Relational aggression why women hurt each other | Kris Stewart | TEDxPenticton
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2014
- This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. Women are a key part of our modern workforce. They lead men in the formation of small business and more women than men graduate universities. However, success in upper management and the "C" suite still eludes them. Successful executives such as Cheryl Sandberg tell women to "Lean In", but research done by Susan Murphy and Rita Heim suggest that ""Women consistently fail to support other women in the workplace and often actively set out to undermine their authority and credibility."
Kris Srewart will examine causality and shed some light on ways to overcome this behaviour which has huge implications for our national productivity.
Kris Stewart is an accompliished speaker and delivers a powerful message to women in business.
About TEDx, x = independently organized event In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations)
in my experience, no amount of 'kill them with kindness' can override an infinite level of insecurities
Not at all.
Not at all.
Not at all.
Someone has finally said it
They are covert narcissist, snakes 😂 you can’t change them it’s their nature
As a man who predominantly works with women, I see how hateful they are to each other. Very often they will socialize outside of work and then gossip about each other's husbands, homes, weight, finances etc. I don't understand why they pretend to like each other only to stab each other in the back.
Women know so well between them that they hate each other.---Al bundy
I prefer the company of men. Straightforward
@@lisaferreira4848 Preferably dogs.
@@lisaferreira4848 I prefer avoiding women who prefer company of men in workplace.
Men are more straightforward when there is no women around.
One woman is enough to destroy honesty and cause competition.
No soup for you!!!
@@dominiknewfolder2196 Whatever
Perhaps as we are trying to fix boys at an early age to respect girls, we need to start fixing girls at an early age to respect girls.
So very true. America
Needs to teach respect
Maybe there will be less
Mayhem and murder on
Our public streets too.
EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY !
Girls aren't taught to respect anyone, neither girls or boys. We're always putting pressure on men and boys to do the right thing, while hearing complaints about how there's supposedly so much pressure on women and girls. Yet, the messages to women and girls are generally of "empowerment", as in, do whatever makes you happy. There is little out there telling them to respect others, or even to think much of self responsibility or their own future.
Meadow Morph that’s it
@@atticus319 wow its kinda true. i am in rather left social group and healthcare, and young woman dont care if there is any need to there studies, if they get ajob with it, the travel about 2-3 as much as the male students i know do. the male think about from the first day not will these subject make me happy but will i have chance on a job do provide food for me and maybe somone else. i mean dont just take a job for food that makes you terrebly unhappy. but maybe we should start teach girls that.
cause more and more woman are at college 70 percent girls.
but more and more dont know what to do with it.
last its true men now get taught dont be selfish respect everyone else, will young woman are taught you can have it all, if not the system is sexist, and yourself is very important.
People who need you to coddle them just so they don't become passive aggressive towards you are not people worth your time.
I swear asian people on youtube have all their priorities in order.
Unfortunately, theyR ALL over :-(
This. At some point, all the coddling in the world won't be enough for those sorts of people. You will then feel their wrath.
Amen! Coddleing narcissists are a waste of time
Bravo i could not say it better. I concur
The best woman employer I ever had insisted on saying I worked with her, not for her. We ended up working together for over 20 years until a family situation caused the business to close. The woman was a marvel at making us all feel valued. The happiest 20 years of my life!
You have been blessed. Am jealous but lovingly so x
@@marciamcgrail5889 Yes, blessed and how I miss those days.
@@christinekaye6393 ...often only a once in a lifetime experience that many of us only get a tantalising glimpse of. Treasure your memories x
Sounds like an exception, not the rule.
@@wendysbrian1 Sadly, yes. She is an exceptional woman in many ways--not perfect, but very close to it.
I resigned from a relatively prestigious career because of the female to female aggression. Now I have a very mundane job but I get to work alone and I’ve never been happier.
Give me a male boss over a female boss any day!! I've had many of each. Most of my men bosses were calm, business like, conflict- solving and approachable. There were exceptions but that was the rule. It was the opposite with the women. Most of my female bosses were insecure, unpredictable, conflict-provoking, and unapproachable. I had only one woman boss who was great to work for. I don't know if that's unusual, but that was my experience.
Totally agree. For 5 years I had one woman manager in a 40 year nursing career that was nurturing of my career and ambitions in a calm, business-like, conflict-solving, approachable way. I felt bereaved when she retired.
The rest ditto your experience.
I have a female boss right now. She’s great. Up until now...I feared having female bosses. In the past, when I had male bosses...when/if they got mad at me, I knew to avoid them for the day...then we were good the next day. In the past, when I had female bosses...when/if they got mad at me, I knew to start looking at the classifieds.
This doesn't work with bullies. They have low self-esteem and they aren't happy until they have destroyed anyone they deem "better" than they are.
The fear in narcissist bullies is truth being exposed. Narcissists feed on weak. Her words might help with self-centered/narcissists. 10:07 Her solution - includes using soft words to women 'excuse me, you know, right'.
Common sense and decades of government statistics prove that solo moms greatly increase mental illness in children. #1 Solution - children need to be raised with their bio father. Fathers teach independence and survival. Solo moms are modeling government dependence and tyrant emotional impulses/ relational aggression. Solo mom homes are narcissistic one-sided environments.
Female aggression 0:43 'known saying in medical arena - Nurses eat their young.'
Hmm really ...cause I work with someone I think a bully tries to belittle me then smile in my face like she like me or that I like her
..
My assistant manager in a nutshell
Jealous insecure women. I have been at the receiving end of vicious women on numerous occasions in the workplace. Yup women can be the worst co-workers. Everything you described I, too, have experienced..
New Hope Rising I will say there are three sides to every story but this is what I believe. If a woman is hired to be a manager and there might be other women she is to manage, then she must have a manager behind her that clearly gives her the authority to do the job she is hired to do. I’m ALL ABOUT A GOOD GIRL GANG, but NEVER going to dim my light or doubt myself to appease another’s insecurities. NEVER! I’ve worked with too many bullies and had a mean girl gunning for me that caused me years of havoc.
I’ve experienced this for 20 years. You have to develop a tough skin.
If these are the tactics it takes to work with women, I’m out. This is nuts. You shouldn’t have to pet your coworkers. You go to work to do your job. Period.
Amen.
agreed !!
Absolutely agree on this one why should I have a different code for women than for men
amen
I agree..... unfortunately when u work with women with fragile ego's h may have to treat them like that.
As someone who was bullied by a female co worker at a past job and did the "solutions" she recommended as it comes pretty naturally to people pleasers it did not help at all. I was overly friendly and nice to this woman and she was cold, mean, and insulting to me from the first day I got hired. I spoke with our supervisor about her lying about me, pushing me and being rude and he said "I'm too busy to deal with all that. Just be nice to her." I quit after a month. Typically if that behavior is being tolerated in the workplace then the place as a whole or at least the managers are bad as well.
Right!!!! Exactly!!!!
Some of the worst bullying I've ever experienced in my life was in the workplace from female colleagues. In fact it was so bad, it's part of my cptsd issues & I've struggled to go back to work because of those experiences
same
As a man it’s horrible to see women doing this to one another. In the past I’ve been in workplaces that have been highly female dominated and have also witnessed women bullying other women. I hate it.
Women can be supremely horrible to other women and how do I know this? I'm a woman. it's bad out there. I'm sorry, please take care of yourself, because some women will try to beat you down so they can feel like they won or they are on top somehow. It's sick but it's very common.
@@r0ll3ddyeah It's terrible
I don't agree that I need to bring my self esteem down to someone else's level. If other women are insecure and feel horrible about themselves, why should I mirror that? To protect myself from them? It is not a healthy mindset. If my confidence scares them, that's a problem with them not me. Confident women build each other up. Insecure, self loathing women lash out and tear down. I can feel confident about myself while being kind and loving and know that if they lash out at me, it is just their insecurities. Insecurity is the killer among women. That is why they feel the need to level the playing field. I will not mirror insecurity to protect myself.
Yes, honey. Preach!
Exactly. Most women have issues. Egotistical insecurity
Agree!!!!
Bravo 👏👏
True, we don't get to make friends with losers. We have to fight them
I can sooo relate. Women on women aggression began in my family of origin with a mentally ill Mum. This power imbalance (mothers who eat their young) has adversely affected all areas of my life. Passive competition by gossip and gaslight.
Pull yourself up & think deep and hard next time you think of slumming it in work, friendships, family & relationships. SLUMMING will surround you with people who want what you have. Resent you for having it.
People who have what YOU want are too busy leading their lives to resent you for being YOU.
STOP SLUMMIN' IT
I don’t think any mother would hate their daughters or compete with them maybe they do prefer son more but they love them all the same love is buried into the mother heart for her kids
@@narmeenulfdfd3993 there are some women who have children just because they can but that doesn't make them mothers. Mine was toxic. She hated her children professionally.
@@marciamcgrail5889 What makes a mother HATE her own children?
@@narmeenulfdfd3993A Son is a blessing. Girl is curse simple as that.
My grandpa used to always say , “Most women want all other women dead but themselves “... as a teenager I didn’t understand what he meant . As soon as I hit 30 , I heard him loud and clear. I think I was somewhat sheltered as a child and didn’t realize how cruel women could be even for simply having on a pretty dress. Even so-called friends” can’t stand tall unless you’re on your knees”.... I’m glad I’m not like that but I hate that women can’t just bask in their own success without being bitterly opposed to another woman’s....
I know that at the teenage years what your grandpa said is definitely true rare to find woman don’t hate other woman
Exotic :Well no one ever said patriarchy was good for women so i guess lets do away with a system that socializes women this way?
@@pietersteenkamp5241 its their nature
@@bluffem Nature, the normally mistaken explanation of anything for people who know nothing.
@@pietersteenkamp5241 It's always the patriarchy's fault, even when women are the ones holding other women down lmmfao.
I don’t agree that I have to dim my light so others don’t feel slightly. Shine your light bright so others can feel the freedom to do the same. Let’s all be the best versions of ourselves. Women don’t need to downplay their strengths to make other women feel better. This is not how we support each other. Shine your light sisters!! We are in this together - support and encourage each other to be the best we can be!!
Thanks for this comment!
sounds good but in fantasy worlds
I completely agree. But reality is very different.
Agreed 🙌🏽
I did that and I lost all my friendships. Reality gives you a nice punch in the face.. I've got used to being alone now.
If you look different from the rest they tend to judge u pretty harshly.
True
Like Kris did with her poor employee?
Yeah
You just summed up American culture.
@@paulclinton6414 that's everywhere
If you are a more calm, welcoming type it gets registered as a victim by jealous women at work
I completely agree
thank god im not a woman XD
Honestly as a woman I think one of the root causes of why women are so toxic to each other is because they’re so high strung and neurotic. They take every single possible word, action, look, whatever detail and hyper analyze and scrutinize it, and gossip about these things endlessly among themselves. Women with more relaxed and laidback personalities are much, much, much better to be around and not toxic whatsoever. You just have to learn how to differentiate these two kinds of women, and stick to the latter. With the former, you just have to try to stay as simple and polite as possible, and endure it
What do you think causes that neuroticism?
I'm definitely the latter type that you described.
She mentioned at the beginning that the young lady was morbidly obese. What does that have to do with anything? Her speech begins with a shaming tactic. Is SHE engaging in relational aggression herself? YES!
She's still angry with that woman
I had the same thought. Just commented something similar.
She works in health care...I'm sorry but if you're in healthcare and morbidly obese, I do think that is not a thing to be proud of. You're kind of setting an example for your patients so to speak. I certainly want to avoid that.
Like it or not obesity suggests a lot of mental issues, addiction, laziness, week determination...
@@illiatiia yeah thin, suggest healthy to some extent, and didn't suggest any problems at least. And if you noticed I said "suggest" not "means". We are judgmental creature, creating stereotypes help us make a decision fast and effortlessly, that's how our brains work.
What she says is SO spot on! Especially her advice at the very end. I was rather blindsided by a very toxic female supervisor at a University in a mostly female department. Prior to that role, I had been working in the corporate sector with mostly men as a Finance & Business Operations professional. I’m SO horrified and traumatized by the absolute sociopath (a passive aggressive, manipulative, conniving back-stabbing gossip) who I reported to, that I will always PAUSE before considering working for a female & in a mostly female environment EVER again!
I totally agree! I also have experienced working in a couple of jobs with a woman as my supervisor/management that have no leadership capabilities and just manipulate, lie and tell you what to do. Not to mention her favorite pets that do nothing but gossip and tattling.
Without a doubt!!!
I needed to hear this. I too worked in the health system and understood the main game was never the work or patient care but a mystifying system of power which I would never play even if I could.
Ten years in the medical field and had to quit from the stress of lack of team work with women, back stabbing and gossiping. There really needs to be zero tolerance for gossiping (bulling) and training on team work ( having each other's backs).
Agreed. I work in the NHS as a bank nurse and get to this the dynamics on the ward. There is always one hca/nurse running the ward. Never the manager.
You can be a good example but you CAN'T change people. You have to have boundaries in life. In a toxic environment you have to learn how to nurture yourself. You can help people and love yourself at the same time. If things get out of hand and it drains you then look for ways to move on.
I had this problem in all my jobs. Even working in a management level... what also often happens is when the play the boss.
Another strategy, when you complain about respectless behavior, is to spread rumors about your mental health, saying you are sensitive, to demoralize and discredit the victim voice.
I remember being tired of this and deciding to be a freelancer. What happens in my main profession is that it takes an amount of effort also working just for certain period of time to know new people, gain trust and etc.
I am about to quit the job that could be my dream job, where I planned to stay till retirement. The reason? Explained by the video above!
Yeah no thanks I’m not gonna fake it. Women can attack me for being confident but there’s no need to make myself insecure to COMFORT an insecure woman. Take care of yourself that’s not my job.
Starbee to be honest even woman who is confident and have high esteem they just don’t like to see other woman happy particularly with her husband that why you see a lot of woman taking other woman husband or just ruin the relationship by saying men are assholes don’t listen to your husband be independent strong women work full time which most of men don’t like that
They not happy unless you feeling the pain of it. God does not want us to worry about what other's think about us,move on and be happy! Ppl who truly love us in our lives will be back. I think we all go through this or know someone who does on a daily basis. Live one day at a time and be happy! Even if it means leaving some toxic friends. We women need to stick up for each other with out the game playing. Get along and help each other out.
Very true
Love this!
Raise your hand if you personally feel victimized by Regina George.
The ''good'' thing in that situation is that RG was vile to everybody! In real life, the reginas will target the odd woman here and there so that they are generally perceived to be ABSOLUTELY LOVELY!
@@SusanaXpeace2u You got that right.
I first learned of this about ten years ago when my girlfriend would get home from work & everyday she would be complaining about a female coworker. A lot of the time she would be upset about something that sounded like nothing to me. I thought she was paranoid; boy, was I naive. Navigating that psychological mind field sounds like a nightmare.
So glad I’m a man!!!
I've noticed women copy the body language of others. Stand on one's tail and the nest of vipers will bite and bite!
Let's not pretend relational aggression doesn't happen to men.
Cheers Shane, proud to be a man !!! yeyyy
@@craigmunday3707 I've been around boys' social circles (my little brother's, classmates', and friends'), the pressure, passive aggressiveness, pettiness, and gossip are ALL there. it might express itself in different forms, about different topics and be represented differently in media, but boy it's there
@@briciolaa sounds like projection to me. It's well accepted that relational aggression is predominantly perpetrated by women and girls. Feminists routinely deny that women target men by saying that relational aggression is only girl on girl abuse, just like this video does. Your comment is just deflection
Because this behaviour is non agressive its never talked about and it's very damaging. I have seen it happen to other women and it has also happened to me. I call it toxic femininity
"Toxic femininity is definitely as real as it gets. It is horrible because its so sneaky most of the time that if you try to explain it you end up looking crazy or paranoid or even being accused of slandering the other womans character by painting her in such a sinister light. But what if they really ARE that sinister? The only thing to do is make a way to diatance yourself from these types because the degree of stealth which they use to do their harm makes it nearly impossible to confront the issue head-on in a civilised manner.
Unfortunately, for most women this is instinctive behavior and they don't know any better
"She was morbidly obese, but we overlooked that." I highly doubt the enlightenment of anyone who would utter that statement.
I turned it off and went to the comments after I realized that had nothing to do with the conversation. Lost all respect
She talks about women being passive aggressive and she’s doing it on a stage herself. Smh
@Heather Rae, INHC She,herself,remind not a business lady,but an actress,who is tring to much with her gestures,and just missing the moment,if man in first story was really partner,not boss,he couldn`t fire her,
It was her honest truth.
Just because she believes it, doesn't make it a truth.
As a man it’s horrible to see women doing this to one another. In the past I’ve been in workplaces that have been highly female dominated and have also witnessed women bullying other women. What I don’t understand is how women can be so caring, empathetic, supportive of each other (generally speaking more so than men) and yet on the other hand the completely vile to one another.
A large part of that has to do with the fact that girls are socialized from a young age to compete with each other for outside validation from other, including men.
There's been a lot of discussion in society about toxic masculinity, and that's an important subject that needs to be talked about. But this video underscores that toxic femininity is very much a thing as well, and it also needs to be addressed.
Pick friendships that lift you up, support you in your progress, and you do the same for them.
I can only go by my personal stats. 9 male bosses - 8 were great - relaxed, look after you, the worst quality they had was maybe incompetence, but super nice people. 1 was narcissistic but we're still friends. Had 5 female bosses. 4 were despicable creatures, intensely jealous, ineffective and petty. So as a woman, do I think women sabotage each other? YES. Is this why men do better? Yes. I swore to myself I will never lower myself to their level.
Yes, I'm living it now. agree with you 100%. The speakers methods don't work.
Jua D Men are nicer in every situation. I had a great Dad, step-father, and I have a great son and husband. Go figure. 🤷🏼♀️
My professional experience has been similar, with similar ratios.
no,that`s just mean,you felt envy to women bosses,and male bosses were more relaxed for 2 reason-they became more easily bosses,in man-privileged society,and 2 -they didn`t see rival in you,thinking,you can never take theirs place-that`s all.
@@MsAmgrace A famous person once said " Women nowadays want to wear the pants, but they don't have the figure for it!
It’s exhausting working with women and sometimes being friends with them. This is one of the reasons I’m going into STEM - male dominated and tends to draw less of these types. With friendships, I look for women that don’t take themselves too seriously. I’ve encountered too much bad behavior from women, mostly in the form of tear downs to mask their insecurities and to attempt at making themselves look better. It’s not your or my job to put band aids on people’s egos while they happily throw rocks at you.
STEM is legendary for men discriminating against women.
Have had a similar experience. Women bully other women.
Narcissists hate kind gentle people. I have been a victim of medical abuse so good for her for admitting her professions faults.
MrHotPinkBanana n
MrHotPinkBanana u
@MrHotPinkBanana Yeah but then you're being completely ingenuine and you're basically building relationships off of a lie and you can never show your 'real self' - but it comes out in different ways. I can't imagine you being that self aware.
I think that's playing into it...Building other women up is a great idea...But playing all the "girl rules" doesn't necessarily make everything better.
Great point, Kris Stewart ! I've never seen anybody , especially a woman , talking about it that boldly and straight to the point. I've experienced that at many work places at the biggest companies in the world and Canada. You can't solve a problem without mentioning what the problem is. Thank you
I went through the same bloody experiences all along my life. But betrayed by women who were supposed to be friends. Nice talk and nice woman but it is impossible to deal with women that are jelous and want everybody in the same level. Your mother was right, jelousy is the problem and there is no way to deal with this sort of women. Just quit them, get away.
I can relate to this woman on getting fired for little or no reason at all. I will say being nice, respectful, and kind has gotten me nowhere in the workplace. No matter how hard I work or how kind I am women will just NOT let mesucceed. They will find petty reason to fire me or harass me to the point of foolishness. This world can be a cruel UNFAIR place. I honestly could not get effective advice out of this video.
Such a good speech. I've been hurt and backstabbed by so many other women for one reason or another all my life, and it's hard to trust nowadays. Very sad.
YES!! I quit the medical profession and I won't look back. I even loathe being a patient.
Yes. I worked in Health Care for decades. I had back surgery and got one of those "Psych O Nurses" and had the Hospitalist, a woman, expel her from my room and Case.
Real talk
So glad someone agrees!! Worst profession ever.
@Brandy Nicole check out my post recent post above....there are minefields to manuever through in the healthcare field.
I worked in the healthcare field for 33 years. I didn't intend to retire 2 1/2 years ago at barely 62. I hold multiple advanced degrees and decades of experience, but my last position I worked with a narcissistic personality disordered colleague who targeted me, and that was it. I persisted and fought for my position with everything I had, but these people are extremely toxic, manipulative and feed off of destruction, lies and vengeance. There is no solution. Administration was afraid of her and she created allies. My health suffered. In hindsight, I should have left as an act of self-care and preservation. No job or money is worth enduring toxic abuse.
I love how you openly reference her weight for no reason and insist *she* was the one engaging in relational aggression.
Yeah. Perhaps she has a problem with this other lady's success?
Kinda ironic that her problems were everyone elses fault. Not saying shes wrong, but its always suspicious.
there we go.........ironic
yea
BWAHAHAHAHA.. I was wait what..did she just say morbidly obese or was it just my ears lying to me
"She was morbidly obese but we hired her." This talk is a woman throwing other women under the bus.
The bus was a write off.
This statement surprised me. I’m not sure why it was included as it didn’t seem to come back into play with the situation or final outcome.
This speaker seems to be the one with the problem to me. She seems to have a sort of superiority complex and comes off as a little grandiose. Perhaps colleagues intuit this.
When was the last time you saw a morbidly obese woman in Healthcare?
I was taken back as well by that statement, what does the weight have to do with the story?
Well, just because someone is insecure, low self-esteem, doesnot mean I have to take myself down to their level, I have enough problem of my own. Why give compliment to someone that does not respect other's personal spaces? I couldn't agree with the idea from this video.
Paying a compliment cant hurt your self esteem
Self-esteem is irrelevant in the workplace... at least it was, until women started working
This is about women.... However, I say wow to your male partner in your past business... that he fired you...he failed to 'Communicate' with you about the employee that was complaining... That was not a partnership, unfortunately.
Don't you think that he too might've been another indirect victim to the hostile female?
@@leahx1701 systemic? BS
@@leahx1701 no, no it's not
Maybe there's more to that story, but I smelled something off as soon as she told it. How does one "fire" their business partner? Did she actually just believe they were partners, when in truth she was an employee as opposed to a partner?
Mys Led No since he fired her he’s even worse than the hostile female
Gender aggression is mostly due to socialization and this starts as early as age 3. Even though men are apt to inflict direct physical aggression, IMO, it's not as bad as the indirect psychological and social aggression that women are apt to inflict on others. In fact, indirect psychological and social aggression can negatively affect your physical and mental health. To be blatantly honest, female aggression can be cruel and immature. Of course men can do this to, but I'm basing this off of what I learned in my Social Psychology class and my personal experiences. Anyhow, psychological abuse can last a lifetime, depending on how severe it is and humans are social by nature. It's not easy to be rejected by your social group and acquiring new genuine friends can take awhile, especially w/ our overuse of social media.
I get your point, but bro do you have an idea why is it that way, I mean, is there some biological or genetic reason behind it you think?
@@gokselbilici2227 my theory is if the women are colleagues its to compete for resources and status. If its a manager or person who hired the female its being the gatekeeper. Men do this too. Its not a female only phenomena.
yess
she is amazing. she is a powerful woman, and yet confesses that she spent a year unable to finish sentences. having experienced this exact horror myself, I am so encouraged and empowered to see her impressive career!
I don't think the level playing field works with female bullies because they are always seeking to ascend or prevent a target from achieving any success in the work place. It's the Queen Bee and Wanna bee's scenario. Without being paranoid it seems that you have to watch your back and have an exit strategy, or a way to deal with betrayal. I've worked with wonderful supervisors who deserve their positions because they care about others, the workplace, and follow whats going on and know how to deal with girl drama. Good supervisors don't ignore, or excuse what they see. However I worked for backstabbers, scheming, bitches who will never change their behavior.
And women talk about men repressing them when they do it to themselves just fine. I don’t have a PHD but I know that this behavior is instilled at a young age in a girls life.
It isnr "rife". It happens but most women do not carry on like this. It's happened to me twice in my lonh life.
Ive seen it in multiple workplaces with women whose agression is focused on women and men. My fathers family has 6 men and 2 women(uncles and aunts) the women are ridiculously aggressive and yet play the victim.
@@if131 I am reading Pete Walker's book about CPTSD and there are four responses to trauma or stress. One of them is 'Fight' and one of them is 'Fawn'. I think it is a hybrid between Fight and Fawn that produces the charming bully type. She is the minority though. I know TWO women who carry on like this (to me) and I know a lot of women, hundreds more than 2. I do not buy in to any misogynist narrative that women are all just tearing each other down. We are not. But some women are conditioned to be passive aggressive rather than direct. Their brothers are allowed to be direct expressing their needs. Some women are unsurprisingly very threatened by other women who possess a quality they admire. Fear and scarcity mindset produces Fight/Fawn responses to perceived threat.
So she is basically saying the solution to this issue is to pander to these women? Don't try and improve their behaviour, don't highlight the error of their ways, don't educated them... no _you_ need to change to fit in and accommodate them?
Welcome to what men have been complaining about in the dating world for years 😒
@@DeKnight95 I was saying the same thing you stated, just in my head lol.
I find this happens most often with older women. If they have to answer to a man, they're comfortable. If they have to answer to a woman, they take anything she says as rude and pushy. If the woman they answer to tries to soften her approach, it's like blood in the water full of sharks; it makes them react worse. But younger women, especially women who played team sports growing up, they don't as often have that weird desperate need to be the only woman in the room to feel good about themselves. They also don't do that awful incompetency signal where they have a problem that need solving and when another woman steps up to help, they help they are asked for is to go find some man for the person with the problem. I deal with this often when we hire an older woman at work for our outbound clients. The phone rings interrupting my tasks and the older woman will ask me to find my male coworker to help them. I've been in my field 18 years while he's been at it for less than 5 years. Interrupting me to help with a problem is fine so long as you don't interrupt me to go fetch someone with less experience.
It has nothing to do with age
Women: Wants equal pay
Also Women: I'm going to end this women's career!
I don't talk to female co-workers outside of the office anymore. Too much past scars. From catty and snotty women, to having one try to destroy my good name by badmouthing me to everyone (even the place I went to after leaving my OG) to catching a woman and man at my current job make fun of me when I left the room.
feel the same, coworkers are not friends as it usually turns out
I've often had problems with women in the work place. I too was raised as the "second son" to my brother. Nurturing was neither my father's forte nor my mother's. Where I really fell down in working with women was that I refused to gossip. If someone told me a secret, it was a secret. Gossiping in a group of women somehow gives them the idea that they now own your soul. I still can't do it. It's mean and vile and making them look better than that one person they are belittling. And so, I could not be one of the "cool" women. What I did to protect myself was to keep notes. Fortunately, I always had male bosses, and because I was raised as male, I knew how to form a relationship. I also NEVER said anything bad about my workmates. To the boss, I praised them, even when he called me in to fire me. I said "I know Sarah is hard on me but that's alright...she's even harder on herself, so I'm hoping to learn something from her. This was all true. All the praises were true. These women were really good at what they did. If one of them were terribly snappish at me, I would plop myself down and say something like "what's up, Sarah? You aren't your chipper self today". I expected to be yelled at or dismissed. Well, Sarah told me her trouble was that she was going for an Mbs, and working full time was really taking it out of her (she was also organizing her wedding at the time). The first time I did this, I was surprised. However, if I had known these things you spoke of, I think I would have had an easier time of it. I still would not gossip, but I could be caring. The only trouble I always had was when the boss was a woman.
On a true narcissist, caring absolutely does not work. It's like gasoline on the flame.
Sincerely,
An unfortunate, long and recent ordeal.
I started my own business because I don't. Want to deal. With women any longer. Same for my personal life. I don't. Want. Them around me ever again. Always ends up. In tears.. For. Me
Everytime someone days sumthing cruel over the internet it's always a women.
Amen
MGTOW4LIFE
As a model AND newly published author, I can attest that other women are extremely intimidated and jealous. If I were not attractive but successful, it’d be easier. Being considered more beautiful than the average woman, with a fit toned body, with skills and success....it’s been rough to say the least! As for now, I guess I’m grateful for men& strangers. To get those sales, it’s odd I had to NOT put pics of myself on my websites. It makes people more comfortable. Because, let’s face it, most avid readers in my genres are women. But in the open, I don’t hide myself and I won’t. I refuse to be less so that others feel more.
😖💪💯
dealing with this or atleast trying
Have you removed the pics of yourself on your website? Or dimmed the light to look less attractive and notice a difference?
and people think that good looking people have it better. They don't understand that some beautiful people get bullied and attacked out of jealousy.
Facts
good golly miss molly. even the solution to this problem is unethical and disturbing. so you want to solve relational aggression by being more relationally-aggressive? weird. super weird.
I'm glad somebody else caught this. The games will never stop if women twist themselves into passive-aggressive pretzels instead of communicating honestly and in good faith. I bet this woman was/is awful to work with.
Justin Hahn Agreed. Not gonna play this game.
the best tactic is to look for another job but the problem is also that people aren't voting for better working conditions and better pay.
Women being women
Lord I have experienced this. I have been gas lite the worst by female coworkers and bosses than I have from men (one I thought was s friend).
The proposed solutions are like a bandaid for a much deeper core issue. Instead of telling women how to adapt to this messed up social dynamic, shouldn't we be talking about how to raise up little girls in a healthier social environment? Or how we need to address professional and social imbalances between men and women? I still don't quite understand how the gossip and undermining equates to leveling the playing field for women. Is it because they feel like they need to do that to be on a level playing field with men?
The field for men and women each have their own bumps. Just solving women's issues won't fix the overall problem
Instead of bringing everyone up to 70 they want to pull the 70 down to 40 to make everyone even.
So you found a way to blame men for this? Bollocks!
This is so depressing- the answer to this systemic soul-destroying aggression is essentially to pander to it and debase yourself? I am a senior (female) emergency room doctor and I have to say this behaviour is absolutely rife in the hospital environment. My job is almost unbearable now, the more senior I’ve become: not because of the abuse from patients (which everyone who has been to an ER will recognise as a problem) but from the abuse from other members of staff. There is certainly a lack of respect for female doctors from male doctors and other staff. But the passive aggression from female (mostly junior to me) staff is staggering. I am not a strict/cross/angry/intimidating woman. In fact I’m probably too meek for the job I’m doing. But for patient safety, someone has to be in charge and make the decisions and that person is me. I have had to change my whole persona to do this job effectively and I now hate the person I’m becoming: shrewish and frustrated and simply disappointed. I don’t know how to break the cycle and I can’t continue in the work (that I love and am good at!) unless I become one of them. I’ve had to drop my hours to part time as my whole life was suffering from this phenomenon. 🤷🏻♀️
The same in the education field. Rarely is it the kids,it’s the adults. A profession with too many women. The gossip, backbiting, and conniving is unreal. 😢
The speaker is so sweet. She seems the peace maker kind of person, with extreme patience, despite being bitten more than twice.
So I've listened to this while cleaning my kitchen... my conclusion... this women is the problem -- in every situation she gets pushed out. Everyone can't be that wrong ;-)
exactly
I tried to mirror the confidence level and offer favors to women at my previous workplace. The bullying only became worst afterwards and I was called "fake" completely ostracized to the point no female who worked there would look me in the eye. The problem is with the ones in charge. If they turn a blind eye or worse participate in the bullying behavior, it wont stop.
I am 30 and have managed women at least 10-15 years older than me for the past 6 years.
I have a very tough time to get them to get along and not be petty/mean to each other. It’s quite ridiculous.
I don’t understand it as my personality is the absolute opposite of mine.
Very interesting TedTalk, thank you!
Um it’s not just the workplace. Women are cruel to anyone who has something she doesn’t.
And that ‘chip pile’: it can be torched in an instant if she feels justified in doing so.
My mother told me a long time ago that women turn into a bunch of bitches in a group. I didn't believe her. Later I had to learn that the hard way. This gives a really good insight into something I always wanted to understand, since I'm a man.
Almamater ... exactly!!
Crab Mentality?
It can be passive aggression within us. It can be wrong picture of ourself. It can be low confidence. It can be a something complicated within us. We can’t always blame others. Sometimes we need to know yourself better and find out what kind of energy we radiate around those people.
You have to be really careful with women. Especially the narcissist ones. You have to be careful with your words and don't work too hard because you are offending them. If they gossip or bad mouthing someone, just listen and pretend you're agreeing. Also, don't be pretty. Try to blend by wearing plain clothes so you don't stand out. You can wear make up but keep it simple. Don't be likeable and friendly too. Again, it will offend them. These are the things you have to do if you are surrounded with a bunch of girls. Or, If you have self respect, leave.
I do not agree with the solutions. I am happy to read so many comments by others, that people watching this don't want to put on an act to be on the same level, or manipulate. I am sometimes shy and very sensitive, but I would always prefer to be told things directly than coated in manipulative fluff and bs. I would way rather be told something even a bit angrily and directly. Preferrably not angrily but I'd rather have the anger with honesty than the manipulation and not really saying what they really mean. That hurts a million times more.
Leveling the playing field is another word for Equality.
It’s a social system of manipulation and control that suppresses individual uniqueness and creates an unsafe and toxic environment, especially for those who refuse to conform.
All of my female bosses made my work in the corporate world difficult. I am a single, well-spoken, attractive and confident woman which people would suggest as reasons they may be intimidated by me and jealous. I could not fathom the idea of a superior being jealous or intimidated by me because I was never after their jobs or anything of the sort. I would often say it's the management (not true leaders) that make the work place unbearable and the job difficult but it just might be the women. I have since left corporate America and started my own company and after listening to this talk I vow to foster harmonious workplace relationships amongst all of my employees.
The Culinary School Dropout that's what makes you a leader and not just a boss.
I hope the speaker is a lot happier and healthy! I could really feel the pain when she said she struggled for a year after losing her position in the company she co-founded.
Somehow the pain and hurt is very serious when a woman hurts another woman. It comes no where close to the pain a man inflicts.
That's true. Yet, what some people mostly female commenters, on this thread have to say is, "Why say the employee was morbidly obese?".
I know how Kris feels. I've had two women tank my career. I'm poorer than I should have been now because I got fired twice, too. I would give anything for women to mentor each other and befriend each other, rather than stab everyone in the back.
Yeah, I just don't trust women anymore. In academia, I've been screwed out of awards simply because of another woman feeling intimidated by me. I once lost an award for Co-aauthoring a project with a male student and this other female student who turned out to be a backstabbing viper, and guess what? She got the credit and said I didn't' contribute (I did) and the guy pushed for me to be named as a "contributor". He said at least I would get a little bit of recognition. Had he not been in our group, the woman would have shut me out of any recognition. Guaranteed.
I wish more women would talk about things like THIS affect their careers instead of the supposed wage gap.
I don't know where this lady grew up but at my school the pretty blond girl always got the best dress in the dressing up box and there was no thought of a level playing field. It was those who demanded that got and the rest of us took what was left! I don't think its the case that we start out caring and unlearn it, only that children are naturally narcissistic and some people just never grow out of it. Also I do think that men can be the worst gossips and bitches in the workplace, it just gets overlooked when they do it!
I enjoyed the presentation, but can’t understand why she had to add in her first story about her employee “she was morbidly obese but we overlooked that.”
Being morbidly obese reflects your character. It's indicative of being lazy and entitled. Cases of chronic obesity that can't be fixed with simple diet and exercise are rare at worst. It relates directly to hiring, especially if there is any amount of physical labor involved in the job. Obese people are less productive on average than healthy people. Why should you be trusted to work for someone else if you can't work for your own self improvement?
Im a male Nursing Supervisor and i have female employees scream at me at least once a week. If i ever did the same thing id be walked out of the building. But when a female does such a thing its just understood as well im not sure what, but the meltdowns and screaming go on week in and week out.
I do like how right away the speaker blamed her male boss. That was heroic and explains more why the speaker isn't a C suite leader.
We're just animals. Survival of the fittest.
But were not just animals were humans and we would get nowhere if not for working together sharing information teaching each other and combining resources, acting in a community. none of us are an island.thats why most animals just survive and humans prosper and build and get better with every generation
yes, animals. crabs to be exact. what do you think happens when a crab wants to get out of a bucket? other crabs drag it.
The problem is not women , is people insecurities and men are the same way believe or not. They just don't talk about it as much.
No, men don't sabotage each other for no reason anywhere near as much as women do. Men generally support each other and when they do have conflict it is direct and therefore easier to deal with.
That woman got fired, not because she hired a woman and they're aggressive in a certain way, but much more strongly because she hired an alimentive. Even male alimentives use relational aggression. People should have seen the red flags of an alimentive when she was shirking work!
Dan Zhukovin true also
alimentive?
Thank you for notice this, both genders do this!! I’m tired of people saying women are the only one who do this. People, no matter what gender, will compete with each other.
Thank for mentioning this stuff about biological personality types, because I was unfamiliar with it, and it was really interesting.
To be caring in a world like today is to show true discipline.
I think a lot of cattiness is based on looks, youth, social power, and the status of the men they get. Women compare each other too much. Women don't know how to talk, work, socialize, etc. without sizing each other up. Men don't have this problem because men just want to find common ground and get along with one another based on the similarities they have.
Bravo now you know why men are in the ruling position not because patriarchy but better in socializing among us we respect Hirearchy...Women dont
@@moisesfrias1117 Truth
I've tried being nice to narcissistic fellow women or some who have zero boundaries, honestly it ends in disaster. I should have just stayed away from them afterwards be it a family member or work colleague. This is the only thing that has ever worked in my life personally.
That's why I'm happy in a malse dominant profession.
Unfortunately, I so can relate to these kinds of situations. I was pushed out of a number of jobs due to women’s malicious gossip, backstabbing and heavy bullying. There is nothing you can do to fix their insecurities and cattiness. Very sad reality, indeed. 😢
How can you get fired without cause from a company you founded?
Because she didn't "found" the company lol. Giving herself a bit too much credit there - clearly the man was the one who actually took the responsibilities, she just came along and then took the credit
This woman seems so shady!
Yeah that'd exactly what I thought im like if he's your partner aren't y'all equal? How did he just up and fire you🙄😂
She clearly lying no way she found the company and then she got fired by his
“partner “over an employee that was complaining lol,if he was your partner then it means u supposed to be equal ,instead it seem that then”partner “ is in reality the boss .
Problem with appealing to those of the same confidence level: when you encounter someone with a massive ego when you’re relating to the mass of others with low self confidence (as in revealing your flaws etc) the person with the ego sees themselves as even better and now has something to attack.
My ideal job would be to work for a Golden Retriever!
I agree with everything you just said. I have been in the same situation. I am also in a heavily female work force in child care and it is sometimes an impossible struggle. I love this list
I want to point out that this speaker's description of the woman in her first story was to make sure we knew that she was "morbidly obese". Why does that matter in this story? She also says that they "looked past it". Seriously? Again, what in the world does her weight have to do with this story? I find it ironic that the speaker is "complaining" that she was fired from these jobs due to gossip, berating, etc, yet she just did that exact thing on this stage. I don't feel like anyone's worth or value should be measured by how much they weigh or what dress size they wear.
Does anyone else think she may have been the problem? The fact that she’s making passive aggressive statements about her “morbidly obese” employee on a live stage, is enough to see she’s the aggressor. Also, this advice is horrible, why do we have to get on other people’s confidence/self esteem level?
THEN WHY BLAME MEN FOR PUTTING WOMEN DOWN WHEN WOMEN THEMSELVES ARE SO DESPERATE TO PUT EACH OTHER DOWN
I’ve had older women I barely know come after me in the workplace, just for being younger and doing well. Luckily none of them were my direct superiors. I continued to rise, and along the way encourage other young women any chance I get. I have made a decision to take responsibility for my own actions, because bullies are losers and are irrelevant.
A new female coworker joined my team a couple of years ago. We became friends. She and I share tips, coach each other, practice presentations in front of one another. We want the other person to be a success. In this I was very fortunate.
Unfortunately, I have experienced all the things from women everyone is talking about here too.
While I take issue with the recommendations (and implore women to call each other out when we see this behavior + support each other)...this whole “level the playing field” thing makes sense. I’ve always described it as women wanting their “piece of the pie” and feel if another woman has a piece it means less pie for her. Men, on the other hand, feel they can just make more pie.
Women sabotage each other for exactly the same reason men do: envy and all the character traits that go with it.
@MrNorthernSol That´s true, when men sabotage each other they are usually deadly.
@Korean Emperor Really? History is full of traitors. I don´t think you know any woman at all, let alone all of them.
@@alangeorge5592 Sorry Alan but you don't sound like one of the clever ones.
@ᴠʜ0ᴘɪɴɢˊˎ- Sure, history proves it.
My daughter has been slowly destroying me with the worst girl behaviour, I did not understand why, I still don't... she went to a girls school. Devastating effect on families. Thanks for presenting research, this is really useful. It has also been happening in the workplace, unfairly dismissed, cannot be too good at your job as a woman.
People, listen to your gut instincts, intuition, inner GPS.
Women are important and competent and beautiful in what they do. If you are right handed does that mean you don’t need your left side? Of course not. Yes, men built this system by getting A LOT of things wrong and they built it because there were women that raised them and supported them. My teachers, my caretakers, my co workers were ALL WOMEN. If a man doesn’t like me or I don’t like him we are more direct, even if we fight each other. With women you NEVER hear the end of it.
I dont think this is a woman issue I think it's both genders. People that hurt others.
Yes it's a complex psychological issue that our social and hierarchical structure supports.
It's predominantly a women's issue. It's technically possible for men to engage in this kind of behavior, but it is rare. Every woman in my family has stories like these about work continuously, hardly ever happens to the men I know. Men have a better grasp on the concept of respect because we HAVE to work for a living. Women get to choose if they'd like to work or not. We will never be equal
@@xraceboyex @Brian Emmett I personally work in a male dominant environment. some days I can't get my work done bc of them coming into my office gossiping or trying to make themselves look good by pointing out someone else's mistakes. thats very small minded to think its only women.far as your comment about women can stay home and not work.... like it's an option for every woman .it just shows how little of the world you actually know.i mean I'm not shiting out money Brain.
@@kellymullen1364 "Predominately" - look up the definition. I wouldn't disagree that men can be that way. It's a matter of the PREVALENCE of it. I actually mentioned your very point in my comment, so I'm not sure what you're on about. Women have always worked. Its just a matter of what kind of work they're doing
@@kellymullen1364 It literally is an option lol I know morbidly obese women with sugar daddies. Just 'cause you arent taking an option doesnt mean it isnt an option. You can literally sell pictures of your feet on the internet and make money. The day most men can do that is the day I'll concede your point
The conclusion makes no sense. I'm sure she was using women speak. Also, I did women speak, chip pile etc. DOES NOT WORK! Level playing for most but they play follow the leader.