Herb and Bojack reunite and it is NOT a happy reunion for them... If you want to see the next episode's reaction right now, check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/semblanceofsanity
I'm still thankful for the "Okay. I don't forgive you." scene. My family was not that great growing up. And people are always quick with the "you should forgive them" yada yada. I know it sounds silly. But it never occurred to me that I could say I didn't forgive them. It was a comfort I didn't really know I needed.
I'll say don't forgive them if they didn't change, unless it makes you feel better, but with or without forgiveness you should not forget how they are or attach yourself to them more than necessary
This show reverses what has become a popular trend over decades. Many shows overuse swear words with the idea that they are less impactful if they do that. The Bojack writers decided to use the F word once per season at an important moment. It’s very effective
This was the episode that made me realize how Bojack Horseman was going to be drastically different from all the adult cartoons I've seen. It was probably the first time I've ever seen a piece of media where it showed a character that chose NOT to forgive the character who hurt them, and it's the show's own main character no less, and not antagonize that character for not forgiving them. There's no cheesy pontificating about how "forgiveness" can help you move on and "free" you and whatever and while yes, that is quite true, some people, like Bojack who only asked forgiveness YEARS after he betrayed Herb (and probably never would have visited the guy if he never got cancer), don't deserve that immediate closure. It's not something automatically given to you, it's something that you have to earn. And even then, the people you've hurt will always be not obligated to forgive you, the same as why you're not obligated as well to forgive the people who have hurt you.
The thing that really kills me is that if BoJack's apology hadn't been "I'm sorry because _I feel bad,"_ it might have gone differently. He doesn't know BoJack's only apologising to make himself feel better because he knows BoJack so well. BoJack _told him_ that's why he's apologising - if he'd apologised because he was actually trying to make amends, Herb might have considered accepting it.
20:51 I completely agree. I think that’s the saddest part of the episode, Bojack was in a tough position I don’t completely blame him for making the mistake of betraying Herb though it’s really shity I think it’s understandable but the fact that he made an even bigger more harmful and cruel mistake by abandoning him for 20 years really shows that Charlotte was right about him being a coward. Now the question is will Bojack make an even bigger mistake by not learning from this experience? Considering how many episodes we have left the answer is pretty obvious
Theres barely any reactions to bojack. I'm especially excited for you to see future episodes and how deep and real this story goes because of your guy's insightful and in depth commentary about these characters psyche/motivations.
Agreed. And most of the TH-cam people who are reacting to it are doing an awful job. I'm sick of watching them totally not understanding the show. That's what I like about these two guys, they're getting it
This was THE episode that hooked me on Bojack, the scene where Herb doesn't forgive him followed by the physical altercation had my jaw on the floor. In that moment I realized it was way more than just a silly show about Hollywood animals. One thing I didn't pick up on until much later was the parallel between Herb kissing Bojack and Bojack kissing Diane. A personal and professional relationship grows until one side can't control their romantic attraction, which in turn damages that relationship. Did Bojack "learn" the non-consentual kiss from Herb, is it only in his vocabulary because of that earlier incident? But also, because Herb and Bojack were friends-first, whereas Bojack and Diane are professionals-first, are the two kisses on equal levels of wrongness or is Bojack's kiss on Diane much worse?
I think of it as being a counter to Charlotte saying he's a coward for not saying how he feels about her, and Diane basically saying he was brave encouraged him to do something he thought was not cowardly. By acting on his feelings, he's no longer a coward. Obviously, though, it was a very bad thing to do in this situation.
There's no evidence that Herb kissing BoJack damaged their relationship. Considering that this kiss would have happened during the AIDS crisis, a time of very open public homophobia, BoJack was very understanding about the whole thing. He just tells Herb he's got the wrong idea and pretends to buy the "caught up in the moment" excuse to try and save him further embarrassment, and it didn't seem to affect their friendship at all after that momentary awkwardness. ... It's definitely possible that he expected Diane to react the same way he did when Herb kissed him. Whether he learned it from Herb or not, he knows how _he_ would react if a friend misread the moment and kissed him when he wasn't into it (because it's already happened to him and it wasn't a big deal for him), so he thinks it'll be no big deal for Diane either if he's also missed the mark.
Man, Herb not forgiving Bojack thunderstruck me with how realistic it is. Sometimes you won't be forgiven and you have to live with that. That can be a tough pill to swallow and you can either continue down that path of self distruction, continue as the person you were, or you can work to better yourself. And that is hard! On the reverse, I still struggle with some resentment and even shame. I was abused as a child by a classmate, who I thought was my friend, to the point I don't want to be touched at all even to this day. I managed to tell my mom what happened one day and she made sure I never had to be around them again. Still, I pity that person more than anything and I wonder what happened to them to make them like that. Another classmate I had bullied me relentlessly for a long time, but I am glad that they are doing better for themselves. In fact, they are a much better person now and I am glad for that. It's not easy to forgive, and I have mad respect for those who can. I still struggle to this day to let some things go, but I know my abusers probably have no idea/memory of how they wronged me. I hope one day I will have the ability to truly let those things go and be at peace for my own sake. I know that might not work for everyone though.
Like you guys said, he wants to be a good guy but he doesn't want to put in the work, and that's really all there is to it. Whatever things happened to him a kid or since, the simple fact is that he just flat-out can't be bothered to do the right thing for its own sake. He needs to get something out of it. Heck, he didn't even try to apologize to Herb until he thought Herb was cool with him. But Herb saw right through it because he knows how Bojack works, and he had no intention of lifting up guy who's to afraid to stand on his own two feet. Even if Bojack doesn't want to admit it, they both know that without Herb Horsin' Around would never taken off, and Bojack would likely still be screwing around bars trying to make his stand-up routine work. But then I guess Bojack's constant screw-ups is what makes him so relatable. Because just like Bojack, we all like to think of ourselves as "good" and that whatever bad we do should be forgiven because we're "good," and most of us never escape that circular logic because it's convenient.
The episode that turned Bojack Horseman from a very good show to something genuinely one of a kind. There are too many stories (especially sitcoms) where a person does something genuinely awful to someone and then is given closure because feeling bad about it makes them automatically entitled to be forgiven and let off the hook. And being constantly exposed to those stories makes us forget that forgiveness isn't just something people should be giving out "because of the kindness of their hearts" or whatever and that not forgiving people makes us "bad people", it needs to be something *earned.* And Bojack Horseman is a harrowing reminder of that fact.
@@Plexippuspetersi92Agreed. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you alleviate them of guilt. It just means you don't hate them for what they did. Sometimes letting go of that anger can be good for a person. Either way it's entirely the wronged party's decision, and they shouldn't be judged for it.
Sad fact: The creators of the show have said that the use of the word "fuck/fucking" is often used during situations in which Bojack has destroyed a relationship beyond the point of return. This is shown here with Herb, and will be shown again as the series progresses. So essentially, if a character angrily uses the word fuck towards Bojack, it's the shows way of telling you that the relationship is over.
Ooh, this episode is one of my favorites. I'm so ready for ya'll guys to get more invested in this series and experience the later seasons of Bojack. Especially when things get more in-depth on each of these character's issues and flaws and more on Bojack as a person and his self-destructive toxic nature.
A thought that just crossed my mind.... When Angela is talking to Bojack about sacking Herb she says "This is just the start of the Bojack Horseman story" Was this a subliminal message from the writers saying " we are past the setting up part of this show, now we are going to get real. This is the real start "? Or am I reaching?😂😂
Loved this show for years, and yet I didn't think about the fact that Herb helping Bojack so much implied that he might've liked him romantically until watching this. I'm so dumb lmao.
@@Seissmo lol i knew that it was foreshadowing he was gay, but i never even considered that like... the person that knew bojack the most would actually still LIKE him despite his general awfulness, i guess? LMAO
@@slimeball2765BoJack wasn’t that awful back then. I do think Herb had an unrequited crush on him. But a few years into the show when BoJack becomes more of a diva on set, you can tell Herb doesn’t crush on him anymore, but they are (strained) friends.
I took the whole Charlotte saying " I don't think I'm the person Herb is looking for" Simply as her saying she's realised that Herb is gay. I sometimes feel you guys are overthinking some of this show. But I admit I might be wrong 😅 PS... I love your enthusiasm for this show 😻
The worst is that if Bo betrayed Herb he had some good reasons to do that, and probably most of us would have done the same given the choice. Bo made so many mistakes we can't even count them. Well, we'll see them on a board in the 6th season... Some are avoidable, some only because of fate. Some because Bo is stupid. Sometimes because of bad luck. And knowing at the end the whole Bo, we can't fully blame him.
@@brushark9090 I'm also wondering what they'll think of episodes like "Free Churro" and "That's Too Much Man!"? "Time's Arrow" is also one I'm looking forward to, along with them seeing along with the finale.
Hey if you guys want some more adult cartoons to watch, I'd highly suggest something like Moral Orel or Venture Bros, both of them are very good and very underappreciated
Herb and Bojack reunite and it is NOT a happy reunion for them...
If you want to see the next episode's reaction right now, check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/semblanceofsanity
I'm still thankful for the "Okay. I don't forgive you." scene. My family was not that great growing up. And people are always quick with the "you should forgive them" yada yada. I know it sounds silly. But it never occurred to me that I could say I didn't forgive them. It was a comfort I didn't really know I needed.
You should forgive them.
I'll say don't forgive them if they didn't change, unless it makes you feel better, but with or without forgiveness you should not forget how they are or attach yourself to them more than necessary
you are under no obligation to forgive them. I hope you find peace and happiness
Don't forgive unless they change
@@princessemerald849 Oh the abusive people from my childhood are all dead now thankfully.
Ah yes. The episode that made the audience realize that this show was gonna be very different.
This gets said, but after binging these reactions the past episodes where just about as heavy
This show reverses what has become a popular trend over decades. Many shows overuse swear words with the idea that they are less impactful if they do that.
The Bojack writers decided to use the F word once per season at an important moment.
It’s very effective
This was the episode that made me realize how Bojack Horseman was going to be drastically different from all the adult cartoons I've seen. It was probably the first time I've ever seen a piece of media where it showed a character that chose NOT to forgive the character who hurt them, and it's the show's own main character no less, and not antagonize that character for not forgiving them. There's no cheesy pontificating about how "forgiveness" can help you move on and "free" you and whatever and while yes, that is quite true, some people, like Bojack who only asked forgiveness YEARS after he betrayed Herb (and probably never would have visited the guy if he never got cancer), don't deserve that immediate closure.
It's not something automatically given to you, it's something that you have to earn. And even then, the people you've hurt will always be not obligated to forgive you, the same as why you're not obligated as well to forgive the people who have hurt you.
The thing that really kills me is that if BoJack's apology hadn't been "I'm sorry because _I feel bad,"_ it might have gone differently. He doesn't know BoJack's only apologising to make himself feel better because he knows BoJack so well. BoJack _told him_ that's why he's apologising - if he'd apologised because he was actually trying to make amends, Herb might have considered accepting it.
And lo, the first F-bomb was dropped.
First of many
@@umserhumano557 6's not that many...
they don’t just throw them around haphazardly tho, like it’s once or twice a season usually during intense moments
@@beyondviolet Once per season, there is never two fucks a season. They can only give so many. 😂
Man imagine if the stars had aligned and Jacob wore his "Here's the thing" shirt
20:51 I completely agree. I think that’s the saddest part of the episode, Bojack was in a tough position I don’t completely blame him for making the mistake of betraying Herb though it’s really shity I think it’s understandable but the fact that he made an even bigger more harmful and cruel mistake by abandoning him for 20 years really shows that Charlotte was right about him being a coward. Now the question is will Bojack make an even bigger mistake by not learning from this experience? Considering how many episodes we have left the answer is pretty obvious
True. Herb even says he wasn't upset about losing the show. He was upset he lost Bojack and Bojack could have fixed that with a phone call...
Theres barely any reactions to bojack. I'm especially excited for you to see future episodes and how deep and real this story goes because of your guy's insightful and in depth commentary about these characters psyche/motivations.
Agreed. And most of the TH-cam people who are reacting to it are doing an awful job. I'm sick of watching them totally not understanding the show. That's what I like about these two guys, they're getting it
@@jerryhayes9497Yup, i fckn hate the normies
@jerryhayes9497 have you found any other good reactors for this show?
This was THE episode that hooked me on Bojack, the scene where Herb doesn't forgive him followed by the physical altercation had my jaw on the floor. In that moment I realized it was way more than just a silly show about Hollywood animals.
One thing I didn't pick up on until much later was the parallel between Herb kissing Bojack and Bojack kissing Diane. A personal and professional relationship grows until one side can't control their romantic attraction, which in turn damages that relationship. Did Bojack "learn" the non-consentual kiss from Herb, is it only in his vocabulary because of that earlier incident? But also, because Herb and Bojack were friends-first, whereas Bojack and Diane are professionals-first, are the two kisses on equal levels of wrongness or is Bojack's kiss on Diane much worse?
I think of it as being a counter to Charlotte saying he's a coward for not saying how he feels about her, and Diane basically saying he was brave encouraged him to do something he thought was not cowardly. By acting on his feelings, he's no longer a coward.
Obviously, though, it was a very bad thing to do in this situation.
There's no evidence that Herb kissing BoJack damaged their relationship. Considering that this kiss would have happened during the AIDS crisis, a time of very open public homophobia, BoJack was very understanding about the whole thing. He just tells Herb he's got the wrong idea and pretends to buy the "caught up in the moment" excuse to try and save him further embarrassment, and it didn't seem to affect their friendship at all after that momentary awkwardness.
... It's definitely possible that he expected Diane to react the same way he did when Herb kissed him. Whether he learned it from Herb or not, he knows how _he_ would react if a friend misread the moment and kissed him when he wasn't into it (because it's already happened to him and it wasn't a big deal for him), so he thinks it'll be no big deal for Diane either if he's also missed the mark.
25:04 once again they nail an often overlooked part of why bojack does the things he does.
This is the moment this series shifts into the masterpiece if becomes.
And here we are, when Bojack starts to go from a good netflix show to the best netflix show
Man, Herb not forgiving Bojack thunderstruck me with how realistic it is. Sometimes you won't be forgiven and you have to live with that. That can be a tough pill to swallow and you can either continue down that path of self distruction, continue as the person you were, or you can work to better yourself.
And that is hard!
On the reverse, I still struggle with some resentment and even shame. I was abused as a child by a classmate, who I thought was my friend, to the point I don't want to be touched at all even to this day. I managed to tell my mom what happened one day and she made sure I never had to be around them again. Still, I pity that person more than anything and I wonder what happened to them to make them like that.
Another classmate I had bullied me relentlessly for a long time, but I am glad that they are doing better for themselves. In fact, they are a much better person now and I am glad for that. It's not easy to forgive, and I have mad respect for those who can. I still struggle to this day to let some things go, but I know my abusers probably have no idea/memory of how they wronged me. I hope one day I will have the ability to truly let those things go and be at peace for my own sake. I know that might not work for everyone though.
I wish you well, Bakuuren.
Like you guys said, he wants to be a good guy but he doesn't want to put in the work, and that's really all there is to it.
Whatever things happened to him a kid or since, the simple fact is that he just flat-out can't be bothered to do the right thing for its own sake. He needs to get something out of it. Heck, he didn't even try to apologize to Herb until he thought Herb was cool with him. But Herb saw right through it because he knows how Bojack works, and he had no intention of lifting up guy who's to afraid to stand on his own two feet.
Even if Bojack doesn't want to admit it, they both know that without Herb Horsin' Around would never taken off, and Bojack would likely still be screwing around bars trying to make his stand-up routine work.
But then I guess Bojack's constant screw-ups is what makes him so relatable. Because just like Bojack, we all like to think of ourselves as "good" and that whatever bad we do should be forgiven because we're "good," and most of us never escape that circular logic because it's convenient.
The episode that turned Bojack Horseman from a very good show to something genuinely one of a kind. There are too many stories (especially sitcoms) where a person does something genuinely awful to someone and then is given closure because feeling bad about it makes them automatically entitled to be forgiven and let off the hook. And being constantly exposed to those stories makes us forget that forgiveness isn't just something people should be giving out "because of the kindness of their hearts" or whatever and that not forgiving people makes us "bad people", it needs to be something *earned.* And Bojack Horseman is a harrowing reminder of that fact.
@@Plexippuspetersi92Agreed. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you alleviate them of guilt. It just means you don't hate them for what they did. Sometimes letting go of that anger can be good for a person. Either way it's entirely the wronged party's decision, and they shouldn't be judged for it.
This is the perfect series for your style of deeper reactions.
Stay that course. I subscribed to you due to Bojack.
On a more lighthearted note the celebrity stealing club bit is one of my favourite Todd shenanigans
13:42 Ahh the mandatory "at least once per episode" head grab, God how I miss those while watching the series! xD
Wow, you guys brought up a lot that I never noticed. Thank you for that.
I think this episode is where the light starts to shine off of the gem that is Bojack Horseman. You guys are in for a ride.
Sad fact: The creators of the show have said that the use of the word "fuck/fucking" is often used during situations in which Bojack has destroyed a relationship beyond the point of return. This is shown here with Herb, and will be shown again as the series progresses.
So essentially, if a character angrily uses the word fuck towards Bojack, it's the shows way of telling you that the relationship is over.
This is one of the biggest indicators that this won't be your average sitcom
Charlotte is precious and I was so happy to see someone like her enter the show.
This show is such a treat to revisit. Herb is an amazing character too
Glad to see you guys reacting to Bojack Horseman! Wait till you get around Season 3 and 4, those episodes will hit like a freight train.
THERE it is. The first time the show truly goes for the pit of your stomach.
Enjoy!
Ooh, this episode is one of my favorites. I'm so ready for ya'll guys to get more invested in this series and experience the later seasons of Bojack. Especially when things get more in-depth on each of these character's issues and flaws and more on Bojack as a person and his self-destructive toxic nature.
I love the analysis and conjecture. Fantastic reaction yet again.
The Bojack Diane kiss is what really hooked me.
A thought that just crossed my mind....
When Angela is talking to Bojack about sacking Herb she says "This is just the start of the Bojack Horseman story"
Was this a subliminal message from the writers saying " we are past the setting up part of this show, now we are going to get real. This is the real start "?
Or am I reaching?😂😂
Loved this show for years, and yet I didn't think about the fact that Herb helping Bojack so much implied that he might've liked him romantically until watching this. I'm so dumb lmao.
You’d think the kiss would make it a tad more obvious, but I don’t blame you. 😂
@@Seissmo lol i knew that it was foreshadowing he was gay, but i never even considered that like... the person that knew bojack the most would actually still LIKE him despite his general awfulness, i guess? LMAO
@@slimeball2765BoJack wasn’t that awful back then. I do think Herb had an unrequited crush on him. But a few years into the show when BoJack becomes more of a diva on set, you can tell Herb doesn’t crush on him anymore, but they are (strained) friends.
I took the whole Charlotte saying " I don't think I'm the person Herb is looking for"
Simply as her saying she's realised that Herb is gay.
I sometimes feel you guys are overthinking some of this show.
But I admit I might be wrong 😅
PS... I love your enthusiasm for this show 😻
It could mean both simultaneously
Welcome to Bojack Horseman
Bojack is at times an asshole, but he's not evil and there are people he actually cares about.
I assure you that most of the people that we might agree could be considered “evil” still have people they care about. Evil is complicated.
@@christopherlundgren1700 never claimed it's not complicated, simply wanted to point out that Bojack is not evil and cares about a select few.
The worst is that if Bo betrayed Herb he had some good reasons to do that, and probably most of us would have done the same given the choice. Bo made so many mistakes we can't even count them. Well, we'll see them on a board in the 6th season... Some are avoidable, some only because of fate. Some because Bo is stupid. Sometimes because of bad luck. And knowing at the end the whole Bo, we can't fully blame him.
Keep it up guys! Love the content
16:00 Nice mug!
I'm looking forward to your reacting to Bojack's parents.
I've been waitin for this one
Great reaction! What an episode!
finally great reactors to this amazing show! new follower
"You know why come here."
We're here!
I cannot wait to see them react to s1e11.
Same, I’m also waiting for s2e11. They’re gonna cringe themselves into a black hole.
Ah yes, the ending of that episode was probably where I realized that this was going to go deeper than I ever thought it would.
I'm just super stoked to watch literally any of the episode 11s (and ofc the one 15 we got)
@@brushark9090 I'm also wondering what they'll think of episodes like "Free Churro" and "That's Too Much Man!"? "Time's Arrow" is also one I'm looking forward to, along with them seeing along with the finale.
@@peggedyourdad9560free churro is a god damn masterpiece
I hope you'll also watch the "BoJack Horseman Christmas Special: Sabrina's Christmas Wish" between season one and two!
Woah! u guys are watching Bojack, sweet!!
There is only one 'fuck' said every season
I disagree about the kiss scene, I think Bojack reacted well by setting clear boundaries and expectations for their relationship.
am i crazy or 15:54 is this cup big af
It's regular size, Caleb is just tiny
29:00 based
10:28 YES HE DID
21:35
Hey if you guys want some more adult cartoons to watch, I'd highly suggest something like Moral Orel or Venture Bros, both of them are very good and very underappreciated
=). so good