J.P. Moreland and the Free-Thinking Argument
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Tim Stratton's Free-Thinking Argument has raised the ire of many atheists, Calvinists, and even a few libertarians. Many have suggested that the Free-Thinking Argument is a failure and ought to be dismissed. However, one of the world's most prestigious philosophers disagrees with these naysayers.
Who is J.P. Moreland? He is Distinguished Professor of philosophy at a prominent university. He has authored, edited, or contributed papers to almost 100 books and also published over ninety articles in journals such as Philosophy and Phenomenological Research, American Philosophical Quarterly, Australasian Journal of Philosophy, MetaPhilosophy, Philosophia Christi, Religious Studies, and Faith and Philosophy. He is literally one of the most influential philosophers in the world today.
In this video, this philosopher explains exactly why the Free-Thinking Argument is a success, why its detractors fail, and why he and Stratton have joined forces to strengthen and advance the Free-Thinking Argument in a soon-to-be published academic journal.
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Great job, Tim! I can't wait to read the article!
I prefer calling it divine exhaustive absolute determinism, but that's only because the acronym ends up being DEAD.
Having been a Calvanist the last two decades, and then suffering under the resulting deterministic view point, made me really start to think about all of this. Over the last few years, having read and meditated on Colossians 1:15-17, Hebrews 1:3, and John 1:1-5, resulting in being overwhelmed by the massiveness and utterly other worldliness of God in terms of our understanding of time/space and how we fit into that, opened my eyes. Then reading Beyond Death by JP Moreland, Chosen but Free by Norman Geisler and Beyond the Cosmos by Dr. Hugh Ross. All not only utterly humbled me in relation to my understand of God, and his Providence and Power, but made me rethink the Calvanist/Deterministic view of Free Will. Especially in light of the fact that God's Word teaches both Free Will (choice) and God's all knowing providence. At the end, Calvinism has shown to me, a limited view of God, that comes to a logical conclusion (it is logical, but in a limited mindset). Like the Trinity, God can be both three and one. And we can choose God and he can choose us. Both can be true. God's perspective is not limited to the 4 space/time dimensions. Our logical thinking is. God is speaking to us through His Word as a transcendent, eternal, multi-dimensional being beyond our comprehension. We need to take scripture in its totality, and not subject, negate or minimize the parts that go against a certain doctrine we've been taught (Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, etc) and rest assured in what God has told us. We must choose. Everyone must choose. We are free to choose.
This and the second vid with JP are two of the best videos. These are great discussions. Can"t wait for more discussions with JP. :D
Make sure you don't miss the video that comes out tonight!
Praise the Lord for giving us freely a will to choose right from wrong, what pleases one and how to build up constructively, praise God for giving us a solution to escape evil! I therefore bind to hell every lie one not being free choosing right from wrong, what pleases one and how to build up constructively in my life, the lives of my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquitances, opponents and the body of Christ while binding one free to choose right from wrong, what pleases one and how to build constructively, binding to hell every unequal yoke and common share with anyone thinking one not being free choosing right from wrong, not being free to choose what one pleases and not being free choosing how to constructively build, in accordance with this word and deuteronomy 30:19, joshua 24:15, 1 peter 3:3-4, 1 thessalonians 5:11, 2 corinthians 6:14-18 in the name and blood of Jesus Christ, amen and hallelujah ❤!
It is nice to see Mr. Moreland. I met him a couple of times along with Dr. Reynolds and Dr. Craig (I think I called him J.P. by accident) (they would not remember me except possibly Mr. Reynolds-we talked about the films of Tarkovsky when he was the featured guest for a group of youth, meeting at Biola during the summer. I have gone back and forth over the years between a soft Calvinism and a sort-of Wesleyen viewpoint. I am now looking into Molinism, middle knowledge, predestination, and free will. I almost did not stop on your page as I connected Free-Thinking with Atheism. Thanks Tim for your work.
I’m taking “free thinking” back from atheists (like Sam Harris) who don’t have logical rights to the term. 😉
Great interview. J P Moreland has had a large influence on me. I am not familiar with you but I am interested in your free thinking argument. Argument and reason are pointless if hard determinism is true. You are truly hitting the most important issue... this affects all the philosophical issues that are built upon metaphysical presupposition of thinking being possible. Thank you.
Thank you for this substantial discussion on what we intuitively know already from our experience and implied throughout scripture.
Dr. Stratton's and Dr. Moreland's passion for Truth is contagious. Thank you both!
If you are determined by God to see that the wall you are looking at is blue, or if you freely see that the wall you are looking at is blue, does either case change the fact that the wall being looked at is blue?
In either case a false belief can also obtain.
If you are determined by God to see water on the road which in fact is a mirage, or if you freely see water on the road which in fact is a mirage, does either case change the fact that the water on the road is a mirage?
As you think about that keep these scriptures in mind...
19 Then Micaiah continued, “Listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the armies of heaven around him, on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who can entice Ahab to go into battle against Ramoth-gilead so he can be killed?’
“There were many suggestions, 21 and finally a spirit approached the Lord and said, ‘I can do it!’
22 “‘How will you do this?’ the Lord asked.
“And the spirit replied, ‘I will go out and inspire all of Ahab’s prophets to speak lies.’
“‘You will succeed,’ said the Lord. ‘Go ahead and do it.’
23 “So you see, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all your prophets. For the Lord has pronounced your doom.”
- 1 Kings 22:19-23 New Living Translation
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
- Ezekiel 14:9 King James Version
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 King James Version
When you’ve got JP, who else do you need?!
This argument would seem to be in contradiction to Molinism.
Hardly. This argument is used to support Molinism. That’s why both JP and Tim are Molinists.
@@FreethinkingMinistries Dr. Morgan just said that we needed to have the ability to do otherwise in this possible world, that some other possible world wasn't sufficient. That would seem to disagree with the fact that this possible world is actualized with all of its choices and that no other choices are possible in this world.
@@michaelfaber6904 first, Molinists have already done the heavy lifting demonstrating that God’s knowledge does not stand in causal relation nor does it necessitate anything.
Second, suppose we grant your assertion for the sake of argument. Watch “Part 2” of this discussion. JP and I discuss the fact that dual ability is not necessary for libertarian freedom (we discuss this in our paper in more depth). So, if God knows how a non-determined agent would freely choose prior to creation, then God has middle knowledge (even *if* the human could not do otherwise). Thus, even if we granted your claim, Molinism is left unscathed.
@@FreethinkingMinistries One of the major theses of your philosophy is the ability to to otherwise. That was the point Dr. Morgan was making.
@@michaelfaber6904 watch the video again (and the “Part 2” that we just released). Moreland and I do believe - and argue - that we possess a categorical ability to do otherwise. However. As we discuss in these videos and explain in our paper, libertarian freedom does not necessarily entail the ability to do otherwise. We show how the FTA (and Molinism) can be defended without referencing dual ability.
I can't wait for the article, Tim! I'm so happy for seeing you and Moreland together.
Knew it! I just had a feeling it would be him. J.P. has also had a huge impact on me in learning how to love God with all my mind. I'm so glad to see two of my favorite philosphers/theologians teaming up!
I guessed it was JP as well. There is no other Philosopher I'd rather team up with, love that man. Looking forward to more from you guys.
At minute 16:35 J.P states
-quote
The scientist in fact hit the guy *THROUGH* Joe
Yes - and John Calvin confirms this
John Calvin
-quote
He [Calvin's god] does this by first working in their hearts the very WILL which precedes the *ACTS THEY ARE TO PERFORM* (Secret providence pg243)
So we can see - in Calvinism humans are made to *PERFORM* acts not on behalf of themselves - but on behalf of Calvin's god.
Yes, also known as being born again
@@will95515 DW: Being infallibly decreed to perform a sin is called being born again???
Will you be willing to discuss JP's book on miracles? He claims not crapping his pants (after some serious prayer partners jumped in to the rescue) before an important talk was evidence of God's miracles still being evidenced today. He also claims an illegal kick-back that got him a cheap swimming pool was a miracle and "proof" of God's love and goodness, etc. Given these kinds of arguments, I think anyone not dismissing JP as a lunatic has some serious explaining to do....will you come to his defense or ignore me?
Make sure to watch Part 2 of JP Moreland & the Free-Thinking Argument.
th-cam.com/video/iUpXEbbpAUg/w-d-xo.html
I need some help debating 2 atheist/agnostic friends on Stereo
Gee Mr Moreland has a pretty good illustration with that mad scientist analogy. Maybe Tim could consider using it once or twice or a few dozen times...
Awesome team up!
Nice.