The REAL Problem With Trek…
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I will be talking about why I think trek bikes are not doing as good as they were before.
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Interesting how you mention the Trek Marlin. When my daughter was looking to get a new bike during C19, we went to my local bike shop (who also sells Trek) and ended up walking out with a Marlin 5. She wanted a bike that was reliable and could be taken on mild trails (so she could also mtb with her 6 year old son). She's since been on a local novice level mtb trail, which is super easy, but it's all new to her so it's scary for her (it's all relative) - even things like 'what if my wheel goes off the trail' is a new and frightening experience, where for me, I don't even think about it. She has no idea how minimalistic the bike is, but that doesn't stop her from riding it. I think Trek has positioned that model lineup (Marlin) as a 'gateway drug' kinda bike, where most people won't even mountain bike with it, but want a bike that COULD do it (and have a nice new paint job). She was a bit sticker shocked at even the $500-600 price tag, which if you're not immersed in the 'bike world' you'd probably have that perception too (as most of the general public does). That said, in the 1980's when I got my first mtb, a fully rigid Specialized Rockhopper, we didn't have ANY of the things that even the most basic mtbs like the Marlin have today - that Marlin my daugter has, would have been viewed as a top level state of the art dream machine back then, and now it's a starter bike......oh the things we take for granted!
💯 been riding for years. Bought a GEN2 Marlin6 and upgraded tires, seat, grips, pedals, and forks. It's a great bike for the money. I tell people at work that the Marlin 6 would've been top of the line years ago.
Yeah, sometimes I'll stop on the trail and just marvel at how good bikes are these days, considering how crude they were when I started eons ago....
@@MM-yy9ib
Great to hear your thoughts! Hope to catch you on the trails
@@I_Love_My_Little_Willy upgrade the fork.
@@MM-yy9ibI have a marlin 4 gen 2
I was a Trek dealer for 22 years and no longer carry the brand. What the average consumer does not see is how they bully dealers into only carrying their products. They insisted that 50% of everything I but has to be from them and they wanted to look at my books to make sure. I told them that I would show them my books but I wanted to see theirs. I also told them that I was not their
employee. So glad I parted ways with these guys and now we sell what we want. Word on the street is that they are deep in debt with too much inventory that is not selling
Just like the auto industry it seems that they are catering and focusing on the higher margin/expensive top of the line bikes, which makes it very difficult to afford a really nice capable basic bike for the average consumer. This might come back to bite them when the cost of entry into bicycling will prohibit attracting new riders, due to the high cost
I worked at Trek in the mid 90s. What an interesting, though disheartening job. I experienced what you are describing, but from the other side. I have lots of stories, almost none of them positive, though almost all are entertaining.
What was most difficult for me was not being able to treat our best dealers the way I wanted to. We had to give extra attention, cut deals, and make all kinds of exceptions for dealers who bought a lot, even if they were terrible customers, and owed us a ton of money. I didn't last long.
@donsbikes1967nova That's what a lot of Specialized haters say about Specialized. Do all the manufacturers do this?
@@barfo281 Former professional mechanic and bike industry worker myself (14+ years if I recall correctly). One of the places where I worked, a 7+ store chain, carried Specialized until Specialized demanded 50% of all bikes and accessory SKUs be devoted to them. I get minimums are required by each brand, but to demand that they are the majority of what you sell is anti-competitive. We didn’t carry them the following season and replaced them with LeMond and Gary Fisher.
Trek’s strategy is buying up all the independent bike shops that are willing to sell and making them Trek stores only. I suppose it’s one way to ensure that in a given radius, depending where you live, Trek stores will outnumber any other bike brand. In my locale, there are 3 Trek stores and 3 independent shops within a 15 minute drive.
I own two Treks and was looking to buy another one, but the sale they currently have the "Trek Fest" is a joke. The cycling industry is hurting really bad right now and most other bike brands are giving deep discounts but Trek is being greedy. I guess they are not hurting as much as they feel like they don't have to give deep discounts.
For a guy that only started mountain biking....biking in general... in the last four years, your analysis of Trek's troubles is spot on and so honest! I hope Trek is listening.
Dude! I've been riding for over 30yrs and just came across your channel. You are on point! So awesome seeing your progression into the sport and getting the riding bug. Massive kudos for sharing and inspiring others with your story. As you've hit on, sharing the ride is one of the best aspects of the sport! Keep pedaling my bro! 🤘
Worked with Trek bikes for years and yes their budget bikes can be a little better bang for the buck but their products are always top notch. Where I worked we dealt Giant and Trek, yes Giants were better bang for the buck but man was assembling and tuning them a pain, whereas Trek bikes always came together way easier and were a pleasure to assemble. I also respect that they are still privately owned in a time where shareholders come before the clients and staff the corporate culture and values are A1 in my dealings with them and anybody I knew who worked for them said it was one of the best work experiences they had.
Just to finish I'm taking Giant to Canadian Consumer protection agency due to them not wanting to honor their warranty claim on my 2013 Trance X29, frame cracked at weld on the underside where the seat and top tube meet.
Now I'm back to riding Norco, got 2023 Sight A2 because of the launch of the new HP version but one day I still dream of owning a Trek, maybe a Ticket S or Session or / Slash
Love your content Brother, keep on shredding !!!
the reason why I went with trek is generally the reason everyone is pissed at trek: the trek dealers are all around the country. anywhere I am with my bike, i can generally be sure that there is a trek dealer nearby and i can always find parts and service for my trek. also that warranty is nice. but since i have been looking at upgrading to a full sus, i am going through the same issues as you struggling to find something worth the money id be dumping into it
That seems to be the number one factor that allows them to sell in such high volume ( given a normal market). Just about every post on Reddit that mentions someone considering a Roscoe also mentions how convenient buying from their local Trek dealer would be. I hate to see so many independent shops being gobbled up but their strategy definitely has merit.
Real talk I think the bikes overall are too expensive. (I ride specialized just because I’m not a fan of look of treks but that’s my own issue.)Both companies know this and it’s not something that’s sustainable. Most people buy a bike and keep it a long time. Reasonable prices might let people come back and buy a second and third bike because we all know there is no one good bike for everything.
Hey, don‘t know if they are still available in the US, but the Fuel EX 7 and 8 (previous gen), aswell as the Remedy 7 and 8 are heavily discounted. They are well spec‘d and the prices go from 2500-3000 € here in the EU depending on what you want.
@kentao4 I rode/raced specialized for years and while yes its not the cheapest but the quality is very good. I've been riding my sworks for over 10 years now and it's been great and I'm not planning on buying a new bike anytime soon
I agree completely on the Marlin. Bought my 2020 Marlin 7 at the beginning of covid when it was $799. Great bike compared to all the big box bikes I had owned as a teenager, but once I wanted to upgrade components, I learned the limitations of the frame. There is absolutely zero reason these days for a bike to have a straight head tube and a very flimsy rear axle. Yes. you can use a tapered fork with an adapter, but it just shouldn't be designed that way to begin with. Even the newer Walmart bikes have tapered head tubes.
I forget what it's called, but Seth recommended a Walmart bike for that exact reason. For a lot of beginners Trek will get the job done, but there's just so many better options, most people just don't know about them. Problem with Trek is you're paying for those brick and mortar locations. You're paying for their sales reps and your biggest expense when buying a Trek, you're paying for their marketing and advertising. When you're on a $600-$800 budget, you're not getting much bike after you trim all the fat.
Worst part is, these beginners ask their friends what to get, and they don't know any better so they recommend a Marlin 7 which IMO is trash.
End of the day I hope people are happy, and if it gets them off the couch and on a bike, it really doesn't matter what they're riding.
@@topspot4834 I wish I knew about Polygon bikes back then. Holy crap those guys offer such a good value compared to the rest of the industry.
I'm looking to upgrade my current hardtail which unfortunately I purchased just before tapered head tubes, boost axles, 27.5 / 29" wheels and the modern geo changes. I went into a local shop a few weeks ago and they steered me towards a Trek Marlin which intially seemed like a bargin as it was discounted to just over half price. Then I noticed the straight head tube, quick release drop outs, narrow rims and upon later checking the geo that was as out of date as my current bike. The only benefit over my current bike would have been an entry level air fork compared to my entry level coil fork and a 1x drive train ( I don't consider 27.5" wheels to be a significant upgrade over 26" just another marketing ploy that the masses bought into).
All of the reasons I have for wanting to upgrade were not on this new bike but none of them would significantly alter the price and they should all have been there. They're selling you something that is already obsolete so that when you realise you want something better you have to buy a complete new bike rather than just upgrade components overtime.
Did I buy one? No way.
I could spend less money on a better Deore 1x drivetrain and a better fork for my current bike. I can still just about find a straight steer tube Suntour Epicon which would beat the XCM that came on the Marlin. I could probably also run to a new 27.5 front wheel and get a boost thru axle version and still spend less than the discounted Marlin.
I haven't done that either because I really want to try up to date geo but everytime I find something in my price range they haven't got a small. When I ask if they can order my size the answer is always "no this is all we have but you'll be fine on a medium".
And they wonder why so much of the industry is in trouble. People have finally woken up to the fact that we were ripped off during covid and the following few years. Most of us don't need the latest, greatest all singing and dancing machine and most of us can no longer afford them anyway but that doesn't mean we are prepared to by obsolete frames either.
@@topspot4834 been riding for years and my GEN2 Marlin 6 is better than any Walmart bike. Specs on these Marlins were considered top end years back. Upgraded tires, seat, grips, pedals, and fork. I've had the expensive bikes and still upgraded. Road, mountain, tour, we all upgraded, no matter the cost.
You are On-Point as usual Matty! I appreciate your relatable view on mountain biking! Keeping it real.
I bought a Top Fuel.
And I see that some of the cost probably went into the frame itself.
The quality is really quite good.
Me too , I have a 2021 Top Fuel 9.8 & love it, great all round bike
@@jimmansi1187 I put a 140 fork on the font. I am thinking of over stroking the shock and running the link in high. That will bring the back end up to 130mm
Top fuels are the best bike in the world.I have 2 😘
Matty, I’ve been watching for some time and this vid brought me out. I volunteer to build and maintain trails, coming to mtb in the last few months, lovin’ it! Back to the subject, Trek owns ‘Trek Trails’. Currently Trek Trails is SERIOUSLY supporting the sport by ponying-up loads of money to buy land and build trails throughout North America. This ain’t cheap and should be celebrated. If more manufacturers stepped up to support the sport in this way, we could nudge those ATV guys out of our sight, hearing and breathing space with more trails for bikes. Keep asking questions, adding content and riding.
Couple of points, you can ride a hardtail anywhere. It all depends on the level of comfort you want. I rode a full ridged SS Bianchi SASS through the whole enchilada in Utah. It worked just fine. Sure it was harder than using a full suspension but it was still very enjoyable as I’m not a pro racer or trying to fly through the trails as the journey is where it’s at for me. So yea a quality hardtail can go anywhere and do most anything.
When I got into it I had a buddy who told me the opposite… he said, buy the most bike/frame/suspension you can get for your $. As you advance you’ll grow into it and not have to keep upgrading. My first purchase in the bike world was a 2003 Santa Cruz Blur for $2k. It was orange with Fox suspension front and rear. I rode that bike for 15 years and never needed anything more as it had everything I needed to ride anyplace but a jump park. I eventually got other bikes for the fun/challenge of trying something less capable like the SASS. The only reason I eventually got another bike in 2019 was because the Santa Cruz was stolen out of my truck. I had to replace tires brakes and the center shock and had the fork rebuilt a couple times but that happens over time if you use it. I replaced that bike with a Yeti SB130 with that I got for $3500 new. It’s way more capable than I am but I shouldn’t need to buy any other bikes for 15-20 years hopefully.
All that to say, IMO get the best trail bike you can afford with the best fork and center shock. It may cost you 4k but you can ride that thing for 20 years if you take care of it.
You’re loyal to a brand that was good to you which is respectable but you also tried other brands without losing your love for Trek. I think we all like that about you
Great video! I have a question for you. I’m getting my first mtn bike and wanted to know which you recommend. A new roscoe 8 on sale for $1450 or a marlin 8? Could a roscoe be used for same stuff as a marlin?
I own many Treks, and love them, But after I bought my Santa Cruz Bronson c, carbon, with carbon wheels, a rattle free 26 pound bike, I never looked back. I do ride a Marlin 5 6 and 7 on road, and trail all the time, and for the money they are awesome bikes.
I came across your channel recently, the one where you first tried the Marlin 6. You give a refreshing take from other channels, who deal almost exclusively with thousands of dollars' worth bikes.
I recently got a Marlin 7, even though it's categorised as budget bike, here in India it's not quite affordable for most people. Seeing you go through the trails with your Marlin 6, goes to show how capable these "budget bikes" are and is more than enough, for most people.
Anyway, keep up the great work.
Thank you!
Marty, your on point! I started with a rockhopper and I quickly realized that these big brands are selling a name and not the product. As I learned much more about biking I too realized that there’s brands out here selling bikes with alot more upgrades around the same price that trek and specialized sell there basic equipped bikes for. The struggle for these big brands and understanding their customers want value. Sheer volume in sales for better valued bikes would’ve kept you from the current situation.
I have a Trek 3700 in 2007, brand new. I picked it out solely due to color and it was within my budget as I was 16. It's been a beast of bike and has put on over 50k miles since. I've gotten into hard-core cycle touring and was looking to upgrade my bike to something more fitting for my needs. Learned the issues with the bike industry, and decided to spend around a grand to upgrade components on the bike that I have. I'd rather spend that grand to upgrade what I know than spend 2-4k on a new bike that still needs further money to upgrade components.
For $1000, at the minimum, you should get a tapered head tube and through axles.
QR and straight head tubes are not upgradeable.
Its really this simple.
Problem with Trek is you're paying for those brick and mortar locations. You're paying for their sales reps and your biggest expense when buying a Trek, you're paying for their marketing and advertising. When you're on a $600-$800 budget, you're not getting much bike after you trim all the fat.
Worst part is, these beginners ask their friends what to get, and they don't know any better so they recommend a Marlin 7 which IMO is trash.
End of the day I hope people are happy, and if it gets them off the couch and on a bike, that's a good thing no matter what they're riding. It's about being happy and getting a little exercise, and you can do that on a Walmart bike, a Trek or a $15,000 Specialized e-bike.
Your video popped up for me, love the story. I got a specialized hardrock full rigid bike back in 1998 and have been hooked since then. Had many bikes and build a few. Just finished building Ibis Mojo 3 last year, my 3rd Ibis. Have Salsa Backsaw and a gravel bike.
Can’t wait for the next video! I’m actually in the middle of getting my first mountain bike back up and running! Got a pink Salsa Timberjack 27.5+ that I plan on using for commuting and some fun front range rides!
I don't know if they will bounce back. I hear they are doing a 10% cuts( redirect) across the whole departments and a 40% cut on all of their current skews. This indicates major changes. What do this means for the consumer?
Trek has been pricey, but my local dealer has been nothing but amazing
Bikes depend on components that are packaged to a certain price point. Some bike brands off better component packaging at certain price points. Some brands attempt to offer many models at price points from low to heigh while others like auto makers go after the higher end of the market. Trek, Giant and Specialized are like Ford, General Motors and Chrysler. Then you have other higher end brands like Santa Cruz etc that start in the mid price rang and go up. As your riding level and experience increases so does the price level of the equipment necessary to fit your needs. However lots of riders buy more bike than they need for what the type of terrain they ride most frequently.
Price to spec ratio for Trek, Santa Cruz, Specialized is very high. I went with Marin for that reason. On the other hand, some people feel good paying top dollar for stuff and telling everybody about it.😁
You are on point brother! Trek banks on its name but there are many brands like giant, polygon etc that offers more for the price. And I also started with a marlin!
Every bike company did the same thing, push the expensive bikes. Especially during the big V timeframe. They are too greedy to go back to the core customer. They are hungry for that easy green.
I respect trek. My GF bought an EX5, it came with a 175 crank which was much too large. I wrote the company and they set it straight by getting her a 170 crank installed. We have since upgraded the bike and it is wonderful. She loves it.
If I upgrade my marlin 4 what marlin should I get ? Not trying to spend more then 1k
Love your videos, you never miss. I landed on a trek because I’m a big guy…6’10” 250ish, and it’s hard to find a decent bike in that size. I went with the Trek X-Caliber because it’s a big bike. But it’s missing many features…like a rear through-axle.
I went through a similar scenario as you (with less new bike days) but I started biking in 2020 during covid and I got myself a Roscoe 7. I did research and compared it to dozens of other bikes and I felt that it was the best deal for that kind of bike at the time. I still have that bike with over 2000 miles on it. I picked up a second hand trek 1.1 road bike and got really into the long distance road riding and touring. I was looking at also upgrading to a carbon bike so naturally I was looking at a trek checkpoint sl5 gravel bike. The problem is it was over $3000 for a bike with a nice carbon frame but mid level mechanical shifters and hydraulic brakes. I did a lot more research and found an aluminum bike called Roll: A:1R which is exactly what I was looking for minus the carbon frame but I also saw that carbon isn’t the best for bikepacking/touring. And best of all it was $1250 after tax with sram rival shifters and sram GX derailleur with some cheapo Chinese mechanical disk brakes. But even if I got a nicer set of calipers I would be into this bike under 1/2 the price of that trek. The biggest difference between these bikes is the carbon frame and just a neat fact the Trek Ckeckpoint ALR aluminum frameset costs more than the entire Roll:
I went to a trek store a few months ago and they were trying to sell me a very expensive bike even though I told them that I am looking for an entry level bike so I can try mountain biking. I did my homework and I ended up buying a different brand instead because the other store were very helpful and like you said they made me very comfortable and got me the right bike for my skill level
I still ride my Santa Cruz super light that I got back around 2009. All we have close to us is xc trails, so I never felt like the price of a new fs bike would be really worth it to me. A lot of steep hills, but no rocks or man made features.
Love your covering man. The average daily consumer appreciates it! I had the exact same Trek as my entry to mtb. Though the more I got closer to fs, the more I couldn't justify the x fusion and low end rockshox for a 2600$ price point (fuel 5). I really believe trek is trying to market more like a Santa Cruz. Aiming for a higher end customer. But in my and your obvious opinion, they don't deliver with the pricing. I have the polygon t8 (always wanted a trek fs) and I have absolutely no regrets. The frame is heavier and there are other minute differences, but the full fox front and rear for trek starts at like 5k.
Love the channel! Keep em coming!
I ride a 2012 Trek Marlin 29r. I upgraded the fork,bars, drivetrain, brakes. And it now rides like a much more expensive bike. Mine has a tapered head tube.but yes no thru-axle .I guess since it's an early model. In 2012 the Marlin, Mamba and Excalibur had the same frame with the tapered head tube but with different forks and drivetrain and components. Minus the no thru-axle i was still able to upgrade the fork from a suntour to a Rock Shock XC32 air shock and to a SLX drivetrain with a race face front chainring.and Origin8 crank.
I don't think there is any issue here, why push the bikes that sell themselves? Their time is better spent trying to get those higher end bikes to the people who have started with Marlins and want to upgrade. They've recently dipped their prices a bit and seems like things are falling back into place.
You made some great points regarding the Marlin specs for the $. Makes it more difficult to upgrade the front fork without a tapered head tube, but that line is also geared toward all around, and light trail riding with the Marlin 4 & 5. They probably should have stopped there along with the dual sport. And instead of the 6 & up focused on their other hard tails. Funny listening to you talk about your entry into, and progression in trail riding. Got my son a Marlin 4 a couple years ago and he took to riding like a fish to water which had me buying a used Marlin 4 soon after so we could ride together. We’ve both made upgrades to our M 4’s & I recently added a Top Fuel. Also got my son a gravel bike he wanted as his high school graduation present. So I’m just smiling and nodding my head listening to you talk about those bikes.
You can put a tapered fork on a Marlin. You need a different headset wheee the bottom Cup is external, FSA make one. I had a Pike on my Kona Honzo that had a straight steerer tube.
Trek gets away with higher prices because they just have really good brand recognition. When I got into MTB last year my research led me to getting a Canyon Grand Canyon 7, as it had the best components I could find for the best price. My wife wanted to get a bike too, and insisted on getting a Trek (Marlin 6) even though she was paying almost the same price as I did for my Canyon and getting significantly lower-end components. And she knew she was paying more and getting less, but for her it was a matter of always knowing of/seeing Trek as a high-end brand, and always wanting a Trek if she were to get a nice bike some day. I feel Specialized is similar to Trek in this way, but I think their bikes are quite a bit better than Trek's.
Also you're right - I have always seen Trek as the brand that caters to suburbanites, weekend warriors, and familes - not a brand that makes high-performance machines like Yeti or Santa Cruz or something.
I'm not a fan of Specialized, but their bikes are better than Trek. A lot better... And on the high end, Yeti is easily the most overrated. Santa Cruz, Pivot and even Ibis and Transition are better bikes IMO.
Smart choice with the Canyon BTW! My wife also got a Trek, she just liked knowing she can go into a brick and mortar shop and see it before buying it. I honestly don't care what she or anyone rides though. So long as they're outside having fun, that's really all that matters at the end of the day!
@@topspot4834Word, I thought of Yeti because it's another brand that really focuses on racing and its sponsored racers with its marketing. Ibis, Orbea, Transition and Fezzari are the bikes I frequently oggle at haha. And ya, honestly the Marlin for my wife has been great and it's been the only bike she's owned as an adult that she actually wants to get out and ride - so no complaints from me!
And ya dude, the Canyon was amazing for my first year of riding, and funny enough I ended up buying a FS Yeti late last year lol! Except the catch is it's a 10 year old Yeti SB95 that I got from a friend for a great deal at $500 - it was in really good shape but needed an overhaul in terms of new parts. I've replaced just about everything on it except the fox 34 factory fork it came with - so far it's been an amazing bike and even after all the parts upgrades it's been kind to my wallet. Plan is to ride this bike into the ground for the next year or two before dropping the cash on a new expensive bike.
@@topspot4834word, I was mainly mentioning Yeti because I know they're another brand that really focuses on racing, and their marketing reflects that. When I'm oggling bikes I'm usually looking at Ibis, Orbea, Fezzari, and Transition haha. But ya, honestly the Trek has been really good for my wife, and it has been ridden the most miles out of any bike she's owned as an adult - so I really can't complain.
And ya dude, the Canyon is great! It is exactly what I wanted from my first bike, and I don't think I could have made a better choice. I'm still riding it regularly, but funnily enough I upgraded to a FS Yeti to be my primary trail bike going forward - the catch is it's a 10 year old model SB95 that I only bought because I got it for a steal of a deal at $500. It was in excellent shape but needed a parts overhaul, which I was happy to give it. I wouldn't drop $6k on a new Yeti, but I gotta admit this bike friggin' shreds and is a ton of fun to ride. Bonus points for my wallet being happy too, because I've spent significantly less than I would have buying any new bike on the market.
I have a Canyon, but the lack of retail shop front means you’ve gotta know what you are doing. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Canyon, and the value was sensational, but I wouldn’t recommend it as someone’s first bike.
They did the the same with road bikes, 10 yrs ago 105 and Ultegra equip was attainable for aver riders. Now thats a $5-6000 bike, too rich for most
That is not true the trek domane AL 5 gen 4 comes with a 105 group set for just over 2000 dollars.
This is really interesting, as a Trek Fuel EX owner with a wife that rides a Polygon Siskiu D7 I understand all the arguments on both sides...however...I use the Trek site quite often and ever since this information was "leaked" the site has been slow. I decided to look at bike availability, and while my comments are anecdotal, there's plenty of bikes that are not available. Is it possible this "leak" has created a buzz? 🤔
My first Trek was a 4300 in 2010, I uprated the transmission and brakes and rode that thing everywhere and finally got rid of it in 2015 when my Doctor told me that because of my back injuries I shouldn't be riding.
Roll on 2020 and I once again aimed to get myself a bike but because of covid and the world shortage and also the pricing I could not afford a Trek and ended up with a Cube Analogue, which with the Hydraulic brakes 1x12 Sram drivetrain and Rockshock remote lockout forks Trek would have cost me 50% more than what I paid for the Cube which I could not afford at the time.
You are most definitely correct, the industry on a whole are pushing dub and through axles as they havnt yet set on a standardised system like we had for so long with QR skewers and they dont offer these new technologies even though they cost pennies to manufacture to those on a smaller budget.
Last year I spent another £500 on upgrades on my Cube but I am literally at the end of what I can achieve in upgrades due to all the higher end wheels/hubs, drivetrain and front shocks literally not being able to fit on my frame and with more of the industry going bust and closing their doors it is getting harder to find companies that cater with great quality for the cheaper frame and fork sets.
I am literally 44 and dont see myself upgrading my bike anytime soon as it is more important to make sure my Son gets the best possible moving forward but the manufacturers need to come to a decision moving forward that not everyone can afford the massive outlay on a new bike, but what they will do over time is pay to upgrade the bits on the bike they already have chasing the bike they always wanted, for me it is simple, upgrade every part to the bits I want and the last change is to buy the better frame and transfer everything over to it and put the standard parts back on the old bike and sell it or pass it on, this would allow me the opportunity to have a bime that would probably retail in the thousands but to have built it myself and with a better spec than the manufacturer would ever give me
I think we also need to stop chasing electric everything on cycles, I dont need a gearing to not work just because I forgot to charge the batteries, I want simple cable operated gearing but to the same high spec as the electric versions, I am forever seeing AXS systems, whatever happened to a really well designed and high spec derailleur like the 3x9 SRAM XO from 2008 with its billet aluminium and carbon with red accents, they looked great on my Trek 4300 and maintenance was simple and the shifting was just sublime.
Great insights. I also started riding in earnest summer of 2020. Had old 2004 26er Stumpy I thought about fixing up but at the time...good luck with that. So I wandered into LBS and was sold a 2020 Slash 8. I knew almost nothing about mountain bikes or mountain biking and it was obvious I didn't! Knowing what I know now, it's questionable that I was sold that much bike when the vast majority of riding in my area isn't suited for it - never mind my skill and fitness levels at the time which also were not a good fit for such a heavy, aggressive bike. It didn't help that I had more than my fair share of issues with the bike early on that required a lot of repair and warranty work which I also lacked the knowledge and experience to really understand the way I do now. Fast forward to today, my family has a fleet of six bikes for four riders (Dad has three...it's good to be the king) - only one is a Trek. We love MTB and continue to ride often - doing our part. Ending on a Trek-positive note, I put some sweet upgrades into that Slash and it absolutely rips in the right situations which as I've progressed I've come to appreciate. It is reliable, easy to keep dialed, tough as nails and a ton of fun to ride - DOWNHILL! Plows through chunk like you wouldn't believe. No question it's a quality product, and it will always have a special place in my heart. I just rarely ride it. Let's hope the industry as a whole finds a way to reinvent itself and weather this storm. We can do our part by RIDING as often as possible! Cheers....
Good analysis, really enjoyed your take on the matter. One thing to note, the marlin (and similar models from different brands) is basically their “cash cow”. They don’t see a reason to promote because there will always be a market for the typical entry level mountain bike, and they will make money regardless. I agree with the fact that they need to update the frame with a tapered head tube, threaded bb, etc. so hopefully that’s coming down the pipeline. Another note, Trek has been one of the main names in racing for a long time…hence the high end model promotion. I see it as they want to maintain that and be seen as a high end brand with entry/intermediate level options. With trek being a huge corporation, it does blur the lines a bit and make things confusing. This is what I’ve gathered from my 13 years of mountain bike riding and racing and 4 years of working in the industry. Times are tough right now for any company in the industry and it looks like brands are being as conservative as possible which may come off as lazy or weird marketing.
This is why my bike shoprecomended me a Kona Lava Dome over the Marlin, the Kona has a tappered head tube, better for future upgrades.
Same sentiment. Bought last year a Kona Mahuna over Trek Marlin...
Never heard of that
I ride a 2012 trek fuel ex 8
It’s been absolutely great the last 10 years. That’s why i stick with trek
Man you are one of my favorite TH-camrs period. You are one of the only people I know that doesn't push people to spend money on a bike! Thats my main problem with the mountain bike community too many people push for you to get a full suspension or look down on cheaper bikes, like just let me ride! Great video thanks for talking about stuff like this!
Two of my previous bikes were all demo bikes which are usually getting sold off in the fall. Great way to get a gread deal on a bike. I paid $2800 shipped for a $5000 Salsa Backsaw from a dealer in Colorado, fully tunned. I did ended up upgrading almost everything on it with time and use it as my winter bike. Back around 2016 I scored a demo Ibis SL with a nice build for $1700 and sold it for $1600 two years later and it was still a good deal.
Interesting content. Audio gain is
super high with AGC limiting, peaky spoken sections after gaps.
My first bike was 2015 trek marlin 5, loved that bike but as my skills progress I couldn't really upgrade anything on that bike so I ended upgrading to stumpy and now I ride ibis dv9
From my LBS, the head mechanic told me that the reason Trek bikes are so expensive is because you can buy one bike for life. Trek has the best customer support for their products, including schematics, diagrams, sale of individual components, etc. After buying a used 2012 Remedy 9.8, I was able to rebuild the entire bike (bearings and all) with visuals provided by the Trek archive. Still, I don't think I could ever justify spending what they're asking for a new Trek.
you only buy their names and reputation but it doesnt mean you buy by their performance
I went from a khs to a Roscoe 8 to a Santa Cruz carbon chameleon and finally a Santa Cruz hightower v3 2024!! And definitely stuck with Santa Cruz ounce I swapped brands
Thanks for your perspective on both your bike buying experience and the latest Trek news. It's appreciated. Trek's plan to reduce the number of SKUs is a good move. They don't need half a dozen trim levels of each bike. The Fuel alone comes in 5, 7, 8, 9.7, 9.8, 9.9. Not to mention size and color differences. I'm sure I missed some other options. Your thoughts about to much focus on racing is to common in the industry.
Too much focusing on brand names distracts people from focusing on things that matter.
I have no brand loyalty whatsoever: I currently own a Canyon, Cannondale, Specialized, and a Ventum. Thus, I have a gravel bike, plus three road bikes.
I agree with 100% bro… I love my Trek Marlin 6 but I really want a Trek Fuel EX 5. Dropping $2,500 in today’s economy is like giving up a kidney lol. The crazy thing is I’m still going to get a Trek Fuel EX 5 soon because I became a Trek guy.
I got a Fuel Ex 8 October last year. Rode it a few times by now and I'm really enjoying it. Even managed one crash already, due to my stupidity, but not a scratch on it.
I have purchased two trek bikes (roscoe 9 and fuel ex 8 gen 6) and i have to say they are absolute monsters, got them on crazy sale as well so i cant really say a bad thing about them/
I have a roscoe 9 and recently noticed the rear brake caliper bolt isnt square. At first I thought the bolt was bent so took it out to put a new one in but it's totally straight, nothing wrong with it... Basically the hole for the bolt wasn't drilled square, it is 1 maybe 2 degrees off causing the bolt and more so the washer to get extremely close to the brake disc. Thus making it a PITA to adjust and get right. I spent far too long getting it set up right the other day.
You think when paying so much for a bike you get decent quality
I guess if Trek went the GT route they could sell their XC budget friendly hardtail at a big box type store as well. In Canada Sportchek carries GT and my first bike with gears was a GT Aggressor comp 29, it did the job despite the geometry making it feel more like a road bike than a trail bike, I guess thats just XC type geometry in general though. Because I have 25+ years on street/park BMX bikes though, I progressed to riding black diamonds in only a matter of months, basically once my fitness level improved enough to find them. At that point I knew I needed a hardtail that was more robust like a big BMX to smash around and take some actual abuse, unfortunately GT doesnt really have an inbetween entry level and full suspension higher end bikes, so when I was getting my GT tuned up at a local shop I checked out a Canadian brand with a lifetime frame warranty, Devinci. The price on their hardcore hardtail "Kobain" was more than double what my Aggressor was, but I went with it anyways, its very similar to the Trek Roscoe series, but its not made overseas whatsoever which I like that fact as it means providing jobs directly to Canadians, and stricter quality control. So far so good, Hardtails can do everything for the most part, Full suspension is just useful for softening chunk and absorbing big drops, also to help with high speed control, but it is what it is, I have fun on the hardtail and the Devinci Kobain flicks around a little more like a BMX, although I'd like to try 27.5 wheels someday as the 29s still really make a bike feel absolutely massive compared the 20's I rode for 25 years. Hopefully Trek makes some good decisions and maybe getting them into a major retailer would be beneficial, at least to push out even more Marlins and maybe even Roscoes.
Amen brother. I'm a Merida fanboy myself and value for money is great with Merida.
There is only two reasons that they push those high end bikes so hard. They have the biggest profit margins and they have way too much stock.
Hit the nail on the head. Only cater to the high end buyer. Trek wasn’t nothing till Lance Armstrong put them on the map.
Glad to see you promote Polygon. They are great specd affordable bikes. I have a 21' D6 that I have slowly upgraded. I also ride a 22' Trek Marlin G2 that I have done small upgrades to. The Trek is a backup/ guest bike that is budget friendly if something breaks. I ride my D6 most often and love it. Come out to AZ. Great trails all over the state. Sedona MTB festival is going on this weekend as well
my first mtb was 1995 - I tried the stumpjumper M1 and the Kona hei-hei - both second hand for 1k - I bought the hei-hei. Only recently upgraded from 25 years ago to a canyon grizl but I still ride a kona explosif as a pub bike!
How many people got into bikes because of the Marlin? That bike is pretty close to a GOAT, going all the way back to the Gary Fisher days. Also, dude you look smooth on that pump track!
Great video, just like your others, & a super-interesting topic! When you look at a lot of MTB media, the focus is VERY much on the high-end aspects of the sport. Carbon fibre, electronics, high pivot rear suspension, & so on. A lot of innovations occur on more expensive bikes, so I think this is inevitable.
I think Trek are are a brand that 'wear many hats', so they both compete with the 'boutique' brands (Santa Cruz, Ibis, etc, etc), as well as the more entry-level area. But to be fair to them, they've dabbled in the high-end for a long time. I BELIEVE it was Trek who popularised the use of carbon fibre for framesets, way back when. I've owned a Trek Elite 9.8 (carbon xc hardtail) for over a decade, & it's been brilliant, & a pleasure to ride!
I have to agree. I bought a Marlin 7 Gen 2 because of your channel. It was my first bike shop MTB. Prior to that I always had the Walmart variety because I really didn't care. I just wanted something to ride. I had no idea MTB was such a global thing like road bikes are (Tour de France type stuff). This was just a year ago. I still have it but im thinking heavily about a Roscoe 8 as my primary hardtail. I also purchased an Orbea Occam H20 LT as my first FS bike. I wanted a Trek Fuel EX but the components/specs to price point just didn't make sense. Not going to pass up a Fox 36 PE for a Rockshox Recon with similar travel.
i grabbed a status 160 frame only kit for the same reason. can't beat the deal for a full sus frame. trek makes good bikes but they better start being competitive again in pricing
Yep..those Status frameset deals going on right now are hard to beat. I don't know of any other full suspension frameset that costs less right now unless you count the Chinese carbon frames on ebay.
Went to the Trek website - See a whole slew of Marlins. You make it sound like they no longer sell them. They are still available.
OH and I still love my Gary Fisher Tassajara.
I’m still riding a 2014 Trek 4300. 😀
I have A 2014 Trek Madone 5.2 that I bought used for $500 with Mercury carbon rims. I have a total of $1200 in it replacing all the bearings, chain, brake pads, new seat, handlebar tape, etc. Used treks are the way to go.
The price is what kept me away from Treks and the local dealer was not pleasant to deal with
They make the Marlin without the upgrade size features that way you have to sell it and buy upgrade once you get hooked. So if they can sell you the marlin they can pretty much sell you 2 bikes eventually. Once the average consumer wants to swap a fork or upgrade something. Best thing people can do before buying a bike is dont trust a shop employee and do your own research with whatever friend is getting you into the sport. Cannondale, Marin, Specialized. Look around. Marin has a cheap high performance hardtail(SanQuentin) Trek is like the snobby bike brand. the kid you want to beat up in school. Swap brands man.
To my understanding, the status is a mullet, can you do 29 front and rear?
Yes you can, you just have to change a few things I think.
I have been riding Trek bikes for years. Had two roadies and one hard tail MTB. Among my other rides, I like Trek for alot of reasons. But I must agree they are kind of pricey.
The majority of my bakes are from TREK not because of the components as that is replaceable and can get on any bike. I get Trek bikes for the styling and paint work and colors. I'm 48 and bike looks aesthetically right. I have a Marlin 7 due to the paint color but looking to get an x-caliber 8 for upgraded frame for and color. Actually I tried to selling my Marlin 7 twice but changed mind because the paint work looks so nice.
So true.
You should see my green 4500 bikes, and the cheap, dark grey 3700 I picked up used for the painting only❤
Also I ride the classical superfly 9.8 , upgraded with a boost fork
They have a lot of benefits inside, but some of their bikes are overrated.
Its up to the consumer finally to decide....
I hate to say it but just like some families always buy Chevrolet or Ford for decades, I mainly look at Trek for mountain bikes because my first mountain bike in 1996 was a Trek. For road bikes I almost always get Specialized for the same reason. Pretty dumb I know.
The big brands are losing out to Direct To Consumer bikes. Better features lower price.
The other thing people oare doing now (talking about other avinues for a good bike on a budget) 90's conversions very popular to do and quite affordable to do as well.
Peace Matty! I totally dig where you're coming from and your journey in baseball and mtb is very inspiring. If and whenever you visit NY my crew the Dirt Bomberz will welcome you with open arms my brother. We're a grouo a real guys that are on the same journey as you. You've even conversed with one of my guys, Moto Marv who's also a Trek loyalist. Be on the lookout for us in the TH-cam universe.
Super valid point. It sounds like they lost touch with their core audience. Great conversation!
I’m new to biking, and just bought a used Trek 6500 Alpha ZX (yellow) from an individual for $200, but can’t find much information about it. I’m guessing it’s late 90’s-early 2000’s? I’m just curious of others’ thoughts & opinions on this bike, or any manufacture information someone may have. Thanks!
I was going for a Haibike. But instead I bought my Trek Powerfly 5 on the reputation of build quality. And so far it’s been excellent. And it genuinely gets hammered daily for commuting in some of the worst road & weather conditions.
My first real good bike I bought was a 2012 sirrus Pro, and I still have the old girl. But now I have 3 Trek's. A domane sl 6 2022 a 2023 checkpoint alr 5 drift less and a trek farley 5 2022 witch I use as my mountain bike and I love all 3 of my treks and I love my old girl, my sirrus
My bike, Radimir Lenin, is a Marlin 5. I love it. However, I would like to hit actual MTB trails instead of rail to trail. I took it out to a "Dirt Church" event in Lawrence, Kansas, and the issue I had is the Marlin sucks in sand, where the trails in Lawrence had an abundance of. Looking at the Roscoe for my next hardtail so I can get the dropper post and bigger tires. Also dealing with the issue of having lost weight so my Fox shorts are too big and catch on the saddle.
I paid full retail price for my roscoe 9. A couple of months later they were on sale for $900 less than what I paid. I felt ripped off. If they can sell them for $900 off retail, how much profit are they really making?
Watching from the UK I get you completely. I've been thinking about a Domane SL5 and every year they add £300 to the price even when it went down to 1 isospeed. More money for less bike. I can't justify the price so now thinking about Ribble, even though am a Trek fan.
I find Trek's bikes, FS and hardtail have worse components for the same money or more compared to other brands. I just bought a Kona Process 134 for $1999+ tax (Canadian). It has Rockshox front shock and rear, with Shimano Deore drivetrain. I find other companies are giving consumers more value for their money compared to Trek
I’ve been watching the Marlin 6 for the last two years. We had a local bike shop that opened maybe 40 years ago. Most of their inventory has been Trek for the longest. Last year, Trek opened a factory retail bike store less than two miles from the bike shop. The shop had problems after C-19 when Trek started their big sale as the bike store had stock at regular price and the factory wouldn’t work with them. The new Trek store was underselling the local bike store and ended up putting them out of business. I’m not really happy about that as a small business owner. I wonder if that happened in other areas.
Those missing feature are probably to try to steer people to upgrade to something better and spend more.
I completely agree that there needs to be more focus on the regular person in bike marketing. Having ridden road, all mountain, and XC bikes for over 15 years from numerous brands, I must say that trek has one of the best price points in the market at all levels IMO. You cannot simply look at the component spec when determining the bike’s quality in comparison to price. The wheels, seat post, seat, hubs etc are all very important to the ride quality and toughness, but those are typically the areas where producers will cut corners (using cheap 3rd party parts) given that most people never pay attention to these areas. Trek uses bontregar (which is EXCELLENT) compared to what most other brands use for the same parts, and will also typically have better wheelsets stock on their bikes when compared to the equivalent models from other brands. Additionally, the manufacturing process is very expensive and complicated, but allows for better designs, stronger welds etc. This may not be obvious to a consumer, but the process influences overall quality and toughness a tremendous amount, but is also VERY expensive. For example, Trek’s entire Top Fuel lineup has integrated frame storage in both carbon and Aluminum. I may be wrong, but as of a year ago, no other producers had managed to build an aluminum full suspension frame with integrated storage because of the complicated manufacturing process required to mild aluminum tubes in the shapes required at a reasonable weight.
To summarize, I think you get what you pay for, and there is a lot of quality hidden in trek bikes beyond the drivetrain and brakes.
Love your videos FYI-keep em coming!
I started with a Roscoe 8. Now have a Roscoe 9 and trek dual sport 5. I love them both. I do want a full suspension and I’ve noticed how much more the trek full suspensions are compared to other brands with similar components. I’m had a couple issues with my bikes in the past and trek has offered unbelievable customer service. I’m debating on sticking with them for the customer service or take a chance on getting something half the price with similar component
The reason why the marlin sells so well is it's price. It's attainable to more people and the cool factor of it being Trek also helps. People view Trek due to Trek promoting and sponsoring pro athletes.
So why promote and advertise to the average consumer? Because they don't need to. It's selling already due to the points I just made.
Price point and reputation.
The Trek Marlin is the easiest to find Mountain bike for new riders. Of Bikes on OfferUp and Facebook marketplace place it’s by far the most common non-box store bike.
I started with a Walmart Ozark Trail bike that I slowly threw on upgrades for a better price than the Marlin 9 and I got to learn how to work on bikes! Those are the the only two reasons I didn’t get a Marlin when I started out.
I just recently went full boar and got a Revel Rascal 😅
Just wondering if you apply the same principles of low cost to the cars you buy. I am sure a 15 k new compact car can probably do the job for 90% of your travel needs, but spend a bit more and you will get more features/ comfort. Same applies to mountain bikes
The sad thing is that Trek is everywhere, pushing out other smaller brands I would much rather have around where I live. I also have a Trek Marlin (8) and looking to get a full sus but Trek (along with a few other brands) are soooo overpriced for there spec. Crazy comparing brands with same spec but very large price ranges.
Marlin platform is undergoing a running change to the geometry (Gen 3 comes with a slacker tube construction) and the technical features are rolling down to lower models. Interesting to see TREK sells just fine here in Canada, where they are a little more expensive...
Addendum: We sold 4 more Marlins this week. IT'S ONLY MID-MARCH
Such a chill point of view man, I'm the same way. I don't let my wallet speak for me, I let my riding speak for me.
I came across the 2021 Sombrio Shovel for 50 percent off, and other than the fork, it was am all around solid bike for the price. I used the money I saved and got a Marzocchi Bomber Z2 150mm fork and the thing shreds ! I spent about 1300 on it with some big upgrades, and it competes against bikes far more expensive than mine.
The bike community is so easily fooled into overspending and overbiking, when you can spend your money reasonably and enjoy it for far cheaper
I love my T7 and got the XL weight down from 38lbs to 34lbs without swapping out the wheels yet
Best hardtails for mountain/trail use hands down are the Rocky Mountain Growler, there is no competition.
Same story with road bikes. These brands need to remember it's about bringing more people into the sport instead of gatekeeping. I admit I do have a high end bike but it all started on a used piece of junk, and honestly sometimes I had more fun on the old bikes.
I believe that even though the Marlin is the highest selling mountain bike that trek sales, I believe that the higher price bikes are the ones that make the most money even though their sales aren’t high. The $4000 price tag or better makes them more money than the $1000 bike. You have to sell four $1000 bikes to equal one $4000 bike. if you catch my drift.