaining worm gods, and Xivu would be seeking to find a new source of power after losing her throne world. Slaying a worm god like Oryx before her would make sense, as she continues to idolize him. Additionally, Ur is Savathun’s patron worm, so Xivu has further reason to take it out. Yul was already planning to eat Xol before we slew him, so there is precedent for Yul (already the largest and most powerful worm by far) wanting to take out his competition. Xivu gains more power from the sword logic and possible power from the deep, and Yul becomes _the_ worm god.
@@Nadiki Only issue with the savathun situation is that I don't know if her patron worm or any worm gods have control or sway over a large segment of her forces or even her since the removal of her own worm, and the introduction of lightbearing Hive. Ironically even after a whole expansion regarding lucent hive, we still have next to no really info on the interaction between lucent hive, their worms, their immortality, and the worm gods or any of their relationships/effects towards one another.
I think it could even be Savathûn. Not due to loyalty, but because she knows how to take advantage of the power vacuum that's been left, and can probably use some kind of spell or trick to enthrall the leaderless forces of The Witness
Toland the shattered is the most likely "inheritor" I think.
That is what I was thinking, especially after finding his ghost shell on the moon.
There are actually 2 species from Fundament that were "marked for ascension" by the Witness: the Krill and the Worms.
I wonder if this unknown potential Disciple from Winterbite could potentially be related to the creatures in the Cyrtarachne's Facade lore. Both give off heavy "spider' vibes between the crawling around the hull of the ship and the "large creatures, MANY legs". Additionally both stories take place in or around Neptune, and the creature from Winterbite may have been sent to Neptune from that blast where the C Facade lore takes place.
MASS EFFECT MENTIONED. Glad you like me3 byf, I loved the pve multiplayer in that game
it was so much fun tbh
My first thought when he was talking about possible eliksni disciples was, "Oh no. Not taniks again!"
Tbh the only likely one was eramis but she now is more on our side if any. Tho they hinted Atraks-1 could be alive or atleast have her mind still stored somewhere. If she were to return she is still fueld with eramises propaganda and could easily be manipulated.
Given that the Witness elected to give Calus an existing pyramid ship (Nezarec's, which coincidentally didn't have an active disciple due to his death) instead of making a new one, until we foiled it, and they still didn't make a pyramid, but instead chose to make him an entirely new ship, still gives me reason to believe that every. Single. Other pyramid ship was called for. That's a lot of ships to potentially all have a disciple aboard.
I was thinking about Aunor earlier, and how she might feel as a Praxic member right now. She might see the vanguard’s, especially Ikora’s embrace of the use of darkness as a traitorous act. Remember, she and the Praxic order despise darkness, no matter the source, and wanted to *kill* the drifter. If that’s the case, then her and the more puritanical members of the Praxic order could pose a threat, and want a new government to take over the city. One that may involve Lysander if he could convince Aunor with his silver tongue.
I love how the Worm gods have just been forgotten about even though only 3 of them are dead
I wonder if the winter bite disciple could be what the grim is based off of, there’s nothing really lore wise but seeing as how the tormentors look like nezerac, the subjugators rhulk, husk are hive and savathun was a disciple, and the husk/weaver/attendant look to be based off hive and psions.
The witness has appeared to taken inspiration and what forced he has to make the dread in his own final shape image but we don’t have anything on the brim but what if the disciple that had the winter bite is what the grim are based off of. We know this creature can move/fly through space while swinging a weapon so a set of wings, arms to use a glaive, and legs to walk on the ship. This is a big stretch but could explain what the witness got the idea for the grim from
Like someone else in the comments said i think its possible the Dread either enter a halt or they continue the Witness's ideals, the Witness gave its servants purpose, but not just that, it represents something, an idea. While its possible Nezarec could return (i hope so), he could go about his own thing or continue the Witness's work as he is/was loyal.
The Dread seem similar to the Taken however unlike them i think they could still be unbelievably loyal to the Witness, even in it's death
Exodus Indigo got attacked by a creature with a trident when traveling to Neptune. Are we sure it was not a pissed off Roman god?
There is at least one glaive that remains unexplained, the one Drifter had during (Gambit prime?) Lore. Sometime during Forsaken, I think one of the Joxer stories
Don't forget that Oryx may still be in play. After the Ghost's of the Deep Dungeon, we know that the Hidden have possession of his body, he is likely being kept somewhere in the City, and that it has been reported that his heart still beats.
Not his heart but I’m sure it’s his cells are still alive. Thriving, tho his body is fully dead but no decomposing. Oryx is dead but he’s still somewhat alive but not to a point where he is a threat. During gotd they were trying to force ghosts to revive oryx but all knew of the taken king and what he done and refused to revive a tyrant
I'm pretty sure that unknown disciple wasn't killed by the witness. At the end of the lore entry they basically swear their loyalty to it. Killing them would be unnecessary. Now it is possible that it's the same disciple that attacked the Exodus ship and I would love to see an expansion on that story
I fully believe Nezerac will take the mantle. He isn’t gone completely, he can still return because his original body parts still hold some sentience and could regenerate to his original body. I also believe that there are other disciples that are fighting against some civilizations out in the universe. In the same way the hive were just killing civilizations before coming to the sol system. Those possible other disciples could all come together to continue their own version of the final shape.
The latest trailer has me thinking Zavala might turn into a disciple now😂
If Nezarec returns, hopefully he’ll have more health than a dungeon boss.
Imagine getting 1 phased by Rat King in CONTEST MODE. On par with Crota losing to an Ethernet cable.
A spinfoil idea i have is the taken queen of ravens that is mentioned in books of sorrow makes a bid for power after the witness falls
I have a Saturday tradition of driving around in the country and listening to your uploads and me. And you are on the same wavelength.
If we spin this theory out for a moment, assuming that the glaives are all (outside of the ones we made) owned by a disciple, does that mean Xivu was intending for Kelgorath to be a disciple? Or was she simply borrowing the tradition and making him HER disciple? Obviously Ecliptic Distaff is of our make, or more likely awoken make, so indirectly Mara claiming the guardians as her 'disciples' in the queensguard. The three edges are of OUR make, enhancing our own power. Unexpected resurgence is I suppose borrowing the trope for Trials, making us Osiris' and Saint's disciples. Vexcaliber is... Asher putting a claim on his assistant?
But that leaves Greasy Luck. It's hard to say who this one might be for. Possibly Simmumah? Ecthar? Insane if it was meant for Oryx
After Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, I think there ain’t any left.
Judas, Thomas, Mary... other Mary!
Skira, The Watcher
Questions for Y'all. Do Rhulk and Nezarec have Throneworlds? I dont see why they wouldnt be able to. Mara has one. Toland, Hiraks, they have one too. Its not a Hive only creation. Infact, the Witness/Winnower is the being who explained the concept of one to Oryx. So, i dont see why Nezarec or Rhulk couldnt have one.
Maybe they never got around to it. And remeber Oryx took that knowledge from Aka, the worm of secrets.
So witness told him indirectly
No other diciples dared to take something from the witness.
Nezarec survives on his own without one.
Rhulk may be to based for it
Or they really never knew about such things
Not to our knowledge. Tho if they did we couldn’t have killed them. If someone has a throne world we would be unable to kill them outside of it. I’d say no as rhulk doenst seem like One to think he needs one. Nezarec wouldn’t seem to give a shit about one either.
The heir to the witness is Randall the Vandall.
I remember when we first learned about the witness' original idea for the final shape, i thought that it seemed counterintuitive to recruit nezarec as a disciple. The witness sees the final shape as an end to suffering by putting every being in its intended place and form, yet it employs a being who feeds off suffering to achieve this? But what it really shows is how deep the witness' hatred for the traveller is. It sees the traveller as so antithetical to its goals that its willing to set those goals aside to make sure the traveller and those it empowers suffer. Its probably why nezarec specifically was sent to earth to cause the collapse. Rhulk or even the hive would have been too quick, and not painful enough
Nezarec is an interesting point, but how many recurring/resurrecting villains have we had so far in Destiny? I can think of Taniks, Kelgorath, Savathun, and Eramis. Out of these four, only Taniks has really been given a "last hurrah" in any Raid or Dungeon. Kelgorath is, to my knowledge, out there somewhere, and the most we have seen them is a couple of instances across several seasons. Eramis and Savathun both were beaten at the end of respective campaigns, and notably not outright killed, making their revival all but foretold for many players. I guess we have had some returning characters through spirits and nightmares, such as Riven and Gahlran, but typically Raids seem to be the endpoint of a character's conscious interactions with the world (though Oryx's body played a role for Ghosts of the Deep)
You made an interesting case for Nezarec's return, but from the perspective of Destiny as a game and not with lore, I personally would not put any stock in Bungie reviving any character we have so seemingly vanquished as Nezarec. All of the points regardless were very interesting and well founded - and I guess only time will tell who will try to fill the role of the Witness if and when we defeat them.
Sticky is so underrated, glad he got mentioned.
Imagine savathun helping us defeat the witness just so she can take his place right after, would not be the first middle finger she gives us
7:25 I felt that pain seeing that sliver of health left...
A thing that makes Nezerec even more frightening is that after his resurrections he might have access to both the powers of the light and darkness like us.
We have fought forces using either light or dark, but we haven't really faced any that can use both. (from my recollection at least)
Thanks for mentioning @stickymz! Love your videos dude! 🥰
My bet is either a disciple we havent seen yet, or Nezerac. If Nezerac is the god of pain, survived being killed and chopped up, can he truly be killed?
And if we beat the witness in the new raid, actually hurt him enough to kill him, imagine how much Nezerac could feed of all that. He might grow incredibly strong from the pain of someone like the witness, a being that has never felt pain. Along with all the darkness power he might gain from being next in line for the leader of the dark forces.
Or to play into the Rhulk angle. He could make the first guardian disciple. Someone might happen upon a fragment of his remains, I know he got nuked, then they get infected with his essence. The guardian slowly descends into madness before Rhulk completely takes over and becomes a new/reforged disciple.
I look forward to whatever happens, we're so close to the end.
Glad you liked my theory!
Curve ball but Mara fills the power vacuum, with Eris as a hive god again
Sheesh that was some old rhulk footage. Haven’t seen that melee icon in a hot minute.
Hasn't Toland been waiting to sieze power?
I know Byf did a video on him, Toland hates that we killed the Taken King, and his throne remains empty
Another comment I saw mentioned Clovis Bray.. I reckon both of these are scary thoughts
It’s gonna be Byf’s GOAT, Kelgorath.
Your last points in this video make me think more what if instead the villains taking the darkness forces what if it’s the start of some of Elsie’s dark futures?
I wonder if nezaric could use the crown of sorrow to empower since that thing is filled to the brim with psychic terror and pain which could make him like Eris at the end of season of the witch became the strongest of the hive gods by killing savathun in her hive god form. Him absorbing the crown and all the nightmares on the moon could make him extremely dangerous.
I personally think itll be clovis
He WANTS to be a god and becoing a deciple is a great way to essentially do that
The whole reason Rasputin was created was so clovis could take on the traveler
Then there is the whole Clovis is a psycopath thing
I genuinky think Clovis fits the bill for being the next deciple
I do really feel like the name "Dread" is partially an indicator that we aren't done with Nezarec
What if Toland takes over the witness’s forces after seeing the guardian and Eris rejecting higher powers. He’s probably upset about. I just thought about this theory just based on him being irritated that the guardian didn’t take Oryx’s power and I figured he’d probably feel the same about Eris giving up her seat atop the hive hierarchy in Witch.
There are two more people to consider.
1. Toland. If the mantle of The Witness is up for grabs, there is a possibility he could take it.
2. The Guardian. Whose to say we turn down this power. As far as we know, the Witness is not answering to anyone.
Bungie has described the dread as "ancient worshippers of Nezarec", so it seems incredibly likely to me that he will lead them after final shape
I think it would be more interesting if defeating the witness un-merged the precursors(?) race.
My theory, we will take its place this time instead of letting the power vacuum sit. We learned our lesson with Oryx.
This is the most logical conclusion after the season of the witch and all the eris morne hive stuff. The power vacuum needs to be filled by somebody, and this time we learned it needs to be us in order to stop all of this and the game. WE are the final shape.
I don't just think you're right about Xivu Arath, I think she's going to turncoat like Savathun did. "What is this feeling? I do not want it."
The issue with xivu is that the whole process was really vague, we had no idea such thing was even possible, so my guess is that she is still on the list (maybe not because of the episode that hints at her) but not because of what eris did because it was a completely new mechanic and she might be able to undo it with ease.
"It's simple. We, uh, we kill the disciples" - The Joker, probably
honestly I'm not entirely sure the Dread aren't cybernetic, their helmets remind me of pyramid tech. just my two cents, good video
Well if it ends up being clovis i hope he's ready to be sitting in my vault forever once he gets turned into a exotic weapon or armor
This stuff is so interesting. Sort of speculation that reminds me of the d1 days
I think another really good guess would be Savathun. She's got plans grander than we've ever known, has been involved with the witness for a long time although not allied to it, if anyone would be able to swoop in at just the right time and take that power, itd be her. I seriously doubt she'd follow the philosophies or anything in witness's place, but i'm confident she would be interested in the personal gain. She may have been planning this since the beginning.
Byf talking about Mass Effect sent me to a new level of joy. I’ve always felt like there’s overlap in Destiny and Mass Effect and I’m glad to see someone at least talk about them in the same breathe
The speculation of races that have been touched by the traveler can't be an exclusive, as the traveler never traveled to Torobatl yet we got Calus. Just a thought. 😊 Great vid, more of these would be loved.
By the name alone, it seems obvious that the Dread would be Nez's personal army.
We know a couple members of the dread are based on disciples like tormentors and Subjugators, and possibly the husk (assuming Xivu Arath is a disciple). Maybe the grin is based on one of those unknown disciples?
Xivu likely won't be killed anytime soon. Something will get resolved in "Heresy", but she won't die unless they introduce another power player in the cosmos such as she is right now. Nezarec would be another good contender, but I'm not sure he cares. Xivu does, she still very much believes in the Sword Logic and would want vengeance. Nezzy just doesn't care. I'm not even sure he cares if he has a body or not. He just IS.
My money is on Brother Vance as the next disciple.
or Randal the Vandal
It would be insane to see Cayde-6 come back as Cayde-7 as a disciple of the witness
I have a strange feeling that Zavalla will be tempted by the Witness
talking about the "corrupted enemies made by fallen comrades" . What if they made a corrupted guardian? as a named enemy for a mission on the campaign or somewhere. would be fun.
It's gonna be our boy, Kelgorath.
I hope the Vex get some time in the spotlight honestly.
I understand it is harder to make a faction with no individuality as interesting as threats like Savathun, but with the defeat of the witness and basically all other major factions at the weakest they've been in a long time it may be the perfect time to explore them more. I wouldn't be surprise to see a reunification/assimilation with the sol divisive once the object of their worship gets taken down
I love the glaive theory... never realised that glaive were like rankings
It would be interesting if it was our Gaurdian and then Destiny 3 is us hunting down Gaurdians like in the Warlord era.
We are fighting commando Guinu while freeza is getting in shape
Nezarec will probably be the initial commander of the dread considering that he’s the most intact disciple we know of, but I feel like more disciples will pop up over time and fight one another for control of the dread. I can imagine Rhulk absolutely tearing into Nezarec over his lack of discipline.
Not really related to the exact topic but have you ever noticed that all the disciples have titles that are fairly unique except for Calus
Rhulk, the First Disciple
Nezarec, the Final God of Pain
Oryx, the Taken King
Savathun, the Witch Queen
Xivu Arath, the God of War
Then there's Calus who is just called the disciple. The Witness probably never actually intended to consider Calus as an actual disciple of its, but probably let him think so to use him as a tool. Also as a little additional thing even Xivu is just a "well this is all we got left" disciple since the Witness originally wanted Savathun (although Oryx exceeded expectations and also became one of sorts)
Thanks Starforge
It will be really intresting to see who takes control of the dred and taken , possibly shadow cabal after the final shape
Shadow legion are just as mindless as the dread and taken, but it might be high ranking ones from the remnants of calus’ loyalist that weren’t cloned that could take control
@@submachinegun5737 thats what iv been thinking but we dont know anyone that is high ranking and still alive or at least i dont think so
I feel like it's very likely that the Witness's forces will splinter. We've got more than enough potential individual leaders, people beholden to the Witness with their own individual ideals and motives, it feels like a good direction to go narratively too since we've been focused on the influence of this big overarching threat for such a long time. We've seen the singular threats that the Darkness can produce, we've seen the singular vision of the Witness, what happens when the various forces that were previously tied down to this god-like being fracture? What happens when that singular uniting vision is replaced with the chaos of many?
I could see Eramis taking the remaining dark-aligned Fallen, Nezarek could take the Shadow Legion since that's what he had access to in Root of Nightmares, maybe a desperate Rhulk reviving in an almost zombie-like state and claiming most of the remaining Scorn, Xivu Arath could take the Hive, and the Dread and Taken could be used by two other disciples, either ones we already know about or new ones.
I think it could be the hive god of war, Xivu Arath since she is also technically under the influence of darkness. This could also be connected with the episode we will get about the hive, but who knows.
Imagine a scenario like this: we defeat the witness and somehow survive it, all the remaining forces of the witness are momentarily dumbfounded then turn to the guardian and kneel, seeing them as the true successor of the final shape, the NEW final shape.
I imagine Xivu Arath to be the more “hard-headed” of her siblings. So it’s possible she has retreated, but considering her state of mind when we last saw her, I’d expect her to do something crazy and dedicate everything to the Witness so it gives her the power she needs. I’d bet she’d fall for a Faustian bargain under the circumstances.
6:16 I'd also encourage everyone to try Mass Effect 3. However the ending is still something many people aren't happy with. They certainly made it much better with the Extended Cut DLC and expanded it via Story DLC, but there are still issues with the ending that would require a complete rewrite and is not just "patched" away.
I’m worried about Toland not sure if he will be an ally but I feel like with so much power just not being claimed he might find a way to
Theories and idea for future content. :)
Sorry for length. Just thorough with my thoughts is all.)
Witness's people were able to combine because the entity (of) The Deep told them how, and were manipulated with ideals of a final shape. But the reality is that the true goal is to allow the Deep a means to enter the universe.
The Ascendant Plane was the Garden. The Traveler and Veil were a type of dimensional terraformer engine to create a new realm outside of it, forming it through letting aspects of the Garden flow from it to the new realm. The disaster that happened was the Traveler and Veil breaking apart. It caused the Big Bang of our universe, but also imploded into the Garden, causing mayhem and creating a bunch of pocket universes with varying aspects and laws within each.
The Deep was a realm without matter, just a massless swarm of consciousnesses swept out of the Garden by the implosion. Over time they became something similar to the Witness just without physical form. They wouldn't be able to survive in our universe due to the laws their pocket universe contains. Using the Traveler/Pale Heart and Darkness/Veil together, they could alter and create a means to cross over.
The Distributary was a realm/pocket universe of material, but without conscious minds to inspire form, laws and aspects. When humans were pushed into it via the Light/Darkness explosion during collapse, it introduced consciousnesses to do so, with Mara being the first and the conduit in which the Distributary's laws and aspects were affectively based.
When Mara left, the power she has was no longer being used tapped into to keep those aspects steady and consistent. While there, she was never able to use her full power. But by leaving, she didn't have that drain and could continue building it and that's why she's so powerful.
The Distributary though, is dealing with the havoc of the Universe's laws beginning to warp without Mara's presence. Resources are dwindling and civil wars have been waged.
While the Hunt was happening, Ahamkara caught a wish of an Awoken wanting to see home and opened a temporary portal. Several Ahamkara entered that portal and hid in the Distributary to avoid being killed. They've been using wish magic to stabilize and expand areas for civil war factions. Mara is still respected by some, but for others she's hated for being the liar who caused the beginning of the Distributary's collapse by leaving with her followers. They believe the collapse was a consequence of what they did to leave, not her, herself, leaving. They have a grudge and when we go into the Distributary, after Taken forces have pushed In and opened paths for other factions to get in, we'll have to fight new Awoken soldiers that have been corrupted by darkness on their turf. Taranis and Riven's offspring will provide wish magic protection against the Distributary's Ahamkara and their loyal awoken factions while we seek to take them out.
I personally subscribe to the possibility of a Disciple Civil War, which could lead to all sorts of interesting plot points. Some Disciples may be at each other's throats while others may start making alliances. Hell, maybe we'll see a Disciple try to get rid of the competition by ratting them out to us in the hopes of getting on our good side.
As for the "Disciple" that attacked the Exodus Indigo in the Winterbite Loretab, it's possible. The ornate design of the weapon itself does look like something that would be reserved for a high ranking individual such as a Disciple, but it's also possible it could've just been a teaser for the Subjugators, which are units designed after Rhulk that also wield glaives. I'll even go as far as to say that since Winterbite is a Stasis Glaive, then whatever attacked the Indigo could've just been a particularly high ranking Harbinger Subjugator, like an "Imprint of Rhulk" or something like that.
Back to the topic of potential successors to the Witness, it's possible that Yirix could also attempt to fill in that role. Judging by her fanatical loyalty to the Witness and the presence of the Attendants and Weavers amongst the Dread's ranks, it's possible she could've become a Disciple herself.
Oryx: the final shape, its a sword isn't it
The witness: close but no. It's a glaive
Oryx: