in the first 2 seasons the holodeck actually replicated some of the matter inside it . in the very first episode Data said "much of it is real, sir" when explaining it to Riker. and we also saw Wesley throwing snow out of the holodeck and walking out of it soaking wet and having to clean it up , indicating that the holodeck actually replicates the simple materials . one time Picard walked out with a lipstick from kissing a holograhic woman and it was wiped by Beverly later. Data also threw a rock from inside the holodeck at the holodeck wall and it hit the wall , probably because that specific rock was replicated and the holodeck wasn't yet 'tuned' enough to de-materialize it and replace it with a corresponding image on the wall fast enough (or Data threw it too quickly for the holodeck to anticipate it) . it's also been mentioned that because of all the problems in the holodecks they underwent certain upgrades when they were in a starbase. it's possible that because of all these incidents in which unwanted objects (and one time even people) got out of the holodeck they reprogrammed it to never allow anything to come out of the door , except food which would still be replicated otherwise it might cause injury if you ate there and then walked out. we saw a clue of that in season 7 when they were still holding drinks even after a program was shut off. as for clothing inside the holodeck , they don't have to dress real clothes , the holodeck CAN create holographic clothing to wear , we saw that when Tasha was showing her Karate program in season 1 and wore something that the holodeck created. and in Enterprise we saw Riker's clothing change by the holodeck . the reason some people prefer to wear real clothing I guess is because it's more comfortable or more authentic-feeling than if the holodeck is projecting it on you , which might feel imperfect
Lots of good points here. I think the issue is that too much of our information is stuff that we have to assume or extrapolate on our own. The way they talk about it is sometimes inconsistent, and only really makes sense if we project our own explanations on it. I suppose at this point if they stopped being able to take things out of the holodeck, that would cause even more inconsistency problems than it would fix. I don't think we would complain so much or ask so many questions about how it works if it didn't play such a prominent part in so many episodes. And I think it's clear that they hadn't actually thought everything out at the time that they were writing some of these episodes.
Yes - perhaps if you're in physical contact with an inanimate object created on the holodeck, it "materializes" when you leave the holodeck to prevent injury. Like if you're riding a bicycle and go through the holders portal
Okay, but then how does Data know leaving the holodeck won't cause the drawing to dematerialize anyway? How do they distinguish between holographic and replicated material?
You said what I was bursting to say... Only you said it better, with better examples, better understanding of the material, and a better understanding of grammar.... So yeah Awesome job saying it... And thanks!
Also, you might forget you're wearing holographic clothing, and walk out. You make it three steps out the door before you realize you're naked and bump into Riker, anxiously waiting for an available holodeck. Now you're in real trouble.
Good to know Dr. Pulaski was getting filled with crumpets the whole time she was in "captivity". :-) Lol TH-cam's closed captioning misread Moriarty's line as "But I will still fill you with *pumping*."
3:06 his level of anger is acceptable since you gotta book the holodeck time in advance and he chose to play sherlock holmes with data instead of load up a porno. So he's a little pent up.
The holodecks in later stories can create stuff for the user to wear- B'elanna gets a pregnant belly put on her in a WWII simulation(an easy way for them to account for Roxanne Dawson's late-stage pregnancy at that point). But later stories had figured out the lore better. This seems like an ideal character for Lower Decks to revisit if they go back to DS9- Quark gets hold of some odd holo tech in a trade(the cube program box from the Enterprise, after the crash). He wakes Moriarty in a holosuite. But this time he'll have Vic Fontaine to deal with if he causes trouble... and ideally get the EMH with his mobile emitter, which would be a way for him to exist outside but they only have the 1 & can't replicate it. Sadly it probably won't happen. A replica of Moriarty in a museum shows up in Picard, because why have a good idea on that show when they can just waste stuff?
in the mid 24th century human beings have a life expectancy of around 140-or-so years. aka. about double (well a little less than that, but still) what it is now on earth.
I know this is meant to be a bit of a joke, but it's also reflective of the rampant sexism and lack of more age-appropriate relationships we see depicted in media. The actress for Pulaski here is only 50, certainly middle-aged, but hardly an "old woman." (Admittedly, her attitude and haircut in TNG makes her feel a little more matronly and mature.) I know my child self when I first saw this episode thought of her as rather ancient, relatively, so much that I assumed Moriarty was just being playful and flattering with her, joking but not showing genuine romantic interest. And yet the actor for Moriarty was 43 at this time, so a relationship between the two wouldn't be outlandish. As a middle-aged guy myself now, this all feels quite different. The reason I think we have this impression is because of so many wide age-gap relationships where we expect male actors to be paired with much younger ones, even decades younger. Patrick Stewart is around the age of Diana Muldaur (Pulaski), and he was in his late 40s and early 50s while this series was on TV. But all of his romances were with much younger women: the most prominent probably being Vash (18 years younger), but Eline ("The Inner Light," 11 years younger) and Nella Daren (whom he did music duets with in "Lessons," 12 years younger) are representative too. Even Dr. Beverly is still 9 years Picard's junior. Picard was even bonded in "The Perfect Mate" to an actress 24 years younger than him, roughly half his age. So, in a universe like that, the idea that a middle-aged 40-something like Moriarty might go for a 50-year-old woman seems almost insane. A woman of the same age would feel "old," and thus a slightly older woman like Pulaski seems rather ancient in comparison. And yet... she's not an "old woman" in realistic terms. She's old....er than Moriarty, but hardly an outlandish love interest, unless we go for the sexist perception propagated by television that men should only go for much younger women.
I LOVE this episode. IIRC it was used as the lore behind the creation of The Doctor in Voyager. The Creation of Sentient Intelligence by accident is very appealing. It shows it's not just about creating a smart calculator on legs... there's something more to it.
Basically the ship took itself over... Unintentionally?!? Moriarty was the ship... Infact I'm pretty sure this means the ships AI has split personalities... And it does resurface...
@Schlomo Baconberg basically anything simple in structure and probably not very large gets physically made. Saves on computation power if you just make a physical object and let physics do its thing then to keep calculating how it reacts with every movement or interaction.
I recently heard that it was a good thing the Doyle estate liked the episode. Moriarty wasn't public domain when the episode was produced. The most recent show (movie?) about Holmes's sister has legal issues because some of the plot elements are from later books that weren't public domain at the time of the film's production.
@@kev3d The discussion was on The Lawful Masses channel. They mostly do copyright law discussion, but sometimes discuss other cases and judicial ethics. The STD waterbear claim is also a topic there.
One thing that bugged me was that Moriarty was able to see the arch BEFORE Geordi instructed the computer to create a foe who could outwit Data. So does that mean Moriarty already possessed consciousness and just got smarter because of Geordi? Then again, the lady he was with was also able to see the arch when Moriarty called for it. The problem is the series was especially inconsistent in the early seasons. Just as you pointed out the piece of paper that Data carried out of the Holodeck. They do mention in the show that the holodeck produces both holograms and physical matter using transporter technology (I won't get into the whole matter-energy problem here). So there should be no problem taking things off the holodeck just like they can take food out of a replicator. Yet in other episodes they demonstrate that objects and people both vanish when crossing the threshold into the real world. Perhaps certain objects are holographic while other "props" are material?
It would seem that an objects mass is a variable to what can leave the holo deck. Barkley seemed to think he could transport a chair from the holo deck.
I find it funny that nobody has mentioned the fact that the actress who plays Dr. Katherine Pulaski, Diana Muldaur, has also appeared in two Original Series episodes, "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" and "Return to Tomorrow." ... And was quite attractive in her youth ...
1:41 LOL, the age-old debate of feels vs precision in music. Believe it, there are musical genres totally dedicated to making music based on mathematics; search math rock for example. One certainly does not need to play with "feel" in order to make (good) music!
True, but I was thinking specifically in regard to Data. His approach to music, to me, seemed counter to his approach to pretty much everything else. He couldn't figure out how to whistle, but is adept at the violin... --Robert
Geordi: Captain the holo deck is trying to kill us again ……. Picard: dammit Geordi what did i tel you about creating rogue a.I.s Geordi: Umm not to…… Picard: your damn right
As an Englishman Daniel Davis’ English accent is up there with Joseph Wiseman, Renee Zellweger, Gillian Anderson or Toni Colette’s. Pretty flawless imho.
The holodeck is also a type of replicator and that's why they can get wet through snowballs out the holodeck and drink and eat foods and primitive item's they want to leave the holodeck like paper, simple tools and slowballs can leave but humans and animals can be replicated.
How did the piece of paper with the Enterprise drawing get out of the holodeck when years later Picard throws a book out of the holodeck and it disappears??
The paper leaving the holodeck could be explained as real objects are created there too. Like the crumpets Dr Pulaski ate. Replicators are used in the holodeck too. I did always wonder why they didn't just beam the Dr out. I didn't know Daniel Davis faked the accent. Quite a talented actor.
The crew have technological amnesia. "There's a problem in the holodeck!" "Well gee...how about we beam everyone out to safety?" "Huh? Beaming? What are you talking about?" "Captain, the transporters are down!" "Why don't we use some of the transporters that are on any number of the shuttle craft we keep onboard?" "What's a shuttle craft?" "There's a virus on the ship!" "Okay, let's isolate the decks and communicate only electronically. Strict quarantine until we have it figured out." "Wait, define 'quarantine'..."
Daniel Davis is fabulous in this. I actually thought he was English as his accent is really, really good.....and I'm English. Diane Mulder and Patrick Stewart are also great. I didn't like the ending, though; they just turn the holodeck programme off! Moriarty was a new life form, and was sentient and Starfleet is about "seeking out new life". But, hey, lets just turn him off and forget about him. The sequel to this one is great as well and I'm really looking forward to seeing Daniel Davis in ST: Picard. Great episode: A-
its actually kind of interesting but in the episode in the minds eye or something like that. data is faced with a real life mystery and ends up solving it.
This is a thought provoking episode, but rarely do i hear of the following: Why does Moriaty even insist on becoming part of "reality"? Being "born" on the holodeck, so to say, he should be much more inclinded to see it as his natural realm - and its advantages. To him "reality" should be the fake world, but in contrast to the holodeck, it has limits. So why become a part of it?
Isn't the HoloDeck pretty much a big replicator? I mean there's plenty of times that objects in the HoloDeck have temporary lifelines, but I'm assuming, it CAN create a solid object like a replicator. That's my 2 cents.
Geordi might look like he's writing to fast for what he's saying because he's not a federation standard speaker. We understand him because of the universal translator
Dr.Polansky is like that old uncle or grandfather that constantly says racist things matter of factly, not because he's racist, but because that was just the language of the time.
The reason that the piece of paper left the Holodeck in the episode is the same reason that Wesley was still wet and dripping when he stepped off the holodeck in Encounter At Farpoint -- magic.
in the first 2 seasons the holodeck actually replicated some of the matter inside it . in the very first episode Data said "much of it is real, sir" when explaining it to Riker. and we also saw Wesley throwing snow out of the holodeck and walking out of it soaking wet and having to clean it up , indicating that the holodeck actually replicates the simple materials .
one time Picard walked out with a lipstick from kissing a holograhic woman and it was wiped by Beverly later.
Data also threw a rock from inside the holodeck at the holodeck wall and it hit the wall , probably because that specific rock was replicated and the holodeck wasn't yet 'tuned' enough to de-materialize it and replace it with a corresponding image on the wall fast enough (or Data threw it too quickly for the holodeck to anticipate it) .
it's also been mentioned that because of all the problems in the holodecks they underwent certain upgrades when they were in a starbase.
it's possible that because of all these incidents in which unwanted objects (and one time even people) got out of the holodeck they reprogrammed it to never allow anything to come out of the door , except food which would still be replicated otherwise it might cause injury if you ate there and then walked out.
we saw a clue of that in season 7 when they were still holding drinks even after a program was shut off.
as for clothing inside the holodeck , they don't have to dress real clothes , the holodeck CAN create holographic clothing to wear , we saw that when Tasha was showing her Karate program in season 1 and wore something that the holodeck created. and in Enterprise we saw Riker's clothing change by the holodeck .
the reason some people prefer to wear real clothing I guess is because it's more comfortable or more authentic-feeling than if the holodeck is projecting it on you , which might feel imperfect
Lots of good points here. I think the issue is that too much of our information is stuff that we have to assume or extrapolate on our own. The way they talk about it is sometimes inconsistent, and only really makes sense if we project our own explanations on it. I suppose at this point if they stopped being able to take things out of the holodeck, that would cause even more inconsistency problems than it would fix.
I don't think we would complain so much or ask so many questions about how it works if it didn't play such a prominent part in so many episodes. And I think it's clear that they hadn't actually thought everything out at the time that they were writing some of these episodes.
Yes - perhaps if you're in physical contact with an inanimate object created on the holodeck, it "materializes" when you leave the holodeck to prevent injury. Like if you're riding a bicycle and go through the holders portal
Okay, but then how does Data know leaving the holodeck won't cause the drawing to dematerialize anyway? How do they distinguish between holographic and replicated material?
You said what I was bursting to say... Only you said it better, with better examples, better understanding of the material, and a better understanding of grammar....
So yeah Awesome job saying it... And thanks!
Also, you might forget you're wearing holographic clothing, and walk out. You make it three steps out the door before you realize you're naked and bump into Riker, anxiously waiting for an available holodeck. Now you're in real trouble.
Good to know Dr. Pulaski was getting filled with crumpets the whole time she was in "captivity". :-)
Lol TH-cam's closed captioning misread Moriarty's line as "But I will still fill you with *pumping*."
Even the captioning picks up the subtext.
OH
MY
And yet it still removed the s-word from earlier LOL
3:06 his level of anger is acceptable since you gotta book the holodeck time in advance and he chose to play sherlock holmes with data instead of load up a porno. So he's a little pent up.
I wonder how that even works for Geordi since he can only see in Predator heat vision anyway?
The holodecks in later stories can create stuff for the user to wear- B'elanna gets a pregnant belly put on her in a WWII simulation(an easy way for them to account for Roxanne Dawson's late-stage pregnancy at that point). But later stories had figured out the lore better.
This seems like an ideal character for Lower Decks to revisit if they go back to DS9- Quark gets hold of some odd holo tech in a trade(the cube program box from the Enterprise, after the crash). He wakes Moriarty in a holosuite. But this time he'll have Vic Fontaine to deal with if he causes trouble... and ideally get the EMH with his mobile emitter, which would be a way for him to exist outside but they only have the 1 & can't replicate it. Sadly it probably won't happen. A replica of Moriarty in a museum shows up in Picard, because why have a good idea on that show when they can just waste stuff?
8:22 I never noticed Worf going into combat mode when Picard smacks his hat with his cane. 🤣
Omg that was great 😅😅
This was my favorite episode when I was a kid.
"..the next we see each other, I could be an old woman."
- Old woman
In _Star Trek_ terms, she isn't old.
in the mid 24th century human beings have a life expectancy of around 140-or-so years. aka. about double (well a little less than that, but still) what it is now on earth.
I know this is meant to be a bit of a joke, but it's also reflective of the rampant sexism and lack of more age-appropriate relationships we see depicted in media. The actress for Pulaski here is only 50, certainly middle-aged, but hardly an "old woman." (Admittedly, her attitude and haircut in TNG makes her feel a little more matronly and mature.) I know my child self when I first saw this episode thought of her as rather ancient, relatively, so much that I assumed Moriarty was just being playful and flattering with her, joking but not showing genuine romantic interest. And yet the actor for Moriarty was 43 at this time, so a relationship between the two wouldn't be outlandish.
As a middle-aged guy myself now, this all feels quite different. The reason I think we have this impression is because of so many wide age-gap relationships where we expect male actors to be paired with much younger ones, even decades younger. Patrick Stewart is around the age of Diana Muldaur (Pulaski), and he was in his late 40s and early 50s while this series was on TV. But all of his romances were with much younger women: the most prominent probably being Vash (18 years younger), but Eline ("The Inner Light," 11 years younger) and Nella Daren (whom he did music duets with in "Lessons," 12 years younger) are representative too. Even Dr. Beverly is still 9 years Picard's junior. Picard was even bonded in "The Perfect Mate" to an actress 24 years younger than him, roughly half his age.
So, in a universe like that, the idea that a middle-aged 40-something like Moriarty might go for a 50-year-old woman seems almost insane. A woman of the same age would feel "old," and thus a slightly older woman like Pulaski seems rather ancient in comparison.
And yet... she's not an "old woman" in realistic terms. She's old....er than Moriarty, but hardly an outlandish love interest, unless we go for the sexist perception propagated by television that men should only go for much younger women.
As soon as Geordi made his request to the computer, I was like "Oh no". We don't need anything that can confound and defeat Data. Face palm
I LOVE this episode.
IIRC it was used as the lore behind the creation of The Doctor in Voyager. The Creation of Sentient Intelligence by accident is very appealing. It shows it's not just about creating a smart calculator on legs... there's something more to it.
Basically the ship took itself over... Unintentionally?!?
Moriarty was the ship... Infact I'm pretty sure this means the ships AI has split personalities... And it does resurface...
It's been explained many times already, the holodeck makes heavy use of replicators, not just holograms.
@Schlomo Baconberg basically anything simple in structure and probably not very large gets physically made. Saves on computation power if you just make a physical object and let physics do its thing then to keep calculating how it reacts with every movement or interaction.
Was Geordi even holding a pen when he was 'writing'?
I wish that they had gotten Moriarity a hologram emitter sometime in one of the canon television shows.
I recently heard that it was a good thing the Doyle estate liked the episode. Moriarty wasn't public domain when the episode was produced.
The most recent show (movie?) about Holmes's sister has legal issues because some of the plot elements are from later books that weren't public domain at the time of the film's production.
Really? Imagine having a legal battle over that garbage movie (if we are talking about the same thing).
@@kev3d The discussion was on The Lawful Masses channel. They mostly do copyright law discussion, but sometimes discuss other cases and judicial ethics. The STD waterbear claim is also a topic there.
One thing that bugged me was that Moriarty was able to see the arch BEFORE Geordi instructed the computer to create a foe who could outwit Data. So does that mean Moriarty already possessed consciousness and just got smarter because of Geordi?
Then again, the lady he was with was also able to see the arch when Moriarty called for it.
The problem is the series was especially inconsistent in the early seasons. Just as you pointed out the piece of paper that Data carried out of the Holodeck. They do mention in the show that the holodeck produces both holograms and physical matter using transporter technology (I won't get into the whole matter-energy problem here). So there should be no problem taking things off the holodeck just like they can take food out of a replicator. Yet in other episodes they demonstrate that objects and people both vanish when crossing the threshold into the real world. Perhaps certain objects are holographic while other "props" are material?
It would seem that an objects mass is a variable to what can leave the holo deck.
Barkley seemed to think he could transport a chair from the holo deck.
I find it funny that nobody has mentioned the fact that the actress who plays Dr. Katherine Pulaski, Diana Muldaur, has also appeared in two Original Series episodes, "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" and "Return to Tomorrow." ... And was quite attractive in her youth ...
If Geordi was responsible for overriding the program on the holodeck, couldn’t Geordi have cancelled it?? That was never attempted!
1:41 LOL, the age-old debate of feels vs precision in music. Believe it, there are musical genres totally dedicated to making music based on mathematics; search math rock for example. One certainly does not need to play with "feel" in order to make (good) music!
True, but I was thinking specifically in regard to Data. His approach to music, to me, seemed counter to his approach to pretty much everything else. He couldn't figure out how to whistle, but is adept at the violin... --Robert
@@reverseangle the 12 tone technique is another composing system based on math
Geordi's bowler hat is pimpin! Just missing a fake British accent.
Edit: Data and Geordi are both so fresh, so clean.
The holodeck and transporter and replocator all work in a similar way
so Wesley was right in the other episode when he said they could potentially disappear inside the holodeck.
Geordi: Captain the holo deck is trying to kill us again …….
Picard: dammit Geordi what did i tel you about creating rogue a.I.s
Geordi: Umm not to……
Picard: your damn right
Rogue, not "rouge".
When Geordie tells the computer to freeze the holodeck program, why does the fire keep flickering?
Geordi is 100% a Nerd! Lmfao!
WhoooooEee...
Sometimes a crumpet is just a crumpet.
Fair enough.
Crumpet is used in British English slang to denote sexual intercourse.
wordhistories.net/2019/05/17/crumpet-sexual-meanings/
You learn something new every day. Well, maybe not every day. Sometimes, at least.
@@reverseangle if you're ever in Ireland ask for a lift, not a ride.
Who cares as long as it made her toes curl.
As an Englishman Daniel Davis’ English accent is up there with Joseph Wiseman, Renee Zellweger, Gillian Anderson or Toni Colette’s. Pretty flawless imho.
I'm English as well and I assumed he was a Brit working in the US like Patrick Stewart.
I never understood how that guy could possibly make a device on the holodeck that could effect the rest of the ship.
This episode and its follow-up would be the reason Futurama writers included Professor Moriarty when the Nimbus' Holo-shed malfunctions.
Pulaski just comes off as ignorant. If she was actually a bigot she wouldn't befriend Data in an effort to understand him.
Dr Pulaski is my favourite and I love this episode!!
The holodeck is also a type of replicator and that's why they can get wet through snowballs out the holodeck and drink and eat foods and primitive item's they want to leave the holodeck like paper, simple tools and slowballs can leave but humans and animals can be replicated.
How did the piece of paper with the Enterprise drawing get out of the holodeck when years later Picard throws a book out of the holodeck and it disappears??
The paper leaving the holodeck could be explained as real objects are created there too. Like the crumpets Dr Pulaski ate. Replicators are used in the holodeck too. I did always wonder why they didn't just beam the Dr out. I didn't know Daniel Davis faked the accent. Quite a talented actor.
The crew have technological amnesia.
"There's a problem in the holodeck!" "Well gee...how about we beam everyone out to safety?" "Huh? Beaming? What are you talking about?"
"Captain, the transporters are down!" "Why don't we use some of the transporters that are on any number of the shuttle craft we keep onboard?" "What's a shuttle craft?"
"There's a virus on the ship!" "Okay, let's isolate the decks and communicate only electronically. Strict quarantine until we have it figured out." "Wait, define 'quarantine'..."
@@kev3d this made me laugh. You figured a few more things I missed. Good examples. The crew was forgetful.
Daniel Davis is fabulous in this. I actually thought he was English as his accent is really, really good.....and I'm English. Diane Mulder and Patrick Stewart are also great.
I didn't like the ending, though; they just turn the holodeck programme off! Moriarty was a new life form, and was sentient and Starfleet is about "seeking out new life". But, hey, lets just turn him off and forget about him. The sequel to this one is great as well and I'm really looking forward to seeing Daniel Davis in ST: Picard.
Great episode: A-
3:20 I find this is one of several times that geordi significantly overreacts to things and acts like a child.
The replicator created their clothes for them
its actually kind of interesting but in the episode in the minds eye or something like that. data is faced with a real life mystery and ends up solving it.
This is a thought provoking episode, but rarely do i hear of the following: Why does Moriaty even insist on becoming part of "reality"? Being "born" on the holodeck, so to say, he should be much more inclinded to see it as his natural realm - and its advantages. To him "reality" should be the fake world, but in contrast to the holodeck, it has limits. So why become a part of it?
Isn't the HoloDeck pretty much a big replicator?
I mean there's plenty of times that objects in the HoloDeck have temporary lifelines, but I'm assuming, it CAN create a solid object like a replicator.
That's my 2 cents.
Because in the episode many years later where Picard confronts Moriarty, Picard throws a book outside the holodeck and it disappears.
They can't explain how the transporters or holodeck works because both are totally impossible.
You just have to accept such things in sci-fi.
Geordi might look like he's writing to fast for what he's saying because he's not a federation standard speaker. We understand him because of the universal translator
When javascript in a tab uses 100% of the CPU today, you get the option to just close the tab. The Enterprise can't do that, it seems.
DJ' s proof of not learning. Why wasn't Moriarty married to the boss?
Dr.Polansky is like that old uncle or grandfather that constantly says racist things matter of factly, not because he's racist, but because that was just the language of the time.
B episode. Worth watching a second time.
The way you guys just say "so stoopid," when you can't think of a proper criticism is really really...stupid.
Niles? 😂 #thenanny
Merde
The reason that the piece of paper left the Holodeck in the episode is the same reason that Wesley was still wet and dripping when he stepped off the holodeck in Encounter At Farpoint -- magic.