He's also literally everywhere in Bfa, taking the spotlight out of alot of characters. Like he is in both BoD and Darkshore cinematics. He's in Nazjatar intro cinematic. He's the narrator for most Horde wqs in Bfa. He went from being a minor character to suddenly being the most involved and used character on the Horde side.
@@tinyjazzhands2074 Difference being. is that Khadgar isn't a minor character introduced in WoW only. He's been one of the major npcs in Warcraft since the rts warcraft 1/2. He's also a major character in in WoD. He's also featured in a lot of novels.
@@Mysteriosf2ptwink completely missing my point. The point is that the devs tends to take a handful of characters and then uses them for basically everything when telling a story.
While I get that devs take a handful of characters and use them for the story. My point is that Nathanos has overtaken the spotlight over characters that deserve it like Garona, Lillian, Rexxar, Eitrigg. Even new characters like King Rastakhan and his daughter. He's extremely overused. I mean he's represented the Horde in every single zone in Bfa, he's the face the Horde sees in Darkshore. He's the face of the Horde in Nazjatar. He's the face of the Horde in the world quests throughout Bfa. He's even in the raids in the Jaina encounter, as well as the raid cinematics. He's even the narrator for the Horde in Siege of Boralus dungeon.
I remember liking him as a character back in Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK when I played. i remember going to the plaguelands and being like oh cool, this is a horde-allied character, but clearly strong enough that he has a backstory, which put him on the level of characters like Rexxar. but I can see how he is a 1-dimensional plot-armor servant to Sylvanas now and that's why it's just irritating now
@@sves_16 and he loved her too, seeing Sylvanas and a few words from her made him break free of the lich king. There was a part in dark mirror when Nathanos was thinking: in life she was beautiful, but now she is a goddess.
I liked Nathanos in Legion especially when he gives the player character an indirect compliment along the lines of "finally someone competent arrives". I had hoped they had kept exploring that relationship about him being grumpy about everything but starting to trust and appreciating the player due to us meeting his expectations and scoring results.
I think the problem is that Nathanos didn't really change much. While it makes sense that he would treat you like crap in vanilla, in doesn't in retail. In vanilla, you where a random adventurer while he was a champion to his people. In retail this dynamic doesn't work because your character is the equivalent of god.
@@cultistofdarkness1661 You take the game engine as lore, because you cannot really do that. In Legion my Warlock wielded an artifact powerful enough to rip a tear into reality itself, capable of destroying entire planets...yet she got killed by a few wolves because I didn't pay attention. Or for example my warrior who fought against a powerful pitlord and won the battle and only got killed because the pitlord essentially used a suicide bomb. And he did so without any artifact weapon. Or you know let's take a look at Stormheim: Greymane crushed Nathanos and nearly killed him. During the last seconds of the fight on the airship you can see Greymane jumping on Nathanos and him using the /cover emote.
@@CecilyThanador what? Im only talking about the player character being less powerful than Nathanos. In legion your weapon was powerful not you. Nathanos was weaker than greymane in legion, yes but so were you. It seems like you are taking game engine as lore
@@cultistofdarkness1661 You were the one talking about how Nathanos is more powerful, yet your only prove is a singular quest where he serves as a mini boss...the fact that even a murloc can serve as a mini boss doesn't prove your point at all.
4:30 Best case would be dynamic writing where the npcs recognize what the character actually did when it was current content, it would increase the immersion a lot in pretty much all cases and would be a cool nostalgia trip - I dont want to be the champion of azeroth on every single character, it needs to feel earned and like something special. But yeah, that would actually require great writing and a lot more dialogue... Stuff like this would make me respect blizz more, going the extra mile
They could do it through the achievement/title system. It wouldn't necessarily take a ton more effort, just have some NPCs look for specific achievements and/or titles, and incorporate them in.
One of my favorite things in shadowlands was lady vashj calling out my tbc era character for being the one who killed her. And that was an incredibly minor change that's easily implemented.
I like Nathanos but the Tyrande thing really pissed me off. Here’s how I would change it: Tyrande royally wrecks Nathanos. Suddenly the Valkyr arrive and grab his corpse (and the Horde Champion.) Back at camp Sylvanas uses one of her valkyr to save him. Tyrande looks good, Nathanos looks good, Sylvanas looks slightly more nuanced. Everyone would win and the end result is almost exactly the same. Blizzard hire me plz
Honestly I'd have him escape but pulling a FUCKton of shit to do that. I'm talking a full-on artillery strike on her position which she holds off - especially if it's aimed at Malfurion instead. Nathanos is good at one thing, which is pretty much running away. Though yeah, Sylvanas having to show some concern for her beloved servant would be interesting regardless.
Nathanos was fun when he was a rare treat in small doses. When he and Sylvanas got shoved into the spotlight that rate treat became the entire meal. Even chocolate gets overwhelming when it's all you have to eat. Edit: As to the whole "people say they don't want to be the big goddamn heroes" thing? There's a difference between being tired of being constantly fawned over by everyone and being constantly treated like shit. Nathanos falls, for me at least, way too far on the wrong side of that.
I never liked in Forsaken that they hardly ever bear the consequences of their actions. Nathanos and Sylvanas are the greatest examples of this. You can see and feel how writers want these two never looks like losers. Even after losing to Tyrande, they were the last ones who smile. You can't like someone who gets away with everything.
Night elves got away with summoning Sargeras and starting the whole legion invasion, simply in their pursuit for power. They got away with enslaving the trolls and taking their territories from them, making trolls obey them out of fear of being exterminated. Night elves got away with using the products of Illidan’s doing while throwing him in prison for creating it in the first place without moral condemnation. It’s only to their arrogance and shortsight that we got Allies like Tauren, Nightborne, blood elves. Ah yeah, Tyrande did whiplash at us while we were saving her precious Malfurion and did many rush and hot blooded decisions instead of being “wise” like her ancient race should be. Not to mention their xenophobia in Warcraft 3 where night elves were undermining both Horde and Alliance attempts at defeating the legion
@@liquorzh First of all, night elfs didn't got away from punishment, their vast Empire was destroyed, their capital was in the middle of an implosion! If that's not the consequences of your actions I don't know what is. Secondly, seeing what destruction they committed, they completely banned Arcane from society. See, they're one of the few races that learned from their mistakes. Also Azshara and Highborne summoned the Legion. It was Lowborn night elves who saved the world by starting a rebellion. Yes, night elves opened the way for Sargeras, but now those night elves are Satyrs and Naga. Once again, the guilty didn't escape from consequences. You have to be really blind to put them all in one bag. As for the new well of eternity, maybe they got nice bonuses but only to protect the well, its their job not reward. About NE Xenophobia, blood elves haven't stopped using the power that destroyed the world a few days ago so Im supried Malf didnt kill them, I'm sure that BE chose to leave themselves so I don't know why you show them as example. Nightborne literally locked themselves in a bubble while rest of NE struggled to save this world. But I agree with you about the tauren and wc3. Tyrande should help Cairne and investigate the situation of humans and orcs first.
did you see the BFA trailer?? what happen to undercity?? an undead farted so hard that destroyed the city and still uneder a massive gaz cloud??? also forseken where hunted by scarlet crusade, the only horde major city that got destroyed in a war. they were born with hate, they fight with hate and because that they suffer a lot of consequences
He's a fanatic in the cult of Sylvanas that's to be certain, but there's reasons and other things going on. She saved him from his enslavment to the lich king and made him the ranger he is. He does question her judgement at times, and he does seem to actually care about his people. He was appalled and shocked by Sylvanas's orders to fire upon her own people who were willingly trying to return to her during the meeting with the humans at the wall between Hillsbad and Arathi. He saw nothing wrong with the desolate counsel wanting to see their living relatives and approved of letting them do so. He was the one who persuaded Sylvanas to allow the meeting at the wall which she was reluctant to. He was even more shocked and stood wide eyed as Teldrassil burned. He loved his cousin Stephen like a little brother or son and was even proud of him becoming a paladin despite Stephen hating his guts and insulting him. He never hated Stephen and felt guilt for letting Sylvanas kill him in the ritual that restored Nathanos's body. Stephen was a member of the Argent Dawn and had attacked Forsaken which lead to his capture by Sylvanas's dark rangers, or so Sylvanas told Nathanos. And, who can forget the most memorable moment of all: Nathanos playing fetch with one of his blighthounds and telling the diseased mutt that he's a good boy?
Also, he hates the alliance not just because it is the will of his queen but because he genuinely feels betrayed by them for turning on the Forsaken when they left the Scourge. As he puts it, they hunted him and his people, so he swore to hunt them in turn. He loves killing alliance. He relishes his kills in his hatred and quest for revenge. He honestly wanted the Horde to succeed.in their war, at least at first.
He lived in Lordereon during his time as Ranger Lord of the Farstriders because he couldn't stand the rudeness from the high elves towards him for being a human and the rumors that spread. He worried that his promotion would affect Sylvanas's support amongst her people, but he also never wanted the rank. He mentions in the Dark mirror that he would have been happy just working the land on his family's stead. He was proud of his home and wanted a quiet life at that time although duty and his love of Sylvanas kept him from it in the end.
When you do quests for him in EPL, when you complete the very last quest, he's finally a little nicer to you, saying you've earned a spot amongst his champions
I can't wait to fight Nathanos in Shadowlands, then have him shout "ENOUGH", stun my entire party for 30 seconds while monologuing about my foolishness, then running off to become a boss in a 5-man dungeon.
@@HouseVinstor Really? It's the other way around, mate. The rest of the world wears plot armour so both Tyrande and Malfurion has less pwoer and doesn't do shit most of the time. If they were playing on the level the lore has them, Tyrande would have probably wiped out the horde. And that's not even being denied in this video, per se.
I hate him because of his plot armor, that and the way he is showed into almost every single cinematic this expansion. He just has so much spotlight that the self-insert theory is something I could actually believe.
Meanwhile, Saurfang, Sylvanas, Anduin, and Jaina have had more cinematics and ones solely dedicated to them. The only short story blizz has written about him is only three pages long. That's nothing compared to the spotlight given to the others. Nathanos hasn't been given the royal treatment. He's just Sylvanas's loyal champion. As she takes more of a major role, so does he in service to her. His involvement just empathizes Sylvanas's involvement when she can't be wandering around as warchief. Honestly, we should have seen more of him than we did in the past just on classic lore alone.
"almost every single cinematic" Are you high? Most of the cinematics had to do with Saurfang. Even the in-game ones rarely have Nathanos. Tf r u talkin' bout? He's in Darkshore, the rescue of Talanji, and opening to Nazj'atar, and only one of those have him as a "focus" (Darkshore seriously focuses on Night Elf character development, not Nathanos)
The problem with Nathanos talking down to players now is the fact that by this point player characters have taken on the likes of The LIch King, Deathwing, Lei Shen, C'Thun, Yogg Saron, Kil'jaden, Argus, and so on. It shows massive hubris to talk down to and belittle those who have faced literal god-like beings and not only survived, but won. Back in vanilla player characters were small time. Most probably hadn't even fought Ragnaros when they met Nathanos. Thus him talking down to them like they were lowly was less irritating because what he said wasn't far from the truth.
Just because we are skilled fighters and basicaly god-killers doesn't mean we are a bunch of idiots icompetent of war. In fact, the fact that we are those all-mighty god-killing machines of looting might be his biggest problem now. I am now going to use not really a good analogy, it's driven to extreme to prove the point, but hear me out. Imagine you have 2 generals. One general is a loyal war leader of his ruler. Other general basically works for whoever pays the most (which we do), has a metric fuckton of medals and some nuclear weapons in his arsenal and ego of a size of Sargeras'... sword. The medaled general is supposed to take orders from the loyal one who doesn't have all these "honors", "riches" and "power". Of-Fing-course the non-medaled general would talk smack to that overglorified arogant piece of shit so he would at least fucking listen and do what he is supposed to do. All in all, I am one of the few who likes Nathanos and being called "pathetic idiot". In the same like, if I hear Magni call me "champion" one more time, I am joining the Burning Legion.
@@chaoslance4959 You're right that wasn't a very good analogy. No way in hell would that decorated General be taking orders from the un-decorated one. Considering those medals would come with promotions. The decorated General would most likely be a 5-star, while the un-decorated General would be (at most) a 3-star. So the un-docorated General would shut the hell up and be the one following orders, or be put in their place. Something I hope we do to Nathanos in Shadowlands. Fing worthless traitor.
@@Gruntman1234 You just gave me an idea. PvP event between ppl hating Nathanos and ppl likeing him. The overall kill-count would determine his faith. Player agency at it's finest
@@Gruntman1234 Funny thing, officers can put in for themselves to get some medals like the bronze and silver stars. We had several officers in S2 and S3 do just that from my deployment. And getting medals or other "awards" can be due to a popularity thing, I've seen people get promoted that really shouldn't be leaders, but they were really liked and kissed a lot of ass so between that and having the promotion points they got it. Decorations on a soldier/marine/sailor/airmen etc doesn't always mean they are the most experienced. You can have someone that his highly decorated, yet they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and also the reverse where they have very few decorations of any kind but they are incredible leaders, but they might speak their mind and therefor they get looked over for awards and medals because the higher ups don't like because they don't take shit from anyone. If the situation is not ideal for their troops they'll tell it how it is, instead of saying yes sir/ma'am. TLDR is that decorations don't define the military prowess of someone, there are several factors for being "awarded" and several for not.
Chaoslance most players hate him though. It'd be like 1v25 so you'd have 25 people zerging down one guy. Could be the best WoW player in existence. Nothing is saving him from that 25 man zerg.
You're missing the point in something. Nathanos we see nowadays is NOT equal to Nathanos back in Vanilla. Yes, these two Nathanoses have their rude attitude to player char in common. But, if you read all the quests involving Nathanos in Vanilla, then you may actually notice two things: first, aside of being salty he actually demonstrates some bio and some backstory, and second, his attitude to player actually changes (slowly, but still) quest by quest as player proves self to him and in the end (after the quests into Stratholme) he even salutes with respect, or smth like that. What do we see in modern Nathanos, on the other hand? We see the thing that folks on TvTropes call "Flanderization": his most known trait - being salty - got taken up to eleven and frozen at that state (no matter what players do and how they prove worthy again and again), and all the other traits were practically forgotten. It gets repetitive and, as a result of that, annoying, especially considering how much "TV time" he takes now. On top of that, one thing is when Nathanos behaves like that as a field commander in badlands, and completely other thing is when he keeps shitting left and right after being appointed to a such high rank. While seeing this attitude to my char all I want now is to ask him: "Dude, what the F is your problem? What have actually you done to deserve your current rank and behave like you're a F-ing prince? Have you proven yourself as a veteran of multiple wars and effective commander, like Saurfang? Have you done some heroic deeds for the Horde, like Rexxar? Or, maybe, have you shown bravery and determination to stand up and fight against evil, even when it comes to disobeying your warchief, like Baine or Vol'jin? No. You got promoted to "the second man in the Horde" just thanks to Sylvanas, who considers you her favourite, and you're nothing without her. So stop barking and remember that you are such big man just as long as your mistress is in charge, while I am the hero of the Horde and Azeroth and will remain him no matter what happens tomorrow".
I was going to say "The reason people don't like him anymore is because he shows no personality beyond those two traits" but you worded it a lot better. No one's asking for Nathanos to kiss our feet, we just want him to display any sort of emotion outside "Sylvanas' #1 Simp" and "lol fuck you _hero_ you ain't shit." I'd honestly take a "I-It's not like I respect you or anything, h-hero!!" Nathanos over what we got. At least tsunderes have character growth.
Like his master he is a victim of the poor direction they took the writing in later WoW. He went from "A human so good he won the respect of the ranger general to join the order" to "Guy Syl liked and has wrapped around her fingers" Almost makes that achievement kinda seem like nepotism. He is a pure dog of the banshee queen now with unreasonable amounts of plot armor.
It isn't poor writing; you just don't like how the story isn't lining up with your headcanon. EVERYONE that says it's poor writing just has headcanon that isn't being fulfilled.
@@benp9793 Blizzard hasn't done good writing for their games in a long time. I don't know how you can brush it off as just "not lining up with head canon". They don't do larger narratives well or plan ahead well. Part of it is the nature of writing for an MMO but the constant retcons and use of rule of cool along with "writing for the moment" has substantially hurt their larger narratives. They can do small quest chain or zone storylines fine but the big stuff they flop at. Its been a complaint for a long time with WoW.
Aerensianic "for a long time" dude... the story has been progressing for over a decade. MoP and WoD (yes, the meme expansions, were so crucial for lore, its why its there). just because YOU dont like the way the story has taken a turn, doesnt mean its shit writing.
I’d rather be treated with skepticism and work my way towards being trusted and valued as a hero. I don’t want instant and constant praise, nor do I want instant and constant scorn. I want the actions of my character to make an impression on the characters I interact with throughout the story, not just have all my efforts get the EXACT same response to my every move. That too much to ask for?
There's a difference between "I want to just be an adventurer again" and "I want to be belittled constantly by some a-hole NPC". People saying they want the former are not disproven because they dislike the latter.
Reading the short story 'Dark Mirror' would help a lot of people understand Nathanos. The most important thing to know about him is that he doesn't care about anything except his loyalty to Sylvanas. It says he really wants them both to just die so they can "endure damnation together" but his loyalty to her keeps him going with whatever she wants him to do.
4:02 "Actually players who dislike being the chosen one secretly like being the chosen one and disliking the new Nathanos proves this!" like how the hell does one come to that conclusion?
If they complain about being the centre of attention while sill complaining Nathanos is rude to the champion, then that someone doesn't know what to complain about. The logical mistake is conflating both opinions which are fairly vocal amd might not belong to the same groups of people
That’s simple: he stopped thinking with his upper head and started to think only with his lower head. Also people don’t really like Sylvannas and her necrophiliac fanboys and Nathanos is their personification in game :V
that's complete bullshit. Nathanos isn't motivated by love. if anything it's obvious that he has so much respect for sylvanas that he doesn't even see the affection she gives him. in fact i think nathanos is the only person she shows ANY signs of affection whatsoever
I think the self-insert hate comes not necessarily from him being some writer's actual self-insert, but rather that everything together makes him come across as some writer's self insert. The whole issue of his derisive character isn't that he insults you, but his elevated position with recent events conflicts with how the narrative decides to treat you, the player, in the grand scheme of things. When you were treated as just some schmuck who was so wet behind the ears that Nathanos even sparing the time for you did seem above his pay grade for someone of his history, it made sense in the narrative. But that time has long since passed. Whether you agree with the decision or not, your character is recognized for your accomplishments by the world itself, and even if there are npcs who are still lore-wise stronger and more important than you, they recognize that you aren't just some random adventurer, but someone who has fought demons, gods, and even planets themselves. Nathanos still treating you like dirt is fine, it is in line with his character and may be construed as him attempting to maintain his ego and elevate his own sense of worth by trying to put you and others down. It could even be a sense of character growth that he is being put into a higher position, yet his growth in power doesn't reflect it, and his insecurities about the situation - and his need to prove himself to the one he had sworn himself to - are coming out through behavior like that. Now THAT would be something fitting the narrative, and could be something that could be touched on, and later addressed with Nathanos slowly doing more to become stronger. I would be fine with some of the shit Nathanos has done, if I've seen over the course of the story things that explain how he has grown in power (something that I also call bullshit with Sylvanas, mind you. Starting to see a theme here.) Instead, the narrative is warped so that Nathanos is somehow, with little explanation, not just elevated in terms of governmental power through being the Warchief's right-hand man, but somehow has become powerful enough to compete on the level of people like Tyrande. I could accept Nathanos getting the drop on someone like Genn or Anduin or anyone else, but Tyrande (and Malfurion) are without a doubt among the top 5 heavy hitters the alliance has as individual powers. Sylvanas squeaking out a win is something I could believe with the way it was portrayed, but Nathanos? The only way I see even a draw happening (with the way it is portrayed in the game, not necessarily at all) is with the factual reality of the Horde player character backing up Nathanos due to the player's own track record, and that just opens a whole new can of worms. And this is not just normal Tyrande, but a Tyrande who basically decided to go full warrior and stop taking a passive role. So yeah, the whole issue is that Nathanos is being written with the same issues as if he was a self-insert character for the purposes of wish fulfillment, because the narrative of the story is being warped to fit him, rather than the other way around, and it is starting to aggravate people. It is one thing if he seems like he is trying to make himself seem bigger than he actually is, and I wouldn't even mind if care was taken to show his growth of power in a way the players can digest with any modicum of believability. When the writing begins to back up that exaggerated self-importance, and goes from a to c without showing b, it goes from just a character with an inflated sense of worth to a character who ruins the immersion of the players and the story.
@Trash Person He's definately written with more obvious writer projection than the rest of that guys work. Jaina has the same problem with Christie Golden.
@@shadowgamer4306 It means the author/writer wishes to be the character, and writes them, and projects onto them accordingly. In fanfiction it is called a "May Sue" character.
i like nathanos character he is a breath of fresh air alongside the honor, this honor, that in the horde. he hates working with you as much as you might hate working with him. he still does his job of helping you but he does not do it with a smile and i like that. is diferent he just send you to kill stuff because he was ordered to do it. we need more unlikeable characters. it helps to make the likeable characters more likeable in comparison.
it also makes it believable. I can't stand wow nowadays alot because of the poor writing you are pointing out. Everything is fucking epic that nothing is epic anymore.
He doesn't just send you to kill things because he was ordered to. Sometimes he just hates things and wants them dead like all those bats in the Plaguelands. Sure, they pose a threat to deploying groups against the scourge and his missions as a minor hindrance, but his main motivation was his utter hatred of those "winged demons" as he put it. He really hated bats back then before he got that bat mount. I'm guessing Sylvanas had to force him to ride it. He also really hates birds. He also had players kill an absurd amount scourge to get enough living rot within 5 minutes just to feed it to his dogs. The rot expires in that time period. Why did he need to feed his blighthounds rot? He never explains. It might be to keep them alive without succumbing to the plague; it might be to train them to like the taste of rotting flesh in their attacks against the Scourge; it might be just to mess with the player and to see what would happen. This is the same guy who had the player send birds to poop on pirates as "psychological warfare". He wanted the murlocs in darkshore dead because he was tired of their gibbering. He just enjoys the suffering of those he hates and removing annoyances. As he says, duty does not need interfere with savoring a victory, after he has you murder things. He's the ultimate asshole, and it's great.
nathanos has always been a fav of mine i mained hunter from bc to my current 'break' of wow, i still love him cuz hes just blunt and loyal. great vids keep em up
Yet he still thinks that you, Azeroth's chosen, is nothing more than a piece of trash. More than easily disposed of. And he would _gladly_ do it, if given the word. He doesn't give a flying rat's ass about you. Neither does Sylvanas.
He does just feel like an oc for someone who loves the corpse lady and really wanted an edgy character that live to serve her. Not that he actually is, but his whole character now feels like he is.
I just want a minor character (itd be nice if it was the height of like a dwarf) to be constantly irritated with the player character during a questline and at the end you save him and you have the option of saying nothing and leaving or asking if he's finally impressed and if you choose the second option he jumps with all his might and slaps you hard in the face
@4:00 Let me clarify a few things. First of all, we hate that Nathanos treats us like trash, not because we want to be treated like saviors/champions/gods; no, we hate it because in a world that already constantly turns us into saviors/champions/gods, Nathanos' belittling of us just comes across as forced, makes no sense, and frankly just makes HIM look pathetic. We don't necessarily *NOT* want to be celebrity champions. But we want to be given the CHOICE of whether or not our character is, and the choice of what it is that our character is known for. Or, in the absence of accommodating these choices by game mechanics, then at least the ambiguity enough to allow us to imagine these realities for our characters. That's what Vanilla had. And to lesser extents, that's what TBC and WotLK had. The world treated you like a person. Whether or not you are a famous person is up to your personal role-playing decisions. The problem with how Blizz is doing it now, is that they pigeonhole our personal story into such specificity that my character stops feeling like MY creation any more. My warlock can NOT possibly be the best man in Thrall's goddamn wedding. My rogue makes for a very bad spy if everybody knows his face and name. And lastly, the whole "sole savior" narrative just doesn't work in an MMO. The proverbial bubble of thinking that I am the sole wielder of the Doomhammer, is immediately burst by the number of shamans running around me, slapping things with it. If the intention was to make everybody feel special, well congratulations: it's making NOBODY feel special. It's a lot of work going into not achieving the desired effect. Might as well just cut back the work, and let players' imaginations and personal choices run wild.
Big agree, especially with the last point. I get that they want to make things collectable by everyone or whatever the fuck, but I find myself looking forward to when AQ is released in Classic because of how few people will be able to get Scarab Lord and the black qiraji mount, and the amount of time, work and effort signified by possession of them. I don't want to go on some Classic wank or whatever, because I only got into WoW as a whole when Classic opened, but Scarab Lord is something that feels... truly special, to me, whereas the Heart of Azeroth stuff I've been doing in BfA just doesn't at all. I don't need to do any work for it; it's just handed to me, same (to an extent ?) as the Legion artifact weapons, even if Blizz nullifies any beneficial effects on "legacy" content (which I also think is total bullshit). Obviously when I rolled a DK I was going to be a bit above the run-of-the-mill adventurer, but I didn't ask to become the fucking Deathlord. Or to have the title "Saviour of Azeroth" handed to me while trying to grind mounts in Dragon Soul with a 110+ character. At least getting "Champion of the Frozen Wastes" required a little more effort from me (and hhhgghg yep i hate what it does to roleplay) But yeah, even as a hunter main in Classic I'm a little put off by how abrasive Nathanos is - see paragraph above for how much i care about being coddled and praised and told I'm the best - but I don't really care: he's pretty avoidable as I now don't need to quest anymore, he's tucked himself out of the way so I'm not able to accidentally run into him, and also I'm allowed to not like a character, as much as I would love to play a Forsaken hunter pre-Cata. I have other characters I enjoy, like Jeremiah Payson, the guy who sells the cockroach minipets under the bank in Undercity,
Tbh partly he cares about the "champion" of the horde even if he's unfriendly as fck xD if he wouldn't care for he never would say "May the black queen watch over you" (english is not my native lang so idk what he originally says in english. ^^ About the other facts: Yes definitly. My Sorayas (Worgen hunter) is a traitor to alliance and not a "champion" Not all of my characters i created have a good heart.
Nathanos is one of my favorites characters in WOW, he is a badass, he has a cool backstory, he is loyal, i basic love everything about him, now about Thanatos surviving the Super night Elf couple, yeah that is king plot armor, or maybe they reveal later that Sylvanas was only buffing herself during BFA but Nathanos too, since this new version of Nathanos was created using part of Sylvanas power
Well, he the two Val'kyr were empowering him during the fight as well not just fighting beside him, and he was getting his ass beat. The game mechanics don't make this that clear however because of how they let the player interact. It's drawn out because of game mechanics and the need to keep the player engaged in the action. I'm sure that if it was a cinematic instead of another part of the quest, it would show more clearly that he barely made it out of there by both luck and the Val'kyr's sacrifice. Remember, he never put a scratch on either of them, and he had to book it out of there with only one Val'kyr. He didn't exactly hold his own against them.
As a Troll Hunter, I see your desire for vengeance, and will put aside my love of kill all things shorter than myself. May your arrow fly true in Shadowlands.
For me it was the fact that I didn't know about his backstory and such and not really paying much attention to him in Legion seeing him come into a massive role in BFA and with plot armor is able to take on 2 of the strongest Night Elves we've ever seen. Just doesn't sit right with me. I can't wait to be through with him to be honest.
@@XFrozenAshX Genn is not a character made to be hated. He is character with major flaws, which is SOOOO refreshing in Alliance, thats why people like him.
See, I always got the feeling that Nathanos was in love with Sylvanas and she valued his service, but has gotten to the point that she's not really capable of, or doesn't prioritize *loving* anyone.
One reason I love the Horde is the rough and funny style. There is one dialog that matches up with that on the alliance side. When a rogue ask a dwarf npc for the way to the trainer. Otherwise the alliance npc's are boringly kind. Horde npc's still make me laugh after all these years. "Don't trust any living". Original Sylvanas was scary as hell and so was also Nathanos . That doesn't mean I hate them, it mean I am enjoyed.
First time I played a rogue 2005 was as a gnome. I was new in WOW. So yes I asked the first guard I saw in IF, the first time I went to IF, for the way to the trainer and his answer was funny. I played Alliance for 2 years then re-rolled to Horde and thought the npc's where much funnier. It is my opinion. I am 65, retired now but well educated. Never used drugs and never called a person dumb because of a different opinion than me. I can imagine you are that kind of guy that inspect other players and tell them they are dumb using this or that. So..... what is wrong with you?
@I will make operational deflector shields legal! You have mixed up real life and the game. As little as I go around killing people I go around insulting people for a laugh. See that as a fellow human giving you directions. So you are supposed to feel shame now as you mixed me up with my character in a video game and you as the guard in same game. If you got so cringed about a post that is not about you but an opinion about a game, what I think is funny in the game or not, so you feel the need to call me dumb, it makes you dumb. You have absolutely too little to do in your life. Play a game instead and be sure you know it is a game.
I'm in the middle when it comes to the player character. I've done more than enough to be considered more than a simpleton adventurer, but I don't want the fame and glory of a chosen one either. I want my character to be a hero among many, not THE hero. As for Nathanos....yeah, he's overused, and even as a Horde player I acknowledge his fight vs Malfurion and a newly empowered Tyrande was prime quality plot armor bs. They could've actually killed him and then the val'kyr sacrifices herself to resurrect him. Same results, different outcomes.
I love how rude he is. In this fantasy epic lore, with all the personality we see it's just refreshing. And i will like more people have different personalities. Someone suspicious someone rude and so on. Just give his character more time to grow and don't rush things. Like his storyline
I just hate him for how his sass is written. When you showed the vanilla dialogue I couldn’t believe this was the same character. Now he sounds like how a moody teenager would insult me and I just roll my eyes every time he speaks. Do you remember how he ‘rOaStEd’ Malfurion and Tyrande? Tree elves. He just called them tree elves and acted so proud of himself for that one. Also, I’m just getting tired of sassy characters. I’ve seen so much fiction add sassy characters left and right recently and I’m supposed to think that this character, whose main selling point is that they disrespect their mum is cool for the upteenth time.
Because they'd rather roast a consistent character instead of Sylvanas being inconsistent. I swear BfA made me hate my fellow Horde players more than I ever hated the Alliance, holy shit.
I know right? I mean, he is not a complicated character but he doesn't have to be. He is just the Champion of Sylvanas. And in that, he is kind of her extension and weapon. So I kinda like how he acts the part.
I remembered him as an abusive quest giver back when I started playing wow in 08. I did all the eastern plaguelands quests because I was fascinated with that undead subplot. So I still have no issues with Nathanos, and I get people don't like him but I always kinda did. I also can only assume that Sylvonas shared some power with him as to why he escaped Tyronda but that's just head cannon not fact.
Yeah, I still love Nathanos. I understand why he's so full of hatred for the Alliance, and I value his loyalty. He still rocks my socks, especially when sometimes he even compliments me. xD
Nah man i thought it was much better when we were only soldiers or adventurers helping the big characters, if i wanted to be the protagonist I would just play diablo
I'm gonna say it I STILL LIKE HIM, EVEN ON SHADOWLANDS He POUNDED azeroth heroes, like he used to do with words, Tyrande saves the day, after all he was winning. NATHANOS FTW
I didn't know nathanos till Legion and I personally liked the character. I love that not everyone is like "OH HI OH MIGHTY CHAMPIONS OF THE HORDE! LET ME DO YOU A BJ :))))
Nathanos took awhile but he grew on me. His "so done with this" attitude kept making me chuckle. I do wish he had a few more dimensions to him other than "Because my queen told me to". Blizzard slacked on that.
This one makes me shed a tear. I wanted this myself, that would be sick amazing, he’d be my top1 Horde leader. But he doesn’t care for the Horde or the Forsaken. He’s only on their side because Sylvanas was. When she goes to SL he doesn’t have a reason to even live, he wants to die just to be with her
I sort of hoped he'd stick around as an unlikeable, mean and rude guy, but ultimately on the same side as the Alliance. I feel like every character who's depicted as being cross and unfriendly ends up being a full-on villain in due time, leaving only friendly happy rainbow people to populate our factions.
@@flamingchickin by the time you meet him, he's gone beyond insane. He's already poisoning Malfurion and trying to take over Darnassus (all the way back in Day 1 vanilla wow), and had already been seduced by Xavius back when he chose to plant Teldrassil, since he wrapped one of Xavius's branches around the sapling during the planting, which tainted it.
I didnt even know who he was until Legion. I played alliance since vanilla and once I saw him following Sylvanas around, I really questioned who he was.
I think the biggest issue is that we seem to be playing a game of extremes here. On the one hand, we have everyone who won’t shut up about how amazing we are, and on the other we have someone who won’t shut up about how much he hates us. And we have to talk to him ALL the time. On top of the fact of his absolute blind loyalty to Sylvanas, a character who a lot of people, myself included, are not really enjoying the direction they’re taking in. I feel like, instead of having NPCs either adore or hate you, have characters change opinions, as well as have a spread of different personalities. Have assholes who treat you like dogshit, have people who either have no idea who you are or have heard of you but dont really give a shit. Have fanboys, friends, enemies and assholes
I mostly played alliance and I didn't like him because he came out of nowhere and was too strong for that. I mean, sure, there needed to be new npcs because the Horde chews threw more leaders than most modern nations, but it doesn't had to be this way.
what?! there are issues with sylvanas' writing? what're you talking about? its perfect, just like the last few seasons of GoT. but yeah there are tons of problem with her writing, my main issue with her is probably that she went from trying to take care of her people, trying to find a way to make sure the forsaken dont slowly die out cause they cant reproduce really, to i will kill as many people as i can, no matter who it is, for some mysterious reason cause...reasons. and this is something she was plannig for a really long time too... eeuh what now? she was planning this for a long time AND she wanted to stop the extinction of her people, while trying to cause as much death as possible?? this sudden 180 is giving me whiplash. and her motivations and story could make sense, but we dont have enough to go on to say if thats good or not, and that kinda makes it bad writing for a game like wow, blizzard just expects us to trust them with the story after they did things that make no sense right now and have practically no setup. imagine if harry potter suddenly at some point out of nowhere killed ron and half the people people in his class, with no setup, and maybe at some point later on in a different book years later, we find out he did it to stop voldemort. the revelation that he did it for the greater good doesnt suddenly make the previous book good at the time it came out, it makes sense now, but it goes against everything established about him before he did that. sorry for the rant, i just get mad when i see bad, illogical writing in stuff when i generally like the overal story. ^^
Nathanos blightcaller is not some "thing" that's put in by a writer, he was known as Nathanos Marris he was the first and last human who got the title "Ranger lord" from the High Elfs from Quel'thalas and was close with Sylvanas Windrunner before they die, because he was a Ranger lord the most suitable is a hunter trainer if they wanted him to stay relevant in the game and his future in it.
I knew NOTHING of Nathanos before I started the Legion and BFA quests but he immediately became my favorite WoW character once I completed a few of the quests. I love the snark he gives you, it's so much different than any of the other characters. I usually don't give any mind to most of the NPCs in-game because most of them are just boring and say the same things over and over again, treating you like the hero, so it all just becomes background noise after a while. But as soon as I began his quests, I was actually having a great time listening to his lines and seeing how he treats the player. Love this guy so much.
It really bothers me that Blizzard changed his model to look less decayed. There’s slim pickings for notable Forsaken and those we have don’t actually have appearances that reflect the race.... I don’t think any other race gets this treatment except maybe Kul Tirans who’s main NPCs all have the standard human model. Pity.
you know, his model is actually his cousin :p, i dont know when exactly but Sylvanas ordered him to kill his cousin and then she'll switch thier souls i guess. hard to explain with a brain like an cucumber
@@ewanmacdonald8466 Yeah, he switched bodies with his still alive paladin cousin and then magically enhanced by banshee magic, probably so it doesn't decay, much like Sylvanas.
Kou thanks for letting me know! I still think it was an unnecessary change that doesn’t do much for the Undead as a race but at least I know the lore behind it.
@@ewanmacdonald8466 In hindsight it may as well just be an in universe excuse to give him a new model, or lots of people would be requesting the "human DK" look for their undead.
It's the Tyrande incodent for me. I actually like Nathanos, infact he's more likeable than Sylvanas. but Tyrande is suposed to be one of the most powerfull Nightelves, equil to Malfurion, and with the powerd up Nightwarrior ritual she may even be stronger than Malfurion, so having Nathans simply beat both her and Malfurion in a 1v2 is an absoloute joke. I don't think he should have died there but he should have ran terrified for his life. Sadly, the writes seem adiamnt never to do the nightelf writing any justice. They are a shadow of the amazing race we were presented in WC3.
Honestly, as someone who has played off and on since Vanilla, I quite like Nathanos. He very much fit the mold of that fairy tale huntsman in a lot of ways, serving the evil stepmother and/or wicked witch. He's driven, very intense, while at the same time having this subdued sort of demeanor and unlike almost every other big named character seems to care little about the larger world happenings unless doing things because Sylvanas tells him to. He's also shown to be capable, and doesn't put up with shit. lol. We're so used to being fawned over by half the world leaders, that it just makes for a nice change of pace.
Come on Varimarthras technically was the same and everybody loved him... so I guess the true problem is that what a demon could afford himself a human can't. ...
I never knew he was an unpopular character. I personally never had a problem with him, I enjoyed the horde war campaign with him and I can't even recall him talking bad at me or anything.
I love Nathanos. Everything the guy says sounds so cartoonishly evil, it's hilarious. Not necessarily what he says, but the way he says it, I love to imagine him asking Sylvanas to pass the butter during breakfast in that voice or similarly boring situations like that.
Nathanos was my favorite character in both Legion and BfA. He always made me laugh with his unapologetic assholery. But the internet hivemind just spontaneously decided that they hated him and if I ever tried to show any appreciation for him I'd get shut down instantly. I liked him in Vanilla too for the same reason but he only had one questline back then. An interesting trend I noticed was that 9 out of 10 arguments against Nathanos generally boiled down to "He doesn't verbally fellate me like everyone else so I don't like him."
I don't really like nathanos. I don't hate him, but his comments are unnecessary. In classic it made sense because we were nobodies. In BFA, we've beat the lich king, bested death wing, saved azeroth from demons and much more. And yet, he looks down at us. If he was just neutral and didnt compliment us or shit talk us then fine. I would be fine if he said my race(instead of champion) and didnt thank me for my deeds, but when we are 10 times his strength its kinda insulting for him to pull that shit.
Hiru, this video is very well researched. I can tell you're making more of an effort to stick to the black and white of things, as opposed to speculating on the many 'whys" this game has begged since it's development. Your theories are great, but your research skills are far better.
Tbf, since my main character is a male Blood Elf warlock, I had always interpreted his snarks as him being somewhat jealous of my character getting Sylvana's attention and "praise".
i think the reason is just like, the old quests from what i have been shown here, were made in a silly lighthearted kind of way, one that people would laugh at. Now instead of being a funny little “okay puny whelp go kill some stuff for me and maybe ill throw your a cracker” its just “go do this because you’re too worthless to do anything else” although I only have one horde toon that i play as of current bc i havent unlocked my allied races yet, so i could just be completely wrong, but thats how i felt about it from what i, atleast what i *recall* seeing in game but my memory is also so dumb that it will literally create memories that never happened so i mean.. its the difference between a flavorful character and just a plain asshole. Like how you and your friend call eachother pieces of shit and low lives for, idk why friends do that but its fun and i like it lmao, but someone who hates you saying it is rude and annoying and you just wanna punch their face in. its 2 am forgive my stupidity
Personally, I love Nathanos. His snarkiness, his broodiness, his upfront attitude towards us players. I can't wait to level up my Vanilla hunter so that I can encounter him in his stead and I wish that I played during Cata and had a hunter so that I could quest for him as I did in Legion and BfA. He was able to match Tyrande because he was probably powered up by the Jailor, just like Sylvanas. And I was glad that he was and stood up to that c@ck tease (btw, I'm a huge Illidan fangirl, therefore I hate the Tyrande/Malfurion power-couple...lol). I love the Sylvanas/Nathanos love plot twist and I hope that they had a foul blown relationship before the third war and had a love child or two, just like the other two Windrunner sisters had with their human stud muffins. He is true to his nature and his love and I don't really see why people hate him so much.
Exactly! People hate him for being short-tempered and snarky, but that is exactly what lore-true forsaken are. This is what I want my beloved Horde to be, not “friendship is magic” pussies like Baine or Thrall who wanna befriend alliance after what they’ve done
Because Nathanos was an easter egg, the Aragorn to her Arwen.... Then all of a sudden out of nowhere we are introduced to this character and are given, or rather forced to give a damn about him. When in reality he had little to no actual character development. Instead he is there by virtue of plot armor, going toe to toe with established lore characters that he stole , literally stole screen time from. All of a sudden the entire horde comunity gets 2 expansions where Sylvs. Boy toy is literally thrown in our face, and we the audience are expected to give a damn about a character who does little more than execute sylvanass orders to the letter.... He isn't a character he is a lazy plot device. It really has nothing to do with personallity, I generally wish we saw more of the Nat , Sylv Love story, since its kind of a thing now that windrunners have a thing for humans (Abusive elf dad?). Jokes aside they missed the mark with him, they simply didn't use him as a character, and when someone constantly pops up to order around a fan favorite.... Characters Like Lor'themar haven't gotten any development in literally a Decade, and are pushed aside to make room for nathanos... If they actually used him as a Character with motivations etc he'd be fine. The problem is they waste screen time on a character who LITERALLY could have been replaced by "Warlord Gorgagor the son of Morgagor random orc man warrior person"
@@nightmelody777hiatus2 I cant recall the name of it, they (he and Sylvanas) used his nephew's body for him so he could have a human form again. I dont mind him being grumpy but he's just a coldblooded evil dude with no redeeming qualities
I think the problem is that he is such a front and center character. Having a minor character insult you can be fun because it takes you off guard and it differs from what youre used to, but when one of the main characters of an expansion is always peeking over your shoulder and insulting you for every step you take it gets very old very fast.
I love Nathanos, he's one of the only ones that don't lick our boots and egos. I don't mind my character being the "saviour of Azeroth" but it's most of the time too much. Like... It's weird seeing some great characters that saved world multiple times act like we're the higher ones.
I have to agree with you, as someone who also was a fan since the original questing in EP back in TBC. Although I still like the snarky and mean commentary, as it still feels vastly different than 90% of the quest npcs and gives that variety.
Back in vanilla (and now classic), alliance had a kill quest on him. This normally would take maybe 10-15 people tops as if it weren't for 2 major problems. The first is everytime anything, and I mean ANYTHING restores hp on a player fighting Nathanos (bloodthirst, crusader, hots, bandages, direct heals, etc.) He would summon 2 skeletons that hit really hard and fast. This alone killed healers pretty fast as it would quickly build up to dozens or even hundreds of skeletons swarming the raid. The second arguably BIGGER problem is that EPL was a high level pvp hotspot. Attacking nathanos would alert world chat and local defense the EPL is under attack. Since he was the only NPC in the zone that could set that alarm off, it was a world alarm that alliance were trying to complete that raid quest and horde en masse would flood the zone to wipe them. The combination of horde and a skeleton army flooding the farmstead made the quest essentially impossible on pvp servers. Throw on really poor quest rewards as icing on the cake and no one actually killed him on alliance back in phase 1-3 classic and in vanilla. I rate Nathanos: Cool guy out of ten. Anything storyline in wow after wotlk should just be considered nonsensical fan fiction by a mentally challenged story writer (who thinks sylvanas is his waifu).
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 85 | คู่เอก "ยอดเหล็กเพชร vs ผึ้งหลวง"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qq_19bnnxEo/mqdefault.jpg)
He's also literally everywhere in Bfa, taking the spotlight out of alot of characters. Like he is in both BoD and Darkshore cinematics. He's in Nazjatar intro cinematic. He's the narrator for most Horde wqs in Bfa. He went from being a minor character to suddenly being the most involved and used character on the Horde side.
well to be fair, Syalvanas is the one ordering him to do shit. he has shit to plan
That's what Blizzard does, remember how Khadgar was everywhere in Legion?
@@tinyjazzhands2074 Difference being. is that Khadgar isn't a minor character introduced in WoW only. He's been one of the major npcs in Warcraft since the rts warcraft 1/2. He's also a major character in in WoD. He's also featured in a lot of novels.
@@Mysteriosf2ptwink completely missing my point. The point is that the devs tends to take a handful of characters and then uses them for basically everything when telling a story.
While I get that devs take a handful of characters and use them for the story. My point is that Nathanos has overtaken the spotlight over characters that deserve it like Garona, Lillian, Rexxar, Eitrigg. Even new characters like King Rastakhan and his daughter.
He's extremely overused. I mean he's represented the Horde in every single zone in Bfa, he's the face the Horde sees in Darkshore. He's the face of the Horde in Nazjatar. He's the face of the Horde in the world quests throughout Bfa. He's even in the raids in the Jaina encounter, as well as the raid cinematics. He's even the narrator for the Horde in Siege of Boralus dungeon.
I remember liking him as a character back in Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK when I played. i remember going to the plaguelands and being like oh cool, this is a horde-allied character, but clearly strong enough that he has a backstory, which put him on the level of characters like Rexxar. but I can see how he is a 1-dimensional plot-armor servant to Sylvanas now and that's why it's just irritating now
Why doesn’t this have upvotes?
@@OneLostTexan to many words, most people don’t want read lots
@@ookalar665 Are you a caveman? It's like, 3 sentences ffs.
All that’s missing from him is a katana and a fedora. I’d also say referring to Sylvanas as “m’lady”, but that’s pretty much already a thing.
Nathanos anyday over Sylvanas.
He's the ultimate sylvanas fanboy.
But only one of many (including me as well)
sylvanas accepted him, gave him a chance, respected him and allowed him to advance his skills and what he wanted.
So yes, of course he is.
@@sves_16 and he loved her too, seeing Sylvanas and a few words from her made him break free of the lich king. There was a part in dark mirror when Nathanos was thinking: in life she was beautiful, but now she is a goddess.
So am i
No way, he's not nearly fat and greasy enough.
I liked Nathanos in Legion especially when he gives the player character an indirect compliment along the lines of "finally someone competent arrives". I had hoped they had kept exploring that relationship about him being grumpy about everything but starting to trust and appreciating the player due to us meeting his expectations and scoring results.
Writing got bad and lazy in BfA, whole xpac feels like a fanfic of Sylvanas and everyone involved is acting funny
I think the problem is that Nathanos didn't really change much. While it makes sense that he would treat you like crap in vanilla, in doesn't in retail. In vanilla, you where a random adventurer while he was a champion to his people. In retail this dynamic doesn't work because your character is the equivalent of god.
Please watch from 5:28 Nathanos is still way superior than the player chqracter
@@exxor9108superior as in stronger than you. English isn't my first language sorry
@@cultistofdarkness1661 You take the game engine as lore, because you cannot really do that. In Legion my Warlock wielded an artifact powerful enough to rip a tear into reality itself, capable of destroying entire planets...yet she got killed by a few wolves because I didn't pay attention. Or for example my warrior who fought against a powerful pitlord and won the battle and only got killed because the pitlord essentially used a suicide bomb. And he did so without any artifact weapon.
Or you know let's take a look at Stormheim: Greymane crushed Nathanos and nearly killed him. During the last seconds of the fight on the airship you can see Greymane jumping on Nathanos and him using the /cover emote.
@@CecilyThanador what? Im only talking about the player character being less powerful than Nathanos. In legion your weapon was powerful not you. Nathanos was weaker than greymane in legion, yes but so were you. It seems like you are taking game engine as lore
@@cultistofdarkness1661 You were the one talking about how Nathanos is more powerful, yet your only prove is a singular quest where he serves as a mini boss...the fact that even a murloc can serve as a mini boss doesn't prove your point at all.
4:30 Best case would be dynamic writing where the npcs recognize what the character actually did when it was current content, it would increase the immersion a lot in pretty much all cases and would be a cool nostalgia trip - I dont want to be the champion of azeroth on every single character, it needs to feel earned and like something special. But yeah, that would actually require great writing and a lot more dialogue... Stuff like this would make me respect blizz more, going the extra mile
They could do it through the achievement/title system. It wouldn't necessarily take a ton more effort, just have some NPCs look for specific achievements and/or titles, and incorporate them in.
One of my favorite things in shadowlands was lady vashj calling out my tbc era character for being the one who killed her. And that was an incredibly minor change that's easily implemented.
I liked how Gryan Stoutmantle remembers your PC in Grizzly Hills after you Killed VanCleef
Heeeey da ist ja corrupted :D
Hes voice helps a lot, and that is a big prop for his VA
Yes, the voice is so fucking awesome. The disgust, hatred, cynicism is so well done.
I like Nathanos but the Tyrande thing really pissed me off. Here’s how I would change it:
Tyrande royally wrecks Nathanos. Suddenly the Valkyr arrive and grab his corpse (and the Horde Champion.) Back at camp Sylvanas uses one of her valkyr to save him. Tyrande looks good, Nathanos looks good, Sylvanas looks slightly more nuanced. Everyone would win and the end result is almost exactly the same.
Blizzard hire me plz
We could even explain that last unnamed val'kyr and make it into the said unnamed to revive him
Honestly I'd have him escape but pulling a FUCKton of shit to do that. I'm talking a full-on artillery strike on her position which she holds off - especially if it's aimed at Malfurion instead. Nathanos is good at one thing, which is pretty much running away.
Though yeah, Sylvanas having to show some concern for her beloved servant would be interesting regardless.
@Trash Person honestly its freaking tragic how they make them look like trash. I hate elves but Tyrande and Malfurion are next level power.
Like Tyrande appearing out of nowhere in battle like ninja just to save malfurion in last second. She is queen of plot armor.
The explanation is probably he got the same power from Shadowlands. He uses the same chain ability from the SL cinematics.
Nathanos was fun when he was a rare treat in small doses.
When he and Sylvanas got shoved into the spotlight that rate treat became the entire meal. Even chocolate gets overwhelming when it's all you have to eat.
Edit: As to the whole "people say they don't want to be the big goddamn heroes" thing?
There's a difference between being tired of being constantly fawned over by everyone and being constantly treated like shit. Nathanos falls, for me at least, way too far on the wrong side of that.
hear hear
My feelings exactly
Just like those Minions (Despicable Me). They were funny/cute at first. Until they overrun the world.
Let Sylvanas die and Nathanos give her his life energy and they kiss before he die....that will be cool.
What do you mean it has been done? Where?
Well said.
I never liked in Forsaken that they hardly ever bear the consequences of their actions. Nathanos and Sylvanas are the greatest examples of this. You can see and feel how writers want these two never looks like losers. Even after losing to Tyrande, they were the last ones who smile. You can't like someone who gets away with everything.
Night elves got away with summoning Sargeras and starting the whole legion invasion, simply in their pursuit for power. They got away with enslaving the trolls and taking their territories from them, making trolls obey them out of fear of being exterminated. Night elves got away with using the products of Illidan’s doing while throwing him in prison for creating it in the first place without moral condemnation. It’s only to their arrogance and shortsight that we got Allies like Tauren, Nightborne, blood elves. Ah yeah, Tyrande did whiplash at us while we were saving her precious Malfurion and did many rush and hot blooded decisions instead of being “wise” like her ancient race should be. Not to mention their xenophobia in Warcraft 3 where night elves were undermining both Horde and Alliance attempts at defeating the legion
@@liquorzh First of all, night elfs didn't got away from punishment, their vast Empire was destroyed, their capital was in the middle of an implosion! If that's not the consequences of your actions I don't know what is. Secondly, seeing what destruction they committed, they completely banned Arcane from society. See, they're one of the few races that learned from their mistakes.
Also Azshara and Highborne summoned the Legion. It was Lowborn night elves who saved the world by starting a rebellion. Yes, night elves opened the way for Sargeras, but now those night elves are Satyrs and Naga. Once again, the guilty didn't escape from consequences. You have to be really blind to put them all in one bag. As for the new well of eternity, maybe they got nice bonuses but only to protect the well, its their job not reward. About NE Xenophobia, blood elves haven't stopped using the power that destroyed the world a few days ago so Im supried Malf didnt kill them, I'm sure that BE chose to leave themselves so I don't know why you show them as example. Nightborne literally locked themselves in a bubble while rest of NE struggled to save this world.
But I agree with you about the tauren and wc3. Tyrande should help Cairne and investigate the situation of humans and orcs first.
did you see the BFA trailer?? what happen to undercity?? an undead farted so hard that destroyed the city and still uneder a massive gaz cloud??? also forseken where hunted by scarlet crusade, the only horde major city that got destroyed in a war. they were born with hate, they fight with hate and because that they suffer a lot of consequences
He's painfully one dimensioned in his intentions, "I do stuff because my queen tells me, and I love her", no deeper than that.
He's a fanatic in the cult of Sylvanas that's to be certain, but there's reasons and other things going on. She saved him from his enslavment to the lich king and made him the ranger he is. He does question her judgement at times, and he does seem to actually care about his people. He was appalled and shocked by Sylvanas's orders to fire upon her own people who were willingly trying to return to her during the meeting with the humans at the wall between Hillsbad and Arathi. He saw nothing wrong with the desolate counsel wanting to see their living relatives and approved of letting them do so. He was the one who persuaded Sylvanas to allow the meeting at the wall which she was reluctant to. He was even more shocked and stood wide eyed as Teldrassil burned. He loved his cousin Stephen like a little brother or son and was even proud of him becoming a paladin despite Stephen hating his guts and insulting him. He never hated Stephen and felt guilt for letting Sylvanas kill him in the ritual that restored Nathanos's body. Stephen was a member of the Argent Dawn and had attacked Forsaken which lead to his capture by Sylvanas's dark rangers, or so Sylvanas told Nathanos. And, who can forget the most memorable moment of all: Nathanos playing fetch with one of his blighthounds and telling the diseased mutt that he's a good boy?
Also, he hates the alliance not just because it is the will of his queen but because he genuinely feels betrayed by them for turning on the Forsaken when they left the Scourge. As he puts it, they hunted him and his people, so he swore to hunt them in turn. He loves killing alliance. He relishes his kills in his hatred and quest for revenge. He honestly wanted the Horde to succeed.in their war, at least at first.
He lived in Lordereon during his time as Ranger Lord of the Farstriders because he couldn't stand the rudeness from the high elves towards him for being a human and the rumors that spread. He worried that his promotion would affect Sylvanas's support amongst her people, but he also never wanted the rank. He mentions in the Dark mirror that he would have been happy just working the land on his family's stead. He was proud of his home and wanted a quiet life at that time although duty and his love of Sylvanas kept him from it in the end.
Loli Protection Unit i was thinking the same xD
Why does every character have to be multidimensional?
When you do quests for him in EPL, when you complete the very last quest, he's finally a little nicer to you, saying you've earned a spot amongst his champions
"Happened because plot armour" is like 80% of the problems I'm having with retail right now, lol.
I can't wait to fight Nathanos in Shadowlands, then have him shout "ENOUGH", stun my entire party for 30 seconds while monologuing about my foolishness, then running off to become a boss in a 5-man dungeon.
Name 5 when it was only plot armor in last few expansions and specifically plot armor which are new like grom oneshotting Mannoroth is old news.
Like Tyrande and Malfurion being masters of plot armor.
@@HouseVinstor This... Malfurion as apprentice not losing to azshara empowered by well or .malf as appretince forcing archimonde to retreat.
@@HouseVinstor Really? It's the other way around, mate. The rest of the world wears plot armour so both Tyrande and Malfurion has less pwoer and doesn't do shit most of the time.
If they were playing on the level the lore has them, Tyrande would have probably wiped out the horde.
And that's not even being denied in this video, per se.
26th of December, 2019.
Log Entry: Himuradx still says "eXscape".
I hate him because of his plot armor, that and the way he is showed into almost every single cinematic this expansion. He just has so much spotlight that the self-insert theory is something I could actually believe.
Exactly. The fact that the self-insert theory fits so perfectly with how Nathanos has been written is the issue here.
Almost every cinematic? What are you talking about? That's bullshit
Dude, he was in three cinematics, and he wasn't in any of them for more than two seconds.
Meanwhile, Saurfang, Sylvanas, Anduin, and Jaina have had more cinematics and ones solely dedicated to them. The only short story blizz has written about him is only three pages long. That's nothing compared to the spotlight given to the others. Nathanos hasn't been given the royal treatment. He's just Sylvanas's loyal champion. As she takes more of a major role, so does he in service to her. His involvement just empathizes Sylvanas's involvement when she can't be wandering around as warchief. Honestly, we should have seen more of him than we did in the past just on classic lore alone.
"almost every single cinematic"
Are you high?
Most of the cinematics had to do with Saurfang. Even the in-game ones rarely have Nathanos. Tf r u talkin' bout? He's in Darkshore, the rescue of Talanji, and opening to Nazj'atar, and only one of those have him as a "focus" (Darkshore seriously focuses on Night Elf character development, not Nathanos)
I live for Nathanos' snark. He's such a smarmy bastard and I love him
YES thank you
The problem with Nathanos talking down to players now is the fact that by this point player characters have taken on the likes of The LIch King, Deathwing, Lei Shen, C'Thun, Yogg Saron, Kil'jaden, Argus, and so on. It shows massive hubris to talk down to and belittle those who have faced literal god-like beings and not only survived, but won.
Back in vanilla player characters were small time. Most probably hadn't even fought Ragnaros when they met Nathanos. Thus him talking down to them like they were lowly was less irritating because what he said wasn't far from the truth.
Just because we are skilled fighters and basicaly god-killers doesn't mean we are a bunch of idiots icompetent of war. In fact, the fact that we are those all-mighty god-killing machines of looting might be his biggest problem now. I am now going to use not really a good analogy, it's driven to extreme to prove the point, but hear me out. Imagine you have 2 generals. One general is a loyal war leader of his ruler. Other general basically works for whoever pays the most (which we do), has a metric fuckton of medals and some nuclear weapons in his arsenal and ego of a size of Sargeras'... sword. The medaled general is supposed to take orders from the loyal one who doesn't have all these "honors", "riches" and "power". Of-Fing-course the non-medaled general would talk smack to that overglorified arogant piece of shit so he would at least fucking listen and do what he is supposed to do.
All in all, I am one of the few who likes Nathanos and being called "pathetic idiot". In the same like, if I hear Magni call me "champion" one more time, I am joining the Burning Legion.
@@chaoslance4959 You're right that wasn't a very good analogy.
No way in hell would that decorated General be taking orders from the un-decorated one.
Considering those medals would come with promotions. The decorated General would most likely be a 5-star, while the un-decorated General would be (at most) a 3-star.
So the un-docorated General would shut the hell up and be the one following orders, or be put in their place.
Something I hope we do to Nathanos in Shadowlands.
Fing worthless traitor.
@@Gruntman1234 You just gave me an idea. PvP event between ppl hating Nathanos and ppl likeing him. The overall kill-count would determine his faith. Player agency at it's finest
@@Gruntman1234 Funny thing, officers can put in for themselves to get some medals like the bronze and silver stars. We had several officers in S2 and S3 do just that from my deployment. And getting medals or other "awards" can be due to a popularity thing, I've seen people get promoted that really shouldn't be leaders, but they were really liked and kissed a lot of ass so between that and having the promotion points they got it. Decorations on a soldier/marine/sailor/airmen etc doesn't always mean they are the most experienced. You can have someone that his highly decorated, yet they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and also the reverse where they have very few decorations of any kind but they are incredible leaders, but they might speak their mind and therefor they get looked over for awards and medals because the higher ups don't like because they don't take shit from anyone. If the situation is not ideal for their troops they'll tell it how it is, instead of saying yes sir/ma'am. TLDR is that decorations don't define the military prowess of someone, there are several factors for being "awarded" and several for not.
Chaoslance most players hate him though. It'd be like 1v25 so you'd have 25 people zerging down one guy. Could be the best WoW player in existence. Nothing is saving him from that 25 man zerg.
You're missing the point in something.
Nathanos we see nowadays is NOT equal to Nathanos back in Vanilla.
Yes, these two Nathanoses have their rude attitude to player char in common. But, if you read all the quests involving Nathanos in Vanilla, then you may actually notice two things: first, aside of being salty he actually demonstrates some bio and some backstory, and second, his attitude to player actually changes (slowly, but still) quest by quest as player proves self to him and in the end (after the quests into Stratholme) he even salutes with respect, or smth like that.
What do we see in modern Nathanos, on the other hand? We see the thing that folks on TvTropes call "Flanderization": his most known trait - being salty - got taken up to eleven and frozen at that state (no matter what players do and how they prove worthy again and again), and all the other traits were practically forgotten. It gets repetitive and, as a result of that, annoying, especially considering how much "TV time" he takes now.
On top of that, one thing is when Nathanos behaves like that as a field commander in badlands, and completely other thing is when he keeps shitting left and right after being appointed to a such high rank. While seeing this attitude to my char all I want now is to ask him: "Dude, what the F is your problem? What have actually you done to deserve your current rank and behave like you're a F-ing prince? Have you proven yourself as a veteran of multiple wars and effective commander, like Saurfang? Have you done some heroic deeds for the Horde, like Rexxar? Or, maybe, have you shown bravery and determination to stand up and fight against evil, even when it comes to disobeying your warchief, like Baine or Vol'jin? No. You got promoted to "the second man in the Horde" just thanks to Sylvanas, who considers you her favourite, and you're nothing without her. So stop barking and remember that you are such big man just as long as your mistress is in charge, while I am the hero of the Horde and Azeroth and will remain him no matter what happens tomorrow".
I was going to say "The reason people don't like him anymore is because he shows no personality beyond those two traits" but you worded it a lot better. No one's asking for Nathanos to kiss our feet, we just want him to display any sort of emotion outside "Sylvanas' #1 Simp" and "lol fuck you _hero_ you ain't shit."
I'd honestly take a "I-It's not like I respect you or anything, h-hero!!" Nathanos over what we got. At least tsunderes have character growth.
Like his master he is a victim of the poor direction they took the writing in later WoW. He went from "A human so good he won the respect of the ranger general to join the order" to "Guy Syl liked and has wrapped around her fingers" Almost makes that achievement kinda seem like nepotism. He is a pure dog of the banshee queen now with unreasonable amounts of plot armor.
Aerensianic To be fair, even sylvanas herself got her position as Ranger-general through nepotism...So I suppose for sylvanas, it came natural 🙄
It isn't poor writing; you just don't like how the story isn't lining up with your headcanon. EVERYONE that says it's poor writing just has headcanon that isn't being fulfilled.
@@benp9793 Blizzard hasn't done good writing for their games in a long time. I don't know how you can brush it off as just "not lining up with head canon". They don't do larger narratives well or plan ahead well. Part of it is the nature of writing for an MMO but the constant retcons and use of rule of cool along with "writing for the moment" has substantially hurt their larger narratives. They can do small quest chain or zone storylines fine but the big stuff they flop at. Its been a complaint for a long time with WoW.
Aerensianic "for a long time"
dude... the story has been progressing for over a decade.
MoP and WoD (yes, the meme expansions, were so crucial for lore, its why its there).
just because YOU dont like the way the story has taken a turn, doesnt mean its shit writing.
Aerensianic oh wait, youre a taliesin fan arent you? lmao.
"Make yourself useful!" "Try not to get yourself killed....."
"Speaker of the Horde..."
@@sacrosby One of the most memorable voice overs. Second only to "A turtle made it to the water"
I’d rather be treated with skepticism and work my way towards being trusted and valued as a hero. I don’t want instant and constant praise, nor do I want instant and constant scorn. I want the actions of my character to make an impression on the characters I interact with throughout the story, not just have all my efforts get the EXACT same response to my every move.
That too much to ask for?
There's a difference between "I want to just be an adventurer again" and "I want to be belittled constantly by some a-hole NPC".
People saying they want the former are not disproven because they dislike the latter.
Reading the short story 'Dark Mirror' would help a lot of people understand Nathanos. The most important thing to know about him is that he doesn't care about anything except his loyalty to Sylvanas. It says he really wants them both to just die so they can "endure damnation together" but his loyalty to her keeps him going with whatever she wants him to do.
4:02 "Actually players who dislike being the chosen one secretly like being the chosen one and disliking the new Nathanos proves this!" like how the hell does one come to that conclusion?
If they complain about being the centre of attention while sill complaining Nathanos is rude to the champion, then that someone doesn't know what to complain about. The logical mistake is conflating both opinions which are fairly vocal amd might not belong to the same groups of people
it was such a shit take
That’s simple: he stopped thinking with his upper head and started to think only with his lower head.
Also people don’t really like Sylvannas and her necrophiliac fanboys and Nathanos is their personification in game :V
Hey undead has no brain
EDGYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
that's complete bullshit. Nathanos isn't motivated by love. if anything it's obvious that he has so much respect for sylvanas that he doesn't even see the affection she gives him. in fact i think nathanos is the only person she shows ANY signs of affection whatsoever
@@coycen That's right, it's even metioned in the video. He doesn't realize the affection she gives him, till the end of the campain.
I think the self-insert hate comes not necessarily from him being some writer's actual self-insert, but rather that everything together makes him come across as some writer's self insert. The whole issue of his derisive character isn't that he insults you, but his elevated position with recent events conflicts with how the narrative decides to treat you, the player, in the grand scheme of things. When you were treated as just some schmuck who was so wet behind the ears that Nathanos even sparing the time for you did seem above his pay grade for someone of his history, it made sense in the narrative. But that time has long since passed. Whether you agree with the decision or not, your character is recognized for your accomplishments by the world itself, and even if there are npcs who are still lore-wise stronger and more important than you, they recognize that you aren't just some random adventurer, but someone who has fought demons, gods, and even planets themselves.
Nathanos still treating you like dirt is fine, it is in line with his character and may be construed as him attempting to maintain his ego and elevate his own sense of worth by trying to put you and others down. It could even be a sense of character growth that he is being put into a higher position, yet his growth in power doesn't reflect it, and his insecurities about the situation - and his need to prove himself to the one he had sworn himself to - are coming out through behavior like that. Now THAT would be something fitting the narrative, and could be something that could be touched on, and later addressed with Nathanos slowly doing more to become stronger. I would be fine with some of the shit Nathanos has done, if I've seen over the course of the story things that explain how he has grown in power (something that I also call bullshit with Sylvanas, mind you. Starting to see a theme here.)
Instead, the narrative is warped so that Nathanos is somehow, with little explanation, not just elevated in terms of governmental power through being the Warchief's right-hand man, but somehow has become powerful enough to compete on the level of people like Tyrande. I could accept Nathanos getting the drop on someone like Genn or Anduin or anyone else, but Tyrande (and Malfurion) are without a doubt among the top 5 heavy hitters the alliance has as individual powers. Sylvanas squeaking out a win is something I could believe with the way it was portrayed, but Nathanos? The only way I see even a draw happening (with the way it is portrayed in the game, not necessarily at all) is with the factual reality of the Horde player character backing up Nathanos due to the player's own track record, and that just opens a whole new can of worms. And this is not just normal Tyrande, but a Tyrande who basically decided to go full warrior and stop taking a passive role.
So yeah, the whole issue is that Nathanos is being written with the same issues as if he was a self-insert character for the purposes of wish fulfillment, because the narrative of the story is being warped to fit him, rather than the other way around, and it is starting to aggravate people. It is one thing if he seems like he is trying to make himself seem bigger than he actually is, and I wouldn't even mind if care was taken to show his growth of power in a way the players can digest with any modicum of believability. When the writing begins to back up that exaggerated self-importance, and goes from a to c without showing b, it goes from just a character with an inflated sense of worth to a character who ruins the immersion of the players and the story.
He's not a self insert
@Trash Person He's definately written with more obvious writer projection than the rest of that guys work. Jaina has the same problem with Christie Golden.
I mean wasn't thrall kind of self insert for Chris M?
What does the word “self-insert” mean? Can someone please explain this to me? Thank you.😀
@@shadowgamer4306 It means the author/writer wishes to be the character, and writes them, and projects onto them accordingly. In fanfiction it is called a "May Sue" character.
"Hmh, speaker of the horde"
i like nathanos character he is a breath of fresh air alongside the honor, this honor, that in the horde. he hates working with you as much as you might hate working with him. he still does his job of helping you but he does not do it with a smile and i like that. is diferent he just send you to kill stuff because he was ordered to do it.
we need more unlikeable characters. it helps to make the likeable characters more likeable in comparison.
it also makes it believable. I can't stand wow nowadays alot because of the poor writing you are pointing out. Everything is fucking epic that nothing is epic anymore.
He doesn't just send you to kill things because he was ordered to. Sometimes he just hates things and wants them dead like all those bats in the Plaguelands. Sure, they pose a threat to deploying groups against the scourge and his missions as a minor hindrance, but his main motivation was his utter hatred of those "winged demons" as he put it. He really hated bats back then before he got that bat mount. I'm guessing Sylvanas had to force him to ride it. He also really hates birds. He also had players kill an absurd amount scourge to get enough living rot within 5 minutes just to feed it to his dogs. The rot expires in that time period. Why did he need to feed his blighthounds rot? He never explains. It might be to keep them alive without succumbing to the plague; it might be to train them to like the taste of rotting flesh in their attacks against the Scourge; it might be just to mess with the player and to see what would happen. This is the same guy who had the player send birds to poop on pirates as "psychological warfare". He wanted the murlocs in darkshore dead because he was tired of their gibbering. He just enjoys the suffering of those he hates and removing annoyances. As he says, duty does not need interfere with savoring a victory, after he has you murder things. He's the ultimate asshole, and it's great.
I agree, having characters that are less likeable is a good thing for the game, like Gul'dan, Ashvane, and several others.
nathanos has always been a fav of mine i mained hunter from bc to my current 'break' of wow, i still love him cuz hes just blunt and loyal.
great vids keep em up
Yet he still thinks that you, Azeroth's chosen, is nothing more than a piece of trash. More than easily disposed of. And he would _gladly_ do it, if given the word. He doesn't give a flying rat's ass about you. Neither does Sylvanas.
He does just feel like an oc for someone who loves the corpse lady and really wanted an edgy character that live to serve her. Not that he actually is, but his whole character now feels like he is.
I just want a minor character (itd be nice if it was the height of like a dwarf) to be constantly irritated with the player character during a questline and at the end you save him and you have the option of saying nothing and leaving or asking if he's finally impressed and if you choose the second option he jumps with all his might and slaps you hard in the face
@Designer Fetish perfectly summed up, and yes. I'd die for that quest line.
I want to see Genn shred him to pieces. Finally see the end of that duel they had in legion
@@lukaskonecny9992 nIcE
I like his character,his storyline in classic was refreshing and quite fun to play out.
@4:00 Let me clarify a few things.
First of all, we hate that Nathanos treats us like trash, not because we want to be treated like saviors/champions/gods; no, we hate it because in a world that already constantly turns us into saviors/champions/gods, Nathanos' belittling of us just comes across as forced, makes no sense, and frankly just makes HIM look pathetic.
We don't necessarily *NOT* want to be celebrity champions. But we want to be given the CHOICE of whether or not our character is, and the choice of what it is that our character is known for. Or, in the absence of accommodating these choices by game mechanics, then at least the ambiguity enough to allow us to imagine these realities for our characters. That's what Vanilla had. And to lesser extents, that's what TBC and WotLK had. The world treated you like a person. Whether or not you are a famous person is up to your personal role-playing decisions.
The problem with how Blizz is doing it now, is that they pigeonhole our personal story into such specificity that my character stops feeling like MY creation any more. My warlock can NOT possibly be the best man in Thrall's goddamn wedding. My rogue makes for a very bad spy if everybody knows his face and name.
And lastly, the whole "sole savior" narrative just doesn't work in an MMO. The proverbial bubble of thinking that I am the sole wielder of the Doomhammer, is immediately burst by the number of shamans running around me, slapping things with it. If the intention was to make everybody feel special, well congratulations: it's making NOBODY feel special. It's a lot of work going into not achieving the desired effect. Might as well just cut back the work, and let players' imaginations and personal choices run wild.
Big agree, especially with the last point. I get that they want to make things collectable by everyone or whatever the fuck, but I find myself looking forward to when AQ is released in Classic because of how few people will be able to get Scarab Lord and the black qiraji mount, and the amount of time, work and effort signified by possession of them. I don't want to go on some Classic wank or whatever, because I only got into WoW as a whole when Classic opened, but Scarab Lord is something that feels... truly special, to me, whereas the Heart of Azeroth stuff I've been doing in BfA just doesn't at all. I don't need to do any work for it; it's just handed to me, same (to an extent ?) as the Legion artifact weapons, even if Blizz nullifies any beneficial effects on "legacy" content (which I also think is total bullshit). Obviously when I rolled a DK I was going to be a bit above the run-of-the-mill adventurer, but I didn't ask to become the fucking Deathlord. Or to have the title "Saviour of Azeroth" handed to me while trying to grind mounts in Dragon Soul with a 110+ character. At least getting "Champion of the Frozen Wastes" required a little more effort from me (and hhhgghg yep i hate what it does to roleplay)
But yeah, even as a hunter main in Classic I'm a little put off by how abrasive Nathanos is - see paragraph above for how much i care about being coddled and praised and told I'm the best - but I don't really care: he's pretty avoidable as I now don't need to quest anymore, he's tucked himself out of the way so I'm not able to accidentally run into him, and also I'm allowed to not like a character, as much as I would love to play a Forsaken hunter pre-Cata. I have other characters I enjoy, like Jeremiah Payson, the guy who sells the cockroach minipets under the bank in Undercity,
Tbh
partly he cares about the "champion" of the horde even if he's unfriendly as fck xD
if he wouldn't care for he never would say "May the black queen watch over you" (english is not my native lang so idk what he originally says in english. ^^
About the other facts:
Yes definitly. My Sorayas (Worgen hunter) is a traitor to alliance and not a "champion" Not all of my characters i created have a good heart.
Nathanos is one of my favorites characters in WOW, he is a badass, he has a cool backstory, he is loyal, i basic love everything about him, now about Thanatos surviving the Super night Elf couple, yeah that is king plot armor, or maybe they reveal later that Sylvanas was only buffing herself during BFA but Nathanos too, since this new version of Nathanos was created using part of Sylvanas power
Well, he the two Val'kyr were empowering him during the fight as well not just fighting beside him, and he was getting his ass beat. The game mechanics don't make this that clear however because of how they let the player interact. It's drawn out because of game mechanics and the need to keep the player engaged in the action. I'm sure that if it was a cinematic instead of another part of the quest, it would show more clearly that he barely made it out of there by both luck and the Val'kyr's sacrifice. Remember, he never put a scratch on either of them, and he had to book it out of there with only one Val'kyr. He didn't exactly hold his own against them.
God fanboyism buying into shit writing is sad
Nathanos: I'm the most hated character in game
Medan: I'm a joke to you?
Fesco "in game" Medan sucks, but he sucks so bad he isn't even canon.
Medan is not a game character tho
Nathanos: Yes. Actually.
Medan: :(
I'm a simple man. I just want my dwarf hunter to finish the job he started in vanilla.
As a Troll Hunter, I see your desire for vengeance, and will put aside my love of kill all things shorter than myself. May your arrow fly true in Shadowlands.
@@AlmightStick so you like kill babys? Weyrd
For me it was the fact that I didn't know about his backstory and such and not really paying much attention to him in Legion seeing him come into a massive role in BFA and with plot armor is able to take on 2 of the strongest Night Elves we've ever seen. Just doesn't sit right with me. I can't wait to be through with him to be honest.
His attitude.
He is that kind of character, who was written to be hated.
Similarly to Blackmoore.
Personally I find Genn more like that but everybody seems to love him.
XFrozenAshX Gen is best boy. Then again I also like Nathanos.
I'm still waiting for Blackmoore to be added in caverns of time just to kill him everyday ._.
@@svdeskdust ??? Escape from Durnholde exists don't it?
@@XFrozenAshX Genn is not a character made to be hated. He is character with major flaws, which is SOOOO refreshing in Alliance, thats why people like him.
See, I always got the feeling that Nathanos was in love with Sylvanas and she valued his service, but has gotten to the point that she's not really capable of, or doesn't prioritize *loving* anyone.
I can agree with you, even with her sort of weird character moments going on currently.
And she callously and knowingly uses his feelings for her to her benefit. But SL recent developments show that she did care about him at some level
One reason I love the Horde is the rough and funny style. There is one dialog that matches up with that on the alliance side. When a rogue ask a dwarf npc for the way to the trainer. Otherwise the alliance npc's are boringly kind. Horde npc's still make me laugh after all these years. "Don't trust any living". Original Sylvanas was scary as hell and so was also Nathanos . That doesn't mean I hate them, it mean I am enjoyed.
First time I played a rogue 2005 was as a gnome. I was new in WOW. So yes I asked the first guard I saw in IF, the first time I went to IF, for the way to the trainer and his answer was funny. I played Alliance for 2 years then re-rolled to Horde and thought the npc's where much funnier. It is my opinion. I am 65, retired now but well educated. Never used drugs and never called a person dumb because of a different opinion than me. I can imagine you are that kind of guy that inspect other players and tell them they are dumb using this or that. So..... what is wrong with you?
@I will make operational deflector shields legal! You have mixed up real life and the game. As little as I go around killing people I go around insulting people for a laugh. See that as a fellow human giving you directions. So you are supposed to feel shame now as you mixed me up with my character in a video game and you as the guard in same game. If you got so cringed about a post that is not about you but an opinion about a game, what I think is funny in the game or not, so you feel the need to call me dumb, it makes you dumb. You have absolutely too little to do in your life. Play a game instead and be sure you know it is a game.
I'm in the middle when it comes to the player character. I've done more than enough to be considered more than a simpleton adventurer, but I don't want the fame and glory of a chosen one either. I want my character to be a hero among many, not THE hero.
As for Nathanos....yeah, he's overused, and even as a Horde player I acknowledge his fight vs Malfurion and a newly empowered Tyrande was prime quality plot armor bs. They could've actually killed him and then the val'kyr sacrifices herself to resurrect him. Same results, different outcomes.
I thought I remembered him in the plaguelands!
Killing him that is, I was alliance after all with my friends then...stupid feign death.
I love how rude he is. In this fantasy epic lore, with all the personality we see it's just refreshing. And i will like more people have different personalities. Someone suspicious someone rude and so on. Just give his character more time to grow and don't rush things. Like his storyline
Exactly, a world where all characters are nice and smiley and polite would have been boring.
I just hate him for how his sass is written. When you showed the vanilla dialogue I couldn’t believe this was the same character. Now he sounds like how a moody teenager would insult me and I just roll my eyes every time he speaks. Do you remember how he ‘rOaStEd’ Malfurion and Tyrande? Tree elves. He just called them tree elves and acted so proud of himself for that one.
Also, I’m just getting tired of sassy characters. I’ve seen so much fiction add sassy characters left and right recently and I’m supposed to think that this character, whose main selling point is that they disrespect their mum is cool for the upteenth time.
I actually don't mind Nathanos. In fact, he's fantastic. We need more mean characters in WoW.
I just didn't think his snark combines well with being a total loyal simp for Sylvanas.
Because they do not see him for the champion that he is. A stoic man who serves the order he believes in, and, of course, the woman he loves.
Because they'd rather roast a consistent character instead of Sylvanas being inconsistent. I swear BfA made me hate my fellow Horde players more than I ever hated the Alliance, holy shit.
I know right? I mean, he is not a complicated character but he doesn't have to be. He is just the Champion of Sylvanas. And in that, he is kind of her extension and weapon. So I kinda like how he acts the part.
I remembered him as an abusive quest giver back when I started playing wow in 08. I did all the eastern plaguelands quests because I was fascinated with that undead subplot. So I still have no issues with Nathanos, and I get people don't like him but I always kinda did. I also can only assume that Sylvonas shared some power with him as to why he escaped Tyronda but that's just head cannon not fact.
Yeah, I still love Nathanos. I understand why he's so full of hatred for the Alliance, and I value his loyalty. He still rocks my socks, especially when sometimes he even compliments me. xD
I fukken loved him. I had "Blightbringer" locked forever since classic/bc on all servers I played
Nah man i thought it was much better when we were only soldiers or adventurers helping the big characters, if i wanted to be the protagonist I would just play diablo
Same
Exactly the same
I'm gonna say it
I STILL LIKE HIM, EVEN ON SHADOWLANDS
He POUNDED azeroth heroes, like he used to do with words, Tyrande saves the day, after all he was winning.
NATHANOS FTW
Nathanos has been my favorite since vanilla. And still is. I have my forsaken hunter since Cata pre-patch.
I didn't know nathanos till Legion and I personally liked the character. I love that not everyone is like "OH HI OH MIGHTY CHAMPIONS OF THE HORDE! LET ME DO YOU A BJ :))))
Nathanos took awhile but he grew on me. His "so done with this" attitude kept making me chuckle. I do wish he had a few more dimensions to him other than "Because my queen told me to". Blizzard slacked on that.
1:21 around 5 Players? back in the day we needed a whole raid to kill him. 20-40ppl. it was also listed as a raidquest
I actually like the big guy. I love his snarky put down lines.
I wanted him to lead the Forsaken after Sylvanas. But now all I can hope for is Gunther Arcanus, Alonsus Faol or Commander Belmont.
This one makes me shed a tear. I wanted this myself, that would be sick amazing, he’d be my top1 Horde leader. But he doesn’t care for the Horde or the Forsaken. He’s only on their side because Sylvanas was. When she goes to SL he doesn’t have a reason to even live, he wants to die just to be with her
I think you forget about Fandrahl Staghelm. He wasn't particularly nice to players as a quest giver in Darnassus.
I sort of hoped he'd stick around as an unlikeable, mean and rude guy, but ultimately on the same side as the Alliance. I feel like every character who's depicted as being cross and unfriendly ends up being a full-on villain in due time, leaving only friendly happy rainbow people to populate our factions.
@@pewtersprite5178 Didn't happen with Jaina though.
@@rdsasuke1 This is true! Even despite her super ominous "DISMANTLE THE HORDE" comment.
well his son died in his face and he suffered a lot. by the point you meet him he is already going insane.
@@flamingchickin by the time you meet him, he's gone beyond insane. He's already poisoning Malfurion and trying to take over Darnassus (all the way back in Day 1 vanilla wow), and had already been seduced by Xavius back when he chose to plant Teldrassil, since he wrapped one of Xavius's branches around the sapling during the planting, which tainted it.
I didnt even know who he was until Legion. I played alliance since vanilla and once I saw him following Sylvanas around, I really questioned who he was.
Who the f*ck hate this awersome guy !!? He is a good man and great hero !! Victory for the Forsaken !!
I think the biggest issue is that we seem to be playing a game of extremes here. On the one hand, we have everyone who won’t shut up about how amazing we are, and on the other we have someone who won’t shut up about how much he hates us. And we have to talk to him ALL the time. On top of the fact of his absolute blind loyalty to Sylvanas, a character who a lot of people, myself included, are not really enjoying the direction they’re taking in. I feel like, instead of having NPCs either adore or hate you, have characters change opinions, as well as have a spread of different personalities. Have assholes who treat you like dogshit, have people who either have no idea who you are or have heard of you but dont really give a shit. Have fanboys, friends, enemies and assholes
he's a constant source of amusement for me i hope blizz wont kill him off
I mostly played alliance and I didn't like him because he came out of nowhere and was too strong for that. I mean, sure, there needed to be new npcs because the Horde chews threw more leaders than most modern nations, but it doesn't had to be this way.
People hate his post-Legion version mostly because he is written as Sylvanas' boy toy. Aaaaaand we know the issues with Sylvanas' writing.
what?! there are issues with sylvanas' writing? what're you talking about? its perfect, just like the last few seasons of GoT.
but yeah there are tons of problem with her writing, my main issue with her is probably that she went from trying to take care of her people, trying to find a way to make sure the forsaken dont slowly die out cause they cant reproduce really, to i will kill as many people as i can, no matter who it is, for some mysterious reason cause...reasons.
and this is something she was plannig for a really long time too... eeuh what now? she was planning this for a long time AND she wanted to stop the extinction of her people, while trying to cause as much death as possible?? this sudden 180 is giving me whiplash.
and her motivations and story could make sense, but we dont have enough to go on to say if thats good or not, and that kinda makes it bad writing for a game like wow, blizzard just expects us to trust them with the story after they did things that make no sense right now and have practically no setup.
imagine if harry potter suddenly at some point out of nowhere killed ron and half the people people in his class, with no setup, and maybe at some point later on in a different book years later, we find out he did it to stop voldemort. the revelation that he did it for the greater good doesnt suddenly make the previous book good at the time it came out, it makes sense now, but it goes against everything established about him before he did that.
sorry for the rant, i just get mad when i see bad, illogical writing in stuff when i generally like the overal story. ^^
I wish Sylvanas would just fuck off, I don't feel any sympathy for her at all. She got cursed by Arthas because she wasn't good enough to beat him.
Hey, I didn't know a lot about this. Not even the "self" thing. Thank you so much for this video!
Love Nathanos
Nathanos blightcaller is not some "thing" that's put in by a writer, he was known as Nathanos Marris he was the first and last human who got the title "Ranger lord" from the High Elfs from Quel'thalas and was close with Sylvanas Windrunner before they die, because he was a Ranger lord the most suitable is a hunter trainer if they wanted him to stay relevant in the game and his future in it.
Nathanos is bloody amazing.
I knew NOTHING of Nathanos before I started the Legion and BFA quests but he immediately became my favorite WoW character once I completed a few of the quests. I love the snark he gives you, it's so much different than any of the other characters. I usually don't give any mind to most of the NPCs in-game because most of them are just boring and say the same things over and over again, treating you like the hero, so it all just becomes background noise after a while. But as soon as I began his quests, I was actually having a great time listening to his lines and seeing how he treats the player. Love this guy so much.
It really bothers me that Blizzard changed his model to look less decayed. There’s slim pickings for notable Forsaken and those we have don’t actually have appearances that reflect the race.... I don’t think any other race gets this treatment except maybe Kul Tirans who’s main NPCs all have the standard human model.
Pity.
you know, his model is actually his cousin :p, i dont know when exactly but Sylvanas ordered him to kill his cousin and then she'll switch thier souls i guess. hard to explain with a brain like an cucumber
cat from jesus I didn’t know this... that’s very weird.
@@ewanmacdonald8466 Yeah, he switched bodies with his still alive paladin cousin and then magically enhanced by banshee magic, probably so it doesn't decay, much like Sylvanas.
Kou thanks for letting me know! I still think it was an unnecessary change that doesn’t do much for the Undead as a race but at least I know the lore behind it.
@@ewanmacdonald8466 In hindsight it may as well just be an in universe excuse to give him a new model, or lots of people would be requesting the "human DK" look for their undead.
It's the Tyrande incodent for me. I actually like Nathanos, infact he's more likeable than Sylvanas. but Tyrande is suposed to be one of the most powerfull Nightelves, equil to Malfurion, and with the powerd up Nightwarrior ritual she may even be stronger than Malfurion, so having Nathans simply beat both her and Malfurion in a 1v2 is an absoloute joke. I don't think he should have died there but he should have ran terrified for his life. Sadly, the writes seem adiamnt never to do the nightelf writing any justice. They are a shadow of the amazing race we were presented in WC3.
I personally like Nathanos. Then again, I only play alliance so I've never formally met the guy.
Honestly, as someone who has played off and on since Vanilla, I quite like Nathanos. He very much fit the mold of that fairy tale huntsman in a lot of ways, serving the evil stepmother and/or wicked witch. He's driven, very intense, while at the same time having this subdued sort of demeanor and unlike almost every other big named character seems to care little about the larger world happenings unless doing things because Sylvanas tells him to. He's also shown to be capable, and doesn't put up with shit. lol. We're so used to being fawned over by half the world leaders, that it just makes for a nice change of pace.
Come on Varimarthras technically was the same and everybody loved him... so I guess the true problem is that what a demon could afford himself a human can't. ...
Because he is the only one Sylvanas cares about.
I never knew he was an unpopular character. I personally never had a problem with him, I enjoyed the horde war campaign with him and I can't even recall him talking bad at me or anything.
G
Agreed. Nathanos is the one part of the Sylvanas arc I actually like.
Oh how public opinion can warp reality itself never fails to amuse me
I love Nathanos. Everything the guy says sounds so cartoonishly evil, it's hilarious. Not necessarily what he says, but the way he says it, I love to imagine him asking Sylvanas to pass the butter during breakfast in that voice or similarly boring situations like that.
Nathanos was my favorite character in both Legion and BfA. He always made me laugh with his unapologetic assholery. But the internet hivemind just spontaneously decided that they hated him and if I ever tried to show any appreciation for him I'd get shut down instantly.
I liked him in Vanilla too for the same reason but he only had one questline back then.
An interesting trend I noticed was that 9 out of 10 arguments against Nathanos generally boiled down to "He doesn't verbally fellate me like everyone else so I don't like him."
Exactly
Bi$harp I like him too, I think he could even be a little bit more alarakly :>
Lmao same, I love how much of an asshole he is. I love his snarkiness, it’s hilarious.
I don't really like nathanos. I don't hate him, but his comments are unnecessary. In classic it made sense because we were nobodies. In BFA, we've beat the lich king, bested death wing, saved azeroth from demons and much more. And yet, he looks down at us. If he was just neutral and didnt compliment us or shit talk us then fine. I would be fine if he said my race(instead of champion) and didnt thank me for my deeds, but when we are 10 times his strength its kinda insulting for him to pull that shit.
then you should read more comments and read them completely, not just a part. Nathanos is just a shit with plot armor.
Hiru, this video is very well researched. I can tell you're making more of an effort to stick to the black and white of things, as opposed to speculating on the many 'whys" this game has begged since it's development.
Your theories are great, but your research skills are far better.
Tbf, since my main character is a male Blood Elf warlock, I had always interpreted his snarks as him being somewhat jealous of my character getting Sylvana's attention and "praise".
Well, I actually really like him. I only sided with Sylvanas for him tbh.
i think the reason is just like, the old quests from what i have been shown here, were made in a silly lighthearted kind of way, one that people would laugh at. Now instead of being a funny little “okay puny whelp go kill some stuff for me and maybe ill throw your a cracker” its just “go do this because you’re too worthless to do anything else”
although I only have one horde toon that i play as of current bc i havent unlocked my allied races yet, so i could just be completely wrong, but thats how i felt about it from what i, atleast what i *recall* seeing in game but my memory is also so dumb that it will literally create memories that never happened so i mean..
its the difference between a flavorful character and just a plain asshole. Like how you and your friend call eachother pieces of shit and low lives for, idk why friends do that but its fun and i like it lmao, but someone who hates you saying it is rude and annoying and you just wanna punch their face in.
its 2 am forgive my stupidity
Personally, I love Nathanos. His snarkiness, his broodiness, his upfront attitude towards us players. I can't wait to level up my Vanilla hunter so that I can encounter him in his stead and I wish that I played during Cata and had a hunter so that I could quest for him as I did in Legion and BfA.
He was able to match Tyrande because he was probably powered up by the Jailor, just like Sylvanas. And I was glad that he was and stood up to that c@ck tease (btw, I'm a huge Illidan fangirl, therefore I hate the Tyrande/Malfurion power-couple...lol).
I love the Sylvanas/Nathanos love plot twist and I hope that they had a foul blown relationship before the third war and had a love child or two, just like the other two Windrunner sisters had with their human stud muffins.
He is true to his nature and his love and I don't really see why people hate him so much.
Exactly! People hate him for being short-tempered and snarky, but that is exactly what lore-true forsaken are. This is what I want my beloved Horde to be, not “friendship is magic” pussies like Baine or Thrall who wanna befriend alliance after what they’ve done
Because Nathanos was an easter egg, the Aragorn to her Arwen....
Then all of a sudden out of nowhere we are introduced to this character and are given, or rather forced to give a damn about him. When in reality he had little to no actual character development. Instead he is there by virtue of plot armor, going toe to toe with established lore characters that he stole , literally stole screen time from.
All of a sudden the entire horde comunity gets 2 expansions where Sylvs. Boy toy is literally thrown in our face, and we the audience are expected to give a damn about a character who does little more than execute sylvanass orders to the letter....
He isn't a character he is a lazy plot device.
It really has nothing to do with personallity, I generally wish we saw more of the Nat , Sylv Love story, since its kind of a thing now that windrunners have a thing for humans (Abusive elf dad?).
Jokes aside they missed the mark with him, they simply didn't use him as a character, and when someone constantly pops up to order around a fan favorite.... Characters Like Lor'themar haven't gotten any development in literally a Decade, and are pushed aside to make room for nathanos... If they actually used him as a Character with motivations etc he'd be fine. The problem is they waste screen time on a character who LITERALLY could have been replaced by "Warlord Gorgagor the son of Morgagor random orc man warrior person"
I love it when characters are rude like that. It makes them less generic. The more drama, the more interesting it gets.
there is a line. and that line has been crossed
@@Bruh-br6ym But it's just a game, there's no real reason to take anything personally about a fictional character.
@@ChinnuWoW drama for no reason isn't interesting.
What UI mod did you use for this vid? I like keeping a vanilla-style UI bar but i love how much longer it is than the default
Read that short story about him, you'll hate him even more.
Even edgier than in the game.
where? xD
i thik i would never hate that grumpy bastard xD
@@nightmelody777hiatus2 I cant recall the name of it, they (he and Sylvanas) used his nephew's body for him so he could have a human form again. I dont mind him being grumpy but he's just a coldblooded evil dude with no redeeming qualities
I think the problem is that he is such a front and center character. Having a minor character insult you can be fun because it takes you off guard and it differs from what youre used to, but when one of the main characters of an expansion is always peeking over your shoulder and insulting you for every step you take it gets very old very fast.
I love Nathanos, he's one of the only ones that don't lick our boots and egos. I don't mind my character being the "saviour of Azeroth" but it's most of the time too much. Like... It's weird seeing some great characters that saved world multiple times act like we're the higher ones.
I have to agree with you, as someone who also was a fan since the original questing in EP back in TBC. Although I still like the snarky and mean commentary, as it still feels vastly different than 90% of the quest npcs and gives that variety.
Back in vanilla (and now classic), alliance had a kill quest on him. This normally would take maybe 10-15 people tops as if it weren't for 2 major problems.
The first is everytime anything, and I mean ANYTHING restores hp on a player fighting Nathanos (bloodthirst, crusader, hots, bandages, direct heals, etc.) He would summon 2 skeletons that hit really hard and fast. This alone killed healers pretty fast as it would quickly build up to dozens or even hundreds of skeletons swarming the raid.
The second arguably BIGGER problem is that EPL was a high level pvp hotspot. Attacking nathanos would alert world chat and local defense the EPL is under attack. Since he was the only NPC in the zone that could set that alarm off, it was a world alarm that alliance were trying to complete that raid quest and horde en masse would flood the zone to wipe them. The combination of horde and a skeleton army flooding the farmstead made the quest essentially impossible on pvp servers.
Throw on really poor quest rewards as icing on the cake and no one actually killed him on alliance back in phase 1-3 classic and in vanilla.
I rate Nathanos: Cool guy out of ten.
Anything storyline in wow after wotlk should just be considered nonsensical fan fiction by a mentally challenged story writer (who thinks sylvanas is his waifu).
I don't dislike Nathanos because of his abrasiveness; I dislike him because he's a simp.
You should make a video like this for Genn Greymane, like Nathanos he is hated by most Horde and Alliance players alike.
I have no problem with him, been a hunter since day 1. I like him, I would like for him and the dark lady to admit their love for each other.
One of the few interesting characters left in wow
yes
I absolutely love Nathanos.Ive loved him since Vanilla..
Im a big fan of the Love interest plot though too.
Trash does fit you perfectly.
@@zain6008 thank you
I always liked nathanos. Id known of him since i started in wotlk so his abrasiveness i always enjoyed
I like him. didn't know he got that much hate