When 3 Ultras Kill 69 Marines, Are Ultras Imba Or Do Marines Suck? | Is It Imba Or Do I Suck?
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• Is it imba or Do I Suck?
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Ultras don't counter much, but they certainly counter massed marines.
tell that to artosis
@@1MpUrO you mean mr.Plato
Actually back in the day in one patch ultras were indeed crazy op.
right? when i saw the thumbnail i was like "duh, of course they would look op"
@@1MpUrO hahahaha nice one
I’m also a big fan of Sun Tzu’s “Art of the Deal,” especially the part where he explained that the best way to win a war is to build the Great Wall and make the Manchurians pay for it
Hitting Shanghai Plato, Trump, and everyone who doesn't know about Sun Tzu in one moment like that? Harstem should write the Art of Mockery XD
Didn’t the Chinese recently say something like “ we will bash our enemy’s skulls against our wall of steel “ r.I.p Taiwan , America and Australia
@@dylansimmonds2923 not Chinese, it was Emperor Xi's own words
I heard that the author was hugely in debt and in financial crisis which was actually a motivation tactic too in the great bankruptcy wars.
Yes, the Wall was an aweful movie
Here is the victim himself. : ) I am very happy to be on the show, and I do admit that I sucked. However, I also want to point out another important aspect that made me lose, which is my upgrades. During the 80 marine push, my 33 was not finished and my opponent had already finished it. This is probably one big reason why I died so hard to it.
Massive respect to you, fantastic macro play. Hope you improve your micro! Thanks for submitting the replay!
Nah nah, biggest thing is 0 anything besides marines my dude. Like where were some of the tanks? I also barrel over mass marine with zerg. I see only marine I just sit back and enjoy
Yeah, 2/2 marines do whooping 1 damage to 3/3 ultras with their Chitinous upgrade.
Big respect to the macro! If mine was half that good I’d be happy haha
I feel that some liberators could change a lot here. But hey I'm just diamond xD
Sun Tzu - Art of the deal, legendary comment Harstem
Alternate complaint description:
"Is it Imba that marines can't win against everything or do I suck?"
Exactly
right, he had no marauders and his opponant had a massive bank of minerals somehow..... should have made proxy hatches and made more troops
No its imba. Why doesn't terran have chronos and queens, and marines with like 50 armor. I have to make tanks? But my macro cycle Is the hardest I have to remember to drop mules every 2 minutes. And I have free scans. It's so unfair. Give me wins now. xD
@@mattstoss1423 selfish terran players saying their macro cycle is difficult when the best strat is just spam queue scvs smh
@@zekrua4006 don't forget mass rice and mules xD ez a move
I don't need to send an IMBA complain to Harstem, because I already know I suck
It's not about the result, it's about the journey. Everyone of them knew they sucked (maybe except that guy, that submitted his win, making it sound like his opponent is actually submitting a form)
It's good to have confirmation though.
Its the warlord Xiang Yu. He destroy the bridge of his army and told them. Only win, no go home. And they won a lost fight.
This was a classic sweaty diamond Terran trying to play like Clem and anti-micro-ing himself to death. Not too bad though, could definitely see future improvements if he keeps practicing!
For example in the last fight he double stimmed his units to death for no reason. A lot of Terrans in these replays are trying too hard and hurting themselves with negative micro.
> could definitely see future improvements if he keeps practicing!
Keep practicing and victory is assured.
Imho the Clem build is difficult AF but he's doing far better job than me with it. Honestly, what can you do as Terran. To me this is more satisfying than Tosses cheesing their way up.
He always burrowed mines late, he had no mines defensively at his choke points, but he was capable of playing split army (kudos). I don't blame him for feeling bad about it. His only true mistake was loading medivacs with the unit he needed the most and getting half of his army killed with his own mines because of the late burrow. However the Zerg sucked the entire game and then built ultras and won. See the skill gap?
@@geuros the Zerg was also mining from 4 bases with very little pressure applied from the Terran, the Zerg also knew when he needed to attack and when to stop unlike the Terran, both played bad but the Zerg took all the opportunities he had to make a lot of damage, also, making only marines was a terrible idea against a unit that deals aoe damage
"The first and greatest victory is to conquer yourself; to be conquered by yourself is of all things most shameful and vile"
-Plato, after seeing 69 marines getting pooped on by 3 ultras
that marine vs ultra fight could have gone a lot better, if he had even upgrades. The ultras armor capped the rines at 2/2 vs 3/3, meaning the marines deal a whooping 1 dmg each shot. Lol. If he had +1 on the rines, he woulda been dealing DOUBLE damage. Still suck, but would have made a world of difference.
I like how Harstem in the end feels like "this guy ain't bad at all, just needs to improve a bit here and there" and then remembers, he needs to get that "Suck" stamp out. Bit of a rough switch
You can play well, and still suck hard. He wqs encouraging the dude to improve. But alot of us me included. If you say you're doing well. We refuse to improve because we're fine. But if you check us on top of that. Hey good job but you suck... we improve
Has he ever ended any of these videos with a "yes it's imba" verdict? Please direct me to it/them if so, thanks!
@@stillwatersrundeep001 there's one or 2 marked first imba stamp. I do believe there was 1 time
Yeah, the strangle with microphone was an overreach.
@@MusicGodAndMyLaptop Oh common, its part of the show. You can't half ass roast someone, its always an all-in
Plato contemplates the shadows on the cave and knows there is a higher reality outside
but forgets he's inside the ultralisk cavern, there's no reality outside
Harstem brings up Art of the Deal at least once a video but this one really caught me off guard lmao
Lol he does like to bring it up xD
Can't tell if Kevin is ironic or not, but "The Art of the Deal" made me crack.
Yeah but have you read Trump's "the art of war" yet?
It's sort of a sequel to Sun Tzu's book where he explains the tactical advantages of walls
@@runtergerutscht4401 i thought it was a collection of senile tweets aimed at north korea
@@MikeGuarino69 it's both. He's employing the tactics of misinformation laid out in Sun Tzu's work, so only hardcore fans get the real message
@James May you sure at 5:52 he said Deal and not Duel? Even after a few rewinds i couldn't really make out WHAT word he used, and i figured it was just a double-translation... ( Even if the dutch title is still closer to war than duel. 🤷)
First time hearing someone saying ultras are OP.
This is the first time I've ever seen them win a non-bronze league game. Even pro players use them sparingly just to tank damage or raid bases lategame. This looked like a zerg campaign mission.
As an ultralisk lover, I condemn myself to many losses because I refuse to not build ultras. The only time I win with them are when a Terran player has built too many marines.
As a famous player once said, "If I feel like throwing the game I go ultras"
Or something similar.
Ultras not bad at all if you babysit them. In P1 I use often. Plato lost cause he was slow with upgrates, slow burrowing mines, slow building marauders and bad micro overall. Zerg macro was awful and it would easy win for Plato.
Oh this reminds me of 2016-2017 ultras with 8 armor. Try and find SC2 CanCan video abouth this :D
Marine was supposed to suck against ultras because of it high armor, look it up in liquipidea. Oh my god terran has ghost in barrack man, just snipe the damn biological zerg units, and emp all comeback potential of zerg spellcaster.
Just marine aint gonna cut it, even clem retreat his marine to fight another day in those fast flying shield battery.
_"fast flying shield battery"_
is the greatest thing I've heard Medivacs get called! :D
"i outplayed my opponent in any possible aspect" is a subtle mistake, or a hint that he didn't outplay him at all
he did outplay his though... Just that people for some reason think that good (insanely good for this level) macro compensates for complete inability to micro a jack.
Most of the time he stimmed his units to death or negative microed a fight or both at the same time + never building right units since minute 8.
@@user-mt2jm7vy6i He outplayed the opponent overall, but not in every aspect. Otherwise he would have scouted the transition to ultralisks in advance and prepared for it. You can't always count on marines to counter absolutely everything.
12:30 funfact: plato was somehow a bodybuilder, plato was his wrestling nickname (we dont know his true name) and aristotles also wrote about plato winning arguments by just flexing his muscles
“Lack of activity destroys the good condition of every human being, while movement and methodical physical exercise save it and preserve it.”
This makes sense, as Plati in Greek actually means back (the body part) more specifically upper back. Plato was probably jacked.
I want to see jacked plato
Lost it at Sun Tzu's Art of the Deal
>Every BGM series: Don't worry about micro. You just win by being 50 supply ahead.
>Metal Leagues: Hold my vespene.
Vespene, we need gas too? That's only for masters players yo
the thing is, banking 3k gas is actually a macro problem. He could have had mass thors or 25 tanks which would've done a lot better.
Those ultras are mowing marines like, to quote a certain german philosopher, hot cheese through butter.
BGMWSS: Unlock all map achievements!
King of the Castle: Hold both watch towers the entire duration while you’re building your natural.
The Great Magellan: Must clear all “fog of war” (see every corner of the map) before taking a third.
Canary in a Coal Mine: must destroy all rocks on map before taking a fourth!
The Nosy Neighbor: Must harvest an entire mineral patch from long distance before taking your fifth.
I thought you need to comment BGMWSS in BGMWSS video comment section to be accepted...well harstem would read it but not it like he gonna have a find fun time searching where he read It before if he forgot. Nice idea tho
@@nahruz.w3044
This is one of the least comprehensible comments…thanks I think?
@@JFox4587 he's saying you should post it in a BGMWSS video if you want Harst to see it. Also like this idea though
watching the Marines getting crushed was soo good.
Feels like playing unit tester, and it resulted just as expected
That was like Starship Troopers if Rico stayed home
Kevin tried so hard to like this guy's play... genuine disappointment that he had to rip him to shreds at the end 😢
Remember guys, 23:59 is not Friday yet. Still on schedule!
That's the spirit!
Fun fact, Plato was a philosopher but he was and athlete too. The ancient Greek Plato translates as (Πλάτων, "broad and flat") which would have been just a nickname meaning: "broad-shouldered" because of his athletic build, "broad-fronted", or "ample in style". It is the teacher of gymnastics of the philosopher who would have nicknamed him thus. According to him, the philosopher would have taken part in pancrace (a kind of very violent wrestling) during the games. His real name was Aristocles, "son of Ariston". So you could be a philosopher and an athlete !
That is pretty awesome, thank you for sharing.
Challenge idea for beating grandmasters with stupid stuff: make name "MKUltra" and use mainly neural parasites and ultralisks to win the game.
Against any flying units:
"I use the air to destroy the air"
LOL! Nobody knows what MKultra means.
*Sun Tzu, Art of the Deal*
God I love Harstem
YES! Just what I needed right now! Love you Harstem for your timing! Thanks for uploading wonderful videos about StarCraft II just when needed!
13:37 --> But the terran is behind 2 upgrades in the fight. Which is kind of huge.
"Single e-bay in the wall, I don't actually mind that. I'm not sure why I mentioned that at this part of the big chain of things that I didn't like. Maybe to make it sound like there was more? But really, that was all there is."
I liked your video (The first one I've seen) mostly because of what this sentence means.
You self-reflected on why you might have over-expounded on something in the exact moment that you did it? With no shyness towards honesty. This is an incredibly strong character trait that I don't have at all. I applaud whole heartedly.
(The edits including orders and unit trades is also august)
I feel the terran. It's the same way that I always die as zerg.
Macroing and defending like a mad man, but as soon as the late T3 units of my opponent fly in (usually carriers or battle cruiser, I just die as I am not able to defend/counter these flying abominations.
After a 5 year long hiatus I was out into masters 3 and play no versus everything from platinum and higher.
If you need a Rank that is completely off for rank roulette, pm me :D
Corrupters. Focus fire down the carriers / bcs. High armour units also don’t get too badly affected by their attacks, but they are still relatively strong units, so don’t expect your ultralisk horde to waltz past and kill his bases. Throwing some vipers in also helps with focus firing, abducting a carrier or bc and right clicking will kill it before it kills your twelve corrupters.
I feel this dude too, I get excited in so many games that I'm owning the zerg hard with the high dps marines, but I always forget to scan the zergs tech and lose to ultras. Smoge
I tend not to listen to the people who say curropter. Vs carrier. They all seem to not remember that most toss will build voids to counter. And zeal for the ground to stop the hydras. The best Comp is queen, BL curropter, invester 2 vipers. On top of spores and keep moving the spores. It's a pain requires high GM micro. But nothing else really gets there. I've tried it all. So kill the toss before they're maxed. Or have fun spamming and still losing because we aren't serral
Think it's Harstem's first satisfying replay since the start of IODIS )Except maybe Lowko's 2nd one) He definitely wouldn't have been so happy to watch this replay if it would have been Rank Roulette though hahah. Props to Plato for the for the macro.
It's like a zerg player, that only produces ling bane and does not understand why he looses to mass siege tank...
More like massing lings and losing to hellbat, but I get what you're saying here.
Well lings actually counter tanks
Yes the hellbat example is way better. 😅
You gotta love that Plato info given up in the corner xd.
18:30 window mine wrecked chassis floating to the surface
Already from the balance form, before watching the game: the guy made two units, mines and marines and things went well. Then the enemy made the hard counter to these two units, which is a late-game tech, very expensive and extremely situational. And as a hard counter, it did what it's designed to do.
It's StarCraft 2, not rocket science.
Marauder Jeff thinking there's an Ultralisk hiding inside his supply depot 22:11
Panicked marauder with an unfortunate lack of trigger discipline
Yay! More CN replays! Just love the exaggerated descriptions, “In this replay, I outplayed my opponent in any possible aspect, no matter apm or macro.”
But you forgot that you can counter marines.
Instead he just got direct countered. That 80+ marines push was a complete waste.
I don`t play the game, but watch Harstem and lowko regularly. I never saw ultralisks crushing a bioforce without huge mistakes on the bioforce side. I mean, yeah, technically they got a huge advantage over marines, but splitting and support units always made them look like clunky units only useful for a quick baserush or on chokepoints. Again, I never played the game (except the story) but I know ultralisks are fucking expensive, time consuming to build and not really a unit you could build easily. There has to be a lot of tech invested and the vulnerability in a short game (as this is a 25 mins video with intro ant outro) seems to be like the opponent did really bad.
But now I wanna watch the match and hopefully the day has come to call something imba.
11:28 that base flies all the way to the left for the fourth
This shit right here is why I go mass BC every game. It's just so much easier, no one knows how to make a viper or corruptor, no control required. Just imagine if this man switched to BCs after losing his first army.
He triple stimmed. Once when he saw the army then got healed by the medivacs. Then twice when he started kiting away.
Sun Tzu's Art of the Deal hahahaha. I love you Harstem.
Hungry Hungry Ultralisks! Those have got to be the happiest big boiz I've ever seen in my life
i love your content harstem and hamster, you guys are awesome
5:43 "he wrote a very famous book once. Art of the Deal." Im on the floor. I hope i'm not the only one who caught that
Feeling like the ending was a bit too harsh. Guy wasn't that bad it seems
Well, but he kinda was if you watch again, Harstem is just playing nice or something. He keeps sacrificing marines to ling-bane, allows his opponent to zerg, has unrallied units collecting on his production structures, and he picks up half his marauders in the last fight.
Hastem is saying nice stuff throughout the game but if you actually look at what's going on - he is being cost inefficient playing bio widowmine against ling bane - and that's with him having a considerable supply advantage. The big fight where he got crushed, he moved out before his 3/3 was done against zerg with 3/3 already finished. In that same fight, a marauder would have done around ten times the dps of a marine to those ultras (as well as living longer), so imagine if he just had like 15 marauders instead of 30 of those marines. OR he could have gotten ghosts and just sniped them all down.
Ultras basically counter one thing and it's marines lol.
"Like the Barrier Reef. Simply GREAT" :D
Thank you for inadvertiedly teaching my tid bits of star craft that I will probably never grasp and fail to achieve XD but I still appricate the information c:
Hey captain, I think one thing that might be interesting to explore during IODIS would be using the resume from replay feature to highlight certain points.
Bro bio was supposed to be a 1 and 2 tier unit, except fot the ghost
The DPS of 2 medevacs of marauders is insane, especially when they are trapped in the medevac... Insane that they're trapped.
It’s actually been a minute since I watched a harstem vid. He does not disappoint
It's Xang Yu not Sun Zsu who blocked his own retreat to make his troops fight harder. Xiang Yu told his troops to sink their boats and break their cooking pots before a battle so they couldn't retreat back accross the river and would starve to death if they didn't hadn't won. This action (破釜沉舟） became an idiom to describe going all-in.
Thank you. Was looking for the actual story. Harstem's crossed references bugged me the whole video...
2 years later, and totally irelevant;
Tsun Tzu also didnt write the art of the deal.. That book was by DJT..
Tsun Tzu Wrote The Art of War.
But Im pretty sure it was just a slip of the tongue
gl on your next dreamhack match, no pressure but I damn near every cent I have on you beating serral tomorrow. You got this!
"Art of the deal", the chapter where he explains how to defeat your enemies by selling them a billion vacuum cleaners was the bomb !
16:30 The IODIS psychic strikes again!
Hamster did a great job with this one as always.
This episode Harstem really shone though imo. It's great how he doesn't fear being wrong and admits to mistakes. Also late videos are ok, it's not easy when you get shoved and imprisoned in a cave on a regular basis and we viewers should respect that.
19:58 love how he just kills the rocks and doesn't care about the army xD Kinda BM IMO
He can do whatever he wants game is already over that's not BM
"I F2 and move out with my maxxed army...he crushed my army without any micro."
Anybody else see a problem here? I think Harstem mentioned something before about human players feeling entitled to a win when having the same level as their opponent.
its crazy that that zerg was still alive at the 11 minute mark being down 40 supply, down in # of workers, and yet still floating 2.4k minerals. was the terran just not applying pressure throughout this game? how is a zerg able to float so much minerals for so long and not die
Interestingly enough. I've lost to games like this. You think the opponent is dead but then they insta remass and never hit 200 supply. So you end up attacking in shitty positions. The pressure does help. But idk. I don't think I've ever floated 2.5 for longer than a minute and that's because I was maxed.
liked know, will watch later, I am confident it will be nice as usual X))
The number of times I lost like this in master league... You think you're winning and things are going great, but then 5 ultras pop and you're not fast enough to go hide behind the wall and wait for marauders... and bam you're dead.
Also the banes in the 85 marines push did a lot of damage. Not only the Ultra;s
As far as I remember his paper Sun Tzu tended towards the statement that a man without a way out is a dangerous (less predictable) adversary. Pretty sure he never advised to purposefully do that to his own troops. (Keep in mind that the troops may chose to surrender to the opponent instead of keep fighting and selling their lifes as expensive as possible.)
"control is awful" as the video playback shows a series of beautiful splits.
I don't even play SC2 but I still find this channel immensely entertaining. subscribed.
Somebody should tell Plato that medivacs are able to pick up marines, not just mines.
Hahahaha! Harstem.... you are hilarious! I kinda want to send you one of my replayes (silver 2) jsut for you to trash... tough learning is the best kind of learning! But yea, only started playing SC2 less than a month back and I play with Terran but I watch a lot of your vids!
Sun Tzu: "Art of the Deal" 😂
i think this is the first time i've seen someone complain about ultras being too powerful unironically.
Banshees did not fly into spores and did not nuke entire own army; however, marines did indeed walk into splash. Balance whine: initiated.
That's a reference if I have ever seen one!
Great humour as always!
69 marines? Nice.
Jokes aside, I have never seen ultras look like such heroes
You my friend are the funniest SC2 caster there is. I love it!
sun tzu the art of the deal lol you're killing me dude
Pretty sure this is why most people make Siege tanks instead of Mines. He could of had much better fights with tanks raining down on enemies from afar, but I don't know if he has the control to micro that properly
16:30 No feelings were harmed in the making of this video.
"Who attacks like this?" Every diamond league zerg does. He should have known.
Not everyone. I dont do mass ling for 5 mins then throw 7 bones every 3 mins to 7 ultra. I find ultra play boring. And doesn't work past plat 2 most the time. I prefer ling bane hydra or ling bane muta, ultra for a supporting role.
Wait a minute, didn't Artosis just release a video about this? "100 Trained Space Marine Soldiers or 3 Ultralisks" :D
Love the pun with 'art of the deals.
In all seriousness, Art of War specified that you should BEWARE OF THE ENEMY WITH NO WHERE TO RUN, for if faced with the reality that they may die regardless, they will fight with zeal and reckless abandon. Sun Tzu considers a cornered opponent, a dangerous one. The Art of War specifically says 'do not press your enemy to hard, always leave them a path of retreat. A cornered foe is the most dangerous one and will fight viciously'.
There is an old Parable that was NOT in the Art of War but attributed to it, in which a general sent his infantry to the bottom of a hill with their formation backed by a river, while the Generals Calvary remained on the hill. He purposely put them in a position with no where to run. The fortress enemy saw this and held a high ground advantage, and considered the position of his enemy to be worthy of a strike as it had no path of retreat. He lead his forced on a charge on the infantry force that was surrounded and to his surprise, they held their ground. Accepting their fate, the infantry like demons taking many with them as they fell. The attacker then charged with his calvary seeing the defender take the bait.
When. The battle was over, the Generals debated their tactics with the defender asking how he could lose, he has the high ground and superior position as advised by Sun Tzu's Art of War. Then the attacker reminded him of the parable I mentioned before, where attacking a cornered enemy is of great risk.
This is NOT replicated in Star Craft. Period. It's a morale related military wisdom and is not adapted in most RTS games. Units will fight at their same statistical prowess they're programmed with regardless of the position you out them in. There's no such thing as heroics in SC2s units, just mindless bots following basic directives.
i love the famous manuscript by Sun Tzu, "The Art of the Deal"
Brilliant commentary man! Amazed at your Philosophy knowledge.
we're seeing a kinder, gentler harstem
In the first big fight there were actually several banes that hit while the ultras were tanking
Great video. Liked and subscribed.
Heartstim plz, more IODIS. Best idea ever conceived. We need more!!!
Here is a smash to keep you uploading on time
I think Harstem was right, but didn't really go back and look at it. I think the guy did stim multiple times in quick succession in multiple battles.
Little known fact: Sun Tzu was also an avid golfer!
My man just needed more marauders. I can't believe he didn't wait for like 10 marauders in his army before he moved out with those insane marines count.
Back in the day marauders were like a soft counter to ultras. With proper control you could totally kill a couple ultras with 12 stimmed marauders
When an immovable army composition gets hit by an unstoppable ultra, that was discovered by studying moving shadows of marines on the walls for 13 minutes.
I can almost see how he thought Ultras were imba. The later into the match it gets, the more his mines are either out of position or doing just as much friendly fire. Those filled Medivacs not fighting was also painful. Had he put 1-2 Hellions/1-2 Marauders in with his earlier pushes, he would have steamrolled over the Zerg.
I mashed a bunch of units together in a simulator, ultras are one of the few units that can beat marines at the same cost. Equal upgrades.
5:50 this is why I'm subscribed
LOL TLDR: I made T1 2/2 marines all game. Opponent made Max upgraded 3/3(5)? T3 units. Mass marine no win. T3 unit imba.